Guild Wars 2

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBLhZ6kGRozGsyGwvGg/GsgLYQXtAwCIarNB+AxXxu4YE-TphHABlt/Q/lBG7BAAwJAYgDBgAHBAA

Been playing Necro and enjoying it a ton. Was at mid gold tier before I came home for break. Only solo q. It’s tough but I’m enjoying the boon corruption. I realize Terror is considered trash by a lot of people but with the amount of might and vulnerability this build supplies, I’ve seen terror pulse for around 1.6k often. 2 initial sources of fear but with pulsing stability out there, I like the signet version of corruption as I get multiple rounds of messing with warriors, rangers and eles. Sigil of generosity is mostly for the burn guards and random passive plague signet procs. I often use chilled to the bone for more offensive stability on a shorter CD but if there are too many DH/DD I use plague form. The instant stability can be necessary to escape longbow 5 and dragon’s maw if you get stuck in the them. With this, proper positioning and flesh wurm (and half decent teammates), you can survive a lot of focus fire.

Stability —> fear (terror) and chill (which bleeds and applies vulnerability)
Resistance —> Chill (which bleeds and applies vulnerability)
Regen —> poisons and prevents druid astral force build up

Once a warrior pops the stances, they are done for as you chain the signets together to perpetually fear then RS 5/4 them. Very rarely lose to a warrior in a 1v1 and they die fast.

Tempests are often easy to kill. If they have stability on overload traited, corrupt it. If they don’t, fear or wh4 them. Once they try to earth overload, corrupt that to terror.

PI thieves are one main problem I have. RS 2/3 help. Being able to proc both weapon swap sigil sets (and enfeeble) quickly with RS then weapon swap can be a lot of instant cast burst that thieves can’t interrupt. Spam stow weapon to confuse the thief so that they waste their initiative (it looks like you are casting but you are not).

Other main problem class is DH. ALWAYS have WH5 up if possible. This is essential for removing blinds. Have the flesh wurm and plague form ready to disengage. WH4 to interrupt through blocks (also for chrono shield 4). This doesn’t work on F3 if they have traited stability. Requires a teammate to flank to corrupt it. Use Signet of locust to corrupt the aoe stability the DH just gave to his team to give terror, chill, bleed and vuln to everyone else there. This also works when a scrapper/gyro is ressing. Then just corrupt, dodge and auto attack.

Flesh wurm does not save you from DD and DH kitten but it can force a 1v1 as they teleport after you.

Justine.6351:

Don’t go to point first, even if your teammates are cowering behind you, don’t do it. I cant tell ya how many times I’m forced to get onto the point first to be completely abandoned by my teammates. Don’t go on point first. Oh ya and don’t go on point first. This is the key to not going 100-0 in 3 sec. And watch out for that spear of justice a drooling DH is waiting to shoot you with.

Ithilwen.1529:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Windwalker.7421:

MailMail.6534:

Clones dying from cleave and AOE is called counter play. Penalizing people for getting rid of our clones would get rid of this counter play. Listen to the Boss Ross.

And why would an option to trait in a way to counter this counter play, especially on a trickster class, be a bad thing? Sounds like a good option if it leads to more build diversity and more skillful counter-play required by those facing Mesmers, because they can’t just mindlessly AoE illusions like now. I fail to see how more horizontal options in traiting are ever a bad idea.

There are lots of counter-play to counter-play scenarios, this is usually considered a good thing for both build and play diversity. It’s just too simplistic to have a single easily accomplished method of completely shutting down a fundamental profession mechanic such as our Shatters is. Giving an option to keep our opponents on their toes when they mindlessly spam AE is IMO an enrichment to skillful PvP play.

Making Illusions or especially Phantasms more survivable is another route, but these are mutually exclusive and completely different play-styles. We already have traits and a Signet to accomplish that, but clearly even if you specialize in all of the current options, not even our Phantasms turn out to be really any more survivable than without these options. So yes, those options should also be significant improved to have a much more noticeable impact, in order to provide another option.

That does not exclude making other useful traits to discourage the killing of especially Phantasms. Those two trait options would in fact be mutually exclusive by their very nature.

The problem is that there is no skill involved. It’s all just mindless spam. Enemies mindlessly spam their aoe/cleave. Clones die at random, spewing random condi’s in their own AoE fields. You then mindlessly spawn more clones without an iota of skill to repeat the process ad-nausea. Then the other guy mindlessly spams condi cleanses, starts his mindless invuln/evade/block chain, and mindlessly spams some more pressure skills etc etc etc.

The game is oodles and oodles of mindlessness at this point. Adding more spamming mindless options is just adding more mindless spam to an already mindlessly spamming spam fest XD

Spam.

One of my central ideas is that if mindless cleaving of clones were punished, as it once was, there would be less mindless spam.

The vast majority of skills in the game are aoe. It’s not inherently mindless just because you use aoe. If I can’t turn off the aoe, then there is little decision to make if I fight a clone death build. I keep using my aoe and grit my teeth/ use utilities to deal with the passive clone death as infinite clones keep spawning.

Better to introduce active defense to clones. Example: every time you use a manipulation skill, clones also gain reflect. Our mechanic should be to keep them alive before we shatter, not let them die.

Going to just drop this link off here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Imagined-Burden-Rework/first#post6235865

Slightly more comprehensive rework to domination:
Top row dedicated to boon strip playstyle:
1) Replace rending shatters: When you strip boons, clear a condition on self.
2) Boon strip on shatter (nothing change here)
3) New Imagined Burden: Do damage when you strip boons. Shorter CD on GS skills.

Bottom row dedicated to interrupts:
1) Confounding suggestions: Remains the same
2) Furious interruption: Change to heal on interrupt
3) Powerblock: Remains the same

Middle row:
Remains the PvE Signet and illusion damage row. Mental anguish stays as is.

Top row: Sustain power shatter mesmer! Like illusions/inspiration condi chrono, all power shatters now remove conditions and do damage if you land them on an enemy with boons. Sword auto, GS3, disenchanter and null field all benefit too. Can also go top top bottom to diversify damage but keep the condi clear. Would still synergize with illusions very well for shatter spam but less sustain than condi chrono as it won’t bring inspiration. That’s fair as condi builds tend to require more sustain while their conditions tick.

Bottom row: Sustained interrupter. Weaker to condition compared to top row but heals and does damage on interrupt. Possible to go top, bottom, bottom to still bring condi clear on boon strip but will only benefit GS3, Sword auto etc. instead of shatters.

Both of those reworks, if there is no ICD lets these builds scale up which Mesmers need. Illusions die so fast in larger fights which makes mesmers weaker as fights grow larger. These traits allow for healing and condi clear to increase as you fight more people.

Decided to look at raw numbers as I never did check after the 40% buff to axe auto.
Axe auto: 0.79 coeff/second
Traited axe auto: 0.86 coeff/second
Sword auto: 1.07 coeff/second

Sword cleaves 3 targets and axe is a bouncing 2 target. If there are 3 targets and you pull them together with axe 4, sword auto wins by a decent amount. However, let’s look at the big picture:

Axe 4 is ~2.7 coeff/second for the dmg/cast time.
Axe 5 is ~1.7 coeff/second for the dmg/cast time.

Assumed a bit of after cast. That’s why you quick draw axe 4. It’s also why sword is power and axe is condi actually sounds kind of naive after the 40% axe auto buff. They both kind of suck compared to your burst. If you are full zerker and using the axe trait, the 250 ferocity also buffs the off-hand axe as well as main-hand axe by ~7.5%. Furthermore, if you don’t have a PS warrior stacking crazy might on you, Axe auto is 6 or 12 might on 1 or 2 targets which is another 7 or 14% buff to axe auto but also axe 4/5. More boon duration and this makes a bigger difference. Sword auto is ~2 might to your pet >_>.

Then again, full zerker druids bring marksmanship and skirmishing since they are better than beast master for damage. If you drop druid and are just open world/casual grouping, axe is (as weird as it is to say this) better than sword.

TLDR: Your friend is used to the old meta balance patches. In meta groups sword>axe auto as it does about 35% more dps. It used to be 56%. While it’s only a small portion of your overall DPS rotation, it’s still important for meta comps.

In casual stuff, axe (especially if you have a bit of boon duration) is probably better than sword as it comes with 14-21% (or more with boon duration) bonus damage to itself and your heavy hitters which makes that 35% auto difference insignificant.

I clearly overestimated the slow on trap instead of daze and buffs to condi rev. That being said,

Curunen.8729:

One problem now is due to needing healing power for RI, the poor selection of amulets in pvp is even more apparent.

I’ve sadly had to drop Viper in pvp for Sage amulet (still using Viper in wvw thankfully because it works there) as Viper in pvp is just pure suicide right now.

It’s almost like I’m being encouraged to bunker up rather than play more offensive with hybrid stats…

Would be nice to see a jewel system brought back to the amulets so I could spec Viper amulet with Sage jewel or something.

Some quick math though if you want to keep inspiration but not a healing power amulet:
PvE/WvW healing with 3 illusions: 1,448 (0.2). 36% loss is a 521 healing loss. The 285% increase to 0.2 means 0.57. With inspiration giving 300 healing power, that’s an extra 111 healing compared to before. The extra 175 healing power from a rune is also an extra 100 healing to a 0-3 illusion shatter. Doesn’t make up in full for the 521 loss but it might be enough for you. Now let’s look at bonus effects.

Rune of the grove creates an entangle effect every 90 seconds and has bonus protection. Damage reduction and the wtf surprise factor could work. Rune of water and flock both give bonus 755 (0.5) healing in a 600 radius when you use #6. Some nice team support. Water also has bonus condi clear while flock has a bonus bird attack that blinds. Rune of the guardian is 175 toughness, 100 healing power and 1.4 seconds of burn on block with that viper amulet. No ICD. If your condi clear fine, the 175 toughness is ~9% damage reduction which also means less healing power required.

So condi rune + sage amulet vs healing rune + the viper amulet you like. I personally think the condi duration heavily outweighs the condi damage when it comes to raw stats. It depends on which tier/MMR you are in but personally, I think you should try rune of the guardian. It’s a “jewels” worth of healing power and toughness. At low tiers most people just spam attacks. At higher tiers I’ve noticed ppl will still attack but then dodge the illusion summon. 400 bonus damage for every single one of those block is nothing to scoff at. Possibly bring scepter for more block and illusion spam.

I disagree that all of one type of trait should be in 1 line. Mantras are not the only thing that have traits in only 1 line. Let’s look at a few examples:
1) Domination has the signet trait. Inspiration shares distortion and has a Signet of Illusion proc which is affected by domination. Illusions gives reflect on distortion.
2) Speaking of illusions, it has a 20% CD on all illusions which combos with all the listed weapon CD traits.
3) As mentioned torch and stealth is actually in 3 lines (if you count desperate decoy).
4) Interrupt traits are in 4 trait lines and every weapon combo aside from X/torch has interrupts.
5) Blinds are all over the place trait and weapon wise although some of these (blind on chaos armor and blind on glamour) have been removed over time.

HM is about 3 charges (you channel less often) and a damage bonus when you use the skill. In a way it’s a 50% buff to mantras and then an additional bonus damage. That’s comparable to what most weapon or utility traits give. Mantra most likely to be used with this: MoD for the daze in PvP.

RM is about charging often (you don’t want 3 charges because that’s less spam of channels). Like HM, it’s worthy of a trait slot and can stand on it’s own. Mantra most likely to be used with this: Spam MoP (the “dps” mantra) for AOE heals. Most other mantras are not spammed in combat for the healing but charged prior to fights. Furthermore, I’m 100% ok with inspiration being our only AOE healing line.

Both of these stand alone as good enough to be a trait. Some might disagree but I think the real issue is that mantras need a rework. These traits are GOOD. They also don’t synergize with each other nor are they often used in the same situation. Therefore, I don’t see an inherent problem with them being in different lines.

Granted, there is the issue that Dueling or other lines could use sustain. I still don’t think it fits. Dueling is not an aoe healing line. Dueling is a dodge, crit, interrupt, active defense line. If dueling/domination needs sustain, they need new traits. Examples: Heal on interrupt or clear conditions on yourself when you remove a boon for enemies

Reduce the damage of phantasms by a LOT. Like put them all at clone levels of damage BUT make them more utility. Sword phantasm has a 1/4 second daze per attack (also is a leap finisher still). Focus phantasm is good as is for reflects (and still does whirls). Torch phantasm should remove conditions at a baseline. GS phantasm could remove boons on enemies that it hits. Staff 3 would need a rework to what it would do. Shield phantasm does the alacrity/slow as usual. Pistol phantasm keeps the rapid projectile finisher combo and bleed traits.

Buff the damage of mesmer (mostly auto attack buffs and power only). I’m ok with most of the traits as is. Chrono gets new set F1-F4 (like reaper or DH) instead of an additional F5. New elite spec gives a condi based cleave weapon or an interrupt main hand. Fix break bars to work with interrupt traits.

If those changes went through I’m ok keeping illusions functioning as is. Don’t need to have them survive or swap targets. Use them kittenter fodder with higher utility than clones. Condi has a higher DPS but longer ramp up time with getting 3 phantasms up. New elite spec gives some mistrust/condi cleave weapon. Power has better sustain while spike potential shatters remain mostly the same. Having new F1-F4 for Chrono makes it possible to balance with base mesmer. Interrupt traits can be used in PvP and PvE.

Windwalker.7421:

Well that was pretty fun!

It wasn’t as bad as I expected. Sages actually has a solid impact on RI now and also does pretty well on Mirror. With 660 HP I was getting ~1500 health back on a 3x shatter, and about 900 on a no illusion shatter. That’s a lot better than what people were saying, that you’d need 900 HP to equal the old RI. (4800+ on Mirror)

So Sages is actually working out pretty well, and I imagine the standard meta build is still doing fine as well.

Well… inspiration does give you 100 healing power per clone you have. So 600+300 is going to be the 900 breaking point ish. And as you mentioned, the extra healing power does benefit all the other healing skills your build brings.

skcamow.3527:

I will also say that, while everyone can play what they want, the most optimal build is with inspiration. The higher the tier of play, this becomes much more magnified regardless of how well one can kite/avoid damage.

Just my 2 cents as usual …

As someone that also plays DD build that brings PI on interrupt instead of condi clear on evade and Bound instead of the unhindered dodge, I can’t inherently agree to the idea that inspiration is required at the highest tier. I"m not saying I played it at the highest tier but I found it much better than the DD that played it safe because the damage was enough to win fights fast. Condi clear was from runes, a sigil and utilities. Inspiration was optimal for a bunker meta. If this new meta is glassier in general, preventing damage and doing more damage is going to be better than repairing the damage.

As usual, need to keep the full picture in mind instead of just a single trait nerf.

Even Dueling for AE Blinds on Shatter, Mistrust, or maybe 3x on Cleanse Mantra. (Or DE simply for more illusions to shatter) A bit more offensive option, especially with Mistrust. (Multiple AE interrupts are available after all.)

This ^. Swap inspiration to Dueling. By dropping inspiration, will Signet of Illusions to refresh shatters be mandatory? No. Blink, portal and either bring null field or disenchanter instead. Don’t try to recover the healing by using a healing power amulet. Use the new amulet which has condi dmg, duration and crits for bleeds on crits in Dueling. Vitality for a bit of staying power. More importantly crit for vigor and learn to dodge. Regardless of which build, use Rune of nightmare/scavenger for more condi clear/sustain. Possibly sigil of generosity. WoE is of course still there.
2 variants:
1) Sword/Torch+Staff: DE to make up the loss of illusion spam. Since you only have 1 phantasm, swap PoM to the Pledge for condi clear on torch skills. Shield 4 not applying slow also means that confusion is going to proc more. Use blind on shatter. Blind from torch 4. Blind from rune of the nightmare (and condi clear). Swap to ineptitude for more confusion and blind. Torch 4, 5 are also just decent burns to diversify conditions damage a bit. Possibly mass invis to help with prestige CD and setting up spikes. Sigil of energy for even more DE.
2) Sword/Shield+Staff Mistrust: Shield 5 and mistrust go hand in hand. Keep MoF for aoe F3 for more mistrust. Well of Gravity for more mistrust. Keep PoM. Because PoM is kept, disenchanter is probably prefered over null field. Use Evasive Mirror or Blinding Dissipation or even trait for shorter sword CD for more defense.

Why Evasive Mirror? When it’s used correctly it’s basically perma reflect all the time. With Vigor and sword 2, you can proc it almost always. Why does perma reflect matter? The new rune and amulet are also going to be buffing various condi builds in general. Condi DD, engineer and ranger come to mind and all of those have projectiles. Even DD condi dodge is projectiles. Reflect warrior longbow (except F1) means they can’t condi pressure Mesmers from range. Reflect condi projectiles also means more condi pressure from the chrono. Power and condi guard use a lot of projectiles too. Power Rev Shiro heal and sword 2 are also reflectable. Power rev is also getting hit really hard on two of their strong bursts. DH no longer has an unblockable daze on Test of Faith because Piercing Light now slows instead of dazes. The infamous D/P DD that counters Mesmer has projectiles on p4 for PI procs which can be reflected to proc mistrust. Or just blind them with shatters when they stealth.

So do we really need to complain about sustain nerf from Inspiration with how much of a shift in the meta will happen? Maybe. Condi Rev is getting buffed as Mallyx gets a stun break and also isn’t projectile based. Shiro/Mallyx is slow but the new rune takes care of that. This is what I would be afraid of. No projectiles and cant blind because of high resistance uptime. However, I did recommend dropping SoI for Null field or Disenchanter. Will also make us better off when fighting Warriors by stripping resistance and stability. While we may counter the Condi rev, there is also another huge aspect going into this. Condi rev is really good at tearing through boons and doesn’t require a babysitter like Necro. S/D DD is getting buffed and can also counter boons. So countering the boon heavy builds out there is going to further shift the meta and there is going to be less sustain in general.

TLDR: Lots of changes to meta incoming. Especially the new rune and amulet are bringing a new meta. Dueling active defense and damage is going to be the way to go. Don’t fret about the inspiration nerf.

Been really getting into ranger/druid recently and have 3 sets of fotm/raid gear for my Ranger/Druid: Berserker, Zealot and Viper. I swap between them depending on what I feel like that day, the team and the daily fractals themselves. Drop beastmaster from the condi ranger for a condi druid. Never found nature magic worth it outside of healing for raid runs (or PvP) and still requires druid first.

In t4 fotm, Druid is worth it for the traited glyphs alone. They are aoe blinds, heals, condi clears and 1 is an aoe stun. For trash mobs they are amazing utility before factoring in any group buffs they also provide. Especially with the instabilities like poison trails and random conditions, it’s super important to hold enemies still to prevent the poison trails, keep enemies grouped for easier cleave, prevent allies from taking damage to begin with (blind and CC) and clearing the painful conditions the instabilities can apply (condi clear).

The buffs are nice but if you are chasing ppl down to buff them, it’s not worth because they aren’t worth the buffs, you are wasting too much of your time, the mobs are now moving a lot more and CA1/2 are too small of an AOE to heal moving targets. The only CA heals that are really worth it are 3/4. CA-3 is the only one I use to ranged heal then they are out of luck if they don’t stay near me.

When I get teammates that don’t dodge and love to kite, I actually swap to ancient seeds regardless of which gear I currently have equipped. (CA5 and entangle can further help here.) My teammates won’t be getting gotl stacks from glyphs and CA4 anyways so I might as well hold enemies still. Gotl is still better for bosses with breakbars. Spotter, glyph of empowerment and spirits have a large enough radius that they are still worth it even if your teammates move too much.

I like condi druid in fotm but I tend to prefer power druid. That’s not the say viper druid is bad or low support but I find power to be even better support although slightly less damage. Off-hand axe is a really nice pull. Combined with longbow 4, when used correctly, you can really control trash mob placement. Furthermore, I can swap longbow to staff to gain healing, and more projectile defense. Make sure to quick draw axe 5 and staff 5 for max projectile defense. Technically a condi druid can do this too but staff and off-hand axe don’t do condi damage. If you have a guardian, condi druid is better but power druid can sub in for a guard.

First two builds look fine for the most part. I too think that the 3rd build isn’t right but for different reasons than Fay.

Condi Druid does around 22k DPS realistic buffs. Buff chrono does around a lot less than that. Basically druid going viper to magi is much greater DPS loss for the team than a chrono going commander & zerker to minstrel & cleric. Also 1) some druids are noobs 2) some teammates are noobs and like to not stack which makes druid heals weaker 3) some fights can be hard which forces the above to become more of an issue. Strong regen can help a lot here. You have 500 bonus healing power (300 from healing prism and 200 for a PS warrior) at baseline. Furthermore, Illusionary inspiration is 6 stacks of regen when the cap is 5 so it’s not worth it for druids to bring. So I get the investment in healing but the build itself isn’t optimized.

If you personally are taking too much damage:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Plate_of_Mussels_Gnashblade
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Herald
10% damage reduction with 15% boon duration food
15% boon duration, 175 toughness and aoe protection: 33% damage reduction
If you don’t feel like changing runes: WoE isn’t needed since multiple shield phantasms + other wells is plenty of AoE alacrity. SotE can recharge your block and is 1200 healing per 3 seconds since you stacked a ton of healing power.

If your team is taking too much damage and/or your druid is zerker/viper:
At 1975 healing power, regeneration = 377 (414) per second. Sigil of water is also a nice 666 (732) heal every 5 seconds. Rune of the monk basically adds a bonus 60 health per second to your whole team. Furthermore the passive 4 bonus is 3.2k heal every 15 seconds when you get HIT which is better than the 2k heal from rune of water every 22 seconds if you spam WoE. Regardless, rune of the herald is still better than a bit of bonus healing if your druid isn’t providing protection via Stone spirit.

Windwalker.7421:

Unfortunately, Anet has been handing Resistance out like candy and stupid crap like this happens. Watching a guy be 100% immune to all conditions for several minute long fights is plain silly…not to even mention the out of control condition cleansing and ludicrous healing on top. Clearly that is a strong reason to forego even running Condition builds in WvW.

Now I realize you guys are anything but average skill level, and it’s fun to watch, and it’s not meant to trivialize that fact…but this looks like a far cry from a balanced game mode.

Build looks interesting, but I was missing the flare of the old Immortal Build…letting idiots kill themselves was just too much fun! :-)

The previous and current builds look similar at first glance but are very different. The old team comp had chronos sharing some really long boon duration. If that chrono went down, the team still had plenty of resistance for a long time. The current one is consistent short duration boons spammed. While that might not seem important at first glance, keep in mind that it still requires skilled players in organized groups. It should also require skilled players in organized groups.

Unlike the old necro meta which uses well of corruption to only corrupt 1 boon per second on 5 people, a new meta needs 2-3 necros to all focus corrupt boon (3x corrupted boons, unblockable, 1200 range and 10 second CD) on the chrono or herald. Chrono because it needs to constantly cast SoI to keep boons up on the group or the Herald because it pulls all the conditions from its allies to itself when it provides aoe resistance. Corrupt the chrono and boon uptime for the whole group goes down a ton. Corrupt the herald and it explodes from 15+ burning stacks and whatever else your 2-3 necros toss at it. Then the necros epidemic to a group that no longer has resistance. The game is much more balanced right now than you think it is.

I too also expected something a bit more similar to the build’s namesake.

A long time ago there was a build coined the “immortal mesmer” that summoned a phantasmal defender and 2 other illusions with retaliation. With that setup, every hit would hit 7 times with retaliation. It was nerfed heavily since phantasms don’t have perma retaliation anymore and retal was nerfed. I haven’t thought of it in a while but does persisting illusions proc when CP creates a new phantasm? This would somewhat revert the nerf to retaliation uptime on phantasms.

If the retal is working for you and you want to focus it, I would recommend Domination, Inspiration, Chrono. Functionally it plays similar to condi shatter but has the ability to strip boons on shatter with bonus retaliation. Tough choice between SoI proc or pDefender proc from the inspiration GM traits but I would pick the defender for this build.

Blasting light fields is only 3 seconds of retal but they updated leaps to give the light aura which stacks retal better if enemies keep hitting you. Sword/Focus for a leap and light field. Staff 2 for another leap. Well heal is another light field. Sword 3 and 5 is a leap for the mesmer and illusion. Shield is great for 2 phantasms and a block but I think this actually goes against your retal. You want enemies to attack fast before they know what hit them (slow is bad) and you want them to hit you, not block. Granted, they can still hit the illusions while you block.

Rune of radiance gives you some much needed vitality and light aura/retal on heal. Signet of illusions is just like the condi shatter but the bonus health to illusions matters more here since you want them to get hit and proc retal a bit. Possibly drop portal for another defender in solo q. Undecided on amulet and sigils but it needs power, sustain and/or boon duration.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAsdWncfClph1qBeoBEgiFVjiMAKgd68JWioruZj2qF-TpQ7gAA7PYWGAA

I very much agree with the above disclaimer for pure staff builds.

With that being said, one other piece of advice I would give you is equip 2 staves. Both with sigil of geomancy and both with sigil of mischief. Unless you slot Mistrust (Dueling GM trait) and are able to interrupt (break bar will screw you over), you have almost no AOE condi pressure. You probably want DE for your GM trait anyways. Those two sigils (and confusion from blind with ineptitude) give you some much needed AOE and damage. Think of it as an insta cast 10 second CD skill that gives you 3 stacks of bleeds, blind and confusion that hits 4-5 targets. Once you get more shatter spam with Chrono, your AOE condi potential will increase a bit but it’s still not great.

OriOri.8724:

rabidsmiles.5926:

It won’t matter if our damage is on par with a tempest, a group will still prefer us to go chrono for the two buffs and pick up a temptest/other dps. Alacrity and Quickness are the new drugs of PvE and we are the dealers…unless the new one comes with them or another profession’s new spec can take them from us, it seems they’ve locked the mesmer into this one.

What I said was that if our damage was on par with tempests then people would make room for both a chrono and a Mirage if they were competent. I never said mirage would replace chrono in the lineup.

I find this thinking a bit too selfish in the idea that no other class will ever be able to provide worthwhile amounts of quickness (and alacrity) to ever replace the Chrono because Mesmer shouldn’t be able to replace the DPS if a DPS can’t replace the Mesmer. Basically a lot of people are complaining about raid diversity being dead. The next round of elite specs ideally would fix that problem, not make it 1 chrono 2 mirage per subgroup.

Ideally, raid groups should be 1 grace of the land/healer, 1 might/buff and 1 quickness/utility bot per group with 2 DPS and I think it should stay that way for easier balance. Currently the classes to fill those roles are super obvious. If the new elite specs bring more unique buffs, raid comps will just be 5 buffers no pure DPS in the future. In order to prevent that, unique buffs cant be so unique. Quickness needs to not just be a chrono thing. Grace of the land etc can’t be just a Druid thing, it has to be a healer elite spec thing.

One of the reasons I was really pushing for Rune of the Chrono to be AOE quickness when they mentioned nerfing SoI is that it also buffs Necromancers. Power Necro is weak DPS. Well spam necro provides regen, protection and vampiric aura to allies and other support. Those runes, if AOE, would make a decent quickness support out of necro. Maybe the new necro elite spec gets aoe quickness with an elite skill. It wouldn’t bring alacrity and distortion share BUT it does more damage than power chrono and is easier to play. We now have build diversity in that each subgroup has the option of bringing two kinds of quickness support.

I do want mesmer to be able to do DPS but it doesn’t seem fair for them to be able to if something like this doesn’t happen.

2) I have a feeling there is a programing problem that prevents that from happening easily. I would prefer them to work as interrupts but if not, it would be better to make most traits work on CC instead of on interrupt for PvE only.

5) Rather keep the functionality same across all game modes and have it reverted to the old beta functionality. Your teammates attack are unblockable while standing in the well. It’s a coordinated bunker buster for PvP/WvW. That annoying dredge shock shield and what not could be negated in PvE with careful timing by the Chrono.

7) Don’t delete the ICD. With regen and vampiric aura, it was stupidly strong healing. However the ICD makes it suffer the same problem the guardian signet elite has. Even with a 500% buff it would be too little not often enough. I would prefer it to increase outgoing healing by a 10% bonus.

8) Same as scepter auto, I can get behind this.

1, 3 and 9)
TW overwriting itself is not the main problem. Double SoI, Well of Action and Shield 5 is 5 stacks (and they are all more than 1 second base) that prevents TW from doing anything. Changing TW to 2 seconds every 2 seconds will barely change this. Basically TW would overwrite shield 5 and only add 2 seconds of quickness every F5. Not worth the cast time and elite slot. Something as simple as changing shield 5 to be 3 seconds of quickness base going out and nothing on its way back would make TW more viable because our non-TW skills would now hit 4 instead of 5 stacks on your allies. This would then allow for the 2/2 to make a difference.

SoI doesn’t need a buff. It’s already our strongest quickness sharing skills. Then it shares a ton of other boons. I actually think it needs a bit of a nerf in other boons shared but then let it also share boons to phantasms too. I do like that minor trait in dueling. Ideally allow 2 different ways to share boons to phantasms.

I don’t get it. You mention a few times that you are maximizing healing and don’t care for buffing allies but then bring frost and fire spirit. There is being unique for the sake of being unique (wanting full spirits) and then there is being a selfish healer and not actually maximizing healing.

Swap wilderness survival to skirmishing. Equip two staves and grab the staff trait. Quick draw for CA3/4 or staff 3/5 is much better for your healing compared to a 100% selfish wilderness survival. This is regardless of if you stay full spirits or not.

If you want to further maximize healing, drop the frost and fire spirit and bring 2 traited glyphs. They clear condi in an AOE (not selfish like wilderness survival), blind (prevent damage from everyone), heal and potentially stun break (in an AOE). If you seriously need another stun break or condi clear, bring protect me for another AOE team stun break and a brown bear…. yup I said it. It clears 2 condis AOE. Notice how I keep saying AOE instead of a personal stun break or condi clear from wilderness survival.

So it’s been a long time since I’ve played WoW so I just want to make sure we’re on the same page. Back then it didn’t matter what weapon I picked on my Paladin besides 1 handed+shield or 2 handed. Furthermore, 1 or 2 tank skills were locked behind a tank line and restricted to the tank weapon. (Similar situation with DPS and healing etc.)

Are you basically suggesting that instead of Dueling, we have “tank traitline”. Without tank traitline, you can equip a sword but you can’t use blurred frenzy. Instead of Domination, we have “DPS traitline”. Without DPS traitline, you can’t summon phantasms?

I realize you mentioned inspiration vs glamours but that won’t work. PvE still uses feedback, TW and portal when necessary. PvP uses null field and portal. WvW uses veil and portal. That won’t be a PvP line. It’ll be a diversity killing line because rarely does any build bring all of one utility type.

If I fully understand you now. I’m still going to have to disagree because that’s not the game I want. I realize there are a lot of “non-viable” builds but I do like messing with them a lot too.

“In that light I do think that it needs to be updated considering it is grandmaster tier and has to compete MoF and MS.

Or rather, instead of the trait needing to be updated, the synergy that our other skills had with it that was removed needs to be partially restored."

Yeah I was rambling a bit but all the "if"s are because I would prefer option two.

Carighan.6758:

Electro.4173:

However, I don’t think Ineptitude vs Malicious Sorcery is a good example of such a choice. Because Malicious Sorcery is basically mandatory when using Scepter and useless otherwise.

Oh, agree. Sorry, I worded my post badly. I like the part where for a scepter user, you’d essentially want both.

This “I want both, cannot have, pick one” is the design goal, but it’s not consistently applied, as you said, it’s not even stable in that choice because one is a scepter only talent.

Though while walking to the metro this morning I figured the best way to fix these trait choices – IMO – is to flat out remove them. We have genuinely too many character loadout/setup choices right now, and trait picks are an easy target for something which could be used for class balance if they didn’t exist and power condensed into picking 3 out of 6 possible traitlines. Or just called “traits” then.

So you can sort of pick the 3 focus areas of your character, but what each entails is set up by the devs, allowing more complex balancing changes than the rigid “3 minor + 3 picks of 3 each” setups we have now.

This is not the best way to fix it. It kills diversity. I realize that some traits look lack luster but in a game with 3 main modes and a bunch of further niches within each node, only being able to pick 3 trait lines with no further diversity would be dull to say the least.
———————————————————-
To the general assessment of the trait, I get that ineptitude is “weak” but that’s not because of the trait in and of itself. We used to have glamours that blind. That was AOE confusion. Chaos armor used to blind too which would turn into more confusion with this trait. Dueling is out of the meta but it still blinds on shatter which does synergize with this trait.

If there ever is a future elite spec that grants similar levels of sustain of inspiration, condi builds could go dueling/illusions/new elite spec as a “blind spam” confusion build. If the future leaked elite spec that has “blurr” has a trait that “blinds on blurr” ineptitude is fine.

If well of precog was changed to blind per pulse it would mesh with mesmer theme better and ineptitude.

If a new elite spec ever gives us a smoke field that pulses blinds that’s aoe damage. Furthermore, wardens and duelists shooting through those smoke fields will proc a ton of blind and therefore confusion too.

Also if it was to be changed to work with a weapon trait, I would prefer it to be changed for the torch: Every time you blind an enemy, reduce torch CD by 0.5 seconds. Torch skills remove conditions. 0.5 seconds might not seem like a lot but aoe blind could reduce it by 2.5 seconds per blind. Bring ineptitude to further reduce CD while synergizing with a weapon that aoe blinds (torch 4) to promote more active play instead of stealth spam. Scepter 2 does blind as well but it’s lackluster compared to the counter.

At the end of the day, it is a trait that negates 1 enemy attack every 10 seconds on top of the damage it does. It’s not meta but that doesn’t make it so terrible that it should be deleted.

If they want to keep short duration buffs, they should all be raw stats. Like 4% increase to all base stats.

Shadowstep.6049:

Fay.2357:

Shadowstep.6049:

They should just remove alacrity from mes. Suddenly more classes are viable.

Genius!

Well, why do you bring mes? For CD recharge and quickness. Limit those – 2 mes per raid is not mandatory anymore. They bring so much atm – you have to have a mes this causes too much class limitation for raid groups.

2 Druid and 2 PS mandatory in both subgroups and that’s not a problem. Nerfing quickness is what made 2 chronos required. Suddenly 2 chronos and nerf alacrity is the right response… Really? If alacrity is nerfed again, the new comps will be 3 ele +druid/PS per group. That’s not the diversity increase you think will happen.

The real way to increase diversity is actually to buff alacrity. It sounds crazy but there is an important next step, buff quickness on another class enough to compete with Chrono quickness. Example, buff Rune of Chrono to be AOE 3 seconds of quickness. Necromancers can now provide 80% AOE quickness if they really want to. (I’m not saying this specific buff as it would turbo charge chrono but just an example of maximum diversity increase)

Likewise, herald needs an aura to buff condi duration and condi damage. Then it’s a choice between two might generators (PS or Herald) which buff power (banner/EP) or condi (new aura)

So what happens is that a group that doesn’t need DPS from CD skills would go with Necro quickness since Necro has better DPS than Chrono. CD based classes go in the Chrono subgroup.

Then you look at if the DPS classes are mostly condi or power. PS goes to the power group while Rev gives might and buffs to the condi group.

Fay.2357:

Xyonon.3987:

In my opinion minmaxing as Chrono is more important than ever, now that you got 2 of them in each party.

While there’s obviously nothing wrong with min-maxing on any class, chrono is objectively the least important class in the game to min-max on. Since chrono has the lowest direct damage contribution in any group (not counting damage due to buffs, just pure dps here), min-maxing on a chrono will have a far smaller effect than min-maxing on any other class.

Min-maxing a chrono might squeeze out an additional 1-3k dps in total while min-maxing a rotation on say, an ele, could easily affect damage in the 6-8k range if they’re really having trouble.

I’ve been thinking about this myself. It’s the reason we often tank right? However, it’s been druids that heal. Given the nerf to healing power on celestial avatar and given the buff to druid condi DPS with the shortbow buffs, I still can’t help but think we haven’t optimized enough on Chrono. Not for DPS but for healing/boons. The nerf to rev also means that Druid should bring Tigers instead of a Lynx. Nerf to SoI also was a nerf to condi PS and to a less degree power PS because Chrono/Rev isn’t sharing more might out.

Collectively, I can’t help but keep looking at Rune of Altruism. Chrono already has 300 healing power and perma regen. Not only is it perma regen but each phantasms pulses gives 2 stacks each and with a max stack of 5, I don’t think any healers are going to be able to add more in. The runes give another 175 healing power, 10% boon duration, allow the Chrono to give perma fury and 3 stacks of might. With SoI giving 3-4 stacks, I think this might be enough to “save” condi PS.

I realize that the meta doesn’t go 1 or 2 magi druid but it’s a pretty common pug tactic. Why magi druid staff auto if the chronos can have some stronger regen to keep rune of scholar buff up and let the druids go more DPS? Cleric/Minstrels even for the healing power and toughness to keep aggro.

OriOri.8724:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

Overall, a lot of individual good ideas here and there but I felt that most of the elite specs fell flat because they broke this very reasonable rule: As any elite specialization, it needs to work with core mesmer skills and traits and if possible have synergies with them! Or they were just hella OP. In the end my personal two favorites were decided because they work with the base class, rework the F1-F4 instead of giving a new F5, overall balance is sound and a they add a new feel/flavor and I could actually see myself using these in both PvE and PvP.

Absolutely not trying to sway your opinion at all. I’m just curious since I did end up throwing my idea together fairly quickly, was my spec one of the ones that you felt didn’t synergize with core mesmer very well? I tried to design it around what I believe to be the core idea behind mesmer of manipulating the reality that your opponents see and confusion, but in order to get it in on time I did not think about base skills and whether my spec would synergize with them well or not.

This feedback is just for personal improvement.

So for example, you and Xstein have rather similar thing called insanity/manic.

Phosphene: Apply insanity when you interrupt. Chaotic confusion: Chaos armor can now apply insanity. These allow old abilities to utilize insanity. Furthermore, the utilities and axe have insanity synergy built into them.

You don’t mention manic at all until your traits. Cantrips give manic if traited. Axe (not any other weapon) gives mamic if traited. And then there is a weird GM trait that uses up manic but doesn’t give a benefit for doing so. So as an elite spec, if I want to use manic at all, I’m forced to use the new stuff and there is some weird tear down mechanic that only works with cantrips.

Furthermore, there are also A LOT of confusion traits but almost nothing like mistrust, ineptitude or the old glamour traits. This was the biggest red flag for me. The 2nd major master is like this but then turbo OP with basically double confusion damage AND 50% longer duration. Scepter 3 would be a nightmare. With illusions giving 33% bonus duration, having 83% without any condi duration is overtuned on its own. You have 3 traits that defend against confusion but who really applies confusion often enough to make these matter (asides from this elite spec ^^).

I think a better way of going about designing an elite spec is think of 3 concepts you want the build to do. Pick something generic like support, DPS, condi, tank, heal, or even manic. Try to have a single row do that thing well. Obviously there will be overlap but try to have some purity in there. I don’t mean Axe as a row!. Your axe has 3 traits. Max 1. If you really want confusion to be a thing, have a single row. Not the entire major master trait section and then more.

Overall, a lot of individual good ideas here and there but I felt that most of the elite specs fell flat because they broke this very reasonable rule: As any elite specialization, it needs to work with core mesmer skills and traits and if possible have synergies with them! Or they were just hella OP. In the end my personal two favorites were decided because they work with the base class, rework the F1-F4 instead of giving a new F5, overall balance is sound and a they add a new feel/flavor and I could actually see myself using these in both PvE and PvP.

Silverkey’s enchanter. As much as I loathe the idea of another support elite spec before Mesmers get a DPS one, I would much rather have received that kind of design over what we got with chrono. Having the shatters work with support: Inspiring disapparition and the base F1-F4 rework (not sure if you meant for alacrity to become AOE with master of frag or not but nice trait synergy there) means that I would actually feel compelled to shatter and not feel bad about it. Not spamming wells and standing inside of them for support would be great. There was some Tempesty moving ethereal field, blast finisher, shared chaos aura (traited chaos protection) going on there… but I don’t think you took it far enough.

My vote has to be for Xstein’s Dementalist. I like the rework to the F1-F4 to give them new stuff instead of a new F5. Phantasms traits are great. Just like the enchanter, I would actually feel compelled to shatter a bit in PvE with traits like phantasmal shatter. As someone that wanted a main-hand interrupt Axe, I can get behind that design too. Minor change: I think the insanity debuff need to be inflicted on the Dementalist itself akin to lead attacks from thief traits.

zedapoc.1493:

Everyone seems to be forgetting Anet’s thinking, which they have reiterated several times:
WvW = PvE

Anet won’t split balance between them because as far as they are concerned it’s the same thing.

Did you read the patch notes? Blurred frenzy is a 100% buff in PvE and NOT WvW or PvP. Retaliation works in a similar manner.

1 Chrono… Maybe worth it if SoI hits 5 other people still. Going to be domination, inspiration, chrono. Get 3 shield phantasms up and spam wells for high alacrity uptime on the group. Really try to hit 10 people with your shield 5. Don’t worry about overcapping quickness but make sure to move around a lot to split the quickness among your 10 people. Standing still makes it more likely for only 5 ppl to get overbuffed.

1 chrono with no boon duration… don’t bother. At least have them be 1 of 2 chronos and minimum 20% boon duration food.

2 Chronos. Still up the air but as in the other topic, I don’t think mimic will be needed.

A lot of this is still up in the air until the meta for other classes settles in too.

Mikkel.8427:

They are not accounting for the stack limit and they are also assuming that Illusionary Inspiration is getting reset by CS.

My math is assuming way over 100% uptime if stuff like illusionary inspiration are getting cast on reset. Which means plenty of room for error. I am also counting stack limit but given Pyro’s testing it doesn’t matter.

Fay.2357:

My testing also agrees that you absolutely can’t do 100% uptime without domination and without mimic. That shouldn’t be too much of an issue though, distortion share is just so useful that domination is really nice to have regardless.

Runes of Scholar so that my rune of chrono doesn’t mess up quickness on me. Using the new herald 33% boon duration to replace what would be boon duration runes. I’m also only using 20% boon duration food and no boon duration utility. So 53% boon duration and then it bumps up to 86% when I swap weapons.
https://youtu.be/--2RJMX13u4
I start with a single time warp in F5 and nothing else.
1:12 F5 is off CD. I don’t bother though. I continue to get sloppier with my rotation and until…
2:55 I finally lose quickness for 1 second
2:56 Back to perma quickness
3:48 I double cast SoI without sigil of concentration (I’ve actually screwed this up a few times by now so only 53% boon duration)
3:58 I finally lose 1 more second of quickness again after having double casted SoI without my sigil of concentration buff. It has been 2 minutes and 46 seconds since I could have used F5 to recast TW but didn’t bother. Could have swapped to shield 5/4 then SoI and cotniued if I really felt like it.

There is no second Chrono giving me extra shield 5. There is no ele extending boons by 2 seconds. There is no guard.

TLDR: Only 86% boon duration. Terribad rotation. Still basically 100% quickness uptime without mimic and only using TW once. How could you possibly not manage 100% quickness uptime without mimic if you have 100% boon duration?

Apharama: double chrono means perma alacrity and there for likely double ele (or scepter/torch guard and other condi class). No need for the eles to swap to earth. I just assumed two passives per group or guard shouts. It’s not major, just meant to cover flaws and put less stress on the chrono.

@ori. I haven’t spent the gold and ds tokens on runes yet so it’s still hypothetical but looks really easy and practical for a rotation. Also not sure the runes are necessary but that’s going to take longer to decide where to drop boon duration from first.

I said nothing but time warp during F5. Since it’s 1 pulse per second and only 2 seconds long, TW should only ever apply 2 stacks. Shield 5 applies two stacks (again NOT double casting with F5) and SoI (also not double casting with F5) is 1 stack. That’s 5.

Granted the double chrono overlap with shield 5 can cause issues but that just means the chronos need to stagger better.

DPS chrono can Shield 5, SoI and then summon DPS phantasms before using F5, TW and WoR.

Bunker Chrono immediately uses F5/TW and then summons 3 shield 4 phantasms (SotE) before using Shield 5 and SoI.

Edit: I also need to test but don’t have the ppl right now. Does SoI still hit 5 other people on top of buffing the Chrono?

Also need to test:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sand_Squall
It increases current boon duration by 2 seconds. Does this count as a stack?

To show how easy it is to get 100% quickness up time while assuming 100% boon duration and perma alacrity. Domination/Illusions/Chrono for traited Signet and shatter CD reduction as well as DPS traits. Assume you spend 1/2 a second in F5 to just cast TW and nothing else:
TW=38% up time on quickness
SoI (traited) 33% up time on quickness
Tides of time: (not even double catching) 27% up time on quickness to 10 people.

So 38+33+27 = 98% without even really trying. Keep in mind that 27% up time is to 10 people and again, nothing but TW during CS. So double chrono tossing shields (not using F5 to double catch) is 54% quickness up time alone. This is not a hard rotation.

A “bunker chrono” that has 3 avengers up with PH since we have illusions traited = 32% x3 or 96% alacrity up time on 5 people.

The “DPS chrono” has 1 avenger for 32% alacrity up time and 2 swordsman. Wells of Recall and calamity are brought for another 40% alacrity up time before factoring in F5. With F5 it’s ~90% up time on 5 people and 100% on the chrono.

Basically the bunker chrono has zero reason to bring any wells at all. There is also overkill up time on quickness before even factoring in the Tempest passive trait or the Guard shout. These two facts combined is very liberating for Raid chrono the more I think about it. If rune of leadership isn’t needed, DPS runes such as scholar come back into the picture. Alternatively drop Sigil of concentration. Bring Sword and scepter or staff for a better DPS rotation.
————————————————————————————
Let’s talk Domination/Inspiration/Chrono:
TW is the only skill cast in F5: 32% up time
Shield 5 (no double catch or F5): 27% up time
Assume the trait procs once every 30 second: 20%
SoI is cast every 18 seconds: 33%
That’s plenty enough while forgetting that a 2nd chrono is giving another 27%.

Equip zealot/clerics gear. Get 3 avengers up with SotE. Equip rune of the monk for 15% boon duration and 10% outgoing heals. Spam MoP. You are now the tank and healer and providing perma quickness and alacrity. AND you still have a free utility spot.

Let’s go further from what people are currently thinking.
——————————————————————————
Condi boon share: Dueling, Chaos, Chrono: Might, fury, quickness, swiftness, regen, protection for 18% boon and condi duration. Sigil of concentration to bring that up to 51%. The other chrono already covers 27+% quickness up time with shield 5. Don’t need to get 100% on this one. 100% bleed duration.
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQRAre7ansICtfiFoBmfCUrhlVjqsDGhAo+Yj2p1sEWueC-TxhHAB+p+j+PBAy1PAwJBQPlgCp8Dk9HIFwiKrA-e
I’m sure someone could optimize this more since I only took 5 minutes coming up with that.

TLDR: WTF kind of crazy mimic/WoA rotations are people trying to make if they are assuming 2 chronos? It is so easy to get 100% quickness and alacrity without even touching wells or hitting 100% boon duration. (and also not including non-chrono teammates buffing quickness)

Silverkey.2078:

• Signet of Inspiration now copy the number of might stack currently on you instead of just one. I think that was what happened also with “we heal as one” for rangers when they added the boon copy functionality.
• Rune of chronomancer now give quickness to allies in the target area. The runes are dead with this patch, since the short personal stacks actually play against the new stacking limit and the new SoI design.

Any other suggestions?

If they are too concerned with might they could make it 3 or 5 stacks instead. I am all for the AOE chrono runes. Let necros have it. It’s not like they run around spamming 5 wells with 100% boon duration.

Xyonon.3987:

I’ve been playing with the Golem for a very long time today and there is absolutely no need for any commander gear whatsoever. In fact, it’s more important than ever to not use commander gear and optimize your DpS as Chrono, now that there are two of us in each party.

---

After trying various builds and combinations of traitlines and utilities,I came to the conclusion that – while Inspiration became an absolute must – you can still swap Illusions (yes Illusions is not mandatory) and Domination freely, weither you need more Alacrity or personal dps / invuln share.

So what I came up with over these few hours is this build I’m probably gonna use in Raids from now on:

>> CLICK ME <<

If you struggle to keep up your personal Alacrity for some reason, you can swap Calamity to Recall. If you still lack Alacrity, you should probably play Warrior again. :P

---

Thoughts and inputs, or issues I might have overlooked?

Greez!

Haven’t had much time to do much math myself but I think you’re missing 3 important things:
Shield five hits 10 people. This is important for double chrono since they both cover 20+% quickness. This means each chrono only needs to shoot for 80% uptime on their 5 people.
Guardian shout gives quickness
Tempest trait: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies
This extends ALL boons by 2 seconds. Passive trait from 2 DPS eles. They lose heal on aura. Who cares. It also gives 4 seconds of protection. SoI that for perma-prot.

So with 2 DPS eles that’s 8 seconds of protection and 4 seconds improved of all other boons with zero DPS loss to the tempests.

I personally figured Domination is better DPS than inspiration and shorter CD on SoI. No need for Mimic like Fay’s rotation. Furthermore there is the fact that there are 2 chronos. Only 1 needs to be the bunker and have focus pull. So the other chrono should go sword + shield/sword and SotE for better DPS and WoR for more alacrity instead of WoC. I think you hit a much closer spot for what will be meta compared to fay’s rotation. Your rotation also doesn’t get screwed if you need feedback.

Edit: Dom/Inspiration will of course be necessary for distortion share when required but I’m not convinced you need mimic either here. The double SOI, shields, allies and TW likely means you don’t need wells at all.

No well spam also means faster dps wind up with signet heal

Off the top of my head math: So I think what happens is that domination inspiration with double soi, shield 5 and just time warp with two chronos is 100% on 10 ppl (shield five hits all ten). No well spam required. Has distortion share. Also hidden trait to help from a double ele mirror comp
wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Imbued_Melodies
Which is 4 seconds of all boons every 30 seconds. Rev is out of the meta.

More iffy on this part: Alternative to distortion share might actually be drop inspiration (and maybe domination) for dueling or illusions chrono when distortion share isn’t needed. Integral for covering fury.

Dropping inspiration also means healers can bring regen

Fay.2357:

I can’t be ingame right now, can someone post the base durations of the SoI boons, as well as whether the active applies boons to you as well?

This. Also keep in mind that boons stack to a max of 5 instead of 9 now.

Ghotistyx.6942:

It’s not impossible, but far less likely than using what’s already been established.

I thought that too but then warrior is dagger/dagger if the leak is true?

Daggers were “light” main hand weapons. The general convention was that no class could wield a light weapon in the main hand with a heavy in the off-hand but warriors have all of the heavy off hands. Dagger/sword. Dagger/axe. Dagger/Mace. They are already breaking convention. Focus might be much more likely than you think.

I’m happy with the idea of axe though. Aesthetically, I think it goes better with the sword, focus, torch and pistol mesmers have as off-hands.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fortifying_Bond
Better yet, replace master fencer with this. Then move master fencer to where phantasmal fury used to be.

Or if the nerf is bad enough, just make it always buff your phantoms instead of ppl

Yeah aoe quickness is the only way they remain viable. Especially since the rune of durability are aoe boons and those are the real wvw problem, it doesn’t seem fair to be 1 second single target. Two classes that can use wells probably have no use for it soon.

OriOri.8724:

@NICENIKESHOE – I like your idea for imagined burden, it would certainly make boonstripping more useful and deadly in PvP/WvW, and it does fit the Domination line. I’m curious though as to how you would feel about Imagined Burden just being changed to being 2 stacks of might on every GS skill instead of just the auto? I only ask because I think that its a bit weird for a trait to decrease recharge time of GS skills and yet affect all of our boonstrip skills.

I kept the might on that trait because it was meant to be a sustained damage trait compared to the other two GMs being burst traits. It was also might on all clone attacks, not just GS clones. It was the least important part of the trait rework though. A reason to keep sword clones auto attacking for some damage if you will. Link to the original if you want to see more in depth discussion:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Imagined-Burden-Rework/first#post6235865

Xyonon.3987:

It’s more about that traiting the sword (power) and traiting the pistol (condi) should be on the same tier, since you barely gonna trait both of ’em. You also would like to trait the pistol and give them perma Fury as condi, so the whole thing there seems so obviously wrong to me.

I would also like to test phantasms with utility instead of damage. But let’s be realistic, this will never ever happen. :/

I like going sword/pistol power though. Here’s what I think should happen to Dueling:
GM Traits:
Fencer’s Finesse: Same as before. Furthermore, changes riposte to summon an additional swordsman instead of a clone.
Mistrust: Return to 2 stacks of confusion on interrupt: Add 50% chance on crit to cause confusion (1 stack 4 seconds) (not illusions, just the mesmer)
Deceptive Evasion: Clone on dodge and when entering stealth. So spamming stealth won’t create more clones but hopping in and out will. Decoy creates 2.
Minor GM: Shared fury: When you gain fury or quickness, your phantasms gain fury or quickness.

Master tier:
Harmonious Mantras: replaces FF. Adds a 3rd charge but doesn’t have a damage bonus.

Major tier:
Master fencer. Replaces p.Fury. Same function as current minor.
Mantra Master: Replaces desperate decoy. Discharging a mantra gives 100 power (or precision) for 10 seconds. Mantras recharge 20% faster.

All the GMs have much stronger defined game changing roles now. Sword trait gives power Mesmers much shorter wind up time in PvE. Riposte won’t be a DPS loss either by spawning a clone. SotE recharges both sword 4/5. Mistrust is still an interrupt trait but interrupts are useless vs break bars. The added clause would give a reason for condi mesmers in PvE to still bring it. Won’t break PvP as long as it doesn’t affect illusions. Deceptive evasion merged with desperate decoy. Eh it was just an idea. Could be kept as is.

The new GM minor trait means phantasms get fury and quickness in raid environment. Master fencer can still be picked in solo situations.

3rd charge on HM is both a defensive and offensive boost fits with the other two traits in that tier. Removed the damage bonus as it should be weaker if it’s not a GM trait. Hence splitting the trait into two parts. 100 power is a nice power boost. Raw stats affect phantasms too. However, confusion, ferocity, fury, and vigor on crit are in this line. It would thematically make sense to add precision for synergy with the entire line.

This lets mesmers go sword/pistol for both condi and power builds too =)

Shocking aura instantly ends blurred frenzy. Retaliation is only ~240 per proc but ends up doing 2-6k damage to the Mesmer depending on how many ppl are cleaved. Other auras will also go through blurred frenzy.

Weakness reduces endurance regeneration and poison reduces healing.

There are a lot more unblockables out there than just a few guardian skills. Necro warhorn 4 and traited staff marks are huge here. All corruptions are unblockable. All walls/wards are unblockable. Traited deflecting shot is a 10 second unblockable knock back on guard. Basi venom makes any attack unblockable for the entire team. Check out the full list:
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unblockable

Reveal is not necessary. Mesmer stealth isn’t tricky. Just cleave where they were and watch your auto attack rotation flip over to know you are hitting them. It’s so easy to kill stealthed targets. And then you show a rotation that has you camping wells while stealthed. If you didn’t the rotation wouldn’t work. Everyone knows where you are. Furthermore stealth and distortion prevent capping.

Channeling scepter 2 doesn’t mean nothing can hit you for 2 seconds. Just the next attack. Likewise, aegis is only 1 attack. Especially vs fast hit enemies or multiple enemies these defenses fall apart.

Sure your “rotation” may keep you alive in most 1v1s but this isn’t a 1v1 game. It’s a team game. If a team focuses you, you might be able to pop distortion to prevent 1 unblockable but if focused, that “rotation” won’t save you. I’m also fairly certain I could probably kill you on my DD or necro 1v1 if you just did that rotation but whatever.

Also no decent DH or warrior should die to that rotation. It’d be a stalemate at best for you.

I just grab my zealot/zerker mace shield communal defense, honor(heal on aegis, dodge, and symbol and bonus healing power from mace trait) DH. Don’t need the toughness from gear to aggro since retributive armor covers that. Just stand near him. One thing to note is that I think his 3rd auto chain can’t be blocked by mace 3 if he is targeting someone else so use it on his second attack. Blocking also removes conditions for an easy kill. Stand your ground and retreat plus a trap for cc.

@ deciever
I get what you’re saying. It’s just that vault and bound are also evades and both do more damage than blurred frenzy. So both have better dps. Better cd and better “offensive value”.
Overall point stands. New mesmer elite spec deserves more personal damage instead of illusion based damage.

Dagger auto on thief is 1.6 coeffs per second and gives endurance and poison.
Backstab is 2.4 coeffs in a single hit from stealth.

Sword auto for mesmer is about 0.9 coeffs per second.
Sure blurred frenzy is also 2.4 coeffs… over 2.5 seconds which puts it at .96 coeffs per second.

First off, how can you say sword 2 is a decent burst but sword auto is bad if they are basically the same thing when it comes to DPS?
Second thing, that’s just base coeffs. Comparing a Dom, Dueling, Chrono to a Deadly, Crit, DD:
The Chrono maybe has a 5-10% bonus from traits affecting blurred frenzy.
The Dare devil will be around 40-60% bonus from traits. Swapping Critical strikes to Trickery won’t change much here. Even the damage just from bound will do more DPS than blurred frenzy in the end.

How could you possibly argue that blurred frenzy isn’t weak offensively? It’s one thing to say it should be weak because of shatters or something but seriously? You really think blurred frenzy is a strong offensive skill? It’s not even a learn to dodge thing. People can just walk out of it easily.

Ithilwen.1529:

Exactly what Mesmer doesn’t need is more melee. I really would not like an axe as a weapon. If it must be, make it a boomerang type projectile weapon.. something like Chieftain Uhtahein’s throwing axe.

We have three ranged weapons and only 1 low dps power utility melee. We need more melee options

Curunen.8729:

Azukas.1426:

I predict something extremely OP compared to chrono

I predict a nerf (breaking) of every current elite spec before launch and every new elite spec being even more powerful than the state of all the current elite specs.

I’m torn about this. How some elite specs were designed, especially chrono, were conceptually power creep before any numbers were decided. F5 is just too kitten strong for balance. Herald, daredevil, and berserker feel like this too.

Other classes like Engineer, Necro and Guard actually have a decent elite spec and balance. It may not seem that way in PvE (elite spec all the way besides condi engi or condi ranger) but WvW and even some PvP builds are better as base engi, guard or necro.

Granted engi is weird because function gyro is so specific and they don’t have room for an F6. Tempest is in the weird middle too. WvW ele is better with the base class with fresh air and backline staff. The overloads are kind of balanced in that they are a long cast time and recharge on a squishy class and yet still very much power creep.

I think what’s going to happen is the split is going to stay that way. Tempest and maybe engineer will likely stay in a weird spot. Other classes will be actual side grades. Like if the leaks are to be trusted, sand shroud for Necro is going to be like RS, different but not necessarily better than DS. Some classes will forever more be power creep elite specs objectively better than the base class: Mesmer is here. I don’t think we will get just another pure support elite spec so probably massive DPS power creep elite spec that isn’t so shatter spammy in PvP.

apharma.3741:

DuckDuckBOOM.4097:

….

…stat buffs…

As well as bringing a ton of on demand, low cool down heavy CC and providing extremely easy might generation that doesn’t interfere too much with it’s DPS rotation at 18-20k dps it’s extremely hard to pass up.

Also ANet will not put a damage buff in inspiration, If you remember they removed a phantasm damage buff from inspiration because it didn’t fit the theme and they wanted to consolidate damage buffs into fewer lines.

I am not denying the banner buffs being strong. They are. Look at the common team comps though. 5/4/1, 5/5 and 4/4/2 all have 2 warriors. Even if warriors could buff more than 5 targets, they don’t in those comps. 7/2/1 is the only comp with a warrior buffing more than 5 people and it’s considered the weakest comp because 3 people don’t get buffed and in practice the warrior can barely buff those 7 people.

Every comp besides the 5/5 brings 1 chrono and that chrono buffs 10 people. It’s not 100% coverage on everything but it’s still strong. 5/5 is the only one with 2 chrono and that’s for distortion share. That comp basically says Chrono utility is so good, we will bring a second one even if it does poor DPS. Sure warriors have CC. The chronos also CC, tank, share distortion and have focus pull and reflects. I’m not saying warrior CC isn’t important but there is no way that a warrior brings better defensive/utility/CC support than a chrono. And then on top of that the Chrono also can bring easy might sharing if they swap 1 sigil (granted this may change with an SoI nerf).

Every other change people talk about to change mesmer DPS in PvE is a full rework and that isn’t going to happen. The major trait overhaul was our first chance at one and it didn’t happen. Making a major change before Chrono was the last chance we got at a full overhaul and it didn’t happen. As elite specs come out, the less and less likely a rework to base Mesmer function will ever happen because they will have to redesign all old elite specs and base class again. Example: How does persistent phantasms work with CP? It doesn’t. The closest we get to a “rework” is a new elite spec. Would it be nice to have an elite spec where phantasms don’t conflict with shatters? Yup and I would love a DPS focused elite mesmer spec. Check out my idea in the design an elite spec topic if you don’t believe me.

For the SoI buff specifically, there is a difference between 15% permanent trait bonus (the other trait bonus was made baseline during the rework) and a temporary buff that is part of a rotation. It doesn’t fix everything but it makes the Chrono DPS in a raid situation not completely crap. It also just makes the pure phantasm DPS rotation more interesting than summon 3 then auto attack until the end of time.

It should be pretty obvious this topic isn’t about fixing mesmer dps in its entirety for PvE.

When the alternative is WvW whining resulting in a nerf to SoI and chrono failing out of existence, I would prefer a change that doesn’t break WvW and PvP but also buffs the raid DPS and phantasm pure DPS builds.

Continuing on with the idea of buff rune of chrono while accepting that SoI may need nerfing:
If Rune of the Chronomancer became 1 second base quickness in an AOE, with 100% boon duration, that’s 2 seconds AOE.
WoE: 2/22.5. WoA: 6+2/18.8. WoC: 2/15.WoR: 2/26
Basically… 70% uptime on quickness to 5 people with wells before factoring in CS.
Shield 5 and TW would still potentially be a part of the rotation although shield could be dropped for a pistol for an extra DPS phantasms and less alacrity if it’s not needed.

Now let’s look at a “nerf” to SoI. Instead of nerfing, let’s change the function so that it won’t be broken in WvW. When you cast SoI, your phantasms do 40% more damage for 9 seconds. This would apply to currently summoned phantasms, not newly generated ones. The exception would be SoI procced by Illusionary inspiration since it technically casts after you summon a phantasms. So 18 second CD on SoI (traited and alacrity). Drop WoC or WoR for the new SoI.

Continue using Dom, Inspiration, Chrono for distortion share with SoI and traited SoI on summon. Quickness uptime remains the same. Alacrity uptime remains the same. 40% bonus to phantasms also long as you chain together SoI well. Win win for raids? Potential room for a Dom, Inspiration, Illusion Staff+Sc/Sw DPS mesmer as pure DPS?

Is it broken when it comes to Wvw or PvP?
Some Mesmers may try phantasm builds. Take protected phantasms to give distortion on first summon. First summon of GS4 procs SoI which buffs itself. Then the berserker dies after it does some damage and is cleaved out. Sounds fine to me. Realistically, not enough phantasms would survive for long enough for SoI to buff them after they have already attacked. CP would create a new phantasm which removes the buff. PvP Shatter builds would have to give up Mental Defense. Furthermore, a split could be made so that SoI is a 20% buff in PvP/WvW and a 40-50% buff to phantasms in PvE. Power Necros could drop wells and lose their Scholar bonus for a bit of AoE quickness. Not OP and highly unlikely for necros to get boon duration. Overall doesn’t sound like it’ll break anything.

TLDR: Change SoI to buff phantasm damage to fix mesmer DPS problems but remove boon share. Change rune of Chrono so that SoI is no longer needed to share quickness. Win win for all game modes.

I think kits would be way too much to add to a new class since you would need to add 6 kits and only engi was designed with a no CD 6 weapon kit swap in mind.

What about F1-F3 being different attunements. F1 is base weapon attunement. F2 and F3 are 2 different book attunements. Or they could just add a new F4 which is “book attunement” to bring back the animations similar to celestial avatar.