(edited by ErazorZ.5209)
Hello guys,
Ive had the pleasure to play with a merry bunch of people in my own created PvP guild. (never thought it would be so much fun running and playing with a guild on ts and the likes)
But recently ive become more and more aware of apparent imbalances in the game.
I dont really understand the PvP devteams stance on balance but it really seems they just dont care/dont understand/are forced to?
Every time something big changes in PvP, wich is not a whole lot to begin with, they just completely overhaul the system.
They are doing the same now with the new traitsystem. Wich will be followed up by a handfull of bandaids and then left alone for half a year and then a new revamp will be incomming, as per ussual.
I do not want to make this a long post or anything, but the stagnation has got the best of me.
Aslong as mesmers can hit a 1 shot kill with no reall counterplay if your out of dodgerolls, a ranger can press 2 for absurd damage and hit the longest immob in the game and straight up kills you if your out of stunbreaks, a thief teleports asif hes map hacking with sword making him completely immune to any sort of focus fire or attacks in general from range/cast time. Engineers that can forever knock all your stuff down regardless of stability and then reheal up with a healing turret untill infinity with there low cooldowns.
And all the other weaponsets of non meta builds that are pretty much underpowered to its core. From the stance of pure dps to conditions wich are only viable on a few classes.
I see no reall reason to continue playing. Its obvious the meta is the meta, simply because it is the best, not because its the most inventive. but it makes the most common sense against most builds and counterplays the most.
There is no anti meta, wich is unhealthy for this game and instantly leads to stagnation.
And not the OPness of builds, but the Underpoweredness of builds are making me quit with PvP.
Yes balancing is hard. But not balancing and just overhauling the system every year or so, thats not fixing anything its just overhauling the problem and starting ‘anew’. It only leads to more stagnation, instead of a healthy game.
The health of the balance is also directly seen in people who flame extraordinarily much, and also a lack of solid hardcore playerbase, wich will keep diminishing because there is no reall incentive to play in a stale meta. The only few people left are those who want quick dailies and people who just bought the game and are discovering what PvP is all about (wich i have to say is allot of fun at the start, untill the stagnation comes in)
The most hardcore people playing this game are people who played from the start and this was there ‘esports’ of choice, or they simply like the feeling of being able to handle a high end class that is not even a contestion to some of the underpowered weapons and traits that are out there even versus better players.
The reall dealbreaker for me, was Stronghold. It shows anet is not willing to change there stance on pvp, only 5v5 games, but would wrather experiment more with mechanics that really dont have allot to do with competetive playervplayer alltogether. (see skyhammer for a reference) But rely more on communications then ever before, wich most random people who play by there selves dont have, dont use, or dont want to even understand. It seems more cassually focussed at its core, but in the end stagnation will come to that map aswell, people figuring out what the best strategy is and then everyone will be doing it like that aswell.
So i want to discuss this topic here, hence me posting this here, what is your view exacly on how things are in PvP currently?
Only thing i will say about this is i agree, but dont forget the balancing system. It needs to be more frequent if they want to keep a good balance up and running, especially with the expansion comming soon.
Rest of the points i all agree with. Maybe some day anet will venture in PvP areas of the forum and stay there, instead of peeking once a blue moon when they are ‘prepping’ for a pvp update every half a year. One can hope. lol
The observations in this thread are not statistically relevant.
It is relevant to me and to whom i speak with ingame about it tho. Since i now have more knowledge on how the system works i can better understand it. Instead of guess what seems obvious at the time with less knowledge.
This is why i thank John Smith for his response because the entire notion of ‘mob only DR’ taught me more then i could figure out from what i could find about the topic.
Ofcourse not every question is filled, but i understand just as anyone the devs here dont have all the spare time in the world, so i will save everyone the effort of trying to clarify it all. And i might just see it someday in someone elses questions.
Hence a thank you(again) to John Smith for clarifying and taking the time for this.
You misunderstand my meaning. I get that the content in the thread is significant to you; no argument there. I’m speaking about the statistical relevance of the data that people are using to conclude (again) that there is some massive DR conspiracy theory affecting their accounts.
If you ask me its mostly because there are no concrete awnsers from anet. Yes devs try to explain it enough so it wont hurt the game. But its like area 51, because of secrecy and possiblity, no matter how slim, the chance is there that aliens exist. Aslong as you are convinced enough, by, be it personal experiences of living there and seeing flying stuff that doesnt look like a plain, or just communicating with people who have done ‘extensive research’ no matter the source.
I mean im not saying it was aliens, but…
You get my drift? Aslong as secrets arent unveiled, people will ponder and wonder about the possibilities. And if you ask me its natural that if you for instance take a solid stance (like i tried to do) to show people, something i was convinced of happening. There will always be the possibility that it might be happening unless something unveils the shroud and opens the eyes. Like john did, with saying something as little as that DR does work in different areas and different aspects.
The thing is, this is a complicated matter, simply because anet cannot show the entire sourcecode because that would mean people would try to find a way to abuse it (be it try to get the most out of something for the time there is no DR yet and quit instantly with doing said thing when they calculated from the source when DR is supposed to hit)
I was really wondering myself why this same occurance kept happening to me and thought it might be something coded. But since RNG and DR are different things used in different ways to aquire loot, there could not be a system in place for that since it would not always be the same (a system). So in my perspective, i mightve been looking too hard at it, trying to discover how it works. And once i reached a certain point of certainty, i tried to educate people about it, by hopping on the forums, to make it stop. Because in all fairness if what i was saying would actually be correct, i feel it would be bad for the game. As ive expressed that concern enough i hope.
The observations in this thread are not statistically relevant.
It is relevant to me and to whom i speak with ingame about it tho. Since i now have more knowledge on how the system works i can better understand it. Instead of guess what seems obvious at the time with less knowledge.
This is why i thank John Smith for his response because the entire notion of ‘mob only DR’ taught me more then i could figure out from what i could find about the topic.
Ofcourse not every question is filled, but i understand just as anyone the devs here dont have all the spare time in the world, so i will save everyone the effort of trying to clarify it all. And i might just see it someday in someone elses questions.
Hence a thank you(again) to John Smith for clarifying and taking the time for this.
Well, im sure its not an illusion, its just being lucky at the start and then fate decided me as a person should stop being lucky. Seems its out of the hands of anet and in the hands of a higher power, i guess the force wasnt as strong in me during may the 4th.
Same reason why ‘fate’ decided that i should be hacked during the 3rd week after release and lose everything but decided to give me my most prized possesion back (the gold seller missed my corrupted weapon lol)
No, the perceived streaks and “lucky” periods are the illusion. Any random distribution will have places that appear to have an unbalanced spread, but that’s because humans are wired to see patterns in the world.
Yes i understand what the phrasing means, but its hard to unsee literally about 7 charged core drops just before the event started in a few days time (wich i played like 4 hours intotal) versus the droprate i got after i farmed SW chests a bunch 2/3 charged cores in a week.
This is however obviously also possible with RNG. since every DR (as it seems atleast) has its own personal signature on looting mobs etc. What is possible however, because i have not extensively enough farmed SW to actually notice a big difference in charged core droprate from just SW, is that the luck of the draw just was not with me, since i did get other cores after it. What is possible however, since ive met this ‘exact’ same thing multiple times in gw2 in my personal experience, that many of those experiences are part of an illusion.
I’m not aware of Bandit Chest loot having the concept of DR.
Oh i meant the Embroidered Coin Purses, excuse me. But i assume that also is fully based on RNG then? This is really interesting. Because now i really dont know how or why this constant diminishing returning happen to me fully based on RNG.
Any ideas? Or is it really just tricks my mind is playing on me for playing too much?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clustering_illusion
That link should be in John’s signature, I swear…
Well, im sure its not an illusion, its just being lucky at the start and then fate decided me as a person should stop being lucky. Seems its out of the hands of anet and in the hands of a higher power, i guess the force wasnt as strong in me during may the 4th.
Same reason why ‘fate’ decided that i should be hacked during the 3rd week after release and lose everything but decided to give me my most prized possesion back (the gold seller missed my corrupted weapon lol)
The same fate that decides that others with over 4,000 hours played never see a precursor drop. While others find 2 back to back. Yup, sounds about right.
As for you getting hacked, that more than likely can be traced back to multiple reasons for which 99% of the time the user is at fault. Here are some:
- weak password
- shared passwords
- troyans
- emails getting hacked
- no authenticator activated (granted, that was not available at launch as far as I recall)
- not having email authentication active (this was available at launch)
Oh no i got hacked because i used a shared password on a known forum wich got hacked. Fully my fault in that sense. I was more talking about the luck i get in general lol.
I’m not aware of Bandit Chest loot having the concept of DR.
Oh i meant the Embroidered Coin Purses, excuse me. But i assume that also is fully based on RNG then? This is really interesting. Because now i really dont know how or why this constant diminishing returning happen to me fully based on RNG.
Any ideas? Or is it really just tricks my mind is playing on me for playing too much?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clustering_illusion
That link should be in John’s signature, I swear…
Well, im sure its not an illusion, its just being lucky at the start and then fate decided me as a person should stop being lucky. Seems its out of the hands of anet and in the hands of a higher power, i guess the force wasnt as strong in me during may the 4th.
Same reason why ‘fate’ decided that i should be hacked during the 3rd week after release and lose everything but decided to give me my most prized possesion back (the gold seller missed my corrupted weapon lol)
I’m not aware of Bandit Chest loot having the concept of DR.
In other words it’s just RNG saying “you’re getting crap for a bit”?
edit: I’d venture a guess that all containers (chests, lootbags, material bags, etc) are subject to “raw” RNG, without the application of DR factored in.
Yes that what it seems like to me aswell. If this is the case, i really really wonder how the hell this keeps happening to me. lol
I’m not aware of Bandit Chest loot having the concept of DR.
Oh i meant the Embroidered Coin Purses, excuse me. But i assume that also is fully based on RNG then? This is really interesting. Because now i really dont know how or why this constant diminishing returning happen to me fully based on RNG.
Any ideas? Or is it really just tricks my mind is playing on me for playing too much?
either way, it means what JS is describing doesnt match what players are experiencing in the actual game world.
I’m checking a secondary data set to confirm my DR data, though this can be tricky business.
I should be more clear. I’m DR of Monster Kills.
This is interesting, Thanks for the response!
What would you base my experiences of then? Because im genuinly curious how it can be that i perceive this always in the same notion..
Also the DR in question i was talking about was mostly comming from bandit chests loot. Since that is the DR im hitting in SW (kinda hard to hit mob DR when event mobs dont drop loot in SW lol)
But sincerly thanks for checking my monster DR!
either way, it means what JS is describing doesnt match what players are experiencing in the actual game world.
I’m checking a secondary data set to confirm my DR data, though this can be tricky business.
I should be more clear. I’m DR of Monster Kills.
This is interesting, Thanks for the response!
What would you base my experiences of then? Because im genuinly curious how it can be that i perceive this always in the same notion..
Also the DR in question i was talking about was mostly comming from bandit chests loot. Since that is the DR im hitting in SW (kinda hard to hit DR when event mobs dont drop loot in SW lol)
But sincerly thanks for checking my monster DR!
Virtually nobody triggers DR anyway.
Also can you imagine being one of those 26 people, kitten that would be no fun at all.
Virtually nobody triggers DR anyway.
My own personal experiences as others are different tho.
Especially noticable now with SW ‘beta’ farming. Ofcourse i havnt hit rock bottom with DR, since i feel even the diminishing returns have various levels dependant on how long you play 1 area of the game. Wich in my example i was also trying to explain with the "If i play 3 days straight the first day i will get 10 rares, second 5 rares, consecutively speaking the last day 1. Slowly creeping the diminishing returns.
I for one am not a hardcore farmer who only plays SW 8 hours a day, so rock bottom i will not hit with DR since i also Pvp, and do other stuff when i cant be bothered with SW. But it is still very definatly noticable.
If anet would have a graph of my loot the past 2/3 weeks in SW, they might see what i mean…
Maybe those that feel they are being hit by DR faster than what ANet claims can get together with John Smith. They can ask him to look into the days they are saying it happened and have him see if DR kicked in at 20 or 30 minutes instead of the hours ANet says it does.
I would gladly do so, its funny because to try and test how long DR cooldowns are the last few days ive tried to play the content i think im DR’d in the least amount i could.
And even with this i noticed a difference, i actually got mediocre to when i first started charged cores again, Eventho it wasnt the same when i only did it once a week for an hour or two, since i got way more back then.Until you provide actual numbers of kills and specifics on the drops, it looks very much like normal variation, not any sort of DR or ‘double secret probationary DR’. The people that present stats on industrial production of precursor (by forging rares) are sometimes up in profits by a few thousand, and sometimes down as much as 4-5,000 gold — that’s how random numbers work. You get lucky in streaks…and unlucky in streaks. It’s very rarely ‘average’ for any short period of time, especially with the huge variety of potential drops.
tl;dr it takes a fair bit of data to establish whether something unusual is happening or not.
and ps I’m still willing to help people organize to collect their data, even though I’m confident it won’t show anything odd.
Like i said, true randomness is truly random, what i have been experiencing is not truly random but statisticly noticed, getting worse. I for one can see randomness (like that one time when i got a ori node from a bltc key) vs static loot that gets less rare and worse over time, eventually till you hit almost no good loot at all except for the occasional reall RNG, its not just the uber rare drops, its mostly notable in drops that drop more often. Like rares, since eventually you will notice with these sorts of things the fastest when you get 10 rares in an hour after not playing for 10 days, versus getting 5 the second day you farm and barely 1 the last few days when you farm.
If this stuff happens always the same, first few hours i get good loot and afterwards it diminshes, there really isnt much else to say except DR is too harsh. Especially since ive noticed this exact same trend in every sort of thing i do, (in pvp i used to get almost always atleast 1 random exotic every reward track, nowadays i noticed that i get 1 maybe every 10 reward tracks since ive been playing it pretty much allot the past few months.
It was the same with farming mobs in orr, drops from world bosses (where i used to get 2 rares + 1 guaranteed versus no rares at all for days except for the guaranteed)
It really is the same. And i know allot of people have this aswell, since ive been discussing it allot stretched over a year at least. The first time i really noticed it was when the ‘orr anti goldseller stuff’ entered gw2. The date when DR started for me.
Maybe those that feel they are being hit by DR faster than what ANet claims can get together with John Smith. They can ask him to look into the days they are saying it happened and have him see if DR kicked in at 20 or 30 minutes instead of the hours ANet says it does.
I would gladly do so, its funny because to try and test how long DR cooldowns are the last few days ive tried to play the content i think im DR’d in the least amount i could.
And even with this i noticed a difference, i actually got mediocre to when i first started charged cores again, Eventho it wasnt the same when i only did it once a week for an hour or two, since i got way more back then.
Added to that we have outliners of the RNG scale added to this systematic looting schedule, with people always getting great loot regardless if they are on DR, and vice versa, people who are in the worst tier who never seem to ever get an exotic. But these are very rare instances. An anomaly if i say so myself.
The fact remains tho that DR is ruining people who dedicate time to get good loot in certain areas and are forced to explore ‘other options’ in the game they dont necesairly want to play, but considering DR is more valueable timewise. This means if you want DR to never have any effect on you. You will have to do all possible content ingame in a certain order every day to maximise loot potential.
Lets hypothetically say, i start with chest farming for an hour (not sure if its an hour but its definatly not more before DR hits me) After that hour i will go to orr, do events for an hour. After that i will do dungeons for an hour (because yes even ingame drops from mobs in dungeons get DR’d, but i have not seen DR hit different dungeons, aka doing the same dungeon on different paths mean you will probably also get hit, since your killing the same mobs in the same zone, but doing path 1 of 2 different dungeons will probably not cause DR, i have not tested this because i am not a huge fan of dungeons and have not much experience here) After doing dungeons, you will need to start doing World bosses, after that PvP for an hour and after that to close things off Wvw for an hour.
The problem with this is that it gates you in a certain schedule (because if you want DR to not hit you, you will need to avoid the area you are DR’d in for aslong as the DR cooldown is) So if i where to do chestfarming, do a dungeon, and get back to chest farming, if your DR is stacked high enough with the initial chest farm, you will still feel the effects the second time you do it. Wich is where the true problem lies.
I mean i enjoy all parts of guildwars 2, But sometimes i just want to dedicate my time to stuff like PvP to get really good, And when DR hits me within an hour it demotivates me to continue, eventho thats what i want to do.
The thing i was pointing out at is ALL sorts of loot in this game have DR except guaranteed loot (like rares for instance at world bosses)
The fact is simply said that DR kicks in way to fast on all fronts. And dont give me the RNG ‘explanation’ because to be frank RNG isnt measurable at all, droprates are.
Statisticly its possible to get a day of so called ‘super luck and get all the goodies’ while the next 6 days are all wasted time and you get literally no drops.
Ofcourse with RNG this would be possible,
but if this happens every week, every time in the same timeframe of the first hour extremly good loot and then the next 7 hours give you terrible loot. Then no its not RNG obviously, but DR, Obviously DR. Especially if its measurable at every part of the game no matter what gametype your playing (chestfarm/worldboss/teq/wvw/pvp even fractals etc.)
Because if the same ‘first day of play super loot’ is true every time you take a break and the rest following is bad loot, then thats not RNG, instead it is programmed to do so.
Example; 1 hour good loot, 7 hours bad loot. Take a break (sleep) 1 hour good loot, 7 hours bad loot etc. (take week break) 3 hours very good loot, 5 hours bad loot.
This is systematicly giving you diminishing returns with a low regenerating ‘DR’
Magic find however ties in with DR, eventho the DR negative is way bigger then the MF positive. Aka even with super high MF, DR will diminsh your drops to such a low that MF seems useless. And someone without any MF and without DR would receive better loot then someone with those both maxed.
(edited by ErazorZ.5209)
Concensus, The skin looks good, the price is too high. Same for me.
I figured it would be a 400 gems skin because its an off hand skin. I was sold when i saw it.
When i saw the 600g price tag. Not so much.
You really arent paying attention to what you got when you started and when you farmed for a while.
Ive been very busy with SW this last week, i remember when i did not farm SW extensively i got aprox 10 t6 mats every vinewrath and from mobs.
That droprate diminshes extremely poorly to 3 t6, sometimes even not granting me 1 at all.
Chestfarming, when i did it once a week, i got atleast 2/3 charged cores per 50/75 chest. sometimes a charged lodestone.
As it stands now, after chestfarming almost once a day, or doing SW in general. I get 1 charged core every 200 chests, if im lucky, and no charged lodestones at all in 2 weeks time.
Ive noticed this at every part of the game, from reward tracks in pvp, to worldboss kills, to doing daily teq, everywhere.
Im not saying its impossible to get sick loot from farming daily, im saying the returns are diminished to the loot you ‘used’ to get.
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diminishing_returns
The thing is, it kicks in WAY to fast. and it seems the entire notion of going to another area to reset it these days gets longer and longer. This way ‘old accounts’ will be affected by diminishing returns way faster, since they already ‘saturated’ there accounts with most decent ‘profitable areas’ , actually effectively granting a mass diminishing returns in the entire game at some point at spots where you can get gold, if you play atleast 8 hours a day. It sometimes even feels that the diminishing returns takes over a week to reset, (note PvP reward tracks).
New areas on the other hand, ussually grant you super loot when they just got released, making you play there, and be like ‘Oh wow, this areas is proffitable’ yet it just has a new diminishing return you havnt touched yet.
This is bad for the game, if people know about it. Hence why Anet is not openly responding or talking about it, making the numbers open.
Because this is ‘bad’ for business, or wrather, its bad for investors investing in gw2 demanding a certain quarterly report. ‘buy gems’
But more importantly this is bad for the veteran community alltogether, aka the longevity of gw2.
This is also reflected in the state of PvP, or WvW atm. They where used as ‘commercials’ to lure people in. But any PvP game thats online with multiple classes should get more love then once every quarterly/half a year, of balance patching.
The only focus anet has right now is the expansion. They dont release any more reall content updates biweekly or even monthly. Because suddenly they feel more inclined to let the playerbase bleed out starving for more content. Because they know they will return regardless when the expansion comes out.
This is bad business. Especially if you see how the gemstore still gets love. It really shows where anet is focussing its assets the most. ‘more revenue’
People might say ‘Yeah thats how a business works’.
I say, ‘Yeah thats how a company works wich cares more for money, than the players. killing longevity and trust from veterans’ Its a cashin quick and after run when you get the money.
I, as a veteran gw1 player am concerned about the actuall longevity of gw2 if these practises are going to be maintained. Because the more i hear about it, the less i want to keep playing. Or even bother with buying an expansion. (wich i definatly will the first time around, but if this continues. there will not be a third dragon for me to kill at the very least)
Artificially lenghtening playtime in a game is bad.
EDIT: For all reading this now. It seems DR has a difference in what mob and loot you gain. Some stuff is fully rng, whilst others can be hit by DR but asfar as i can tell it is really rare to hit a DR since allot of stuff is fully RNG (bandit chests for example)
I guess RNG and DR will always be tricky since its so complex to understand and it seems the few who have hit DR hit it only on specific things (like monster kills).
So in general what i have concluded from this is that in the end it is all luck of the draw. Thank you for reading regardless and let this thread inform you if you have any questions about it.
(edited by ErazorZ.5209)
Well, there is only 1 reason why i dislike playing with zergs. Not because i hate other people or i am antisocial.
Its because its easy.
pressing 1 once to tag and you have guaranteed loot. This should never be the essence in guildwars 2. I feel with the current weaponskill system we should be able to fight bigger stronger mobs, who dont just die because your spamming one, or do 1 simple thing to dodge the big attack.
I want to actually be able to play and be required to use all my skills. In a zerg or without one. For AI, they need smart enemies who know what to do against people not paying attention or just dont understand what a dodgeroll is for. force them to die and restart. And let them learn the hard way.
This is the problem of the cassualness of PvE, its the same problem why zerker are used everywhere. The game is too kitten easy.
If there is one thing i hope anet will do is punish the people who arent ‘ready’ yet to play in certain content, not just by locking certain skills behind missions. But also because they lack a certain skill themselves irl and they need to practise it to get better and beat it.
As a retired staff ele, now playing s/f, the only wish i have for staff is faster combat. faster cooldowns. and more single target skills that actually do damage according to those cooldowns.
Welp picked elementalist in guildwars 1 when i was a kid about 10 years ago. Because i thought mages where cool.
still run ele to this day.
While I don’t think the OP’s suggestion is exactly the change we’re going to go with, I thought I’d drop by and let you all know that the effectiveness of turret engineer is something we’re looking into very closely right now. Once our plans are a bit more concrete I’ll give an update.
Have a good weekend,
Grouch
If Turret builds get nerfed, expect whine/rage post about every build in game Josh. It’s a slippery slope to walk along. Look how people started piling on other builds already.
Meanwhile, there is nothing AFK about a turret build, nothing! Tron, I’m just as active if not more so than you in that condi thief video of yours. If you think it’s fair to be able to hop into a node, drop caltrops, and hop out you’re being completely disingenuous. Turret’s don’t have condi clears. So you are basically asking for an “I WIN” button. Not to mention every Shoutbow can continue to burn the entire area without consequences.
So the turret engi is the first and only class to be balanced out with?
Come on who are you kidding. You need constant balance patches, to get a good balanced game. Right now i feel the balance is really close to optimal myself. Except for the turret engis and a few tweaks here and there. But turrets right now are the jack of all traders class atm.
And aslong turrets arent active skillbased noteholders, there is no skillbased game at all.
While I don’t think the OP’s suggestion is exactly the change we’re going to go with, I thought I’d drop by and let you all know that the effectiveness of turret engineer is something we’re looking into very closely right now. Once our plans are a bit more concrete I’ll give an update.
Have a good weekend,
Grouch
Yes! Thank you!
Im so happy right now. To be honest i did not think they where getting looked at before HoT.
Im extremely extatic about this!
Thanks Anet!
I just played a single game and instantly realised the main goal of the game is not to PvP but to escort dolyaks … err rangers and doorbreakers with the occasional boss spawn.
Niche rolls are gonna be the highlight of this map and it doesnt fit the current style gw2 has had with PvP at all, especially the fact that i feel like im champ farming with worse loot.
Since thats what you have to do to win, kill the champ.
It promotes no reall skilled PvP. Its all about who has the highest DPS to down the lord the fastest whilst still having decent support in a zerg. And if there is something ive learnt, PvP zergs do not require a high skillcap.
I hope anet understood the idea of trebs on point cap maps are used solely to treb points. Because they have no reall goal if the battle keeps moving since most people can just run out of it, no problem since there are no reall defining points you need to ‘cap’
Sure you can easily try to stop a zerg of NPC’s knocking on your door with it. But isnt it better to be there yourself instead, during supply running? instead of going out of your way to get a treb wich is not remotely close to where fights are bound to happen?
I like the map from a non pvp perspective. But please dont put it in ranked mode… Dont do skyhammer all over again.
Yea we want the /resign back from guildwars 1.
Yeah i have not played it yet myself, but i am afraid they just threw in objectives to make the game less about indivudual skill and more about communications and positioning.
Punishing all soloQ people in the process who want to try it out but dont have friends/parties available at those times.
I have the feeling if your not there at the right time where your supposed to be, you might cause a loss to your team, And because the map is so big, its gonna be really easy to overextend a battle.
On the other hand, most of the side objectives arent THAT far off from where the main fights happen. Even if the map is this big, respawning will definatly be punished with this big lenghty map and travel times. So not dying is even more important now then ever.
I will see it when i play it tho, im not convinced this will be the ESL map that weve been waiting for. And it feels like an ‘extension’ to the normalization of people who dont know howto play, who want to play and win, in the same way turret engi is not being looked after.
Eventho it kills any competetive spirit thats not quite there yet skillwise or who does not have full communications just yet. (aka they are making a clear gap between pro and bad wich will be eventually unable to be overcome if they continue this way)
They should add the ‘resign’ command from gw1.
Its funny how all sorts of classes have problems with turrets.
Dps classes all have a problem because they dont have enough sustain, because of net turret CC’s and high enemy bunker stats.
bunkers all have a problem by not having enough dps to ‘kill’ an engi wich makes turrets go off cooldown very often.
Supporters are generally bad in 1v1 scenarios. But versus a turret engi, both of the above are true.
You need high sustain versus a turret engi +high damage (aka what d/d ele was before the might nerf)
The ONLY way currently to beat engis is to outrotate them. Outrotating depends on being able to communicate quickly and efficiently (TS for example) And in general understand how the game is played.
Being in an organised party, outrotating engi’s shouldnt be the hardest thing in the world. Unless you have stuff that turret engis counter. thiefs vs 2 turret engi enemies will always result in a 4v5 matchup for example.
The main issue here is that almost noone in the guildwars 2 community uses TS effectively dedicated in a 5 man group except a few ‘tryhard’ due to the sheer cassuallness of gw2.
Soloqueuing is impossible to win versus turret engis who have a team that knows rotation. As is 2/3 man queuing since you need everyone on point at the right times to rotate to a win.
This is the current spot why turret engi’s need some sort of nerf. Yes its beatable if your organised. But if the brunt of players arent organised, that would mean PvP versus a turret engi with the brunt of players is just no fun.
And here i am not even talking about newbies just entering who see this, and seriously cant do anything at all about it.
Skillcaps should be balanced on all levels, not just the pros.
meta just means the most ‘populair’ build, the ‘meta build’
Pro’s ussually instigate meta by playing a build and showing off its strenghts when fighting to be the best. People copy those builds in vast amounts, then they get shared all over the web and it becomes ‘populair’ Hence meta.
Either that, or the turrets should get normalized to actuall decent numbers, lower seconds on active cc’s,so there stuns are allot shorter. less damage from rocket, thumper turret reduce active cripple. Numbers should be brought down.
1 well placed turret behind a zerg and up on a highground versus you and your team. Wich if you fight equally is unwinnable because of said turrets.
people seem to forget that not all turrets go cap close or far alone, a reall turret engi plants his turrets on zerg points or has communications with there team when an enemy zerg is inbound, for extra support healing CC, you name it.
Turretsteams give you the ability because of there tanky nature to outrotate you faster then you can outrotate them. Because if your rotating correctly between 2 turret engis, You will always have to kill the engi. Or overcommit to capping.
Turrets should definatly require amulets if they ever want to be competetive. “Oh ur running zerk turrets? atleast i can one shot you”.
“Oh your tank turrets? Atleast i wont have to bother with your damage turrets”.
The flaw with turrets is the base stat, wich is too high and too effective. Also the cast time is too high, Because it doesnt just pop CC or DPS, it does it at the same time dependant on where you started to engage from and mutliple times during a fight. At a steady rate of fire at all times. Never missing a beat. Aka AI.
Most posts ive read about ‘howto beat engi’ is considering they dont have a team backing them up or understanding turret placement.
Wich i understand that most people at soloQ do. But at higher ranked play, a turret team knows howto rotate. And because of the tankyness of turret engis and turrets themselves, once they cap a point it takes too long to recapp unless your fully organised and can get the engi before he moves to his target. without engaging in a zerg. at the same time. Wich one some maps is impossible. And due to the sheer “doesnt matter what amulet X is using” Turreteers ussually go full ham on defensive amulets. Making them a perfect target to tank a whole lot of damage with. Combining this with CC turret And they can escape nearly anywhere and leave you on cooldowns.
I am giving information on how to beat a team of turret engis. Me and a bunch of guildies play 4 turret engis and a support warrior. It turn out 5 turret engis are less effective. We push all three points cause this is the most effective strategy with turret engis. Forcing a team of turret engis into a team fight situation is not in their favor most of the time. Just make sure to actually take out the rocket turret and the rifle turret if convenient. I have see so many team fights with rocket turrets just left alone. The teams that effectively zerg us win 10/10 times because we have terrible mobility and are frequently forced to leave a significant amount of our damage at a point that there is no fighting. Teams with too many tanky builds do not do well against us. You should NEVER be out rotated by a team of turret engis. When fighting turret engis over committing is not necessarily a bad idea.
As a person that plays turret engi, I can tell you that you do not want the turret stats to scale with amulet. I run zerker amulet sometimes just for fun and I find it makes 1v1s even easier, but you die too fast in 2v1s. If someone had zerker amulet and turrets that scale they will just put down the turrets then stand back and laugh as the AI wrecks you. You do not want to make it easier for the engi to put all their damage into the AI.
Sure, zerging works, if you have the right team composition. And thats it.
Also any team who runs turrets runs 2 for points purposes. Any more is overkill and makes you immobile as a zerg/vs a zerg as you said.
Best parties ive seen with turrets are people who have 2 turret engis and a solid backbone both turret engis get on points where zergs are most frequent (mid close for example) so there other teammembers who are not turreting can always support if they rotate enough. Wich is effectively the problem i was trying to convey. You cannot outrotate 2 turret engis, since they will always have 2 points. And if one is being zerged your ‘non-turret teammates’ should support any zerg fight vs a turret engi.
Also with the amulet suggestion, its all about moderation. And the damage state should not get buffed ONTOP of what is the damage as we speak. It should revolve around the whole turret.
Zerker turrets should have less life/armor compared to tanky turrets. So theres an actually distinction between the two and one is not overshadowed by the other.
This way, the only way to do high dps with a turret is to trait for turrets that die quickly or trait for CC with bunker ammy.
1 well placed turret behind a zerg and up on a highground versus you and your team. Wich if you fight equally is unwinnable because of said turrets.
people seem to forget that not all turrets go cap close or far alone, a reall turret engi plants his turrets on zerg points or has communications with there team when an enemy zerg is inbound, for extra support healing CC, you name it.
Turretsteams give you the ability because of there tanky nature to outrotate you faster then you can outrotate them. Because if your rotating correctly between 2 turret engis, You will always have to kill the engi. Or overcommit to capping.
Turrets should definatly require amulets if they ever want to be competetive. “Oh ur running zerk turrets? atleast i can one shot you”.
“Oh your tank turrets? Atleast i wont have to bother with your damage turrets”.
The flaw with turrets is the base stat, wich is too high and too effective. Also the cast time is too high, Because it doesnt just pop CC or DPS, it does it at the same time dependant on where you started to engage from and mutliple times during a fight. At a steady rate of fire at all times. Never missing a beat. Aka AI.
Most posts ive read about ‘howto beat engi’ is considering they dont have a team backing them up or understanding turret placement.
Wich i understand that most people at soloQ do. But at higher ranked play, a turret team knows howto rotate. And because of the tankyness of turret engis and turrets themselves, once they cap a point it takes too long to recapp unless your fully organised and can get the engi before he moves to his target. without engaging in a zerg. at the same time. Wich one some maps is impossible. And due to the sheer “doesnt matter what amulet X is using” Turreteers ussually go full ham on defensive amulets. Making them a perfect target to tank a whole lot of damage with. Combining this with CC turret And they can escape nearly anywhere and leave you on cooldowns.
Turrets are not affected by amulets.
I repeat. Turrets are not affected by amulets.
You can run a super zerk build as a turreteer and still have your healing turret spike for an extreme amount of healing asif your
Rocket turret does zerker damage even if you have a basestat of 0 power.
This is why the turret engineer actually is overpowered at the moment in pvp. There is no changed to how turrets work with various amulets and ussually in most matches you see full bunker turrets setups.
This gives them the strongest multiclass roling there is ingame. This is why they are broken.
Arenanet isnt listening at all to the community this is also why PvP will never become a thing. when 50% of the leaderboard consists of turret engi’s
Turret engi teams, because you know i’d like to play pvp instead of pve.
You can’t talk about “competitive PvP” and then use Skyhammer as your example…
Please elaborate? The idea is to remove skyhammer from unranked. So it gets more competetive. Because as it stands there is literally no point in it being there at all.
There are a few s/f eles who play competitively. The problem with diversity in builds is mostly the playerbase using metabuilds, not that Anet itself is buffing them. Look at DD ele. It was actually nerfed a bit.
If they fix the invis bug faster than the queue bugs then I’m happy.
Ranked isn’t really any difference than Unranked except a leaderboard that is being tested. If you choose Unranked, you know you have the chance to get a map you don’t like. I don’t feel any pressure to warm up before queuing Ranked. The competition isn’t that much better than Unranked.
The player base plays meta builds simply because they are considered the best builds. thats why they are used mostly in the competetive scene. If your trying to make a new build, you will always be at a disadvantage.
All pro teams who actually preform play d/d ele. nothing else. s/f doenst get top ranked.
Invis bug literally kills matchmaking and pvp in generally its the worst kind of bug you could wish for in a competetive enviroment. Anet shoudl at least aknolwedge it.
The thing is, pugs in ranked are terrible. just terrible. they ruin your ranked score. and in general its a stupid call from anet to make unranked 3 out of 7 maps bad maps where there is no reall competition. Skyhammer topping them all.
Ranked is very different, people are ussually fully premade and if you arent you will lose all games.
Go read patch notes from balance patches from last year’s April 15th patch to now. They didn’t balance around meta builds. If they did rangers wouldn’t have been buffed.
Do you think two weeks of an invis bug with a smaller development team trying to identify the source of the coding error is unreasonable? I played AA for a few months, and I’m not sure if they even fixed straight up hacking issues yet let alone bugs in their game and it has been out since August or September. Anet cares about these things whether or not you think they do.
You played Unranked. I rarely play Unranked because I specifically don’t like CY, Skyhammer, or Spiritwatch much. It’s your choice if you play the map or not when you have the option of playing Ranked.
Yes, they made other classes available for play, but they did not fix traits so classes like the elementalist could actually play other stuff except d/d in competetive play. Like i also noted, im not calling out for them for not trying to balance it, its the frequency thats almost non existant. Of said balance. All classes by this time should have allot more creativity and availability in there traitsets.
Second, The entire ordeal with them not communicating is where im comming from, not the entire notion they will never fix it. I am not going to compare it to a mediocre game like AA because i know Anet is better then that. I just showcase how PvP gets the short end of the stick, while any update like SW chestfarming, the devs where noting every day on amber chestfarming and keeping us up to date with it.
There is no option if i dont feel at my 100% competiveness and i want to maintain a solid ranking. Unranked isnt hotjoin, it should be exacly the same as ranked but without messing with scores. Or atleast give us the option to veto certain maps to remove them for good in our unranked matches.
And here’s why you are wrong.
Invis bug is recent and not exactly rampant. I have yet to see and invis person myself. Plus Anet tends to fix those things within weeks once they identify the bug.
Your point about them balancing the game only on meta builds is so far from the truth considering patch notes that it isn’t worth going further.
Skyhammer isn’t in Ranked. So what was your point?
Invis bug has been reported over 2 weeks ago first time on reddit. I have been invisible in a custom PvP game myself a week ago, and when i was playing yesterday i saw an ele going invisible, who gladly had the decency to relog so he would become visible.
The idea of poor communication of them recognising or working on said problem is at fault. The first case shouldve been the last case and Anet shouldve put up stickies everywhere showing they are working on it.
The comment on them not focussing on meta builds has no comments at all except you saying ‘no’. Thats not how you discuss. Thats not how you should try to convince me. I am still forced to go d/d ele if i want to role an ele at all competetively.
Just because skyhammer isnt ranked, should not make you be forced to play it in unranked. its a horrible map, and horrible map design. and should be removed alltogether from the entire game. Untill they fix classes that are clearly favoured.
I play unranked to start my day up, warming up sortof. If i get skyhammer in my first game (wich happened today actually) It stops the entire competetive spirit, and need to even play more. There is no point in it being forced in unranked at all.
The only thing that needs fixing is to make MMR individual. Meaning that winning or losing should not matter in regards to your MMR, only performance should matter. If you are carrying a team where people have no clue on howto play against a team thats mediocre but you can kill them pretty easy in 1v1s for example. I dont understand why they make you lose points if you lose. If you are in essence the better player of the entire game. The only issue with this is. How does it actually calculate you did the best in your group. Because the ingame leaderboard favours roaming decappers more then anything.
Hello dear reader and welcome to,
4 points why guildwars 2 PvP will never sustain growth.
To start things off with, Guildwars 2 is a beautiful game, lovely PvE, And has a few of the most balanced PvP in any MMO out there. With that said let us delve deeper into why exacly i decided to make this post.
I am a PvP guild leader, and i am expressing my concerns here for seeing members just outright quit PvP for some of the descisions Anet has made in the PvP area of the game.
There are, like with allot of games, a few things that are generally unfair and not fun. This is not really an issue. If it was maintained and balanced correctly when something is dominant or when problems arise.
The main reason for why i made this post is to talk and discuss about why there are no frequent balance changes. And even more importantly. Why stuff that is broken will not get fixed eventho theres a huge team behind anet of developers and the likes who could potentially do just that.
Lets get into the meat of things.
The invisible bug.
If such a thing would arise in a gold making scenario, Anet would seize to stop all the ways to abuse said bug, ban people who abused it and shut it down in less then a week. By tweaking and fixing it. Even going as far as to just prevent you from entering the bugged areas (Note the Hall of Monuments bug)
Why is Anet not focussing on or even acknowledging this probem? Any decent developer would atleast notify there community. But as it stands i see massive amounts of people talk about it thinking that its a hack. Wich is simply not true. filing false reports. And even worse, toxifying games and making new people who enter PvP for there first time just outright quit. This is not the way to create a healthy PvP enviroment and it will stop PvP from being seen as a ‘good’ game.
balancing the game.
The game is balanced only on meta builds. Traits have no reall diversity. And if you want to compete with the best, you better get a Meta build because anything thats not close to meta, is not close to challenge. Ofcourse you can tweak a meta build to your liking. But in general theres only synergy between a few traits and a few options to choose from. Reall creativity is not allowed in competetive PvP.
Listening to the community
I have yet to see any competetive spirit not in for trolling, actually like skyhammer. Most games on this map are either hilarious for your team because you rolled the right classes. Or downright frustrating, making you want to destroy a keyboard or 2 because you know you cannot win, you cannot stop it. And there is nothing you can do about it when that one guy who voted skyhammer with his turret engi setup camps the skyhammer. Another problem wich kills the game at any low/medium level of skillplay. Making people leave after they see it happen to them and never look back on PvP. It also promotes disgusting flaming and raging.
Rock papper scissors balance
One thing the devs in the PvP side of things seem to disregard and think is good for balance is the Rock Papper Scissors balance. Some classes just cannot win versus other classes. At all. No matter how big the skillgap is between them. This is not a good trait of a competetive game where you can only play 1 class at a time. And also outright kills the fun for a brunt of players. I understand balancing classes is a daunting task and this might just be the only way howto slowly crawl to a balanced game. But add the entire notion of 1 balance patch every X months. And you now have a game where you will never progress or see improvements against certain classes unless you dedicate your time for a long period of time and actually witnessing the rare occasions where PvP is getting rebalanced.
personal finishing words
I have my personal biases versus Turret engineers and Shatter mesmers. Because any soloqueue or 1v1 with one of the 2 results in a disadvantage for the brunt of classes or even just a straight up unwinnable situation as others (thiefs come in mind versus turret engineers)
Thanks for reading. And i hope Arenanet will change there stance on these 4 points. I as a pretty hardcore PvPer hope my guild can thrive without people raging out or straight up leaving after there first few games losing to unwinnable situations.
Getting gold to convert to gems in order buy cosmetics isn’t horribly grindy or time consuming, at least with the conversion rate during non-peak times.
There’s dungeons and farming, SP-> gold and regular crafting that add up to a decent sum.
Imo, the real sore spot in GW2’s ‘pay2skin’ system is the cost of transmutation. Store bought items should be unlimited usage, as with the Zenith and Celestial/Hellfire skins.
yet as someone pointed out before, you get 25 gold from levelling a new character, It costs 200 gold for 800 gems. that means you need to level 8!!! characters to buy 1 single 800gem purchase in that same time.
If repeating content is boring to you well… GL because there really isn’t much content in this game. You could be done within a couple months easy if your goal was simply to do everything once.
My point is simply that I’m sitting here with a legendary and a growing bank account. If I liquefied all my assets I’d probably be sitting pretty at around 2k gold. I don’t farm for gold, I simply do things that I feel would be fun at the time.
The problem isnt somuch repeating, Its repeating and knowing there will never be other stuff you can be repeating (new worthwile dungeon for this example) They are making this game more and more cassual and i can bet you my ears off they wont make any remotly challenging dungeon at all. Since theyve tested the waters with AB, people didnt do it, too hard, no loot.
The updates, in short, arent repeatable from the LS. Not the same as PreLS repeatable content.
Gold->Gems removes any kind of Pay2Win. Stop complaining go earn your gold, convert it and get your skin. Their system promotes buying gems but you don’t need to. They still need to earn money you know. Geez.
How does it remove pay2win? When all the content for said gold is earned doing monotone farming, aka non fun activities in a so called game.
So running a dungeon 100 times until you get a RNG drop finally is a “fun activity”
while doing the same dungeon maybe 50 times to earn the gold to buy a skin
is stupid farming … do i get that right ?
Not to forget that you can play any other content to earn gold, while for RNG drops
you mostly have to do the exact same content again and again … for me that is
monotonous farming.I havnt touched upon the RNG aspect of all, but i can tell you right now if the dungeon is hard enough and the RNG isnt master of everything (actually drops once every 2/3 runs at end) The game would be allot more fun.
Then go and run the new Twilight Arbor path until you have all the skine .. have fun.
You entirely missed what i was saying then. RNG should be fixed. to put it blunt. Droprates should be way more often for special cool loot, wich can be balanced in other ways, instead of making 1 staff drop every 5000 runs.
So everyone should have everything after 2 weeks, and then leave the game because there is nothing more to do ?
Problem is MMOs needs grind, else everyone has finished it like a singleplayer game
after a short time and moves on to the next game.
And again, you miss the point, like i said in this thread hidden burried deep somewhere by now, The only reall way to make items drop in this current system is RNG. Wich needs a revamp like this;
They could have special area items(like the xanthium from AB in this example), wich could have a 90% chance to be soulbound and a 10% chance to be sellable, for example but has an RNG dropate of 10%, so do the dungeon 5 times have a high probability to get skin but unsellable, if you do the dungeon 50 times however you have a chance at a sellable xanthium. RNG fixed, everyone can have item, Make dungeons harder so they take more time/skill, add same reward system to JP’s, a few achievements wich embodies the gameplay style mode people are playing. And you have a rich dropping system.
The beauty is, you can make an item as desirable as possible by making the unsoulbound RNG super low, But the soulbound RNG super high dependant on the content.
During LS1, it took me 2/3 days to complete the LS, Now it takes me less then an hour. See the problem?
Have you ever heard of the word patience?
If im going to be doing the same things over and over again, wrather be done with it quickly then.
else, well, i might miss the boat on the next item wich releases and is cool wich costs me too much gold, since every loot in this game is only time wasting greens, not actually rewarded with the reward you want , since i dont believe in RNGod.
The problem is once you go for lets say a legendary, you cannot just complete everything once, because that is not profitable, you need to farm the same content youve already done time and time again to even get remotly close to a legendary. And EVERY form of easy content becomes a farm if its done too much.
So give up on hopes of legendary, and buy that other item wich is new, and do ‘fun’ content wich ive done 50 times already atleast for the next item,or do the ‘fun’ content another 250 times and get legendary. geez, it smells like a farm. no other way to look at it.
The only thing that drives this is the LS, since thats ‘new, havnt done that 50 times yet’ content. And even now the LS is mindless farming, and not even sugarcoated but blunt collect X of Y to get a PART of Z.
Also to clarify, Dungeons do not earn money, 3 dungeons earn money. the rest doesnt.
You try to find an Arah P3 party as the same time you are trying to find a CoF1 party.
Strange, I get at least a gold from every dungeon run except story modes. Add in the materials and it’s quite a pretty penny. Now my rate of acquisition will depend on the dungeon but every single dungeon you make money.
Do you understand wasting time? If im working on getting an expensive item, wich would take me 2 months already to complete WITH farming, then doing the same dungeons for 4/5 months would give me about the same without it, If id do PvP for said item it could take me up 8 months.
Worst part is, 4/5 months of doing the SAME dungeons over and over again is a farm in itself wich is definatly not fun or immersive. If the dungeons where actually hard, and youd have some sort of checkpoints with the ‘end’ loot at each checkpoint dungeons would be a lot more fun, and lucrative. But its not they are easy, daily repeatable. and pretty stale if youve done em a few times.
Gold->Gems removes any kind of Pay2Win. Stop complaining go earn your gold, convert it and get your skin. Their system promotes buying gems but you don’t need to. They still need to earn money you know. Geez.
How does it remove pay2win? When all the content for said gold is earned doing monotone farming, aka non fun activities in a so called game.
So running a dungeon 100 times until you get a RNG drop finally is a “fun activity”
while doing the same dungeon maybe 50 times to earn the gold to buy a skin
is stupid farming … do i get that right ?
Not to forget that you can play any other content to earn gold, while for RNG drops
you mostly have to do the exact same content again and again … for me that is
monotonous farming.I havnt touched upon the RNG aspect of all, but i can tell you right now if the dungeon is hard enough and the RNG isnt master of everything (actually drops once every 2/3 runs at end) The game would be allot more fun.
Then go and run the new Twilight Arbor path until you have all the skine .. have fun.
You entirely missed what i was saying then. RNG should be fixed. to put it blunt. Droprates should be way more often for special cool loot, wich can be balanced in other ways, instead of making 1 staff drop every 5000 runs.
They are adding content, but like i originally said 70% of the devs time is spent on the gemstore.
source or gtfo for trolling.
Still waiting. Red post highly preferred.
Well, if you see a gemstore filled with stuff, updated weekly even during holidays putting on sales. And the game itself doesnt even get patched up monthly at a persistant rate. You can even try and do the math yourself!
Now lets talk about the reall ‘endgame’ collections.
It takes me 1500 gold to get an enchanted daily chest in my home instance.
Try to do the math and you will realise farming is the only way you will ever see it.
Either you repeat ALL content ingame about 30 times. for 1 collection. Or farm.