Guild Wars 2

kuritsutian.2987:

Kinda want to add something here… mindless condition cleansing also leads to defeat.
Testing sage noticed how regeneration let me just ignore certain condis such as bleeding, poison and sometimes even burn (if only a single stack). Try it out on a custom room with the aid of a friend on different amulets. There are also some condis that can be ignored under certain conditions (weakness, blind, and low stacks of vulnerability) for chill and burn there’s “Drop, dodge and roll” but need to have in mind that even if you have two rolls available, the skill has 10s cd.

So in short, when fighting a reaper…. keep calm and try to ponder before using a cleanse.

Edit: Also consider using “Ether Renewal” instead of “Wash the Pain Away”, I know we are support, but an alive support is better than a dead one.

Yeah cleanses definatly help with sustaining there DPS. But still the sponge HP is still a tough nut to crack as a low hp ele. Even if you can clear all the condis, you gotta have the dps to actually get it downed, whilst still having enough life to sustain through necros traited downstate attack.

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Browrain.7346:

Ninski.5680:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

Wrong,, pre patch all you had to do was go deathshroud and spam 1 for might stacks, soon as the eles below 90% boon corrupt with condi pressure and watch them melt, most eles especially will waste all their defensives to stay above 90%, so as soon as they drop its even an easier win

Wrong. You were facing bad eles who didn’t know how to manage their cd’s. Good eles didn’t die to necros

This is besides the point guys, thats in the past. We just want a solution for the future.
If people actually want this game to be fun, it needs to be balanced. And theres only Us the community who can make it go smooth or rough.

Im not asking for perfect balance. I think noone is. (we can all dream amiright) But atleast make classes killeable by other classes.

I’m all for balance. I just don’t want to see a bunch of nerf necro threads that lead to them being gutted just like ele. Right now it’s just an unhealthy overbuff overnerf cycle.

Yeah but exacly that is what we are trying to avoid, just like anet is. by healthy discussion and making super clear what works and what doesnt. I feel they just need to try stuff in a quickpaced timeframe. Like change a few numbers, see how that feels for a week, and then change it up again after that, till you hit the sweet spot.

I personally only see reall problems with the current shroud, i feel if stuff gets tweaked at that it might actually be very playable, yet not unwinnable for ele. Tweaks to chilling and maybe healthpool. Try to minimize the impact of the respective role of where necro stands now. But make the ele vs necro matchup more around skill and less about hardcounters.

I personally dont really know what other classes have the same issues with necros so i cant vouch for those. But i just hope itll get looked at from a fair ‘test’ point of view.

Meh if only anet had ‘test’ servers where you could queue games seperate from the main servers for upcomming balance patches so the community could indepth test and anet would be able to fix things on the fly. Or simply test new cool features.

Browrain.7346:

Ninski.5680:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

Wrong,, pre patch all you had to do was go deathshroud and spam 1 for might stacks, soon as the eles below 90% boon corrupt with condi pressure and watch them melt, most eles especially will waste all their defensives to stay above 90%, so as soon as they drop its even an easier win

Wrong. You were facing bad eles who didn’t know how to manage their cd’s. Good eles didn’t die to necros

This is besides the point guys, thats in the past. We just want a solution for the future.
If people actually want this game to be fun, it needs to be balanced. And theres only Us the community who can make it go smooth or rough.

Im not asking for perfect balance. I think noone is. (we can all dream amiright) But atleast make classes killeable by other classes.

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

That got fixed last patch.
So why shouldnt they fix this problem aswell?

This just doesnt make any sense at all.
There is 1 class that can effectively beat necro and thats thief.

We ele have 10k hp on zerker, and even if you blow a full spike (entire weaponskills on c/d) when your min maxed on zerker in pvp, it just makes a reaper go in deathshroud and have over half his life still intact.

This is besides the entire chill idea thats already hardcountering eles since day 1.
And the possibility to do 8k dmgspikes on ele even with a 60k HP pool. Its just absurd.

Necros in shroud have no mobility issues, in shroud they have more then enough access to stability to negate any CC you put on them.

And seeing over half my games are matching me up vs 2 necros this just isnt playable anymore.

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.
If anet really wants necros to hardcounter ele so hard that skill just simply isnt a factor anymore. Please tell me.

Quintoozla.7893:

ErazorZ.5209:

Quintoozla.7893:

ErazorZ.5209:

Hammerguard.9834:

So now we’re comparing a single skill to an entire profession mechanic? And lets just pretend 15k is a thing.

Brilliant. You win thread.

Just to show you how ‘punishing and quickly’ druids die.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HjJwuP5zGo

So tanking uplevels and random pvers shows how OP druid is? Ok

Well it shows they can sustain. Wich is primarely what im trying to get at here.

I think the weakest argument so far is that the AI of the pet is bad, so its ‘ok’ to do berserker damage. Wich is inherently flawed. Its still an NPC that almost does everything by itself damage wise.

Well if you look around on youtube you can see many professions sustaining 1vX in WvW. You can LoS, dodge, interrupt the pet, use blocks, reflects, invuls. The moment you have to watch out for the pet the world ends. Watch leetos video lol. You can clearly see when the druid switches and the paintrain is about to come what does leeto do? Whines how stupid druid is.
Now i agree the dmg could be lower. But making it a gamebreaking, unbeatable thing is absurd.
Anyways as long you dont touch my tiger you can delete bristleback lol.

Yes you are correct on that multiple classes can do just that. Maybe my WvW example wasnt the best. What my intent was to show you guys that druid and tempest currently have the highest sustain in the game in regards to pvp.

If ele’s elemental elite did the same damage as brisstle you too would get your jimmies brisstled.

Quintoozla.7893:

ErazorZ.5209:

Hammerguard.9834:

So now we’re comparing a single skill to an entire profession mechanic? And lets just pretend 15k is a thing.

Brilliant. You win thread.

Just to show you how ‘punishing and quickly’ druids die.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HjJwuP5zGo

So tanking uplevels and random pvers shows how OP druid is? Ok

Well it shows they can sustain. Wich is primarely what im trying to get at here.

I think the weakest argument so far is that the AI of the pet is bad, so its ‘ok’ to do berserker damage. Wich is inherently flawed. Its still an NPC that almost does everything by itself damage wise.

Hammerguard.9834:

So now we’re comparing a single skill to an entire profession mechanic? And lets just pretend 15k is a thing.

Brilliant. You win thread.

Just to show you how ‘punishing and quickly’ druids die.

Hammerguard.9834:

ErazorZ.5209:

Hammerguard.9834:

Bristlebacks sacrifice any form of utility to do the damage they do. That’s literally all they do is damage. The risk is that a Bristleback isn’t going to drop a smokefield, a massive AoE fear, or a knockdown to help the Ranger when they’re in trouble. That’s the risk. Just because you’re too narrow minded to see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

The risk is nonexistant if you are a druid actively using your skills. Because i think most people realise by now, what druids are especially good at. And its not dying.

A druid is only good at surviving because they’re able to CC the damage dealing targets. Something they can’t do in team fights. Hence they’re good at 1v1s. Does that mean they’re “good at not dying?” No. It means they’re good at lowering a single targets pressure. Druids are literally one of the easiest targets to lockdown and kill in this meta.

Well i was reffering to the sustain of druids. You cant tell me they dont have the sustain to hold a point. And exacly thats why the pet damage is too high.

Its like your running a bunker build, yet you do berserker damage via your pet. It should be normalized and the pet should do less damage. The best part is, if the pet dies and the druid didnt pay attention, he can still bunker a point for a very long time. The pet just makes it so someone will die, and to be frank with that dps, it definatly wont be the sustaining druid.

Im just gonna post this video and let you be the judge.

Hammerguard.9834:

Bristlebacks sacrifice any form of utility to do the damage they do. That’s literally all they do is damage. The risk is that a Bristleback isn’t going to drop a smokefield, a massive AoE fear, or a knockdown to help the Ranger when they’re in trouble. That’s the risk. Just because you’re too narrow minded to see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

The risk is nonexistant if you are a druid actively using your skills. Because i think most people realise by now, what druids are especially good at. And its not dying.

Well seeing there are bigger issues in gw2 atm, i wouldnt mind if they skip this single bug for the time being.

Hammerguard.9834:

ErazorZ.5209:

are you saying AI focussed builds should be playable in a ‘competetive’ pvp game? A pet should bring utility NOT damage.

What kind of sick arbitrary crap rule is that? There’s nothing wrong with a pet being taken for more damage. Bristlebacks have easily avoided, interruptible burst damage every 15 seconds with a very telegraphed animation. If you get caught in a combo, you deserve to be hurt for it. If you don’t have half a brain to notice the pet, you deserve to be hurt for it.

This isnt about being able to counter it. This is about you being lazy and instead of doing the work on killing someone off, you let your AI do it for no effort. I remember Rythlock saying in HoT story ‘no risk no reward’.

You are literally asking for ‘no risk high reward’.

So please get reall and understand a good competetive game doesnt allow AI to do the ‘hardwork’ for you!

Wolfric.9380:

The problem is 90% in the fire/air/autoattacks. And i think buffing them is feared. Making strong autoattacks when waiting on overload could actually generate a good ranged weapon …..

I just dont understand why. Lol. Isnt ele supposed to be either a jack of all trades, or a high skill high reward class?

I currently feel for the high skill i require, i only get moderate at best damage off. When current meta class can spike 8k every 4 seconds by pressing a single button and having more survival and range then me.. well i dont know…

The only reason why i still play s/f is because i enjoy the playstyle. Right now versus the meta its literally not worth playing anymore. Due to bunkers doing higher spike damage then me. And marauder/berserker users having about 3 times more sustain then me >.>

Hello people,

I’m just making this thread to get some actuall indepth information on how and why some MMR leagues are more prone to RNG then others. And why leagues in my opinion are broken atm.

The thing is, i need you, and your experiences, in what leagues your residing and how easy/hard matches are.

Ill post my own experiences as an example;

Im currently in emerald, im in emerald because ive played maybe 30/40 games intotal this season, i started playing pvp a bit more since last week, after the balance patch update teaser got posted.

Currently i am facing a dilemma, And i think MMR is to blame for that including the league system.

Seeing as im emerald, you would think my games would be easy, wich in fact they are, 50% of the time. Every time i lose i face a really easy team wich are easily beat with simple rotations between cap points. (also note there are almost no meta classes)

(as an example at wich level im currently playing, this happens almost every game at forest of nifflehell). most of my teammates and enemies think killing svanir at the very start is a good strategy, wich it obviously is not, seeing you only have 5 ppl per team and if one commits svanir from your side, and noone does from the other side, you will lose mid in a 3v4 scenario. Whilst holding mid for 25 seconds gives you the same advantage + it stops your enemy from gaining the points if it was capped.

In my opinion this is basic 101 understanding of maps, in my current league it isnt… well 50% of the time.

So what happens if i win then? I havent really paid attention about full teams or not, but generally speaking, they do know the 101 of forest. They understand going 4 at mid is a basic strategy that works versus those who dont know strategy or teamplays. (also note 3/4 classes at the very least are playing meta classes)

This seems consistant. Every game i play after a loss, i play versus people who rush svanir. Every game after i win, the enemy seems to always go mid and understand that capping svanir will make you lose points/games.

Forest seems to be picked roughly 70% of my games. Just something ive noticed at my league tier. It gets picked more frequent after i lose a game. And less frequant if i win a game.

Now lets talk about RNG. With RNG i simply mean to say, that random teammates are random. Obviously. But this also means random teammates, might not know english, might not be interested to communicate with your team. Hell, might start flaming you for talking about a strategy pre-game. (you would be surprised how often this happens to me) If my team listens, communicates well, (every member that is) then i got the RNG jackpot. Teams like that in emerald are so rare that i would not hesitate to say only 10% of my current games involve people who communicate. This is a problem, as a teambased game.

This eventually leads down to me requiring to carry teams that dont communicate, I dont mind carrying, but if the enemy team understands the required communications better then my team does. Then carrying can only go so far. And losing mid is not something uncommon. (example, i got far, vs team that understands communications they will +1 me and i will need to be required to kite 2v1. Wich in turn leads me to run away and unable to cap said point. In a game with no communication this also ussually leads to my entire team dripping to mid 1 by 1 dying by the meatgrinder (this happens allot more often with DH trappers) Even if i keep 2 people at far.

I have had some success with a premade team this morning, simply because we all communicated, We lost games because the enemy ussually overpowered us by having more elite specs then us, we won games because we had good communication and rotations where on point.

Currently im stuck in emerald and dont even feel like trying anymore, I play a tempest s/f build and generally speaking im able to 1v1 everything except the tier 1 meta classes. i win about 70% 1v1 versus non meta specs at far, when facing elite spec i win 20/30% at far.

My teams seems to die most against compositions revolving DH trapper and Rev meta. The more enemy guards and revs i see from the opposing team, the more i know i will not win this game. (If im in game i ussually try ofcourse to get those points as high as possible but i digress).

So what are your experiences in your leagues atm? Is this just happening in emerald? Or is it all over the board?

Astralporing.1957:

Cynz.9437:

OK, imagine you fight thief. That thief has ability to split in 2, both of his version do same damage and are extremely hard to kill. Balanced?

Not sure how is this relevant, since this case is nothing like that at all.
Bunker druids do not do much damage on their own, and bristlebacks definitely aren’t “extremely hard to kill”. Not even close.

Cynz.9437:

Here is issue as stated before: ranger pet doesn’t scale with ranger stats hence why we have bunker druids with unkillable machine gun pets.

If you think those pets are unkillable, you are having a completely different issue. One that has nothing to do with rangers, druids or their pets at all.

are you saying AI focussed builds should be playable in a ‘competetive’ pvp game? A pet should bring utility NOT damage.

I agree bristtleback is broken. They will be required to nerf it anyways. I know its allot of fun rangers, having an AI do the same dmg as you, but its not fair.

Well ive been watching my combat log today a bit, and seeing warriors be able to spike 9k damage twice within a second, Seeing revenant do 8K damage crits. Trueshot from DH do 8k dmg. traps do 9k dmg.

I can say that my 2k spikes of instant cast s/f really is very very bad. (note im currently running a FULL s/f glass build)

I figured the preview was literally a preview and we would get more love for scepter tbh. If this is all of the reworks im sad.

Ragion.2831:

When is it going to be released, this tuesday?

The 26th so yes.

But i wonder about the community backlash. I mean think about it, its going to be introduced regardless in that state. Wheter they first put a patch note with all changes or not. If theres a backlash from the community, you wont avoid it that way. Lol.

Hello dear reader,

I come to you today to suggest something that has been bugging me for quite a while.

Why would Arena.net not post a preview balance patch before it hits? So people can start theorycrafting and anet can try to fix the biggest complaints thatll be incomming post-patch?

Sure, you might say it would be useless unless you play it. And allot of people will complain about stuff thats potentially brilliant. But as an avid theorycrafter myself, i know how valuable this information can be.

Generally speaking Arena.net likes to have there preview blog posts. Where half of the new balancing acts are portrayed upon. Like a teaser, but no actuall information to what might become good or not.

I have seen it allot that most posted balance changes seem too good to be true, but then at the very last seconds and itterations, they manage to royally break something, that seemed like a small buff or nerf, but generally changes the entire game and meta.

So here i am trying to ask you arena.net. Why not follow through on your first itteration of a preview to showcasing the entire balance patch a day before it lands?

To me it would give me the insights on what might be playable, People could start tinkering builds overnight because the patch hasnt hit yet, wich would result in a far more indepth build. Wich could literally make the ‘new’ meta appear from day one. Due to the thought that went into it.

I personally would like this very much. Seeing as when the patch arrives i’d want to queue up as soon as possible, because yes, im excited about it.

Just food for thought. Gimme your ideas on what you’d think about this.

Im currently using arcana in pvp. with s/f Thats all im gonna say Its really strong. but very hard to play.

Personally the only things i will probably have reall issues with are the thief and necro.

My current build is built for this patch. Thats all im gonna say about that.
Ive been running it in the current meta my s/f marauder, it underperforms obviously, but this patch will be exacly what i need. no bunkers.

Active uptime of kiting., high risk high reward.

Venomshare tho.. unblockable in my eyes is a bit too much tho.
But thats all im gonna say about that!

As a S/F fresh air elementalist main, ofcourse im extatic about the reveal.
But it goes beyond that.

A few days ago i had a talk with some people about bunker amulet, celestial.
They did it.

They not only buffed fresh air. But they removed the biggest blockades to a genuine skillfull game.

I thank you, guys at the balance desk for your hard work. This is utter brilliance.
I really am stoked and will be counting the days till it hits.

Thank you arenanet. To be frank i didnt think id ever write this. But this is literally, to me, the best thing that has ever happened with a patch in any game ive played so far.

Keep up the good work!

Seriously?
So first they nerf dungeons, nerf fractals, then combine the two rewards and give those out on a weekly basis(instead of daily) locked behind ‘challenged hard to overcome’ content.

Raids are not worth it.

If your busy trying to even complete a raid it should be hard enough to keep you busy ‘practising’ for atleast 40 hours before you finish it.

40 hours for a 10G (max) reward filled with RNG and weekly capped like guild missions are?

This is a joke. Challenging content should give you more then anything currently in the game if you overcome it in terms of gold per hour, not less then farming. Ever.

Raiding should be a feat and give you the wealth for mastering the endgame.

Either its puggable and super easy and thats why the rewards are so lackluster.
Or its actually hard, but definatly not worth the time investment from a gold/hour perspective.

Rewards team, i ask you, do you want people to have fun playing or should everything become a chore/grind for skins?

Yes the warhorn you where correct when you clicked

I tested it out just now, variants and different builds, sigils everything.

Either it doesnt have any sustain and literally dies faster then any sort of elementalist could ever die. (This is an achievement seeing ele is the most glassy of glasscannons because of the lack of active defenses)

The cooldowns are pretty much all 30 seconds, all (this is just too lazy if you ask me)

The only ‘use’ its supposed to have is boonsharing, but when your fully focussed on boonsharing, you are only dragging your party down. Especially seeing 30 seconds cooldown on both of the boonshares means you actually wont be boonsharing at all.

No active defenses as the most glassy class there is.

No impactfull skills besides the boonsharing.

Nothing new to the table.

And last, the entire synergy of warhorn.
It has no synergy. All the skills are randomly thought up skills that have no reall combo useage, just really lousy skills that are literally ‘filler content’ for your boonshares to come back up from there immense cooldowns.

Cast times, Any cast time on this weapon is bad. because the abilities are bad, high c/d with no reall damage.

PvE: Staff does WAY more damage with more survivability, lower cooldowns and actuall range. When its already considered the slowest weapon ele has access to.

PvP: boonsharing has no uses at all at that interval. No active defenses, No high offense. It brings nothing different just worse stuff. Its like teaching a berserker using staff elementalist that its not a viable build to go full damage with no defenses at all in PvP.

WvW: (where the weapon is meant to shine) If you goto the frontlines with something that has no active defenses your dead, you will be forced to be a boonbot wich cant even keep boons up because you dont have the sustain, or the recharges available to permanently keep doing that. The boons ele has access to are mediocre and your forced to wait out when stacked as a party to boon up, to actually take full advantage of your boonshares.

Long story short, you are literally food. You give slight buffs but nothing drastically changing the field of battle. with no reall added benefits.

My take on how it will make anything change;

You will use a warhorn before you engage, then you swap to a good weapon after youve bursted all your boonshares.

Mesmer is OP.

-Signed S/F (yes marauder using) fresh air elementalist.

Why? Well i cant just make a claim like that without any personal experiences can i?

As you have stated stealth literally one shots marauder using proffesions. This alone shows there is no reall dynamics going on between a mesmer and a marauder using proffesion because the mesmer just needs to hit his buttons correctly with no counterplays possible. In a competetive game this is not about being more skillfull then your opponent, but hitting an unstoppable combo 1 shotting someone.

This forces people to not play marauder on any class if theyr facing mesmers in multitude or even 1v1ing on point. This is bad. This causes stagnation.

Survival wise. I have seen multiple 1v1 dueling mesmers who focus on duels that literally have an impenetrable rotation. With dazes invurns teleports and a lazerpoint focus on dodgerolls to mitigate the remaining damage before he can do the rotate again. Whilst every daze that hits, opens up a potential burst from the mesmer. And the only openings you get are dodging the key dazes to do some counter damage wich are just not enough to burst down the mesmer intime since they dont have the lowest health.

What i ussually talk about when discussing mesmers is bringing up my own playstyle, fresh air.

If i compare the defences of a mesmer to the defences of fresh air, mesmer beats fresh air hands down. You could say stealth alone makes this possible. But in reality its the option to 1 shot spike a marauder class in a second. Versus the 4 second invurnerable an ele has access to on focus (when traited) on 33sec. The only other sustain fresh air has is blind spam. See the difference in utility? Fresh air has a lower base healthpool added to that. If i compare the cooldowns and active defences of a mesmer versus a fresh air you could say fresh air has an uptime of 70/80% defences, mesmer has close to 90%+ If traited.

If mesmer would have a delay ,inbetween skills, cast time on the burst the entire idea of instant spiking from stealth would be fixed. Because counterplays are possible. Just like thiefs are in atm, They burst a rediculous amount from stealth versus marauder, but if you react before the next finishing blow hits, you can blind him and force him to back off with your own spike because he has low health unlike mesmer.

Damagewise, sustain and raw burst DPS is around 30% higher then scepter fresh air.

If you want people like me (s/f QQ eles) to stop QQ, get an actuall scepter buff in for us, i know with our powers combined as the mages of gw2 we could make the world tremble. But as it stands now fighting a mesmer 1v1 as a fresh air is simply unfair.

Master? That depends on your definition of mastery.

Do you mean master the meta build? Then engi.
Do you mean master every build the class owns? Then its ele.

SamTheGuardian.2938:

RevanCorana.8942:

This is a much more suited name for this game

Power Warrior:
double ignore pain every min – immune to damage for 5 sec x 2
3 sec block every 20 sec
Rampage (unkillable faceroller that touch you once, you ded)

Power Engi:
double elixir S every min – immune to everything for 3 sec x 2
3 sec block every 16 sec
5 sec stealth every 50 sec
AOE spam
Rampage 1/2 the time

Power Mesmer:
kittenload of stealth even post nerf
Blink, 30sec cooldown
3 sec rooted invulnerability every 12 sec with sword
1-3 sec invulnerability every 50 sec
Ok portals are fun

Starting to see a pattern here…
block block block
blind blind blind
invuln invuln invuln
baa baa baa
meh meh meh

Anyone knows where is the action based mmo?

You forgot to mention Burn Burst Guardian or Survival ranger after Heal As One boost… It’s almost as if all the classes are OP when given the right buildout, which of course means none of them are really OP given a team where everyone is skilled and can play an optimal build for their class and team objectives.

The community will always find the must optimal build for playing a specific role with a specific class. It’s natural selection or what we call meta. If a class can only play one role does that mean it’s unbalanced? I don’t think so. You can always take a vacation from PvP and go run any build you want in PvE, right?

I definatly tend to see that as unbalanced.
If class A has 10 variations on builds wich all succeed.
And if class B has only 1.

Class A is always at the advantage during the start of a game since class B has to figure out what class A is playing, whilst that is not holding true vice versa so the first burst from class A can be way better calculated seeing what uptime defenses and what cooldowns he needs to proc from the getgo.

Second point, if you like playing a certain alternative way and it gets nerfed because of the ‘Metabuild’ being considered overpowered, pidgeonholing you to play meta on that class because the other options went from ‘kind of okay’ to ‘maybe in pug-pve but definatly not in PvP’ then thats decreasing diversity and playstyles.

Third point, creativity! If a class can only play 1 build that ussually means the rest of the traits are not good enough and you are forced to play a certain way. You cannot tinker about new cool builds, it will stagnate.

I am a scepter/focus fresh air elementalist and i am disgusted that mesmers have way more survival and a higher burst in comparison to broken weaponskills (shatterstone comes to mind) and less health with no reall added benefits at all.

Mesmer is just allround better then fresh air. And call me out on it, but thats just imbalanced.

I wanted to make this post to see exacly what people are fearing for buying the expansion before/when HoT releases. And what would sway them to do otherwise.

This is my list;

-Fear of not enough ‘fun to do’ content. Where mostly youll just grind events with no interesting unique ways to play, just allot of “kill X mobs event with zergs”

-Fear of raids not being fun enough to do, after having seen some streamers raid, The content looks challenging, but it feels like the combat system isnt being used at all, just ‘steps’ to complete content and then press autoattack and burst button. (this might be wrong if i just happened to have seen the wrong streamer tho. And it might generally be too early to tell.)

-Fear of generally speaking stalemates of months with no events like we’ve had untill now untill HoT releases. And most of the content is cleared very quickly like the core game is.

-My main proffesion Elementalist seeing heavy nerfs around the board whilst not getting a sword elite spec (Yes this is also on the list because i hate warhorn as a weapon, the aesthetic, the way its used/has been used in the past. And the tempest being a support aswell as its predecesor)

-P2W. Asin people who own the core game are actually all just playing a free trial, untill they upgrade to HoT. Where elite specs are stronger in PvP(chronomancers shatter build is a good example). Objectives in WvW are super important but cant be used by core game owners. In general feeling weaker then the rest because you didnt buy the expansion.

What would make me buy the expansion.

-Seeing raids are worthwhile, not just cleaving but actuall requirments of individual skill and mastery of the proffesion you are currently playing (Like being forced to bring allot X class for a raid because he needs to clear something on his own, idk something like it. lol). Not just do X at Y time with the entire group at the same time.

-Reducing the Zerg aspect of the expansion. I personally feel zerg content doesnt really immerse me at all, running like a train over everything very goal orientated. It gives me the feeling im forced to play to be the fastest very technical. Doesnt feel like im actually playing the character in the world of Tyria.

-News about Elite specs being added frequently after the innitial launch

-Diversity in elite specs vs core specs. I dont mind buying the expansion, but if im going to be forced to play elite specs everywhere from the challenging group content to PvP because its more effective, gating me into something i might not enjoy to play, then thats a dealbreaker for me.

-Frequent balance patches! Yes! This has been on the top of my list for quite some time. Everytime something good happens in a balance patch i purchase some gems to encourage it. Im afraid i wont really make the income graphs change by myself. But atleast i feel good about giving my money to where hard work was due!

savacli.8172:

Thanks for stopping by! Please leave all your gear and items in the donation pile so we can distribute it across the remaining members of this community.

That kitten is reserved for PvE. Just quiting PvP again.

Vigor removal and buffing skills that you could even walk out from when crippled or LoS.

So what you are literally doing is giving anything BUT d/d cele an extreme nerf, by removing survivability on a low armor low defence class.

Just so you can give a slight nerf to cele wich probably doesnt even do much with all the vigor utility they have.

You just killed any and all dps an ele could ever play with. And you dont even realise it.

Flamestrike and shatterstone needed a REWORK, because they are just inherently BAD skills with 0% chance of hitting anyone who knows howto WALK (note not even dodge) or LoS. They are wayyy too slow.

So no more PvP for me i guess.

Can we please get it back. Revert the nerf and normalize it.

Give it back its Stunbreak properties like the other classes teleports have.

Also thanks for the scepter, i hope itll be good, cuz then ill be a shining beacon of positivity in these forums.

So far everything, but, the vigor nerf seems pretty good unlike some balance patches.
Im not sure how strong engis will be, because i have a feeling they will be kind of broken with all the said buffs. But who knows.

Its a shame that i uninstalled right before my 3rd bday. Thanks allot tempest. Srsly.

Hah, Already uninstalled.

No seriously, i did. The only thing tempest will be good at is making a d/d cele tempest have even more sustain. People will cry ‘OP’ because of 1 build (like they are right now with current d/d ele) And anet will do exacly like how they did in the past, nerf it to oblivion.

And im done with this dragging on constantly with massive disapoinments
everywhere.

From no challenging vanilla content (wich is only questionable if itll be in the exp). SAB, No updates so no reall content for almost a year. The big ‘overhaul patch’ Wich made PvP twitchy like CoD. Mesmers in general wich havent gotten hit a single balance patch so far. S/F fresh air is dead due to patch forcing every pvp ele to play with atleast a dagger.
Scepter and the way anet is managing it.

And ofcourse, the tempest the biggest failure of anet yet. Its the ultimate anti christ for me.
A) either they actually make it better then the current ele and theres a HUGE pay2win aspect combined with it. Because theyr literally making ele better (note not changing, better), If you buy the expansion.
B) It sucks so hard its not even funny anymore at every roll its supposed to be played at.

B) is so far is where my money is at. Looking at the warhorn the only viable amulet in pvp MUST BE cele or even tankier. Because anet has no clue why everyone on ele goes cele cantrips apparently. (its not because its the best out of a bunch of options, its because its the only actuall viable way to play ele in pvp because you know, without it you have no sustain, no movement, no active defenses, light armor wearer, AND lowest healthpool all in one neatly tied package of extremely high defensive c/d skills.)

I will roam the forums from time to time to see if they finally get some sanity and rework it entirely, or just put someone else other then mr karl on the job.

Saturn.6591:

How can (or at least could) Warriors have huge burst, heavy armor and biggest healthpool, combined with ridiculous passive healing, immunities, tons of cc, and lots of condi-cleansing and mobility? All at once?

Can anyone explain? Ty

;P

Well, close range, easily dodged telegraphed skills pretty much sums that up? Currently however that already got fixed so…

Just as my title reads. How can one of the biggest bursting classes with being extremely slippery, still have medium healthpools?

Can anyone explain? Ty

Aidan Eighthrain.8612:

You forgot the tinfoil hat tag.

More seriously, since the 06/23 Patch & the Vigor nerf, Arcana became more than optional in sPvP. Water however is still a must.

The real problem for sustain is that people keep using Celestial (which got nerfed) over Soldier and do not take Burning Fire to counter the condi builds.

The problem for D/D damage can be fixed by using Fresh Air.

Give it a try :

http://intothemists.com/guides/5552-dd_truely_fresh_air

Lets face it, that build is just gimping yourself to play same old same old d/d. And really gives no reall extra utility then what we already know.

And about staff, The problem with celestial is and will always be with staff, that your damage output takes extreme hits, meaning you are forcing yourself to not do any damage, wich in turn solidifies my point about general 1v1’s, sure you can sustain and run(dependant on what class your faceing), but effectively you arent able to carry or kill any decent player who doesnt run into your aoe’s.

If your entire team is focussed around the staff support, sure it might work. But requiring a full team to play a different style for you is not only a niche in itself, it diminished actually DPS. And truth be told, if you play a staff in soloQ, your an absolute liability and relly more on your teammates to know there stuff then you actually being good.

What my main complaint is, if you really want to be able to actually create your own builds, your still gutted in the same old same old, wich effectively means you cannot make your own builds, because you are forced to always take into consideration that you require a hell of a lot of defensive traits/runes to even be remotely effective.

Most traits are no brainers because some are horrible UP compared to the choices you have. Wich in turn makes allot of creative builds pretty much useless. (think playing arcanist spiking/auramancing/glass cannons with survivability)

Before the patch i played my own S/F ele build, wich is impossible now, ive been tinkering about s/d ele aswell, but it simply feels there is just not enough support, The only way to play it now is literally going glass cannon yolo zerk mode. And that just doesnt work.

Where arcana and water are the must have for any PvP build. And if you dont run atleast 1 dagger you stand no chance at all.

With the entire notion that anet wanted to remove elemental attunement, easily the only reason why an ele even has a role in PvP. Effectively showing the ele community anet really doesnt understand what an ele is about at all.

Lets put this in perspective if a dev would ever read this.

Why does an elementalist require water and arcana?
Survivability/sustain. Without any form of healing, the lowest health spellcaster with the least options to sustain at baseline and a light armor wearer. It is a requirment.

What happens when you dont run either water or arcana?
Your build instantly becomes a 1 trick pony with no reall options to sustain. Even if you go full in defensive runes, sigils and amulets. You do not have any tricks up your sleave and you cannot easily disengage combat. So effectively forcing you to making yourself a glass cannon wich dies to anything if it misses its big spikes.

Build diversity for an elementalist is at an all time low. Scepter has no role in the game anymore. Why?

Because of several issues, but the biggest is sustain, Wich has always been the case, wich is why if you’d run a scepter, you’d be forced to run a focus, because of earth 5. Also the lack of condition damage compared to mainhand dagger. And no way to effectively spike someone down on a relative low cooldown. Plus mobility issues and a ton more.

What about staff?
Staff is a dedicated team support. But any game mode where your required to rotate, teamsupport falls flat if it doesnt have any other tricks up its sleeve let alone no reall mobility (no High hp + light armor and almost no damage comes to mind here wich effectively means if you get 2v1’d or attacked before you even reach your teammates your effectively useless especially in a zerk meta, because you cannot sustain a team if they die in a few sec because of extreme spikes. Let alone if you get focussed and die because of extreme spikes.)

This is my opinion currently about the state of the elementalist in PvP. Please discuss in an insightfull argumentative manner. Thank you.

No sustain damage doesnt work with the blast on heal either. Since the heal has got its effectiveness increased by tons due to blast finisher on dodgeroll.

I agree with the fact that they need a nerf.

Currently due to the balance patch the game got allot more fast paced. But it seems engi’s internal invurn’s/blocks + healing turret and a tanky build can still dish out berserking spike damage due to traits whilst having unmatched sustain if you dont ‘screw up’ (aka do your rotations correctly.) by having constant blocks available, a few dodges versus ‘key’ spikes and a healing turret if the auto attack is wearing you down/you hit a big spike.

Im not sure where the sustain exacly comes from, but if im correct engineers now have a blast finisher on dodgeroll right? And healing turret gives you the biggest healing field ingame, not hard to miss blasting that.

Im not sure what the high damage spike exacly is, but if i lose half my health from a single attack and cant break through like i would versus a warrior. Stuff is pretty broken.

Also im talking about sPvP asfar as ive seen.

The thing is currently there is no reall ‘challenging’ content at all.

Literally nothing.

Why do i say that?

Because if anything ingame currently is done by a tight group of people who all know howto play the content, it will be extremely easy, save for TT, wich if everyone knows what to do is also extremely easy.

The only reason why content currently in guildwars 2 ‘seems’ hard to some people is because of random people joining who have never done it, and have no clue what the entire fight is about. You can see this in all current open world content, from vinewrath to tequatl, there only needs to be a few afking or unwilling to listen and they could screw the fight up big time, or make it way harder then it should be (no dps gear)

This is because of an open world scenario, wich kills skillfull telegraphed bossfights, and instead forces you to spam 1 instead. Because how else are cassuals going to get ‘through’ the content. I did TT without TS, on an organised group following a commander spamming 1 on targets. Really really easy, if you have enough dps.

instanced raiding is something i have never done in any game at all. But it would definatly be a huge boon for guildwars2. (something ive always dreamed gw1 would have, 20 man dungeons who need to be highly skilled and organised for cool loot) Even if its not geargrind. Why couldnt there be a few nice extra skins, a title, maybe a mini of the endboss as special rewards for people who manage it?

in the end raiding is nothing more then playing a dungeon with a big group of people who are organised.

Since its instanced, i really have no clue why people wouldnt want that, since they could just skip it. With the current mechanics guildwars 2 combat currenlty has it could really be a very cool run for its money. Aslong as its hard enough that even getting passed the ‘mid tier’ bosses is an achievement on itself.

Exciton.8942:

ErazorZ.5209:

Brigg.6189:

Main thing is that this game is not balanced/designed for 1v1, it’s balanced for 5v5 conquest. There’s super cheesy specs in 1v1s, and builds that just can’t be killed 1v1.

If you really want to subject yourself to that, there’s numerous custom arena dueling servers.

The thing is, the game isnt even balanced for 5v5 (everyone is forced to play meta or play from a disadvantage). Since most engages happen in a 1-1-1 points scenario + roamers, your doomed to fight 1v1 at some point. So your 5v5 balance argument doesnt cut it.

And also…

The 5 versus 5 approach doesnt work in the current system since it rarely happens in actuall competetive games. And if it happens they either, rush, get a lead and spread out to take the remaining objectives after whiping an opponents team. Or they lose a lead versus an opponents team and are at a disadvantage. And will need to spread out to retake the objectives.

So in a sense they are making the game contradictory to its ‘core’ map-principles. If it was a 5v5 balance.

Also i noted that the custom arena 1v1 thing doesnt allow for smooth matchmaking, your forced to spam the ‘join’ button to get in a 1v1 in the duel arena’s since there is literally no options for actuall ‘queuing’ in a game. We need a QoL improvement in that sense for that.

Yes. There will be 1v1 situation in 5v5 game. But it is up to your rotation strategy to create favorable 1v1. You can also do something in an unfavorable 1v1, trying to get the most out of it. There is so much dynamic element in a 5v5. Dueling can be fun at times but will never become a competitive game mode.

Rotational strategies are never reliable, since this is one of the core problems i was talking about. You need a fully optimized fully TS kitted organised team to even get close to rotational strategies. You already dismissed the brunt of the playerbase with just this alone because they wont play in fully optimized teams, most people dont play with teamspeak, let alone be organised at all.

If youve ever tried to make a PvP guild youd understand that getting members is nigh impossible. Since most people already have there set groups who are even actively playing. And only want you if you fit the ‘metaclass’ group they are building with the skillsets to actually play at there level. instantly. (i have yet to find a good dedicated shoutbow, wich is required for competetive play, after 3 months of recruiting)

As a newcomer your completely excluded from the game itself and forces you to do the ‘rest’ of pvp. Aka SoloQ and practise hell, wich will never trully learn you howto do rotational plays let alone understand the underlying strategizing part about it.

Dueling is essentially the one thing of true Player versus Player interaction. A pure battle of actuall skill, how a competetive game should be. Yes, only the best will stay alive wich is at the heart of competive play, not the people who put a team together of randoms hop on ts for a huge lead gained only from communications and teamwork where skill is mostly neglected versus the lesser organised. Most solo people i meet in practise literally dont even understand objectives but just want to kill people. Added to that allot of people are actually requesting dueling, 2v2’s 3v3’s.

They are not requesting a 5 man unorganised group who scrambles to even stay alive long enough to even mark a small point difference versus an organised group.

So now, tell me, how is your dynamic playing panning out for you if you dont even have an organised team, let alone TS. Let alone know howto play? Its out of reach and worst of all forced ‘balanced’.

Added to that. The current dueling arenas do showcase reall skill with set rules made by the community, because they all see potential in it being viable or want a heads up brawl of pure skill. Its a shame there is literally no involvement at all from anet for this.

Lord Kuru.3685:

WhiteCrow.5310:

And for the off chance any Anet developer reads this, I think I understand your attitudes a little bit more now. The predominating thought many of you have is that we’re playing the game wrong, or we’re using mechanics the wrong way. That we haven’t figured out how to react to “perceived imbalances”.

This is probably the biggest issue with the game. The devs have an idea of how the game should be played and refuse to accept that players feel differently.

You can see their attempts at forcing players toward their vision. Just look at the new trait system where the devs are basically creating builds for the players as opposed to creating interesting traits and letting players create builds.

Yep, killing diversity, what guildwars1 pvp was all about. Making mass cookie cutter builds that anyone can use.

Bleh no wonder PvP is in such a stalemate after every balance patch.

Brigg.6189:

Main thing is that this game is not balanced/designed for 1v1, it’s balanced for 5v5 conquest. There’s super cheesy specs in 1v1s, and builds that just can’t be killed 1v1.

If you really want to subject yourself to that, there’s numerous custom arena dueling servers.

The thing is, the game isnt even balanced for 5v5 (everyone is forced to play meta or play from a disadvantage). Since most engages happen in a 1-1-1 points scenario + roamers, your doomed to fight 1v1 at some point. So your 5v5 balance argument doesnt cut it.

And also…

The 5 versus 5 approach doesnt work in the current system since it rarely happens in actuall competetive games. And if it happens they either, rush, get a lead and spread out to take the remaining objectives after whiping an opponents team. Or they lose a lead versus an opponents team and are at a disadvantage. And will need to spread out to retake the objectives.

So in a sense they are making the game contradictory to its ‘core’ map-principles. If it was a 5v5 balance.

Also i noted that the custom arena 1v1 thing doesnt allow for smooth matchmaking, your forced to spam the ‘join’ button to get in a 1v1 in the duel arena’s since there is literally no options for actuall ‘queuing’ in a game. We need a QoL improvement in that sense for that.

Login.5102:

Drennon.7190:

Vee Wee, why in the kitten do you still post here? I thought you quit this game, QQ, etc etc. Is your life really that dull that you need to post daily on a forum for a game that you quit/hate.

Meh i understand where hes coming from.

He probably played 10,000 + hours like me and a lot of beta players.

When you put that much time into something because of the potential(even if your on a break), you still feel very connected to it. When HoT is released, maybe a large amount PvP improvements will be implemented.

And maybe all those hours won’t be wasted…..Theres a chance? there is a chance..right guys?

:[

The only chance is to get vocal about it, and rally everyone who feels this way to the forums. So anet understands eventho its a minority. That minority is severely hurting eventho it could grow allot bigger. (not saying esports level, but who knows if everything is done well..)

Sagat.3285:

ErazorZ.5209:

Sagat.3285:

Do you have backup shields?

Could you clarify what you mean with this? lol.

Oh i am well prepared, i also wonder what kind of people are against player versus player combat.

Ofcourse some people enjoy objectives but that shouldnt mean it should be the only way to play PvP in my opinion.

Drennon.7190:

Vee Wee, why in the kitten do you still post here? I thought you quit this game, QQ, etc etc. Is your life really that dull that you need to post daily on a forum for a game that you quit/hate.

Probably the same as me. Getting fed up by the game because of lack of support for it. But still love the core game as is.

Sagat.3285:

Do you have backup shields?

Could you clarify what you mean with this? lol.

All i see is maps wich force you to take objectives and force you to change your builds up.

In Practise mode theres only zergs all day everyday. Fighting 1v4 is not fun. Nor is it practise.

There is no way to actually fight 1v1 unless you create or find a specific custom arena with a max of 20 slots with no support to actually swap people automaticly after they lose, resulting in a frustrating ‘spam join’ game. (QoL anyone?)

The worst maps focus on cheap easy to use objectives wich means stuff like skyhammer. Wich are ussually forcing good players and creative builds to instead go with cheap knockbacks, stuns, fears and stability for mere survival.

I cannot play Practise mode because of zergs.
I cannot play Unranked because of 3 bad build biased maps. (soon to be 4 i feel)
I cannot play Ranked unless i have a fully decked out organised, with ts, team. Wich is extremely hard to find if your not in the ‘upper’ circles. Because of.. well, other organised teams.

So where do i go then? Custom? Well, about custom… there is almost no customization support for people ‘paying’ 200 gold for an arena forcing in more Practise mode style games. Or rank farms, wich is inherently bad for any PvP game. Ever.

I become more annoyed by the day, every day i play PvP (from ‘kitten ’ to ‘BS!’). Eventho i have a very solid PvP guild wich sadly isnt super active because of the current state and no love from anet at all.

Wich in turn makes me just wanna disband my guild and quit PvP alltogether. Wich i probably will soon.

When do posts like this get an actuall Developer response?, because the last few posts i saw Devs make didnt even concern PvP in the slightest, Just about rewards and totally different gamemodes wich really have no impact to improve PvP at all. (GvG isnt PvP, its GvG)

Please just drop the ball and say PvP doesnt have a high enough playerbase and explain to us that dev time only goes to highly populated areas then.
Stop playing with our hearts!

Signed players who want a competetive game!