Guild Wars 2

OFFtimes are the best times to play because all the working class and kids arent playing then. Wich the brunt of cassuals exists off of. Only the people who trully enjoy the PvP in this game play on OFFtimes so your bound to have better matches.

Yep i just encountered the same bug, got like 5/6 weaps unlocked from previous year and i just tried to unlock super WH wich showed me i only have 1 unlocked (the WH)

If people working at anet dont have the expertise or the knowledge on howto meet deadlines. Ea Legendary weapons ‘team’.

Why would you even keep them in your company?

If i dont meet deadlines, i know i should get fired for not doing the job i was supposed to do. If your going to tell us that the legendary ‘team’ would take years to complete there job. Why arent you pressing the issue.

Why are you keeping them in the company and add them to the LS team if theyr too slow to meet deadlines? There is no point except ‘friendly favours’ to keep people like that at anet.

And this might just be why the community is always underwhelmed with content you deliver because theres some people at anet who just cant work efficient. If this is a recurring trend at the very least.

At the very least pinpoint us exacly the ins and outs, why the 6 people have not managed to do what theyr supposed to do in a timely manner. Because all we have now is speculation. And that the 6 ppl really arent fit for there job as game designers.

For all we know it was colins strategy to actually take 2 years to complete the legendaries and keep it all on his imaginary table of ‘stuff that doesnt get finished untill its finished’

I personally dont mind that legendaries are scrapped, dont get me wrong. But keeping the people who are doing a lackluster job in my perspective is not going to be healthy for the future of gw2 no matter where you put them. So please clarify why exacly theyve been failing otherwise people WILL theorycraft and will leave with the knowledge theyr simply donating money to amateurs who are supposed to be proffesionals.

Sure i get it they have mouths to feed, as a friend you wouldnt fire them. But lets face it your running a company, not a charity.

Geez guys its just a suggestion. I dont really see how hard it is, seeing they can just add invisible walls everywhere. And in the same sense they could build upward, maybe make some skycastles. idk.

The fact is EB is boring. Because its stale. Its doing the same stuff over and over again for the past 3 years. and all theyve added to that is more gimmicks. I feel gliding could potentially open up EB to more fresh content and would allow for more gw2.

I mean they arent splitting various gamemodes skill balancing so new ppl dont get confused. But even, i, as a veteran sometimes get confused where i can glide and where i cant. It seems contradicting.

Since you guys are reworking WvW it seems for the perfect time to suggest this.

What if f2p players get basic access to gliding while in WvW, it would promote HoT to free to play players seeing as they can test a feature and if they really enjoy it, it would cause for sales for HoT. Seeing as gliding is one of the most fun things thats in HoT.

And tbh i dont know if im alone with this, but the idea that i can glide in central tyria but not in WvW sometimes really gets annoying.

Just my 2 cents.

Rolisteel.1375:

Can i have your gear and other stuff?

Its a shame there are so many trolls like you, who would wrather make fun of someone like me then actually try and get where im comming from.

Because yes, in my opinion, people like you are one of the big reasons why anet got into this mess to begin with.

The sad part is, i realise why this is happening, They cant dedicate groups of devs to certain aspects of the game and actually dedicate there entire time towards that.Simply because gw2 is so big. And the workhorse behind it cant really manage it all.

With PvE constant updates, PvP balancing, WvW balancing, Raid balancing, New raid wings, New systems, New gemstore stuff that needs to be designed and implemented, bug fixes overall. Monitoring ingame economy, monitoring the profit they make in a quarter. Testing and creating new stuff. New expansions, Living world updates. The current WvW overhaul. Legendaries. Tournaments.
Generally even the slick polishing takes loads of efforts. Details, updates in all parts of the game.

Its allot of stuff, and then add the simple fact anet makes this about 10 times harder on themselves by not splitting the gamemodes. So new people dont have to relearn everything.

But thats also the thing, i cant really be bothered with playing PvP if its not maintained as a Competetive game should. It led to the downfall of WvW (wich is currently getting overhauled to make it work again) too little active involvement from anet.

So all in all, i considered the options anet has, and weighed them against my own personal interest. Ill gladly play PvE since i enjoy that, just like the WvW overhaul wich im going to see if they hit the nail. But PvP without constant polishing fixing and balancing. Its not really worth my time.

I dont just quit something i love (because if i may be honest i definatly loved PvP before HoT even with the imbalances). But sometimes you just gotta realise what it would take to get back to the glory days and realise those days arent comming back.

Fivedawgs.4267:

ErazorZ.5209:

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

bye, have fun in Blade and Soul

Yeah, good thing i dont play BnS.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Bye .. and also if you can. Please send me your ascended gear and what not. As far as your thread is concerned. It’s utter crap( hope I didn’t offend you there Because I really want your gear). Hope I’ll receive my gear today.

And have fun

Im glad you understood this thread so well and you read it thoroughly. I mean, i dont really get why your even here commenting when you dont even read the thread.

I quite clearly stated ill be having my way with PvE and WvW. But ofcourse, some people have nothing of value to say. So ill take it with a grain of salt and just ignore you for the remainder of your time spent in this thread.

I mean i get it, why you need to hate with saying nothing at the same time. I wont say your constructive critisism showcases your intelligence. But yeah, it does.

I mean your pvp GEAR!!! Kappa. Sorry it’s very easy to jump to conclusion when 99% of these post always revolve around someone leaving Gw2. But you are right I should have read the whole post.

Yea its sad that ppl need to vocalise there opinion on the forums, then not get listened to by anet due to no responses. No matter how well articulated, since the only times devs seem to wake up in the PvP forum is when they are gonna add a patch, without having read most suggestions that have been discussed by the community for weeks.

It really feels like they change everything up, internally, without ever reading the suggestions on the forums. And then when theyve already made up with what theyr going to do the upcomming patch. They start becomming active in the forums untill the patch hits and then its dead silence again. Its like every advice on the forums get ignored untill its close to patch day. Then they read everything in that 1 week when theyr active in this side of the forums. And expect everything to be discussed and stuff wich is obviously not the case. (worst part is even then they dont respond or read any suggestions since theyve already made up there mind with what theyr gonna do)

Eventually your forced to showcase your dissatisfaction in the most attentionseeking way possible, (posting a thread on the forums saying your quiting) Just to show anet ppl are infact quiting because of how they are going about things.

And then you quit and never look back because of a poor stance by anet on PvP.

InsidiousWaffle.7086:

bye, have fun in Blade and Soul

Yeah, good thing i dont play BnS.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Bye .. and also if you can. Please send me your ascended gear and what not. As far as your thread is concerned. It’s utter crap( hope I didn’t offend you there Because I really want your gear). Hope I’ll receive my gear today.

And have fun

Im glad you understood this thread so well and you read it thoroughly. I mean, i dont really get why your even here commenting when you dont even read the thread.

I quite clearly stated ill be having my way with PvE and WvW. But ofcourse, some people have nothing of value to say. So ill take it with a grain of salt and just ignore you for the remainder of your time spent in this thread.

I mean i get it, why you need to hate with saying nothing at the same time. I wont say your constructive critisism showcases your intelligence. But yeah, it does.

Lord Kuru.3685:

They balance every 6 months, not 3. They’ve more recently promised every 3, but we’ll have to see that to believe it.

If you want more playstyle/build diversity, then you’d probably be a bit better off in WvW — just because there are more playstyles available there….

except that game mode is even more dead than PvP.

Yea, its the reason why i dropped PvP, theres just no support. 1 small tweak (as they stated in there blogpost), every month(due to off-season), is nowhere near the tweaking this game needs. And tbf i dont see them fix anything noteworthy. Just incredibly small buffs and nerfs wich overall do nothing for balance. (they should do this daily, not monthly).

Im going to wait for the WvW overhaul and waste my time in PvE helping friends who didnt complete everything just yet, login for dailies etc.

WvW on my server (Ruins of Surmia) has 5/10 people at the best hours in the entire map. So currently thats definatly not a goto place at all. Unless ofcourse you want to be permanently ganked by a team bigger then yours when your taking about 5/6 times longer to cap a tower, then they would.

Hello guys,

Well as you can read the title, anet cant hype me up anymore regarding PvP.
The current state of the game is Meta overshadowing everything non meta.

I didnt come here to start a healthy discussion but to start a food for thought thread as i take my departure from Gw2 PvP entirely.

Its no fun playing a gamemode thats almost not supported at all by Anet except with overhyping tournaments, wich the brunt of the playerbase doesnt care about. And a single balance patch every 3 months (wich is no way support at all).

This thread isnt about the meta. It isnt about balance. Its not even about Tournament marketing.

Its about how Anet views PvP these days. I remember in guildwars 1 the countless options i had to create builds. I remember playing bad builds but still having success in some encounters. I remember playing Meta builds in guildwars 1 wich definatly where stronger but you always had room to beat it. But most of all i remember the creativity that flowed in that game. The countless options you had to play your own way. The multitude of choices you had and still succeeding with every single one of them.

But i also know the state of gw2 PvP. They literally removed creativity from the game. Entirely.

The only thing i can still bring to the table in regards of PvP is advice. Do not play PvP if your a competetive minded spirit. Do not play PvP if you are a creative artist. Do not play PvP if you enjoy the PvE communities friendliness. Do not play PvP if you want to improve.

Play PvP when you enjoy farming. Play PvP when you need to troll and grief. Play PvP to win with a single meta build. Play PvP if your a casual player who doesnt feel the need to improve but still succeed.

As for advice towards anet. Create a test server. Without it your gamemode is lost. Create a seperate dedicated balancing team that tweaks and monitors the meta 24/7.
Dont believe in algorithms. Believe in experiences. But most of all, listen to negative advice, take them with a grain of salt and realise they are negative for a reason.

Daniel Handler.4816:

The counterplay to necro still is range. If you can maintain distance you can dps them down. Using fresh air and super speed is one of the easiest ways for ele to do this.

Im getting kinda tired awnsering this question over and over again.
Chill and slows stop that, as about half of this thread is trying to explain. The only way to get reliable condi clear is to trait for it and sadly the only condi clear we have are all on defensive traitlines. Wich means in the end if people think is fine, will be the death of any sort of consistant creative builds for elementalist. And tbh i dont want to be paper when my enemy is scissors.

Sadly the only way to make scepter work in its current underrepresented state is going full ham on yolo offensive skills. Kiting and constant air swapping makes sure your doing sustain damage, so you can reliable sit inrange and spike. But this also means you are literally forced out of any sort of stab/condi removal/healing/health/prot uptime etc.

My current build works because i can spec into 3 traitlines that are all pretty offensive traited. But they have 0 possibilities for me to clear condi. In my opinion ANY form of DPS with ele is nullified by this alone. You are forced to take at the very least earth or water to get some condi clears going.

Crinn.7864:

ErazorZ.5209:

Crinn.7864:

So you’re running beserker with no condi clear, and you’re surprised that you have trouble with a condi class?

Also necros have terrible sustain, they do however have a huge health pool (when they have LF anyways) which gives them very good burst survivability, which is why your zerk build isn’t bursting them.

Basically you’re running the absolute worst build for fighting necros.

Its the only way how you can even play damage as an ele, The other amulets just dont give that oompf to scepter because scepter DPS is extremely lackluster.

You made a risk/reward choice. The reward is the damage, the risk is that you’re absurdly vulnerable to condi classes and classes with good burst defense.

My personal class and build performs poorly against thieves and some scrapper and warrior builds. That was a risk/reward choice that I made.

I am very well aware of this. And if there was counterplay i would seize it with both hands. Versus any class theres counterplay even with condi, Except necro.

I wanted to show you guys some gameplay footage of me playing, judge for yourself how bad am i at this game;

https://youtu.be/mvbX_GDNPU4

Browrain.7346:

Yeah the hypocrisy in your posts is just too much for me. Good luck on your quest to beat a necro.

Hypocricy? I dont really know where i was being a hypocrit for not backing up imbalanced from other classes.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

So what you’re saying is…nerf Necro because anything that survives your burst will kill you in return? Welcome to glass cannon ele.

Im saying nerf necro because its impossible to kite around them, once you get in combat as a glass vs necro you cant escape due to chills making it inherently a hardcounter to glass cannons. Im not a 1 trick pony glass cannon ele. I use sustain to either stay out of range and kiting with blinds to stop there attacks. Nothing of that type of skill is possible versus necros.

Crinn.7864:

ErazorZ.5209:

Because ive searched all my traits in my current setup, and literally nothing of the traits im using has any condi clear.

So you’re running beserker with no condi clear, and you’re surprised that you have trouble with a condi class?

Also necros have terrible sustain, they do however have a huge health pool (when they have LF anyways) which gives them very good burst survivability, which is why your zerk build isn’t bursting them.

Basically you’re running the absolute worst build for fighting necros.

Its the only way how you can even play damage as an ele, The other amulets just dont give that oompf to scepter because scepter DPS is extremely lackluster.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Just ignore this noob. Complaining all around map chat about necros, but he doesnt run any condi cleanse. Lol. Thats about the same as going outside right now without any clothes on, and complaining that you’re getting cold.

Chill always has been one of the main problems for Ele’s. Finally we got rid of that boring diamond skin, deal with it. Just don’t expect to defeat a necro without condi cleanses.

Oh right im a noob. Go youtube necro spamwich, ive posted here in this thread allready. You tell me thats not terrible gamedesign.

Also tell me why do i do just fine against other condi classes due to the ability to kite, (you know super speed? dodgerolls?) Just because other people who play condi have an advantage does not in any way mean i cannot beat them. Its just necro. If it was all sorts and forms of condi, then your point wouldve made sense. But its not.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

I don’t know why this thread is still going on. Erazor had 30 games this first season and he didn’t play about 4-5 months before that. I have no idea how can he make any basis for his arguments.

You dont know? Do you even realise why i had 30 games the first season to start with? Because when the bunker meta settled i literally did not want to play anymore.

Right now ive played about 40/50 games in a week, dont give me that ‘hes a casual cuz he doesnt play the game 24/7’ kitten. I play this game when its fun. I’m not gonna force myself to play a game that i dont think is fun. I do not think bunker meta was fun. So i dont play.

Current meta is fine for me, except necro’s. Hence this thread. And hence why ive been playing allot more (except during necro dailies for obvious reasons)

I already stated that any game without a necro is just fine. So how can it be me?

Browrain.7346:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

ah yes, we all want this thread to descend into petty spiteful messages because of the 180 turn in food chain aye Browrain. Please give something constructive.

Atm DS is simply garbage. You must get hit to remove 1 condi, with 1s CD, and 75% hp threshold. Too gimmicky for an inefficient result. Might as well slap a 3s resistance on 10s ICD when 3 conditions are applied. But that’d rely too much on passive traits as usual. I think a better solution is to increase the efficiency or heavily reduce the CD of active condi removal skills rather than traits so no one can really complains about “passive plays”. For example reduce cleansing fire CD to 25s, cleansing wave remove 3 condis, or give warhorn to include condi removal as well.

I’m just searching for people’s “How is necro ever going to beat ele” threads as well. Can’t seem to find any. Of course eles are in a bad spot right now, but it looks bad when you all show up in the forums when it’s your class getting gutted. And fun fact, half my games from Diamond-Legendary were on ele.

So wait, you seriously expect elementalists to make a thread about necro? Have you even read the posts in this thread from necros like yourself? theres about 4/5 people here who are literally asking that ele should stay bad and imbalanced.

Srsly.

Also, Gj you abused an overpowered build at the time to get legendary. Gz bro!

Daniel Handler.4816:

It use to be that only mesmers or thieves could successfully run zerker, and better or for worse we seem to be returning to that meta. You need absolute escape options with that level of risk.

Well any games i play with no necros involved go super smooth, sure its high skillcap, but in general i know howto play my class well enough to be able to 1v1 pretty much everything, except chills. With zerker.

I currently really feel im getting set back by necros a tremendous amount in terms of MMR. And there is literally no road to improve upon due to this.

Because ive searched all my traits in my current setup, and literally nothing of the traits im using has any condi clear. Generally speaking its not that big of a problem due to focus 4 vs most condis. But necros have so much sustain and therefor access to chill, that i cant break through (as my OP said) due to shroud.The HP sponge is too big and kiting is impossible due to chill.

I can beat any other class in my current MMR pool most with relative ease due to them not knocking the sheer value of when to use dodge.

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Fivedawgs.4267:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

And why is he running zerker?

Best thing is, i didnt respond to that guy because he obviously doesnt understand what balance means, like so many other ppl. They only know spite.

“My class was underpowered last season, now yours can be underpowered because you already had your dominant meta”

Thats not promoting skill, thats promoting RNG imbalanced classes read the thread if you want to know what i think about it. Since this has been discussed over 3 times already.

Second on what you actually asked me. Why zerker? Because elementalist doesnt do any damage without zerker. Even marauder was extremely bad because its a sustain rune, in a time where scepter just doesnt do any damage.

As a scepter elementalist you are forced to play zerker to even be able to play this game on a fair level, yes its 20 times harder then other classes because you have almost no sustain or health, you dont have armor. and you fully relly on your dodges/kiting and timely blinds to stall. But atleast you can kill people before they kill you.

Its extremely high level if you know howto play it and i do.

Yet the problem still exists that as any elementalist that focusses on damage, even if its focus is hybrid support. You will not beat necros because you do not have enough traitlines/health and condi clears to simply clear the chills wich literally instant gg’s any scepter build.

You are forced into a few traitlines that can synergise with eachother to remove condis with. Do you know how little access elementalist even has to condi clear? And guess what, theyr all locked up in different trees. With the lowest HP ingame. With a single condi that hardcounters.

Chill needs to get reduced in effectiveness, its too potent. If it can hardcounter a class it shouldve been clear from the day chill go implemented in its current form, that it was too strong if you can shut down an entire class with it.

Ive stated it when reapers where revealed before HoT and everything following up to that point. That necros will be imbalanced in the ele vs necro matchup.

No I just thought it was funny that you only make the post when it’s your class. Where were your cries of outrage when DS wasn’t terrible and necros had no chance vs ele?

Well i wasnt playing the game last season at all when i found out bunker was meta… so i wasnt really there. Also i wouldnt know regardless since i dont play necro. But at the very least every comment ivve heard ingame about DS i replied with a ‘yes its a too strong for what it does and too weak for what it doesnt’ sad part is, DS wasnt that strong on zerker or marauder because life regen was allot lower and you have allot less basehealth an autoattack was enough that way.

In the end celestial/bunker amu’s caused DS to be OP and required it to be nerfed. Rightfully so.

But tbh if you played necro during that time and you vocally expressed yourself on the forums, you did cause a rightfull nerf. So you cant say it wasnt fixed.

Fivedawgs.4267:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

And why is he running zerker?

Best thing is, i didnt respond to that guy because he obviously doesnt understand what balance means, like so many other ppl. They only know spite.

“My class was underpowered last season, now yours can be underpowered because you already had your dominant meta”

Thats not promoting skill, thats promoting RNG imbalanced classes read the thread if you want to know what i think about it. Since this has been discussed over 3 times already.

Second on what you actually asked me. Why zerker? Because elementalist doesnt do any damage without zerker. Even marauder was extremely bad because its a sustain rune, in a time where scepter just doesnt do any damage.

As a scepter elementalist you are forced to play zerker to even be able to play this game on a fair level, yes its 20 times harder then other classes because you have almost no sustain or health, you dont have armor. and you fully relly on your dodges/kiting and timely blinds to stall. But atleast you can kill people before they kill you.

Its extremely high level if you know howto play it and i do.

Yet the problem still exists that as any elementalist that focusses on damage, even if its focus is hybrid support. You will not beat necros because you do not have enough traitlines/health and condi clears to simply clear the chills wich literally instant gg’s any scepter build.

You are forced into a few traitlines that can synergise with eachother to remove condis with. Do you know how little access elementalist even has to condi clear? And guess what, theyr all locked up in different trees. With the lowest HP ingame. With a single condi that hardcounters.

Chill needs to get reduced in effectiveness, its too potent. If it can hardcounter a class it shouldve been clear from the day chill go implemented in its current form, that it was too strong if you can shut down an entire class with it.

Ive stated it when reapers where revealed before HoT and everything following up to that point. That necros will be imbalanced in the ele vs necro matchup.

kuritsutian.2987:

In short, it is proven that ele can still beat a necro despite win/loss ratio which seems to be affected by skill …

Is further discussion still necessary or some sort of guide is in place?

I disagree completely. Aslong as a necro has somuch access to chills. And chills hardcounter ele so hard the game is not dictated by skill whatsoever.

Sure there are builds out there that work in 1v1’s against necro’s these days. But thats frankly all they do then, kill necros/condi. Thats it.

It has no legitimacy in any form of actuall PvP gameplay, due to other classes being able to just jump you, since your entire traitsetup is setup to deal with chain condi and burst condi while trying to dish damage.

Also i’m not trying to advocate for necro nerfs specifically, my goal is to balance ele and necro engagements. It just so happens to be with my current build necros really are the only thing that hardcounters as is with allot of variations of other builds. Atm any teamgame where there is no necros the game seems fast paced, where people die fast if they dont understand the basics of there class. At the same time some skills are definatly hitting too strong, but its workable due to kiting.

If you have any suggestions on howto make the necro vs ele matchup better, without nerfing necro or overbuffing ele please do share your knowledge. (note that my biggest complain is the chilling. Im fairly certain if necro’s had less access to chilling OR that elementalists had more to deal with chilling (besides getting trapped in multiple traitlines) or generally get a sustain buff SEPERATE from traitlines. I’d be totally down with it.

I like how people in the thread are now just accepting the fact the game is imbalanced and think that rerolling meta will ever fix anything.

Im sorry to burst your bubble but if they dont atleast attempt to fix the game now, they will never do it.

And with that in mind, if they trully want this game to die out, this is the way to do it.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

ErazorZ.5209:

Chicho Gosho.6507:

ErazorZ.5209:

Chicho Gosho.6507:

ErazorZ.5209:

Demandred.7930:

I think Sepiroth’s posts about using your superior mobility grasp the essence of this duel. My guess would be that staff eles have the best chance against frostfire builds. Yes, you’re at a disadvantage up close and most likely you’ll have to give up the point, but the frostfire necro is attrition build, and therein lies their weakness.

Just blink/burning retreat away and start charging air overload while I mindlessly chase you to make up for the tears I shed in the DS era.

Well, if my teleport had a low cooldown and air overload actually had a bigger aoe (since you need to literally stay in 600 range or even 300 range? not sure but its not a big circle) This could be something, but it isnt.

The cooldown on teleport is wayy too high to effectively use it against a necro, And chills will just kill you off from the moment you get too close with staff. Also most staff skills have really high cooldowns and in my perspective high cooldown < chill.

Aslong as necros have there gap closer in reaper form ele cant do anything, burning retreat has too high of a c/d compared to the gap closer of a necro wich makes necros chasing always eventually win out.

There is no war of attrition anymore since cele’s gone for ele. Sure theres sustain builds that dont do damage. But you will definatly never kill a reaper who has there spectral armor traited. Because yes, spectral armor has higher regen then a bunker staff user damage.

And besides that, ele life is way too low as a staff user to ever hold a point. The only thing you can do as a staff user is run away, and pray to RNG that he doesnt chase you, chill you and kill you off. Because Dps wise and HP wise, Necro just straight up beats ele in its current state.

Sorry, but i’ve red a couple of posts about necro having high mobility. Is that a joke? Necro might have a lot of things but mobility is not one of them.

Well mobility means map traverse but also gap closers. and reapers definatly have a low cooldown gap closer to there disposal in shroud.

I don’t know if you ever played against a reaper but its #2 is not a good skill to chase. It’s good used once but it’s almost impossible to catch someone if he wants to run away. I mean yeah he can use it couple of times and maybe catch up to you if you don’t have any movement skills but he’ll be out of LS and if you can’t beat him by then than its l2p issue.

Note how theres also another factor here, the chilling. Chilling also slow your movement, wich makes the gap closer of necro allot stronger. He just needs to hit you once from range to get you chilled and your dead. Because in that milisecond you realise he chilled you and you use your condi cleanse, hes already in range to hit his second chill.

I dont think allot of necros understand the implications of chilling and ele. I mean if chill didnt reduce the movementspeed and if it didnt slow down all your abilities and required active utilities for survival (wich for an ele ussually are around the 50/60S cooldown). Then most likely this problem with reaper from an ele perspective wouldnt even exist, because active kiting would be possible.

Its also why one of my suggestions was to nerf chill as a condition. I mean if a necro has so much access to it….

Again you’re just adding skills to the reaper and not doing the same to the other side. If you compare a full DS, full traits, 10 skills reaper without cds using all his skills against ele that’s only running without using any skills or traits of course he’ll catch up.

Do you mean to say you really dont understand what a reaper makes a reaper?
This has nothing to do with full DS, full traits, 10 skills. This has to do with starting off from equall ground and even when reaper has c/d’s He will beat ele due to sheer amount of chilling.

Im glad you totally missed the point im obviously making here. Chill is not okay if you have so much access to it.

Rome.7124:

Fortus.6175:

Is it even slightly sad that I expected more from the Devs? Eles got butchered in this patch, the only amulet that allowed them to have a place after 1 year of total uselessness got removed, exposing their glaring weaknesses even more, and now their apex predator, thief, has been buffed beyond recognition….yet again.

I foresee another year of non-existent eles, and i expect very little pity from anyone who got affected by D/D cele and cele tempest (which, as an Ele main I agree were broken) since they probably just want revenge.

I think it takes a lot of courage to admit your favorite class was broken, and while i see plenty of eles admitting it, I think I have never seen a thief admit it, no matter how obvious it is.

Oh well, lets give it time and see how everything plays out, Im still at work and cant test out many of the changes, but the way it is, I think mesmers/ele might as well not exist and this will become thieves/necros-land

Ele still enjoyed longer stay in metas than Mesmer, who also got butchered in the patch. Honestly, ele was so OP for a long time, you guys had your time. At least one thing is consistent this time, both classes have crappy scepter, lol.

Ahahhahha, wow this guy.

You sure want a balanced game dont you? Out of spite wanting a class to be completely unplayable. Gj bro, you definatly made a point here.

Demandred.7930:

ErazorZ.5209:

Chicho Gosho.6507:

Sorry, but i’ve red a couple of posts about necro having high mobility. Is that a joke? Necro might have a lot of things but mobility is not one of them.

Well mobility means map traverse but also gap closers. and reapers definatly have a low cooldown gap closer to there disposal in shroud.

I’m with Gosco here. You’re making it seem like reaper can keep up with an ele. In my experience, this is rarely the case, unless we waste our shroud, and even then. As mentioned above, we don’t want to stay in RS, because it decays, and because shroud contains our most damaging, melee skills (170 range). Putting it on cool-down is also a safety issue for us, especially when other people are around.

All ill say about that is, chilling, its a major issue and always has been with eles.

It seems ele is forced into certain traits again the more i read and get pm’s Earth seems to be a requirment to beat necros.

I think current DS is the only reliable condi clear that can effectively deal with chilling in its current state from necros.

Im currently not playing the game allot anymore, so i also wouldnt mind seeing some new ‘figured out options’ that are available to DPS specced eles to get more sustain.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

ErazorZ.5209:

Chicho Gosho.6507:

ErazorZ.5209:

Demandred.7930:

I think Sepiroth’s posts about using your superior mobility grasp the essence of this duel. My guess would be that staff eles have the best chance against frostfire builds. Yes, you’re at a disadvantage up close and most likely you’ll have to give up the point, but the frostfire necro is attrition build, and therein lies their weakness.

Just blink/burning retreat away and start charging air overload while I mindlessly chase you to make up for the tears I shed in the DS era.

Well, if my teleport had a low cooldown and air overload actually had a bigger aoe (since you need to literally stay in 600 range or even 300 range? not sure but its not a big circle) This could be something, but it isnt.

The cooldown on teleport is wayy too high to effectively use it against a necro, And chills will just kill you off from the moment you get too close with staff. Also most staff skills have really high cooldowns and in my perspective high cooldown < chill.

Aslong as necros have there gap closer in reaper form ele cant do anything, burning retreat has too high of a c/d compared to the gap closer of a necro wich makes necros chasing always eventually win out.

There is no war of attrition anymore since cele’s gone for ele. Sure theres sustain builds that dont do damage. But you will definatly never kill a reaper who has there spectral armor traited. Because yes, spectral armor has higher regen then a bunker staff user damage.

And besides that, ele life is way too low as a staff user to ever hold a point. The only thing you can do as a staff user is run away, and pray to RNG that he doesnt chase you, chill you and kill you off. Because Dps wise and HP wise, Necro just straight up beats ele in its current state.

Sorry, but i’ve red a couple of posts about necro having high mobility. Is that a joke? Necro might have a lot of things but mobility is not one of them.

Well mobility means map traverse but also gap closers. and reapers definatly have a low cooldown gap closer to there disposal in shroud.

I don’t know if you ever played against a reaper but its #2 is not a good skill to chase. It’s good used once but it’s almost impossible to catch someone if he wants to run away. I mean yeah he can use it couple of times and maybe catch up to you if you don’t have any movement skills but he’ll be out of LS and if you can’t beat him by then than its l2p issue.

Note how theres also another factor here, the chilling. Chilling also slow your movement, wich makes the gap closer of necro allot stronger. He just needs to hit you once from range to get you chilled and your dead. Because in that milisecond you realise he chilled you and you use your condi cleanse, hes already in range to hit his second chill.

I dont think allot of necros understand the implications of chilling and ele. I mean if chill didnt reduce the movementspeed and if it didnt slow down all your abilities and required active utilities for survival (wich for an ele ussually are around the 50/60S cooldown). Then most likely this problem with reaper from an ele perspective wouldnt even exist, because active kiting would be possible.

Its also why one of my suggestions was to nerf chill as a condition. I mean if a necro has so much access to it….

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ErazorZ.5209:

But you will definatly never kill a reaper who has there spectral armor traited. Because yes, spectral armor has higher regen then a bunker staff user damage.

Only if you attack into it. If you don’t, he not only gains no life force, but loses it due to natural shroud decay.

Yeah but lets be honest here, if you dont attack something how on earth are you supposed to kill it? Sure trying to kite and run away while hes in shroud ‘should’ be the solution, but with the effective gapclosers and chill in shroud theres not much running away as an ele as i tried to explain.

Chicho Gosho.6507:

ErazorZ.5209:

Demandred.7930:

I think Sepiroth’s posts about using your superior mobility grasp the essence of this duel. My guess would be that staff eles have the best chance against frostfire builds. Yes, you’re at a disadvantage up close and most likely you’ll have to give up the point, but the frostfire necro is attrition build, and therein lies their weakness.

Just blink/burning retreat away and start charging air overload while I mindlessly chase you to make up for the tears I shed in the DS era.

Well, if my teleport had a low cooldown and air overload actually had a bigger aoe (since you need to literally stay in 600 range or even 300 range? not sure but its not a big circle) This could be something, but it isnt.

The cooldown on teleport is wayy too high to effectively use it against a necro, And chills will just kill you off from the moment you get too close with staff. Also most staff skills have really high cooldowns and in my perspective high cooldown < chill.

Aslong as necros have there gap closer in reaper form ele cant do anything, burning retreat has too high of a c/d compared to the gap closer of a necro wich makes necros chasing always eventually win out.

There is no war of attrition anymore since cele’s gone for ele. Sure theres sustain builds that dont do damage. But you will definatly never kill a reaper who has there spectral armor traited. Because yes, spectral armor has higher regen then a bunker staff user damage.

And besides that, ele life is way too low as a staff user to ever hold a point. The only thing you can do as a staff user is run away, and pray to RNG that he doesnt chase you, chill you and kill you off. Because Dps wise and HP wise, Necro just straight up beats ele in its current state.

Sorry, but i’ve red a couple of posts about necro having high mobility. Is that a joke? Necro might have a lot of things but mobility is not one of them.

Well mobility means map traverse but also gap closers. and reapers definatly have a low cooldown gap closer to there disposal in shroud.

Regon Phoenix.8215:

Loled hard ignorance is a bliss, at least for you. How can necro go into death/reaper shroud instantly (when as you said, you blew out all you skills and nearly instantly done +20K damage), when necros starts game with no life force?

That is bullkitten and you know it. Elementalists are way too op, and you just confirmed it.

/ignored. There is literally nothing of truth in your post. Shroud is easily gained due to the sustain HP of a necro not yet in deathshroud, with just using the lifeforce abilities and chill you can already claim dominance at the start of a fight as a necro with a healthy chunk of lifeforce ready to go.

I have yet to fight any necro that doesnt at the very least have half lifeforce filled after my burst. If you think getting lifeforce is hard, i dont know what to tell you, maybe stop playing necro?

and elementalist are OP? Lol. I hope your post gets infracted for trolling.

Demandred.7930:

I think Sepiroth’s posts about using your superior mobility grasp the essence of this duel. My guess would be that staff eles have the best chance against frostfire builds. Yes, you’re at a disadvantage up close and most likely you’ll have to give up the point, but the frostfire necro is attrition build, and therein lies their weakness.

Just blink/burning retreat away and start charging air overload while I mindlessly chase you to make up for the tears I shed in the DS era.

Well, if my teleport had a low cooldown and air overload actually had a bigger aoe (since you need to literally stay in 600 range or even 300 range? not sure but its not a big circle) This could be something, but it isnt.

The cooldown on teleport is wayy too high to effectively use it against a necro, And chills will just kill you off from the moment you get too close with staff. Also most staff skills have really high cooldowns and in my perspective high cooldown < chill.

Aslong as necros have there gap closer in reaper form ele cant do anything, burning retreat has too high of a c/d compared to the gap closer of a necro wich makes necros chasing always eventually win out.

There is no war of attrition anymore since cele’s gone for ele. Sure theres sustain builds that dont do damage. But you will definatly never kill a reaper who has there spectral armor traited. Because yes, spectral armor has higher regen then a bunker staff user damage.

And besides that, ele life is way too low as a staff user to ever hold a point. The only thing you can do as a staff user is run away, and pray to RNG that he doesnt chase you, chill you and kill you off. Because Dps wise and HP wise, Necro just straight up beats ele in its current state.

vlad.4871:

so what you want too prove with that video?Braindead necro playing against braindead people come on.
You can do same video with Tempest diamond skin before Ds change.Sitting on point afk and spamming skills and heals.

Noone is saying DS was good for the game here. Glad youve read the entire thread!
But thats exacly why it got nerfed.

And its quite obvious (atleast to me) that necros comparing DS with the current reaper is only because they too understand its broken in its current form, as broken as DS was.

But we need to ‘live’ with the imbalance like they did with DS, wich is obviously ludicrous since youll never achieve balance with this mindset.

Xista.7391:

I think in the end, DH is a horribly designed profession for sPvP. Low skill floor, low skill cap. It’s very effective against lower skilled players, but anyone experienced can easily play around it.

I think in the end whats worse is that there is also no skill ceilling with any of its skills. In my eyes this is the main problem.

Im fine with them critting allot and high. But if they can just keep rinse repeating setting up traps with no effort involved. I dont know what to say, its not as bad as turret engi back in the days but the ease of play is definatly comparable.

I think frequent updates are most important in PvP, constant tweaking (daily) on classes.

Otherwise it will just be overhaul after overhaul, wich literally makes the games meta change every balance patch to the next overpowered build that didnt get looked at or overbuffed.

tl;dr; this 3 month overhaul, isnt balancing. Its an overhaul.

Aggrostemma.1703:

All these problems could be solved by introducing the load-save-build option…

The meta would be much more dynamic with picks and counter-picks.

But now honestly this does not work…

You may start rebuild your toon before the match starts only to realise that 2sec before the start someone just picked a counter against you…

Please ANET introduce templates for sPvP!

On topic:

Ele counters DH which counters thief and thieves counter Ele

Reaper counters Scrapper what counters Druid but Druid counters Reaper

Revenant kills Mesmer but the Meso destroys Warriors what kills Rev.

…and so on…

(my list is not accurate AT ALL… builds make a big difference.. this is only an example)

Ele really doesnt counter DH, you might think 2 reflect buttons are enough to stop the ongoing barage of autoattack/trueshot, but your forgetting about the traps. and the cooldowns of the reflects. You need perma reflect unless your built tanky for DH since they can just sustain most DPS with invurns.

Also thief doesnt counter ele either, i have allot of fun fighting thiefs with my current build

And if reaper counters anything its ele.

But i repeat, once again, (3rd time now in this thread lol) Do you think rock papper scissors balancing is good? I mean the post above you (this was actually the same post lol) literally said whats happening right now. Just buy some character slots, get every meta build on your character that ‘counters’ another build. And just use the advantage to rofl all over the enemy team (aslong as you have a team that does the same).

Rock papper scissors balancing is not about skillfull plays, its about counters countering counters wich in its purest essence is nothing but constantly swapping classes at the ‘get ready’ stage untill your team has hardcountered your opponents composition.

If your opponent has the same knowledge its just gonna be about who can swap classes the fastest and who has the upperhand when the timer stops. I preffer if they made this game more about skills wrather then ‘class picking skills’ or having a distinct advantage when you buy an SSD over an HDD. Where any class hard counters another class instead of softcountering in most cases.

Soft countering is the way to go for balance, every class will have its distinct feel but has a shot against the enemy composition regardless what they pick aslong as the skills are there

Also, Just gonna post this video here aswell, i hope you guys like videos.

(edited because i didnt realise you where the one aswell talking about the build template)

Supreme.3164:

Senario.2038:

Supreme.3164:

ErazorZ.5209:

This just doesnt make any sense at all.
There is 1 class that can effectively beat necro and thats thief.

We ele have 10k hp on zerker, and even if you blow a full spike (entire weaponskills on c/d) when your min maxed on zerker in pvp, it just makes a reaper go in deathshroud and have over half his life still intact.

This is besides the entire chill idea thats already hardcountering eles since day 1.
And the possibility to do 8k dmgspikes on ele even with a 60k HP pool. Its just absurd.

Necros in shroud have no mobility issues, in shroud they have more then enough access to stability to negate any CC you put on them.

And seeing over half my games are matching me up vs 2 necros this just isnt playable anymore.

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.
If anet really wants necros to hardcounter ele so hard that skill just simply isnt a factor anymore. Please tell me.

But…necros don’t hardcounter eles at all right now, no profession/build does hardcounter eles right now.

Hardcounter means that not matter what you do..the defeat is 100% guaranteed and that’s definitely not the ele case.

With the right build, an ele right now can stand up to necros on equal ground and then everything boils down to personal skill; still now that build will be weaker against somebody else in the enemy team and here comes the word teamplay to mind.

There is no more cele to have a “build that fit them all”, now you need to pick your build..and choose your fights.

Clearly you’ve never been chilled as an elementalist before. It is the definition of hard counter. Not to mention boon corrupt makes things even worse. Eles have long cooldowns and that is because they have 4 attunements but chill makes it so those long cooldowns are even longer and it even slows down your attunement swap to terribly slow levels.

The fact that chill is on an autoattack is just laughably funny and I can see why ele is hard countered by necro.

Does it really matter to explain how to fight necros or show any build/tip?
Unless it’s a build used by the winning ESL team, anything is considered trash and whoever have success with it, it’s because he’s fighting newbs , ofc, who spamm scepter 1 and never go into RS, not even once and clearly dunno where the chill button is or don’t even use the staff

Basically the answer is always the same..if you have success with a non ESL build that is not nicely posted on metabattle for everybody else to copy/paste..then you obviously play hotjoin against people who bought the game yesterday

To top everything up, I tried to explain few things before on this forum but after being called : pretentious , noname noob etc etc or reading something like :“you never even once played PvP” ( despite me recently posting a pic of my diamond division where I decided to stop despite having few more days to go, because I don’t want to be associated with people who clearly reached legendary riding the exploit wave, as such I will post later a picture of me reaching legendary in S2 where no exploit or cele brokenant is present…may be childish..but I will shut down few haters on this forum and anyway S1 was nothing but a grind and I grinded just enough to complete year 2 of ascension ) ; I prefer not to say anything anymore, I simply stated the truth : nothing hardcounter the ele, there are only hard and easy match ups

Well im sorry but you state diamond division is something to be proud of when in the same paragraph you state that its more a grind then actuall skill.

So let me just get this straight here, season 1’s mmr wasnt fullbound to leagues, wich literally means you could get higher up in the league system by being a lower skilled player learning allot of new stuff and generally improving, Since your mmr rises as you improve, you also gain pips. What im trying to say is if you start playing guildwars pvp for the very first time, the amount of improving you can do is tremendous, the higher you go, the less this is true. Wich means in its essence its allot easier for someone new to league up quickly and win allot of matches aslong as he gets a better understanding of the game. But this in no means mean that the player currently legendary (even without the exploit) is not someone who just started playing and was improving relatively fast.

Second, i would like to see you try to fight a necro when your permanently chilled as an ele.

Okay, i know this is a WvW build but i just saw this on reddit.
I’d like to show you how much access they have to chilling and freezing.

Added that to the boon corrupt. Well. I think we’ve got a healthy discussion going here guys, so keep it up!

Axialbloom.8109:

Dragon Hunter. Probably it.

Not really. If you run an s/f build the on demand high spikes of a dragonhunter are way easier to access then the 3 counters an ele can bring, added to that ele have the lowest hp pools ingame. Guardian can sustain allot through active defenses and place traps on a low c/d, making you forcefully have to proc an earth 5 in focus when your out of dodges. That goes in c/d for 33/50 sec dependant on what build your using. Added to the fact elementalists who go s/f dont have allot of stability, they can trait

This makes 1v1 versus dragon hunter possible, but still in favour of the cooldowns of the d/h.

In teamfights DH simple just places traps all game long. You cant counter this as s/f due to low health and high c/d.

Cam Ron.4170:

After years of Necro not being able to touch Eles, qq day two of the reverse.

but yea reaper sccrapper thief new holy trinity

I dont know how many people have already told me this, but ill respond to it again. Aslong as people keep being non argumentative. And simply said Salty about the past meta’s. They shouldnt discuss balance. Since your view is warped and biased. And has no reall information.

Balance is achieved by cooperating. Working together to make the best solution from both sides and make them into 1 common goal. I didnt think DS was any good for the game and allot of fellow elementalists agreed it should get nerfed.

Aslong as necros dont aknowledge the problems at hand, obviously anet will never have a clear picture on whats happening. And will keep making these horrible moodswing imbalances. Where next meta ele will get DS back and your back to square one again. We BOTH dont want that.

Aslong as people say stuff like ‘Hah now its your turn to burn’ You are not discussing balance you are just being resentfull and want to keep the game imbalanced.

Entenkommando.5208:

ErazorZ.5209:

Ive talked about this in this thread allot of times already. Even in my OP, What it comes down to is that skill in the end doesnt matter in PvP if thats the case. If they trully want Rock Papper Scissors balancing, the only ‘skill’ you have is rerolling your character faster then the opponent to counter there build with your own if thats what it boils down to.

You think thats good?

The skill involves playing around your weakness, shining with your strength and assisting your teammates if they are in an unfortunate position.
If everyone can do everything what do we even have 9 classes for?

Note that im talking about hardcounters. Not softcounters. There is a huge difference in the two and it seems allot of gw2 is hardcounter classes. (or meta allrounders)

Its impossible to play with a weakness that gets you one shot that you cant dodge, Agree? A softcounter will never be able to 1 shot you. It will just do more damage versus your class overall.

Assisting your teammates should not be important if you are simply already hardcountering every class they bring to the table as a team. Every member of your team rerolls to a specific person and counters that. Only looks up fights against said person. And this means there is literally nothing your opposing team can do except pray to the RNG gods they dont meet there hardcounters when rotating.

This is not really about everyone being able to do everything. This is about softcountering instead of hardcountering.

If i face a necro, he currently hardcounters me, there is pretty much nothing i can do against it. I’d just die or he needs to not understand what makes a necro a necro.

What im suggesting is that there should be counterplays against every possible build. But give classes a slight advantage versus others. Like a necro should be beatable by ele, but chill currently completely puts a halt to that and with the excess on chills a necro has access to through there reaper line. That simple fact needs a rework.

Im just gonna give an example what ‘could’ be done. Make chill not affect attunement swapping. This will give the ele the option to still dance between attunements (clearing the possible chill), but it will most definatly give the necro an advantage. A softer counter then the current state of chill. (And tbh allot more fair in regards to other classes weaponswapping) I am also not stating this is exacly how it should be. But im simply stating this is a way to start tweaking numbers and balance.

To make the game more softcounters then hardcounters. Because if everything is able to softcounter everything about current strategy is required, but good mechanical gameplay can break it, if you really know what your doing. People would be less incentivised to ‘swap to counter’

And meta wouldnt be forced so hard since those are the only builds who have the most sustain versus most classes.

DEATHsCLAW.1978:

ele is not supposed to beat reaper in first place. do you think it was an coincidence that in the dd cele ele meta signet necro was the only soft counter? it has always been this way.
ele uses boonspam, necro corrupts them
ele uses lots of skills, necro chill longers their cooldown, now with reaper focusing on chill this got worse..
and so on..

now the cele ele got some nerfs which brought it back in line and wow kitten finally the designed hardcounter does its job effectively! its supposed to be this way just hasnt been this way for a while..

I agree deathly chill needs a nerf to allow more counters to reaper but that wont help ele a whole lot..

Ive talked about this in this thread allot of times already. Even in my OP, What it comes down to is that skill in the end doesnt matter in PvP if thats the case. If they trully want Rock Papper Scissors balancing, the only ‘skill’ you have is rerolling your character faster then the opponent to counter there build with your own if thats what it boils down to.

You think thats good?

Senario.2038:

Rome.7124:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Browrain.7346:

Ninski.5680:

Browrain.7346:

ErazorZ.5209:

Even if you are a higher skilled ele, necro can beat you due to sheer sponge HP.

And before this patch, even if you were a higher skilled necro, any diamond skin ele could beat you with his eyes closed. Why is it only not ok now?

Wrong,, pre patch all you had to do was go deathshroud and spam 1 for might stacks, soon as the eles below 90% boon corrupt with condi pressure and watch them melt, most eles especially will waste all their defensives to stay above 90%, so as soon as they drop its even an easier win

Wrong. You were facing bad eles who didn’t know how to manage their cd’s. Good eles didn’t die to necros

This is besides the point guys, thats in the past. We just want a solution for the future.
If people actually want this game to be fun, it needs to be balanced. And theres only Us the community who can make it go smooth or rough.

Im not asking for perfect balance. I think noone is. (we can all dream amiright) But atleast make classes killeable by other classes.

I’m all for balance. I just don’t want to see a bunch of nerf necro threads that lead to them being gutted just like ele. Right now it’s just an unhealthy overbuff overnerf cycle.

But it’s ok for Mesmers to be gutted? Cant be so biased.

I would agree, it is not ok for any class to get gutted or nerfed constantly (ele) but generally that is all a byproduct of Anet’s crappy balancing.

After 3 years of playing this game, i cant really say its a byproduct of crappy balance.

Seeing as they consistnelty do the same stuff. It feels very intentional.

Akkeros.1675:

DiogoSilva.7089:

mysterion.1276:

+1 best meta by far finally skill>op brainafk tank faceroll builds stacking.

“Skill” would have been the case if the balance team were to actually dedicate their time to retool existing skill sets and traits and add into them more playing potential, counterplaying, windows of opportunity, clarity and risk/ reward tactics.

Do you see the balancing team do this? Perhaps somewhat vaguely at best, yes, they do, at least as much as they can by opening an excel statsheet and tweaking numbers, which is to say, not much, while core mechanical and design issues keep getting ignored.

I think it is planned lack of attention. Let’s focus on class A and B elite specialization so people have to buy HoT to compete, neglect C D E F
In three months we will completely nerf A and B so people drop it for a while, purposely buff C and D, neglect EF, and so on.
Let’s get rid of amulet A to force amulet B and C which can only get stats/runes from HoT, thus if they wanna use, take into pve, wvw, gotta buy HoT

This. This is how anet works, They dont really balance, they just rework.
They make a few classes OP every season. So everyone gets there ‘fair shot’ In my opinion i already gave up on this.

Because lets be honest thats not a competetive pvp game. Nor is it fun. Knowing you are either kitten or OP, intentionally, so you can do your dailies in comfort that day.

Anyone stating gw2 is one of the best PvP games out there doesnt really know what PvP in its essence means. Gw2 is one of a kind. Thats where it shines. But currently its becomming more and more Moba like. Wich is REALLY bad.

fumcheg.1936:

ErazorZ.5209:

skiped

I don’t advocate the balance, but if you have reapers on each point (means 3 reapers minimum team comp) then the best decision for you is to switch you class to one that don’t get hard countered by reapers. Like, you know, reapers did before the patch if they saw 2 eles on the oposite team.

For example if I have another thief on my team (I main thief btw) I’ll switch to another class, because 2 thieves on the same team = loss.

Any class has its weaknesses. Good DH on point = death for thief. Prepatch scrapper as well. Why do you think ele should be some kind of a special snowflake and counter any other class in the game?

The real thing anet must do is to forbid class stacking on one team. And it looks like they are not even going to do it.

fumcheg.1936:

ErazorZ.5209:

Besides the point, you actually have allot of mobility as a reaper, seeing as your number 2 skill on shroud, deathcharge i believe its called, has a cooldown of 6 and when traited 5. That mobility + chill is unkiteable by anything that isnt gated into the 2 traitlines.

And of course this part shows that you don’t play reaper.

I really wonder why people tend to ignore what i say, 2 reapers is more then enough to negate any pressence of an ele’s effectiveness. Your 3 reaper suggestion is absurd and in a game where you do have to fight and rotate around points you cannot tell me the reapers dont keep rotating.

So our problem already arises with 2 reapers (i could even say one, seeing mid mostly is the contestion point, but thats actually avoidable on allot of the current maps).

second point, I do not enjoy the other classes, i have also already stated this in the thread. Because i feel the other classes are too slow to be played ‘actively’. The entire idea what makes me have fun with s/f is that i can control my own speed. and i can actively get better at it, making it a high skillcap class wich you slowly improve upon untill youve hit the point where your mechanically sound and your dps has increased to tremendous ammounts. No other classes have this. The closest thing is a class spamming a single button thats on a low c/d And tbh thats not what i think someone who wants to improve should play. Ever.

third point, what your talking about is rock papper scissors balance if you actively agree that classes should hardcounter other classes. Rock papper scissors balancing is not balancing. Its rellying on RNG and good/bad matchups wich are only fixable by constantly swapping and ‘countering’ classes, with your own, wich your opponent is using as a team compo. This removes the entire mechanical skillfactor from the game and devolves it into a build-win or loss team setup. Where you dont actively have to know howto play your class, but wrather, understanding the basics where a class counters the opposing class. (Ea roll necro for perma chills vs ele). This kills skillfull plays and makes gw2 like a moba. A really poorly balanced with only a few ‘heros’ available. Moba aka a terrible one.

Onto your next point.

Why does that show that i dont play a reaper? Where exacly? I know very well reaper doesnt have access to swiftness and doesnt have any sort of maptraverse mobility. The intercept ability is the issue, its what necros gained with there elite spec. Wich is far too powerfull on a class like a reaper. This is also a form of mobility. And on a low cooldown, its absurd that reapers have access to it somuch.

fumcheg.1936:

ErazorZ.5209:

I already told people in this thread and in my original post that when you face 2 reapers, you cannot run away from them, because that would make either you completely useless, or your taking a thiefs role on far from someone. Thats not what you want as an ele. Second, the reaper will seek you out, because you are an ele at the same time. Ive had it happen to me allot already in the past 3 days.

Nice. Can you explane us why did you ever decide that you should be able to stand on point against 2 reapers? Just because you want to?
You don’t like to be focused? Get used to it. Reapers were the second target right after DH in every match during S1.

L2P and adapt – that’s my only advice.

I wasnt talking on point against 2 reapers. i was talking that everywhere that i can go theres a reaper. Home, mid, any points that should be noteworthy . And 1 reaper = instant gg vs ele. As im trying to show.

Especially if you consider (like noone else here who plays necro obviously is) that chill hardcounters ele. And just to be able to get rid of the permanent chill a necro does you are forced to trait into 2 traitlines. Forcing you to go support because those traitlines do nothing damagewise. (oh and forced utilities aswell).

You know why reapers where the biggest target even before the balance patch? People ussually tend to focus the biggest threats first. It just so happens to be that necro always had this sustain, but because of cele sustain meta, people had better options at sustain.

Adapting as ele means going full support (like d/d was wich i on purpose did not play for its ease of play and its fixed optimal rotation you just have to rinse and repeat let alone the feeling that your literally doing nothing at all the entire game long).

The thing now with ele support is, they really dont do anything else anymore. Cele gave ele atleast the capability to do damage. But the bunkering up of cele ruined it by making it also have defensive capabilities, wich made it OP tbh.

The fact that this isnt a l2p issue is very very clear from my perspective seeing as ive been 1v1ing allot of necros lately just to see what i can still do. And yes what i can still do revolves around 2 forced traitlines (again). I also learn that the biggest issue is ‘Spectral armor’ This trait singlehandedly makes the reaper have twice the sustain they used to have.

Besides the point, you actually have allot of mobility as a reaper, seeing as your number 2 skill on shroud, deathcharge i believe its called, has a cooldown of 6 and when traited 5. That mobility + chill is unkiteable by anything that isnt gated into the 2 traitlines.

If anet really wants to force this slow paced action combat they keep enforcing. Thats really fine by me. They should do whatever they want. Its just not for me. And i just need someone to confirm this. Even if its in secret by an anet dev.

I just dont want this constant drag of waiting for actuall balanced gameplay anymore. “waiting for your chance to shine, but only if you play your proffesion exacly as we want you to do during the fixed meta we setup for you, Next season we will be taking a look at necro and thief nerfing them back again, and we see X class underperform so we are going to make that meta next.”

Hooglese.4860:

So despite the horrendous amount of QQing done by people I think the game is fairly balanced. There are a few obvious outliers, however that could be addressed. Keep in mind I’m some omnipotent gw2 god and I don’t know everything and the meta has yet to be developed. I’m also going to deny some QQing, sorry my fellow revenants.

Warrior
I don’t know warrior. It’s in a lot better of a place then it was but that’s only really due to the removal of pure bunkers. It doesn’t seem like warrior got buff it needed, but I will say it’s still terrifying when I see a rampage pop in or when they put 16 burn stacks on me. I’m not sure war will be meta but Rom has proved me wrong before.

Guardian
For the most part it’s in a pretty good place.

• Procession of Blades is bugged and dazing every strike again. I guess that’s a technical issue…
• Hunter’s Ward isn’t always animating. Again technical issue
• True Shot hits just a little too hard. I don’t think it should be stronger than mighty blow, since it’s ranged.

Revenant
It’s no longer over powered in certain aspects but it’s pretty weak in others. Still needs a lot of work to fix. The 5k auto attack is gone and should be gone, please stop complaining.

• Jalis needs to be fixed. Since there’s no stun breakers and everything is so expensive energy wise, it’s not easy to use.
• Ventari needs to be fixed. Again similar reasons to Jalis but since it doesn’t scale well with healing power, skills are delayed and moving the tablet costs 10 energy so even if the delays didn’t exist and you could heal for a feasible amount with the right stats, you would burn your energy very quickly.
• Precision Strike. Fix it. It’s buggy as hell. Don’t get me wrong I love the idea, but the bugs make it hilariously broken.
• Corruption Trait line needs to be redone to accomodate the change of Mallyx to not reflect stacking condis on yourself. I’m talking about Replenishing Despair, Bolstered Anguish, Pulsating Pestilence and while other’s may argue no, Demonic Defiance (it’s just a free shield against condis now, where as before it was a needed shield to not kill yourself). None of these traits reflect Mallyx’s current state.
• Pulsating Pestilence needs to activate depending on the current number of conditions on you. I can’t stress enough how silly it is that it’s a chance on hit.
• Embrace the Darkness needs to be useful during upkeep. I don’t know any one that doesn’t just turn it off immediately (except to look cool of course)
• Grasping Shadows needs to have a 260 range to hit. It’s impossible to land and costs so much
• Retribution trait line needs to be looked at again. Any thing that isn’t in the meta is pretty inferior for obvious reasons.
• Dismantle Fortifications is, well, pointless. There isn’t enough CC on rev for this to be worth it.
• Salvation trait line needs an entire overhaul.

Engineer
Again I don’t play this lots but I see more so I know a bit more. It feels a bit strong given it’s quite defensive, mobile, and can pack a hell of a wallop

• Rocket charge should only be one leap finisher. Why is it 3?
• Electro-whirl should show appropriate numbers on the death screen as right now it just says it’s damage + the reflected damage resulting in some qqing. Tech issue ofc.
• HGH + Elixer gun allows condi proofing and high damage. This should be looked at.
• Sneak Gyro, despite having is CD doubled, is still taken over the other elites (for now). It still seems to be the best option.

Ranger
Pets, pets, jebus the pets. This is a big one, because it’s literally the only problem here.

• Brislteback – lower that damage
• Smokescale – lower that damage
• Tiger – actually this is a misdirect I’ve never seen a tiger in pvp. Don’t touch yet.

Thief
Thief is fine. I can’t figure out why people are complaining. I’ve been killing these things left, right and center, but they’ve been killing me too. It’s how thieves should be. Oh wait one thing:

• Dash – it removes all chill, cripple and immob, reduces damage taken by 10% and gives 10s of swiftness? This one’s just plain stronger than the other two as it prevents all and any soft cc. It’s the entire acrobatics line in one trait. I don’t mind the idea at all, but it needs to be toned down.

Mesmer
Mesmers in an okay place. I’m not happy with the nerf to alacrity but something needed to be done, I personally would have limited access to it. Here’s some gripes

• Blinding Dissapation needs a low internal cooldown
• Danger Time needs some kind of improvement. +30% crit chance vs slowed enemies? Cool I already have near 100% with pack runes, maurader ammy and fury but okay lets push it up that extra 20%
• Time Catches Up is just not that good. I like the idea, but it does nothing to prevent the clones from dying (or being crippled for that matter) before they reach their destination nor does it give the mesmer superspeed. Not exactly a good trait.

Necro
Stop complaining about necros, people. Start bringing some condition defense. Necros are still pretty squishy, since there’s not a lot that can be done about cc on them. I’m also not saying they can’t be toned down

• Bitter Chill – I’ll say it, it could take a slight hit.
• Soul Eater – the secondary effect does next to nothing.

Elementalist
So your unending defense went down? Oh wow that must feel horrible. While ele got hit hard in pvp it didn’t get killed. Fresh air tempests are something new that I really gotta get used to. 10k bursts from overload air are ouchy. It’s roll got taken out, who know it might find a new roll?

• Warhorn needs a buff. No one uses it and it’s not because it doesn’t look cool. It’s just worse than the other two options
• Overload air could take a small nerf. Nothing major at all, like a slighly smaller radius.
• Overload water and earth could have better support.

All in all I like this balance. It feels okay, I haven’t encountered anything besides dash thieves that I’ve been disappointed by.

Im sorry, but no. Thats not how this game works. You have a very biased Point of view, and i can swear youve never played fresh air, definatly not if you think necro is fine. With it being one of the only classes that can sponge a spike due to its absurd healthpool.

sephiroth.4217:

ErazorZ.5209:

sephiroth.4217:

Ele beats reaper in my experience… Although I have 4 ele’s now and have been playing the class for over 3 years.

Can you please post the build.
Ive been playing ele for 13+ years (gw1 included ;p) and i have yet to find a way to reliably be able to beat them due to the sponge in the current meta.

Use S/D blind spam and air/earth control.

I might also have the advantage of having this mouse, compared to the notorious keyboard turner, then there’s also other factors involved with the fight such as their own personal skill/build and rotations… I find a lot of Reapers will use the same combo’s repeatedly whereas the Ele can easily switch up a versatile playstyle.

With an Ele, there is also the clear advantage of mobility, so regardless the Ele should not lose unless the players own greed becomes their very demise.

tldr: I’m not saying I’m good, but I’m saying there’s a lot more factors involved with an engagement that determines the winner.

well s/d doesnt work really. since you dont have sustain in the current meta with s/d, focus gives you daze and invurns and reflects. dagger offhand only give you a slight (on c/d) mobility increase, but makes you super squishy and any focus fire will kill you in the current meta.

Blind spam is also is not reliable, since the cooldowns of the skills is too high to actually be able to spam it. Even if traited.

And added, i come from starcraft, im very well versed with my keyboard haha. Got a ducky shine+razer deathadder. And from my personal experience mmo mice really dont give me any sort of benefit. Actually its the contrary. My keyboard is literally my 3rd hand at this point (wich is why i like playing the active s/f somuch)

Well they listen, for sure. The reall question is, when. What my experiences are so far is that theres definatly people searching the forums. But only once every so often (wich is the problem) they check the forum when they do a balance patch, but they only check it like a week or something beforehand, seeing all the problems that where discussed that week.

You can see this in the way how anet is balancing, since they are obviously doing stuff the community wants. But generally very well argumented posts are ignored, and in my opinion not because they dont care, nor because they are selective. Its because they simply arent reading the forums at the time.

This is just a theory of mine tho, so take it with a grain of salt. So far this seems to be the case for ele.

Celine.6857:

WhatEVER class you play, you need to know what you can and can not take in a PvP match. If you’re an ele and you can’t take a Reaper (which to be honest pre-patch re DS surprises me), then you avoid that Reaper, or go in head strong as a team.

PvP is about team work and a big big factor in that is everyone knowing exactly which 1v1s they can win more often than not.

Ele is extremely survivable, they have great maneouvrability, strong DPS, excellent utility and I am absolutely gob smacked by this thread.

I am sorry but i am just not playing the same game as you then.
I already told people in this thread and in my original post that when you face 2 reapers, you cannot run away from them, because that would make either you completely useless, or your taking a thiefs role on far from someone. Thats not what you want as an ele. Second, the reaper will seek you out, because you are an ele at the same time. Ive had it happen to me allot already in the past 3 days.

Second point. Pvp is certainly about teamwork, not arguiing that, but you cant expect to always relly on your team and pretend theyr always around. Especially as your rotate around, this feit is neigh impossible. (this is one of the big reasons why support builds generally tend to work less good in soloQ).

Ele in its current state is the exact opposite of extremely survivable seeing that they have no health, no super defensive runes to fall back on, and ‘invurns’ with a cooldown of 75 sec each (on utilities).

Not sure why you are talking about manouvrebility? I think your talking about celestial ele? Celestial doesnt exist anymore in the realms of PvP wich makes D/D setup very poor in terms of general survival.

The DPS, is one of the main points about my OP. If i full min max(aka go full yolo zerker) and do every skill on my proffesion in succession. I cannot break through a necro even when is AFKing. I told this in my original post. I wonder if you read it.

They have allot of utility thats what i can give you, boonsupport, auras, entire builds dedicated to support.

I hope you can express what you mean with what youve stated. I would love to learn this ele your talking about.

Keadron.9570:

Haven’t found a build yet that works against reaper so if anyone does plz share

Excuse my sarcasm but they are definatly working on it;

Elementalist:

Ride the Lightning: This ability is no longer able to be used in midair.

Necromancer:

Wells: Fixed an issue that caused these abilities to go on full recharge when interrupted.

Big nerf to ele dagger mainhand, and a pretty big deal buff for necros!

I hope this will all be justified. Maybe theyr toning down on dagger mainhand so they can give some love to ele?

Jelzouki.4128:

Dh, druid, thief, rev, mes all have potential to beat necro kittening stop crying.

What do you think necros did when there were 2 diamond skin eles on the other team??? Yeah that’s what I kittening thought.

Im sorry, but asfar as ive read in this thread necros where still able to beat cele ele. This is currently asfar as to my knowledge not possible in its current scenario.

And what you are trying to advocate here is that you’d preffer an imbalance just to ‘get back’ at ele for the time DS was meta. Thats not what balance is about. So please try to either formulate an argument or refrain from posting here again. Its not wanted.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

you don’t.

you enjoyed your d/d celele reign.

its over now.

Actually i didnt even play cele, i played marauder s/f back then. Wich was horribly underpowered. So go back to your cave you!

Let the grownups discuss balance!

kuritsutian.2987:

ErazorZ.5209:

kuritsutian.2987:

Kinda want to add something here… mindless condition cleansing also leads to defeat.
Testing sage noticed how regeneration let me just ignore certain condis such as bleeding, poison and sometimes even burn (if only a single stack). Try it out on a custom room with the aid of a friend on different amulets. There are also some condis that can be ignored under certain conditions (weakness, blind, and low stacks of vulnerability) for chill and burn there’s “Drop, dodge and roll” but need to have in mind that even if you have two rolls available, the skill has 10s cd.

So in short, when fighting a reaper…. keep calm and try to ponder before using a cleanse.

Edit: Also consider using “Ether Renewal” instead of “Wash the Pain Away”, I know we are support, but an alive support is better than a dead one.

Yeah cleanses definatly help with sustaining there DPS. But still the sponge HP is still a tough nut to crack as a low hp ele. Even if you can clear all the condis, you gotta have the dps to actually get it downed, whilst still having enough life to sustain through necros traited downstate attack.

Agree, yet, damage from condis take effect over time (slowly unless bombed), which is countered by regen (Sage amulet better at this than Celestial), the problem is, that’s why timing the cleanses is important is when regen gets corrupted into poison. (At this moment you use a shout to get rid of it and reapply regen + prot) … Power damage is another story but certainly the ones comming from necros shouldn’t be a problem on a bunker build.

So how does this build (wich seems very meta all roundish) hold up? I mean i assume its a d/f centered build?

sephiroth.4217:

Ele beats reaper in my experience… Although I have 4 ele’s now and have been playing the class for over 3 years.

Can you please post the build.
Ive been playing ele for 13+ years (gw1 included ;p) and i have yet to find a way to reliably be able to beat them due to the sponge in the current meta.