Guild Wars 2

Ursan.7846:

Essence Snow.3194:

This does not prove B leads to C either. Thus you cannot discount someone’s statement based on the same rational, specially when it is designated to your OP.

Full circle logic.

Yes. If you bothered thinking a bit after you read my post, you’ll notice in my post that *I did not try to prove B leads to C, because A leads to C (Which is what you’re trying to accuse me of doing). I proved B leads to C by stating that B, which is not A, exists and will lead to the same C (wealth).

Which, if you play the game, you should know of. Champ farms. Dungeon farms. Orr farms. World Event farms. I didn’t mention the specific farms because I thought it was pretty self-evident. Apparently not.

Reading comprehension.

Reread it for yourself:

It seems that you’re going off the theory that farming Queen’s Jubilee is the only method to earn lots of resources/$$.

This is simply not true, in light of the many ways to farm which currently exists and are as profitable than Queen’s Jubilee.

Are you really reading what you are writing?

Ignorant arrogance.

Ursan.7846:

Essence Snow.3194:

Obviously they were going off the #3 point, (which you posted btw) where JS said “Queen’s Jubilee gave”. There wasn’t a mention of any other event/activity, therefor the assumption based off the quote (again which you posted), is pointless to debate unless you are debating your own post or JS’s comment.

Yes. JS said Queen’s Jubilee pushed up player’s wealth quite a bit, which made ascended crafting accessible to a large group of people.

This doesn’t change the fact that ascended crafting is still accessible who haven’t grinded QJ. Many other sources of income still exist in the game. The fact that they were not mentioned does not mean they do not exist.

A leads to C. This does not prove that B cannot lead to C.

Logic.

This does not prove B leads to C either. Thus you cannot discount someone’s statement based on the same rational, specially when it is designated to your OP.

Full circle logic.

Ursan.7846:

Mad Rasputin.7809:

It seems ANet is going off the theory that everyone farmed the event and everyone has a lot of resources/$$. This is simply not true.

It seems that you’re going off the theory that farming Queen’s Jubilee is the only method to earn lots of resources/$$.

This is simply not true, in light of the many ways to farm which currently exists and are as profitable than Queen’s Jubilee.

Obviously they were going off the #3 point, (which you posted btw) where JS said “Queen’s Jubilee gave”. There wasn’t a mention of any other event/activity, therefor the assumption based off the quote (again which you posted), is pointless to debate unless you are debating your own post or JS’s comment.

This thread gives us a taste of what having this type of thing having distant outliers has on the game.

Those that get nothing after extended periods of time/effort feel resentment and that is only enhanced when some get excessive amounts after relatively short amounts of time/effort.

So why do we have a system in our game that promotes this when other games have measures to minimize this? Most likely that is a question we’ll never get an answer for.

Focus on hot topics…

There seems to be a pattern that certain minor issues will be addressed, while the elephants in the room get bypassed. Q&A always seems to follow that pattern and as such is not very useful.

Informative feedback…

When making a change inform us why that change is made or being considered.
Saying things along the lines of “because we say so” is not helpful and only creates dissent. Replies of this nature can be found throughout the forums shortly followed by a closing of topics due to topics questionably having “run it’s course”.

Gasoline.2570:

Buttercup.5871:

Second, you are not “forced” to do the TP minigame. No one is. Scores of people acquired multiple legendaries without it. Y

NOPE.JPG

Try farming the actual mats, 250 of each, go ahead, just try.

I actually did that. It took around 8 months. After I had everything else I simply was unable to a precursor without buying one off the tp. I had multiple gifts (still have) for various legendaries jic I got one, but nope. I simply had no other choice but to use the tp.

PS still farming and throwing crap into toilet with nada…….

Maybe that it’s a high deviance system that’s the problem then. After all this is a game and the objective of such does not lend itself to things which create such disparities.

Regardless, the same can be said for it working properly. “You have to supply the math that it is”.(if you posted it…plz link)

Oops sry typo wi flag*…not wii.

As for numbers, yes I agree it comes down to number of foes killed, ranks killed, and not hours played.

The forge really gets complex in terms of input and outputs. Players can narrow chances by throwing in all of one type, higher rarity, and higher level to an extent. On the verse side chances can be diminished via throwing random combinations as we all know as well.

I am aware of how things are supposed to work in this game. It’s not hard to figure out. It’s just that what I have observed over the course of 4.6+k hours of friends and guildies, that some have remained as ouliers since the start of the game. Those who started the game and got great drop still continue to get great drops regardless of how many forges or how many foes killed. (some barely leave LA, go out once in blue moon and hit the lotto repeatedly or throw in relatively few random lvl 76 rares and hit repeatedly) On the other hand many other players farm every moment they are on and rarely see an exotic or consistently throw in similar exotic combinations in to the forge only to flush the toilet.

If one plays enough they will see patterns, that some players are either consistently lucky or unlucky over time. It’s the “consistently” and “over time” bits that make me think something is not quite right.

Grimm look up Wii flagging. It is a perfect example of unintentional rng bias that went on for over a year before being pinpointed.

1st you need to understand what reasonable means before claiming to be as such. Trying to justify extreme criticism because something doesn’t fit into your thought process, is not reasonable. It boarders on the edge of irrational and vain naivety.

Again look up observational data. Given it is the only evidence we have access to, it fits rather well.

lol @ wild accusations…..fits perfectly with conspiracy theories

It’s evidently very easy to go to the extreme right or left. No way it could be a little off to one side or the other. It must be wild, rampant, and/or conspiracy level.

Take a look at what observational data is/does/can be used for. Then take a step back from the extreme edges and come back to reasonable.

No reason aside from the field research?

Since when does believing there may be a bug or mistake in the coding = conspiracy theory, or is that just a general reply?

Gasoline.2570:

I am very glad to see that entitlement argument creeping up at every possible direction, because hey, it solves everything, doesn’t it!? Suggestions for improvement? Entitlement of course! Leave if you don’t like! lol.

Thanks for your contributions ohoni, people tend to lose faith in even bothering to show other perspectives because of the inanely forceful nature of the forums atmosphere. Even if it’s just the usual suspects. And I agree with you whole heartedly. The amount of money power traders are amassing is really getting out of hand and buyouts become more and more common.

Spot on….15 charrssssssss

Astral Projections.7320:

The problem is that truly random occurrences don’t look random to people. People often expect random events to be spread out evenly but in actuality the events tend to cluster. Below is a picture of random dots. Imagine if the dots showed people getting a precursor and the white areas are where people are trying and failing to get one. Some people would appear lucky and others unlucky when it’s simply randomness making its appearance.

If the same scatter diagram didn’t repeat itself over the course of time I’d agree. When the same scatter diagram repeats day in and day out, then I will need to question if it is completely random on all accounts.

Brother Grimm.5176:

Essence Snow.3194:

Some call it “wild conspiracy”, I just call it acknowledgement of evidence and coming to a logical conclusion. If the same person wins the lotto time and time again it’s logical to acknowledge something is not working as intended.

In cases I have seen, one guy is buying 1,000,000 tickets and the other guy is going into the convenient store 1,000,000 times and buying a ticket every 1000 trips….. It’s easy to say you “farmed” and area for an hour but you killed 100x less enemies than the winner.

If the data is skewed, it’s easy to make invalid assumptions (or promote flawed theories).

Because there are no facts, there is no truth
Just a data to be manipulated
I can get any result you like
What’s it worth to ya?

Okay, now reverse that and you’ll get what we have here.

One guy farms and kills 100x times more, but the guy that kills 100x less gets 10x the rewards.

There is no proof either way ,so observation is the best we have to go by.

Ensign.2189:

The story of Diablo III’s auction house is testament to the difficulty of designing a reward economy without talking to an economist. I think it’s sad that quite a few truly excellent gameplay and system designs they made are going to be forgotten because their game’s economy and reward system designers were incompetent.

What we have here seems to a reward structure heavily influenced by the economists and the cash shop monetary managers who probably don’t really play much (assumption but it kinda shows). What that does is create the environment where the game as a whole is renowned for being unrewarding.

While they might be good at their specific areas of expertise, the current state of the games reward system is testament that they should not have such a strong impact on reward design.While we might have a better economy our rewards fall short.

Why would I leave LA when I can make 10X the rewards by standing at the BLTC.

Oh kitten NO!……15 kittens

There is nothing that’ll increase or decrease your chances.

That said, there is plenty of evidence showing that the RNG in this game is not working as intended and not much showing that it is. The same players will consistently get better drops, better forges, worse drops or worse forges. Over time these outliers should move towards the center, but this doesn’t seem to be the case as the trends continue for those effected.

Some call it “wild conspiracy”, I just call it acknowledgement of evidence and coming to a logical conclusion. If the same person wins the lotto time and time again it’s logical to acknowledge something is not working as intended.

Katreyn.4218:

Luthan.5236:

Katreyn.4218:

I struggled the most in the Molten Alliance room just because of the stupid protector’s fire protection and the stomping brawlers are annoying as balls, but I managed to run around like a chicken long enough to get back in control of that fight.

That was the one with the portals? In the first dungeon with Kasmeer and Majory I had a bit trouble when there were like 8 or 9 mobs and 3 of them vets… cause I killt that portals too fast and thought the mobs also would disappear(maybe you can go to the next room with them stopping following at some place)?

Or is ist better to kill few mobs then destroy the portal, then next few mobs, then next portal? (if they don’t respawn as long as portal is open? – or do they respawn / spawn more? then I’ll just fast kill the portals).

Its definitely tricky if you are doing AoE damage I feel. I took down the first two portals then tried to thin down the enemies a bit before finishing off the third one. But if they are open other mobs will continue to spawn so its really more of a factor of trying to clean it up a bit before the big guys spawn (which I think the vets come out of the last portal only, don’t recall exactly).

I also wondered if running out of the room they would stop following you. But I don’t think aggro leashes exist in dungeons. I could be wrong. I never really do the shortcut runs or anything in normal dungeons so I don’t really have any experience in skipping mobs in such a way. :/

All you have to do is destroy the 3 portals then run. You don’t have to kill any of the molten guys, just the portals.

slurpey.6014:

digiowl.9620:

I pitty the ones coming late to this, when the key farmers are all golem jumping to third level…

then those people can group together and don’t have to complain that they are alone inside the tower Problem solved.

This will become an issue once the hype dies down.

I have a bad feeling that it’ll turn out similar to the newer TA path. Tie that in with rng rolls and it’ll detract from fractals more than it’ll add after the initial hype dies down.

I hope I’m wrong….

I’m not in game atm, but I’m 100% sure that you’ll have to go to your bank to transfer.

If I am wrong I’ll send you 5 gold.

(=character) to (=account)

Yep that work was totally worth a 25% price increase across the board.

Granted if I were in their shoes, I’d do the same thing since it’s quick, easy, more profitable, and I’d get customers praising me let alone defending me. It’s a no brainer.

Vol.5241:

Why in the world would you expect Anet to not only change the system from soulbound to accountbound, but also make it cheaper? Where is the logic in that?

Who said anything about making the infinite tools cheaper?

Yep milking it…….1000 gems now is definitely not worth it, since we can buy full sets of tools for next several years for all toons for less. There’s paying for convenience and there’s being gouged for convenience. This is on par with the pet rock.

Meglobob.8620:

I would actually be dead before I could get some of those achievements…no kidding…I am old…so yes they are insane!

Anet seem to do this quite often, not understand the length of time some would take to get. Its almost as if the devs don’t play there own game, so have not got a clue, also there mathematic skills are obviously not very good.

But Devon said a month or so ago that they would be changed so instead of taking 10 years to the rest of your life to do, they will only take a mere 2-3 years…

So in 2 years they’ll change it so it only takes 8 years. Seems to be the way of things.

So I have seen drops, thimbles, and kegs (rare as blk) drop. We can buy tastes from the laurel vendor, but where are the swigs and jugs from?

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Essence Snow.3194:

So Ryobe was you? You went and used a secondary account to answer a question that you refused to answer on your primary?

I answered the question, and then after you didn’t want to believe it, you accidentally answered it yourself by using flawed arguments. It was quite amazing actually. I’ve never won a debate by losing it, so it this was a first.

It’s all there if you need to go back and read it again, but whatever you need to tell yourself to feel better.

Trying to debate via not addressing the issue…………worthless
Being shown to do as such………priceless

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Essence Snow.3194:

Thank you for this……

If you read down a few posts from where I initially asked this question I ended up having to answer it myself.

No problem. I’m more than happy to educate the masses on things like the game’s economy. Not everyone went to college for business, so don’t beat yourself up too hard, since I already explaned that you answered your own questions yesterday. Even though you thought you didn’t understand what was going on, take heart in knowing that your efforts to question things lead to it’s own answer. That’s true enlightenment.

So Ryobe was you? You went and used a secondary account to answer a question that you refused to answer on your primary?

Roybe.5896:

You are having a problem understanding the difference between personal gain and the game’s economy, as exemplified by this question:
_________________________________________________________________________
Why are game written limitations put on all other methods of earning gold and not on trading?
_________________________________________________________________________
The game has limits on the amount of gains your character can make in a given day. True.

It does this to prevent you from having to much in personal gains/time period. False.

These limits are in place to protect the games economy. True

The game does not place limits on TP transactions, therefore this is unfair to all players because some do not make as much as others.

Wrong conclusion.

The TP does not place limits on the amount of personal gain because the TP has NO effect on the in-game money supply. (The money supply being the most protected thing in ANY well run MMO.)
_____________________________________________________________________________
In other words, by farming champs each player is continually increasing the supplies of things in the game (magically!).

If I buy and sell between myself and another person the transaction has a flat tax applied, and 2 happy people leave, one with in game coin the other with a good or service provided. A removal of coin from the game by the tax, and a trade that neither creates or destroys gold. The fact that one person (on either side of the trade) might have gotten the better of the other is part of trading.
—————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-
And what of the effects excessive amounts of gold in a very funneled proportiuon of the population have on various item prices?
——————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Now we are into a position of morality and wealth. You can spend your life tilting at this windmill. Many do, and are. Is it moral for those that can manipulate a market to do so? Should we have market regulations in place to prevent this? Does this matter in a game?

I will tell you this much. There is manipulation occurring. It lasts as long as supplies are listed at a rate that a person can purchase the item and maintain profits. It is unsustainable in this game, with possibly the exception of legendaries and precursors. However, if you think either of these prices are artificially high BECAUSE of this, I disagree. This is a simple supply and demand issue. If there were more of these items the price would be lower, or if fewer people wanted them, or people played altruistically, it would be lower.

Can someone hold the market for these items hostage? In a simple answer, no. It is just as easy to make these items as it is to come up with the hundreds, or thousands, in gold needed to purchase them. We can disagree on this point, but realistically, it is true.

So there’s two responses to your two questions, no sidestepping…

Thank you for this……

If you read down a few posts from where I initially asked this question I ended up having to answer it myself. I had been testing to see if anyone would put up a reply like this and the one I posted, but they simply wouldn’t. It was extremely amusing and the similarities to politics were remarkable.

Khally on point 2 I am not inferring they dictate prices via selling. I am however saying they dictate prices via buying. They have enough capital to sustain prices on certain items. As long as those with elevated levels of gold > supply of certain items, those items’ prices will be dictated by such. This is a product of point 1.

Oh wow b/c there shouldn’t be….lol

Let me give ya’ll an example………

1)The profit potential from the trading post is not limited because it does not create gold fueling inflation. It further is not limited because it acts as a gold sink acting as a check measure for inflation. Limiting profit potential from the trading post would act as a deterrent for those who would help serve as gold sinks. (since other methods of sinking gold effectively require more development…another issue)

All other methods create gold, thus adding to inflation. They must be regulated as such to not exceed current acceptable inflation rate checked by gold sinks….see above.

Thus we accept that one method of acquiring gold is okay with out limitation due to inflation and gold sinks.(ofc higher quality item drops could alleviate lots of this but yikes…..that’s scary)

2)The effects that funneling in game wealth has on the game is far reaching. It allows funneled methods to dictate prices on low supply items as well as item of which need surpasses supply.

As widely known items serve as incentives to play in this genre. As such players are drawn to methods or simply refute methods. The former is self defeating. The latter keeps the former in check via subjectivity. Thus we have incentive disparity, where only methods are option for obtaining certain items.

As we can see the answer to the second question gets complicated and admittedly I kinda fouled on asking that in regards to a direct answer…….oops….see I can admit when I have made a mistake…..lol

Khally.5103:

Essence Snow.3194:

Khally.5103:

I’m sorry Essence Snow, but you’re wrong. Smooth Penguin/tolunart have repeatedly answered your questions. You call it sidestepping, I call it just you not understanding the points they are trying to transmit to you.

I’ll give you my two cents, though.

Why can’t a player buy items from other players and sell them for a different price? The matter at hand is as simple as that. Why would you restrict me from buying an item at a price I want from a person selling at the price they want?

That’s great but, why am I wrong? Am I wrong b/c there are no limitations on all other methods? Am I wrong b/c those limitation don’t count b/c exploits and avoid them or knowledge can minimize them(yet not get rid of them)? You can say I’m wrong all day but with out saying why…….it’s meaningless.

I told you why. You ignored it. As you have been doing this whole time.

You told me something that did not directly pertain to the questions, just as they have time and time again.

I can make a summation of all of the posts if you like.

tolunart.2095:

Essence Snow.3194:

Please for my 5th grade mind my answer them once more in plain english, directly and to the point.

Why are game written limitations put on all other methods of earning gold and not on trading?

And what of the effects excessive amounts of gold in a very funneled proportion of the population have on various item prices?

I can formulate a direct answer if you would like an example for reference.

Direct answer from my post above:

The very nature of the TP and its component markets make artificial barriers irrelevant.

You’re welcome.

If you think that is a direct answer…wow…..a generalized answer yes, much like a fortune cookie…so generalized it covers most, yet still doesn’t answer anything specific.

As a side note…It’s odd that fortune cookies have started having less fortunes and more random sayings.

Khally.5103:

I’m sorry Essence Snow, but you’re wrong. Smooth Penguin/tolunart have repeatedly answered your questions. You call it sidestepping, I call it just you not understanding the points they are trying to transmit to you.

I’ll give you my two cents, though.

Why can’t a player buy items from other players and sell them for a different price? The matter at hand is as simple as that. Why would you restrict me from buying an item at a price I want from a person selling at the price they want?

That’s great but, why am I wrong? Am I wrong b/c there are no limitations on all other methods? Am I wrong b/c those limitation don’t count b/c exploits and avoid them or knowledge can minimize them(yet not get rid of them)? You can say I’m wrong all day but with out saying why…….it’s meaningless.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Essence Snow.3194:

tolunart.2095:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think we’ve moved beyond the discussions at hand, and now it’s become a personal crusade against people who do well in this game. There’s another word for that.
.

It always was. There’s a difference between seeking answers and seeking validation.

Then why won’t anyone answer the question directly? They always sidestep it and argue things that are not pertinent to the case at hand. I explained why they are not, yet every reply I get is exactly the same sidestep.

It’s like those congressional questions that are yes or no and the responder simply will not answer yes or no.

The questions were all answered. You just don’t understand it or won’t accept it. It’s like a 5th grader refusing to believe there is no Santa Claus. The proper term is called “denial”.

Please for my 5th grade mind my answer them once more in plain english, directly and to the point.

Why are game written limitations put on all other methods of earning gold and not on trading?

And what of the effects excessive amounts of gold in a very funneled proportion of the population have on various item prices?

I can formulate a direct answer if you would like an example for reference.

tolunart.2095:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

I think we’ve moved beyond the discussions at hand, and now it’s become a personal crusade against people who do well in this game. There’s another word for that.
.

It always was. There’s a difference between seeking answers and seeking validation.

Then why won’t anyone answer the question directly? They always sidestep it and argue things that are not pertinent to the case at hand. I explained why they are not, yet every reply I get is exactly the same sidestep.

It’s like those congressional questions that are yes or no and the responder simply will not answer yes or no.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Essence Snow.3194:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Essence Snow.3194:

It’s like simplifying factions by cancelling like terms. In our case the like terms are skill and time. What’s left are game limitations.

Profit influenced by skill in all other methods will still be limited by the game……ie a players skill cannot overcome the limits that the game has put into effect….dr… farm nerfs….dungeon reward changes…etc etc via skill.

So in essence when playing the tp the only limits is are based on individual skill and other players.

In all other methods it’s based on individual skill, time and GAME LIMITATIONS.

Again acquisition…..not creation……..

While there’s the “limitations” you speak of, or rather, Diminishing Returns (DR), there are ways around it. * Players with knowledge of how it works can effectively minimize the impact of DR. This knowledge (or skill if you’re so inclined) helps to increase your money making capabilities.*

This is your answer? Really? Players can work around the imposed limitations? Exploit or minimize?

I think we’ve move beyond the discussions at hand, and now it’s become a personal crusade against people who do well in this game. There’s another word for that.

I answered your questions in different ways, and even John’s chimed in to explain stuff. Have a good day.

Just a fyi I have plenty, JS can confirm that, it’s not about me being against players that do well. It’s simply about inequalites set forth by game limitations and the effects those have on the health of the game.

You repeated the same thing over and over again disregarding the explanation to why that thing had no bearing on the point at hand.

tolunart.2095:

Essence Snow.3194:

That’s fine and dandy and all, but it still does not address the point. Why are game written limitations put on all other methods of earning gold and not on trading?

And what of the effects excessive amounts of gold in a very funneled proportiuon of the population have on various item prices?

Neither of those points are ever addressed. Why?

PS How is money able to made off the TP finite? Mind you we have not been debating gold creation, just gold acquisition. I think you might have missed a bit there.

The very nature of the TP and its component markets make artificial barriers irrelevant. The more people engage in the game, the less money there is to be made by an individual. So when a particular market becomes too popular, the profit margins drop and someone who has invested too much of his gold loses it.

This keeps a single individual or small group from “controlling” anything. Once someone else finds “your” market, your profits drop immediately, and continue to drop as more people realize there is money to be made there. Eventually, there is no more money to be made because competitors flood the market while trying to dominate the market.

It’s like eating a pizza. If two people share a pizza, each can have half of it to himself. If six people share the same pizza, each gets a decent-sized slice. But if twelve people share the pizza, then the slices are a lot smaller. If twenty people try to share the pizza, each person gets a tiny taste of it.

Making money from the TP is largely dependent on seeking out the items that people want before everyone realizes that people want them. Once the secret is out, the profit drops quickly and you have to move on to another market.

Kinda like running a dungeon where a player has to take into consideration other players to how effective their run may or may not be, yet w/o the once a day per path gold cap limitation.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Essence Snow.3194:

It’s like simplifying factions by cancelling like terms. In our case the like terms are skill and time. What’s left are game limitations.

Profit influenced by skill in all other methods will still be limited by the game……ie a players skill cannot overcome the limits that the game has put into effect….dr… farm nerfs….dungeon reward changes…etc etc via skill.

So in essence when playing the tp the only limits is are based on individual skill and other players.

In all other methods it’s based on individual skill, time and GAME LIMITATIONS.

Again acquisition…..not creation……..

While there’s the “limitations” you speak of, or rather, Diminishing Returns (DR), there are ways around it. * Players with knowledge of how it works can effectively minimize the impact of DR. This knowledge (or skill if you’re so inclined) helps to increase your money making capabilities.*

This is your answer? Really? Players can work around the imposed limitations? Exploit or minimize?

It’s like simplifying factions by cancelling like terms. In our case the like terms are skill and time. What’s left are game limitations.

Profit influenced by skill in all other methods will still be limited by the game……ie a players skill cannot overcome the limits that the game has put into effect….dr… farm nerfs….dungeon reward changes…etc etc via skill.

So in essence when playing the tp the only limits is are based on individual skill and other players.

In all other methods it’s based on individual skill, time and GAME LIMITATIONS.

Again acquisition…..not creation……..

Smooth Penguin.5294:

John answered your question, as did I. Please scroll up.

Uhmmm…. I don’t believe so. He kinda sidestepped it. He put in info about the subject without addressing the main question.

Ya’ll keep saying skill…when skill has nothing to do with the question.

John Smith.4610:

Here is my stance on this subject:
The TP is part of Tyria and is a part of the game. Spending your time learning to interact with it is a fine way to play the game if that’s what you enjoy. It has ups and downs (including no exp, karma, achievements).

The amount of money to be made on the TP is finite. There is no way it can’t be, the TP only ever sinks money, it never creates it. The TP offers convenience to trade outside of equilibrium pricing, and if a player decides to step in and take the time and effort to consume that trade and push the trade into equilibrium, that is great for the economy. It pushed prices towards equilibrium, provides a service to those who want convenience and sinks money all at the same time.

Trading takes skill, and lots of it, it cannot be argued otherwise and here is why. Because the profit is so limited, the profit has to be split between all the people effectively trading. The lower the skill cap, the more people trading effectively, the less profit individuals make until there’s no longer a real market. If one argues that there is money to be made, then you are arguing that skill is involved.

That’s fine and dandy and all, but it still does not address the point. Why are game written limitations put on all other methods of earning gold and not on trading?

And what of the effects excessive amounts of gold in a very funneled proportiuon of the population have on various item prices?

Neither of those points are ever addressed. Why?

PS How is money able to made off the TP finite? Mind you we have not been debating gold creation, just gold acquisition. I think you might have missed a bit there.

Oh you mean like those put in place for all other methods of gold acquisition?

There are limits yes, but not ones put in place by the game. How many times do I need to repeat this? There is nothing invalid about that.

That is the difference…..the game itself makes it unbalanced…not the players.

It makes sense b/c it is something the game bounds us by. It’s dependent on the game. That’s the bit you don’t seem to understand. I do not invalidate skill at all. You keep saying I am, but I am not concerned with it, only the mechanics of the game and the bounds in which they set.

The game sets no limits on the trading post. The game sets limits on all other methods of earning gold. What’s so hard to understand there?

That limit is not enforced by the game the way it is set up. There is a difference.

Subjective

Not all prices are set by all players….we’ve covered this before.

This has next to nothing to do with individual skill. It has to do with how the game is set up. In your example if WM all played an unbalanced profession vs a team of randoms on every other profession, then it would work as an analogy.

You keep repeating the same analogies which are incorrect.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Essence Snow.3194:

All of the available 3rd party tools available alleviate the need for much skill while trading.

You spvp analogy would work if that player played on an unbalanced dominant profession.

What I am suggesting is that they balance (not completely, but at least in the same ball park) methods of obtaining gold……at least give methods similar treatment (every other method is regulated). If this game were not so heavily reliant on gold, again wouldn’t really be an issue, but alas it is.

There is a reason markets in rl are regulated. Why we don’t learn from that is a mystery to me.

1) No profession is more dominant than another. You take any profession you deem to be overpowered, and I’ll tell you that there’s a counter to it. It’s all about “skill” level of the player using the profession. When new metas appear, new counters are formulated as well. If not, then that means the person using one particular meta would be undefeated for life.

2) You keep speaking of balance, yet don’t fully understand that it already exists. The game allows you to make Gold in different ways. Trading is one way. Playing WvW is another. So is Dungeon running. So is Fractal running. So is special event farming. So is Champ trains. If a player is not skilled enough to make efficient use of what’s available in game, that’s the individual player’s fault, not Anet’s.

3) This game is heavily reliant on Gold because you make it to be that way. Sure I may have a lot of Gold in my bank, but I barely touch it. Yesterday, I spent no more than 10 Silver, and that was only due to armor repairs from WvW losses. You can play this game and have fun, without spending a lot of money in the process.

Please don’t make the mistake in thinking that the ability to make money is a game problem. If the choices you make are poor, no game mechanic will help that, outside of asking for free stuff to compensate. Also, please remember that TP players are NOT guaranteed to make money. Just because you can read a website, that doesn’t automatically make you an expert investor.

1) The key word in the analogy was “IF”. “If” one profession was unbalanced it would create issues.

2)Every other method of obtaining gold in the game besides playing the tp (and rl cash into gold) has a limit. A limit to which it doesn’t matter how efficient one is at it. They will be unable to earn past a certain point based on measures put forth by the game. Playing the trading post has no such limits.

That is one of the reasons it is unbalanced. ~Limits vs No Limits~

3) Be realistic….gold has a major impact on the game.

Please realize that unbalanced aspects of the game are far reaching. If you are on the unbalanced side and profiting as such, obviously you wouldn’t want to give such a thing up. If it didn’t have effects on others it wouldn’t matter, but we are all tied together. It’s not just about the ability to make gold, but more so what effect that gold has after the fact on the game as a whole.