Guild Wars 2

Romo.3709:

SkyChef.5432:

Still gathering feedback.

Hahaha. Made me laugh and cry at the same time.

If we keep commenting with constructive feedback or opinions, they are gathering feedback.

If we keep commenting to amuse ourselves, it’s derailing.

If we stop commenting to hear feedback, we are washed away into a land of forgotten memories.

jazzllanna.1278:

Ethics.4519:

Nabrok.9023:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Edit: I doubt you’re in any danger if you use this exploit a few times, but if you’re using it a lot (say to get your monthly crafting via salvaging for blue luck in order to craft green luck), you perhaps should stop and buy some basic kits to use instead for now.

No, the kit rarity makes absolutely no difference to the amount of luck you receive, so luck has not changed.

This goes directly against what Anet said when luck came out. If it’s actually true or not, that I’m not sure.

Actually they said the kit quality did not make a difference on luck at all.

Here is the link for you
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Copper-Fed-Salvage-O-Matic-Useless/first#post2771643

Ah, my apologies. So it seems that when it was released they said it would be affected by kit quality, but then made a small adjustment in some forum.

Thanks for the correct info

There are a lot of things wrong with this game. They just keep adding to it =(

dorin.4618:

aren’t those elemental potions bugged as well and taking +10 % more dmg instead -10% like others ?

Yes, another awesome bug that has plagued the community for far too long.

Nabrok.9023:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Edit: I doubt you’re in any danger if you use this exploit a few times, but if you’re using it a lot (say to get your monthly crafting via salvaging for blue luck in order to craft green luck), you perhaps should stop and buy some basic kits to use instead for now.

No, the kit rarity makes absolutely no difference to the amount of luck you receive, so luck has not changed.

Edited because I was wrong.

phys.7689:

dont bring up the whole level 80 debate. someone linked a post where dev said AR was supposed to be unavoidable and people werent supposed to pass 40 until new gear was released(at the time i think 30 was max AR) He even said they didnt intend players to buy res orbs to pass it.

By bringing the 80 debate in, you dilute your point, focus on the progress loss that isnt debatable. ie 30-50.

I bring it up because I don’t want to leave them out either. I was only 48 before the reset, but agree with those 80s that are posting like Weth and patrick. The devs can say what they want, but all it required was an incredibly simple fix. They capped 81, so cap it at 51 instead.

I could go on and on about how I don’t want my dog going into the kitchen, getting on the counter, or eating the food in there, but the simple fix is to move the gate from the middle of the kitchen to the front.

Carighan.6758:

I still don’t really get the point. The only real alternative would have been to add 50-69 to implement the 19 new Mistlock conditions, and can you even imagine the whining if people had to get all the AR required for that?

This thread would drown in the flood if that happened.

Oh no! You mean other people would have to put in the same time, work, and energy that we did to experience that content. That’s an outrage! What a shame! /s

Also, this thread wouldn’t exist because there would have been no equity wiped (especially if 80s kept their levels)

Bright.9160:

I wonder how long I’m going to stick around to be honest. I barely log on anymore anyway.

Agreed. I haven’t played for a week, and may only come back on just to talk with friends & help them out. The horrible two week updates and the way the company craps on the minority definitely won’t keep me returning.

Whitey.6185:

Ethics.4519:

They will most likely ban everybody currently abusing this bug.

So we’re just not supposed to use an item we paid for?

The people who made snowflakes bought gw2, and they’re just not supposed to use the content of a game for which they paid?

The best thing to do is to have the friends stay and invite one person at a time. If you have 2 or more open spots, they can either use the merge parties or have another friend join to second the kick.

Romo.3709:

Sadly as much as I’d love to see them have a taste of their own medicine, this won’t happen. Unless they have some skilled developer players that are willing to put their names up for a challenge, I really don’t see that happening. Otherwise they’d put themselves up for quite unpleasant situation, where not only their knowledge and skill will be very heavily judged, but also their overall performance. Every little mistake that they could make will be out there visible to everyone.
All I’m really asking them is to at least play that level in their own comfort of an office at the given difficulty level to at least see how frustrating and long dredge fractal really is. And how unbalanced it is compared to all other fractal levels.

They are the developers of the game, responsible for content that we play. They should be masters of mechanics since they designed the gameplay.

If they make a mistake, I’m sure there would be more understanding players here than there would be people that say “lol omg you stink”. But my guess is they wouldn’t accidently aggro an extra mob or accidently miss a dodge, it would just be downright horrible.

I don’t recall seeing good play from the developers. They stream with one weapon set, auto attacking on arguably the worst weapon set for the profession, they aren’t fully geared, and had what seemed to be no strategy. Yet they design not fun challenging, but tedious and annoyingly challenging content all the while not listening to the player base.

(in direct reference to dredge)

They will most likely ban everybody currently abusing this bug.

Thanks Sanderinoa. Appreciate the explanations.

The only time I run a mantra build is in Lupi fights and I bring healing, mantra of pain, and stability, along with feedback.

Is that what you generally run most dungeons, changing the mantras depending on what you need (such as interrupts/condition cleanse)?

Latinkuro.9420:

this way my earlier progress is NOT simply flushed down the toilet.

I agree, however they seem to not understand this concept.

l2dodge

+1. No dev codes.

Tip: You might want to bring full accessories and a 2nd weapon set.

spoj.9672:

Ruby orbs are only 2% better than scholar runes without the 10% bonus. Thats a barely noticeable difference. You may aswell take scholar runes so your direct damage is better and your reflects are better.

That seems barely worth it, as my direct damage is equivalent of a cleric axebear ranger with his bear dead.

As for the reflects part, that’s interesting. I’m sure bosses like Lupi, CoF p1, Archdiviner, etc would be worth it, but I’d almost rather have the 2% for my clones 24/7 rather than the 10% in certain instances for my reflects.

I don’t know, I’d have to do math, and math is hard.

Zelyhn.8069:

Wow … merging …
Nice way to get this thread – which is not about the Fractured living story update but more about the way Anet deals with its customers – out of the way of the broad public in the general discussion subforum.

This actually was in the general discussion and that got shut down, which I believe is when Lilith moved it here.

What was even merged?

Does it even matter?

What is the meaning of life?

What is the question?

jportell.2197:

Yeah the inspiration traits are swapped consistently in dungeons depending on the fight. Glamour mastery sees it way in there quite a bit. Restorative mantras is way stronger than you give credit for look at pyro’s “Overpowered Phantasm Dungeon build” That is a backbone to a dungeon mesmer. Spamming mantra of pain while your phantasms do the attack rotation is a good way to keep a group alive in fights that slowly tick away at you.

This is true if the players you play with are bad and need healing. In which case I’d rather just not play with them than heal them.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

Ruby orbs really aren’t good on Mesmers at all.

Can you go into more detail about why they aren’t good? or a link with more information?

I know that scholar runes won’t work for phantasms (well the 10% anyway), so I figured orbs was the next best choice.

jportell.2197:

Gear is all Zerker, Runes are scholar.

The 10% extra damage does not effect your phantasms. I wouldn’t say ruby orbs are definitely better (as I’m not sure either way), but for the money they are.

Also, I don’t agree with your trait set up. Replace persisting images with glamour mastery and get rid of restorative mantras

Kal Spiro.9745:

A company can’t gauge value based on feelings.

The point of this thread is to make them aware of this. They can gauge value based on feelings when we tell them how we feel and value them.

I was glad when you stopped posting. Please cease arguing just for the sake of arguing.

Kal Spiro.9745:

I kind of want to hope that this is even the case with respect to the PvPers that are getting a title

What? There is no difference. They are having levels reset that are meaningless and not valued to the majority of the players. They are getting a title (at least some compensation) and are even being told so well before hand. How is this any different? Hint: It’s not.

Lighter.5631:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Ethics.4519:

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Lighter.5631:

There’s no reason not to do it tbh.

It could cause issues on the already transmuted ones.

How?

It’s an entirely different piece now.

No, it’s not. Old Fractal weapons are still weapons and as such, they need a transmutation crystal to be fused with another weapon’s stat. There are thousands of old Fractal weapons in use these days. If you were to change the item type from Weapon to Skin, it is extremely likely that it will mess up every pre-patch Fractal weapon.
Remember that they don’t just become a new item while transmuted, otherwise things like the Transmutation Splitter would not be possible in their current state..

what, your post doesn’t make any sense.

Are you talking about the old unused ones or the old used ones.

If old used ones, again, it’s an entirely different item now.

If you’re talking about old unused ones, we should be allowed to take them to a merchant and get the new skin version. Exactly the same as they did with soulbound to account gathering tools.

And technically be compensated for gems spent on crystals (just like they did for the tools), but that’s an entirely different story.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Lighter.5631:

There’s no reason not to do it tbh.

It could cause issues on the already transmuted ones.

How?

It’s an entirely different piece now.

BeoErgon.9107:

To Swiftpaw:
Your point, was to say that doing all the content was not better than skipping it.
Your point was to say that playing the game entirely needed an announcement beforehand to prevent poor experiences for the PUGs (this made me laugh)

Why should you come here, in a post of someone that likes that kind of play and searches for companions and say that its a faulted way of playing?

OP’s reason is that you should kill all mobs so that you can make best use of MF.

Most of the other people counter this saying it’s better to just use the fastest build possible, then go farm world events that have much more mobs with better drops (you can even play how you want without effecting other people nearly as much) with the time you save by running a fast/efficient path.

Protoavis.9107:

Which isn’t difficult when the last several pages are just the same 3 people bumping the thread and other people saying it’s time to move on….

Honestly looking at this thread for the last week or so and it’s difficult to not come out with thinking “only three people care and they aren’t being pleasant about how they express it”

more flies with honey than vinegar.

We’re not being pleasant? We gave constructive feedback at first and expressed ourselves clearly.

When Anet didn’t respond, and we have people in here making the same stupid arguments over and over again because they refused to read from the beginning, it gets derailing and frustrating.

Obviously Arena net thinks that when you erase or wipe equity/progress you should be compensated, so why aren’t we?

I think you can understand how frustrating it is when you lose something that you valued, then people come in and either tell you A) You don’t deserve compensation B ) It was stupid to value it in the first place or C) Just shut up and go with it. Especially when the majority of those people didn’t lose anything.

IceVyper.6810:

They said they are gathering feedback. Just because everyone here is impatient, they cannot and won’t come out with a comment unless they have decided on a course of action. We will see if and when that happens.

I would like to hear an answer just as much as you do.

They already made a decision and commented on the t3 human “flameseeker” skin and have already made a decision and commented on the PvP ranks being reset.

They obviously realized that resetting progression is never the right way to go (PvP) and equity (cultural) yet refuse to even acknowledge what they did to high level fractal players.

If they were gathering feedback they would have commented by now. They are just trying to ignore us and let us fade away.

Estriella Faerie.4029:

As the reset of PvP ranks had been used to express our feelings on our own level reset, it is interesting to see that Anet is now saying they will put out this ranking system. Yet, the way they are handling this seems quite different from the way they handle us…

“Once ladders are implemented, ranks will be retired. To honor the effort that players have put into the rank system, existing players will be able to keep all unlocked rank finishers and will earn a special title based on your rank to show that you were there from the start.”

Lol, jeesh, I wonder where they got that great idea from…..

Certainly not all the haters in here saying it’s different, we deserve nothing.

Tentonhammr.7849:

You keep saying Exploiters, but what you don’t know or don’t understand is there are people out there who solo/duo every path in the game (including Arah)100% WITHOUT exploits. And yes, that includes soloing Lupi. YouTube it if you don’t believe us.

There are 3 types of path sellers:

1. Scammers who pug and kick
2. Eploiters who take advantage of bugs/skips
3. LEGIT solo players who do everything by the book

Report 1 and 2, and leave 3 out of the conversation entirely, because they’re not doing anything wrong.

Thank you. And until you (OP) have proof of 1, 2, or 3, don’t assume that everybody falls into 1 or 2 only.

Nikku.3562:

This please. Mai’s fight is a perfect situation for making control skills fun and useful in a challenging boss encounter. I can’t understand why it was left to dodgy aggro mechanics to get her into a circle when we have a pile of skills designed to do just that but which we cannot use.

There was a boss similar to this when the Crown Pavilion was closed and you had to open it back up (I think). I forget the details, but you had to pull, CC, knockback, etc the boss into an aoe to damage him/her/it.

It was incredibly fun and a refreshing mechanic.

I’m getting sick and tired of everything being defiant.

ParadoX.3124:

Proff is Lupicus Wp.

I shall assume this is 100% sarcasm. Cuz… well…. come on.

You know people already tried this when Robert (RIP in peace) suggested it and it failed miserably. The people that post here are here to find the best strategy, builds, group, etc to clear stuff as fast and as efficient as possible.

But sure, have fun taking 5-10x as long in dungeons. Nobody is stopping you.

SkyChef.5432:

@ Lilith & Ethics

I basically just run w/ my family guild & nothing else lately in addition to several old friends known from the LFG guild when they are bored w/ pug. But Lilith & Ethics, you can add me to your list if you don’t want to run w/ pug. At least from many of your post history, I know you guys don’t use the build of the developers from twitch tv. Or the afk skill.
I love that stream and it tells everything of everything.

Perfect, consider yourself added.

If I bring my thief, I usually only bring P/P and I make sure to only use my heal when i’m at full health for that OP stealth + #1 skill.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

sorry for you guys but trust me if you have done it you just sit around at 50 and have no reason to ever enter a fractal again.. rewards are still not worth it to do fractals over just some mindless afk farmruns. And somehow I am still stuck with the “loosing Progress Thing” it makes working for somthing at least for me pretty meaningles..
I don’t know the Feeling that it doesn’t matter and everything you do can be reseted is way worse than the actualy reset itself( well the actual reset caused the Feeling but still).

I was afraid of this. And the whole reset has kept me relatively distant from fractals. I mean, we’ll most likely just get reset back to 30 or lower when 51+ comes out… cuz… leaderboards…. yeah.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

We do need a group of like minded individuals. Although as you know Ethics I’m terrible so I’m not sure I belong with this crew. Lol

You’re good as long as you’re not distracted =)

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Aw, Moshari…

I am at lvl 31. Guild groups have been bad, and pugs have been worse. I’ve resorted to boss events in pve and chatting in LA in my time playing. It’s not worth the trouble.

I just PMed him and invited him to play with my guild groups. We should form a random collection of people who are upset about the reset and tired of pugging with bads party for fotm =).

I’m still at 31. Unfortunately, it was a guild group, however some of the may have been under the influence and not really comprehending what was going on lol.

For the Record, I love my guild, they just tend to lose focus easily in dungeons/fotm.

Asko.4120:

Ethics.4519:

Asko.4120:

The reading comprehension issues follow: As I said, you can’t know what kind of difficulty scaling they will add into the game and how the instabilities will affect the gameplay without playing it first, so can you stop your pointless ranting about atm-unexisting high level fractals being made easy?

This doesn’t matter. They reset our progress. It’s about equity. You seem to be jumping into this conversation pretty late, so I’d recommend reading previous posts from all the other people who argued the same thing before you rehash the same thing 20 times.

Deleted my posts.

That doesn’t stop you from reading the previous answers to your question.

I believe I remember your posts, and it’s for the better they were removed.

deSade.9437:

If you manage to find pugs that buff you, please send me a screenie, I really want to see a miracle before I die.

I stand by the gate on my mesmer and call dibs on the closest brazier. I stand waiting to pop SOI, hoping some guard uses empower or some random war uses FGJ. Most the time I just get a “Get to your position” in party chat, oh well. Either that or “lol, you wanna do controller?”

If you can aim whirlwind correctly, you can get it so you’re stopped by the controller and all hits land. If you aim too far to the side, you slide off and waste a bunch of time. Your call

maxinion.8396:

Have we finally found the legendary King of the Play-How-I-Wants???

One King to rule them all.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Thing is, would my report change anything. It’s really about how ANet feels on the matter. Back before the AC revamp ANet were “okay” with people getting up the stairs and shooting the howling king from there with 0 risk. They were “okay” as in – it wasn’t a bannable offense and everybody was doing it.

Now the same thing happens, and even though I disagree with it, it doesn’t seem ANet is punishing violators. Idk if they are busy preparing some massive dungeon content overhaul or something, but the way dungeons are now is ridiculous.

and @Ethics the examples you gave have logic behind them. I just can’t find the logic in buying a dungeon path from an exploiter. It’s like supporting gold selling (to me at least)

The exploit you talked about, is a bannable offense. All exploits are. If you report somebody for doing it, I’m sure eventually they would receive a temp-ban.

As for my example, I can’t find the logic in paying somebody $80 to change my oil (synthetic, turbo) when I can do it myself for much cheaper. However, tons of peeople do, and I’m okay with it.

For the last time though, you are accusing people of exploiting/scamming which is against the TOS. You have NO PROOF that every sell exploits. Those that do, you should report in game.

Ravenmoon.5318:

Ethics.4519:

I think it’s fine. If you don’t think it’s right, then don’t buy the paths.

Arena net has already said it’s an acceptable practice unless the seller exploited/scams. In which case you need proof before you go around throwing out accusations.

The thing is that most sellers exploit and glitch the dungeons. I made the mistake of joining one guildie in his run (I didn’t pay of course since it was “free”) and there was so much wall texture glitching, I just wanted to puke. And he also skipped Lupicus.

I find it hillarious for such people to keep abusing the game and ANet not taking an action. :|

And why would someone need the tokens when they are paying 20g+? Taking into consideration you need like 3-4 paths of full reward thats 60-80 gold, you can buy complete exotics from the TP this way o.O with the insignia you want not the one provided by dungeon gear o.o

Then you should report him in game and leave it at that. It’s actually against the TOS to accuse somebody (anybody, or a group of people) of exploiting/scamming/cheating/hacking/etc on the forums.

The look of dungeon gear can only be bought in dungeons with tokens. A lot of people sell and a lot of people buy, so why are you in such desperate need to know why people buy paths?

Why do people pay to have somebody cut their hair? Why do people pay to have somebody change their oil? They see the service as being worth the price, so they don’t have to do it.

I think it’s fine. If you don’t think it’s right, then don’t buy the paths.

Arena net has already said it’s an acceptable practice unless the seller exploited/scams. In which case you need proof before you go around throwing out accusations.

Asko.4120:

The reading comprehension issues follow: As I said, you can’t know what kind of difficulty scaling they will add into the game and how the instabilities will affect the gameplay without playing it first, so can you stop your pointless ranting about atm-unexisting high level fractals being made easy?

This doesn’t matter. They reset our progress. It’s about equity. You seem to be jumping into this conversation pretty late, so I’d recommend reading previous posts from all the other people who argued the same thing before you rehash the same thing 20 times.

Arewn.2368:

They reworked how you progress, so they reset your progress. Don’t really feel like it’s something to get up in arms about, and it’s a fairly normal practice in MMOs.

Thanks for the clarification. If only we would have known this in the first place we could have accepted the huge rollback much easier. Where were you 30 pages ago?

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Ethics.4519:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

JMar.3254:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Ethics.4519:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

How about the amount of gems we spent on our fractal weapons and the transmute crystals? How about the weapons we got that aren’t skins (they say it’s a technical issue with these, but they literally could put an npc like the gathering tool one so we could exchange). These are monetary and reward issues. Do we deserve compensation? Or do we not deserve anything at all, according to you?

That tools things is stupid and those people shouldn’t have gotten anything at all. I’m totally on board with that. I really can’t imagine why they gave in to that one at all, let alone is short order. They wanted a tool for each of their characters, so they bought one for each. That was wrong.

They shouldn’t have? That was the only possible outcome, according to some people in this forum.

A coin can only land on heads. Obviously.

Unless we discuss alternate realities of course.

Quantum fizzics ftw.

I’m still very glad that the armor got such a quick and appropriate response, while this issue continues to be in discussion.

Although I would not like to see “Nope, sorry guys, this is in the best interest of the game”, it would still be better than silence.

I can only assume that there is as much debate in meetings as there is on the forums

I sure hope so….

I hope they’re not just in their meetings, laughing at us….

By excess delay of response. It seems yes.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

JMar.3254:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Ethics.4519:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

How about the amount of gems we spent on our fractal weapons and the transmute crystals? How about the weapons we got that aren’t skins (they say it’s a technical issue with these, but they literally could put an npc like the gathering tool one so we could exchange). These are monetary and reward issues. Do we deserve compensation? Or do we not deserve anything at all, according to you?

That tools things is stupid and those people shouldn’t have gotten anything at all. I’m totally on board with that. I really can’t imagine why they gave in to that one at all, let alone is short order. They wanted a tool for each of their characters, so they bought one for each. That was wrong.

They shouldn’t have? That was the only possible outcome, according to some people in this forum.

A coin can only land on heads. Obviously.

Unless we discuss alternate realities of course.

Quantum fizzics ftw.

I’m still very glad that the armor got such a quick and appropriate response, while this issue continues to be in discussion.

Although I would not like to see “Nope, sorry guys, this is in the best interest of the game”, it would still be better than silence.

I can only assume that there is as much debate in meetings as there is on the forums

Kal Spiro.9745:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

How about the amount of gems we spent on our fractal weapons and the transmute crystals? How about the weapons we got that aren’t skins (they say it’s a technical issue with these, but they literally could put an npc like the gathering tool one so we could exchange). These are monetary and reward issues. Do we deserve compensation? Or do we not deserve anything at all, according to you?

That tools things is stupid and those people shouldn’t have gotten anything at all. I’m totally on board with that. I really can’t imagine why they gave in to that one at all, let alone is short order. They wanted a tool for each of their characters, so they bought one for each. That was wrong.

They shouldn’t have? That was the only possible outcome, according to some people in this forum.

I’m not reading the rest, but from what I noticed:

1) Mossman bugged out in the water and stopped attacking, he did however stay there and was able to be hit

2) Ascalon: The NPCs charge in more. This makes it more challenging to pull/LOS unless you coordinate with somebody to stay behind. Also, they seem to have gotten AR, because they did not all wipe at the very first AR attack.

3) The zoom was also reduce on fire shaman in the grawl fractal.

Wethospu.6437:

conn.2097:

Hahahahahaha
They’re totally listening to ‘our’ Feedback.

Stupid skin way more important than the effort people put into leveling fractals to 80.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Flamekissed-Armor-Skin

Clearly stuff happens with enough support/whining.

Thanks for all the people who didn’t let us have a chance. Hopefully you feel good about yourself.

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

I can’t believe they made a quick/fast comment about that but not this issue that has over 30 pages of comments

Paradox.5498:

I can’t believe this is anyone’s idea of “balancing” Dredge fractal. It has been the least popular fractal of all since fractals were implemented in the first place. The only attention it ever got was making it harder and more frustrating and even less popular.

Now it won’t be doable by most pugs and it’ll always be the third fractal in a series, so it’ll be harder to avoid. Well, I can see why it ain’t meant to be skippable easily. But the reasons people want to avoid it never got addressed, quite the contrary:

Underground Facility haters have gotten shafted every single patch that paid attention to fractals.

I agree completely. Instead of looking at why people skip and do things the way they do, then fixing THOSE issues, they just put in hard measures to stop you from doing them.

It’s another case where bugs or mechanics that help the players are changed while bugs/mechanics that hurt the players are left there.

lordkrall.7241:

Fror.2163:

The only instability we saw so far is a real joke. That is no challenge. It might be annoying in the dredge fractal because we kill so many and in cliffside because we’re forced to camp at some points, but challenging? Never.

It was also one of the first, so one can assume it is also one of the easiest.

Lol one of the first. 9th instability out of 19, definitely one of the first.

The dev pretty much outright said they reset levels to appease people that weren’t that high. They are straight up hurting those that actually enjoyed the content and played it, in order to appease the people who didn’t find it interesting.

This game will always be a casual vs hardcore player battle, and unfortunately, with this staff, casual will always win.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Ask ethics, though, I’m bad and I have a potty mouth.

No comment. Apparently I’m just a filthy elitist though, that’s what I get for expecting my party to be competent.

(Not directed at you lilith =))

Still no comment by an anet developer? Why do I expect more?

You tell us to talk in one location so we argue/discuss/whine back and forth. We constantly ask for some sort of feedback or comment just to see if we are getting anywhere, and no response. Seems appropriate.