Guild Wars 2

Hunter.4783:

All of you people QQing about guard mobility have yet to try Runes of the Traveler.

They are literally designed around the guardian.

All stats – good for guard
Boon duration – good for guard
Condi duration – good for guard
Perma 25% movement speed – hell yeah

Now you can chain hammer with GS or hammer and Sw/f while keeping up with the more mobile classes. I don’t know if you guys realise it but thanks to this latest addition, Sword 2 and GS 3 we are able to keep up with most classes but a GS warrior and thief.

Not available in PvP, play bunker or you’re not wanted.

Guardians might have low mobility by design but this game has turned into a ranged AoE spamfest, doesn’t matter whether it’s power or condition based. Most damage and viable professions are ranged and a lot of it is AoE. Or pet based while the enemy is ranged.

Guardians don’t have the survivability to be competitive anymore outside of a full boring bunker spec.

Utterly pigeonholed and bland stagnant profession, been playing the exact same role since release, every group might have one but they are all carbon copies of one another.

As soon you join a game you are expected to be a bunker, sit alone at mid and roll around to just stay alive while asking for the others to come and kill any enemies.

The Guardian needs more access to Swiftness so that more play-styles and builds become viable, I don’t see the ranged AoE spam nature of the game changing anytime soon, so unless Guardian survivability outside of a bunker spec is improved then GW2’s slowest most melee based profession will continue to be nonviable outside of bunker.

Zeal line 5pt trait Zealot’s Speed should change to Gain 5s of Swiftness upon weapon swap.

Or give us a 10pt trait in Virtues that gives us 20 or 25% speed when wielding melee weapons.

It is quite frankly DIABOLICAL and has been since release, even when it was patched to fix accuracy issues. Which did nothing.

Half the time I use this skill I end up leaping in the OPPOSITE direction of my target.

This is a massive issue in PvP where as the slowest profession with the least ranged options in the game it is a key gap closer.

Either sort out the accuracy for this leap ability (I see no issues with Thieves leaping the in wrong direction with Heartseeker.) Or make it into a teleport.

It’s so frustrating losing a fight because instead of leaping to close the gap and engage the target that’s trying to keep range you leap in the opposite direction extending the gap to 1200 and providing the perfect range for your enemy to finish you off easily.

Shield of Wrath is 45 seconds not 25s, either get a clue Darnis.4056 or stop trolling with deliberately false information.

As for the OP, as you are a Necro, just drop Reaper’s Mark with an unblockable Fear.

Kwll.1468:

NevirSayDie.6235:

Disengage abilities are already extremely powerful for many professions. Slower speed in combat prevents one person being able to permanently survive vs. any number of opponents just by being faster, because an out-of-combat opponent will catch him.

Yes, but everyone in combat moves at a slower speed including the chasers and speed increasing abilties work in combat so this still can kind of happen.

because an out-of-combat opponent will catch him

out-of-combat opponent will catch him

out-of-combat opponent

out-of-combat

Eh, Grenades are usually thrown at the feet making them virtually impossible to avoid.

Grenades have a huge range of condi’s especially with Incendiary Powder trait.

Poison Grenades can stack 1 minute of Poison in 3 seconds in AoE on a point.

Grenades are utterly spammable at melee range and have a very low skill level required, you don’t need to target your enemy at all, just run in circles around the point throwing grenades at the middle, easy win.
If you get caught in melee drop slick shoes and enjoy watching your opponent be continually knocked down at least twice, maybe 3 times if he tries to stun break. So 4-6s of knockdown.

In the Solo PvP queue.

Go AFK
Watch daytime TV
Wash the dishes
Take the bin out
Do laundry
Clear the garden of Autumn leaves
Eat sand
Stand in a queue
Watch paint dry
Go to work
Play Raid on the Capricorn

But even with this bug the condi meta is still too strong….

Guardian’s have played the same role in PvP since launch, utterly pigeonholed and the specs have not changed much.
Boons, condi removal, rolling around on the floor, rezzes and finishers on mid point.

DPS Guardians lack the ability to stay on targets, and you HAVE to take Altruistic Healing or Healing Meditations or you get ripped apart too quickly due to low hp.

Symbols don’t do enough damage, and also don’t seem to provide enough support, they aren’t good enough for team mates to sit on them in team fights.
Attempting to stand in a Guardian’s symbols in a team fight would mean dying to AoE damage and melee cleave.

So they don’t provide enough boon support to the team and AH procs for the Guardian in team fights. They generally don’t do much damage either as GW2 has such a large amount of ranged damage.

Symbols take too many traits for basic benefits, they need a real trait to make them more mobile and versatile against the AoE spam that GW2 has always had.

We need a trait that makes Symbols into auras that provide 1s pulses of boons and damage around the Guardian for the 5s duration.
Make it a Grandmaster trait that replaces Battle Presence.

That trait alone provides a whole range of options for Bunker, Support, DPS and Solo Guardians. Diversifying the build possibilities for GW2’s most stagnant profession.

Crapgame.6519:

Ezrael.6859:

ITT a sub-par WvW Guardian that relies on gear discrepancy whines about the thread title.

Probably should check that comment because there are several players here, who posted, which don’t mention gear discrepancy, whine, and provided feed back. Go figure. Oh, I’ll up you one. They actually provide input to the community via builds, videos, and active participation in various threads.

I think most people are over the title now believe it or not since the feedback was accepted, thought about, and people have since moved on. Well, except maybe you?

But hey, let us beat the dead horse and keep it on the front page so it isn’t forgotten!!!!

a

One.

Not several, thanks for the long useless paragraph of defensiveness though.

The comment was direct at a certain Guardian who plays badly in his videos, by misusing several skills; Can’t time Shield of Wrath with Flashing Blade, doesn’t use Ray properly, can’t use Chains of Light either to guarantee damage with Smite or interrupt an opponent, always misses Zealot’s Flame, doesn’t know how to maximise the damage and burning from Zealot’s Flame even though he uses a condition based burning build >.<
But somehow manages to win 1v1s, most likely because of a gear discrepancy from WvW.

And this person had the audacity to make a bad comment towards Azshene in this thread, a player whose skill level is far higher than (a Guardian) will ever achieve.

In all, your defense of several Guardians was unnecessary because only one was ever the subject.

ITT a sub-par WvW Guardian that relies on gear discrepancy whines about the thread title.

Little known fact: Not every designer at ArenaNet is responsible for balance, some of them do other tasks and will actually respond to those issues.
Like implementing Sigil ideas!

Throwing more and more bodies at class balance would not help either, you need a coherent vision to balance classes properly and not too many cooks in the kitchen.

Perhaps if the OP spent less time writing long incoherent rants complaining about what work each dev does and educated himself about some basic things he’s look like less of a clueless wolly.

Tetsuo Ryuu.1687:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Hey guys,

We agree with you. This has been something that has been greatly discussed and is definitely on our radar. There isn’t a time frame set yet, but I just just wanted to let you know it is something we are looking to change for the future. Sorry I can’t give more details at this time.

Sure.
But how will you handle the fact that right now crafting a 1H weapon has almost the same cost as crafting a 2H?
So far the excuse given was that 2x 1H meant two sigils, but now?

An ascended dagger differs from an ascended GS just for 1 ingot.
But while you are fine using just the GS, you need 2 daggers (or a dagger and a sword, pistol, etc.).

That is NOT balanced at all.

It is completely balanced as these are the sPvP forums and we don’t need any irrelevant chatter about PvE crafting of ascended weapons here.

Runes of Speed +25% speed bonus doesn’t seem to work in PvP.

Could we get these in sPvP?

Also, the current Runes of Speed +25% movement speed bonus doesn’t work in sPvP.

Shelter is easily interrupted by Reaper’s Mark.

You can be stunned by Static Field and interrupted.

In can be interrupted by Wail of Doom.

In can be interrupted by Tripwire.

I can be interrupted by Magnet.

It can be interrupted by using Basilisk Venom and an unblockable skill like Larcenous Strike, or a Thief trap.

It can be interrupted by Corrupt Boon if you have Stability at the time.

Shelter can be interrupted through any number of Warrior Daze/Knockdown/Launch/Stun/Push skills if they use Signet of Might.

It can be interrupted by an accidental dodge and goes on full cooldown.

I’m sure I’ve seen it interrupted by either Spectral Wall or the proc from Nightmare runes also.

There are plenty of ways to interrupt this skill, and when you do you stop all the blocks, and put the heal on a 30s cooldown. Get good skill spammer.

Oh and it can be interrupted by ‘Pull’ 2nd component of Guardian GS Binding Blades.

ArenaNet seems incapable of addressing the real problems.

The game has been condition heavy since launch, it has always dominated the meta in one form or another.

That and the massive amount of AoE in the game from cleaving weapons and huge AoE ranged attacks across several weapons and utility skills.

The devs acknowledged months ago that AoE was too strong and they would tone it down, nothing has been done since then, they have in fact increased the amount of AoE.

At least this game is free, I’m just playing occasionally until Star Citizen starts to launch.

Leap of Faith has terrible accuracy and coding issues.
50% of my leaps this evening took me in the opposite direction to my target.

Binding Blade used to work where players that tried to run away from the Guardian when bound would automatically be pulled back. ~ This would be better.

The Guardian may have builds but they are all Shout / Meditation based.
Sanctuary gets used as a way to help rezz because Signet of Mercy is a diabolical skill even after it’s buff.

Bane Signet offers a good bonus with power, but the cast time for the k/d is too long (it also seems to last no time at all as the target instantly gets back up) and the damage too weak for the long 40s cool down you suffer with no passive bonus.

Signet of Mercy has a horrible bonus with +180 healing power.

Signet of Wrath is pretty bad with condition damage as the Guardian only has access to burning.

Signet of Judgement while sounding good with 10% damage reduction isn’t actually worth it. The meta has been condition heavy since release and you’re far better off building utility skills to remove conditions and practising dodging to avoid big direct damage attacks instead.

Wall of Reflection works for about 2s till people stop casting ranged attacks and run through it to hit you, even in the middle of a big team fight it doesn’t contribute enough to warrant a utility slot, too obvious and easily avoided.

Purging Flames does far too little damage for its recharge, even lowered.
Even in a condition build. Yes you can run in and out of the ring to remove a condition, but this means you’re doing no damage and a sitting duck to take more damage, if you’re crippled or chilled it’s not viable.

Hallowed Ground while sounding like a good idea means that everyone has to come into melee range for Stability (usually on a point) GW2 has a massive issue with AoE damage, cleaving and high damage ranged attacks, being a melee in this game can be an utter pain and uphill struggle.
Bringing Hallowed Ground makes you a masochist that wants to subject all of your team to the joys of being a Guardian or Warrior in a ranged condition/AoE heavy game.

And Spirit Weapons. Even when invulnerable they weren’t used that often because they were slow, had very long cool downs and didn’t do a huge amount of damage.
Then ArenaNet gave them 3k hp and no one has used them since.
Too little HP, too little damage when they will only last a few seconds and too long till you can use them again. Just a waste of a utility slot.

Change Retaliation to act more like Aegis.

One hit removes it, base damage of 1000.
Damage formula of 1000 + 0.067 x Power. (1134 at 2000 Power).
Most skills grant around 3 seconds of Retaliation and would now grant this single charge of Retaliation for 3 seconds.

Gaining multiple sources of Retaliation without being hit would only add to the duration, it would still only have 1 charge.

Symbol of Wrath would add 1s of Retaliation every pulse but if no one attacked then when the symbol finished there would just be 1s of Retaliation left and counting down.

This works well to advance AoE mechanics too as each charge of Retaliation can only hit one person.
So even if you lay Symbol of Wrath down inside a bunch of people while they are hitting you only one person will remove the Retaliation each time it was added by the Symbol and it could be a different person each time.

It would make Retaliation more tactical in it’s use and therefore also create a more tactical decision to look out for it and plan your attacks, multi-hit attacks are now punished less and high damage attacks take more than they currently do.

For example:
Whirling Wrath makes 14 hits and takes about 2s to complete, currently if I stand on top of someone with 3s of Retaliation and use it I will take 2926 damage in Retaliation.
With the new system I propose I would take one hit for around 1100 and the Retaliation is removed.

I think this would be much better.

Just remember that if there are that many targets for you to hit with the GS and get healing from, there’s also that many targets to hit you back.

This doesn’t matter so much in PvEasy where the mobs are poor, but GS healing won’t sustain you in PvP. ~ You’re generally gonna take anywhere between 2-5k of Retaliation damage when using Whirling Wrath vs that many PvP targets.

Plus all of the general AoE, ground casts and cleave damage to absorb that goes with being a melee in this game.

Just Protection, so jumping in casting 3 and leaving will see you with 9s of Regeneration left and no Protection.

Tome of Wrath on the other hand you can jump in cast Might and Swiftness, pop back and still have both.

Now that the Skill #3 on both Tomes affects the caster also these Tomes have become more viable in a few different ways.

However, casting Protective Spirit will give the Guardian +10s of Regen and Protection but when exiting the Tome the Protection is removed as it is part of the initial skill transformation, even if you gain additional Protection from another player while using the Tome.
This is very limiting and diminishes the different possibilities with this Tome.

If anything, Symbol traits need to be sorted out and moved together.

If you play with two Symbol weapons you have to take III in Honour, it’s compulsory and silly, their default size should be higher.

55 Points across two lines just for Symbols is mad.

But so are Spirit Weapons for us.
30 in Zeal, 20 in Radiance, 10 in Virtues to get all Spirit traits…

Your comment makes no sense.

Even if you had a build with a Torch and were applying Burning constantly, you will still only get a 54 DPS increase from a Grandmaster trait if you have 2200 Power…

That’s horrible.

You merged Zealous Blade into Greatsword Power and made a decent Master trait out of it (good job).

And then somehow, you managed to replace one of the worst Grandmaster traits in the game with an even worse trait.

Kindled Zeal is useless, utterly useless.

For going 30 points deep into the Power trait line, it’s horrible, such horrible design.

The potential impact it has is worth a place as an Adept level trait, nothing more and even then I wouldn’t take it because it’s utterly pointless.
At 30 points into Zeal a DPS based Guardian will have around 2200 Power, giving us 220 Condition damage.

Burning damage goes from 328 -> 382.

54… 54 more burning damage, even if we could apply burning so often that we had it on our targets permanently that’s an increase of 54 DPS for a 30 point Grandmaster trait.
Realistically we apply burning around once every 2~3 seconds.
So a 27 or 18 DPS increase from a Grandmaster trait.

How did this get made into a Grandmaster trait? It’s a terrible idea and how did it get approved?

It’s embarrassing!

Blurred Frenzy utterly warps the Mesmer into another realm of Risk vs Reward all by itself.

A 2s melee cleaving attack that does decent damage and includes 2s of Invulnerability on an 8-10s cool down…

Which is why I believe it needs to be changed to 2s of Protection, so that there is some Risk vs Reward built into this awesome damage combo skill, like every other Profession has some Risk vs Reward when trying to burst, especially in melee with all the cleave and general AoE in this game.

The Mesmer currently avoids all of this, Blurred Frenzy for an Invulnerable damage combo. Then use Phase Retreat or Blink to get away straight after…
(The 1 time of 10 that everything isn’t dead afterwards).

Empathetic Fighter.2065:

For me personally the warrior is the only real melee class in this game, which explains why they are in such a handicapped state.

Warrior’s have far more ranged attacks than Guardians.
And 5 ways to cripple (that can become 1s immobilizes in addition to 3 other immobilizes)
…

Mesmers will be even more insane if this is true.
Seriously~

Let’s create a new condition that punishes people for moving (away from or towards their attacker).
This will be a huge benefit for those classes who have low mobility and suffer from issues staying in range of their targets.

Instead of giving it to the two classes with the lowest mobility (Warrior and Guardian).

We’ll give it to the two classes with the highest mobility (Thief and Mesmer).

…

Cleansing Flame is still a terribad skill even with the changes to Burning and the 20% reduction for Torch skills.

Oh and talking about Consecrated Ground bugs ~ How about the bug where it also makes Sanctuary last for 10s along with the 1/4 second cast time.

Lighter.5631:

Ezrael.6859:

Lighter.5631:

but guardian definitely have one of the better diversity.

That’s why 90% of tournament Guardians run a 0/0/10/30/30 – Cleric’s Amulet, Shouts, Sanctuary, Hammer / Scepter Shield bunker spec then.

say what, i see alot of GS and focus as well, and 99% of the time i sent in pvp, i play tournaments. thanks for dishing out lies tho.

http://forums.intothemists.com/index.php?/topic/46-top-gw2-tournament-builds/

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-7s-3xFKOFk40J3kF-90;9;69TT;44;041A289U;01U;1ZF18ZF183NG

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-7s-Fw;0NF-40B3RG-90;9;69TT;44;043A289U;01U;1ZF18ZF183RL

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-73dFwFKOF-40B3RG-90;9;69TT;44;014A2897wG0U;1ZF18ZF183Rj

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-7FwZ-FKOF-40B3RG-90;9;69TT;44;014A28973m6;2ZF18ZF183RD

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-7Fws-FKOF-40M3NG-90;9;69TT;44;018A1894wl6;2ZF18ZF189RC

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-7s-3x;0NFk40J3kF-90;9;69TT;44;017A189;6ZF18ZF188Rr

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-7Z-3dFKOFk40J3kF-90;9;69TT;44;014A289U-k64;1ZF18ZF183Ni

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-7s-3x;0NF-40B3RG-90;9;544TT;714A289U-F0U;1ZF18ZF183gJ OMG this one is 0/5/5/30/30 With Clerics, Hammer, Scepter Shield, Shouts, Sanctuary. ~ SO DIVERSE.

Lighter.5631:

but guardian definitely have one of the better diversity.

That’s why 90% of tournament Guardians run a 0/0/10/30/30 – Cleric’s Amulet, Shouts, Sanctuary, Hammer / Scepter Shield bunker spec then.

stof.9341:

Adding one second delay? Who said that?

This ability is annoying yes but I fear such delay would make using it as a thief Shadow Refuge counter too hard to time right unless you were already on the right weapon set.

Binding Blade (Pull) says Hi.

BobbyT.7192:

Zenith.7301:

stof.9341:

Pyriall.5027:

What? You don’t find it a bit absurd that the limiting factor in being able to run other GC builds are two profession’s gc builds?

Not as such. The very nature of GC builds in GW2 is something that kills very fast and dies very fast (when you don’t avoid the damage). So two glass canons that fight each other are bound to be something very brutal.

If thief and mesmer didn’t have any effective GC build, you’d get 1-2 other classes to be declared “the kings of GC” and preventing all the other GC builds to be effective.

…..No

A GC engineer, or necro, or ranger, or guardian, are all on even footing.

Thief and mesmer GC are all cannon and hardly glass because of all the teleports/offensive shutdowns they have. They can deliver their burst while invulnerable or untargetable, and they can reset a fight at will whereas the other GC’s do not get that luxury.

Sounds like a problem with those classes more than thieves and mesmers, why punish the haves instead of improving the have nots.

You think that adding targeted teleports, weapon based stun breaking teleports, weapon based evade skills and stealth to 6 professions is better than toning down the amount of evade, teleports, stealth and invulnerability that 2 professions have?

I think it would be easier to:
- Phase Retreat no longer breaks stuns
- Blurred Frenzy now applies 2s of Protection instead of 2s of Invulnerability
- Blink cool down increased to forty five seconds

- Flanking Strike no longer evades
- Larcenous Strike now costs 3 Initiative stealing 2 boons with an unblockable skill should be costly, it’s fracking awesome Players should choose when to use it, not just spam it several times to strip a player of all their boons in 3s, while evading attacks, gap-closing and doing significant damage.
- Shadowstep cool down increased to 60s
- Shadow Return no longer breaks stuns

The Risk vs Reward is currently skewed for Mesmers and Thieves allowing them either too many escapes (which massively benefits total glass cannons)
Or too much survivability
Blurred Frenzy allowing a Mesmer to jump into the middle of a fight and cleave everything while immune to damage once every 8-10s is crazy.
Choosing to do something like that should carry with it the risks the rest of us face when going into the thick of a fight, Mesmers should be susceptible to cleave / AoE damage and Retaliation when using Blurred Frenzy.

Blind will make them miss you first. Blind before Block.

However, blocks have horrible mechanics in GW2 for Guardians.

They will all fire off together and only stop one attack.

For example ~ You have Aegis up, Shield of Wrath and have activated Protectors Strike. The enemy makes one attack, that one attack will destroy Aegis, activate Protectors Strike and use one of the Shield of Wrath blocks.

The big issue this creates is with the activation on block mechanics like gain Might on block or Burn on block, in the case above you would use 3 blocks and only gain 1 stack of Might or apply just one tick of Burning…

1. More diversity in build options for all Professions (viable DPS, support and control).
2. Less high damage ranged AoE skills.
3. Blurred Frenzy now applies 2s of Protection instead of a 2s Invulnerability.
(The current Risk vs Reward for this skill is out of whack).

Pyroatheist.9031:

ronpierce.2760:

Evade destroys the point of skill shots/timing abilities, Boon hate destroys the idea of defensive(or otherwise) Boons, it’s to even the play field for the have-nots without making everything the same. I’m not saying make all of our auto attacks just go right through. Just some abilities that would be more powerful against high evade targets. If Characters and Necros can’t have high evasion/invuln, then why not at least be better at attacking those who do in little ways, not just every ability. I think you’re taking my suggestion to be too extreme.

Actually, no. Evade destroys the skill-less use of skill shots and poorly timed abilities, as well it should. If you can’t time your abilities to avoid them being evaded, then you shouldn’t be landing them, as per mechanics working as intended.

This would be true if it wasn’t for the unbalancing availability of Evade in some specs.

Ranger with a GS / Sword Dagger has 4 Evade skills. 3 on one weapon set.
A 1s Evade during each autoattack chain with the GS…
Evade Utility skill and a huge amount of Vigor + 50% increased regen rate for just 5pts meaning a lot of dodge rolls too. And the highest self heal available.

A Thief specc’d for Initiative regeneration with Sword Dagger can spam Larcenous Strike for 50% evasion uptime, gap closing, boon stealing and solid damage.
Oh and the boon stealing is Unblockable…

Guardian damage as a bunker is pathetic, half of it comes from Retaliation!

An Elementalist can still provide loads of support just by switching around attunements in a group fight and providing all those boons to allies, and they will do significantly more damage than a support Guardian.

Guardian’s if specc’d for DPS are all melee, melee is far harder in this game than ranged, ranged specs have so many conditions to keep a foe at range and abilities to extend the range with leaps and teleports.
Melee also need to be in the thick of the ridiculous amount of AoE and cleave damage this game has.
Survivability is priority 1 for melee dps.

Kiting a DPS Guardian as a ranged DPS is the easiest thing in GW2.

Oh and Guardian aren’t “tanks” get that mentality out of your head, it’s clouding your judgement on what you think each profession should and shouldn’t be able to do.

Guardian were designed with support in mind, so it’s everywhere across traits, weapons and utilities.

That’s an incredibly strange way of looking at things.

Hundred Blades still did 20k damage, you don’t subtract the possible auto attack damage from it, that’s just stupid.

You’re talking about DPS while using total damage numbers and just muddying the waters with subtraction rubbish. It makes no sense at all.

If you need instant pressure then Hundred Blades > Autoattack, it will deal more damage in a shorter amount of time and it cleaves.

If you want pure sustained damage DPS then yes, auto attack is often a superior choice, while you use other skills when suitable.

PvE is such a non-challenge anyway that I’m surprised so many people devote so much spreadsheet calculation time towards it >.<

Autobalance is a challenge.

Try and help the losing make a come back, very satisfying when you win.

No, this is the sPvP discussion forum.
We don’t need WvW mechanics clouding the issues here.

WvW is unbalanced by design.

If anything Conditions deal too much damage or are too easily accessible, especially with things like Grenades applying mass conditions to a large area.

Poison Grenades can easily stack 1 minute of Poison in 2 seconds if they land at an opponents feet.

Whenever I build anything on any Profession I think about Condition removal more than Toughness by far.

The issue is mostly how soon Conditions can be reapplied to you after using your Condition removal, and then having to wait for a long duration before you can remove conditions again.

When auto attacks can easily build long duration stacks it also becomes rather difficult to try and negate it with cool downs and dodge rolls, dodge rolling the auto-attacks to miss 1 bleed is silly, but after 10s you find yourself with 10 bleeds taking 1200 DPS and while waiting for a large stack to build up that’s worth Cleansing you took a huge amount of damage over time from 1..2..3.. ~ 10 stacks.

There’s a current popular Mesmer burst combo where several skills all happen within a split second.

With a clone and Phantasmal Warden already up then something like~
Temporal Curtain > Into the Void > Mind Wrack > Cry of Frustration > Illusionary Leap > Swap > Blurred Frenzy. Possibly Mirror Images too.

All of those skills happening together whether you are the victim or spectating, massive AoE damage that pulls in several targets and all hits together.

Either a macro or just several hotkeys together on the side of the mouse that all get squashed at the same time with a big thumb.

It does seem like far too much happens at the same time really.

Because an attack with 1.25s of evasion that makes you travel 250 range automatically in the direction of your target and apply 10s of Poison on a 10s cool down for 100% possible uptime with no traits or sigils required is good game design.

Goes well with the 0.5s evade and 450 reverse dodge roll + 600 Leap on a 6.5s cool down on Sword, spammable with no target for easy disengage and mobility, why play with risk involved?
Especially when you also have a 0.75s evade on #3 every 12s. Just in case you might actually be in danger of taking damage while fighting.
It’s not like you have the ability to spam the normal dodge roll as well with 50% endurance gain rate for just 5 trait points.

On weapon swap effects share a cool down with on crit procs.

On kill effects are seperate.

Passive effects are seperate.

If you have Fire / Force on one set and Energy / Force on the other set and you proc fire then swap to the second set, Energy would not proc. (Intended).
After Energy procs if you swapped to the first set you would need to wait 9s for Fire to be able to proc. (Intended).

This is designed for balance.

Otherwise Fire/Energy ~ Fire/Hydromancy ~ Blood/Leeching 1H set ups would be everywhere and utterly over powered.

You need to make a choice, this is not a bug.

When I read about this in the patch notes I thought it would make all the characters on the winning team do the cheering animation.

I think that would be much better, for them all to become immune to damage and do the cheering animation upon victory in a match.

Rather than the PvE quest completion shield appearing across our screens.

The game has far too much AoE, especially ground targeted persistent AoE attacks.

There’s too much cleave also, 1H weapons should not cleave and only a few skills should cleave on 2H weapons.

Ranged builds also get a disproportionate amount of escape and disengage abilities through weapon evades, leaps that can be used to run away, swiftness, cripple and teleport.

Stun breaks on weapon skills for the Mesmer and Thief are silly.

Phase Retreat and Blurred Frenzy offer far too much for their low cooldowns.

Ranger has an insane amount of weapon evades across Sword, Dagger and GS.
GS giving 50% evade time through the auto-attack chain.

Thief being able to build stuff like Sword with Larcenous Strike spam, evade attacks, get taken to the player you’re attacking, do good damage and steal boons?
All in one button you can just push push push push no user input required to move your character into melee range like a Guardian or Warrior would have to, you know like actually follow your targets movements and time your attacks.

CMF.5461:

If any of you actually take the trait you will see the 1 sec of burn to fury ratio is pretty small and gets a couple hits here and there as crits making it seemingly ineffective.

The fix they suggest is how the skill apparently worked way back when in beta, but was changed without having the tooltip updated to match how it works now.

By changing the skill to work how it used it, it would provide an on demand set of burst instead of random bouts of burst for more control of our own character and abilities. Maybe less fury overall, but more concentrated and when you want/need it.

Other classes have a cooldown or have to have a specific weapon equipped to have fury available on demand, possible have both effects active, 1s for enemy burns on yourself and 3-5 seconds on self activation with torch?

In the long run though, better use of more crit chance is found through gear and/or right hand strength. This trait mostly benefits builds with low crit chance and provides them more opportunities to trigger selfless daring, vigorous precision, and empowering might.

As far as cleansing a condition on yourself and the target, that would be extremely nice, but I guess the argument that we have a lot of condition removal already could be thrown in. I still would appreciate a change like that, even if I don’t use torch a lot.

I got 3s of Fury for each time burning was applied to me.

Fighting a Guardian I had permanent Fury and 8s left after I downed him.

Lot’s of other fights offer permanent Fury. Engineer, Ranger with traps, Longbow Warrior and very high uptime from an Elementalist.

ODB.6891:

Ezrael.6859:

6/8 Professions can actively apply burning to you in a fight.
Guardian, Ranger, Engineer, Warrior, Mesmer and Elementalist.

Necromancer’s can possibly apply it by converting boons into conditions.

Or 75% of your fights will lead to you taking burning damage, and gaining you Fury from the trait Inner Fire.

What you propose is to limit this trait to only gain Fury when someone wields a Torch and activates Zealot’s Flame but only leaves it passive.

So instead of having a trait that can be incorporated into many builds and all possible weapon combinations, you would rather it was limited to a single off-hand weapon, restricting it from the majority of builds.

So you want us to have less access to Fury. That’s your ‘improvement’?

I think you you need to scroll up and re-read what I and others have posted. Take a sedative and chill out. I’m pretty sure no one specifically mentioned pvp…as this game is not entirely about pvp or pve. Your focus on what other players can apply to the guardian, in terms of the burning condition, is not the sum total of the discussion. There is also no mention of limiting the effects of this trait to only triggering when zealot’s flame is active (meaning that just like it currently functions…the actual burning condition from outside sources would still activate fury). Read for comprehension ftw!

I started the discussion and I’m only thinking about PvP.

If you want to talk about PvEasy then make your own discussion on the Torch.

6/8 Professions can actively apply burning to you in a fight.
Guardian, Ranger, Engineer, Warrior, Mesmer and Elementalist.

Necromancer’s can possibly apply it by converting boons into conditions.

Or 75% of your fights will lead to you taking burning damage, and gaining you Fury from the trait Inner Fire.

What you propose is to limit this trait to only gain Fury when someone wields a Torch and activates Zealot’s Flame but only leaves it passive.

So instead of having a trait that can be incorporated into many builds and all possible weapon combinations, you would rather it was limited to a single off-hand weapon, restricting it from the majority of builds.

So you want us to have less access to Fury. That’s your ‘improvement’?

Archmortal.1027:

Ezrael.6859:

There’s no need for Inner Fire to be affected by Torch #4.

There are plenty of sources of burning you will encounter when fighting players.

Another Guardian, Elementalist, Engineer, a Ranger with Traps or Torch and the Longbow Warrior.
In team fights you can have permanent Fury from all the burning damage that gets thrown around.

In PvE you have access to gear with many more stats and food that all but removes the need for Fury as you can achieve a high crit build with good defenses.
Or gain Fury from the constant buffs your party is putting out.

PvP is more limited.

This does just as good a job spelling out why it doesn’t need to work that way as it does emphasize the lack of reason not to have it work that way. So you know. If nothing else it would be more thematically appropriate for the skill to trigger Inner Fire even if the skill actually put the burning condition on you.

Saying that something is does not make it so. You did nothing to justify your point of view.

Activating Zealot’s Flame and having it apply the burning condition to yourself to therefore trigger the Inner Fire trait would be stupid.

It’s a poorly worded trait that could be solved by writing
“When you suffer from burning, you gain fury.”

If you want Fury from the trait, go and get burned.