Guild Wars 2

Azukas.1426:

Ross Biddle.2367:

brannigan.9831:

So you don’t think any nerfs are coming for Mesmers Ross? I think past history would tell you there are at least minor nerfs coming for every class that is currently meta including Mesmers.

We’re in hindsight now but… Past history has only told me I’ve barely any idea what Anet is going to do. Though with the quarterly updates I can now see a pattern between the time that class issues rise (as seen on the forums), the reworking and implementation of the changes, and the dropping of the quarterly patch. So everyone’s surprised at what changes we got this time around (though I still stand by the fact I don’t see the one meta chrono build as OP. It’s undeniably viable for sure). But if you want to see changes to CS, Moa, or CS’s play with elites etc, you’re going to have to wait for the next quarterly update, if at all.

Anyway, it was a real hoot seeing Azukas go down in flames XD

Who’s going down in flames lol

Mesmer is still meta and I was wrong about mesmer not having 2x moa nerfed.

We got buffed in the end of the patch but we need to keep an eye on thieves/warriors in the coming weeks. We haven’t seen the full effects of the changes yet and a hard counter might be out there which could remove us.

We’ll see

Literally your entire argument was ‘Mesmer is op and I’m right because Anet is going to nerf Mesmer which proved me right.’

Mesmer got no nerfs. By your own “logic” your entire basis for argument has fallen to pieces with absolutely no hope for recourse. Honestly you should be trying to save face at this point instead of digging deeper.

Hlord.5940:

How about no until anet do something about mesmer abysmal DPS?
Right now I’ve seen that mesmer are compensated by their lag of DPS by their utilities and why would you want to nerf mesmer utilities too? Peer preasure?

link to DPS that mesmer trying to testing out
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/So-what-s-your-DPS-on-the-new-golems
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4fnnfo/dps_comparison/

BTW how does the staff score so high?

edit;spelling

Staff scores so high because it’s cute to put all conditions on the golem and watch the warlocks pump out 23k crits since they scale per condition.

@Xyonon: No need for concentration, I keep a couple of pet revenants with me for that instead. In any case, even with perfectly optimal use of CI, you’re not going to be cracking 500-800 dps boost tops, which is ultimately pretty insignificant. Unless I’m losing dps due to range issues, staying with sword will be more reliable while providing better defense and making your rotation more flexible.

SteepledHat.1345:

Fay.2357:

So in mostly zerker gear with a full set of normal raid buffs (25 might, fury, quickness, alacrity, EA, spotter, disc, strength, assassin’s presence, frost spirit, grace of the land), with domination, dueling, and illusions, I’m clocking about 13.7k dps autoattacking in sword with 3 sword phantasms up. I also used 25 vuln on the golem.

I think this 13.7k dps is close to the highest realistic power dps mesmer could do when fully specced into it. You’re providing zero utility to the team, nothing but dps. I believe that condie could go substantially higher, but I unfortunately lack sinister/viper gear to test this out.

Yes, I repeated your process with Exo weapons, full berserker ascended armor and trinkets. Gave myself the profession specific boons (I didn’t the first time.) and ended up with ~14K dps. So shatters and wells are a dps loss? If that’s not the case it must be a rotational issue on my part.

Edit: Repeat with the profession mechanics, same weapons, exo sword and shield off hand. Took chronophantasma and gravity well. Got up to 15k as a PvE nub. Those profession specific boons are nuts.

Yes, shatters and wells are a dps loss. All of these ‘maximum damage setups’ that we’ve been posting would never actually be wanted on a team because they don’t bring the actually important stuff i.e. Alacrity and quickness. Chrono takes a substantial personal dps loss to provide heavy dps support to everyone else.

It’s worth noting that the sword is massively better defensively than scepter, particularly in fractals. There’s a ton of absurd and infuriating unblockable attacks in fractals. There are also some equally absurd undodgeable attacks, but those are far more rare.

I also have no idea how you figure that you have time to use CI during a buffing combo. With a 3 clone CS, there’s very little time left over after time warp, shield 5, 3 wells, and SoI. You could certainly use it afterwards, but you’re not going to get 3 casts of it.

As I mentioned before, I definitely don’t see the tiny dps boost as a compelling reason to add even more complexity to the rotation while losing access to a more potent defensive ability.

All that being said, this is the wrong thread for this discussion, as the op was asking about condie builds, not power builds using scepter. As I mentioned in the first reply, the scepter changes haven’t changed anything about how Mesmer condie builds function. All of the previous reasons that nobody uses them still exist without change, and I don’t really see those reasons changing at any point in the future unfortunately.

Adrenalin.5719:

Nope, this class must end just as thief. This class is even more cancerous than thief ever was.

Have you tried dodging? I’ve heard that’s a pretty good way to counter moa.

Soothsayer.9206:

You forgot the most common one: “Mesmers got buffed.” Its followed by, and forgive the paraphrase: “The sky is falling, Mesmers are so OP, Anet, please kill all Mesmers.”

The one thing to note is that instead of starting with “mesmers got buffed,” this can alternatively start with “mesmers didn’t get nerfed hard enough,” or “I saw a Mesmer today and they weren’t dead already.”

Ah yes, the classic “Lets bend PvE builds over a log and give them a good reaming for the purposes of PvP balance” suggestion.

Edit: With a side dish of making moa closer to rampage than moa? Yeah, no thanks.

Honestly, I can’t see that 100 dps boost as a reason to introduce the complication of swapping back and forth with scepter and sword just because you go out of range for half a second to chuck a bomb at a boost pad or something.

ianervan.7915:

That’s exactly it.

What I want is a PvE GW1 Prophecies Mesmer. You know, that style you choose because it’s cool and you love it, even though it’s more optimal to be a nuking Elementalist or just about anything else. GW2 Mesmer is nowhere near as fun as GW1 but gotta work with what we got.

So, what I need is a build for sword + pistol/torch, and scepter/sword.. something like that. The most optimal one, the most fun one.. I’m aware of the benefits of GS, been using it for a long time but I don’t want to anymore.

My point isn’t that it’s not going to be optimal, my point was more that it’s going to be miserable trying to do things that require aoe without any aoe. I suppose if you get raw enjoyment purely from playing the build without that build actually succeeding at anything then that’s ok, but I haven’t met someone yet that enjoyed doing open world events without good access to aoe.

So in mostly zerker gear with a full set of normal raid buffs (25 might, fury, quickness, alacrity, EA, spotter, disc, strength, assassin’s presence, frost spirit, grace of the land), with domination, dueling, and illusions, I’m clocking about 13.7k dps autoattacking in sword with 3 sword phantasms up. I also used 25 vuln on the golem.

I think this 13.7k dps is close to the highest realistic power dps mesmer could do when fully specced into it. You’re providing zero utility to the team, nothing but dps. I believe that condie could go substantially higher, but I unfortunately lack sinister/viper gear to test this out.

So I’m not sure you realize what you just asked, so let me clarify it.

You want a fun PvE build. You want to use it for open world events where substantial amounts of aoe power on rapidly dying mobs is necessary to even start actually making a contribution to events. Lastly, you don’t want to use any weapons that have aoe.

Just…wanted to clarify that.

Zenith.7301:

Meta mesmer before chrono did more than just portal, and the discovery and smart usage of portals on top of reflects, iWarden chaining, mob pulling and blink tricks makes far more mechanical creativity than just spamming alacrity generation skills.

It’s been a very long time since most of those were wanted from mesmers. Guardians did reflects and mob pulling far better than us while also providing far higher dps. Realistically the only thing that made us objectively useful was portal; as exhibited by speedrun mesmers literally just holding an fgs by the door ready to run for a portal while everyone else did the dpsing.

Zenith.7301:

We went from smart use of Power Block on bosses to it being useless garbage, reflects were marginalized, pulls were marginalized.

You mean the all of 8 hours that power block worked through defiance? Past that it wasn’t really ever used, since trying to block some skills for 15 seconds was a waste of time and effort. Reflects and pulls were certainly nerfed, but guardians did both of those better anyway…

Zenith.7301:

You use shatters that you wouldn’t use otherwise and at significant DPS cost just to keep that stupid boon running so everybody else can actually do something.

I don’t think you know how to play PvE chrono very well if you think this is true.

Zenith.7301:

You can spin the whole vanilla WoW totem bot however you want, but the chrono is there for one thing and that’s alacrity generation.

Not to pick at nits here, but you seem to be forgetting that at least half of our purpose is quickness generation.

Zenith.7301:

And let’s not sit here and pretend like ele and revenant aren’t providing utility while still being top tier DPS.

The role of an ele in a raid is to press 1, 2, and 5 repeatedly. If they need to switch to water or something else for utility, somebody else in the raid has screwed up. Same for a revenant outside of being a boon duration totem for the chrono. On top of that, revenant hasn’t been top-tier dps for months now, not sure what you’re talking about.

Zenith.7301:

Mesmer and ranger players who bought into the vanilla game under the premise of being a DPS class as they advertised got screwed with this bait and switch of elite professions.

Wait what? Since when did Anet ever advertise specific classes as dps classes? You’re just expecting things that were never promised.

Yes, I understand that it’s reasonable to feel disappointed that Mesmer isn’t able to be the top dps class if that’s what you want to do, but it’s unreasonable to expect that Anet has an obligation to make every class able to do everything. The balance team’s first and only priority is to make every class viable in every mode of play. Nothing more, nothing less.

Xaylin.1860:

While I think Fay is right – we didn’t get any nerfs – I find myself bored. The class changes didn’t bring anything interesting or exciting which wants me want to try new things. And that is especially true for Mesmers.

Balance changes aren’t supposed to bring new and exciting mechanics to skills in the game. They’re supposed to balance the ones that exist. Feature packs like expansions or releases focused on skill reworks are expected to bring new and exciting things to skills. This was a content update with a balance pass, not a skills feature release. The new and exciting stuff is found elsewhere in the patch notes.

Nothing fundamental has been changed about PvE condie performance. It’s still the highest single target dps build for Mesmer, and it’s still mechanically limited to the extent of not being reasonably usable for most encounters.

Zenith.7301:

Fay.2357:

Zenith.7301:

So are druids, but that doesn’t make the playstyle any less kitten for those uninterested in the buffbot/healbot role. I wasn’t a support class in GW1, I don’t want to be one in GW2.

Especially creating a role that revolves purely around alacrity when the PvP mobs are out to nerf it to the ground. Pretty terrible to have the class underpinned around one effect.

I want my old Well of Precognition back. If they’re gonna leave in this crap one, the least they could do is add some protection ticks to it and the end explosion could blind foes.

Druids are replaceable. Tempests can heal enough, mesmers can heal enough, guardians and engineers can even heal enough. Chrono is completely irreplaceable. No other class can do anything remotely similar.

Ultimately, you’re just complaining for the sake of complaining. “Oh woe is me, my class is only the best in the game at doing a particular role, I want it to be best in the game at doing the particular role that I like better”.

This patch literally had nothing but buffs for Mesmer, and you’re sitting here complaining that they didn’t buff it enough. Do you understand how absurd that is?

Druid’s 15% damage increase via grace of the land and spotter+frost spirit is about as replaceable as alacrity chrono is.

Which is to say, not in any remotely optimized group.

Sorry you can’t empathize with anything that doesn’t bother you personally.

Before chrono mesmer was meta anyways in group content, be it as portal bot or quickness/reflect bot for speed records, yet that didn’t stop you from complaining yourself about it until chrono arrived. I’m not sure why you feel entitled to be the determining voice for what should and should not matter to people.

Your trivialization of the role that chrono plays is absurd. “Oh it’s just an alacrity bot, it’s meaningless.” If you want to make that argument, you must be willing to apply it to every single class. “Oh ele is just a dps bot”. “Oh revenant is just a boon bot.” “Oh Druid is just a heal bot.” In fact, one can easily make the argument that ele is playing a far less interesting role in PvE because 99% of their play is pressing 1, 2, and 5.

As I said before, you’re just complaining because chrono doesn’t fit the exact definition of what you want it to do. It had a powerful, necessary, and thoroughly engaging role that it plays in PvE right now, one that requires you to pay attention and use your entire build for a purpose.

The difference between current PvE builds and portal bot is massive. Back then we were taken for a single utility, with time warp as a bit of an extra. The current situation requires your entire build, all of your utilities, multiple weapon skills, traits, and gear all focused on performing precise rotations to maximize your support to a group.

Ultimately, in a perfect world every class could be useful in every role. But guess what, this world isn’t perfect and neither is the balance team. If every class in the game is a viable pick in a PvE party, they’ll count the balance situation as a success, and so that needs to be the benchmark that we use as well.

Zenith.7301:

So are druids, but that doesn’t make the playstyle any less kitten for those uninterested in the buffbot/healbot role. I wasn’t a support class in GW1, I don’t want to be one in GW2.

Especially creating a role that revolves purely around alacrity when the PvP mobs are out to nerf it to the ground. Pretty terrible to have the class underpinned around one effect.

I want my old Well of Precognition back. If they’re gonna leave in this crap one, the least they could do is add some protection ticks to it and the end explosion could blind foes.

Druids are replaceable. Tempests can heal enough, mesmers can heal enough, guardians and engineers can even heal enough. Chrono is completely irreplaceable. No other class can do anything remotely similar.

Ultimately, you’re just complaining for the sake of complaining. “Oh woe is me, my class is only the best in the game at doing a particular role, I want it to be best in the game at doing the particular role that I like better”.

This patch literally had nothing but buffs for Mesmer, and you’re sitting here complaining that they didn’t buff it enough. Do you understand how absurd that is?

cough

So…

How bout them nerfs Azukas?

Zenith.7301:

PvP balance as usual.

Mesmer damage is still garbage, so we’ll still be alacrity bots in PvE.

Condi specs will still suck at cleave, so condi mesmer is significantly inferior to other condi specs.

One day, maybe they’ll actually get around to balancing autoattack damage across classes.

Chill, we’re still best in slot for literally any possible PvE group for any possible PvE content. These changes only made us stronger in that role. Yeah, you can’t dps like an ele, but don’t act like the sky is falling when we are literally the single most irreplaceable class in the game for PvE.

Well changes are good, though precog still needs some work. The changes to illusionary riposte sound like they’ll make the dazing portion of that skill very snappy and actually usable as an interrupt. I’m also interested in seeing how much the aftercast changes affect the autoattack.

It’s worth mentioning that I’m pretty sure sword autoattack will still beat out scepter for raw dps even under permanent alacrity and the trait. While a 20% buff to confusing images is significant, when I did my calculations, the scepter was still behind in dps by a significant amount back when alacrity was full strength. That being said, that’s just a gut feeling. I’ll have to do testing before I can affirm that assumption.

Azukas.1426:

LOL what’s funny is in that show where the pro players even stated that mesmer is the best 1v1 class in the game y’all ignore that. LOL

The pro players also stated such accurate things as mesmer scepter getting torment as being basically the end of PvP as we know it.

Face it, the pros are good at playing, not good at thinking. They’re better off leaving the theorycrafting to people that know what they’re talking about.

Azukas.1426:

Fay.2357:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Hlord.5940:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Curunen.8729:

I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.

What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.

This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.

“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "

You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.

Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.

If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”

Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.

Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.

Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.

Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?

Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another

The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.

So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.

Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.

So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?

Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.

I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.

Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.

I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.

Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.

Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.

I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.

Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.

1 team in final is a bad sample size, agree on that, any good experiment require an ample sample but you just skip the whole why no one pick mesmer

People picking up portal and moa because they are the last thing we have not because they are other option

PS
>not here championing nerf
>expect nerfs tomorrow

wut?

I’m not asking for nerfs here like I did to chrono bunker, but I do expect nerfs because condi shatter is so strong. It’s the best 1v1 class and decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.

You wanted facts. Saying a class is better 1v1 again has a lot to do with the person sitting behind the desk. Again imo and hate to say this its a l2p. The facts echoed in your material mostly had the “pros” hating cs on elite use.

What class in this meta has the advantage vs condi shatter? Please enlighten me….

Necromancer.

Double Moa says no.

Doing your best to not doze off at the keyboard and remember that dodging exists in this game says yes. If you get hit by moa, you’re a bad player.

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Hlord.5940:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

denis.9487:

Azukas.1426:

Obtena.7952:

Curunen.8729:

I can see you get a kick out of being a martyr, but this is getting long in the tooth now.

What’s the point in making a thread if you’re not open for discussion? I think it’s best to leave it be and accept you won’t convince the other 99% of the population that are not at the top of pro league, and neither will they convince you. Just agree to disagree and leave it be.

This thread is no different than the one the OP made in the Rev forum.

“What I think is truth, no reason to discuss. Let’s talk about how to nerf Rev’s now. "

You can imagine the result … actually you’re seeing it here. There is no open discussion. The second anyone attempts to discuss, they are simply wrong and ignored. A very disingenuous approach to having a discussion with people.

Here’s the issue. No one counter argues with facts or examples but just wants people to take thier emotional opinions as facts. Sorry it doesn’t work that way when I’m using examples, facts, and pro league players input.

If you want to discuss things please come at me with something other than “I feel”

Fact. Mesmer was never really taken pre stacking. Sure some pros made it work but what about the rest of us?? Also if you look back these pros often said other classes could do it better. Post stacking. You cant have more than 1 of any class. By default the 5th is Mesmer because of 2 skills. Condition output insane?? Does it beat condition rev or necro? So yes pros use the Mesmer. Pre hot had small niche and again pros basically handicapped themselves because they loved the class. Post hot. Give Moa/portal to the warrior since according to the pros are out of the meta and guess what. Warrior would be the 5th.
We are poorly balanced. Removing those skills might even the playing field and show how far apart it really is. As it is people still complain about pu/clones/signet of illusions. It’s easy to hate something you don’t understand.

Fact mesmer was stacked in Season 1.

Since June 23rd 2015 Mesmer has been in a REALLY REALLY good place. 10 months of having the good life.

Now let’s see if you can answer me one question. If Mesmer is ONLY meta b/c of portal and moa how come, according to you all, mesmer wasn’t meta before when they had Moa and Portal? That’s all they needed according to everyone here so why weren’t they meta then?

Thanks for your reply and I look forward to another

The one answer is cs. Allowing 2 casts of the elite. That is an entire different post though. You also failed to acknowledge any of my points. Helseth himself the king has gone on record saying thief was better pre hot.

So thief was better pre June 23rd. We’re dealing with right now not the past.

Get out of the past because for like the past year we’ve been top dog.

So yes I’ve acknowledged all of your points and what besides dble moa stands out?

Ok by logic. Our condition build was nerfed not buffed after hot. It is only taken because of the stacking rule and the double down of our 2 key skills. We are not op by any means. We are just taken like the side of salad that comes with the steak.

I already stated I’m not so sure about mesmer only being meta because of no stacking. We saw a team run it in pros but the team was no where near as good as rank 55. Could of a better team played with a mesmer? I personally believe so and others agreed with me. Then you look at what pros are saying now and you get the idea more were going to run it.

Now don’t get me wrong because I truly believe revs have too much. That’s another class that needs to get beat with the hammer BUT they can’t touch mesmer 1v1 or 1vX.

I can work with that. 1 team used a Mesmer. Most were using double rev. 1 game is such a small sample size to make any assumptions. What I gathered is the hate being generated by cs and using it to double elites. The stacking rule surely cast light on other classes. Hence the Mesmer stepping in. We are meta currently because we have had the same 5v5 pvp stand in a circle to win since launch. Again another topic but by no means an indication Mesmer is op.

Mesmer condi specs have always been OP and now they’ve gone and made one tournament viable.

Yes the 1 team in the finals is a bad sample size but seeing what we see now I believe condi shatter beats out 2nd rev.

I’m not here championing nerfs either. I’m just here saying I told you so and let’s rejoice in the greatness of mesmer.

Now I do expect nerfs tomorrow and I just pray the rest of the OP classes get it too.

1 team in final is a bad sample size, agree on that, any good experiment require an ample sample but you just skip the whole why no one pick mesmer

People picking up portal and moa because they are the last thing we have not because they are other option

PS
>not here championing nerf
>expect nerfs tomorrow

wut?

I’m not asking for nerfs here like I did to chrono bunker, but I do expect nerfs because condi shatter is so strong. It’s the best 1v1 class and decides team fight all the while keeping home safe or 1 enemy player honest at far.

You wanted facts. Saying a class is better 1v1 again has a lot to do with the person sitting behind the desk. Again imo and hate to say this its a l2p. The facts echoed in your material mostly had the “pros” hating cs on elite use.

What class in this meta has the advantage vs condi shatter? Please enlighten me….

Necromancer.

Hlord.5940:

Fay.2357:

Ananeos.4587:

Fay.2357:

IDK why ya’ll continue to post here. It’s obvious that there’s no point to it. Just let the thread die and report OP for bumping if he keeps at it.

Yeah… I’ll take you up on that one. Everyone please report the thread.

Er, just to be clear, I didn’t mean report it now. Just stop posting and let the thread die. If op tries to keep it alive by bumping then report.

I see what you mean but this kind of thread create a big delusion about mesmer and then we have guys like lexander who only play thief, had a vendeta against mesmer, act like an expert on mesmer, a guy like lionchan with his nerf signet of inspiration TM, and a guy like ryo who said that Mesmer was always good at pve, back in the day mesmer were brough in for time warp and portal only

And that’s why the best thing to do is to let this thread die and let OP enjoy their delusions in private.

Ananeos.4587:

Fay.2357:

Ananeos.4587:

Fay.2357:

IDK why ya’ll continue to post here. It’s obvious that there’s no point to it. Just let the thread die and report OP for bumping if he keeps at it.

Yeah… I’ll take you up on that one. Everyone please report the thread.

Er, just to be clear, I didn’t mean report it now. Just stop posting and let the thread die. If op tries to keep it alive by bumping then report.

4 pages of denial is enough, don’t you agree?

The forum has no rules against being a blockhead, annoying as that may be. While the op is extremely aggravating, they haven’t actually done anything reportable.

Ananeos.4587:

Fay.2357:

IDK why ya’ll continue to post here. It’s obvious that there’s no point to it. Just let the thread die and report OP for bumping if he keeps at it.

Yeah… I’ll take you up on that one. Everyone please report the thread.

Er, just to be clear, I didn’t mean report it now. Just stop posting and let the thread die. If op tries to keep it alive by bumping then report.

IDK why ya’ll continue to post here. It’s obvious that there’s no point to it. Just let the thread die and report OP for bumping if he keeps at it.

Yeah, works fine for the engie in our group.

Ryou.2398:

You guys need to chill obviously I read the criticisms and replied with more I didnt say anyone was wrong, your getting way to defensive.

Oh?

Ryou.2398:

Well see, im sure someone has unbiased objective points of views they can give.

Call me touchy, but it sure seems like you were saying I was wrong. Not to mention your other posts all telling me that clearly everything I was saying was wrong.

There’s nothing wrong with disagreeing, but I’m not a fan of revisionist history.

Ryou.2398:

NICENIKESHOE.7128:

Sorry I may have misinterpret this, but if you’re saying that multiclass mmorpg isn’t meant to have individual classes that are sufficient by itself, then GW2 is a very bad game

Unfortunately current PvP meta is full of bruiser builds that one build can filled most vitals roles in a battle, they can sustain and deal sufficient sustain damage that most glass specs are being pushed out. The main reason you see 5 different classes in Pro League is because of the no stacking rule.

Back to core mesmer, know that in PvP it is inevitable that you’ll face elite specs. And currently all elite specs ARE better than their core counterparts, even warrior though not by a mile like others. I’m not sure why you find that enjoyable but I can suggest some builds that allow you to survive.
Staff/Scepter+torch with Dueling/Chaos/Illusion is the standard old PU condi. You can survive quite well but don’t expect to do much in team fight.
GS/Sword+torch with Domination/Dueling/Chaos for power variant or Dueling/Chaos/Inspiration if you find condi is chewing you up.

If you’re confident about your skill, try
GS/Sword+torch or GS/Staff with Domination/Dueling/Illusion for full power shatter.
Staff/Sword+focus or Staff/Sword+pistol with Domination/Dueling/Chaos for full interrupt build.

Note all the builds listed above are rather outdated, despite they shine in the past. You should probably expect people to do better with elite spec while spending significantly less effort than you.

If all elite specs are better then any regular specs then whats the point? That is zero build diversity, im iffy about people saying this people will get bored being shohorned into one spec for every class.

No kidding. That’s sorta the point.

Azukas.1426:

apharma.3741:

Azukas.1426:

apharma.3741:

To add to what Curunen has said, mesmer while “meta” for raids it is only for the alacrity and quickness of chrono.

Take a moment to think about that Azukas, in particular the embolden part.

Mesmer/chrono don’t have DPS builds that are competitive with other classes. Relegated to a support role isn’t fun for all and certainly isn’t healthy for any class including ranger/druid. Just as thief essentially being in the state it is in (as in little to no role diversity in any game mode really) isn’t good either.

Really you are complaining about having to use the HoT elite? Let’s look at the rest of the classes in the game…..Oh yeah its the same for EVERY class in the game.

So we don’t have a DPS build….oh well our class is meta for EVERYTHING. Literally no one is going to say NO to a mesmer. Imagine if we were Warriors, Thieves, Guardians? They aren’t meta.

Congrats, you missed the point.

Warrior: Base and elite PS build, both effective as well as base and elite DPS builds which are better than mesmer as well as elite burn damage build.

Guardian: Generally has base and elite spec builds though most traits are similar however brings group condi cleanses, stab, projectile block and generally anything else you might ever need for PvE.

Rev: Yeah generally 1 or 2 DPS build but brings easy fury access (much better than any other class) as well as having options for condi clear in mallyx and projectile destruction with high uptime from ventari without sacrificing too much + amazing breakbar destruction.

Ele: Really if I have to spell out how much this is better than mesmer in PvE you need your head looking at. Multiple builds, multiple roles.

Necro: Godly condition damage in pairs or greater, brings options for might, high projectile destruction, cleansing and boon control in fractals.

Thief: 2nd highest DPS with daredevil but as mentioned, no build diversity and 1 trait more or less is the difference between DPS build and tank build.

Ranger: Kinda reduced to buff bot as well but has a decent condition build, kinda same spot as mesmer tbh, niche and only for the unique buffs.

Engineer: Godly condi DPS, can pretty much do most things that you could ever require with very little drawback to DPS outside of breaking rotation.

Mesmer: Alacrity and quickness bot. Can provide some good cleanses, can provide projectile block but comes at cost to alacrity/quickness and generally not worth it vs other options.

This is about diversity and how mesmer, ranger and thief have very little diversity either in role or in builds.

Azukas.1426:

Ungrateful is what your post is.

This is why other people have called you ignorant and why you have no respect.

WTF are you talking about PvE? This thread is about PvP.

Please stay on TOPIC of the thread if you wish to continue to post, and if you would like to discuss META PvE please make a new thread.

Thank You

If you wanted this thread to stay on topic, you might have wanted to think of that 3 pages ago.

Ryou.2398:

Isnt the point of pvp working with your groups anyways? No class is meant to be be viable with multiple classes in an mmorpg ever.

Of course the point is working with a group, but if one member of the group is performing horribly (that would be the mesmer), then the entire group will suffer as a result.

Let me be blunt: you’re completely wrong in every way.

Ryou.2398:

Except im not wearing any rose tinted glasses here, the forums have been complaining about mesmers for a very long time

Have the forums been complaining about mesmers since the start of the game? Yes. Have the forums been right about this? Rarely.

Ryou.2398:

and I know they where op before and needed some nerfs,

There was a period shortly after HoT was released where chronomancer was exceedingly strong in PvP, far too strong. It was nerfed (overnerfed), and that’s been resolved. Prior to that point, mesmers were literally never op in PvP since the very launch of the game.

Ryou.2398:

I just checked back some pages and I can bump it back up I suppose but there are allot of good points why the changes where needed, I think people just want the op ness back.

The posts you’ve been seeing are almost definitely from when chronobunker was overpowered in PvP. This, as I mentioned, has since been nerfed and is no longer an issue.

Ryou.2398:

Mesmers where farily easy to play in an op way when I played before.

Yeah…there’s not really much I can say to this except you’re wrong. That statement has literaly never been true except for 3ish months after the release of HoT.

apharma.3741:

Fay.2357:

apharma.3741:

Pretty much what others have said however I’ll also add that generally speaking having 2 of any other class except maybe druid isn’t such a terrible thing in most cases. Sure it’s not optimal but it’s not like you will notice a significant lack of DPS…unless you had mesmers.

I’ve been in parties with 3 mesmers (fractals pre HoT) and the complete lack of DPS at times was horrible. You take those 3 mesmers and had replaced them with 3 of any other class and it would have taken a lot less time to complete.

I think it’s high past time ANet sorted this out tbh and I also wouldn’t say being a buff bot where you want 1 and only 1 is that great. If I want to play ele, war, guard, necro, rev, thief or engy and we already have 1 I’m not going to be told to gtfo or reroll whether it be fractals, dungeons or raids.

Double chrono is a pretty solid choice in gorse and sabetha for sure, and may be solid in the 2nd wing as well. It’s not a totally horrible thing to do.

Perhaps not entirely but I certainly would start having kittens if I saw 3 mesmers turn up and they all said they can’t play anything but chrono.

Well yes, 3 is too many. 1 per 5 people is the cap.

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

So mesmer is really bad right now. Mesmer is awful in PvP, PvE, and WvW.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is pretty solid on all 3 of those. Quite honestly, if you don’t have the expansion with chronomancer, I wouldn’t even bother playing mesmer. You’ll have a really really hard time in PvP, you’ll get kicked from most PvE groups (and rightfully so), and WvW will be as miserable as it ever has been on mesmer.

Are you trolling me?

No, I’m dead serious. The amount of power creep introduced with HoT is massive.

In PvP you’ll get ripped a new one by pretty much every one of the meta classes. You’ll lack defense in pretty much any build you try to make, and you’ll really lack defense if you try and have enough offense.

In PvE, mesmer is as awful as it always has been because other classes can do anything we can but more. If I were trying to do a reasonably efficient run of any PvE content (fractals/raids…nobody runs dungeons), I would kick a mesmer from the group, they’re that bad. Chronomancer, however, is a powerful specialization that is best in slot for any PvE group. We’re able to share enormous amounts of quickness and alacrity to boost the capabilities of our teammates incredibly high.

In WvW, chrono gets a ton of aoe utility, cc, and damage that mesmer lacks. It’s still nowhere near as good at dealing aoe damage as an ele is, but it’s a lot better than mesmer is. You’ll still mainly be wanted for veil/portal, but you’ll at least be capable of some other stuff.

Mesmer was always good at pve, and im pretty sure mesmers have more cc then other classes and stealth better then thief, I dont know I dont see any posts saying this here and in fact people complain how they are op all the time atleast when I played before.

You’ve got some heavily rose-tinted glasses there regarding mesmer in the past. Mesmer has always been a pure utility pick in PvE for some niche things it could do, outclassed heavily in dps by everyone else. With HoT, those niche things can be done by half of the other classes in the game, and mesmer is simply not needed. Chrono now brings the heavy utility that everyone wants.

Mesmer has decent cc. Other classes have just as much, and often in more usable forms.

The idea that mesmer stealths better than a thief is both absurd and mostly beside the point, I’m not sure how that single fact would make the class worth playing.

Yeah, people complained about mesmer being op all the time, but that doesn’t mean it actually ever was op. Mesmer has always been a class that is very difficult for bad/stupid players to fight, so you see those players complaining about mesmers constantly.

apharma.3741:

Pretty much what others have said however I’ll also add that generally speaking having 2 of any other class except maybe druid isn’t such a terrible thing in most cases. Sure it’s not optimal but it’s not like you will notice a significant lack of DPS…unless you had mesmers.

I’ve been in parties with 3 mesmers (fractals pre HoT) and the complete lack of DPS at times was horrible. You take those 3 mesmers and had replaced them with 3 of any other class and it would have taken a lot less time to complete.

I think it’s high past time ANet sorted this out tbh and I also wouldn’t say being a buff bot where you want 1 and only 1 is that great. If I want to play ele, war, guard, necro, rev, thief or engy and we already have 1 I’m not going to be told to gtfo or reroll whether it be fractals, dungeons or raids.

Double chrono is a pretty solid choice in gorse and sabetha for sure, and may be solid in the 2nd wing as well. It’s not a totally horrible thing to do.

Ryou.2398:

Fay.2357:

So mesmer is really bad right now. Mesmer is awful in PvP, PvE, and WvW.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is pretty solid on all 3 of those. Quite honestly, if you don’t have the expansion with chronomancer, I wouldn’t even bother playing mesmer. You’ll have a really really hard time in PvP, you’ll get kicked from most PvE groups (and rightfully so), and WvW will be as miserable as it ever has been on mesmer.

Are you trolling me?

No, I’m dead serious. The amount of power creep introduced with HoT is massive.

In PvP you’ll get ripped a new one by pretty much every one of the meta classes. You’ll lack defense in pretty much any build you try to make, and you’ll really lack defense if you try and have enough offense.

In PvE, mesmer is as awful as it always has been because other classes can do anything we can but more. If I were trying to do a reasonably efficient run of any PvE content (fractals/raids…nobody runs dungeons), I would kick a mesmer from the group, they’re that bad. Chronomancer, however, is a powerful specialization that is best in slot for any PvE group. We’re able to share enormous amounts of quickness and alacrity to boost the capabilities of our teammates incredibly high.

In WvW, chrono gets a ton of aoe utility, cc, and damage that mesmer lacks. It’s still nowhere near as good at dealing aoe damage as an ele is, but it’s a lot better than mesmer is. You’ll still mainly be wanted for veil/portal, but you’ll at least be capable of some other stuff.

So mesmer is really bad right now. Mesmer is awful in PvP, PvE, and WvW.

Chronomancer, on the other hand, is pretty solid on all 3 of those. Quite honestly, if you don’t have the expansion with chronomancer, I wouldn’t even bother playing mesmer. You’ll have a really really hard time in PvP, you’ll get kicked from most PvE groups (and rightfully so), and WvW will be as miserable as it ever has been on mesmer.

Rap Tiger.1257:

Because it is simply the most op class in the game, press 4 or 5 buttons and wins, has a 50k hp bar lasting about 20 seconds, you can play 10 conditions a couple of times, you can take enough damage and endure beating the reaper mode, you stability, chill and still turn boon in condition

Basically it’s because of people like this. When someone doesn’t understand something, the easiest reaction is to hate it and fear it.

Learning new things and improving yourself is hard. Throwing insults to mask your own failings is far easier, so you’ll see many people taking this route instead of the more challenging but ultimately more rewarding one.

Shinja.5642:

A lot of good points made by the three of you.
I see where you are coming and special thanks to step. almost forgot how it felt when the whole party screams and cries because the chrono who is playing is not as good as you.

IMO is just has this different feeling of rewards. Most of the time you as Chrono are just as good as the other players you play with. You can carry the dps somewhat but if ppl are bad and dont know how to use their cooldowns you feel more lost than any other class.

For example: Your team is doing bad in gorseval split phase and you manage to pull the small trashmobs together and cleave them down. if you are alone you get reminded of why plaing mesmer in open world is just a pain.

That the Core Mesmer is underperforming atm is not even up for debate imo. if you have the power to cast everything twice in a row things have to be tweakd for it not to be straight out broken.

People kill the adds in split phase O.o. We just ignore them and they die on the next burn.

Anyway, it’s definitely a new style of play. Prior to chrono there wasn’t really any such thing as a dedicated support whose effectiveness is directly linked to the performance of other party members. Now there is. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing, just a different thing.

Personally, I think it feels plenty rewarding to play this way, so the whole thing about rewards is purely a personal opinion. Low/limited dps isn’t an issue as it is in WvW where your physical reward is directly linked to how many people you tag, so that’s not an issue either.

The issue with losing divisions is that there (currently) isn’t any real prestige associated with high division rank. The top players in legendary mostly just want to stomp people and would rather have unbalanced fights than long queue times.

As a result, you’ll end up seeing people do losing streaks to drop into lower divisions to get more games. You’ll probably be seeing the premades do this too. You’ll randomly be facing the abjured and they’ll just go around fighting off point the whole time, and you’ll wonder what’s up, then later once they’ve lowered themselves enough they’ll stomp everyone on their way back up. It’ll be just like the smurfing that’s going on now, but with their main accounts instead of alts.

While I recognize the importance of being able to lose divisions in an actually competitive ladder, the PvP in this game simply doesn’t have enough population to produce an actual competitive ladder where being at the top means something. This makes the entire concept fall apart. If high standing on the ladder isn’t a reward by itself, then the motivation to stay at that high standing is removed.

Is it wrong that my first thought upon seeing this was ’that’s a lot of work for something that’s never going to be read by a balance dev’?

Quite honestly, chrono is fine in PvE. We’re useful, strong, and BiS for pretty much every composition.

The issue is that mesmer is not fine in PvE, and any future specializations released will probably be just as bad.

That being said, this isn’t the worst thing in the world. While diversity in options is nice, having at least one strong option is ok. It’s not like PvP where build diversity directly affects whether you’re useful in a specific team comp or not. Chrono is needed for any PvE situation, and that means that we will always have a place for us.

Ohoni.6057:

This article is from 2011, well before launch.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-09-27-guild-wars-2-preview?page=3

Colin Johanson: Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. We want everyone on an equal power base. The rare stuff becomes the really awesome looking armours. It’s all about collecting the unique looking stuff and collecting all the other rare collectable items in the game: armour pieces, potentially different potions – a lot of that is still up in the air and we’ll finalise a lot of those reward systems as we get closer to release. And those come off of things like the bosses at the end of dungeons – the raids.

Yeah, but by the time launch came around, we had a better idea of what that actually meant, and that it would not, in fact, be anything like raids. Project change while in development, and things they day well before launch should not be taken as something that launch players were expected to know.

Note that he also said:
“Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game. "

Which was completely untrue within a couple months of launch.

That was completely true up until fractals were released, and only became semi-untrue at that point because of implementation blunders.

Yeah, I’m going to echo Silverkey here. This build is 99% tank, 1% support, 0% anything else. Your stated objective is to survive in zergs and throw out a ton of boons. You’ll probably survive, but you’re not going to throw out any boons. Your group healing is limited to the healing well; not enough to be significant on its own.

If you really want to be tossing out a lot of boons, you’ll probably need to go something more like heal mantra + runes of altruism and bountiful dissilusionment. However, even that build is going to be pretty weak on sharing boons that actually matter. A shout guardian would outclass this build in pretty much every way imaginable unfortunately.

reikken.4961:

What about Precision Strike? did you check that?

I did not. I didn’t think that one was ever bugged. I can check it later though.

redcomyn.4651:

Yeah, PU is worthless, also. My point is that I would rather not see suggestions that are bad for pve. Make suggestions that are good for both pve and pvp.

Not all traits/mechanics need to be good in both though. The important thing is that there is an appropriate quantity good for either one in various situations, but expecting all ideas and mechanics to be good in both is unrealistic. Just the very basic concept of powerful defense is something that’s very important in both WvW and PvP but totally neglected in PvE, and there’s no real way to reconcile that.

randomguy.1283:

Fay.2357:

randomguy.1283:

Fay.2357:

randomguy.1283:

Fay.2357:

randomguy.1283:

Fay.2357:

randomguy.1283:

Fay.2357:

So while it can be useful to be proficient at multiple classes, it’s definitely not necessary.

Chrono, Druid, warrior, tempest, revenant, and DH are all fine/great on every fight. Thief, engineer, and necromancer will vary in effectiveness and some groups will prefer that you not use one of those classes sometimes.

That being said, if you’re just trying to hop into random groups, it’s best to play as many classes as possible because that increases the chances that you can fill the role that someone wants. I only play chrono and despite chrono being present in every raid, not every raid group is looking for a chrono at any given point in time.

However, your best bet is joining a guild or permanent raiding group, finding a role to play, and mastering that role. Do some research on the fights to become familiar with them, and look around for guilds/groups recruiting for new members. Don’t be afraid of letting them know that you’re inexperienced, as most groups don’t mind bringing a newer player up to speed.

ewww revenant no

I’ve beaten gorse with 3 revenants in the raid. Since gorse has by far the tightest dps check of the bosses, clearly revenants are fine at the very least.

Was that before they got bugged? atm they are bugged so that their auto attack (that thing that used to do actual damage) no longer scales of weapon damage.

That was a week or two ago.

And didn’t they fix that already?

They have not, this is anet we’re talking about

Just tested it out, it seems fine.

Having the same stats with a white weapon and with an exotic weapon will yield the same damage on the 1st and 3rd hit of the auto attack, that’s what you need to test.

Went out and tested with a white weapon and an ascended weapon. Swapped around other pieces of gear so that total power was the same with both of them. The ascended weapon did substantially more damage with all parts of the autoattack.

There was actually just a post on reddit saying the opposite, and I’m getting confirmation from everyone in my guild that its still bugged, it still says its bugged on anet’s list of bugs. I’m really gonna need more than your word atm.

Ok, here we go.

First two screenshots (gw051 and gw052) show my two sets of stats used. I have a difference of 8 power, 1.58% critical chance, and .5% critical damage, which means that my damage stats are, for all intents and purposes, equal.

The next set of screenshots shows my damage vs the destroyer. gw053 contains the damage with the base quality sword. Note the relevant damage amounts:

1124 preparation thrust (crit)

1218 brutal blade (crit)
484 brutal blade (noncrit)

1426 rift slash 1 (crit)
612 rift slash 1 (noncrit)

230 rift slash 2 (noncrit)

The screenshot gw054 contains the damage dealt using the exotic sword. Note the relevant damage amounts:

1740 preparation thrust (crit)
826 preparation thrust (noncrit)

1947 brutal blade (crit)
884 brutal blade (noncrit)

2356 rift slash 1 (crit)

553 rift slash 2 (crit)
219 rift slash 2 (noncrit)

So from this data, we can draw a couple conclusions. The first is that the auto chain is mostly unbugged. You can see drastically higher damage when using the exotic sword. However, there is an exception, and that’s with the 2nd half of the rift slash attack. The exploding rift portion of the attack does not scale with weapon damage at all, as the noncrit range was almost identical in both tests.

So it’s mostly fixed. The exploding rift portion is not a huge amount of the total damage contribution, which means that revenant sword will still do most of the damage it’s supposed to do, but the bug does in fact still persist for that last bit of the attack chain.

katz.8376:

Fay.2357:

WoW has raids and GW2 didn’t have raids, and WoW lost people so clearly this is because people were driven away by raids.

he said they left a game with raids… to play a game without raids…

its not that the raids drove them away… and of course other factors are involved.. new shiny vs ancient. gameplay mechanic differences… all sorts of things…point being, tho. obviously they didn’t come here to play raids. and obviously they weren’t retained (or retained ENOUGH) by ones they had.

meh. >shrug<

It’s still a ridiculous conclusion to draw. Nobody is trying to say that that raids alone will sustain a game. The argument being made is that raids will attract a significant amount of players and give them a reason to continue playing the game without causing a downside elsewhere.

Yeah, some people probably have quit because of raids, but these people are an extremely noisy but extremely small minority. They’re the sort of people that skip from game to game getting irrationally angry about little things that don’t matter, and Anet couldn’t care less about these people once they’ve paid their HoT fee.

The majority of players don’t care either way. Raids won’t be something they do, but they also are intelligent enough to not get all fussy about the fact that raids exist, and that’s ok. These players are unaffected by raids in either a positive or a negative direction.

Additionally, raids don’t cause a significant strain on the Anet development capabilities. We know that the raid team is at most 5% of the total development team at Anet. This aligns very nicely with rough estimations of what proportion of players are active in raiding, making it a very good allocation of resources.

STIHL.2489:

IndigoSundown.5419:

STIHL.2489:

IndigoSundown.5419:

STIHL.2489:

You respond to my question with a Question?

Well, when you have an answer, I’ll be glad to listen to it.

Nice to see you only read the first sentence. Perhaps read the rest.

The rest of your post did nothing to address the actual question either. So, not to be rude, but when you can answer the question, I’ll listen.

So, it’s that way.

I ask a question, you answer it. It’s the way every discussion goes.

The only time this becomes a problem, is if you can’t actually answer the question.

Oh, wait, I can post numbers. At one point, there was the by now well-known post about WoW raids (back before LFR) being utilized by ~5% of the population. At least that’s the number I see raid haters post a lot. WOW’s high-water mark was 12M. 12M x .05 = 600,000 players. Subs are $15 per. $9M a month. Subtract half of that for reasons, like not all players paid the full sub (I’m being generous). $4.5M ultra-conservative estimate. That definitely helped sustain the game (remember, “helped” means “contributed to,” not, “was the mainstay of.”)

So, you got any numbers whatsoever to back up your assertion?

Numbers? Oh ok, I have over 6 million copies of this game sold, before it had raids in it, and the fact that WoW Lost 4 Million Subscribers during the time when GW2 launched.

That means, people, by the millions would gladly leave a game with Raids, to play a game without them.

Do you have anything even remotely close to that?

I think this is probably the most egregious failure to recognize correlation vs causation that I have ever seen.

WoW has raids and GW2 didn’t have raids, and WoW lost people so clearly this is because people were driven away by raids.

wat

There are so many other more powerful factors here. How about WoW being ancient and boring combat? How about WoW having ancient and boring quest archetypes, confrontational node gathering and kill stealing and aging graphics and a changing consumer base?

You’re just cherry picking 2 completely unrelated pieces of information, drawing lines between them and then claiming a great success! I think this method of fallacious arguing was popularized by Rush Limbaugh and his infamous chalkboard. You would be wise not to emulate it.

randomguy.1283:

Fay.2357:

randomguy.1283:

Fay.2357:

randomguy.1283:

Fay.2357:

randomguy.1283:

Fay.2357:

randomguy.1283:

Fay.2357:

So while it can be useful to be proficient at multiple classes, it’s definitely not necessary.

Chrono, Druid, warrior, tempest, revenant, and DH are all fine/great on every fight. Thief, engineer, and necromancer will vary in effectiveness and some groups will prefer that you not use one of those classes sometimes.

That being said, if you’re just trying to hop into random groups, it’s best to play as many classes as possible because that increases the chances that you can fill the role that someone wants. I only play chrono and despite chrono being present in every raid, not every raid group is looking for a chrono at any given point in time.

However, your best bet is joining a guild or permanent raiding group, finding a role to play, and mastering that role. Do some research on the fights to become familiar with them, and look around for guilds/groups recruiting for new members. Don’t be afraid of letting them know that you’re inexperienced, as most groups don’t mind bringing a newer player up to speed.

ewww revenant no

I’ve beaten gorse with 3 revenants in the raid. Since gorse has by far the tightest dps check of the bosses, clearly revenants are fine at the very least.

Was that before they got bugged? atm they are bugged so that their auto attack (that thing that used to do actual damage) no longer scales of weapon damage.

That was a week or two ago.

And didn’t they fix that already?

They have not, this is anet we’re talking about

Just tested it out, it seems fine.

Having the same stats with a white weapon and with an exotic weapon will yield the same damage on the 1st and 3rd hit of the auto attack, that’s what you need to test.

Went out and tested with a white weapon and an ascended weapon. Swapped around other pieces of gear so that total power was the same with both of them. The ascended weapon did substantially more damage with all parts of the autoattack.

There was actually just a post on reddit saying the opposite, and I’m getting confirmation from everyone in my guild that its still bugged, it still says its bugged on anet’s list of bugs. I’m really gonna need more than your word atm.

I’ll test again this evening and take some screenies to confirm.