Guild Wars 2

This…is a really good observation.

NecroN.8306:

@Sebrent
The point is that the current master trait 20% reduction to all GS skills as it stands is far superior. Versus the new GM trait at 2% per spatial surge that give diminishing return as your cd’s count down.

I highly doubt they would code it so that the reduction is recalculated based on the current state of the skill recharge. That would be needlessly intensive and would make little sense.

The way this trait will be coded is it will take the recharge of a skill (x seconds), multiply it by the recharge modifier (2%) to get a value (x*.02 seconds) that it will remove from the recharge every time the trait triggers.

Assuming that it triggers 3 times per Spacial surge, it means that you could potentially recharge either 6 or possibly up to 18% (3 target pierce) every time you use an auto.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Only the activation part will, not the passive ticking (that’d be OP as all hell if it did).

Note that for mantra of restoration (or whatever the healing one is called), this works when prepping the mantra and when using each of the mantra’s charges. So this trait synergizes quite nicely with the mantra.

Otherwise, it’s only on the activated portion of any other healing skill.

Unless they changed it yesterday, preparing the mantra does not activate mender’s purity, only activating it does.

serenke.4806:

StickerHappy.8052:

Arshay Duskbrow.1306:

No matter what anyone else says, no matter what positive spin people try to put on it, Thieves are getting even stronger and we will still have no way to deal with them. Short of receiving active stealth-canceling abilities, Mesmer is and will remain a “PvP-centric” profession that can’t PvP because we are effectively deleted from the game by another profession.

FYI, Thieves only hard counter Zerker Mesmers. NOT ALL.

And every non-zerker mesmer is a joke. I’ve had a nice 1v1 with some yesterday (several different mesmers in different matches) where i could just spam /shrug while they were trying to MtD me or danced around producing clones that did put “copious amounts of conditions” on me that i could cleanse away. Each time i just capped the point while they were pulling off their awesome combos…. Pretty impressive.

They could have killed a thief though. I’ll give them that.

It’s quite possible that they were just….bad. If they were actually good, you wouldn’t have been able to easily cleanse away all the conditions.

Alternatively, you’re just giving an inaccurate representation of what actually happened for the purpose of forum posturing. That’s also a possibility.

Levetty.1279:

So I don’t think we are going in as blind as were back then.

You’re certainly right here. This is the reason any credible theorycrafting is really possible at all right now. However, you have to remember the origins of this word. ‘Theory’ ‘Crafting’. Until something is tested and tried…it’s still just theory. Making hard statements and predictions about what will and will not happen is overstepping the bounds of what is reasonable right now.

And we can plainly see here that they have focused way too much on two narrow build types (interupt and shatter) that aren’t really suitable for every mode.[/quote]

Really? Signet builds got an enormous buff, with every signet trait on the tree condensed into one. Non-pve mantra builds got some significant buffs, with some traits made baseline, some combined, and some combined into other strong traits.

Shatter builds got boosted in multiple different ways…but there is a massive range of shatter builds that got buffed. Not only were power shatter builds buffed, but condie shatter was drastically boosted. Additionally, even support shatter builds have seen significant buffs.

It’s disingenuous to say that ‘just shatter and interrupt’ were buffed.

Levetty.1279:

On top of that power shatter will still most likely be chased out of PvP by theif and fishing for interupts will still be sub par to more general lockdowns that don’t rely on actual interupting.

Power shatter may well have gotten the edge it needs to fight thief in the form of a guaranteed and easily accessed stun from confounding suggestions. Small changes like that can have large ramifications in a fight.

If you feel that interrupts are worse than general lockdowns…why is that a problem? If lockdown is your thing, mesmer does that quite well.

Vieux P.1238:

Morfedel.4165:

From what I recall reading Dulfy’s recap of the video, they are CONSIDERING a passive swiftness buff.

Assuming Dulfy quoted correctly: “Signet of Inspiration may grant passive swiftness and one extra boon. We are trying that out right now”

so it might happen, but it doesnt sound like a guarantee.

Go see the vid.. he use the exact word guaranty swiftness & an extra boon.. they just dint know witch one yet. thats why im asking witch boon should it be?

You’re making this so absurdly complicated. They’re not doing some sort of groundbreaking rework to the signet, they’re just adding 10 seconds of swiftness as a guaranteed boon in addition to the normal functionality.

It never ceases to amaze me how people manage to read full-length novels from a sentence of an Anet dev.

adelaide.6213:

Fay.2357:

Hate to rain your parade but…this won’t work.

So back when Lyssa runes gave all the boons for a couple seconds, I did a bit of a test. I got 5 mesmers together, got everyone to pop their elite, and then instantly pop SoI. This gave 5s to each person. In theory, one mesmer would end up with 5 -> 10 -> 20 -> 40 -> 80 seconds of boons, and this could be maintained indefinitely by using SoI off of cooldown.

In practice…this doesn’t work. There is a duration stacking cap for boons. Once you have a certain number of applications of that boon, it will stop stacking entirely until it is gone from you.

So, how will this interact with quickness? Well…that depends on exactly how they implement it of course, but it doesn’t look promising. That initial 10 seconds of quickness is made of 20 different 1 second pulses each overlapping by one second. This alone might make it completely resistant to stacking longer. If you do pop SoI after this, you’ll be doubling all of those stacks on everyone, and then doubling again for each additional SoI. Some point along the line of doubling it’s just going to not work.

Just curious:
Did your testing indicate that SoI generated boons that stack in duration as one stack with a long duration, or copy the source boon’s stack wholesale?

It indicated that it carried over the number of stacks that the original boon was made of. If it was the former, you could theoretically stack it up as high as you could, then pass it to another set of mesmers to stack it even higher. This did not work (tested it).

Hate to rain your parade but…this won’t work.

So back when Lyssa runes gave all the boons for a couple seconds, I did a bit of a test. I got 5 mesmers together, got everyone to pop their elite, and then instantly pop SoI. This gave 5s to each person. In theory, one mesmer would end up with 5 → 10 → 20 → 40 → 80 seconds of boons, and this could be maintained indefinitely by using SoI off of cooldown.

In practice…this doesn’t work. There is a duration stacking cap for boons. Once you have a certain number of applications of that boon, it will stop stacking entirely until it is gone from you.

So, how will this interact with quickness? Well…that depends on exactly how they implement it of course, but it doesn’t look promising. That initial 10 seconds of quickness is made of 20 different 1 second pulses each overlapping by one second. This alone might make it completely resistant to stacking longer. If you do pop SoI after this, you’ll be doubling all of those stacks on everyone, and then doubling again for each additional SoI. Some point along the line of doubling it’s just going to not work.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

@Fay: That sounds like a less-than-subtle “shut up with your knee-jerk proclamations Chaos! You know nothing!”

…. /lockdown2015

It does go both ways, yes =P.

Levetty.1279:

StickerHappy.8052:

Levetty.1279:

Once again no actual arguments about how these people are wrong, just sticking your fingers in your ears and saying ‘nuh uh’. Its almost as if you don’t actually have an argument.

Dude no offense, your post history shows you complain a lot.

#realtalk

Once again you have not told me how I am wrong in what I am saying because you can’t.

No worries, I can tell you how wrong you are. Let me just quote myself here:

Fay.2357:

…And lastly, that all being said, I recognize that there’s simply several orders of magnitude too much information that we’ve been deluged with to armchair theorycraft our way out of this mess. I didn’t reach my level of understanding about this class by sitting on the forums and tearing apart new builds that people post, contrary to what some might believe. I reached my level of understanding by playing mesmer for thousands of hours, testing, trying, experimenting, and learning.

The amount of changes that we’ve just been shown are comparable to the amount of uncertainty that we approached this game with as new players years ago. Anyone that thinks to make definite proclamations about how things will or won’t play out post-expansion is simply wrong. Anyone that claims to know what’s going to happen, what’s going to be greatest and what’s going to be worst, is just spouting empty rhetoric. The only thing that can be said with absolute certainty right now is that nobody knows what’s going to happen. We’re going to have to get the changes, play the changes, and figure it out for ourselves.

Only after that will we be able to know.

Hopefully that clears it up for you.

Nah, OP is simply the one guy that for some reason thinks mesmers are overpowered in PvE right now, and is for some reason worried about us getting stronger (purely because of sharing one boon?) post-expansion.

stamps.4089:

Apparently Fay and phokus don’t know how to read my original comment in which I state that “Mind Wrack is (now) GM trait in domination and was buffed.” in which I used the terminology Mind Wrack because that’s what OP was referring to. I am well aware it was renamed, didn’t think I needed to spell that out…

Nothing was renamed.

There is currently a trait called mental torment. There will be a buffed trait called mental torment.

There is currently no trait called mind wrack. There will be no trait called mind wrack.

There is currently a shatter skill named mind wrack. There will be a shatter skill named mind wrack.

I hope that clears it up for you. OP was simply a victim of incomplete note reading, and was completely wrong.

Noss.4105:

Offerande.5240:

But the bassist remains the same.

I let out a small gust of air through my nose when I read this.

No matter how hard he tries, a bassist will always remain a bassist.

You know what they say; you can take the bass away from the bassist, but you can never get the bassist out of the bass.

High quality thread right here.

BlackDevil.9268:

Wouldn’t call it free if you have to invest 33% of your spec points in it.

For all of the trait lines that used to reduce cooldowns or something for a profession mechanic, they’ve made half of that baseline and put the other half in a minor trait for that line.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Quick look around, Chaos is a musthave everywhere…

• Interrupt = Domination (CS+Shattered Concentration+PB) / Dueling (Ddiscipline+Blinding Dissipation+HM or DE) / Chaos (MoM+Chaotic Dampening+CI)

• Shatter base = Domination (CS+Shattered Concentration+Mental Torment) / Dueling (DDiscipline+Blinding Dissipation+DE)
  + One of these :
• Power shatter variant = Illusions (CP+SoaF+MoF)
• Support shatter variant = Insipration (Mender’s/Restorative Illusions/Shattered Conditions)
• Shatter/Interrupt variant = Chaos (MoM/Chaotic Dampening/CI)

• Condi shatter = Dueling (Ddecoy+Blinding Dissipation+DE) / Chaos(MoM+Chaotic Dampening+CI) / Illusions (Pledge/MalliciousS/Miam)

• PvE no reflect = Domination (Empowered Illusions+Blurred Inscriptions+Mental Torment) / Dueling (Ddiscipline+Blade Training+HM) / Illusions (CP+Phantasmal Haste+MoF)

• PvE reflects = Domination (Empowered Illusions+Blurred Inscriptions+Mental Torment) / Dueling (Phantasmal Fury+Blade Training+HM) / Insipration (Mender’s/Warden’s Feedback/Illusionary Inspiration)

• PvE when the guard rerolls thief DPS = Domination (Empowered Illusions+Blurred Inscriptions+Mental Torment) / Insipration (Mender’s/Warden’s Feedback/Temporal Enchanter) / Illusions (CP+Phantasmal Haste+MoF)

You do realize that less than half of the builds you just posted use the chaos line? Hardly ‘everywhere’.

Dazzling glamours is gone, yes. That being said…how on earth can that be a large part of your defenses. A blind every 35 seconds?

The confusion thread is this way —> https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Confusion-Dilemma/first#post5006507

Moa is obviously not a signet. Moa is obviously not a mantra. Moa is obviously not a clone skill. Moa is obviously not a glamour.

Therefor, by process of elimination, Moa is a manipulation.

A similar process can be done for mass invisibility, also probably terminating at manipulation.

stamps.4089:

Fay.2357:

stamps.4089:

People in this thread not being completely clear:

Mind Wrack is GM trait in domination and was buffed.

No, mental torment is the GM trait in domination, and it has been buffed.

Mental Torment is just the old Mind Wrack trait renamed…

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mental_Torment

What was that you were saying?

?

/charlength

Fanolian.8415:

Caelus.7139:

That’s when you revive someone, it’s from the old revive trait, nothing changed.

That is what I hope too. The new text should only applies to the revive version of Feedback, which does not change.

You say this as if it’s not certain what it does. This trait has existed for a long time…and it’s still there. Just look under the feedback tooltip, it shows the medic’s feedback.

Fanolian.8415:

It seems that the 10s cooldown for Medic’s Feedback is removed, or just another oversight.

Probably just not hooked yet.

Honestly, I wouldn’t bother trying to figure out mechanics from those tooltips. Tooltips on the alpha server are going to be 12 types of borked depending on what is hooked up, what isn’t hooked up, and what is hooked up the wrong way.

stamps.4089:

People in this thread not being completely clear:

Mind Wrack is GM trait in domination and was buffed.

No, mental torment is the GM trait in domination, and it has been buffed.

Master of fragmentation is the GM trait in illusions. Due to how trait facts work, when a trait modifies a skill or uses a skill, it shows that modified or used skill. This is how it works now, which is why I’m a little confused as to all the people getting up in arms about this particular thing. People saw ‘mind wrack’ floating there above master of fragmentation and went ballistic.

Frost.5017:

The mes forums here have an uhealthy stiffy for interrupts, and Fay used to be the voice of reason but something has happened to him along the way. Interrupts aren’t very reliable due to the short cast times of most skills in this game. Interrupt fishing does not equal skillful interrupting key skills.

Woah there now, let’s not get hasty. Let’s review a couple things.

First off, lets just consider for a moment that the condition ‘slow’ is being introduced to the game. ‘Slow’ is an action speed debuff. This means that previously un-interruptable skills may very well become interruptable when under the effect of slow. Additionally, since Chronomancer is our specialization…we’re probably going to have ample access to slow.

Now, that being said…I personally don’t usually prefer to play the interrupt style. I generally lean more towards a condie-sustain type of build. To that effect, PU has been massively buffed, and the synergy between several of the traits and effects they’ve announced is potentially incredible.

Now….that also being said, I recognize that other classes are also receiving very significant buffs. I recognize things like perma-diamond skin eles potentially making things really awful for condie builds. I recognize things like thieves getting significant boosts to their damage output. I do recognize that it’s probably not going to be all sunshine and roses post-expansion.

And lastly, that all being said, I recognize that there’s simply several orders of magnitude too much information that we’ve been deluged with to armchair theorycraft our way out of this mess. I didn’t reach my level of understanding about this class by sitting on the forums and tearing apart new builds that people post, contrary to what some might believe. I reached my level of understanding by playing mesmer for thousands of hours, testing, trying, experimenting, and learning.

The amount of changes that we’ve just been shown are comparable to the amount of uncertainty that we approached this game with as new players years ago. Anyone that thinks to make definite proclamations about how things will or won’t play out post-expansion is simply wrong. Anyone that claims to know what’s going to happen, what’s going to be greatest and what’s going to be worst, is just spouting empty rhetoric. The only thing that can be said with absolute certainty right now is that nobody knows what’s going to happen. We’re going to have to get the changes, play the changes, and figure it out for ourselves.

Only after that will we be able to know.

And please, the identity is in the sig, not the name.

Goodness, the overreaction. Please. Please. PLEASE pay closer attention to what’s actually been said and release before making ridiculous threads like this.

My gut tells me the math is accurate, but it’s completely worthless.

Right now, there are far more possible permutations of trait setups. How many are viable?

It doesn’t matter how many ways you can jumble up your traits, it only matters whether those particular ways are even remotely worthwhile.

Having no built-in dps meter hasn’t stopped anyone from min-maxing for dps…it’s just made it a bit more awkward to do.

Zarathustra.1458:

There is some consistancy to that Fay, just imagine, the time the Mesmers get a buff it is negated not by nerfs but because the buffs to everyone else were bigger….

Actually, thinking about it more…if they don’t heavily nerf Diamond skin, it’s going to be unbelievably overpowered.

Close to 100% of ele builds used in any PvP of the game go somewhat into earth. This means that close to 100% of ele builds used in any PvP of this game will take diamond skin. Lets consider the ramifications of this for a moment.

Diamond skin isn’t just immunity to damaging conditions. It’s also immunity to chill, cripple, immobilize, vuln, all those fun utility conditions that help keep things in line. With diamond skin, none of those will work unless you use power burst to drop their hp rapidly. Also remember that eles have enormous healing, which is why diamond skin is so effective on the builds that do take it.

Basically this will mean that any condition build wanting to deal damage to an ele will need to partner with a bursty power build. The one will not function without the other. Aside from being a massive slap in the face to mesmers, it’s also a punch in the gut to condie engies, necros, rangers…anyone that likes using condie builds for PvP. Considering how eles are heavily prevalent, it’s likely that you’ll literally never be able to play a match as a condie build without bashing your face against the brick wall that is diamond skin.

This…ugh.

Zarathustra.1458:

That all said I suspect the area to be concerned is not simply the shield, but just how much warriors and ele’s are likely to be improved by such consolidations.

Yeah, this is more my concern. I’m almost completely sure that most mesmer styles will be getting a significant buff from this rework. The issue is gonna be something like how literally every PvP ele is going to have diamond skin. That could just be 12 types of awful, and will delete the viability of condition builds more than any changes to the builds themselves could do.

Noss.4105:

Any build that beats you I guess.

/thread

I think that calling it a ‘New Moment-to-Moment combat style’ is nothing more than the absurd rhetoric that Anet loves to spout. The changes aren’t going to remake the class and game; combat is still going to be very similar to how it is now.

That being said, a lot of the changes we’ve now heard about are potentially substantial boosts to mesmer. Crying doom and gloom at this point is silly.

alanis.6094:

Per the “rest of your team is 4v2” argument, I addressed that in the final part of my post. I.e., if the other team is spending time trying to 3v1 you, nobody’s spec on either side in that match really matters as your team was going to win regardless.

Sure, but it still counts 1v2.

alanis.6094:

As an aside, I can win 1v2

Go on…

alanis.6094:

(primarily if one of them isn’t an ele and both enemies aren’t glass).

Ah. See….that rarely happens. The vast majority of the time you’re gonna fighting something + a celery build. PU can easily maintain a 1v2 (and win if they’re not careful). MtD cannot.

messiah.1908:

if they notice you arepu then they will leave it with 1 d/p thief or dd ele or shout warrior

If you lose 1v1 to a d/p thief, d/d ele, or shout warrior on PU…you’re doing something immensely wrong. A shout warrior is actually a pain to kill, but the other two will die rapidly if they try to fight you on point. The nice thing about point control matches is that if they want to be on point, they have to be in range of the clone-deaths, and that means a lot of condie load.

messiah.1908:

while you poping in an out of stealth accomplish nothing

Your repeated adherence to this argument just says that you have no idea how to play that build effectively. Alanis at least makes logical sense. If you’re forced to pop in and out of stealth, you’re in a 1v2 or 1v3 situation…and then your control over the point doesn’t matter. If you’re popping in and out of stealth in a 1v1…you’re just not good enough.

messiah.1908:

or they can 1v2 you with immobilize and fast burst from panic strike and you’re done. leaving you team with 4v5 for 10 sec

Yeah, uh. If you get killed in a panic strike burst as a PU condie mesmer…you’re not good. You have more than enough condition removal, stunbreaks, and mobility to avoid any sort of gimmicky instagib like that.

messiah.1908:

any build of the mesmer isnt for 1vX

You’re obviously wrong here, PU condie is for 1vX.

@Alanis: The main key is reliably being able to do what you set out to do, namely either take a point or force them to devote multiple people to it. If that has a conditional of no eles/glass builds…you can’t do it reliably. MtD can’t do it reliably while PU condie can, and that’s the difference. You can certainly play MtD effectively in a slightly different role, but it doesn’t perform this role as reliably.

@messiah: Literally every argument you’ve made is a function of one of two things. You either have no idea how to leverage the build effectively, or you’re simply bad at the build. Pick one, mix and match, either way your arguments aren’t valid.

alanis.6094:

Fay.2357:

I’ll give you a quick hint though: MtD will lose rapidly in anything worse than a 1v1. PU can maintain a 1v3.

But what is the virtue of being able to survive a theoretical 1v3 as PU?

-You obviously won’t be able to hold or take a point.

-You aren’t going to be able to kill any of them.

-In theory, you are taking 3 of them from somewhere else. But 1) they are getting points wherever you are; and more importantly 2) if 3 enemies actually waste time trying to kill you by yourself, then it might be the case that you could win 1v2/3 as MTD vs their skill level.

The point is that you’re fighting a 1v3. This means that the rest of your team is fighting 4v2. Yes, they’ll have the point you’re fighting around. No, you’re not going to kill them. However, the remaining 4 members of your team (assuming at least minimal competence) will be able to easily secure and maintain a 2 cap. Just a quick note…a 2 cap will win you the game pretty quickly. Best part is that after they secure that, they could even come and help you at the 1v3, and potentially turn that into a 3 cap.

The likelihood of actually being able to kill people in a 1v2 or 1v3 as MtD is incredibly small, even against poor players. With more players, you have more condition removal, more targets that you need to share damage against. It’s just not feasible unless the players are so bad that you’d be able to steamroll them with PU conditions anyway. The key about maintaining that 1v3 as PU is that you’re not trying to kill them. You’re simply playing an extended game of hide and seek; dancing around and near the point, hopping in and out of stealth, blinking back and forth. If you directly engage 3 people, you die. If you play hard-to-get…you can live if you’re good enough.

Regardless, the strategy isn’t something that I’m just postulating, it works quite fine. I used it for quite a while when I PvPed, and enjoyed very significant success with it.

messiah.1908:

sry if i sound too harsh
but pu trait works on stealth thus if you aint using much stealth you just spend points where not needed and could get like mtd trait instead
if you dmg isnt coming mainly from clones death or staff clones then play mtd shatter instead or power shatter
or even play power pu 4,4,6,0,0 which is more fun and active

and yes contrary to callipoe with 4 stealth skills you can manage to rotate them which will give you enough time being stealth almost like a thief (no d/p ones) while your clones do all the work for you. but if you manage to stay out of the shadow long enough pu wont buff you much.
and one more thing learn to act like a clone with pu so your enemy have hard time to notice you. dont move much , move in strait line, use AA etc

You should read the guide I linked. As I said, if you use it intelligently, you’re not just sitting around playing hide and seek. I’d explain it here…but I’ve already typed out an extensive guide.

I’ll give you a quick hint though: MtD will lose rapidly in anything worse than a 1v1. PU can maintain a 1v3.

MailMail.6534:

Just had some fun doing a quick theory craft session. There’s probably better places to look for PU builds besides myself, but here’s what I came up with on the fly:

Power PU http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNAscRlknpMtNqxGNcrRiqhY6XpahyupJVgSVC-TJhFwAAOFAMeCAj2fYaZAA

Condition PU http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fhAQNArfWlknpRtFqxBNcrNiuxY6H6oBUuzPlMgdB-TJRHwAJLDA4UAI4JAEa/BA

Go ahead and take a look at the link I have in my solo queue guide for condition PU. A couple things:

• Signet of Domination is a really bad choice. The 180 condition damage isn’t worth it, considering how incredibly strong the utility you’re giving up for it is (blink). Additionally, you don’t actually want to stun the people you fight. Stun means no movement, no skill uses, and so no damage from your conditions.
• Retaliatory shield is obviously a bad trait, but it looks like you picked it due to lack of a better option. Taking blink instead of the signet gives a pretty clear choice of far range manipulations in that slot.
• Runes of the krait are definitely solid. I personally prefer undead for the higher defense and condition damage. I just feel that the 6 bonus on krait isn’t particularly effective combined with MI. Nightmare runes are also definitely a solid option.
• The choice between 4 in dom or 4 in illusions is a personal one. I personally prefer domination. Traiting the torch gives you more condition removal and higher access to stealth. Additionally, the control over a fight that crippling dissipation gives you is quite significant. That being said, the higher condition damage from illusions + IE is significant as well.

I should be fine with that date, go ahead and add me.

For more specifics on how to actually use PU builds in an intelligent manner instead of just randomly spamming stealth, see: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-A-Mesmer-Guide-to-Solo-Queue/first#post4060868

Yes, it’s viable unless you want to compete in the WTS.

EremiteAngel.9765:

true true, I’m not against ppl using LOS since I think it is legit tactics.
But to win someone because you hid behind something is not something I want to do! Not against anyone who does it though. Everyone has their own way of thinking and playing =D

Each to their own I guess. I’ll continue demolishing people that constrict themselves with odd and artificial rules of fighting, and folks like you will continue to get demolished by those that play to win.

jportell.2197:

There is heavy speculation that we may get a main hand pistol since the devs said we are getting something “just as good” kitten new total weapon skills. But who knows

No, there was heavy speculation about mainhand pistol. Then the devs said explicitly that each class would only be getting a single new weapon.

Oddly enough, there still is some speculation about a mainhand pistol. Why there still is, one can only guess.

kazi.6438:

I’ve done a lot of commanding with this build. Huge amount of survivability

Your definition of huge survivability is obviously different from the rest of ours. Half celestial-half zerker is on the glassier side, not survivable.

kazi.6438:

+ you can burst down scrubs in seconds.

Why? You’re a commander, not part of a pick team. If you’re burning enough cooldowns and time to burst someone down in seconds, you’re probably not doing it right.

kazi.6438:

The key is maintaining the proper amount of space (kite, followed by brief melee bursts here and there).

If you try to do this while commanding, your zerg will fall apart, guaranteed.

@OP: Ross Biddle basically made a ton of good points, and there are other recent threads you can dig up on the same topic. Ignore everything that was said in the post I’m quoting.

Slackoth.2108:

Obtena.7952:

The OP doesn’t make his case well, but there is a damage problem with Mesmer.

Mesmer only does good damage in very specific situations. I can assure you that they are the worst damage when it comes to killing trash. This makes them awful in open world.

Engineer says hi

Engineer with 1500 range spammable aoes, spammable pbaoes, spammable cone aoes, and multiple autoattack aoes? Right…

MailMail.6534:

Sebrent.3625:

But we have Shattered Concentration, MH Sword, Greatsword, Null Field, and Phantasmal Disenchanter for removing boons … all on shorter cooldowns (if a cooldown at all).

There’s drawbacks and advantages to all those skills you listed. Also, if you aren’t running power shatter, your use of utilities become instantly much more variable. AT is not a great skill by far, but when functioning properly, I see niche uses where it is pretty effective.

Generally speaking, AT is a worse boon strip than almost every other option in every build. It’s also a worse condition removal than almost every other option in every build.

AT is only worth putting on your bar if you get mileage out of the actual steal…and that’s incredibly unreliable unless you know exactly what and how you’ll be fighting.

Bonedoctor.2796:

Nope , im talking both . They did nerf them but they are still more than viable . They take fine tuning and understanding there skill rotations . Your phantasm getting killed is part of that . I count on that due to the debuffs they put off on there deaths . That is actually a huge part of there dps many people are missing ( I think) . I feel like there still to strong and need another nerf but thats me apparently . I never ever even keep them up long enough to get killed , I pop them myself by restarting the rotations and pulling them back out again . Heck I brought my brothers back to this game by showing them how to play it . Now they can run any content and not feel like there useless . I am not trying to sound like an elitist , I just dont know what you guys arent doing , there dps is kinda like nonstop burst with 0 cd’s and mini tanks to keep threat off you and unlimited ways to escape death . There just an amazing class that is so powerful I get bored playing it now .

This entire paragraph says to me that you’ve never stepped foot inside a dungeon. Mini tanks that keep threat off you? Actually having phantasms that survive for their cds? This is open world rambling, not anything worthwhile.

Kraljevo.2801:

Krispera.5087:

Yes you can cast it from behind now. We couldn’t before, you needed LoS.

Really? Nice!

Bye bye mantra of resolve.

Even assuming it works perfectly, it’s still drastically inferior to mantra of resolve as a condition removal.

Two skilled PU mesmers would be monumentally difficult to kill. However, compared to some of the other duo choices available, it would be overall ineffective. You won’t have a lot of pressure on people, and it’ll be extremely difficult to chase.

My recommendation is generally either roaming with a very glassy thief or a good celery dagger ele. Both provide the chase potential and pressure that you lack, and you provide a lot of good support conditions and allow (particularly the thief) to back off and pick targets without worrying about you dying.

Xyonon.3987:

The only thing accurate is that phantasms die fast.

Which happens to be roughly half of that post…

kolompi.1287:

Vague Memory.2817:

Mes doesn’t really benefit from a glass cannon build, because the base damage is comparatively low, especially due to the relying on phantasms and clones for damage, which have low health pools (even when traited for). So they can die before they pull off their skill, or only get one shot off.

What the heck.

Well, half of that statement is fairly accurate, just the conclusions drawn from it are…unique.

EremiteAngel.9765:

But on hindsight, even if it did, I would rather not LOS as it’s like depending on other things to win a fight. I really dislike LOSing…unless a LB ranger caught me unaware lol…

Using LoS to win a fight is simply applying tactics and strategy. If I extend your argument of ’it’s like depending on other things to win a fight’ to its logical conclusion, you’ll end up fighting toe to toe, using only autoattacks, and never dodging. This obviously makes no sense.

Fight in the most skilled and tactful way possible. If you don’t win, find a way to enhance your skills and enhance your tactics until you do win.