Guild Wars 2

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

Everything is easily doable, just get 10 decent mesmers and build properly for each fight

If this were true it would be nice…

Unfortunately, you’re wrong.

No, i am not.

Feel free to explain your tactic for handling Keep Construct, I’ll be happy to tell you why it won’t work well.

Why would i try to explain anything to you after the mess you wrote earlier about each boss? Simply not worth the effort, just letting the other people know you can do it.

TheDevice.2751:

Oh i forgot the metaslave tactic to run cb and splash conditions everywhere by taking a nap on my keyboard.

So you refuse to counterplay whats currently being played alot and then proceed to complain about it on the forums?

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

Everything is easily doable, just get 10 decent mesmers and build properly for each fight

If this were true it would be nice…

Unfortunately, you’re wrong.

No, i am not.

Everything is easily doable, just get 10 decent mesmers and build properly for each fight

Edit: sorry, i forgot, not enough decent mesmers in the game to create the group

Aenaos.8160:

you still are not able to advance from ruby to diamond playing solo queue if you can’t play your class.

mhm, did you hear gw3 is coming out tomorrow?

I agree with OP, i think they should also bring back vampirism runes and all the amulets that were removed from pvp, especially minstrel. Im sure we can all agree that way the game will be more fun to play.

Cynz.9437:

Frostball.9108:

Luto.1938:

My question is why do thieves have this nerf to stealth attacks while other classes with stealth are unaffected. (Mesmers I’m looking at you.)

I think we should nerf mesmers stealth attack on greatsword. That should be good right? Greatswords been overpowered for 3 years now. Now whats the mesmers greatsword stealth attack? Should we invent one so we can nerf it? Cuz i definitely wouldnt mind having a stealth attack.

Actually by Anet’s logic they should put every class’ spell on additional extra CD, if it got dodged/avoided/blinded etc., e.g. if someone dodged through guard traps and didn’t get hit by them on first strike, then the trap should go on additional 20 sec on top of already existing one. Obviously, it is just plain stupid.

Just as stupid as stealth attacks nerfs given the current state of classes in this game – another indicator of how much devs know about thief class.

i havent played thief after the patch at all, how does it work now exactly? just 1 sec cd on every stealth attack if you miss or what? I mean its stupid no matter what cuz its a nerf to thief but im curious

Luto.1938:

My question is why do thieves have this nerf to stealth attacks while other classes with stealth are unaffected. (Mesmers I’m looking at you.)

I think we should nerf mesmers stealth attack on greatsword. That should be good right? Greatswords been overpowered for 3 years now. Now whats the mesmers greatsword stealth attack? Should we invent one so we can nerf it? Cuz i definitely wouldnt mind having a stealth attack.

Nightshade.2570:

Sometimes, the personal score does have a place and does indicate accurately.

No

http://i.memeful.com/media/post/BRkj4jM_700wa_0.gif

When i see a post in the forums about scores in pvp ECKSDEE

SOLO “Mesmer – Mesmer has taken a lot of defensive hits, resulting in it losing a lot more 1v1s. Thieves are more prevalent in solo queue, so Portal isn’t as useful. In team fights, other classes are always stronger. I considered putting Mesmer in C Tier, but I don’t think it deserves it quite yet. Regardless, Mesmer is probably the weakest class from a solo queue perspective.” Mesmer has taken defensive hits, but they havent been hits large enough to place mesmer anywhere below S in soloq unless youre not good simply because well you can do just about anything as mesmer.

“Engineer – While Scrapper took some hits to its Hammer skills, it’s probably the best defensive carry for solo queue based almost solely on the rez potential. It’s just as versatile as the Revenant, but with slightly more defensive tendencies.” Are you kidding me? Engi probably has one of the smallest impacts on how a game flows in soloq, while it is nice to have one, you need something to back it up and well you just cant trust in other people when it comes to soloq.

COMP “Mesmer – Mesmer is a tricky one to place. Unless Thief is meta, Mesmer is going to be an option because of the pure utility supplied by Portal. It’s more difficult to play in the current meta because of the nerfs to defensive cooldowns, but when played well it can bring a lot to the team.” Thief is not in “meta” at the moment as far as i know and probably even if it was mesmer would be close to S tier but for the moment it most definitely is S tier, a good mesmer can control the whole game. You simply cannot play without a mesmer and still be on the same level with other teams that are using mesmer, it is a must have in every competitive team for now, youll always be handicapped if you dont have one. Keep in mind im not saying its impossible to win without one, it just makes it harder.

There are probably more things that i didnt notice at first glance but those are the things that especially stuck out to me.

Edit: I dont see how me being banned affects this in any way as it has nothing to do with my game knowledge. If you want to take something out of it why not concentrate on how we managed to win a game even though i was playing with fairly subpar players vs a supposedly top team?

dmndbcK.3425:

Tbh bro, maybe you should just learn from Min Scherzo. He’s the only guy I’ve found who play’s thief that actually kills all of the above specs you mentioned with ease.

Your suggested nerfs are nothing more then voices of the hundreds of casuals who cry about things not dieng when they are just stupid at the game. As a thief, you shouldn’t be a) fighting DH’s, Wars, Rangers alone. b) running anything but d/p, staff in ranked and c) complaining about requiring nerfs when you can perma-cleave for days.

You have essentially named all of the current best specs and their traits/skills that make them the best. However, what you haven’t named are good player’s in top-tier that play them and show you that they are OP.

In casual play, sapphire division and below you will see that these builds destroy people who obviously have no idea what the dodge keys or immobilize is. Outside of that, you will rarely find good power warriors/dh’s/engi’s in upper diamond/legendary division. With this being said, no salt required. It’s time to start learning how-to not rely on your backstab so much and start innovating.

tl;dr OP is probably just another guy who is salty about getting slain on his thief consistently because he is not willing to innovate and adjust to change.
just my 2c

Out of the classes mentioned in the original post, only reapers and revenants are killable alone, unless the players are terrible.

I dont really understand what they wanted. Maybe they made the system so everyone regardless of their skill level or competence will get to legendary so they can have rewards, wouldnt be the first time they make something casual friendly. But they mentioned making divisions reflect skill more in the upcoming seasons so it doesnt really make sense.

Im pretty sure macros arent allowed in gw2, although the stuff you said with the traps doesnt really work since the macros really only work with instant cast skills. Only case ive ever seen macros be used was fresh air ele. If you just get things to muscle memory you can do it pretty much as fast anyway so doesnt really matter.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Khisanth.2948:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Khisanth.2948:

DoomKnightMax.6592:

Khisanth.2948:

learn to play skillfully rather than frantically smashing your keys?

Yes, because a 1 second delay on a skill which is only avalible in stealth implies skillful game play in a meta where blocks, invulnerability, aegis, blind, passives and Dodge spam is at its peak. Do you feel stupid now?

Anyone can push buttons. A skillful person pushes the right buttons at the right time while other people just try to smash all their keys as fast as possible.

Because people getting passive procs of Aegis and protection and with Aoe blinds flying around is so skillful.

They could get rid of those too.

On the other hand the only random proc I see on http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aegis is from Prismatic Understanding. The rest are either from using skills that provide aegis or known after first encounter(depending on skill of the attacker).

Shield of courage Auto Proc every 30-40 seconds on Guardian, and a then there is Hunter’s Determination of they get cc’d at all which procs Aegis and fragments that provide aegis. And let’s not forget there is also invuln other players get if a Mesmer uses distortion near them, passive defensive a fly around in team fights and in WvW with boonshare running wild.

But none of that is random, right?

I think this is technically the old system we had, some things were exclusive to pvp and wvw and pve but again i think they decided to merge them more at some point. Dont quote me on this, im not sure. Wasnt there something mentioned about this though by them? Some sort of improvement, i forgot what it was.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Frostball.9108:

Ross Biddle.2367:

TheDevice.2751:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Build to counter.

What this guy means is

Step 1: Go to metabattle
Step 2: Copy paste appropriate build
Step 3: Faceroll

Congrats you have just “adapted to the meta” like a pro gamer!

Actually, I build a hard counter and run it.

Then the response I get is “WHA WHA! But it’s not META, you don’t see that build in the ESL for a reason! (Cause we’re all playing in the ESL XD ) Sure you counter the (XYZ) but you’ll get beat up by (ABC).”

To which the solution is ‘Get better so you don’t die to ABC on your counter build’.

But that’s always the crux of the problem isnt it. “Git gud” is to much work for people XD

I much prefer just getting as good at that matchup as possible with your basic build, over time makes you a better player.

Time invested into a single class will do that regardless since the underlying mechanics don’t truly alter with a build change. That aside, sticking to a particular build can inevitably be to your detriment, the same way bringing a knife to a gun fight is a bad idea. It’s basic Play to Win philosophy.

Most likely your playstyle will change with the build, so you dont learn the things you would learn about the build/class if you keep swapping to something else. Also most likely youll end up playing worse on whats universally good if you choose to go the easier route. Bringing a knife to a gunfight is a bad example since youre never that big of an underdog, especially if you learn how to use the build to its full extent against everything. Realistically if youre able to do this youll never get properly countered in random queues, you can always work your way around it and come on top due to the lack of experience people have going against actually good players.

both of these lists are incorrect

Ross Biddle.2367:

TheDevice.2751:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Build to counter.

What this guy means is

Step 1: Go to metabattle
Step 2: Copy paste appropriate build
Step 3: Faceroll

Congrats you have just “adapted to the meta” like a pro gamer!

Actually, I build a hard counter and run it.

Then the response I get is “WHA WHA! But it’s not META, you don’t see that build in the ESL for a reason! (Cause we’re all playing in the ESL XD ) Sure you counter the (XYZ) but you’ll get beat up by (ABC).”

To which the solution is ‘Get better so you don’t die to ABC on your counter build’.

But that’s always the crux of the problem isnt it. “Git gud” is to much work for people XD

I much prefer just getting as good at that matchup as possible with your basic build, over time makes you a better player.

Ive only seen one and that was when my guildie made a pvp montage

duster.7013:

I’m new, here’s what I think are the class matchups

mes:
kittens on rogue
pees on necro
gets pooped on by DH
has a very bad matchup vs (skilled) condi warriors, but can win
gets pooped on by engi
would fight ele for eternity
slightly favored to win against rangers
equal against mes
Not enough unranked revs

I don’t know the 1v1’s for other classes as well, help me out

Matchup versus DH is hard but winnable, condi warrior matchup is easy, engi matchup varies, depending on what the engi runs and how good he is, most engis are bad so you wont have a problem, you kill ele unless he gives up the node, again ranger depends on how good the opponent is, in qs you will never have a problem but vs good players its a hard but winnable matchup.

Start gs2 channel, blink to target exactly before channel ends, f3 before gs2 hits, gs3+f1 (i cant remember for 100% sure but i think dodging right after gs2 makes your mirror blade not hit a second time so i would not recommend it), learn to do it as fast as possible. Leave f3 out if youre not playing domi with stun on daze. Thats probably the most standard one, depending on wep set you can hide this burst by phase retreating first and being behind your clones or immob instead of or with the stun if you have sword. As for condi mesmer its significantly worse to burst rather than to just keep up condi pressure most of the time.

I dont think its really possible to balance the randoms/small parties vs premade since theres always a possibility of voice com etc.

Erik Waananen.6089:

This is by design. We allow duo queues to pair up against full pre-made teams, but not a full group of solo queues. We changed this during Season 2.

As for the spread, it’s because those players are grouped up. For example, the Amber on Red Team is brought up to Sapphire level because they’re pairing with a Sapphire player. The Blue Team has Ruby players on it because they’re most likely in early Ruby which puts them within the range of upper tier Sapphire players for the purposes of matchmaking. The Emerald player is subsequently brought up because they’re grouped with higher division players.

I know that match-ups like this may seem off-kilter at first glance, but it’s entirely within the parameters we’ve set in the matchmaking algorithm and definitely by design. It looks like it was a close match though, so I’m glad you had fun!

I get why this happens, but i dont see why should others be punished because some people partying up with low ranked players. In this case the amber was probably just on a break on season 2 but for example i q a lot with people with little to no experience aswell. Doesnt it mean that the people that are in the team with the party in it are punished for no good reason at all? I dont mind losing games when im playing with a few amber friends or such but i can see it being pretty frustrating for others in the team.

Silverkey.2078:

R O C.6574:

Are you sure it’s not METABattle’s fault? I think 80% of PVPer’s just go there to get a decent build and go with it. The seasons get really competitive and everyone is paranoid that losing will trash their MMR. So the don’t risk experimental builds. I’ve been playing since 2012 and METABattle was not as prevalent as it is now. Back when the game was new, people had to come up with there own build and the META was a secret to be discovered. Now the best builds are laid out for all to see, so that’s all you see…

There used to be a site (can’t remember it now) that listed “glass cannon” “bunker” and “balanced” builds for every profession.

Metabattle is only partly responsible. Actually, one year ago metabattle had already a strong influence on PvP.

The problem is that the build diversity has effectively gone down.

Elite specs have some highly broken mechanics, which creates a huge difference between builds using and having synergy with them and builds which do not.

Also, the absurd pressure that enemies bring (with their own broken elite specs) force you to play a very specific way to be able to survive. For example, the amount of condition is insanely high, so you have very very hard time if you don’t spec against them.

Let us take an example: mesmer (my main).

1. The shield is probably our strongest off-hand with very high defense, very good CC, high illusion generation and some support. Alacrity pretty much improve anything we do as mesmer and F5 allow double cast anything we want. No other traitline give you so much. So we have to run chronomancer (broken elite spec)
2. We need to run inspiration if we want to survive the insane condition output of other classes (including enemy mesmers, how ironic!). Mesmer is otherwise very weak against condis.
3. we have now 1 traitline to pick. That leaves us domination for power, chaos for bunker and illusion for condi. Power has a really low damage output. The burst is high, but with all the defensive elements of enemies, it is not enough to really pressure someone, and we lack follow up damage. That leaves us bunker (Paladin) and condi (Mercenary). Our support is fairly low, so bunker, while definitely playable does not have the same kick as it used to. Condi survives almost as well if not better (benefits from CD reduction of illusion on both shatters and shield block) and synergize very well with the illusion spam traits that chronomancer give you (broken elite spec again). These illusion spam traits also synergize very well with inspiration for more cleanse and heal. Tadaa!!!!! A broken build.

Can you play bunker? Yes but you don’t gain survivability while you lose damage.
Can you play power? Yes, but you lose survivability and you have no damage after your initial burst which everyone can block/evade/invuln or simply fully heal right after.

So yes, in principle you have build diversity, but nowhere near as good as the broken meta specs and small minor variations around them.

You dont absolutely have to run condition removal, while elite specs do limit you there are still some things you can do on mesmer that have yet to be done, the only reason these things havent been used/discovered is because of other classes not fairing as well in the current mesmer role. If say druid could be as useful in the same role mesmer is in at the moment i can guarantee you you would see some variety in builds, the reason why mesmer is stuck in this role is because its quite a vital role and theres really no other class to fill it as well. Im pretty sure if youd be allowed to run 2 of each profession there could be double mesmer with potentially a different build but that brings forth other problems.

It absolutely isnt metabattles fault that the “pro” scene has no build variety, they create what comes up on that site, however metabattle does at least slightly affect what people run in ranked etc. I always try out new builds and such, you can definitely run different things and some things are even more efficient than the meta builds in things like soloq, theres still a decent amount of variety as long as you look out of the pro leagues.

No, there is no potential for warrior to counter condi mes. Mesmer wouldnt even need to use moa to beat this. Someone else told me something similar but after testing this matchup i can safely say it has no chance vs a good condi mesmer in the end. If the mesmer sets up properly, he will kill you in moa form, so it most definitely is bad.

With no redesigns that is ofc, so yeah, i see your point

Shellfish :P I barely played wvw on GH, gonna transfer soon. Yeah i can see that being a thing i guess, i dont really know what would make mesmer useful there though, im not experienced in raiding. Id imagine at least in bigger blobs everyone has half a min of every boon anyway. Mesmer doesnt really offer much aoe dmg so itd probably be pretty hard.

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

Portal has always been here, but we have never had the capabilities of condi mesmer paired with portal. Unless you want to keep having mediocre builds and be carried by these 2 skills they need to change so mesmers can get actual normal viable builds. I dont mind either but id imagine alot of people wouldnt in the end want to be completely locked to these 2 skills.

1v1s can be a big part of pvp. People always qqd about moa, but now theres actual reason to, theres no real big punishment so to say for missing moa when you can use it every 70s or so, and thats being generous.

So you’re forgetting history a bit here. Condie mesmer has always been top tier 1v1. A well played condie mesmer has been able to trash just about anyone else from the PU condie era onwards. Despite that, it’s never been considered viable or strong in PvP for many reasons. So obviously, there’s a difference now that’s making it viable, and most would agree that that difference is double moa plus the added defense of chronomancer.

Double moa affected it, sure, but before chronomancer it was not this tier, also class stacking being allowed before was another block for condi mesmer. The reason condi mesmer is good now is due to chrono line, without it, it would have no pressure whatsoever. If say condi mesmer couldve killed everything 1v1 in the shatter meta and still been useful in larger scale fights as it is now i think it wouldve been meta. This is in no sense a downgrade to our position comparing it to the shatter meta.

The amulet was something aswell, not the most impactful thing but another thing to be noted.

messiah.1908:

Frostball.9108:

I mean this is coming from a mesmer main, been playing it for ages, i should be able to tell whether or not the class im playing is too good in the current meta, others should be, too. Of course there will always be the people that QQ about mesmer but at the moment theres a genuine reason to. Is there a single person that thinks that a class with a moa every 60 ish seconds or so, have a portal play available every 70 seconds and the ability to 1v1 just about any class in the game is balanced? You can even CC and condi burst considerably well (considering the state of the class in other parts of the game) without talking of heal with well and invuln your teammates for guaranteed heal cast. I have to say the class is a bit crazy at the moment.

again i dont get this argument

moa and portal was there before so you only speak about CS which enable to doable moa alone. so portal is fine as it was fine long time ago.
so moa is the problem as it 80% of the time shut down ppl if it hits them. and the player not smart to kite dodge evade or his team dont support him

now the problem with the build

i am sure you rememeber the time mesmer could just 100-0 in 2 sec combo almost any class/build. ppl hate it cause ppl hate what they dont understand /see/ react/ or prevent them to react. so power mesmer got nerf while other got buff with direct dmg.

now after months of telling ppl why condi mesmer is op cause it shutdown almost any build out there with confusion and torment only now ppl QQ about it and take it with moa which is complete shutdown the QQ got stronger

now engi can fight mesmer on point also some good ranger build with condi cleanse
i think the problem is ppl forget about cleanse and drop 1 spot of utility for dmg/evade for it and now they QQ cause they dont have much cleanse
in pvp you must know that if you 1v1 for 1 min versus mesmer you have three options. try to win (low chances) , call for help for 1v2 which push the mesmer back of the point, leave the point and help somewhere else. condi build in the long run fight should win

why ppl stop QQ on necro with his condi bomb huge stack of poison and perma chill….

ppl hate to be moa and not smart to take more condi cleanse and 1v1 is not pvp at all you know that.

the only solution i can think of cause all the QQ is the turn CS to massive cd of skill and not recharge. like when using it each clone you had reduce cd of your skills by 15 sec . thus 4 clones are 60 sec so you got 30 sec more on moa cd. and for this nerf cs should give something else back. like if the rift is destroy or end it dos massive aoe dmg 360 r 5k unblockable or it heals you

but it will change all the concept or the mesmer controlling time

Alright so firstly, i dont think anything needs nerfs cuz of some randoms qqing. We had a balance talk with the league teams and anet and every single person in this talk agreed on mesmer being in a too strong state.

Portal has always been here, but we have never had the capabilities of condi mesmer paired with portal. Unless you want to keep having mediocre builds and be carried by these 2 skills they need to change so mesmers can get actual normal viable builds. I dont mind either but id imagine alot of people wouldnt in the end want to be completely locked to these 2 skills.

1v1s can be a big part of pvp. People always qqd about moa, but now theres actual reason to, theres no real big punishment so to say for missing moa when you can use it every 70s or so, and thats being generous.

You can nerf CS just by making it not affect moa. And yeah, the only thing that stands a chance 1v1 vs mesmer is druid, and only if the mesmer misses moa.

apharma.3741:

Frostball.9108:

apharma.3741:

Lets be clear here, it’s the elite spec that is “over tuned” (like all other elites), nerfing portal or anything else about base mesmer like you suggested earlier makes base mesmer even more uncompetitive. You even said it yourself, base mesmer isn’t competitive so you can’t justify increasing the cool down by a lot just because we have an elite spec with alacrity.

By the way mesmer DPS is completely terrible, bottom of the barrel terrible, source.

This is why mesmer is in the alacrity/quickness buff role and while I do agree being a best in slot indispensable pick for raids isn’t healthy for the game nor the class there is no other viable option. Mesmer wouldn’t even be considered for it’s utility which can, for the most part, be acquired from much higher DPS classes.

I dont care of base specs, i dont see anet trying to balance the new elite specs with base specs, having a cd nerf on continuum does not mean quickness mesmer would be unused.

Also to add, your source i believe has a quickness mesmers dps, which i believe is far worse from other builds that are not used due to quickness mesmer being very good, not at dps on its own but due to alacrity+quickness.

Yes I’m aware the test was on a quickness/alacrity build in the link. There was also a discussion on the forums asking what people were getting for their DPS and the results were very similar to be honest. The highest I got for DPS was with 2 phantasmal warlock and a swordsman with all conditions on the golem, completely unreasonable but there we go. I believe it becomes better than a swordsman at 6 conditions which means it’s likely not much if at all better in a realistic scenario.

You might not care about base specs but I for one like diversity. Feeling like one of my trait lines is mandatory is taking away a significant amount of diversity whatever the class. I do however acknowledge ANet isn’t exactly trying to bring down the elite specs though.

Cool down increase on CS will always be a nerf to PvE mesmer no matter which way you cut it. The better question in my opinion is should CS be in the game? I mean what will it be next that people complain about, double signet of domination, double null fields? Then what happens when ANet buffs a useless utility and it becomes worth it on it’s own? Double it and you create the next problem.

You could even just make moa incompatible with it, there are ways other than cd nerf. I think continuum is sort of a part of the chronomancer theme but i wouldnt mind too much if it got removed, almost just that skill makes chrono worth taking over other specs.

Frostball.9108:

apharma.3741:

Frostball.9108:

Fay.2357:

Yeah, it sorta would. Not the portal, the continuum split.

Nop, it would make it worse but not so it would be considered bad and imo it could use some toning in pve aswell. Isnt it pretty much an autoinclude in every group that plays with a full group?

Lets be clear here, it’s the elite spec that is “over tuned” (like all other elites), nerfing portal or anything else about base mesmer like you suggested earlier makes base mesmer even more uncompetitive. You even said it yourself, base mesmer isn’t competitive so you can’t justify increasing the cool down by a lot just because we have an elite spec with alacrity.

By the way mesmer DPS is completely terrible, bottom of the barrel terrible, source.

This is why mesmer is in the alacrity/quickness buff role and while I do agree being a best in slot indispensable pick for raids isn’t healthy for the game nor the class there is no other viable option. Mesmer wouldn’t even be considered for it’s utility which can, for the most part, be acquired from much higher DPS classes.

I dont care of base specs, i dont see anet trying to balance the new elite specs with base specs, having a cd nerf on continuum does not mean quickness mesmer would be unused.

Also to add, your source i believe has a quickness mesmers dps, which i believe is far worse from other builds that are not used due to quickness mesmer being very good, not at dps on its own but due to alacrity+quickness. However yeah, most likely a normal dps build on mesmer still does quite little damage.

apharma.3741:

Frostball.9108:

Fay.2357:

Yeah, it sorta would. Not the portal, the continuum split.

Nop, it would make it worse but not so it would be considered bad and imo it could use some toning in pve aswell. Isnt it pretty much an autoinclude in every group that plays with a full group?

Lets be clear here, it’s the elite spec that is “over tuned” (like all other elites), nerfing portal or anything else about base mesmer like you suggested earlier makes base mesmer even more uncompetitive. You even said it yourself, base mesmer isn’t competitive so you can’t justify increasing the cool down by a lot just because we have an elite spec with alacrity.

By the way mesmer DPS is completely terrible, bottom of the barrel terrible, source.

This is why mesmer is in the alacrity/quickness buff role and while I do agree being a best in slot indispensable pick for raids isn’t healthy for the game nor the class there is no other viable option. Mesmer wouldn’t even be considered for it’s utility which can, for the most part, be acquired from much higher DPS classes.

I dont care of base specs, i dont see anet trying to balance the new elite specs with base specs, having a cd nerf on continuum does not mean quickness mesmer would be unused.

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

I mean this is coming from a mesmer main, been playing it for ages, i should be able to tell whether or not the class im playing is too good in the current meta, others should be, too. Of course there will always be the people that QQ about mesmer but at the moment theres a genuine reason to. Is there a single person that thinks that a class with a moa every 60 ish seconds or so, have a portal play available every 70 seconds and the ability to 1v1 just about any class in the game is balanced? You can even CC and condi burst considerably well (considering the state of the class in other parts of the game) without talking of heal with well and invuln your teammates for guaranteed heal cast. I have to say the class is a bit crazy at the moment.

Problem with nerfing CS is that if you do that in the way that all the PvP folks want, chrono instantly becomes garbage in PvE.

Speaking purely from a utilitarian standpoint, PvP folks are going to have to deal with it until Anet comes up with an amenable solution that doesn’t dumpster chrono in PvE. Lets be honest here, while the PvP folks whine loudly, it actually only affects a grand total of ~12 pros and maybe a hundred or so serious PvPers. In the grand scheme of things, nobody cares. It’s not like the PvP balance problems are actually driving away a measurable amount of people, it’s too small to even remotely matter.

It wont affect the game much but unless i understood wrong, people think mes doesnt need a nerf. A nerf to continuum cd and portal cd would not make mes garbage in pve.

Yeah, it sorta would. Not the portal, the continuum split.

Nop, it would make it worse but not so it would be considered bad and imo it could use some toning in pve aswell. Isnt it pretty much an autoinclude in every group that plays with a full group?

Fay.2357:

Frostball.9108:

I mean this is coming from a mesmer main, been playing it for ages, i should be able to tell whether or not the class im playing is too good in the current meta, others should be, too. Of course there will always be the people that QQ about mesmer but at the moment theres a genuine reason to. Is there a single person that thinks that a class with a moa every 60 ish seconds or so, have a portal play available every 70 seconds and the ability to 1v1 just about any class in the game is balanced? You can even CC and condi burst considerably well (considering the state of the class in other parts of the game) without talking of heal with well and invuln your teammates for guaranteed heal cast. I have to say the class is a bit crazy at the moment.

Problem with nerfing CS is that if you do that in the way that all the PvP folks want, chrono instantly becomes garbage in PvE.

Speaking purely from a utilitarian standpoint, PvP folks are going to have to deal with it until Anet comes up with an amenable solution that doesn’t dumpster chrono in PvE. Lets be honest here, while the PvP folks whine loudly, it actually only affects a grand total of ~12 pros and maybe a hundred or so serious PvPers. In the grand scheme of things, nobody cares. It’s not like the PvP balance problems are actually driving away a measurable amount of people, it’s too small to even remotely matter.

It wont affect the game much but unless i understood wrong, people think mes doesnt need a nerf. A nerf to continuum cd and portal cd would not make mes garbage in pve.

I mean this is coming from a mesmer main, been playing it for ages, i should be able to tell whether or not the class im playing is too good in the current meta, others should be, too. Of course there will always be the people that QQ about mesmer but at the moment theres a genuine reason to. Is there a single person that thinks that a class with a moa every 60 ish seconds or so, have a portal play available every 70 seconds and the ability to 1v1 just about any class in the game is balanced? You can even CC and condi burst considerably well (considering the state of the class in other parts of the game) without talking of heal with well and invuln your teammates for guaranteed heal cast. I have to say the class is a bit crazy at the moment.

But honestly guys, something needs to be toned down or other classes to get buffed. The build condi mesmer could be nerfed but i would be careful with it since it could make mesmer unviable in high level play unless another build is found. Is there someone who thinks a nerf to continuum would be too big of a hit? Cuz i certainly dont, a cd nerf or no interaction with elite skills would be fine imo, then see how it is after the nerf and see if more needs to be nerfed. I think portal CD could be nerfed aswell, considering we just got a buff for alacrity.

messiah.1908:

Frostball.9108:

Mesmer is op, and was op, but not completely because of moa+portal. Even without having portal or moa (one of them) i believe mesmer wouldve been and would still be meta. I dont know about other mesmers experiences but the only 1on1 that ive felt is somewhat hard without using continuum+moa was druid and even then i could just condi burst with continuum+signet+cc and kill one, without even mentioning druid was out of meta.

I would like to see a nerf to at least continuum moa but most likely that wouldnt be enough. I think Portal is sort of like something that separates a good and experienced mesmer from others. What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal, and evidently, something needs to change. I think alot of people actually want to play mesmer a bit like other classes and to have builds that can reach the same level without portal and moa, but for those kinds of builds moa and portal would have to be unviable.

I personally dont mind being a portal+moa bot, since to me its a part of what mesmer is, what separates it from other classes. Also because i think a lot of the fun of playing mesmer is because of these 2 skills and playing around them.

condi application of memser is the poorest compare to other classes as you have to shatter and the clone to hit. thus alone make it far worst than op
every single match i watch of por players and average player the condi bomb is like 3 torment, 5 confusion in average. sure in 1v1 there is some nice 10 confusion stacks here and there.

is it op? NO
now drop moa and portal and you will see probably revenant coming back or even engi as condi player

The only being able to have 1 of each profession in a team comp in competitive games limits things like rev going condi since power rev seems to be pretty good still and i very much doubt engi will be played as condi. Mesmer is not the best at applying condis, granted, things like necro have more sustained condi application while mesmer mostly has burst in large scale fights, in 1v1s you can keep the condis up most of the time though.

Its hard to compare condi rev and condi mesmer since condi revs role is completely different and so would condi engis if it becomes meta. If condi rev is good, people would most likely run both a condi mesmer and a rev since they usually arent in the same positions in games.

I wouldnt call condi mesmer in itself “OP”, moa and portal in combination with it is what makes it that. Im just saying that condi mesmer in itself is actually decent.

apharma.3741:

Frostball.9108:

Mesmer is op, and was op, but not completely because of moa+portal. Even without having portal or moa (one of them) i believe mesmer wouldve been and would still be meta. I dont know about other mesmers experiences but the only 1on1 that ive felt is somewhat hard without using continuum+moa was druid and even then i could just condi burst with continuum+signet+cc and kill one, without even mentioning druid was out of meta.

I would like to see a nerf to at least continuum moa but most likely that wouldnt be enough. I think Portal is sort of like something that separates a good and experienced mesmer from others. What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal, and evidently, something needs to change. I think alot of people actually want to play mesmer a bit like other classes and to have builds that can reach the same level without portal and moa, but for those kinds of builds moa and portal would have to be unviable.

I personally dont mind being a portal+moa bot, since to me its a part of what mesmer is, what separates it from other classes. Also because i think a lot of the fun of playing mesmer is because of these 2 skills and playing around them.

You say “What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal” however if you didn’t have continuum split at all in chronomancer would it in your eyes depreciate enough in value to not feel OP?

Additionally do you think that any build in base Mesmer traits and weapons is competitive in “current” meta against your skill peers? I do appreciate we have just had a patch that’s shaken up reapers and scrapers so it’s not an easy question to answer.

Im really not 100% sure on this, but i think mesmer could still be in meta with continuum split removed, although i dont think it would feel very OP anymore but i could be wrong.

I dont think a mesmer build without chronomancer could be competitive at all, you cant rotate CDs enough to be good in 1v1s and i doubt you would have enough damage to get to be a roamer like mesmer used to be.

Mesmer is op, and was op, but not completely because of moa+portal. Even without having portal or moa (one of them) i believe mesmer wouldve been and would still be meta. I dont know about other mesmers experiences but the only 1on1 that ive felt is somewhat hard without using continuum+moa was druid and even then i could just condi burst with continuum+signet+cc and kill one, without even mentioning druid was out of meta.

I would like to see a nerf to at least continuum moa but most likely that wouldnt be enough. I think Portal is sort of like something that separates a good and experienced mesmer from others. What makes mesmer op at the moment is the condi mesmers capabilities combined with moa and portal, and evidently, something needs to change. I think alot of people actually want to play mesmer a bit like other classes and to have builds that can reach the same level without portal and moa, but for those kinds of builds moa and portal would have to be unviable.

I personally dont mind being a portal+moa bot, since to me its a part of what mesmer is, what separates it from other classes. Also because i think a lot of the fun of playing mesmer is because of these 2 skills and playing around them.

Well from my point of view, condi mesmer is most definitely meta.

IGN: Frostball
Play: PvP, sometimes PvE
Server: Gunnars Hold
Role: Instructor/Tester
Time: GMT+2

Lastly, i play in EU.

i kinda like this set

oh so this is why you whispered me during our game agianst tcg aswell? i thought u were a nice troll verp, nothing like this

oh i was just asking but if you dont remember aite

Murre.3548:

Hi Arenanet.

I am from SALT- Night Junior.

I just wanted to say that this really ruined my pvp competition. We didnt only play once against “Majestic Capricorns” but twice. And the games where super close.
SALT have been very active and taking part in tournaments, We have won against Orng and TCG many times, but because Majestic Capricorns was on our side of the brackets we never had the chanse to face our true rivals and compete for WTS.

I am very upset and i contacted u before the tournament started because I knew that they where sharing account but U never listened to me. I demand a fair tournament.

did u guys beat orng without me in esl?