Guild Wars 2

Why do we need a 3rd thread to talk about this?

Engineer has always been about using rotations to maximize DPS, as every other class does to one degree or another. The fact that you did not know this before doesn’t make it less true.

krzygum.4028:

Gern.2978:

krzygum.4028:

I think ninjitsu is bad because ninjas were bad ppl killing others. Making whole spec around killing others is bad, because people are good and shouldn’t kill anyone. No matter in game or in real life.

Um….what?

How do you play this game then? You know that something around 90% of the game involves “killing” things, right?

It’s not killing and you can notice this in pvp. People get “defeated” not dead. In GW1 players were killed so we got resurrection skills. Have you noticed there is no resurrection in this game? This is because we are not killing in this game, only defeating our opponents. Like batman. this is awesome and I feel better person finally playing a game where killing is not a goal. I also play healers and tanks because as a good person I should not kill anybody, no matter if this is real life or a game. I am a doctor in real life so playing healer is natural choice for me in a game.

This is why I like the change from rifle, which is an instrument of war, to staff for a thief. This weapon looks less harmful and I feel secure I won’t harm anybody with it but only disarm and defeat, but not kill.

I don’t mean to critisize how you enjoy the game, but the huge spike I drive through the hearts of the people I down says that I have killed them. Also the fact that I stab them with knives, swords, cut them with axes, burn them with fire, explode them with bombs, grenades and mortar rounds, and shoot them with pistols and rifles. None of those things are anywhere close to non-lethal.

Also, I wasn’t just talking about PvP. The stuff you kill in the open world and dungeons is most definately dead, it doesn’t even go into a downed state.

krzygum.4028:

I think ninjitsu is bad because ninjas were bad ppl killing others. Making whole spec around killing others is bad, because people are good and shouldn’t kill anyone. No matter in game or in real life.

Um….what?

How do you play this game then? You know that something around 90% of the game involves “killing” things, right?

Since when are thieves Ninjas? last I checked, they are called thieves, they have an ability called “steal,” they can summon more thieves and it’s called “Thieves guild.” Stop acting like rifle doesn’t fit the thief because you think it doesn’t fit the Ninja motif. Thieves aren’t ninjas.

They could make steal do the reverse when you have a rifle equipped; instead of being a gap closer, it could have a minimum range of like 100, do damage and make you shadow step backwards let’s say 900-1000 distance. But only when rifle is equipped, it would go back to normal steal when you swap to dagger/dagger or whatever, but still shares the same cool down as the rifle steal.

I think all these people complaining that necro and ranger are terrible don’t actually play the game. They certainly aren’t playing the same game I am. Both those classes are fine. That’s not to say they could use some improvements, but they are no where near worthless, or even bad at all. I think these people feel that if either of these classes aren’t brokenly overpoowered (and they aren’t) then they are worthless.

Rin.1046:

Calling it now: melee staff, but 1200 range attacks through kits.

I would accept this. Although it would be more than odd throwing daggers at 1200 range, especially with pistols and shortbow only shooting 900 range.

I think getting rifle as the new weapon and melee staff as a kit makes far more sense. It even makes sense with the datamined image: weapons dont have skill icons associated with them, but kits do. I doubt it’s a skill icon for a single weapon attack, cause there would have been 4 more along with it, so it makes sense for it to be the icon for the thief staff kit.

I just wanted to thank you guys.

There has been a lot of negativity on here, some of it I have even contributed to. And I saw on reddit that there is even worse things, like people asking for some devs to get fired. In light of this, I felt it was important to give you guys some positive feedback.

Even though I don’t always agree with some of the changes you guys make, I still love this game, and I thank you guys for putting in so much hard work to make this game that brings me so much enjoyment. Even though some of the comments that people are making are over the top in their nastiness, please try to see the positive part of these comments: that you guys have created such a wonderful game, that people have developed strong emotions about it.

So that’s it. Keep up the good work guys! And thank you again!

“You’re dumb. You’re gonna die, and you’re gonna leave a dumb corpse!”

I always found this phrase to be hilarious, and so quintisentially Asuran. It makes me laugh every single time I hear it, and it’s really the only reason I made my elementalist a female Asuran. But I dont think I have heard my character say it, nor any other person’s character, since the last big patch. Did A-net remove this phrase? I really hope not.

A guardian is not a monk, and was never meant to be like a monk.

Jerus.4350:

Gern.2978:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

They’ve tried to ‘fix’ P/P something like five times now.

Has it ever been good? Even once? Or has MH Pistol pretty much always been completely worthless outside of bass-ackwards P/D builds which rely on condition application out of stealth rather than the actual MH Pistol attacks?

Yes, if outright replacing the P/P set with a superior option is what it takes for Thieves to be able to fight worth a snot at a range greater than make-out distance, then I am all for replacing P/P.

It would, after all, be replacing a set which has always underperformed drastically, rather than trying to replace a set which is already excellent.

That’s exactly what they did with the guardian’s ranged weapon. Instead of going through the tremendous effort it would take to make scepter good, they just gave guardians Longbow. Why do people think they will treat thieves differently, and why is it so bad if they give them the “dragonhunter” treatment?

But… scepter is good in the right situation. Well, actually it was better before the trait changes, but still. Large hitbox enemies in PVE it’s quite nice.

“Good in the right situation” doesn’t cut it. Scepter is mediocre in PvE, and worthless in PvP. Thief P/P isn’t much better.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

They’ve tried to ‘fix’ P/P something like five times now.

Has it ever been good? Even once? Or has MH Pistol pretty much always been completely worthless outside of bass-ackwards P/D builds which rely on condition application out of stealth rather than the actual MH Pistol attacks?

Yes, if outright replacing the P/P set with a superior option is what it takes for Thieves to be able to fight worth a snot at a range greater than make-out distance, then I am all for replacing P/P.

It would, after all, be replacing a set which has always underperformed drastically, rather than trying to replace a set which is already excellent.

That’s exactly what they did with the guardian’s ranged weapon. Instead of going through the tremendous effort it would take to make scepter good, they just gave guardians Longbow. Why do people think they will treat thieves differently, and why is it so bad if they give them the “dragonhunter” treatment?

I honestly haven’t been playing my engineer since that last “bug-fix” patch. I hate grenades without the “grenadier” trait. I waited way longer than I should have had to for for A-net to implement that QOL change, only for them to snatch it away., and I don’t like my engi without his grenades. I’ll come back when the fix “grenadier.” Until then, my Elementalist is keeping me entertained.

Coldtart.4785:

What I’m getting from the pro-rifle crew is that you want the entire first elite spec to be dedicated to replacing p/p instead of wanting p/p to be able to do its job.

While I would love to see P/P get buffed, the only way it could fulfill the role that rifle can, is if they buffed P/P’s range to 1200.

Mattmatt.4962:

Good build, it might see a few change but at least do this:

change pyromancer’s troll for persisting flames ^^
The gm you took is the worst gm ever made in the whole game while persisting flame is probably the strongest in a pve point of view

Thank you, Ill give it a try!

Purple Miku.7032:

It’s kind of hard to give advice to someone for optimizing a build if they don’t want to pick what is optimal :\

You should be using elemental contingency in arcane, pyromancer’s training and persisting flames in fire, tempest defense for any boss that can be cced, and in any downscaled dungeon you should almost all of the time be using water specialization over arcane.

Also camping D/D is really bad. You should be swapping to different sets depending on the dungeon encounters, not staying with the same thing 24-7. Same goes for traits/utilities/food.

Yeah, I’ve been experimenting with “power overwhelming” due to how powerful burning is right now. Ill try out “pyromancer’s Training” and see if I do more damage, thank you.

I do swap weapons when I have to. I keep all the Ele weapons in my bags for those times I ever need them. I come from playing a thief in dungeons, so I know that sometimes you gotta use other weapons. It’s just that I very much prefer D/D, and so I play it whenever I can, and I was wondering if anyone on here had advice for how to optimize it. I also keep all kinds of different food in my bags.

I am curious as to why you say Water over Arcane for lower level dungeons? They are very easy, and I have never felt the need for the extra healing.

Thank you both for the advice!

Neko.9021:

Run Dagger/Focus! OH Dagger has much less utility than Focus. But Dagger/Focus lets you use the MH Dagger’s kit with a lot of cool defensive utility from Focus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MY4RinsRx3c

I didn’t ask for a good weapon set similar to d/d. I know that scepter/dagger and dagger/focus are better than d/d for dungeons. But I don’t care about maximizing the ele’s damage or utility, I want to maximize the Dagger/Dagger Ele’s damage and utility.

In any case. I have been running this build to great success:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vFAQJAoYhcMoshNNw6B0RMIAYRAIU+AkL5FIFUvh2wnE-TFSBABjqCBlqvYmSwr2fU+1xJAAPdAIqFAgHAAA-w

I only use the two pieces of celestial gear in high level fractals. In lower level fractals I swap them out for zerker gear. My rotation is the standard d/d rotation.

Name.9128:

VentiGlondi.9830:

Just let me quickly change my underwear in the heat of battle

Well they could easily make it only possible when out of combat.

I 100% support this. We also really need a way to save builds and quickly swap between them when out of battle. Not just traits, but armor, weapons, and utilities. All with a one button.

Ehecatl.9172:

Gern.2978:

None of what you just suggested is very different form how thief is played right now.

You’re suggesting thieves have access to a working bunker/support build? I’ve never seen such a thing. Every thief seems to run the same stealth burst build with the occasional condi build.

You said nothing about a bunker support build. You said:

Ehecatl.9172:

What if the staff is a melee control weapon with some nice knockbacks and blocks? The Elite Specialization could come with a set of stances that give different defensive boons like stability, aegis, or retaliation on a pulse. Throw in a defensive trait line and you could have a high evasion melee bunker or brawler build with strong potential to be an excellent high mobility decapper.

They may not have aegis, or blocks, or retalitation. But they have some of the best mobility and evasion in game, and make one of the best “high mobility decappers” as they are right now.

Ehecatl.9172:

Or it could provide a mix of magic and melee and serve a melee support role with some AoE buffing and damaging skills that center around the caster, providing stealth, vigor, might, fury, and swiftness to nearby allies as the thief fights, suddenly giving thieves the team support they sorely lack.

I feel like you don’t dungeon on a thief very often. Thier access to stealth and vigor for the party does make them very good at group support.

Ehecatl.9172:

Or it could have a bunch of small dazes and stuns and a trait line dedicated toward interesting mechanics when you interrupt a foe, giving thieves a heavy interrupt playstyle that requires precision strikes and expert timing to deal big damage numbers on the target.

How do you honestly believe they lack any of that? Have you not looked at the trickery specialization? And they already put out some of the biggest damage numbers in the game.

Also, just because “every thief runs the same stealth burst build” doesn’t mean that’s all they have, it’s just the most popular. In PvP, I rarely use stealth. I use a Dagger/pistol full zerker build, and rely on blinds, dodging, and stuns for survivability. That is a playstile very much like what you have described.

Ehecatl.9172:

Thieves have a melee burst weapon set, true. But that isn’t the sum total of all melee weapon playstyles that the staff could bring.

What if the staff is a melee control weapon with some nice knockbacks and blocks? The Elite Specialization could come with a set of stances that give different defensive boons like stability, aegis, or retaliation on a pulse. Throw in a defensive trait line and you could have a high evasion melee bunker or brawler build with strong potential to be an excellent high mobility decapper.

Or it could provide a mix of magic and melee and serve a melee support role with some AoE buffing and damaging skills that center around the caster, providing stealth, vigor, might, fury, and swiftness to nearby allies as the thief fights, suddenly giving thieves the team support they sorely lack.

Or it could have a bunch of small dazes and stuns and a trait line dedicated toward interesting mechanics when you interrupt a foe, giving thieves a heavy interrupt playstyle that requires precision strikes and expert timing to deal big damage numbers on the target.

There are a lot of ways a new melee set would benefit the thief profession. Just because a weapon is melee doesn’t mean it plays the same.

None of what you just suggested is very different form how thief is played right now.

I have a thought.

Based on other data mining, there is some pretty good evidence that thieves will get kits with their specialization. So maybe thief will get rifle as their new weapon, and get staff as one of their new kits.

penelopehannibal.8947:

Gern.2978:

How so? From a logical point of view, it makes far more sense than staff because of all the reasons I listed originally.

This sounds to me like what you’re saying is “My point of view is above everybody else’s and only I have a logical opinion”.

I’ve already said earlier that the thief already has more ranged attacks than melee. So in my opinion, it makes more sense for thief to get staff rather than rifle.

I think you are taking this a bit too personally. I obviously wasn’t implying that my point of view is “above everyone else’s.” This is a discussion, and in discussions people are going to disagree, otherwise there is no discussion but rather just a bunch of people agreeing with each other. Someone disagreeing with another person doesn’t mean they think they are better than them, and everyone believes that their own opinions make more logical sense than other people’s.

Yes, thief has more ranged attacks, but this isn’t about sheer number of attacks; all of the thief’s ranged options are limited to 900 range. No one seriously believes that the thief is lacking in melee capability, they are the highest melee DPS in the game, possibly highest DPS overall. Their ranged DPS however, is severely lacking in both range and DPS. Shortbow puts out good DPS, but only in Melee range. It’s highest damaging ability is cluster bomb, which loses DPS the farther away you are (because it takes longer for the slow cluster bomb to land and detonate so you can shoot another one.) Really, shortbow is more of a utility weapon than anything else. Dual Pistols are generally good, but lacking in range and damage.

penelopehannibal.8947:

The term ‘clutching at straws’ is starting to spring to mind with these ‘Thief gets rifle’ threads now.

How so? From a logical point of view, it makes far more sense than staff because of all the reasons I listed originally.

Orpheal.8263:

@ OP:

Revenant has not Melee Staff, Revenant receives SUPPORT STAFF with some little Melee/Magic hybrid skills, thats a complete difference to a full melee DPS Staff that most likely the Thief will receive as the absolute TRUE martial artist of all playable classes, where something like a DPS Melee Staff belongs too. They have the acrobatic moves that you have to expect from a true martial artist that fights with quarterstaffs in melee combat like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHvvEKpkLw4

(begins around minute 1)
Thats a level of martial artistical melee staffing, that you will NEVER ever see with a Revenant, but what is absolutely realistical and fitting for a Thief Specialization called “Ascetic” as a synonym for Monk theoretically for thieves, which prefered to atone for their sins of stealing and murdering and chose as a new path for their lives to become Ascetics, living alone in temples and striving through the lands in seek of salvation by practicing martial arts.

Yes, Thief has a problem with havign no 1200 range, but thats a problem, that musn’t be solved right now with the very first set of Elite Specs. Every class will receive more Elite Specs in the future, and the Thief can still receive with the second round a new E-Spec with 1200 range, like the Longbow hopefully, or ANet could make a much better and simpler solution and fix the crappy new Trait System that has way too less build diversity and improve it by changing it to a system that provides instead of 3×3 traits + 3 fix traits instead 4×5 traits with no fix traits and puts then into one of the fitting trait lines a trait, which increases the range of Shortbows and Pistols from 900 under certain situations, like when under a buff, to 1200 like in that line, that gives us might, when using a signet, so that thieves theoretically have to use their signets to get maximum range for their sb and pistol for a while, as long might is active.
Much easier solution, that doesn’t require to implement an E-Spec for it.

And people who really think that weapon in the picture is a rifle, are absolutely blind.
Its clearly a quarterstaff and no rifle, a rifle does look completely different, has a short thick grip with a trigger at its end to shoot with it – nothing of that is in that picture.
Also the whole concept art looks like some kind of Ninja/Assassin, something like that wouldn’t ever wield rifles.

I honestly can’t also think of a good rifle gameplay for Thief that isn’t totally horribly lame, boring and absolutely Op at the same time…
If you want snipers, go play rifle warriors and kill shot as much as you want with that rune set that gives you in certain situations stealth…

anythign other than that would be absolutely OP, stealth at will, high range and super burst damage at the same time is an absolute no go and already also basically exists with longbow raangers gatling gunning out of stealth from 1200+ range every few seconds…

No one said you have to play the elite spec. If you find the sniper concept boring that’s fine, you don’t have to play it. And no, neither ranger nor warrior comes close to the kind of gameplay that a sniper type specialization would provide.

As far as the lore side of things: everyone saying that the monk type of ascetic fits thief seem to be the ones grasping at straws and trying to make a type of lore and gameplay fit on a class that it doesn’t work on at all. Just because the thief wears medium armor and fights in close quarters doesn’t make them like a monk. Monks are humble and religious, typically own no property, and care nothing for fame or fortune. All of which is the exact opposite of what a Thief is. The only similarity that a monk has with a thief, is that they are both patient, which is also the similarity they both share with a sniper. But, by becoming a sniper, a thief doesn’t have to give up stealing or seeking fame.

So, some people are now believing that thief will get melee staff as their elite spec, not rifle.

I personally think this would be a mistake

First off, Revenant already has melee staff, and it would be more than a bummer to get what is basically the same thing on thief.

Second, and more importantly, thief has plenty of melee options, some of the best melee options in game (if not the best), so they really do not need yet another melee weapon. The area where thief is severely lacking is ranged options. They are the only class in game that has no means of attacking a target beyond 900 range, and giving them rifle with 1200 range would perfectly fill that gap in thief’s abilities.

Lastly: rifle can only be used by two classes in game currently, Warrior and Engineer. Engineer rarely actually uses the rifle, other than as a ’stat-stick" and for two attacks in melee range. And warrior rifle is severely under-powered (yeah, it has a place in PvP for some burst damage, but is still mostly outmatched by longbow) so it would be very nice to see a class make use of the rifle as a primary weapon.

I am an experienced dungeoner and Fractal runner, but almost entirely on Engineer and Thief. I love both those classes, but recently I have really been getting into the elementalist.

I love Dagger/dagger, and it’s really all I want to use on my ele. I know most ele’s seem to run Staff or Scepter/focus, but I really don’t enjoy those as much. So I am wondering, how can I make it good for dungeons and Fractals? Does anyone have any good builds and videos that I can learn from?

Celwina.2598:

I can’t wait until Grenadier is fixed and brought back in early September.

That’s really what is at the heart of what has me bothered.

If it needed fixed that’s fine. I have never been a big PvP’er or WvW’er, so i never really noticed this bug, and certainly wasn’t exploiting. I was just using the same build I have always used as dungeoneer (or at least the new version of it). And when a net says: “temporarily disabled until the next scheduled release” I get mad, cause I know what that means: “We see that it needs fixed, but we have more important things to do like make some more outfits for the gem store. So we are just going to turn it off until we feel like getting around to fixing it, maybe sometime next year.”

All the people talking about how we have other viable options like bomb kit and whatnot really don’t know what they are talking about. Grenade is are main DPS kit. No other kit or weapon can even come close to the damage of Grenades, (yes, that is a problem, as I have said before: we need other viable options, but Nerfing Grenades doesn’t make those other options more viable, it just flat our nerfs our damage) and I am not talking about grenades with some multiplier or piercing glitch. Engineers are just barely accepted as good for dungeon groups, but without grenades you are going to see us outright rejected. And yes, the grenadier trait is that important, if anything just because it helps us actually land all our grenade attacks, and thus put out our full damage. No dungeon group worth their salt is going to accept any person who is incapable of putting out their full amount of damage.

Arioso.8519:

Gern.2978:

If that is true, that is bad, but I never encountered getting extra grenades.

Faster grenades= More DPS (damage Per Second)

Faster grenades is NOT equal to more DPS.

The projectile velocity is increased, but not your actual attack speed.

You still get 2 throws in per second. You get the first hit in faster, yes, which is a DPS increase strictly speaking, but it should be a nearly unnoticeable DPS difference if you’re using it at closer ranges and are good at reliably hitting targets.

If you need the speed to hit things reliably, it would seem like a massive DPS increase though.

DPS stands for “damage per second.” Faster grenades = more DPS

Also, maybe I do need the trait to more reliably hit targets, why is that bad? Obviously that has always been an issue, since the made this trait in the first place.

Arioso.8519:

Other than the fact that I deal plenty of damage using grenades without grenadier; if I were to agree with you, this indicates a much bigger problem.

If a trait to buff grenades is the one thing keeping engies viable, that means we only have one worthwhile skill. Which means, rather than complain about the nerf to grenadier, perhaps we should be asking for buffs to the alternatives. If grenades are the backbone of every good build, that’s a serious design flaw, and the other kits should be brought up to par. (I’m looking at you, bomb kit. Get some buffs already!)

The New grenadier wasn’t supposed to be a DPS increase at all, just something to make it easier to land them. They made the 50% increase that comes with the extra grenade baseline, so you don’t even need the trait for grenade DPS. That’s why it was downgraded from Grandmaster to Adept.

Anyway, since you asked, the bug was causing grenades to MULTIPLY when piercing a target. Effectively, doubling the amount of hits you got with a throw at the proper angle. 14 explosions out of grenade barrage. Normal throws got extra hits too though.

I 100% agree with you, that is why I was also very upset with the massive mordar damage (aparently the filter doesn’t like ’damage" after “mortar”….) nerf. The problem you have described about us being so dependent on one kit, and one trait has long been a problem of the Engineer, and one which we have been asking A-net to fix for a very long time. There is simply no other kit that can match the damage output of grenades, whether they are with a condition based build or a power build grenades are always the highest damage, and by a lot. And grenadier even when it is working properly does amount to a DPS increase, because faster grenades = more DPS (damage per second)

Jerus.4350:

Gern.2978:

Jerus.4350:

Gern.2978:

WHAT
THE
CRAP

Not cool Josh, not cool at all.
I am straight up angry right now.

You have completely kitten the engineer for every mode of the game.

By temporarily disabling a bugged trait until it can be fixed. Dude, learn to play the freakin game and stop relying on overpowered abilities. First endless complaints over Mortar getting balanced, now because you can’t use a trait that’s clearly working incorrectly? This community is disappointing.

What was working incorrectly?

Old Grenadier was a GM and it gave you an extra grenade. THe new one was moved to adept and supposed to just increase velocity of the grenades (land at your target faster) and have the blast radius increased. However, what it was doing was giving you extra grenades. In my testing it wasn’t even just 1 though, just on a normal grenade toss I saw 5, now it wasn’t a very long test just enough to see if people were right saying it got extra grenades, but it was clearly working incorrectly. I’ve heard some claim they were getting double the nades they should, so it’s no surprise that people were claiming instant kills with Grenade Barrage. But, even just 1 extra grenade means we were getting an extra 33% damage, 2 nades 66%, and that’s just not what it was supposed to be.

Nades without this trait are still good, with what the trait is supposed to be it should make them more reliable in PVP or ranging in general, but it wasn’t supposed to give any sort of damage increase, just a quality of life trait. Much like Short Fuse doesn’t make bombs suddenly amazing, it just makes them more friendly to use.

If that is true, that is bad, but I never encountered getting extra grenades.

Faster grenades= More DPS (damage Per Second)

WhiteCrow.5310:

Really? So you’re saying Engineers are worthless without an objectively bugged trait that is clearly ruining some aspects of the game? This very thread is an insult to competent Engineer players.

I still don’t know what was bugged about it, the dev post never clarified. Are they referring to how overpowered Grenade barrage was? How did grenadier cause that?

Engineer is my favorite class, it always has been, and grenades have always been the backbone of our DPS and the recent major change to traits only made it more so. And the “grenadier” trait was the most important of those traits. Go hit stuff with grenades now, our DPS is much lower.

Guess I’ll have to play Thief until they give back out main trait, which will be sometime after HoT comes out probably.

Jerus.4350:

Gern.2978:

WHAT
THE
CRAP

Not cool Josh, not cool at all.
I am straight up angry right now.

You have completely kitten the engineer for every mode of the game.

By temporarily disabling a bugged trait until it can be fixed. Dude, learn to play the freakin game and stop relying on overpowered abilities. First endless complaints over Mortar getting balanced, now because you can’t use a trait that’s clearly working incorrectly? This community is disappointing.

What was working incorrectly?

Grenadier is, arguably, our most important trait. Without it we are worthless in every game mode, as grenades are central to all our most effective builds.

The filter will not let me use words that accurately describe how I feel right now. I am not happy with you right now A-net, not even close to anything resembling happiness.

Phineas Poe.3018:

Gern.2978:

I cam here hoping it was just a bug for me, and that maybe I could fix it. Thanks A-net for breaking what is arguably are most important trait……….

I am very, very unhappy right now.

After Symbolic Avenger, you had to see this coming.

I don’t know what “symbolic avenger” is. I did not see this coming.

They ruined engineer for every game mode now. I am straight up kittening kittened!

WHAT
THE
CRAP

Not cool Josh, not cool at all.
I am straight up angry right now.

You have completely kitten the engineer for every mode of the game.

I cam here hoping it was just a bug for me, and that maybe I could fix it. Thanks A-net for breaking what is arguably are most important trait……….

I am very, very unhappy right now.

Well, if you are looking for a new guild, mine is recruiting and we are all still active players.

Is anyone able to actually give themselves regen by shooting mortar’s water field with the #1 attack? It never seems to give me any more regen, even if I’m standing in the water field as I’m shooting it with the #1 attack, my regen still goes away as soon as the water field does.

I am very glad that i like grenade kit so much. It seems that people who don’t like it are not having fun with the new engi.

WvW tournament.

Seriously, why are we not having it this year?

I predict (and hope) that the initial “final” boss of HoT will be corrupted Trahearne. We will kill Mordemoth in the living story later on.

I made these clips to show how much damage the mortar #1 attack deals out compared to Grenade #1 and Rifle AA, our two other ranged options. It seems to me that mortar puts out the same power damage as Rifle (or at least so close as any difference is negligible). I am only putting them here so people can view them more easily than trying to find them in the 6 pages of the “Mortar Nerf” thread. Please keep the discussion of the mortar nerf in that thread, thank you.

“Naked” stats (no traits to increase the damage of any weapon) against target dummies in the SW:
https://youtu.be/U-OZYfXrNlM?t=1m

Standard DPS build with zerker and assasins gear against mobs in the SW:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVRqEh_J4jk

The devs nerfed mortar, ensuring that engis will never be good at any range above 900, so to the devs the game is perfect now.

suprNovae.5410:

“I was never a big PvPer”. Well… that is your whole problem I guess? If you can’t invest enough time into sPvP many strong classes can seem “OP”. Sure Mesmer got a bit strong but burning and necro? Nothing to quit the game for since burn builds are not really common.

And about the amulete part. Look above. You apparently dont invest enough time to understand the system around it.
The new system even gives more diversity because you dont have to pick a trait line because of the stats. You just chose the trait line now for the traits/utilities it brings.

Oh no, I like the new trait system, I am glad they did it. I just wish that we could choose the stats for each gear slot or something so that we could still have hybrid builds. With the amulet as our only stat source, we have to go all into one type of build, like all zerker, or all rabid, etc.

As far as not many people running burning builds: I don’t think we have been playing PvP on the same game, cause that all I have run into for any class that has access to a decent amount of burning. Ever Guardian, every engineer, every ranger, every ele, they all are leaning heavily on their burns, and it hurts, a lot.

I was never a big PvP’er, but it was something fun to do casually. But between how overpowered burning is, mesmers, and necros (yes, I said necros. I know some classes can eat them, but others are completely screwed against a necro right now) it’s not fun at all. Also, I was a fan of hybrid builds, and those dont exist anymore because we still only get the stupid amulte for stats. We used to be able to mix stats between the amulet and our traits, but now that traits don’t give stats we can’t do that anymore.

It looks like I won’t be PvPing again for a long while. I just hope they implement some new dungeons, or raids, otherwise there won’t really be anything I enjoy in this game anymore.

Scolix.4879:

Genesis.8572:

There’s no pleasing some people.

Have you considered it might be different people some of us liked hobo sacks and now they are gone.

The keyword here is “some.” They went with what the majority of Engineers wanted, and I thank them for it. There is a backpiece that looks just like the hobosack if you really want that look.

Everyone keeps citing all the benefits of mortar kit.

Yeah, it’s not useless. That doesn’t change the fact that the nerf was not warranted. The #1 attack was in no way so brokenly overpowered that it required a 28% damage nerf.

Sold Out.7625:

It’s not an overstatement. I use it in that capacity all the time. And it’s hilariously easy,

Then you havent been paying attention, because you can’t use it to stack regen on yourself, or remove conditions form yourself, and the #1 attack only puts conditions on enemies it passes through.

Sold Out.7625:

Or your gunk’s ethereal field. I -wish- my rifle would have capacity to do aoe confusion on every #1.

It does. Shoot it through the gunk your mortar puts down.

Sold Out.7625:

Having the damage of bombs without the delayed explosion and clunky casts on -top- of that was a bit unfair.

It does have the delay, because it has to fly through the air to hit something. That delay is greater at 1500 range, and much easier to dodge/sidestep

Sold Out.7625:

How is it easier to hit than grenades? It actually has a higher velocity than base grenades had in the past.

That point is made moot by it’s pitiful damage. Unless you absolutely have to hit multiple targets over 900 range, or you absolutely have to hit something farther than 1000 range, then there is no reason to use the #1 attack on an enemy.

Sold Out.7625:

If you compare it to grenadier, that’s a different story. But we combine a higher projectile speed with 240 radius fields, including a chill and a blind field, which makes it a lot less risky to use. That and you don’t have the melee spread issue where grenades fly upwards in some point blank situations. Nor will you despair trying to hit something like AC spiders. It also comes with a higher attack rate simply due to the shorter aftercast, so one missed attack is less serious than one missed grenade throw. Minimal difference, but a difference.

And not enough of a difference to justify the massive damage nerf that it got.

Sold Out.7625:

So yeah. I’m not ignoring any facts. ..

Yes, you are, because you clearly didn’t watch my videos showing how it does the same amount of damage as rifle #1, while also being easier to avoid.

Mortar #1’s base damage before the nerf was the same as grenades. No one was asking for a nerf to grenade’s damage when they had 1500 range. And unlike grenades, mortar only has one power based attack. Yes, mortar #1 is a little bit faster than grenades were, but it’s not enough to make much of a difference, especially since it’s a lot more obvious of an attack. So why is this nerf justified?

Sold Out.7625:

You all are forgetting that mortar is yet to receive 10% extra damage.

Can you say for certain that it’s going to get that?

And that it’s a 100% projectile finisher. Want regen / condi removal / burn / poison up the wazoo?

Yeah, that’s a bit of an overstatement. Besides, have you actually tried to use it in this capacity? It doesn’t work nearly as well as you think it does.

Mortar is a lot easier to hit than grenades. And less risky than rifle,

Lol, what? How is it either of those things?

But hey, some people just ignore some facts in order to prove their point.

shrug

I think you might want to check yourself on this last bit.

Here you go:

https://youtu.be/U-OZYfXrNlM?t=1m
While I don’t agree with using a target dummy to prove either argument, since conditions are a major part of the DPS for mortar and grenade, I made a video of me hitting a target dummy with no stats to benefit Rifle, mortar, or grenade, since a few of you are so hung up on it.

With this video you can clearly see that mortar #1 hits as fast, and for the same amount of damage as rifle AA without the “skilled marksman” trait. It’s only advantage is that it’s 1500 range, and an AOE. It clearly does not hit as hard as grenade #1.

Casia.4281:

sigh…

your nades were getting 10% explosive powder.
2% from cripple, via mod ammo.
And about 7-8% from vul stacks.
21% more damage, because you didnt isolate traits, or focus playstyle around each strengths you traited for nades.

Look. At. The. Video. The only nade traits I had were “steel backed power” “explosive powder”, and shrapnel. All of which apply to mortar as well as grenades.

I’m getting more and more convinced you are simply trolling.