Guild Wars 2

I really hope it’s engineer.

That being said, I just saw the picture tweeted by A-net: it’s a guardian with a bow.

Turrets are not useless. Everyone keeps saying that even the healing turret is useless now and all I can think is that they are using it wrong. I use mine the same way I always have: I put it down, overcharge it and pick it back up. If I need a bigger heal, I put it down, over charge it and then detonate it in the water field. It hasn’t lost any effectiveness.

As for a full turret build, a person can no longer play the AFK turreteer where they plop down all their turrets on the middle of the point and spam 1 to win. I think this is a good thing. Now, to be good with turrets you have to play smart about where and when you place your turrets.

I don’t understand where everyone is coming from when they say that the healing turret is useless now. I use my healing turret as I always have: If I only need a little healing, I put it down, overcharge it and then pick it up. If I need a big heal I put it down, over-charge it and then detonate it to blast the water field. I haven’t seen any loss of effectiveness in my healing turret since the patch, even in SPvP.

I have not felt any loss of effectiveness with my healing turret or my crate.

OP, your changes completely reverse course, and bring us right back to the overpowered state that turrets were in before. Actually more so, since you want turrets to be able to crit, but not be critted or affected by conditions. Wouldn’t a more logical fix be to just buff their base health a bit?

I’ve done a lot of PvPing since the changes, and my turrets don’t feel any less useful.

For those upset about the changes to turrets:

Toxsa.2701:

Being a kit is superior than all your methods combined…

This^

If you are some oddball that liked the look of the hobosacks, well no fear! There is a backpiece for you! Remember the old backpiece you had an option to get just from creating an engineer? The Universal Multi-Tool pack is here to rescue you from ever looking cool! Yes with this old backpiece that no one used, you too can impress your hipster friends with how “ironic” your unpopular backpiece is!

Create a level 1 engineer today to get your Universal Mulit-Tool pack!

That’s not at all what they showed. They showed that you can only choose 3, one of which you can go 6 deep in, the other two only 5 deep. Nowhere did they say anything about keeping the 5 trait line setup.

Step back and look at what you are all arguing for: Essentially you want turret engi’s to be an easy faceroll class. Made evident by statements like this:

… It only made them far, far easier to destroy. Even assuming one picks’em up before they die, how do you expect one to “play smart” with a total of 10 skills (including autoattack, healing skill, other utility overcharges and/or toolbelt – since you can’t have both at the same time – and the elite)? There are just not enough instruments to work with….

Those are all you had as your own personal abilities with turret builds before the nerf. Most of your damage and attacks came from turrets. A turrent engi would just sit amongst thier turrets and let them do most of the work.

Manuhell.2759:

Gern.2978:

You play smart by not putting all your turrets on the same spot, but rather spread them around the point you are defending so the person you are fighting has to run around killing your turrets or eat their damage.

Cause people didn’t do that already, right?
Also, never heard of arcane concepts like “range”. Where do you expect one to put a thumper turret, outside a point? Close range turrets have to be relatively near the point, can’t be otherwise.

Yes, I do. Very few points have more than 2 access points, and they all have places where you can place that thumper turret by an access point where it is out of LOS, but will still effect an enemy that is approaching. Like I said, you have to tactically place your turrets. And yes, good turret engineers were already doing this, and they wont feel the nerf nearly as badly. bad turret engineers however, could and did just place all their turrets on point, and were still almost as effective as the "good’ turret engineers. Those bad turret engineers are the ones who will feel this nerf the most.

Manuhell.2759:

Broken because they’re supposed to stay alive to do what they’re supposed for, hah.
If it wasn’t clear – the engineer depends on his utilities, since he lacks that second weapon. Whatever they are, be it kits or whatever.
And once those turrets are gone, the engineer has a single weapon, some toolbelts and an elite at most. Not two weapons like most classes. And that makes a lot of difference.

And that is why all of our weapons have some form of CC for survival while you wait for your turret to come off cooldown. Like I have said: you have to play smart, know all of your abilities and when to use them. If all your turrets are dead, you move off point, CC your enemy and use your terrain to get out of LOS, this is a tactic all non-turret engi’s are very aware of and experienced doing. Non-turret engi’s have never been a “fight on point” class. Now turret engi’s have to play similarly.

Manuhell.2759:

I agree that they were quite braindead. But saying they now require “thought and tactics” is just idiotic. They can’t be used as turrets, because they just die too fast and an AI minion that is on cooldown almost all the time is useless, and that’s all.

They can be used as turrets, in the manner that I have just described: You place them around tactically, forcing your enemy to either run around killing your turrets while eating your damage, or eat the damage from your turrets while focusing on you. Yes, ranged is difficult to contend with as a turret engi, but it has always been difficult to deal with as a turret engi and frankly that’s fine. Every class/build should have another class/build that is it’s hard counter. Turret engi’s have always been very hard for melee builds to deal with, and fairly easy for ranged builds to deal with, and that dynamic hasn’t changed if you play your turret intelligently.

Blinds are your friend. I leveled my thief using dagger/pistol, that blind from shadow shot is very effective, plus black powder gives and AOE blind and access to stealth. Also: signet of malice is my favorite heal for thieves.

Shortbow is also really good for larger groups of mobs. It has an aoe blind (#5) and a very powerful aoe attack: cluster bomb. Just make sure you are in melee range when using cluster bomb and most importantly: Do not detonate it! It does more damage if you let it explode on it’s own, hits more targets, and if you are in melee range you can get this attack off more often.

make sure you are using gear that is all DPS. (Just power at low levels, Power, Precision, and Ferocity at higher levels) Thieves bets defends is their offense, other than that it’s all about blinds, stealth, and evades.

There is a guy in my guild who designed a build that centers around death blossom and the “uncatchable” trait. He is very effective, and it’s one of the most annoying builds you will ever fight against, lol.

dead jezebel.4359:

GummiBear.2756:

Yeah what Germ said pretty much and also putting highlvl mobs in lowlvl areas? WUT? on the contrary there is no such thing, since it is the high lvl players that get scaled down to the lvl of the area they are in, you sure it wasnt you that strayed into a highlvl map with a lowlvl character?

what i mean by high level is those points of interest brought in by episodes of the living world. hot spots on maps through out the game including low level areas that have monsters that are just too powerful for low levels to beat even when in their own zone of level

What? If you are fighting mobs from the living world, then you have entered a living world instance, and are no longer in a normal zone. Those living world instances are a part of the end game, and as such are level 80, and are not meant for leveling.

I get the feeling that you haven’t asked in zone chat for people to do zone completion with, or used the “looking for group” tool. There are always people looking for other people to do zone completion with.

I think most of them will switch to shoutbow warrior.

ronpierce.2760:

Guess what, with the new trait system … Engineers will have to go into both the power and condi line to work for both, ….

No, they wont, because there will no longer be any such thing as a condi trait line, or a power trait line, or any other trait line devoted to any stat. Stats are being removed from trait lines, and are instead being entirely placed on gear and base stats.

I don’t know what game you have been playing, but it doesn’t sound like GW2.

The thing that keeps pulling me back to this game is the community. I have never felt like any zone is dead; anytime an event pops I never have to worry about trying to solo it, because there is immediately a group of people there to kill it. I get into conversations with random people in zone chat every day. I have never felt like this game has a dead community, much less a toxic one. the forums have gotten a bit more toxic as of late, but in game it’s a completely different story. If I ask a question in zone chat, I immediately get several helpful answers and very very rarely get a troll response.

I am sorry you feel you haven’t had the same experience that I think most of us have had, but I think I can say that the vast majority of us don’t feel the way you do.

Manuhell.2759:

Saying they should “play smart” to overcome the nerf is simply idiotic, if not downright trolling.

The only way to not see them destroyed is either not using them at all or detonating them yourself. ….

You play smart by not putting all your turrets on the same spot, but rather spread them around the point you are defending so the person you are fighting has to run around killing your turrets or eat their damage. The fact that you are asking how you can not expect them to be destroyed shows how broken they were. The fact that engi’s used to expect their turrets to be up for the majority of a fight, despite placing them all on top of each other, shows how broken they were. So yes, you can now fully expect your turrets to die in a fight. But, so long as you don’t put them all on top of each other, or close enough to all be aoe’d at the same time, your opponent has to waste time running around DPSing your turrets instead of DPSing you.

Turret builds were a pretty brain dead way to play an engi before, now they require thought and tactics like other builds.

A lot of people have been asking for this for a long time. I am actually surprised they haven’t added it. I really don’t see how it’s difficult to add.

Oh no! You mean turret engi’s can no longer brainlessly plop all thier turrets down on the same spot where they can easily be AOE’d at the same time!? What ever shall they do?!

In all seriousness, turret engi’s will now have to play smarter, that is all. They will have to use terrain to their advantage to place their turrets tactically so they don’t all die at once. Or, be smart about when they put down their turrets instead of just placing all of them down at the start of a fight.

It’s not the end of the world guys, if you truly love your turret engi, you will find a way to make it work. I have faith in you guys, you are smarter than this.

A lot of people have been asking for A-net to grandfather in the traits they have already unlocked on their characters so that they don’t have to go around and re-unlock them by doing hero challenges after the new trait system is implemented.

I support such a change, but I would also, for new accounts after the changes, like to see such hero challenges and trait unlocks be account wide. Although I disagree with forcing people to go out and do open world stuff and challenges just to get the traits they need to make their characters viable, I can see how it can be fun……the first time. Anything after that is just a pointless and boring grind that you have already done several times before, but are forced to do over and over again just to make your alts work.
Take the living story for example, how many people do the entire personal and living story on every single character? Probably an extreme minority. Most of us do it on one character, and call it good.
So why not allow us to do the same for traits? Let us do the challenges once on one character, and then that trait position is unlocked on every character we make from then on.

Like the title says, since you are removing stats from trait lines (which I am glad you are, BTW) please allow us to choose our stats for each piece of gear in PvP like we can in PVE instead of forcing us to choose one amulet and that’s it. As it stands now, we can have mixed stats by picking say, a zerker amulet and tanky trait lines to get a balanced build. But, if you keep our choices limited to simply an amulet and a rune set, then we will lose any kind of ability to mix stats to achieve balanced builds, and we will be restricted to going full DPS or full tank.

I would like to see a drop down option for each gear slot where you would then choose what stats you want. Like we already do for our amulets, runes, and sigils, but this would be for each gear slot instead.

I don’t know, I think the moving of stats from trait lines to gear should make FT more viable. Now we don’t have to go deep into the lackluster Firearms and Alchemy trait lines (before you freak out with “OMG alchemy is da best you pleb!” Keep in mind I just said they are lackluster, not useless) at the cost of precision and power. We can keep all our zerker stats and get the traits that make FT’s damage viable, like “Juggernaut” and "deadly mixture. "

coglin.1867:

Gern.2978:

Eight Samurai.6840:

Gern.2978:

Decap engi’s were an abomination that needed to be killed. I am glad A-net did the right thing and destroyed them for the benefit of the rest of us.

Yes turret engi is OP and very much so I totally agree. But fixing the builds and Anet being completely lazy by making the builds unplayable anymore are two different things. They could have lessened the damage of turrets, or made it scale to the engi’s stats so they couldn’t simply go bunker are just 2 right ways to fix them. If they did want to do this nerf, then they had to at least lower the cooldowns on some of the turrets too.

Turrets never did very much damage, what made it abomination was all the knockbacks and the subsequent survivability for the engi that accompanied the turrets. What this meant was that a turret engi was near impossible to solo if played right (focused on being tanky not doing damage) but could still take and keep a point without killing the enemies that were at that point. Hence the name: “Decap engi.”

Yeah, it is really crazy how you could pull all of that survivability out of a bunker build right?

Trust me, you say “near impossible to solo” and I say “I could train a monkey to solo them”………..Most of those playing them were not particularly good at it. Most of those playing against them , were worse, in my opinion. What baffle is me is that posters complain that they have difficulty against stationary objects that they declared do no damage.

Does anyone else see the irony of a thief main player coming to the engineer subforums to bash the community and try to inflame the community?

Lol what? Thief main? I have never claimed to be someone who mains a thief. The few times I even posted in the thief sub-forums I made sure to mention that I don’t main a thief. I have been far more active in the engineer forums than any other, because the closest thing to a main I have is my engineer. I have way more hours on my engineer than any other class because it is and always will be my favorite class.

Yes, I know it is a difficult concept to grasp that an engineer player could hate turret builds, especially given the number of players who lept on the turret engineer easy-mode bandwagon. But I assure you, there are a lot more of us than you think.

ZeftheWicked.3076:

Why the new mortar sucks in my opinion?

1. It’s a kit. Where’s the bad-ssery of mounting an actual mortar?

Gone, because although it may have looked kind of cool, being completely stationary was useless. Instead we get the completely awesome “bad-ssery” of using a freaking grenade launcher!

2. self-only. Why can’t i let others use it while i jump into the fray?

Because no one is going to forgo using their abilities and the ability to dodge in order to use an underpowered stationary object.

3. Much less tactical terrain gameplay. New mortar is a kit. Only tactics here are traits/specialization choices, not using placement, terrain and teamwork to your advantage.

If you think none of those things apply to using kits, you are using kits wrong.

Removing the old useless mortar and replacing it with a grenade launcher is arguably the best thing they could have given us.

I’m not going to try very hard to get one. RNGeesus rarely smiles on me. There was the one time I got a Spark, but I’m pretty sure he meant to give it to someone else in my party.

Eight Samurai.6840:

Gern.2978:

Decap engi’s were an abomination that needed to be killed. I am glad A-net did the right thing and destroyed them for the benefit of the rest of us.

Yes turret engi is OP and very much so I totally agree. But fixing the builds and Anet being completely lazy by making the builds unplayable anymore are two different things. They could have lessened the damage of turrets, or made it scale to the engi’s stats so they couldn’t simply go bunker are just 2 right ways to fix them. If they did want to do this nerf, then they had to at least lower the cooldowns on some of the turrets too.

Turrets never did very much damage, what made it abomination was all the knockbacks and the subsequent survivability for the engi that accompanied the turrets. What this meant was that a turret engi was near impossible to solo if played right (focused on being tanky not doing damage) but could still take and keep a point without killing the enemies that were at that point. Hence the name: “Decap engi.”

Decap engi’s were an abomination that needed to be killed. I am glad A-net did the right thing and destroyed them for the benefit of the rest of us.

Eight Samurai.6840:

I wasn’t showing here how to play turret engi. What I was demonstrating that an attack that virtually deals almost no damage at close range, destroys a turret in a mere 2 seconds. I didn’t test it yet but my guess is at 1200 range, the mesmer gs auto attack will kill it in one full attack. This will also affect the (litterally) only useful engineer elite skill that probably 99% of engis use. It will essentially become an aoe stun attack that drops bandages now.

The only reason we all use it is because right now it’s the only elite we have that is very useful at all, but the crate was always pretty lackluster. Any engi worth their salt never relied on it like a crutch, and pretty much used it purely for the manner you suggest anyways: as an aoe stun.

Oh My God.8423:

Instead of a grenade “kit”, how about a grenade launcher (for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhLxR9u4o4E)

It looks way cooler indeed!

That’s essentially what mortar is being turned into.

Elfo Bianco.3786:

Last update:
Engineer – The engineer’s turrets are now affected by conditions and critical hits.

Really!?!? Engineer’s turrets are so OP in pvp (said not by me) and this is the ArenaNet’s solution!?!?
A turret = a non-living item that can be affected by conditions… and critical hits too… totally meaningless.

Ok if engineer’s turrets are OP, please fix them with more logic… otherwise let everybody to affect by conditions and critical hits walls, gates, siege weapons and every non-living items …

Why does it not make sense for a non-organic object to be effected by burning? Last I checked, wooden gates should burn, even metal turrets can burn, have you ever seen what thermite does to metal? Or even poison because you could argue that the poison is highly corrosive, especially to a metal turret. As far as confusion: well that’s magic, so you can’t use logic to explain it anyways. Blinds: turrets shoot at targets on their own, so they must have some form of visual targeting system that could be blinded. It makes perfect sense for turrets to be effected by conditions. Bleeding is the only one that really doesn’t make sense, but you could argue that they are not “bleeding” but instead are leaking oil or something.

Mireles Lore.5942:

I think the making sense ship sailed when the decision was made that offensive shouts and skills like stomp can be blocked or miss from blind.

Or grenades “missing.”

I am happy with the changes. Bomb kit needs work, and is being worked on. I really hope they remove the hobosack for it as well.

I honestly find the string of onion grenades hilarious.

There is an option to make the camera stay where you put it even when you move. You can rotate the camera to show your character’s face when you run, but this will make playing the game difficult. What games are you used to showing a character’s face all the time that aren’t side scrollers? Cause I am not familiar with any.

It’s no more info than what already existed for the mesmer elite specialization. A mesmer was shown using a shield in the HoT announcement cutscene.

For all the people saying it would be inappropriate:
That argument makes no sense given that you can take off your armor right now and you aren’t completely naked. Unless I misunderstood the OP, no one is suggesting removing undergarments, but rather just giving an option for hiding chest armor like the option that exists for shoulder armor and helmets.

As far as it being “immersion breaking:” this argument also makes no sense. Are you saying that it is physically impossible to walk around without chest armor? Are you aware that Norse berserkers were actually real people who fought with no sort of armor at all, many of whom were completely naked? Not to mention ancient Irish warriors who did fight completely naked. As far as this being in game: it fits the personality of many people and characters in game, the Norn for example fight shirtless all the time. There is also several pieces of chest armor that are little more than a couple leather straps, so we already can pretty much do this.

Once again: no one is asking for A-net to remove undergarments, just an option to hide chest armor if you want to.

I hate zergfests. And I mean hate them. When I do WvW I either solo roam, or do it in a small guild group. As such, I don’t think I would derive much enjoyment from this game mode. However, I recognize that a lot of people would really like to see it, and as such I really hope A-net implements something like it. I want to see the diverse ways to play and enjoy this game grow.

In another note, If they do add something like this, I hope they provide something for the other end of the spectrum: 3v3’s, 2v2’s, 1v1’s. And I really, really hope they add a means of dueling outside of SPvP with PvE/WvW gear.

It looks like they are working to make it more like a grenade launcher. I wouldn’t be surprised if they change the name to that as well. I will be very disappointed if they do not remove the minimum range crap.

Anyone who thinks that grenades are useful at 1500 range in any kind of PvP or WvW fight, never used grenades at 1500 range. They move so slow that it was near impossible to hit anyone at that range with them. The only thing they were useful for at that range was hitting targets on walls.

As far as dungeons, I don’t know of any dungeon fight where it is useful, much less required to be at 1500 range. There are almost none where it is even possible.

I do hope it’s not just the grenade kit and the med kit that lost the Hobosack. I want to see it gone from all kits, even the bomb kit. But, if bomb kit is the only one that still has the hobosack, I can live with it.

I support this Option.

Cero.5132:

I know I did haha!
Sure it isn´t as detailed as the other profession´s traitlines, but…
It´s all I could ever have asked for!

Explosions is finally.. EXPLOSIONS! EXPLOSIONS EVERYWHERE! Mwahahahaa!
Andandand you know, heal on explosions… hihi…
Also we can FINALLY ditch nades and use motar instead! bout time!

I fear for humanity xD

Just wanted to share some excitement here. What were you guys excited about/what did you not like at all?
Personally I found Tools a little underwhelming.

I watched the whole video with this face the entire time:

Anymras.5729:

It’ll probably happen with the release of Heart of Thorns, I think.

There’s actually a lot of talk suggesting that the new traits system will be implemented before HoT is released. And since this was presented alongside the new trait system, I would bet that the Hobosack removal will be implemented with that system.

Also, A-net. Thank you. It took you 2 years, but still, thank you. Ignore the nay-sayers, they are obviously people who will never be pleased.

All the changes, I don’t see any that I don’t like. Even the nerf to grenade kit: because of how slow they are, they were always useless at 1500 range anyways.

And OMG am I excited for the change to mortar! that thing looks so much fun!

+1 A-net. No, scratch that, +10,000,000,000. It’s been a long wait, but You guys did engi good.

OUR DAY OF SALVATION HAS ARRIVED!

I’M SO EXCITED THAT I CANNOT EXPRESS IT WITHOUT A CHILDISH USE OF CAPS-LOCK AND RAND PAUL!

…When they said that thieves had too many ways of regaining initiative, and they were reducing the amount of ways they have of regaining initiative.

That is the only significant nerf to thieves that I personally feel is being made, and it is a big one.

Thieves have pretty much no passive survivability, all of their survivability comes from their attack skills, such as black powder, the evade from pistol whip, the blind from shadow shot, etc. Reducing how often thieves can use these abilities will significantly reduce their survivability.

At the moment, I feel that thieves are in a good place. They are passively very squishy, but this is balanced out by how often they can use their abilities. If, a-net, you want to reduce how often they use their attacks, then I suggest giving a significant buff to thieve’s base armor and HP. I personally would rather you leave that alone, along with their initiative regenerating traits. But if you are dead set on nerfing thieve’s initiative regenerating abilities, then that would be the best way to balance it out.

It’s a fast paced, high risk and high gain class. Plus it looks cool. Also, there is a lot of different ways to play it that are very unique. One of my guildmates was showing me a build he came up with yesterday that centers around caltrops and dodging, he just dances around a person by dodging and death blossoming them to death; His main attack is his Dodge, what other class can have an effective build like that?

Pretty much sums up what I like about thief.

There are a lot of good things about the new system, and a few really annoying things. The biggest annoyance is that it seems right now that the new system will kill build diversity.
Still, the new system looks much better than the current system, which has a few good things, and mostly really annoying things.

“..the engineer’s Mortar elite skill will become a kit.”

Stuff just got real.

This isn’t even close to the catastrophe that a lot of people think it is, but it isn’t the huge boon that the other group thinks it is either. Thieves will be just as good as they always have been (certainly not worse) but it does seem like it kind of kills build diversity. Shadow arts and Acrobatics are pretty much going to be worthless (at least that’s how it seems right now) because it won’t be worth it to invest in them. Just as it isn’t worth the DPS loss to go 6 deep in them right now.

Sebrent.3625:

My wife just emailed this to me:

• http://www.messynessychic.com/2015/02/25/the-reindeer-riders/

This people:

• Train and ride reindeer
• Train and hunt with wolves
• Train and hunt with eagles

#awesome

You forgot to mention that their preferred weapon is a bow (it’s a shortbow, but still)

Yeah, if the game didn’t have big changes like this, people would complain about how stagnant it is (not that they don’t already).