Guild Wars 2

I would like to see separate ques for specific PvP modes.

It’s always frustrating when you get courtyard, not because it’s a bad map, it can actually be very fun. But because the build you need to be effective there is very different than a build for a traditional conquest map. So you have to waist time changing your build up on the fly, and often the timer expires before you are done. Stronghold is very similar in this respect, in that you generally need a different build to be the most effective at it.

I propose separate ques for separate game modes. One for conquest, one for Courtyard, and one for Stronghold. Then everyone gets to enjoy the modes they love most, and can always be prepared for that mode.

Crapgame.6519:

So it isn’t OP, you want the damage to be increased, you agree it can be dodged or mitigated by class abilities, LoS, friends, NPC’s, ambient creatures, dead yaks, or any number of other things I may have left off.

The issue you are raising is because it works differently than any other channeled skill, correct?

Even though the ranger gives up defense to increase the range and damage. I mean, we throw survivability out the window for that increase range and damage, agreed?

I never said it can’t be dodged, but unlike all other similar abilities (except unload) you have to dodge twice. That, along with it’s range even at 1200, make it slightly more OP than every other high damage channeled attack (except perhaps Unload) With the changes I suggested, it would still work differently than all other high damage channeled skills because of it’s range. I am not saying it needs to be identical to all other similar skills, just that it should be restricted in similar ways. I never even suggested that you need to increase it’s range to 1500 to make it viable (because that’s not true); even at 1200 range RF still has fewer ways to counter it than any other high damage channeled attack (except perhaps Unload)

Now you are making a pretty gross exaggeration. Rangers hardly give up all defenses to increase the power of RF. Like thieves, rangers form of survival is avoiding damage. Thieves do it through the use of stealth, stuns and blinds, rangers do it though their range, knock-back, stun, daze, root, cripple and stealth. None of which I am suggesting A-net nerf. I have even suggested that A-net BUFF some of these abilities.

I am not unfamiliar with rangers abilities, or how to play one. I have a ranger, as I have at least one of every class. All of which I play regularly in every game mode with a multitude of builds.

It’s been so long, my memory is fading…

I treat PU memsers in the same manner as turret engi’s: I don’t 1v1 them. You will die in almost every encounter if you try to 1v1 a PU mesmer, they are pretty much a direct counter to any melee class. The best course of action is to not waste time, let them have the point as you would a turret engi and just out rotate them. Shatter memsmers are almost as bad, but if you can dodge their mind wrack you can take em down pretty easily.

Crapgame.6519:

Dodge.

You keep saying that, ignoring what I have said concerning it: RF is the only high damage channeled attack the requires you to dodge twice to avoid the full damage (with the exception of perhaps Unload). That, coupled with the range of the ability and it’s ability to track the target mean that there are fewer ways to counter RF than any other High damage channeled attack (except maybe unload). Because in addition to all the ways you have said to mitigate RF, other high damage channeled attacks can also be mitigated by dodging only once, or simply walking outside of their attack area.

Crapgame.6519:

Class specific – I believe a couple engineers replied that you have kits to address.

How is that different than say a Guardian who can dodge or toss wall of reflection? Yes, they have to have the skill optioned to use, but that is the same for all classes. Choose skill, trait. The list has been posted several times to include the use of NPC’s, ambient creatures, dead yaks, your bestie, block mechanics, etc. It is a level playing field for all.

I don’t understand what you are saying here. I never said that engineers have a harder time against rangers, and I understand all the ways engineers have for countering RF. As I have said multiple times: this post isn’t an “OMG Rangers are too OP agains’t engineers! Nerf now pls!!!” kind of thread.

Crapgame.6519:

Also, you didn’t actually answer my question. Is rapid fire going to put someone in a downed state that isn’t in their skivvies or upscaled? The answer is no. People are making rapid fire seem like it is a magic missile that will hit you regardless of counter measures by the target. It just isn’t so.

I never said that it is. I have said multiple times that RF is not the most OP ability in the game, I have even said several times that I think it could use a damage buff with the changes I have suggested. I definitely over-exaggerated the abilities of RF in my original post, and I do regret that. But I have clearified my position in the subsiquent posts of this thread.
Of course RF will not put someone in the downed state from full HP, unless they are full zerker. But neither will even 100 blades do that, and yet everyone feels just fine with the restrictions placed on 100b, which are very similar to the restrictions I have proposed for RF.

Crapgame.6519:

Forums are to do whatever you want. My point I guess is that you could take this to the bug forum or your engineer forum. One to ask if it is a bug or state it is a bug and the other one to seek assistance or vent from your peers. I for one do not go to the engineer section when I lose to one belly aching about how OP I think they are or how I don’t like where they store some of their turrets.

This thread isn’t about engineers, so it makes no sense to post it there, and it’s obviously not a bug. I don’t even know where you are getting this. Putting this thread in either of those sub-forums is completely out of place, and would only result in the thread being moved to the ranger-sub forum anyways. This isn’t a “bellyaching” thread, it’s a thread meant to post and discuss my suggestions for changes to Rapid Fire, which is exactly what these forums are for: Discussing the game and suggesting changes to it.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

There are plenty of AoE attacks that you cannot mitigate all their damage with a single dodge. You can’t just move out of the area without taking damage. Zerk Staff Ele hurts in WvW. Big deal. What’s the difference?

I would very much like to know which abilities you are talking about, because I have never encountered any other attack that I have to dodge twice to avoid the full damage except RF and the occasional Unload. Also, the damage of ele’s is pretty irrelevant to this argument. I know there are plenty of other classes/abilities that are more OP than RF, and I have said that several times. We can talk about changes to a specific class/ability without it being the most OP ability in the game.

Crapgame.6519:

Gern.2978:

@Crapgame:
And again, the ability to dodge does not negate my point, because RF is the only high damage channeled attack in the game that requires you to dodge twice to avoid the full damage.

Maybe, but I believe we are splitting hairs if truth be told. You don’t need to dodge twice. In fact, you don’t need to dodge even once. It just depends on how you want to start the dance, er, fight. Agreed? Dodge is just the go-to mechanic of the game regardless of meta/content played.

Part of me just think this is a reaction thing. Sort of like hitting the oh-kitten button? I am setting you up here but are you saying that a Rangers rapid fire will place the opponent in a downed state if he/she gets the first strike?

I play a necro, guardian, and ranger and I’ve yet to be placed into a downed state upon any rangers initial opening strike(s). To include entangle, RaO, with RF mixed in and seeing sigil of air/fire proc. It just does not do that kind of damage to anyone not running WvW in their skivvies or upscaled.

I’ll repeat myself for the hundredth time: RF is not the most Op ability

,
We agree

but it does need some changes to it’s mechanics to bring it in line with the rest of the high damage channeled attacks in the game.

We disagree here. There are just too many mechanics in the game to mitigate its damage. Furthermore the ranger has to make some pretty interesting trait, gear, and sigil choices for it to do maximum damage + range yet leaves them pretty defenseless.

There are fewer ways to mitigate RF than any other high damage channeled attack, with perhaps the exception of Unload, because all the others can be mitigated by simply moving out of their area of attack or dodging once (whereas you have to dodge Rf twice)

Crapgame.6519:

.. I don’t think it is right or just for you to come in this particular forum and champion a change such as you suggest….

What on earth are the forums for then?

<Obligatory “this is not leaugue of legends” response.>

Seriously though. I highly doubt LoL has new content every day, there is no way that is possible.

Sebrent.3625:

Not going to touch on the math countering your earlier point about channeled abilities and rapid fire?

I disagree that “nearly every ability a ranger has needs a buff”.

Do some? Definitely.
Do “nearly all”? I think that’s a gross exaggeration.

No, I am not a mathematician. Also, your numbers don’t hurt my argument, they show that RF is only slightly less damage than unload, and I have said several times that RF should get a damage buff with the other changes I suggested.

perhaps that last part is an exaggeration. But I think that both the vehement defense of RF that you continually get from rangers, and the fact that a ranger using anything other than LB is truly a rare sight in any game format, show that rangers are severely lacking in effectiveness in their other abilities and weapons.

StickerHappy.8052:

Cmon stop this thread. LB really works well against engies, and the OP happens to be one.

Coincidence? I think not.

To be honest, its engies that need rework not rangers.

I will not disagree with you on the point that engi needs a major rework, but unlike Ranger: engi needs mostly nerfs (especially to turrets). Whereas, nearly every ability a ranger has needs a buff.

@Sebrent:

The issue, as I have said multiple times, is not builds having no counter to RF other than dodge, but that due to the short cooldown of RF compared to nearly all these abilites, coupled with the fact that you have to dodge twice to avoid the full damage of RF means that you are either going to have to eat at least one RF at some point during a fight, or that you are going to leave yourself very vulnerable to the rest of the ranger’s damage at some point of the fight. Almost no other high damage channeled attack puts this much pressure on you.

Once again, I am proposing a BUFF to RF’s damage at the expense of it losing the ability to be cast while moving, and it become an AOE attack instead of single target tracking attack. Bringing it in line with every other high damage channeled attack.

-magnet pull has the same cast time as RF, making it completely useless as a counter to RF
- Overcharged shot only has a range of 400. If the ranger is using RF at a range of 400 he is doing it wrong anyways.

Also, all those counters are also counters to all other high damage channeled attacks as well, except unlike every other high damage channeled attack: RF can be channeled while moving, tracks the target (once again, RF itself tracks, not the arrows), and has a 1200/1500 range. Yet, despite these drawbacks of all those other high damage channeled attacks, no one claims they are under-powered.

Also, once again, I am proposing a BUFF to RF’s damage at the expense of it losing the ability to be cast while moving, and it become an AOE attack instead of single target tracking attack.

Sebrent.3625:

Yep, Dodge rolls and LOS can be done by all classes. Proper positioning is one of those things that separate players of varying skill levels.

There’s quite a large amount of access to interrupts: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Interrupt

• Daze: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Daze
• Fear: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fear
• Knockdown: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knockdown
• Launch: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch
• Pull: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Pull
• Knockback: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knockback
• Stun: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Stun

Same with block: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Block

Same with Reflect: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reflect

and so on.

Please take a look at the plethora of abilities in game across all the various classes that enable you to counter rapid fire.

Also please note that a Ranger can interrupt their own Rapid Fire. For example, if you come at me with a Warrior Eviscerate, I’m going to dodge that. I don’t want that damage to land in my face.

You still aren’t understanding what I am saying. By saying “there is a plethora of abilities to counter RF,” you are suggesting that all classes/builds have access to that plethora at all times. The reality is that there are few builds that offer more than 1 or 2 extra counters to RF other than dodge, and RF has a much shorter cooldown than nearly all of those counters. LOS is not an adequate counter to rely on since you aren’t going to have access to it all the time because it’s entire reliant upon the terrain, and because you can move while channeling RF; The ranger can simply move around any obstacle while channeling RF.

@Crapgame:
And again, the ability to dodge does not negate my point, because RF is the only high damage channeled attack in the game that requires you to dodge twice to avoid the full damage.

I’ll repeat myself for the hundredth time: RF is not the most Op ability, but it does need some changes to it’s mechanics to bring it in line with the rest of the high damage channeled attacks in the game.

StickerHappy.8052:

Gern.2978:

Sebrent.3625:

Arc Lightning. It is a constant … as opposed to a 2.5s channel that can be cast every 8 to 10s at most … so 10.5 to 12.5s. It’s not interrupted by their other damage which has no telegraph and simply smacks you in the face.

It also stacks with their abundance of ways to proc on-crit.

Let’s look back at counters to Rapid Fire:

• Daze
• Stun
• LOS
• Block
• Reflect
• Dodge
• Invuln

Plenty of ways to mitigate Rapid Fire. We don’t need to add “move slightly to the side” to this list.

A buddy of mine was trying Dagger+Pistol Thief. He didn’t know what to do about Rapid Fire at first and died to it quite a bit. Then I pointed out to him that his #4 is an interrupt and it was never an issue again. Add to that that his Steal dazes and it’s even less of a problem.

Later he was trying Sword+Dagger Thief. He can still daze with steal every ~21s so roughly every other Rapid Fire and can easily LOS with intelligent use of Infiltrator’s Strike/Return.

Mesmer has daze via shatters and plenty of weapons also interrupt in one way or another.

Warrior has plenty of blocks as well as interrupts depending on their weapon sets.

… and the list goes on and on.

Complaining about Rapid Fire is like complaining about conditions when you don’t bring any condition removal.

At least it does its damage with a telegraph and over 2.5s from an interruptible channel. There are other abilities with no telegraph that do the damage instantly and from range.

I very much disagree. Yes there are ways to mitigate RF, but no build/class has access to even half of those abilities at any given time, let alone all of them at all times as everyone seems to be making it sound. In fact, given the short cooldown of RF, you are realistically only going to be able to counter the first RF, you then have to eat the second or dodge twice to avoid it, which then leave you having to eat all the rest of the ranger’s damage.

No class has access to dodge and LOS? What are you smoking?

Read all of what I wrote. I said: “…no build/class has access to even half of those abilities at any given time, let alone all of them at all times…”
No class has access to all these abilities at all times, and dodge is not the most effective counter to RF since you have to dodge twice in order to avoid all the RF damage.

Another point: all this vehement defense of RF in it’s current state should worry all ranger players, as RF has clearly become a crutch for the class. It needs major work to nearly all other abilities to make them more effective so the class can move away from LB as the only viable weapon for the class.

Sebrent.3625:

Arc Lightning. It is a constant … as opposed to a 2.5s channel that can be cast every 8 to 10s at most … so 10.5 to 12.5s. It’s not interrupted by their other damage which has no telegraph and simply smacks you in the face.

It also stacks with their abundance of ways to proc on-crit.

Let’s look back at counters to Rapid Fire:

• Daze
• Stun
• LOS
• Block
• Reflect
• Dodge
• Invuln

Plenty of ways to mitigate Rapid Fire. We don’t need to add “move slightly to the side” to this list.

A buddy of mine was trying Dagger+Pistol Thief. He didn’t know what to do about Rapid Fire at first and died to it quite a bit. Then I pointed out to him that his #4 is an interrupt and it was never an issue again. Add to that that his Steal dazes and it’s even less of a problem.

Later he was trying Sword+Dagger Thief. He can still daze with steal every ~21s so roughly every other Rapid Fire and can easily LOS with intelligent use of Infiltrator’s Strike/Return.

Mesmer has daze via shatters and plenty of weapons also interrupt in one way or another.

Warrior has plenty of blocks as well as interrupts depending on their weapon sets.

… and the list goes on and on.

Complaining about Rapid Fire is like complaining about conditions when you don’t bring any condition removal.

At least it does its damage with a telegraph and over 2.5s from an interruptible channel. There are other abilities with no telegraph that do the damage instantly and from range.

I very much disagree. Yes there are ways to mitigate RF, but no build/class has access to even half of those abilities at any given time, let alone all of them at all times as everyone seems to be making it sound. In fact, given the short cooldown of RF, you are realistically only going to be able to counter the first RF, you then have to eat the second or dodge twice to avoid it, which then leave you having to eat all the rest of the ranger’s damage.

Im not saying that RF is the most OP ability in the game, only that it needs changes to it’s mechanics, and a damage buff, in order to balance it out with other high damage channeled attacks.

Sebrent.3625:

@Gern:
Fight a good scepter+X Elementalist. Channeled air hurts. It hurts even more given their traits and sigils have it constantly proccing nastiness on you. Then add to that they can cast Lightning Strike every 5s without interrupting it and it really hurts. It also can’t be reflected. Sure, it doesn’t hurt as much as a single Rapid Fire, but it just stays on you continuously while they hit you with other things uninterrupted.

@Manekk:
Lol, aye.

That’s not really relevant here. Just because there are other abilities that may or may not be overpowered, doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t work on RF or we can’t suggest changes to other abilities. Also this fact: “Sure, it doesn’t hurt as much as a single Rapid Fire..” kind of negates your point. LS is neither a channeled ability nor hits as hard as RF. You will have to refresh me on what channeled air is, I am not familiar with ele’s abilities too much.

Sebrent.3625:

….Now you’ve added “move” to the already sizeable list of ways to counter rapid fire.

Yes, which brings it in line with every other channeled, high damage attack. Currently, you can counter 100b, blurred frenzy, etc., in all the same ways as RF, except that with all those other abilities you only need to dodge once and you can also simply move out of them. Yet, those abilities are still viable in PvP, you just have to get some sort of stun/immobilize off first. You still wont likely get the full attack off, but that is why these attacks are such high damage, and why RF should get a damage buff if the changes I suggested were implemented.
If my suggested changes were implemented, it would make RF just like the other high damage channeled attacks. Except that unlike the others, it can be used at 1500 range. Maybe they should also increase the knockback range of “Point Blank Shot” as well.

Sebrent.3625:

There are plenty of other skills in the game that track just the same but can’t be reflected. Many are also channeled and allow the user to move while channeling them as well.

Like what? I know of none that are damaging attacks, let alone damaging attacks that are high damage like 100b.

50k HP? I wanna know what voodoo magic these warriors are using to get that much HP, let alone do as much damage as you claim while having so much HP.

Also, what warrior is using GS/Bow? That is not a build I am familiar with, nor would it be as OP as you claim it is; Bow and GS don’t synergize well enough to be very OP

I’m not trying to be insulting OP, but it’s hard to take your point seriously when it’s filled with gross exaggeration.

When you need a somewhat complex team based strategy to counter one build, then that build is ridiculously overpowered and needs to be dealt with by the Devs.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Killshot Sniper is far far far worse burst than rapid fire when fully traited into damage. I don’t get why people don’t complain about it more often. Probably because it isn’t seen all that much comparatively.

Go tell that to the warrior community. There are a couple threads in that sub-forum about how terrible the rifle is. If you tell most warriors that a warrior rifle is as good or better than a LB ranger, they will laugh at you and tell you how dumb you are. I am most certainly not agreeing with those people, only pointing out that it’s easy to perceive an ability on a class you play most as underpowered or even worthless, when that may not be the reality.

I am not, nor have I ever suggested that A-net nerf RF. I have, in fact, said several times that they should buff it’s damage. What I am suggesting is that they alter the mechanics of the ability: remove the ability to channel RF while moving, remove the ability of RF to track the target (I’m not saying the arrows track the target, RF tracks the target. Go fire at a moving target and you will see what I mean) and instead make RF an AOE attack that covers the area where the target is/was when RF was cast with a radius equal to the cleave radius of 100b, blurred frenzy, and pistol whip. Those changes would bring RF in line with other channeled high damage attacks without causing the ranger to lose any DPS.

Astralporing.1957:

Gern.2978:

Astralporing.1957:

…The main problem is, that it already exists, in the way of custom arenas….

Have you ever made a custom arena? It costs 2gold per day. This current answer they have for dueling is highly impractical.

It is. Yet, as you can see, “duelists” do not ask to make them more practical (for example to create 1v1 arenas and arena modes made specifically for duels). Instead, they completely ignore the Mists (where all PvP takes place) and insist on placing dueling in PvE. Where it doesn’t fit.

Also, in the post above by Neox you can see exactly what i was talking about – no interest in any designated duel arenas anywhere. There’s no point in ever bringing the places like the Bane up, because it’s not a solution most of duelists seem interested in.

Don’t give the loud minority so much credit. Most people in this game, “duelists” or “anti-duelists,” are pretty level headed.
I am very much a “duelist.” I love that game mode in every game that I have played which has incorporated it. But, i understand and agree with the complaints of those who are against it, and thus I am an advocate of the proposition that there be specific areas for dueling and you cannot dual outside of them. They could even isolate them from zone chat so the non-duelers don’t get the kind of chat spam that many obnoxious duelers have a tendency to post.

Astralporing.1957:

…The main problem is, that it already exists, in the way of custom arenas….

Have you ever made a custom arena? It costs 2gold per day. This current answer they have for dueling is highly impractical.

Purple Miku.7032:

…Rifle just has a cripple and a skill that has a long windup that applies 4 vuln… The 4 vuln doesn’t rly justify casting it.

……Not trying to hurt any of your feelings just trying to spread correct information.

Except that you aren’t spreading correct information, because that skill “with a long windup that applies 4 vuln” (brutal shot) is actually a 1/2 second cast and applies 8 vuln.

NO!
Do not encourage the perpetuation of the turret engi plague. We need to kill it before it spreads further.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Gern.2978:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Rugby, Football (soccer), Gridiron, League- all escort missions. Teams of players trying to run a ball over the enemies line.

I mean, when you put it like that…

That’s real life, it’s not relevant here because you aren’t in a computer having to deal with AI’s.

Right, my bad. Purely virtual based analogy.

Counterstrike: Just a geometry exercise? You’re trying to direct bullets into your opponents head before they direct bullets into yours.

I mean, when you put it like that…

You’re missing the point. I don’t care about anything being reduced to it’s based element, I am complaining specifically about escort missions. They are almost always terrible in every game including GW2, because AI’s are always terrible and I am concerned about the Conquest map because it’s an escort mission.

Wooden Potatoes recently addressed this in his Q&A video, and he is on board with it. I think it’s pretty silly to say “NO! I don’t want dueling ever because I don’t want to duel people!” If you don’t want to do it, then don’t do it. I understand not wanting dueling spam, but why would they ever implement such a feature without also implementing a way of blocking dueling requests? Like every other game with a dueling feature does. Also, if they made a specific area for dueling, and you can’t duel outside of that area, then that solves all the problems the “anti-duelers” complain about.

Ross Biddle.2367:

Rugby, Football (soccer), Gridiron, League- all escort missions. Teams of players trying to run a ball over the enemies line.

I mean, when you put it like that…

That’s real life, it’s not relevant here because you aren’t in a computer having to deal with AI’s.

I’ve always detested escort missions in games, frankly I’m surprised to see so many people who enjoy them.
As an avid dungeoner, I really don’t think the AI systems of this game are up to snuff to make this game mode fun. NPC’s get stuck, attack the wrong thing, and just plain behave in a manner that sucks all the fun out of whatever they are supposed to be making enjoyable.

I just watched the new ready up episode, and it looks to me like the new SPvP map: stronghold, is just an escort mission at it’s core. The whole map seems to center around getting NPC’s to the enemy keep to take down their gates and kill their lord. Given that we do have to defend them against other players and try to kill the enemy’s NPC’s, it’s not quite too bad. But still…..it’s an escort mission…….

Maybe I’m wrong, I guess we will see on Tuesday.

Purple Miku.7032:

NO. Please don’t advise people to use rifle in dungeons….

…Read in the dungeons/fractals forum or even post there if you aren’t sure what people should or should not be taking to them.

…Playing to have fun and being completely direspectful of your teammates’ time are two different things.

Class/build discrimination is what is really disrespectful. Helping people with ideas to make their preferred play-style more viable, or suggestions to A-net on how to fix broken class mechanics is far more constructive than trying to tell people to play the way other people want them to.

Lazze.9870:

Simonoly.4352:

I quite like the idea of Rapid Fire rooting you like other multi-hit skills such as Hundred Blades, Blurred Frenzy, Pistol Whip etc.

You would have to compensate it. Pistol Whip stuns, Blurred Frenzy gives distortion, 100b does more damage.

I rather like that idea.

If they made RF root the ranger in place like all the other channeled high damage skills, they could also make it strike an entire area instead of just the ranger’s target, kind of like 100b and pistol whip. I’m not saying that they make RF a ground target ability, but rather that they remove it’s ability to track the target (yeah I know a lot of you insist that it doesn’t do that, but it does, I even tested it myself) and instead make it sort of rain down arrows where the target was when RF was cast, with a cleave range similar to 100b and pistol whip. I think that would solve a lot of mechanical problems of RF without nerfing the ranger’s damage.

All of you are are answering the question by saying “don’t use rifle cause you can get better damage with other weapons.” That fact is not in question. The question was not: “What weapons are more viable than rifle?” It was: “How can warrior rifle be made viable?” If you have no constructive advice to that end, I don’t see the point in replying.

IMO, warrior rifle is not completely worthless. You are going to put out enough DPS in a dungeon that the rest of the group won’t be carrying you. However, “fierce shot” and “volley” really do need a damage buff. I don’t think the other skills need any kind of a buff; Kill shot is the hardest hitting power-damage burst skill that a warrior has available to them, Brutal shot is really only meant to apply vulnerability, not damage, Aimed shot and Rifle Butt are CC abilities not damage abilities.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Gern.2978:

>

While you talking about volley and killshot (which takes time to build up ofc) forgetting about rapid fire that is stronger than your volley.
You have burst one trick pony called killshot which is easy to dodge btw but nvm that one as i dont think were talking about pvp.

From pve perspective lb ranger will outdps you so badly that you literally have no idea;

-your damage on “1” is mediocre unlike long range shot at max range
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Long_Range_Shot
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Fierce_Shot

-you wont make up for that by volley either as rapid fire also deals 20% higher damage along with 10 stack of vul which you can apply more frequency and without wasting time for brutal shot that has lower damage than fierce (pathetic).

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Volley
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire

-you also can train ranger lb to deal extra 5% damage and 10% casttime reduction along with extra range that can be reach up to 2100 meters thx to broken mechanics ingame.

Take a look at these numbers in links. Lower base damage, even lower power scaling. Apples to oranges right? Do you really think you can outdps lb ranger with killshot?

Sorry to break it for you, but youre not even close to archieve that, with higher power its olny getting worse and worse in favor of ranger lb. And thats actually without counting their class mechanic called “pet” which does about 30% of ranger dps also bringing extra utility so your killshot and rifle lies and screams about the nonsense you talking about. I dindt even mentioned aoe barrage which also hits like a truck while applying cripple. That joke knockback and stealth are just a cherry on the top.

If you want we can give it a try and see who will kill heavy golems in spvp faster – your warrior joke rifle or my pewpew ranger. But as it stands now rifle remain as trash weapon that might as well be deleted from warrior weapon list and i doubt anyone will be missing that. No damage, no utility, nothing.

Yes, under ideal circumstances a LB ranger can easily do more damage than a rifle warrior, but all that damage is dependent on being at max range at all times, which is next to impossible in dungeons and Fractals, and you have to be able to hit with your full RF every time. A rifle warrior doesn’t have to worry about being at range at all; a rifle warrior does as much damage in melee range as it does at 1200, in fact they can do more at melee range because you can switch to axe or greatsword in between using Volley and Kill-shot.

I really don’t see why you are getting so defensive about this. The OP asked how he can make rifle warrior viable, I gave constructive advice to that end. I don’t see how that insults you at all. The argument here is not whether a LB ranger does more damage than a warrior, but weather you can make a rifle warrior viable, which you can. The reason I compared it to a LB ranger is because LB rangers are considered not the best for Dungeons and fractals, but still viable. And I was sort of saying: “Look at a ranger, they are fine in dungeons, and I can do just as good as them on my rifle warrior.”

Leo G.4501:

Gern.2978:

I apologize, I did not mean to sound hateful. I just am personally very against the idea of dual wielding 2 handed weapons, for more reasons than simply it is reminiscent of WoW warriors. I’ts honestly not a very original idea, and the people who want it are really just nostalgic about WoW. Not to mention that it would be stupid overpowered; imagine having both 100 blades and hammer #4 & #5 at the same time.

Well, you could make it not overpowered if you use mechanics to balance it. Like link it to adrenaline and allow you to temporarily dual wield them.

How would that even work? Are you suggesting they add another weapon slot just for some kind of burst skill that temporarily equips 2 two handed weapons? Or are you saying that you wouldn’t even be able to use any of your weapon skills except the auto-attack until you build up enough adrenaline? If that is the case, how is that any different than a warrior in WoW? Except that it would make a warrior in GW2 stupidly under powered.

That’s a toughy. Grenades are our highest damaging kit, without them our DPS suffers considerably, bombs are a close second. Try a static discharge build using rifle turret (for the toolbelt skill) elixer gun, and Flamethrower, Rocet boots, or throw mine. You still won’t do as much damage as any build using grenades, but that would be your best options IMO.

Scoobaniec.9561:

Rifle higher damage than longbow ranger yeah..and pigs fly.. Lb1 at max range alone makes all rifle warriors cry.

My pewpew that inst even full zerk in wvw runs with 1058 damage on the tooltip, against squishies that about 4k crit/hit. I dont think they will ever make rifle viable. Been waiting far too long for that to happen.

Common misconception about Warrior Rifle.

You are comparing apples and oranges by comparing warrior rifle #1 and Ranger LB #1. Warrior rifle’s primary damage comes from Kill shot and volley, everything about the mechanics of warrior rifle is geared towards getting off kill shot as often as possible, that’s why the auto attack gives more adrenaline when hitting foes inflicted with vulnerability, which you put on the enemy with rifle #4. The auto attack is really only for building adrenaline.

I think a lack of understanding this is why so many people think warrior rifle is so bad. They put on Berserker’s Power and just sit on all their adrenaline because they think that’s what you have to do as a damage warrior. Basically they play Rifle Warrior like they play GS warrior and then get disappointed at their damage.

I apologize, I did not mean to sound hateful. I just am personally very against the idea of dual wielding 2 handed weapons, for more reasons than simply it is reminiscent of WoW warriors. I’ts honestly not a very original idea, and the people who want it are really just nostalgic about WoW. Not to mention that it would be stupid overpowered; imagine having both 100 blades and hammer #4 & #5 at the same time.

Elegie.3620:

Hello,

Gern.2978:

I put out 25-35k damage between my Volley and Kill Shot. Both of which have very low cooldowns. I don’t see how that is terrible.

You aren’t the first person to tell me that my build is terrible, but no one really gives me a good reason as to why it is.

Actually, I find that the build is interesting and consistent. However, it has no condition removal, no stun-breakers, no mobility: if you get condi-bombed, hard-controlled or kited with someone able to avoid/block/reflect your volley or burst, then the game can become difficult.

As a personal preference, I’d pair the rifle with a GS rather than the double axe, mainly to gain mobility and GS#3 evade, in order to easily engage/disengage or achieve superior positioning during the fight (useful for the rifle). I’d thus remove the banner (since you’d be moving much more), probably in favor of “Fear Me” [EDIT: or “bolas”], and would keep the 6/2/0/0/6 template but reallocate axe traits into others (or maybe try 4/4/0/0/6).

It’s not a PvP build.

I put out 25-35k damage between my Volley and Kill Shot. Both of which have very low cooldowns. I don’t see how that is terrible.

You aren’t the first person to tell me that my build is terrible, but no one really gives me a good reason as to why it is.

With rifle you want to focus on Kill shot and volley for your damage. I use this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fJAQNAU3XjMdU7ZdH+dwJagggycBEA99pAX9asFhBA-TxBBwAY3fU+B4iAgT9nUaCyrTIwTA4sSwAAIA7cnBAkBIfMA-e

A lot people don’t like it, but I do at least as much damage as a LB power ranger, likely more, so I feel that it’s still quite viable.

If you want to play a “titan’s grip” warrior from WoW, then go play WoW.

Tskales.2804:

…I know that wings and golden pigs take priority over day one issues…

Thanks

The struggle is real.

Jim Hunter.6821:

I think it’s pretty obvious to everyone how broken engi is right now and how it is in desperate need of some nerfs to balance out the PvP scene.

I for one strongly support your cause of getting engi’s nerfed. +1 OP

I actually do believe engi’s need nerfed. I am absolutely aware of the overpowered nature of my class. I don’t know about cele engineers, but turret engineers are an abomination that A-net should destroy.

Oh, I see. Yeah, that has always kinda bothered me too. Charr in general get the shaft in terms of backpieces. They float over our backs and just generally look weird. They should make them sit a little lower on our backs to relieve these problems a bit. maybe A-net could remove hobosacks as they institute this change? One could hope.

Talkcikz.5076:

In case of emergency, may be dropped in mass in order to destroy any hopes of happiness in the eyes of all Quaggan infants.

Perfectly sums up turret engi’s in SPvP.

The turret engi is a blight upon the landscape of SPvP.

At the risk of more trolling and toxicity:

yes, there are ways to counter RF: Dodging, blocking, interrupting or reflecting. However, the very short cooldown of RF in comparison to all these abilities on nearly every class means that you will be able to counter the first RF, but the second one is much more difficult. Not to mention that you have to dodge twice in order to avoid the entire RF, depleting all your energy.

If I’ve said it once here, I’v said it a thousand times: I personally do not have a huge problem with Rangers. The scenario I originally posted was an example of what the class is capable of, and not a situation that occurs with any sort of consistency for me personally. This is not a “QQ rangers OP nerf now pls!!!!!” thread. It was meant to attempt and have a mature discussion about an imbalance in the ranger class which I personally observed. Some of you rose to that challenge and provided well rounded and level minded feedback to respectfully disagree with me. Most of you did not, and only proved that the ranger community is the most toxic community in this game.

That’s only the Charr Engineer rifle stance. He is firing from the hip, because that’s what the ability is called. Charr warrior’s don’t look like that when they shoot the rifle, they hold the rifle in a normal manner.

Although it continually gets dismissed, I have found Rifle Warrior to be very effective.

The whole goal of the Mursaat in GW1 was to stop the flameseeker prophecies from coming true, and thus prevent their race from being wiped out. Since they failed to stop the fulfillment of the prophecies, but somehow managed to survive (or at least some of them apparently did) it makes sense that they would no longer be completely hostile to the rest of Tyria and would be done with the white Mantle (if there are even any White Mantle still around) since the White Mantle were just a means to an end.

Lampshade.7569:

Well you said you hate the warrior meta but only focused on the fast hands build. When I get tired of pure axe I go pure gs and back.

If you want a reason why your build underperforms, it’s the ferocity change. 30/0/0/10/30 used to be old meta before the critical damage nerf.

Also, no solid PvE build anywhere ever will involve the sigil of intelligence.

I don’t know what the “fast hands” build is.

I still don’t understand how my build is complete garbage as you both are saying. I am consistently doing 30k damage at the end of every rotation (which is a pretty short rotation) and doing high damage with the axe auto-attack ( anywhere between 10k and 16k.) Yes, I would do more damage with the meta, but that isn’t the point.

Lampshade.7569:

I lived under the impression that 6/6/… pure axe or pure gs had both a little higher dps than old a/m? Maybe less vuln?

Also, I read that burst skills first spend adrenaline, then hit.

Even if I’m wrong though, it does not make you build any good, sorry.

They do, But I fail to see how that invalidates the entire build. I took Berserker’s Power to improve the damage to the Axe #1, not “Kill Shot” since I really don’t need “Burst Precision” due to my fairly high Critical hit chance, and especially not if I use “Sigil of Intelligence.” Yes, I could benefit from “Berserker’s Might,” but with “Sharpened Axes” I think it’s not needed nor worth the DPS loss to Axe#1.

I haven’t even gotten to do most of the living world story, because I would have to buy it, and that isn’t going to happen with it’s current cost.