It’s 2000-4000 hours to max out the abilities. Per character.
lolwut.
Your kidding right? Do you have a link? If that is the case then we can definitely expect people to migrate to the Meta – Warr/Guard/Mesmer.
I’m not going to lie we are not the majority of the players that want this. We are the strong majority of players with alts that want account bound. There’s a difference. There are much more people that just play one character or play one for WvW then players playing WvW then alts. Later tonight I will discuss the economic effects of this patch.
Hope I’m really wrong like Shonie says come Tuesday.
ANET lacks consistency. I read some of the posts here and half of them seem to come from solo players or PvEer .
Personally I think dailies shouldnt reset if they are missed. Sure your going to miss the next days laurel, but at least you’ll get one. They should do the same with monthlies as well.
There is already toolkit that fills this role.
Your not making sense. Read your previous post. We were discussing between running conditions or direct damage for bombs. I haven’t even suggested that bomb kit is a must have kit, I was explaining synergy with Direct damage.
A much better patch would have been giving WvW characters access to ascended items via badges. Same with commander tags. A better patch would have been rewarding special behaviors like escorting a dolyak in. Say 5 badges? Seems awfully fair compared to getting 10-15 badges in a single zerg vs zerg fight. All ANET had to do was unlock these abilities with badges and it would have greatly motivated people to get back to WvW. Instead we get another currency.
PvE and sPvP rank and title are account bound so why this deviation? For those that don’t know these skills are not refundable. ANET could have at least made rank and title account bound and made it that you could spend these points on whatever you wanted like badges of honor. Let’s just hope that this progression is short-term character bound and ANET actually has real content instead of fluff coming down the pipe.
Honestly would say bombs work better with conditions for these reasons:
1) All the other bombs are kitten with power and don’t scale with it
2) For bomb kit to do any significant damage you basically have to go all glass and spamming 1 with bomb kit against a zerg isn’t the smartest thing to do
I’m sorry, but you are completely off your rocker on this one. The hardest hitting direct damage attacks are bomb #1. Only grenade #1 can out damage it if all grenades land. Take into affect big old bomb is all direct damaged base it lends credit that to maximize this kits potential is either go Knights or PVT. The reason why grenades work with condition builds is because there are 3 grenades that can effect up to 15 people and
that means 3-15 chances to proc extra bleeds. Yes bomb has conditions on it, but think about them as more utility then actual conditions. The fire AoE is nice to get might with BoB, confusion kills those that attack in succession and that blind gives you and AoE mitigation with no condition damage. Same with Glue Bomb.
Also look at what bomb kit works well with. Take BoB, Magnet Pull, fire bomb. You get 3 stacks of might and a knockdown enemy that your #5 Rifle will have time to land.
The Engineer, Ranger, and Necro suffer from some annoying bugs and under powered, dumb pets/turrets and if this character bound progression is much grinder than we think we will see the meta to further revolve around Warriors, Guardians, and Mesmers.
Not to say everything is perfect…but did you just say the meta revolves around warriors? Did the recent poll they just took showed warriors to be considered the weakest profession in pvp? and more competitive spvp teams dont waste a slot on one?
What the Devs and the players in the latest state of the game were discussing was sPvP (s-small), not large scale PvP in World vs. World. In PvE and WvW they are extremely strong.
My solution would be to make kit’s a bit more specific towards condition or direct damage. For example maybe Toolkit #1 should do a bleed instead of vulnerability. It already hits like a truck direct damage-wise. Direct damage folks also use prybar to wreck faces and chances are if they are going direct damage they are using Rifle and staying ranged to begin with as soon as they bump some heads.
As far as pistols are however, it’s frustrating that they put the weapon that has everything for condition builds and nerf it into the ground. Why couldn’t they have made this into a kit?
Anyways that’s my two copper.
6months of being patient and considered has got engineer far less dev effort than other far more polished classes. I’d love to be proved wrong with the coming patch, nevertheless A-net have to overcome their own track record from the previous patches.
Elementalist released with rubbish downed skills and had them buffed within a short time, for just one example. Why are engineer downed skills still total rubbish?
The problem seems to stem from a lack of vision and focus on the devs part. The devs only seem to have ideas of what they don’t want the engineer to be:
- Oh no! Engineers have some class identity with their bunkers, that’s for other classes, so nerf smoke skills!
- Oh no! Engineers have some class identity with applying conditions effectively, that’s for other classes, so nerf explosive shot!
- Oh no! Engineers have some class identity with removing conditions, that’s for other classes, so nerf medpack4 also FT/EG combo!
- Oh no! Engineers have some class identity with stomping people, that’s for other classes, so nerf Juggernaut!
- Oh no! Engineers have some class identity with underwater grenade combat, it must be nerfed to no-identity mediocre at best!
- Oh no! Some engineers specced to support heal with Super Elixir, quick nerf SE massively and then adjust it up a completely neglible amount afterwards.
- Oh no! A few Engineers are using their class mechanic to swap kits, that’s too much class identity, quick butcher kit refinement!
- Because no-one (not even engineers) wants to engage in some kind of rehearsed synchronised routine of ‘mid-ranged’ combat, devs can pretend we are good at something that doesn’t exist. While fixing & adding none of the tools needed for actual battlefield mobility – hello JUMP—, hang, wait, eat a sandwich, read the paper, then land, —SHOT etc
What message are we getting from the devs about what they think the engineer should do, as opposed to what it cannot do?
- We can have some slight buffs to turrets, provided they are useless overall and their traits are stupid.
- We can have grenades sort of, with numerous nerfs, provided they are only dangerous at close range, or to people who are afk or stupid / NPC’s at longer ranges.
- Because our mainhand weapons are deliberately weaker by design, we can have kits like flamethrower, but because they’re a kit they not allowed to have any finishers or any range like the equivalent but superior mixed power/condi weapons like warrior longbow. Also anyone who’s ever actually played the engineer knows how suicidal their auto-attack is from retaliation. So we have a kit with traits that direct you to not swap out, but you can’t stay in kit to use the auto-attack. Genius.
Engineer that people bought into at BWE1 had tons of bugs and tons of unfinished areas, but also far more class identity and far more potential. Now we have this middle of the road mediocre mess, with very nearly just as many bugs and now masses of class defining areas watered down to average or worse. The buglist from BWE1 is still basically the same it simply hasn’t gotten a fraction of the attention it’s needed.
tl;dr It’s okay to take things away, even class defining things, as long as you give new important things to replace them to ensure a class retains an identity. This hasn’t happened so far. Also leaving the class with the most bugs, to be last for bugfixes, won’t make that class community happy
Toolkit has improved quite a bit though, so I guess that’s the devs vision, engineers use toolkit.
Spot on. This is what bother’s me the most, not only with the Engineer, but with the recent changes to WvW concerning character bound Ranks/Titles/Skills. If you want to see more info see my post here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/WvW-Titles-Rank-Skills-Multiple-Characters/first
The first bullet point is everything that you touched on.
The Engineer, Ranger, and Necro suffer from some annoying bugs and under powered, dumb pets/turrets and if this character bound progression is much grinder than we think we will see the meta to further revolve around Warriors, Guardians, and Mesmers.
More on Engineers though, this profession really suffers from an entry level build. Even as simple as P/P HGH-Kiteless/Tool is for many of us, compared to Meta they are tough and can be clumsy to use. We need to be able to grow this profession and let’s be honest, if things were great/balanced now we should be in the Meta and we are not. It seems that the Devs want us to swap between many kit’s to use those specific skills to our builds and rapidly swap between kits and that’s great, but again for many this is just too fast paced with everything going on. Yes there are people like Mask out there with so much talent, but we need more flow with kits.
I actually run GS / Staff and I get a lot more badges than I do with my FT Engineer. I think it is probably has something to do with ft missing. Then again those misses might save you haha.
They fixed the FT’s bugginess with missing. How recently have you tried the setup?
Its not fixed, but it’s better. My current build is using Wrench/Elixir Gun/Flamethrower. I’ve been using the flamethrower Rabid condition gear, but I also have a full set of exotic Berserker gear laying around as well.
Bombs do best with direct damage. Grenades do good with both
I love playing alts, and I hate it when things are account bound, I want everything to be character bound, I want all my alts to not effect the other alts. This WvW Ranks thing is a fantastic idea, it lets each character progress, and not just 1 character progressing all the other characters. I hate how daily’s, achievements, laurels, monthly are all account bound and it kitten the progression of my alts
Probably the one thing we can all say with agreement is that ANET is not consistent with account/character bound.
I actually run GS / Staff and I get a lot more badges than I do with my FT Engineer. I think it is probably has something to do with ft missing. Then again those misses might save you haha.
By biggest question is why my guardian doesn’t get faced palmed on retaliation for whirling in circles but my Engineer does with flamethrower.
Because Flame Jet hits more targets.
incorrect information. Gaurdian’s ae on Whirling Wrath has no max targets (and if it does its above 6).
Engineers Flamet jet has a cap of 3 targets.Please do not spread false information.
But to the point at hand. I would say because flame jet has no CD, your spinny attack has at best an 8 second cd, and your 5th attack is on an even longer cd. so its far and inbetween when you yank 5 people onto you and spin em to death.
Yes but the greatsword #1 on the Guardian hit’s 5 targets repeatedly and it doesn’t hurt as badly.
I do think this is disappointing, and I say this as someone who plays WvW almost exclusively on one character. (I have two level 80 toons but I prefer the ranger to the warrior.) From what I’ve seen, a lot of the skills or upgrades that will be included are pretty universal things anyway – how different is using a mortar on a thief to using a mortar on a necro? Defending a tower or escorting a yak is defending a tower or escorting a yak, no matter how you do it. So it seems odd that that experience won’t transfer over between characters as far as the skills, titles and unlocks are concerned.
There are several commanders on our server who have, or are working towards, the commander badge on multiple alts. Even if they haven’t got the badge on a particular toon, I feel comfortable following them anyway, because I know they know what they’re doing. If people have established their abilities in WvW, why should their alts be weaker instead of benefitting from that experience?
That’s why I am so baffled as to why Arena Net feels they need to implement this as character bound. Is there really no future content other than more WvW skills coming down the pipe for WvW in the next months? When is the real content like guilds in WvW coming or maybe a new map or possibly a massive WvW conquest of all continents by server? Will it get here before the next best thing and people leave?
“We want each character to have a unique experience in WvW, so World Ranks and WXP are all character-based values rather than account-based. We believe that in the long run, this will actually help incentivize players to experiment with various different ability builds for each character. "
It is good that they are trying to prevent profession stagnation and encouraging experimentation. Anything they can do to combat the “Oh, for this situation I need a Guardian” mentality is good for the game (in the long run).
I will agree with the profession stagnation and that is my first bullet point on the original post. If they do want us to play one profession, they are going to have to do a ton of work to make each profession more rounded. The best rounded/finished profession will be the meta. Engineer is supposed to be the jack of all trades and it’s played the least.
For example, I love my Engineer and it’s the most underplayed profession (Ranger might beat it), but it really lacks in a lot of areas. Take grenades against zergs. They do a lot of damage, but it lacks the mobility of it’s #1 skill which you have to spam repeatedly (wish it was a toggle) . Grenades do wonders to people on towers, but chances are a skilled commander isn’t going to take the rest of his group to a heavy reinforced tower at the gates, he’s probably going to step back and catapult it and make the enemy come to his group. Take the Flamethrower. It was meant to be the Engineers front-lining kit and all it does is miss, miss, miss – same with blowtorch. Also the way retaliation and confusion work Flaming ikittenerg = death. It should be a 1 retaliation/confusion damage on skill use, not it’s current state. What about group tanking? Guardian can heal better and self & party tank (Aegis) better than Engineer so how is Arena Net going to accomplish that?
So many things that Arena Net has to do if they want us to play one character religiously.
Are you seriously that ignorant that you can’t see the difference between what this topic is about. Its about WvW aka large Player vs. Player. Not character vs. Character. I have no problem leveling a character up from scratch, but once we are 80 the focus is now competitive play not PvE. We will see but given ANETs record of half baked goods and no public test server its easy to riled up.
I know but Arena Net could have pleased everyone. A strong majority of people who play alts in WvW want account bound. The amount of people that have alts that are going to scream bloody murder because of WvW being account bound is “almost” non-existent, at most they are indifferent like you tic.
You are picking one thing from PvE that is account-wide and applying it to your argument like somehow you`re making a point.
I can do the same…
``Why are Badges of Honor account-wide in WvW and Legendaries character-bound in PvE… because BoH`s are account-bound, so should legendaries``See, now my post makes about as much sense as yours.
Yes and you know how many people want Legendaries to be account bound? Most logically minded people. RNG sucks.
I am gonna guess this isn`t your first MMO, and that you should be aware that RPG`s are based on character-progression, not account progression.
I`m at a loss why this new generation of gamers wants everything to be account-bound.
So you have to work a little harder to progress each character individually, big deal. That`s what RPG`s are.
I`m sorry you can`t start a new character and have EVERYTHING already on it. Is this some sort of new thing you`re experiencing or is this not what happens in every MMO and RPG ever made.
People that play alts because its fun. We have already gone through so much character progression that they expect that when it comes to something that is around player skill, the player should be rewarded, not a character.
The question that I have to ask is How does making this account bound affect those that only wish to play one character? The answer is that it does not affect you one bit so why do you put up such opposition to people wanting to play at the same competitive level across all their characters? Why is there no valid reason that anyone posted on here as to why it affects them? The only thing that comes to mind is blatant selfishness.
(edited by Goloith.6349)
You are picking one thing from PvE that is account-wide and applying it to your argument like somehow you`re making a point.
I can do the same…
``Why are Badges of Honor account-wide in WvW and Legendaries character-bound in PvE… because BoH`s are account-bound, so should legendaries``See, now my post makes about as much sense as yours.
Yes and you know how many people want Legendaries to be account bound? Most logically minded people. RNG sucks.
I’m sorry, but all I’m hearing from the selfish character bound crowd is me me me me me. Seriously, whether I play just one character like the devs want or if its account bound you should face the same skill/rank level as the people who put the same time in. How does this affect you if I’m on my alt with my bonuses? It doesn’t, the only thing it messes with is your selfish egos. WvW is a reward for most people and now you are going to make it a chore just to keep up. That’s right though, you character bound advocates want less competition anyways.
WvW Rank/Skills should show peoples total dedication to WvW, how is my dedication really shown if I hold a novice title and skills because I’m spread out amongst other characters.
Player 1 levels a character to level 80 in 80 hours.
Player 2 levels 2 characters to level 40 each in 80 hours.
Players 2 “why no me have both characters at max level like player 1. Me play just as long!!!!” /rage
Me: lol
The difference is that we are talking about rank and title in WvW. People who play alternate characters do it to help the guild/server. As mentioned in the OP, WvW is about player skill and not just character skill. That’s why most people, majority of alts and selfless people believe this should be account bound.
account bound = player skill
Not sure how you get the equation account bound equal’s player skill. There are plenty of account bound achievements that take no skill at all.
And I don’t believe that everyone who plays alternate characters does it to help the guild/server. I play alternate characters, because I have fun playing alternate characters. A lot of people are altoholics and play them because it’s fun for them. There are, if you haven’t noticed, an awful lot of altoholics out there. They’re not all selfless.
I think this is a case of your projecting what you do (commendable as it is) on the masses, who just play to have fun.
In many of the upper tiers in WvW organization and the correct profession composition really matters. Here are some examples:
-Mesmers for veil/portal/timewarp. A skilled mesmer will already have a safety portal for Golems without being asked. If their doing that they aren’t getting badges and WXP. So they already suffer.
-Frontliners (Guardians/Warriors): They are not just warm bodies. If the group is really struggling through choked the can give that needed protection and CC. EMP and other guilds have done GvG and it can really explain why fights are one just based on class composition.
-Elementalists: Their ability to rain down on siege and for their party swords are incredibly effective against doors.
-Thieves are also effective (their AoE stealth with be more effective next patch) with cloaking Golems to the target.
-Rangers are ok, but their pets are great for taking people out on siege.
-Engineers are great for taking over supply camps because of their solo abilitiesSo people aren’t just warm bodies whether they are ikittenerg or not. An Engineer is a poor choice if running with a zerg. Flamethrower will get you killed, Grenades are useless if your taking a tower with a smart leader (cats/treb vs. rams). Boon Spike Engineer maybe.
I really encourage people to watch EMP and other guilds GvG. It will provide those that don’t understand group composition.
Bigger Zerg and better coverage wins.
Stop making it out like group composition is so important.
Every Zerg has plenty of every class
Actually it does play a huge success. That’s why EMP and other great guilds wipe double their numbers. EMP and AEG (can’t remember, but they are from blackgate) were doing a GvG and even though they were killing each other managed to wipe a 50 man SoR zerg that crashed the GvG because the SoR was full of junk builds and not a top-notch line-up of professions. EMP excluded Engineers and Rangers completely and only had 1 thief because they just don’t do enough in a large groups.
You seem like a hack for SoR who either cheats or trolls.
The problem with retaliation is that you can’t see it when your charging into a zerg. By biggest question is why my guardian doesn’t get faced palmed on retaliation for whirling in circles but my Engineer does with flamethrower. Honestly the should only have retaliation effect flamethrower once on skill use.
I’m sorry, but all I’m hearing from the selfish character bound crowd is me me me me me. Seriously, whether I play just one character like the devs want or if its account bound you should face the same skill/rank level as the people who put the same time in. How does this affect you if I’m on my alt with my bonuses? It doesn’t, the only thing it messes with is your selfish egos. WvW is a reward for most people and now you are going to make it a chore just to keep up. That’s right though, you character bound advocates want less competition anyways.
WvW Rank/Skills should show peoples total dedication to WvW, how is my dedication really shown if I hold a novice title and skills because I’m spread out amongst other characters.
Player 1 levels a character to level 80 in 80 hours.
Player 2 levels 2 characters to level 40 each in 80 hours.
Players 2 “why no me have both characters at max level like player 1. Me play just as long!!!!” /rage
Me: lol
The difference is that we are talking about rank and title in WvW. People who play alternate characters do it to help the guild/server. As mentioned in the OP, WvW is about player skill and not just character skill. That’s why most people, majority of alts and selfless people believe this should be account bound.
account bound = player skill
Not sure how you get the equation account bound equal’s player skill. There are plenty of account bound achievements that take no skill at all.
And I don’t believe that everyone who plays alternate characters does it to help the guild/server. I play alternate characters, because I have fun playing alternate characters. A lot of people are altoholics and play them because it’s fun for them. There are, if you haven’t noticed, an awful lot of altoholics out there. They’re not all selfless.
I think this is a case of your projecting what you do (commendable as it is) on the masses, who just play to have fun.
In many of the upper tiers in WvW organization and the correct profession composition really matters. Here are some examples:
-Mesmers for veil/portal/timewarp. A skilled mesmer will already have a safety portal for Golems without being asked. If their doing that they aren’t getting badges and WXP. So they already suffer.
-Frontliners (Guardians/Warriors): They are not just warm bodies. If the group is really struggling through choked the can give that needed protection and CC. EMP and other guilds have done GvG and it can really explain why fights are one just based on class composition.
-Elementalists: Their ability to rain down on siege and for their party swords are incredibly effective against doors.
-Thieves are also effective (their AoE stealth with be more effective next patch) with cloaking Golems to the target.
-Rangers are ok, but their pets are great for taking people out on siege.
-Engineers are great for taking over supply camps because of their solo abilities
So people aren’t just warm bodies whether they are ikittenerg or not. An Engineer is a poor choice if running with a zerg. Flamethrower will get you killed, Grenades are useless if your taking a tower with a smart leader (cats/treb vs. rams). Boon Spike Engineer maybe.
I really encourage people to watch EMP and other guilds GvG. It will provide those that don’t understand group composition.
@Vayne.
I’m on my phone so quoting that was turning into a nightmare.
Horizontal progression is progression too. It’s what GW1 had and that’s what prelaunch fans wanted from this game as well.
No one likes to be disadvantaged. Period. You are arguing for certain players to be disadvantaged just so the players that want uneven playing fields can be happy. Sorry, but I’m never going to agree with such nonsense
This is how I feel about the next upcoming patch to WvW and ANETs choice to make it character bound. All the solo character people are jumping on the character bound bandwagon because they know that if they can put others down they will have an advantage. I just can’t fatham why anyone would want such selfish people in there WvW guild.
I’m sorry, but all I’m hearing from the selfish character bound crowd is me me me me me. Seriously, whether I play just one character like the devs want or if its account bound you should face the same skill/rank level as the people who put the same time in. How does this affect you if I’m on my alt with my bonuses? It doesn’t, the only thing it messes with is your selfish egos. WvW is a reward for most people and now you are going to make it a chore just to keep up. That’s right though, you character bound advocates want less competition anyways.
WvW Rank/Skills should show peoples total dedication to WvW, how is my dedication really shown if I hold a novice title and skills because I’m spread out amongst other characters.
Player 1 levels a character to level 80 in 80 hours.
Player 2 levels 2 characters to level 40 each in 80 hours.
Players 2 “why no me have both characters at max level like player 1. Me play just as long!!!!” /rage
Me: lol
The difference is that we are talking about rank and title in WvW. People who play alternate characters do it to help the guild/server. As mentioned in the OP, WvW is about player skill and not just character skill. That’s why most people, majority of alts and selfless people believe this should be account bound.
account bound = player skill
I’m really discouraged that people honestly feel like it affects them if I have an account bound reward when it has no affect on them….
(edited by Goloith.6349)
Tbh I’m going to be much more cautious when it comes to spending $ in an MMO. I feel completely had by ANET lack of interest in their community.
I’m sorry, but all I’m hearing from the selfish character bound crowd is me me me me me. Seriously, whether I play just one character like the devs want or if its account bound you should face the same skill/rank level as the people who put the same time in. How does this affect you if I’m on my alt with my bonuses? It doesn’t, the only thing it messes with is your selfish egos. WvW is a reward for most people and now you are going to make it a chore just to keep up. That’s right though, you character bound advocates want less competition anyways.
WvW Rank/Skills should show peoples total dedication to WvW, how is my dedication really shown if I hold a novice title and skills because I’m spread out amongst other characters.
1000+ hours as an Engineer.
6000 kills in WvW
1100 Honor BadgesWhat exactly is the problem?
1000+ hours as an Engineer.
6000 kills in WvW
1100 Honor Badges
That’s the problem right there. I rolled a Mesmer and a Guardian and I was able to farm 3000 badges quite easily. My Engineer main isn’t hardly getting any badges. Flamethower misses like crazy or die to Mesmers confusion. Grenades actually suck in zerg vs. zerg fight compared to other classe’s ranged AoE as well. Mesmer is great at ranged. Guardians have great control and great AoE and can actually do something in the zerg other than lob slow grenades.
The most important part and I want to stress it is compared
Tbh we have access to a lot of great burning abilities, but what we really lack is a great AoE bleeding ability. Yes we have explosive shot, but I think that what the Engineer really needs is a bouncing shot verse a piercing shot.
Reasons IMO:
1. Bad class imbalance. Balance of spvp and pve should b separate.
2. Condition damage is a useless stat in the state it’s in.
3. All content is a dps Zerg berserker gear only zergfest.
4. Boring combat system with supposedly bugged traits in some classes.
5. Wvw is totally pointless. You pay for repairs but are mostly getting a grey item toenail as loot or a few copper. The server that has the most players in the map always wins.
6. The dungeons are absolutely pointless and the bosses can 1 shot you and since the game uses a really bad combat system it makes the dungeons even more unfun. Sorry trinity is a much better system. Trinity is actually using a team of players where all members are important. Once you learned how to run past the trash in dungeons you could farm them and get tokens and almost always bad loot from them. Dungeon rewards are horrible.
7. No dungeon finder. Yes there is Lfg but it’s not ideal and every mmo should have the same features that other more successful game has on release.
8. The cash shop is horrible and there is nothing in it most players want. If the gems are what bring in the game’s revenue put the BEST and coolest cosmetic items in the shop. If players don’t like that then they should pay a sub. Sorry nothing in life is free.
9. The game’s rewards are horrible and make the replay of the content pointless. Why level an alt for no rewards (games combat system is bad so the cause it’s fun excuse doesn’t fix that for most players).
10. DR and the worst RNG. This game is basically a casino without slot machines or blackjack tables.
11. Until recently there was no reason to be in a guild and now the only reason is to do the guild missions and join a big guild. Anet offered nothing for small guilds. Main reason why my guild left the game.
12. The game community and forums are moderated very strictly but when many threads ask questions they mostly go unanswered.
13. Nerfs nerfs nerfs nerfs to loot and classes while buffing content.
14. Anet doesn’t use it’s own forum as the first place for news about the game.
15. End game is non existent and you can try to get a precursor for a legendary but the legendary requires gifts and those gifts require farming and grinding but they nerfed all the world drops so badly that by the time you might get something besides a porous bone you’ve been tagged by DR.
And the list goes on and on.
Pretty much. ANET doesn’t understand it’s playerbase. Take the recent changes to WvW. WvW was supposed to be organized large scale PvP and now they are making everything character bound. Last time I checked there was no “I” in team. Guess ANET never heard that quote before and they are catering to the selfish 1 character players who will stop at nothing to have an advantage over people in WvW. Honestly, how the hell does it effect you whether or not I play on my Engineer, Guardian, or Mesmer? If I just play with one of the those characters like you want me to you will be facing the same buffs? So why not make it account bound?
The really messed up part about all of this is that the people that pay these developers the most are the people that play alts. We pay for that expansion slot, we pay to to progress the characters faster (because lets be honest most WvW alts don’t give a flying – duck about the storyline-hell most WvW mains don’t give a crap about it.), we pay for the best gear so that our alts are geared properaly for WvW and then after all of that you spit on us and say……….oh I’m sorry, we want you to progress one character because that is the most rewarding when we are telling you NO IT IS NOT!
ANET how about you put a polling system on your forums so people can actually see what the community wants instead of yourselves. Most cheap kitten forums all have polls and this developer forum has nothing, but that’s right no intent on hearing from your playerbase.
The reason why people with alts are upset is that it will slow them down. Why should they be punished for looking out for the team? This game was centered around working as a team and with ANETs constant mis-management has turned even the last bastion of team-play in to a self-centered solo themepark. Am I really doing my guild any favors if my passive WvW skills are have kitten Oops, best to stick to one character so I can be the most effective.
(edited by Goloith.6349)
Well I kind of like the individual ranking system for WvW. I’m a casual player and I play a ranger and I have fun even if I’m not top dps in game. You see, Anet has to appeal to the casual player and the hardcore player at the same time. I could see the appeal for account bound rankings. People who have multiple characters are justified in feeling punished, so I’m not hating on those people. But I feel tht the whole idea is to have a felling of accomplishment with one character. Would it be fare if one person was really good with a ele for example and unlocked most of the stuff with tht class but was a complete noob with a guardian and had all the same titles and unlocks. Nope. Don’t think so. I feel like this will cause people to dedicate themselves equally with each character to improve their gameplay. Like the devs said. We will all unlock everything eventually. No reason to rush. Your ment too show your accomplishments with the class u choose to play. Not in general with all classes via account bound.
You missed the point, we EARNED those unlocks so why the kitten should we be punished for something we did already. Again you play your Ranger and that is great, but for the rest of us that play multiple characters this alone is a screw job.
Ya you earned them on one character, not all of them.
Maybe they should make legendaries account-bound, maybe Commander title can be account-bound so you can just randomly put it on any ridiculous alt you decide to make up.
Hey that’s a great idea, you can earn the best title there is, and then make a level 1 alt and be a level 1 warlord of death! That makes total sense! Your enemies will fear your prowess with your level 1 alt with the greatest accomplished ranking in WvW.
Let`s see, what else can we make account-bound… why not dyes… why not everything…
Actually let`s remove every small piece of accomplishment any character can accomplish once you`ve completed it on one character.
Because it`s such a `screw job`.
Ya it`s that bad, way to blow it out of proportion…
As I have stated above, there are already so many factors driving people to play one character and you take the reward (WvW) that they do all these character driven and actions for and now make that Character bound when the entire point of WvW is teamplay, not selfish play. Oh and yes the commander tag is screw job. How somebody can invest 100g into something and now they are forced into playing that character just so they can lead is stupid. I’m sorry you are a selfish player that thinks the world revolves around you. I don’t even own a single commander tag and I can understand their plight.
Also if they want to run a level one character, people will know that this person is a proficient player instead some noob. You can’t comprehend why people who play multiple characters are being punished can you? It’s people like you with bloated egos who are ruining WvW. You’re also probably one of those idiots running with their heads cut off and not contributing to the overall cause. What do you do? Just play thief and spam heatseeker because your one track mind?
Well I kind of like the individual ranking system for WvW. I’m a casual player and I play a ranger and I have fun even if I’m not top dps in game. You see, Anet has to appeal to the casual player and the hardcore player at the same time. I could see the appeal for account bound rankings. People who have multiple characters are justified in feeling punished, so I’m not hating on those people. But I feel tht the whole idea is to have a felling of accomplishment with one character. Would it be fare if one person was really good with a ele for example and unlocked most of the stuff with tht class but was a complete noob with a guardian and had all the same titles and unlocks. Nope. Don’t think so. I feel like this will cause people to dedicate themselves equally with each character to improve their gameplay. Like the devs said. We will all unlock everything eventually. No reason to rush. Your ment too show your accomplishments with the class u choose to play. Not in general with all classes via account bound.
You missed the point, we EARNED those unlocks so why the kitten should we be punished for something we did already. Again you play one character and that is great, but for the rest of us that play multiple characters this alone is a screw job. There are also casual players that play multiple characters too and guess what, they are getting the shaft even more. Also YES it is fair that I can carry my unlocks over to my other characters because as stated above, they were earned. There is absolutely no excuse for this. The problem is that people who play one character and do not play as a team assume that people with alts want this and that is absolutely false. People with multiple characters who play WvW do not want this so why force this on them. Again people are so ignorant/self to think others want that they will stop at nothing. So what if that guardian has the perks, really your mad because putting his time in once wasn’t good enough? Yes you would love to play your lone Ranger and have an advantage over everyone who puts more time in for the team and roles various alts. How is it fair if I put in twice as much time as you in and that I’m behind you in rank because I have 3+ lvl 80’s? It’s not. A better question is how does making this account bound effect you? It doesn’t effect anything game-wise. The only thing it effects are people’s bloated egos.
(edited by Goloith.6349)
Tbh guys it won’t happen. ANET has decided that kits are the only thing we should be carrying so this hammer would probably feel quite underwhelming.
Up until recently the tone of the community was very casual. Outside of private groups speed runs were rarely seen and players accepted any professions and class roles as long as long as the player was experienced.
However, after 6 months we are finally seeing a meta-game being formed, and honestly, I don’t like the looks of it. Mesmers, guardians, and a few high-damaging classes are essentially a requirement for high-level play. Many classes simply don’t have strong roles in the meta-game and are being left in the dust.
CoF speed runs which are very popular at the moment are a prime example of this, but it seems to be branching out to other areas. I’ve witnessed this spreading to FotM, CoE, SE and other dungeons where more and more public groups are starting to seek specialized roles.
This seems to goes against what the developers intended for this game. They removed the trinity and attempted to make the game so it doesn’t require specific classes, but thus far the roles have only shifted. In comparison to GW1, instead of a monk in every group we need a mesmer for their portal and time warp. Instead of a warrior we have a guardian for projectile reflect and group buffs. As our damagers we have 100 blades warriors. We also have thieves for their stealth and decent melee damage.
But what about the other professions? Elementalists, engineers, necromancers, and rangers don’t seem to have strong roles in this meta-game. I’m not sure if this trend will shift, but it’s not a good sign to me. One of the selling points of this game to me was not being funneled into certain professions and roles, but it seems like that is starting to happen.
But if it does continue down this path of specialized groups, I hope we see the less popular classes receive updates to bring them in line with the others. I don’t want another one of my favorite professions (ranger) to be in the same state my favorite profession in GW1 (dervish) was.
This is my biggest worry in WvW and its upcoming update to make more things character bound. Think about those under utilized professions that are in need of a buff/redesign. We’re going to witness this shift the Guardian, Warrior, and Mesmer. I love my engineer and have paid enough into the ANET coffers trying to make the profession as good as the others and its not possible. Engineer works great for solo, but lacks everywhere else.
So the meta has already begun and this update will seal the deal for the WvW community.
ANET is going to be careful because the above vary well increase the amount of people in zergs.
Plenty of tears in this thread.
Seems like a good system to me.
Why should an alt character who has never stepped foot in WvW have the ultimate title and the upgrades of something another character accomplished?
Yep pretty much called out selfish players like yourself in (3.) under disincentives. How you honestly think people should be punished for being a team player. WvW has never been about character progression, that’s what PvE is about. Thank god your the sliver of a kitten -ant part of the WvW population. Good troll.
Tbh this idea is already implemented on Nerco, but if more professions have access to this the harder this is going to get. Love elixir b, to bad. Like HGH, its suicide, like the boon spike Engineer? Going to get your group killed. ANET has to tread very carefully because they may break not only the most viable build for engineers, but Guardians
You should be running sword/axe if CC is important to you.
If your a warrior you should be running PVT/Runes of the soldier with shouts. This is one of the greatest builds you can have. You have an incredible amount of tank. Then I’d run GS and Sword/Axe for immobilize and whirlwind for bag farming.
Seriously wtf is wrong with you guys. You get to have bacon with 4 legs at pets. Every class wishes they could have such savory pork within their grasp.
To da pigs!
I know that this is a necro forum, but this is a discussion that the Engineer faces as well. The most important thing to realize is: (1.) How long is my base duration? If its a short duration, duration is best. If its a really long duration duration will just get removed.
(2.) How easily can you reapply the conditions? If its almost instantly then Duration still wins. If its slow then that’s a real risk.
(3.) Non-damage conditions such as chill, cripple get removed first so that can leave themselves open to thee conditions.
To my knowledge solo or small group go burst/direct damage. Zerg go Glamour condition build
I like the character bound thing.
Spamming 2 with a Thief and getting kills won’t show a good rank if you use a Guardian.
Else it’d be misleading to see an high-rank Guardian very noob just because he farmed bads with hasted seekers on a Thief..
That’s a balancing issue, not a progression issue. The flip side to that is majority of players with alts are going to be stuck with noob titles because we’re team players.
P.S. the thief is getting a sizeable nerf this patch too. Part of the problem for them is getting used to no culling.
Really poor decision by someone at Arenanet. However, I will continue to play on all my characters. They will just progress slower than the person that plays on the same character. I like variety in my game.
As much as I’d like to think myself of the same mood, I can see myself quickly shelving my alts since any time on them would feel like time away from my main character. I wouldn’t care much about titles and all of that, but any current or new currencies for any current or future stat progression would pretty much settle the matter.
Honestly I don’t care at all about WvW rank. I think most WvW players want is actual progression instead of all this fluff. Personally I think there should be ways to get Ascended gear with badges. Honestly many people in WvW stuck it out this long with hopes of this. Another path ANET should have taken is actually rewarding the top servers/winning servers with even better loot while in WvW. Yes it got much better, but compared to PvE its still lacking. One idea that I really would like is if guilds could earn guild tokens and the guild leader could assign them out in a max of two a week per person to the guildies working the hardest….probably would actually see people dedicated to defense because they knew their guild leader appreciates it. That progression would have been much better.
So many ideas.
-Disincentives
Yes, it’s only fair to talk about this.
Most people in WvW don’t like that Commander tags are character bound because they are now limited in their role.
(A.) WvW is the ultimate large organized PvP in the game (the higher the tier, the more organized it is). These large organized collections of people rely on people stepping up and fielding the professions that are needed to carry them to victory. Now players are disincentives to step up to the plate and fill these needed roles. Need a portal or veil? Nope, can’t find a Mesmer in the group because he’s on his Guardian. Need some frontliner’s because your group is too squishy? Too bad they’re all want to keep playing their glass cannons.
(B.) Think about what is going to happen to under finished professions? This patch is focusing on buffing the Engineers turrets, but at the same time the Engineer has no entry level build and is basically going extinct because other than 1v1-2 and taking camps it’s lacking. People are going to be less inclined to play them now because why risk falling behind the Rank/Title/Skills? Why play your Ranger if they are behind on the Dev love? Basically we are going to see an increase in the amount of players leaving professions to play exclusively on one of the following professions: Guardian, Warrior, Mesmer & Thieves (they might drop too with the stealth nerf).
(C.) We’re going to start seeing the WvW player base fracture. There are a ton of people out there that play on one character or have only leveled/geared one character to 80 or gave up on the others professions, are selfish, and they will stop at nothing to give them an advantage in WvW. I can tell you now that these are pretty much the only people that want character bound. Go check their accounts Arena Net, you will have your answer. These are not the people we want in WvW and not the people that any reasonable and competitive guild would want.
-Progression
This probably deserves to be #1, but I thought it the other points did a great way of preparing this topic. Arena Net you said “It also creates a long term goal for players of multiple characters, as they can strive to rank up multiple characters to help show off their dedication to WvW.” Arena Net these players have already shown enough dedication to WvW by fielding multiple professions along with gearing them to be competitive. They have already decided that they are taking the long road to getting their other characters geared, why make it much longer? There have been numerous topics about this and the most agreed upon path(s) to progression in WvW in the most favored order: (1) Long-term account bound (2) Short-term character bound (3) Long-term character bound.
Now I know I’ve listed some complaints, but I think what would benefit players the most would actually be profession specific WvW skills. This is why the Mesmer is too good to live without in an organized group. The portals/veils/timwarps are too valuable.
So with that Arena Net I hope you decide against making this character bound, because this update around WvW Titles/Rank/Skills very well may do more harm than good.
Dear Arena Net,
I would like to discuss your upcoming update regarding WvW Titles/Rank/Skills and how it affects players with multiple characters. Below is your quote:
“The goal for this system is to ensure that players always have something to constantly work towards. We want each character to have a unique experience in WvW, so World Ranks and WXP are all character-based values rather than account-based. We believe that in the long run, this will actually help incentivize players to experiment with various different ability builds for each character. It also creates a long term goal for players of multiple characters, as they can strive to rank up multiple characters to help show off their dedication to WvW.
One of the goals our team set for ourselves with the WvW progression system was to ensure that it could be expanded in the future. In fact, we’re already working on additional abilities that we plan to release in the future, and we’ll increase the amount and variety of abilities available for purchase in future updates. We do hope you enjoy the abilities we are initially releasing with this system, and we appreciate any feedback players have so we can improve on the system in the future.
We’ll see you on the battlefield!”
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/world-vs-world-introducing-world-ranks-and-more/
The reason I want to discuss this is that I believe that there is some disconnect between the development team and the players of WvW. Arena Net, you have stated that you want to create an incentive for players to develop different ability builds for each character, but I have some questions/opinions for you.
-Profession Redesign/Balance/Testing
If you want to incentivize people to create a variety of builds, there has to be skills/talents available to create these unique builds. The problem is that in order to create this you have to have an incredible amount of redesigning/balancing/testing so that people can achieve this. For example in WvW the Engineer biggest strength is 1v1 or 1v2 and taking over supply camps, but really struggles to do comparable support in large group with the current selection of skills/traits. This is the #1 reason why players create alternative characters. If you want to play a large condition damage character, the Glamour Mesmer does an incredibly good job at it compared to the P-P/Grenade Engineer with much less work. What support tank can you create with an Engineer? There is only self-tank. The Guardian can out-tank & out-heal an Elixir/Healing Engineer in WvW, so there again that’s why these alternate characters are created. Arena Net you’re working hard enough, why make more work for yourselves?
-Incentives for One Character
Arena Net you like to use the word “incentives” a lot so let’s discuss. You want to incentives people to play the same character so you implement this upcoming update. What could be bad about this right? The problem is that there are already so many incentives out there to play just one character. Take into account that dailies are account bound so only one character can receive the daily once and if you have multiple characters there is nothing you can do about it even if you’re willing to put the extra effort in. Take into account that karma is also character bound and if there is future upgrades purchasable through karma that this will drive people to play with one character. Now we are going to have WvW Ranks/Titles character bound.
Personally I think he’s fine if he’s using medkit, that has a 15 second cd on condition removal vs elixir c which is on a 30+ cd
However I have found that with gear shield and elixir S you have enough tank that you should really be rolling with P/P instead of P/S. Blowtorch is single handedly the best burn skill in the game in my opinion. Another option would be to drop grenades and go for flamethrower for the toolbelt skill. That would really give you more control and access to the burn.
Lot of things you can run, but Burn is the heaviest hitting condition so it’s best to use. it.
Tbh I think the auto-attack should be a toggle for on/off. What really bugs me is the skills overall. I would really like to see #2 stack bleeds in intensity, not duration. Yes having a 19 second bleed is ok, but it will certainly get removed by then. I’d rather see 5 stacks of bleeds for 3 seconds. This would allow the grenade kit to be applied to other builds much more easily.
You’re asking for a bit much there, as it is already 3 stacks of a 12+30% second bleed (meaning about 15 seconds). If you had that reversed, 15 stacks of bleeding (5 per grenade) in 3 seconds, that’s a bit too much burst on a 4-5 second cooldown.
Also, grenade kit is already one of our most versatile kits, the only one easily surpassing it being tool kit. The direct damage of 2 and 4 are high enough to warrant using on CD, and the conditions from 2 and 5 are long duration, meaning that on 2 you’ll usually have stacks from multiple applications ticking away, and 5 should never fall off if an enemy stays in the fields.
What builds are grenades currently not good for?
The reason I find it really lackluster atm is that I run a P/P condition build and I would love to have grenades supplement that damage, but the only way it seems to get the most out of grenades is with the 30pt trait. The one thing you fail to realize is that the enemy will remove that long condition fairly easily and the fact that it doesn’t hit like burning makes it kinda sucky. Bleeds were designed to be stacked in intensity, not duration. Don’t get me wrong my favorite build runs on 100% condition duration (till it broke last patch), but the entire point of that was to increase intensity. Having a long intensity for 2 grenades sucks. I’m not going to drop my chance to burn on all attacks vs. a 15% chance to bleed on the small amount of times in grenades.
I just wish there was more ways to play grenades then being forced into 30points into explosives.
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