Guild Wars 2

War Mourner.5168:

I don’t know where you got this 3/4s thing from, each one has a cast time of 1/2s.
If you watch the video, it’s about 2s to run the full autochain.

Lack of coffee, that is where

@Tim, you are right, no worries – I screwed up

That said, it is hard to tell just by numbers and pure theory how it plays out… Again, and let me be perfectly clear: I do not want to butcher anything – but given that the trait will be looked at , we might as well give the best solution to the issue before it will recieve a global ICD of a second

First off, I do not want to butcher anything , I, as many others try to find the best way out of a nerf that is more than likely to come since the devs themselves stated it will be nerfed. But okay, well since math is not my forté for a game since I tend to do numbers during the day (and I do not feel like putting in more), let’s grab this one by the nuts:

Reaper’s Shroud full Auto-attack chain does indeed last 3/4 second according to the wiki. Let’s say all attacks are 3 targets (the final one is blank)

Without any changes this means:

• Life Rend: 3 stacks of Might for 5s, 3% Lifeforce
• Life Slash: 3 stacks of Might for 5s, 3% Lifeforce
• Life Reap: 3 stacks of Might for 5s, 9% Lifeforce
  So in less than a second you managed to get 9 stacks of Might for somewhat more than 14s and 15% Lifeforce ~ you will lose 4% if not traited, means you can maybe call it 11% Lifeforce… Neat, if the enemy does not attack at all, this literally means permanent sustain. Of course, that is highly situational, and you could add up Protection and whatnot but w/e
  11% of Lifeforce on a Zerker spec with say Runes of the Vampirism in PvP translates to about 1870 Lifeforce. This in a full autoattack chain. Now I do not know the exact numbers as to how much Lifeforce decreases the attacks, but it is fairly substantial for an autoattack per chain.
  And do not forget about the synergy with Blighter’s Boon, which heals you for 133*3=399HP/s (if we say that 3 stacks of might translates to one boon) – which is higher than Healing Signet, which will get nerfed (currently at 362HP/s)
  Meanwhile, you are at 9 stacks of might, while you are able to repeat this chain at least 3 times before they wear off, potentially capping at 27 potential stacks without any other traits or utilities within 4 seconds of simply Autoattacking
  Caveat to this is of course that the enemy needs to be chilled. So balanced? Maybe, I honestly cannot tell how difficult it will be to actually perma chill a target

Now let’s say it was capped at five hits per second. First for both the Might and Lifeforce

• Life Rend: 3 stacks of Might for 5s, 3% Lifeforce
• Life Slash: 2 stacks of Might for 5s, 2% Lifeforce
• Life Reap: 0 stacks of Might for 5s, 6% Lifeforce
  5 stacks of might for about 4 seconds, 11% Lifeforce, of which 4% might be lost so 7% Lifeforce. Capped might will be about 15 stacks after 4 chains (roughly four seconds). Lifeforce is about 1190 Lifeforce per second. Blighter’s Boon purely from this trait gives 266HP/s.
  Is this really this bad? Honestly, I personally do not think so, but then again, numbers are but a rough estimate of what happens during the fight.
  If no Lifeforce is lost and we purely look at losing might, we will have the previous numbers for Lifeforce, while capping 15 stacks of Might. I say, fund it

Again, I know the caveat to the story is that the enemy needs to be chilled, but I find this one of the least threatening “nerfs” than what other ICD’s can do (1 second global would literally destroy this)

People caring about the scores… Is this 2012?

War Mourner.5168:

We haven’t seen most of the classes specs yet – it’s better to er on the side of “too powerful” then adjust it from there after release, rather then releasing a useless trait and hope Anet ever buffs it to viability – a bit like what’s happened with the necro class in beta/at release, hm?

Were it up to me, sure – you need to chill the enemy (enemies) to even get the benefit anyway, so it is not like you will spam it without any thought

But it was not up to me, so I decided to make a thread discussing a trait with a lot of potential which might end up being butchered – after all, the best way to stop this from happening is to stand up and open to discussion so that good feedback can be made

As it stands, a very reasonable change was suggested by Spoj at this moment; it helps in 1v1’s and isn’t that overpowering in anything above… The scaling is important, which he kept in mind very well

spoj.9672:

The only type of ICD i would accept is one that allows 5 procs per seconds maximum (almost the same as having an ICD of 0.2 seconds). That way on a single target you can still gain 5 procs if you use fast hits (which requires effort and management of fast hit attacks). But you dont get an over abundance of might against groups for ridiculous Blighters Boon procs.

The emphasis on your story is the scaling, and likely while a simpleton as me could not come with such a solution

Considering the fast hitting attacks/skills are already far from common on the profession, this would not destroy the capability of triggering it in 1v1’s, while in bigger group fights it will indeed remove the possibility to trigger it too quickly (say with Locust’s Swarm)

Muchacho.2390:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Here’s the logic. Currently with Reaper’s Might you can just autoattack the floor and generate might, which is fairly silly.

However this is rather nice in combiniation with blighter boon and gives us something like a signet of restoration in RS.

Which is okay to me personally – Blighter’s Boon is a small heal comparable to SoR, buuuut, the Necromancer still has a Burst Heal available, while the Elementalist lacks this
Not saying it is not nice to have, but the trade-off is neglectable imho

I also agree to the 10% damage trait… Damage modifiers are really lacking on Necromancer, and for a “selfish profession”, this is a clean fix as it helps the power at all times (even at 25 might stacks)

Zetsumei.4975:

I’m just worried too many people including the devs are theorycrafting for situations with 3-5 enemies and not thinking about how we’re able to perform in a 1v1 effectively.

Valid concern, and certainly one to be looked at.

Opening up to the discussion however helps trying to find an ample solution… I am not saying I got the perfect one, hence why I want to hear people’s opinions so that we can gather good feedback. Spoj gave very good critique that the trait is already situational, and if the Chill does get toned down, you might even have a trait that was not to be feared at all

It is true that Forceful GS has no ICD as well, and there are but a handful who complain about that… Sadly, it was now the Anet devs concluding that Chillinf Force in it’s current itteration is too strong

I agree with you Spoj that it is still quite a task to keep perma chill up (and attacking in the meanwhile), and when I first saw the trait it blew my mind how simple, yet stunning such a trait could be, a trait that allowed the NecroReaper to gain lifeforce and might without critting – sadly, compensations are going to be made whether we want it or not

I think we are all still on board as to how an ICD would destroy it – I agree, it literally destroyed a Healing Skill before it was even in the game. So if anything, I want the trait to be safe from that and come to a clean solution to the issue

And yea, the Lifeforce might be the issue, but it is trying to solve the issue of the profession having terrible scaling Lifeforce generators… This trait would be a perfect solution to it

That is a neat suggestion, capping the amount of might procs per “X” seconds, but letting the Lifeforce flow

The best part about this trait competitively is that you can get Lifeforce without feeling like a dummy AA the crates/windows on Khylo, so I would certainly have peace with it

Zetsumei.4975:

I think youre being way too optimistic of things just because of how they sound on paper. I don’t need to remind you of how bad a position necro is currently in now and anet certainly dont need the necro communities help in nerfing till its not viable again.

The trait on its own might sound powerful but as a whole the class has a few glaring issues to overcome.

Yes and yes, however, it was already confirmed that this trait is going to be reworked… So why not discuss it so that it will be reworked in the benefits to the profession?

I agree that there are many other hurdles, but I did not open a thread for that

Chilling Force: Striking a chilled foe grants lifeforce and might

• Might Duration (5s)
• Life Force gain (1%)

On the livestream itself it was said that this trait was likely to recieve a nerf. My personal opinion is that it is justified, because the Might you can get from it is obscene. Yesterday in the stream, there was a small discussion as to how this trait could be changed. Important to note is that pretty much everyone agreed that the Lifeforce is needed, and pretty much everyone agreed that a global internal cooldown would ruin the trait completely.

Suggestions that have been made were:

• Cooldown per target – much more reasonable than a global cooldown
• Might Duration nerf (2-3s)

I do want to ask what the opinion is about the trait, and how you think this could be positively reworked

The Necromancer never was a profession capable of dealing with Kiting indeed… The slow nature of everything (attacks and the speed itself) makes it really easy to deal with…
However, what I think Anet wanted and what they are succeeding more at is that when an enemy is caught, it is like being caught in a spider-web… It is not impossible to escape, but once the Necromancer/Reaper’s got you, you can only fight to survive, while being in their little web

Which is a good thing, it differentiates other professions from this one… Besides, why chase that LB Ranger in an open field? Wait patiently, devour his pet companion and let them come to your web… In the end, they want you gone as well, no?

Meh, despite the “meta” being dropdead boring, it is fairly balanced…

And despite all this, viable and optimal builds are two categories, as it is not impossible to kill a D/D Celementalist with just a longbow on a Warrior (Don’t ask me how, I don’t wanna think about what happened)

In the end what is it that truly matters? Will a new meta give you a new goal? It will keep people occupied for at least 2-3 weeks copy-pasting Metabattle and discovering the new toys, but in the end imbalance will still stay (which is normal in a system like this) and you will find, because you are not occupied or incentified to get better, that you are getting annoyed/bored again

Bottom line;

• Imbalances will stay, this is the nature of a game with multiple professions/roles
• Boredom will not be solved with more frequent balance patches.

Cynz.9437:

States.6387:

Cynz.9437:

i think’t it is ok for long CD elite
i main thief, i don’t really have much HP nor enough dodges (only 2) yet i survived most moas so far
… i actually killed some enemies while being in moa few times o.o

just try to repostion yourself, LOS, dodge, use skill 5? to run away

This only applies to bad pvpers though. If a skilled team or a skilled mesmer morphs you, they can easily down you and prevent you from being able to escape with use of gap closers.

that can happen with about any elite really… engi drops crate or lich hits you (through the wall too because logic)

even if you do get downed you still have team to support you, if you did die you can still rotate somewhere…. there are far worse things than long CD polymorph, imo

P.S. can’t believe i am actually defending mesmers…. never saw that comming

Mostly this; if a coordinated team wants you dead, then it can be done without Moa

Heck, I would argue that immobilize > Moa, considering you can still flee when being Moa’d… Immob when people are going in for the kill means certain death unless you can somehow mitigate all the instantanious damage (and this is where Vamp Runes come into play)

Moa’s fine

I think that the most valid complaints are that of the shouts are mostly incomparable to the existing utilities… CttB is extremely powerful effect wise for instance, but the wind-up makes the reward rather small, while the other elites (excl. Flesh Golem AI) are situational and with strong effects themselves

The GS needs to be tweaked in numbers if the dmg coefficients are the way it is… The long wind-ups are fine as long as the reward is enough… Utility wise this is quite a nice addition, not too overwelming, but more streamlined with the existing sets

Traitwise, and mechanically the Reaper brings a lot to the table that the core profession was incapable of doing… But as a valid point that people make, being forced in Melee can cost you your head

You know… Just wait a few weeks untill the cries are “The sustain of the Necro/Reaper is too big waah waaah” – because it will catch everyone off guard that sustainable bruisers are gonna become viable

I had doubts first, but I opened up after seeing a lot of possibilities… Of course, most traits are subjected to change, but with the current direction, a lot of builds that were impossible first will be opened up

Hopefully the dullness of Warrior will get fixed as well… I know that complaining about something that is generally good is not as nice, but I really detest the current playstyle in all formats

First of all, people always browsed for optimal builds… It was usually either people going to streams, or just looking at the list that Django made

Second of all – it is hilarious when people pick up a build and learn about 1 or 2 combos… It is so cute to see all D/P Thieves spamming the same rotation

Third bonus; most effective Thief build in solo-play seems to be venom share, as I have rarely see it being countered

What is currently the biggest hindrance of a Necromancer when coping in teamfights? Being CC’d to death

DS, though not a complete invuln was always a good source to protect your main health pool from incomming damage, but just relying on that is impossible… Add stability to the factor, and suddenly escape (or the ability to stick in a fight) becomes more plausible

Plus, if you are on an auto-attacking spree, you can (traited) heal upto 280hp/s in deathshroud via Blighter’s Boon(if you get 1 boon a second) and Unholy Sanctuary, which is comparable to the healing signets of the other professions… Add it up that you are a dangerous debuffer with the amount of chill, and suddenly you are the most annoying bruiser within the game

FYI, more commonly focussed now is a Shoutbow also due to the lack of Stab… Though he has mobility, it is not difficult for a Thief to catch up and (hopefully) proc Panic Strike – while Hambow was the last in line to get focussed in terms of spec. Protecting your main healthpool, as well as the incapability of being CC’d (stability or blinks) is a huge factor that comes into play who you focus first

Though it is not within the game yet, a lot of interesting stuff has landed on the plates to work with

Sandrox.9524:

As a player who loves both Necro and Mesmer in the level that I call them both my main,what in the 7 gods I should do? im torn apart here guys….

I’d say enjoy the best of both worlds and show both parties alike your worth

phys.7689:

i noticed in your other post you said 10 seconds, its a two second stun.

If you hit 5 targets you get immune to condi for 10 seconds.

so basically the big deal is condi immunity and chill

with 2 second cast time you are basically trading your lockdown for theirs
the dmg you do, you can do more in the same time frame.

the idea is ok, but the cast time makes it pretty hard to land, and the recast makes it a rarity.

Forgive me, I copied it wrong. I know very well that it is a 2 second lockdown

Edit – I got those from Dulfy, blame that instead of me :<

That said, my verdict stays the same… The idea behind all of them are quite good – but just not there… The oddity of it all is how Cooldowns and Reductions function, paired with effects that are seeminly lacklusters

@DarkSyze
Can you do me a favour and just leave any real world anology or interpretation out of a freaking discussion forum of a Video Game?

Anet has set up their own world and rules, of which the effects have been implemented for over 10 years now… Does Necromancer not fit your ideology or that of the “regular world”? Tough luck, they are not here to please an individual, and neither are they projecting exact copies of fantasy tropes within the game

If you say goodluck, then I hope you meant “farewell” because you are upset because of your very own reasoninng to dislike the theme set up by Arenanet … Write a ticket if it hits you so personally, who knows, maybe in GW3 they make your perfect Necro

War Mourner.5168:

The problem with the elite is that the cast time is rediculous.

I mean seriously, look at moa morph. It’s an elite skill that leaves one person pretty helpless for however long it last.
It has a 1sec cast time that is very distinctive. It gets avoid a lot.

Ours is double the cast time, we literally shout loudly to let every know it’s happening.
Even if we don’t get CC’d or blinded, or the enemy uses an evade or block, it’s a cakewalk to dodge a skill with such a long wind up.

I say “why wouldnt I use lich?” Because Lich is extremely straight forward.
For the next 20s, you press 1, can kill everything that moves, unless you get moa’d or they have projectile reflect.

If you don’t have one of the above 2 things, you cant avoid the damage of lich (other then running away).
The shout elite is a single AOE that is extremely manageable. I’d honestly put it on par with people’s opinion of 100 blades pre-release.

You say this, but in all honesty – how many times does for instance a Warbanner get succesfully interrupted? Even in Solo-play, not even a third of the community has a clue how to deal with it – added with either the CC from Fear Me, or just a regular Stability, suddenly the person you spent so much time on getting downed is up and running

I get you, the cast time is long for it’s effect, and I would not say no to a decrease of it – but the effect is literally huge…
Mechanically, if you are somewhat capable of using the thinkerbox, shutting down a Lich is easy as cake… The play for it is so straightforward, it creates no oppertunity like Chilled to the Bone does. Will you be able to cast it if you randomly start charging it within a teamfight? Probably not, Warbanners get interrupted the same way – but with some minor coordination (stability is somewhat more accesible now), you can easily pull of something this huge

Sometimes you need to look at it from the perspective of Teamplay – and I tell you, this elite screams “Teamplay” way more than any other elite that the Necromancer profession currently has… Lich has to be played around with, Plague is potent, but makes you very much a sitting duck aside from plague ressing – and this one is an opener, an oppertunity for the whole team to strike down, which leads to interesting play rather than “Heal the Lich while he spams 1”

Again, Cooldown Reduction? Fine by me, but the elite, in my very humble opinion, is really interesting, and really underappreciated

I found most of them to be a bit of a lackluster… Granted, the theme is nice and things are subjected to change… Why they would not make this a party utility? Easy, it would’ve been a band-aid to a core profession related issue – Anet aiming for (finally) reworking Blood Magic to be the support line (with maybe some good party leeching outcomes) is a good thing imho;

• Your Soul is Mine is the first heal for necros that give you Life Force but it is only 4% Life Force per enemy so it is good vs more enemies. - Idea is nice, but it holds no candle to Consume Conditions… This is a general issue Necromancers in the competitive aspect cope with, CC is just way too potent… This would either have scaling life as well, or decrease the recharge for DS/RS per enemy hit as a bonus to make it somewhat viable (reduction for DS+FitG can be really potent)

• Your are all weaklings is your stun breaker, inflicts weakness and gain might on struck foes. You get 4 stacks of might but they are fairly short lasting. - Weakness, good – but the might is an extreme lackluster… Either keep the duration and make it an AoE party buff (will never happen), or make it last a bit longer… Together with the incredibly slow nature of the NecroReaper, this will be mostly a defensive tool, if used at all

• Suffer l transfer a condition from you to each foe you strike and also chill them. - This is one I could personally enjoy, but I would need to see how it plays out… Not terribly good or bad… Should’ve kept the Stunbreak imho

• Nothing can save you convert enemies boons it hits into vulnerability. It will remove up to 2 boons per enemy and give 5 stacks of Vulnerability per boon removed. Also make your attack unblockable with duration depending on the number of enemies it hits (4s if you don’t hit anyone, 9s if you hit all 5). - Sounds good… Got nothing to add, looks really solid

• Rise skill currently summon Jagged Horrors on each enemy it hits which are fairly weak. - Everything that needed to be said has been said

• Chilled to the bone elite 600 range 5 target AoE stun that last for 2 seconds. It has quite of a long wind up so you will want stability on you to prevent interrupts. For each enemy you hit you gain resistance which make you resist conditions. - Resistance should become Stability, but aside from this, the skill is epic… I honestly do not get the complaints at all, this skill is so situational more useful than spamming 1 on Lich or 2 on Plague it is unbelievable. You can AoE interrupt a complete party, though for a short duration, and get your DPS to nuke a target down quickly… Even when they try to escape, the chill does wonders to make sure they will not get far. Maybe a Cooldown Reduction is in order… Just maybe

That said, a lot of potential, but most of them have fierce competitors when looking at the other already existing utilities

Muchacho.2390:

And from the looks of it the reaper will get stability and some sustain (though i admit i dont know how good it will be). But the pulsing stability on a 20 second cooldown (before cd reduction of the most likely mandetory vital persistance) is actually a really good stability skill. This could be enough for the reaper to be fine in melee range.

The only other limiting factor being acces to lifeforce… Though it seems that the traits are reasonable…
It will be interesting for sure – but the last thing I want is camping the crates/windows at Khylo to get some LF :P

DarkSyze.8627:

Meet: The Reaper
- That was suppose to be for The Necromancer Profession
——————————————————————————————————————-

I Am Very Disappointed!!

Why? Is this what a reaper is? With a Great sword? and with chill Element?

Is not Chill Element belong to Elementalist Profession? What connection/relationship does communicating with the dead and raising the dead spirits have with an element?
Absolutely~ Nothing!!

Hello, Necromancer main in GW1 here,

Maybe you should do more research before spouting nonsense;

Grenth is the God of Death and Ice. He is the patron god of Assassins, Water Elementalists, Necromancers, and Ritualists, and is linked to the Season of the Colossus in the Elonian calendar.

Ice is not good enough a hint?

About:Grenth

Edit: Bonus

Death Magic
Increases the duration and effectiveness of skills that deal cold and shadow damage to enemies as well as those that increase the effectiveness of your undead minions. The higher the Death Magic Attribute is, the more undead servants you may control at one time.

About:Necromancer

messiah.1908:

and then it comes back to you 1 sec later leaving you with no cleanse. while necro stand on point and you cant

Only took three years to get to that point then anyway

Besides, what is the point of a melee oriented fighter if everyone is capable of running away without any issues? The whole point of this specialization is to make everyone think like “Dang, it is one of those, better avoid it”

Well, Terrormancer is highly situational…

When will you land Corrupt Boon? When is the time to enter the fight, land Dark Path and convert boons?
Everything is something that needs to be done pro-actively… You set up your defenses, use a small window of oppertunity and get away again. True combos do not exist, maybe aside from landing a fear after some Condi Spikes

And yes, the Auto-attacks are your friends on every spec… sadly (Scepter 1 for bleeds, Staff 1 for Lifeforce)

Since apparently some people cannot relate because of reasons, I think I have to agree with them that it is a bad idea…

… Alternatively I want harder punishments of those who involve themselves in BM-ing either the enemy or your team, since it is a form of match manipulation. Maybe a few weeks of not being able to allowed to come into HotM would serve them right

Or am I going overboard now?

Jurica is a hard working and honest PvP- er who happens to play Mesmer in a harsh enviroment… I can vouch for his honesty on the subject

Celestial Shout Life Siphon Support Perma Chill Minion Master go!

Basically, it looks nice on paper… Will have to see (sadly)… The stab was good… real good

Cogbyrn.7283:

Funny, people who left back then would probably say that all the good players left the game in the early days, leaving all of the bad players. I don’t really agree with either side.

And I’m not only thinking about dodges. I’ve landed many a Dagger #3 on someone coming out of a block/invuln because they get careless and don’t watch to see if they need to dodge the second it drops. The GS #3 ability hits 6 times in very rapid succession. The GS #4 pulses regularly while you’re doing other things. They gave Necros a built-in pulsing Stability in Shroud #3, which you can trigger, then drop out and heal if you’d like if you want to try to avoid those pesky healing interrupts.

I’m not saying it will be easy, but it looks like nothing new to me. Same old questions I’ve already looked into answering myself, with some interesting new answers with some of these abilities.

I can certainly find myself into what you wrote…

One particular thing I am really interested in is to see how the Lifeforce will play out with the new skills/traits…. With any luck, it might become a good bruiser profession due to it’s ability to sustain itself to get the heal

One thing though, the Elite should change the Resistance to Stability like they mentioned… Necromancers can drown themselves with skills that will either convert, remove or transfer condis, so Resistance is certainly not needed

Bone Fiends for sure… Synergy with the ice-fields (Projectile, though unpredictable), and somewhat more threatening than freaking Jagged Horrors

zapv.8051:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Funny enough, the Blood Magic rework sounded more magical than the Reaper itself :P

I’m super excited for both.

I have to see how it will play out… The new DS skills triumph way over the old ones – and the sick amount of vulnerability is real (seriously, you can stack up to 20 on your own within seconds)… I am a bit in between now… pleasantly surprised, that is for sure

Vampiric Aura however makes my undies wet me really curious as to how it will play out… It is a seperate damage modifier (most likely) which helps a lot

Funny enough, the Blood Magic rework sounded more magical than the Reaper itself :P

spoj.9672:

They addressed a number of the mesmers core issues with the chronomancer. So its not unreasonable to expect them to do the same for the necro.

I got to admit that this is a good point…

The way I also figured it was; If they made the Necromancer Specialization a very good choice for PvP and PvE, Anet can, while the playerbase plays the Reaper, work on the core profession to get it in line again… It would be a really big plus if they did – but sadly, it needs to be seen…

Only a few more hours left anyway

ronpierce.2760:

It has only been a few weeks and this has been in process for a long time. I suspect not much from their old train of thought has changed yet. Perhaps it will be something we will need to hold out for until closer to HOT. I doubt they went through ALL of that info and actually proactively began changing things just yet. They don’t seem to make openly discussed decisions that fast.

I hate to say it, but the process of Anet comming to the conclusion of these traits, the setup etc. etc. has taken a lot of time before…

Listening to ongoing feedback, implement it, take feedback from it while maintaining the deadline is a cruel dangerous task… The fact that they do not relay information based on the feedback is because of the work that needs to be done (I figure), so try and hold your breath a bit longer… I have no doubt that a lot of useful information has landed on the desks of the balance team, but looking at their past, I would not hope that all doors will open up – rather, I expect a careful and slow approach to implement the feedback, with a nod telling that the feedback is heard…

Roe.3679:

The idea is we’re all wishing things were better, but we’re still here for a reason, so we shouldn’t be bashing anet for launching changes when we actually want changes. What sense does it make to have a 12 page thread with suggestions to improve the class and then whine the moment they mention changes, even before we see them all?

I think every regular poster here believes that we are frustratingly close to being good. Let’s see if we’re good.after this livestream. So far, so good, in my opinion, but there’s a lot of info we don’t know.

I do not disagree with you, but that said, there is a certain expectation that crept into the professions when you look at the history of balance and changes… Some people, rightfully, fear the worst… Whether you like to read it or not, it is not unreasonable to think that not a lot of changes for the greater good will be made

I am personally really indifferent… The moment specializations came into the universe, the first thing(s) I figured is that it will not change the core of most professions, but rather give them some new (and improved) tools to expand on said profession… In the Necromancers’ case, this would mean that a lot of core issues remain unsolved… Emphasis on “would” of course
I need to see it out myself… but my expectations are quite low for two out of eight professions, because of how they were handled in the past (and due to the Engineer profession getting a complete trait-rework)

Roe.3679:

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

I’ll judge based on their history with the necromancer.

I get it, but if you are so down on the class I wonder why you’re still here in this forum, and not over at thieves or guardians where anet has been historically good.

Not to butt into the conversation, but what is the point of discussing something that has been historically good?

Discussing mistakes and pointing out flaws is not a bad thing at all… I find it a bit insulting to insinuate that people better need to leave this subforum alone if they are discontent with it… It is a discussion forum for a reason, not a “praise the dark lawd” one
Could the tone be different sometimes? Maybe, but frankly after three years of extremely slow and passive balancing, it is not weird that people have adopted this tone

Laraley.7695:

Rym.1469:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Laraley.7695:

Power based minionmancer spec for necros?

Yikes.

Just imagine it; a Celestial Shout Minion Mancer Reaper with perma-chill…

Death Novas everywhere, condi cleanse comming out of their nose while keeping everyone on the point due to their ability to drag and keep people in combat

Fearing the Reaper yet?

I would, but he needs more cowbell.

Seriously though, there’s nothing wrong with more minions. They should be more utility-based though rather than summons following Necro all the time. Like Flesh Wurm.

Minion siphoning all healing within radius from enemies and giving it back to Necromancer when destroyed? Minion similar to Risen Abomination, gaining Frenzy when Necromancer is hit, giving AoE quickness every couple hits and AoE slow on destruction?

You can use your imagination.

Should be yeah, forgive me but I do not have much faith in devs anymore. I was hoping for necromancers to get some buffs to condi, eventually team support, which the expansion could bring. The reaper seems more like a power based spec, which necro totally didn’t need.

If they will make it right and the minions actually will be more utility based rather than ‘’do dmg for me’’ based, then yeah I think it’s a good thing. We’ll have to wait and see.

No worries, you are not alone… I was just pointing out in my obscure message that you can make everything sound wonderful on paper – but in practice there are several limiting factors to the gameplay of the Necromancer… Having no faith in those who have handled the balancing of the profession for three is not weird considering it’s state

Unique utility is drastically needed in two formats of the game… While Boonhate is not bad, it is also not the end of all, and countered easily with the spaming of boons, or lesser emphasis on it… How this will play out, we can only guess and see tonight; I hope to be pleasantly surprised since I also am (not) looking forward to the Warrior Specialization to see what kind of change it can bring…

Talonblaze.3175:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Just imagine it; a Celestial Shout Minion Mancer Reaper with perma-chill…

Death Novas everywhere, condi cleanse comming out of their nose while keeping everyone on the point due to their ability to drag and keep people in combat

Fearing the Reaper yet?

Moa.
Solution to most annoying MM builds, Lich and shroud users.

But Anet will surely fix the transform bugs right?

… Right?

S-Soon™?

Laraley.7695:

Power based minionmancer spec for necros?

Yikes.

Just imagine it; a Celestial Shout Minion Mancer Reaper with perma-chill…

Death Novas everywhere, condi cleanse comming out of their nose while keeping everyone on the point due to their ability to drag and keep people in combat

Fearing the Reaper yet?

Flashy presentation, good name – Anet sold it well… on superficial levels

Well nothing that struck me as “oh neat”… I already had no hopes because I figured if they would “fix” the issues of the core profession with the specialization, then no one would play the core anymore… So while this looks cool at the moment, it does not seem to solve several issues… Also, a shout that summons Jagged Horrors… … ..

I will see tomorrow, wait out the Warrior presentation, but there are chances that I will go and concentrate on other meaningless stuff

True tanks do not exist within the mode;

You got Bruisers who are akin to it, are capable of dealing sustained damage. Examples are;

• Shoutbow Warrior
• Hambow Warrior
• D/D Cele Elementalist
• Staff Cele Elementalist

These differ from true tanks due to the fact that you can very well take them down fast with a coordinated burst, and bring some kind of support to the table. Comparable to these is also Celestial Engineer – but this one is more frequently used in the role of an Assualter/Roamer

And then you got Bunkers – not capable of dealing a ton of damage, but more capable of defending themselves against numbers. Guardians, though not frequently used within this role, are unparalleled within this role due to their uptime of block and invulns (which is the only way to mitigate a full burst).

The main reason as to why true Tanks do not exist is because they are inherrintly selfish… It is not impossible to make a tanky build on any profession, but your usefulness will eventually decline when you compare yourself to other roles

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

If another AI spec makes it into specializations, I am going to uninstal the game and fill my free time with other needless aspects… Sorry to say, but since these three years, AI has literally held back the game multiple times, and with no change in sight to improve it… you can guess the rest

Well, if we get Spirits, there still won’t be another AI spec. They don’t perform any actions, and thus have no AI.

Not entirely true, there were some spirits within GW1 who were capable of sending out spirit bullets to foes…

You could compare them to sentries or turrets rather… Whatever the case, Anet is horrible with anything that relies on AI to function, so if not a passive spirit such as Rangers, then I am outta here… not because it is Necro – it could’ve been Warrior or Thief for my sake, but I am just done with the brilliant ideas that were terrible in the end (resulting in nerfs that makes them obsolete in the end)

knkasa.2608:

I see players sometimes asking to buff necros, but when it comes to balancing necro, devs have to be careful because necros are one of the superb class in wvw. They shine in big scale fights like zerg vs zerg. It’s no coincidence that people came up with the comp GWEN. While necro may not be the best in conquest mode, but mesmers and rangers aren’t the best either. You cant hope and stick to one profession and be good in all game mode: conquest, roaming, dueling, zerg fights. You never bring a thief in zerg fights hoping to contribute as much as GWEN do. Every professions generally lack in something to some extent. Basically, if they buff necros, they’d be super in wvw. Something else have to tone down.

See, this is what I find so weird…

First off, “Buffs” are vague – it could be a buff to the damage output, or a buff in party utility – either way it is a buff, of which one I do not approve… However, if they for instance made say Blood is Power into a party buff, in WvWvW GWEN’s meta is is barely going to do anything, whereas in PvP and PvE it suddenly changes into a party utillity everyone can profit from…
Besides, I think a better word is Improvements as I barely see anyone stating that the damage output of the Necromancer needs to be buffed in any kind of play…

This said, and sorry for saying – but the devs made a huge mistake when trying to maintain the same balance for every three of the gamemodes… Necromancer is far behind in PvE in any terms of usefulness and has been just for the sake of trying to make the system less confusing…

ronpierce.2760:

GoogleBrandon.5073:

Ritualist seems out of the question right now – lack of blue themed spirits and some omnious aura does not imply ritualist… Though I was wrong about the Guardian, so hey-ho

They’re keeping all classes with their base-class color on purpose. It keeps them categorized.

But idk…
http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/thumb/6/62/Aggressive_binding_spirit.jpg/250px-Aggressive_binding_spirit.jpg
vs
http://i.imgur.com/D8K7psU.jpg

I could see that thing behind there being a spirit outline.

I do not see it, but I’ll be fair…

If another AI spec makes it into specializations, I am going to uninstal the game and fill my free time with other needless aspects… Sorry to say, but since these three years, AI has literally held back the game multiple times, and with no change in sight to improve it… you can guess the rest

choucs.4507:

just accept your noobiness and stop trying to insult devs and try to have your class buffed to cover your sorry ars

if you are as good as noscoc you would already be in a team and be competing in top levels.

If this game actually incentified to “get as good as Noscoc” then people would’ve by now…

Implying that Nos is the only good Necro is a bit void though… Not like I am a good Necro (not even maining one), but there are some out there who are just as good, if not better due to not being limited by playing Necromancer only

spoj.9672:

The symbol in the background is what makes me think its not spirits or simple shouts.

Exactly my thoughts,

Though it could be whatever the Devs planned with DS… Whatever it is, does not seem to imply AI

Ritualist seems out of the question right now – lack of blue themed spirits and some omnious aura does not imply ritualist… Though I was wrong about the Guardian, so hey-ho

Falcon.8713:

This forum is overly depressing, complain when there’s no need to

First of all, if there were no reasons to complain or discuss – no one would be here on the forums…

Second of all – strange how a large majority seems to have issues… Must be a player issue for sure

Third – People are actually not just overly depressed, they make valid complaints with interesting bullet points… Only an average of 1/5th is a false claim with some nonsense, but every profession has those people

I should actually not care… I barely do anything whenever I log in anymore simply because I do not feel like doing anything… But at least respect people

Necromancers necroing a thread about Necromancers

It cannot be more meta than this

Nature of the forums…

Besides, is it that weird to tell people the truth about a profession? Granted, a lot exaggerate or have false claims – but the major gist of it is that the Necromancer in this game is a mere shade of the glorious profession it was in it’s predecessor, and it has been like this for three years…

People have the right to complain about factual flaws, as do they have the right to inform others about the profession when asked

I find that Rampage and Lich fall under a different category really…

Lich is incredibly bad designed, sorry for saying, but the emphasis of the damage being on the first skill without any thought makes it boring to play as, and frustrating to fight against… You can counter it, do not get me wrong, but gameplay wise it is incredibly boring… Most people do not even understand that the 5th skill is one to use as well at times

Rampage however is a bit different… All skills on the bar are extremely situational and are well thought out in my opinion… I honestly think that this elite is balanced rather well