I am sorry, after a long break and coming back to see the state of the game, im appalled actually. all you see is zerk zerk zerk. why? because the power creep has allowed for a MASSIVE amount of damage increase, with very little to compensate. So what you get is zerk wvw and who can do the most damage as fast as possible, versus skilled play. why skilled play? Because all you have to do spam damage as fast as possible and hope you outdamage your enemy as fast as possible. one stun, and its done, despite trying to load up on defense. Anet you have made armor/defense moot. I am sure I will be spammed and laughed at, but its ridiculous.
So DPS spike classes (thief, mesmer, warrior, and some eles) prosper why classes that can’t do the massive spike as efficiently suffer.
So terrible imo.
I have always thought that our problems with sustain and our entire up time was not due to our lack of healing in death shroud or our lack of damage in condition or power builds but comes down to our limited capability to mitigate damage from multiple sources when focused and our utter lack of stability. The problem that bothers me the most is that we have little acces to stability and thus are stub magnets or cc magnets which completlely shuts down our ability to finish our burst rotations or reapply conditions that are all to easily cleansed. Another thing that bothers me is that some classes get access to stability and immunity to conditions and or damage while still being able to apply damage. If a necro even tries to accomplish this our sustain or ability to spike is nonexistent. Heck, our damage just goes down. Other classes can defend and attack. We can only do one, well, which is apply damage if we are not cc’d. Defense on a necro depends on being a damage sponge, which in my opinion caps the ability of a good necro to compensate. As in that no matter the skill, the necro will always be at a slight disadvantage even at a high skill level because we simple have limited options to mitigate damage that really centers on ds management which is not overly dependable.
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Seriously your win ratio is 50%, which means if your average your team can carry you. It’s basically cheering for yourself because you don’t actually ride the shortbus
If you get killed the you will respawn near the portal. Kill some freaking rabbits or something to get DS. If you are getting killed that easy then you need to practice more. That build is survivable and a killer if you have skill.
Problem has existed for two years… Any problem/game mechanic issue that exists for two years in a game, is unlikely to be changed. Adapt and move on. If you fall in the water you should have something else teed up anyways.
Why bring a necro? Because this game is a casual play at your leisure game. There is no reason not to unless you want to clear it fastEr or you want to do a speed run. Even then a necro is not bad. If this game really required teamwork and not just damage spam then you could worry about what classes you bring. The only diff in what classes you bring is the speed of the kill, and necros are not that bad. Outside of kill time, this game requires no thought in class combos, and what people are worried abOut is how to do these boring dungeons as fast as possible
Problem is not that any one skill of the warrior is OP, it’s more that the warrior has so many good skills that it outshines other classes in more categories. Damage (sustain, spike, condition), defense, mobility. The combination of what a warrior brings is what makes it outperform the other classes and pushes the OP window.
Seriously, last substantial post was on the 13th of June, and that was just pointing out the ready up. Guess it’s time to follow my mates to another.
I suppose that has precluded them from discussing or sharing their points of view, or adding feedback on existing issues?
Has anyone seen a dev talking about class balance in months? Are there anymore discussions where the devs take part? Where are they? What are the plans for the balance issues that have been routinely pointed out and discussed at length by the players? Living story, mundane quests, and more moderate dungeons are not my forte… Pvp balance must be locked in. Gw2’s new modo – accept as is?
With regard to PVP: I really think if Anet gave us a skill that allowed us to mitigate being focused fired, it would do a lot for the class. A unique skill that allowed us block incoming damage for a short period of time, to be used when you get jumped on a point, or want to hold out for your team to come. For example, if we had a skill that would consume lifeforce when activated (outside of deathshroud), during which time we were rendered imobile with stabilty. At the end of the skill, you would detonate in an exploding poison cloud (end poison yourself). So, the skill consumes lifeforce and is active until life force is depleted, the skill goes on a cooldown (maybe 60 seconds) and ends with a small amount of damage and poison to nearbye enemies. This is just an example that i have floating around in my head, so likely not the best representation, and likely there are other better ideas in the community.
WIth regards to PVE: I am not in the “Cleave solves our pve probs crowd”, but i really think something needs to happen with the condition cap, and boon control. Giving us the opportunity to do damage while using a condition build, as well as be able to impact the boons on mobs and bosses. Furthermore, I remember when we were able to fear bosses to interrupt skills. That made us useful, but also rendered bosses more controllable. I still think our fear-interrupt was a huge hit to our pve viability. Thus,if our boon stripping skills were re-added, we would be useful again in pve encounters.
I am not a huge fan of a robe wearing great sword wielder. that said, i would be down for a scythe that gives us some crowd control effects, though I am open if it should be for power builds or condition builds.
I would also be fan of a torch off hand that would give us a cc effect, coupled with a mobility skills, somewhat like a blink or some skill that grants us an immunity for a short period of time.
who knows.
Guys, is the standard Condition build the pre-dhumfire 0/30/20/0/20 build again, or does anyone run duhmfire anymore?
Guessing from my playstyle, i’d be running a 0/30/20/0/20 condi build with a mix of dire to increase tankiness, as crit does not seem to be necessary as much as long as you can get it up to 30-40% The new DM minor traits, with the new grandmaster trait makes me want to go back to the classic build.
I am so excited to get back to playing… stuck in africa = terrible internet…
As I said … Off day. I stand corrected
hey, having an off day, but have they ever implemented changes on traits, etc that players have suggested? i’ve given up hope of having an impact on the devs, as i kitten they don’t take into account the players who actually play the necros, aside from 1-2 elite guys.
i think your your questions is more “To be, or not to be… in the meta”
Hot join – does not matter.
structured team play – necro does offer the benefits to teamplay or mobility that a mesmer doesfit as well as a mesmer.
hmm, i guess another good point, but if he emerged in a random point hahaha.
That would be fun, interesting, and potentially bad hahaha
Agree Rennoko. WHat about if the animation sequence effectively detargeted the necro, as he sunk into the ground, which would require a retarget when he emerged.
Right, which is not what I am suggesting. I am suggesting a skill that immobilizes us, plants us in the ground, does not let us attack and is short in duration, to just break up a focus fire event.
RIGAMORTIS: DS 6 based skill or a utility skill (lets workshop it a bit):
Potential example with DS: After entering DS the necromancer can hit DS6 which turns him into a corpse, which essentially locks him out of all combat skills. The necromancer takes no damage while in the state of rigamortis (no DS drain) for a specified period of time, while being unable to move or do damage. (Caveat – condi damage continues to tick)
Potential Utility skill: Necromancer utility skill that turns the necromancer into a corpse. which essentially locks him out of all combat skills. The necromancer takes no damage while in the state of rigamortis for a specified period of time, and is unable to move or do attack. (Caveat – condi damage continues to tick).
Either of these woudl be skill based, and would allow the necro to mitgate damage when being focus fired.
What do you think? Graphic could be cool, necromancer sinks into the ground (is burried) and then re-emerges before the timer runs out. or just turns into a stinking corpse.
They could tie a poison cloud to it at the end, in that if someone is near you when you emerge or stand up, you belt out a kitten ton of poison.
I think the necro just needs one or two slight additions:
One access to a stability that is not DS based, or have foot in the grave moved from the grandmaster trait to the master slot, in order to allow more builds the ability to take the skill. I think they should also up the time from 3 to 4 seconds and decrease te cooldown slightly (I would have no problem slamming into DS as any build to pick up some stability) Obviously they should test this first to see if it puts us over the top. Biggest problem to me is the ability to compeltely lock down most Necro builds with CC.
—- Potential idea: It could be a skill based block that can be triggered in DS. Thus, go into DS, and Freeze yourself into a block of ICE or turn yourself into an invulnerable corpse at will (button 6 of DS.) Can’t do damage, but you can sit in that block of ICE/or lie as a corpse when you get swarmed and targeted. let your team pick up the slack. SOunds interesting, is skill based, and does not allow us to continue doing damage.
Two: one of the following – a short duration block tied to going into DS or coming out of DS. 1.5 – 2 seconds (idk – discuss?) that would allow us to mitgate some damage when being targeted by multiple enemies. Alternatively, the block could be a SKILL BASED utility skill (requiring timing) that prevents us from doing any active damage while using the skill.
- or a blink/escape of some sort that allows us to step away from the situation when being uberslapped by multiple opponents,. that is not tied to a minion and does no damage.
damage fine – ability to mitigate damage dealt from focus fire or being locked down by CC = problems.
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I guess they will be keeping Dhuumfire as a grandmaster trait, though I still feel it is really weak, and does not represent a grandmaster trait. I wish they would move this trait to curses. It does not belong in the spite line. Spite line needs a trait that helps out power builds in my opinion. Only one grandmaster trait for spite powerbuilds and that is the increase in damage when target is below 50% hps
Agree that we need a bit more CC protection, and I am a firm advocate of moving foot in the grave to a master level trait. Won’t happen but it would really change some things up.
I’ll probably do something similiar to the the 30/30/0/0/10 build, pending the new GM curses trait. I was hoping to try and work in a stability for the condition class, but I don’t think the class will be hurting too much with burning not being crit dependent.
Ren, how does Dire work out for a condi class?
I looked back over a lot of recent posts, including my own, and I realized that an overwhelming majority of the posts are negative. I include myself in this matter, because I am perhaps one of the more overly negative posters on this forum. Why is that? I kept asking myself why the heck would I get so negative about a game. In all honesty, I am not entirely sure, but I will only speak for myself. This is really the only class I play (or played as i took a hiatus to travel). I don’t like the other classes as much and I always return to the necro.
I think, for one, I have played this game since beta, and I have greatly enjoyed most aspects of it. WvW is what I love the most, as I find it a challenge to face the odds most necromancers face in the game. We are slow, tough, and can lay waste if we catch an enemy off guard. We are decent roaming, and we are great in a zerg (though I tend to avoid zergs because, well, they are boring to me.)
So why am I negative? I think it has to do with the disparity between what I would like to see the class become, what it is, and what it will be. Maybe my version is different than the devs, and no matter how much I push, it just simply go the way they want it to. It is not necessarily a bad thing, it just differs from what I want to see. So, how does one cope with that? I think, for myself, I should just relax and play the game. Having a voice, especially a negative one, does nothing more than serve to spin myself up, and ultimately get ignored haha. So for me, I think I am going to withhold my negative comments, and just relax and enjoy the game. Perhaps we could all do just that, and maybe come up with constructive ways to deal with some of the unbalanced aspects of the game, at least until another game comes along with something more appealing. Thus, I apologize for being a negative dork.
Anyone come up with any useful “theoretical” new builds to incorporate the new traits? Are there new builds? Did we just get tougher as condition mancers? Are there new tank/turtle builds? Would that do any good to be tougher and not be able to do any good damage?
Then it’s like asking for some candy and getting a single skittle.
Rennoko, don’t get me wrong, i would greatly appreciate this trait if it did do healing in DS as well. I don’t think it is even near OP, and franky, it is going to be tough to compete with dhuumfire to maintain damage if it does not heal in DS as well. I doubt i will take it, as it will be negligiable in WvW. It would be more valuable if it continued to heal the necro’s health pool in DS.
Like I said, I am not knocking the trait. I am knocking the fact that it gets cut off when someone goes into DS, because of the cruddy design of the DS mechanic.
I am still curious as to how parasitic contagion is going to allow healing via conditions, if the conditionmancer goes into DS. Does it just stop? That will be terrible.
Sometimes i just don’t see where the DEVs get these ideas. I just don’t get it. I mean, i think they look at their favorite classes, see what they need, and bandaid apply it to all the other classes. I mean, they have to give them something, but don’t want to spend time thinking about what the class actually needs.
These traits still seem like collage of afterthoughts.
Don’t look at the players who have mastered the class, just make some random stuff up and apply.
What would be OP is if you went into DS, and your conditions kept ticking and it continued to heal your HPs. But we all know, the moment we jump into DS, you will no longer heal (your healing will stop immediately), and will essentialy be a wasted trait.
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sorry, mesmers and warriors are two of the most prevalent classes due to their usefulness in PVE and PVP meta, in part due to their skills, and abilities. The rest of the classes suffer for the opposite reasons, their traits lack synergy and they don’t bring anything to the PVE meta. For PVP, they are situational. With regard to necromancers, we get conditions and then the aforemtioned classes complain and necros get further nerfed. Great, lets keep showing favoritism to the elite classes.
I am perplexed and thrown by the huge disparity in trait quality etc among the classes. Perhaps a blatant example is the new grandmaster trait for Mesmers and warriors , compared to the rest. Is this just an example of how much Mesmer and Warrior are just so favored compared to the rest of the classes?
Or is it just that the Devs have no clue what the other classes actually need. The ranger class grandmaster and necromancer grandmaster should ALREADY BE IN THE GAME AS MECHANICS not TRAITS!
I am sorry, I cannot decide if it is just blatant favoritism or just plain ignorance to what the lesser classes need.
no, actually i was thinking 0/20,30,0,20 as a more survivable condi build for example. Or 20,10,0,10,30 for a DS/Power build. Anything, actually. at 30, if you go 30 into SR to get stability, you have one build that is effective, which is 30/10/0/0/30 as a DS build.
Moving it to 20 would allow variety of condition builds and power builds. The only reason anyone with a condi build goes into SPite is to get burning, which I think should be a 30 level curses trait imo. Moving it to curses would lower the duration of burning by 30%, unless someone still went 30 into spite to be a hybrid.
Right now we have 1 access to stability… one, and its a grandmaster trait that makes you inefficient in whatever specialty you want to get 3 secs of stability.
Ok, 3 or 4 seconds on foot in the grave is an interesting question, but won’t do anythign to help build diversity. I really am referring to moving Foot in the Grave to a master level slot, making stability readily available to a variety of builds, without killing the type of build.
Putting it on spectral skills would be too much because we would go from little stability to 3-4 diff skills with stability. That would be OP.
Yeah, if they nerf burning as they plan to, I still hold that Dhuumfire should also be moved to a Master level trait, or a Curses grandmaster trait. Not that I am a fan of the burning thing, but the nerf to our other conditions as a result of the addition of burning makes burning almost a necessary trait to have for a condition build. WIthout it, we just can’t keep condition pressure and damage up. Burning not only increases damage but helps cover bleed damage from being instantly removed by a cleanse.
If they moved it to a curses grandmaster/master trait, it would cut the duration of burning down 30% right off the bat, as no condition build would really go into Spite, or if they did, it would only be for hybrid builds.
If they moved Foot in the grave to master level SR, and burning to Curses grandmaster/master, then a large amount of builds would open up. In my opinion.
Necromancers:
What are the potential positive/negative implications of moving Foot in the Grave from the Grandmaster to Master trait level?
One of my biggest pet peeves is that we are required to face tank damage due to our limited mobility. While I actually like the idea, what I don’t like doing is getting ping ponged around by CC. I think as one of the least mobile classes, with extremely limited damage mitigation skills (Blocks, evades, invulerabilties) we should at least be able to adequately protect ourselves from being over CC’d. I have seen ideas from putting stability on Spectral armor, to increasing the duration of stability gained during well of power. In my opinion, it would be highly beneficial to make stability more readily accessable to a variety of builds, by moving it from 30 in SR to 20 in SR.
Anyone else have thoughts on how this would be OP, not OP, or not helpful? I am having trouble seeing how it would be OP, but i do see it as really increasing build diversity and assisting us with protecting against becoming the dark ping pong ball of free kills in wvw and pvp. I mean, at least if we have to face tank the damage and can’t escape, then at least let us eat the damage and die standing up, instead of CC’d on my back watching my impending doom.
Perhaps they broke it while trying to address ranger pet problems. Have to admit that AI has been messed up since the game began. Unlike some, I don’t want to do some special series of moves to get my minions to attack. I feel that if I target a player and hit any button for any aggressive type of attack skill, minions should attack my target. I have no why this is so freaking hard for the devs. If I attack a target with a skill in pve the target becomes aggressive and attacks me. Why are minions any diff but in reverse. These devs are lazy
I still think a major improvement to several builds would be to move the grandmaster SR trait granting stability for 3 secs to the master level trait. It would still be restricted to DS, but more accessable to more types of builds. Necromancer is just too vulnerable to CC and is essentially. Ping pong ball in pvp or Wvw (roaming).
I also think the new version of dhuumfire should be a master level trait as well
Here is something that would really shake up the necromancer, and by proxy the GW2 world. Move the grandmaster stability trait to 20 in SR, and keep it at 3 seconds. Move master of terror SR trait from 20 to 30, and give it an added effect, like for example, a siphon for Life Force. In that, when you fear someone, you gain Life force while they are feared. THat woudl be amazing, and not OP imo. Give us more sustain, give us an ability to get some stability for more builds
Example of a good SR Grandmaster Trait.
Soul Drain: Grandmaster Trait – Upon applying Fear on an enemy, a parasitic bond is created whereby draining the target of life essence and transferring it to the necromaqncers life force.
—Alternative variation – Upon applying Fear, the damage done by the necromancer to the enemy while feared is siphoned to the necromancers health (max 2k health healed as example..) Healing while in deathshroud?
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I have mixed feelings about it. If they move it to Life Blast, which will make it a 3 second burn at max every 10 seconds, then they should drop it from a grandmaster trait. It does not deserve to be a grandmaster. In fact, it will cut down on condi spikes hugely, as you cannot maintain other condition damage in shroud.
In addition, they have nerfed our other condition damage (bleeds) due to the addition of burning, and our total output will even be worse with this addition, regardless of if you can apply it in DS without crit.
I am very frustrated with the dev’s lack of communication. I swear they created the collaborative development forum posts to say even less about balance. Since they started those posts, they have commented not at all on anything but rangers, with respect to class balance. Not that the necro forums ever had dev responses or attention. Who cares, several games coming out that will allow the community alternatives to hoping the devs in GW2 will wake up. I grow tired of their snobby approach to development, and that is my opinion.
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Totally agree with you rennoko. It needs to be moved to a master level and some bleed nerfs changed. In my opinion moving it to master level opens up way more builds. Plus in my opinion it should be in curses. Would help offset the duration issue iwith burning due to being in the spite line
Everyone is getting ready for yet another nerf to condition builds and so have begun practicing running power builds
When compared to other grandmaster traits, and coupled with the nerfs to our other abilities, dhuumfire in its new form will not representative of a grandmaster trait. In addition I do not believe it should be in the spite line. The extra duration granted from the spite line is good, I agree. However, I think putting a condition damage trait at the grandmaster level in this line really cuts down on build diversity as if you don’t try to add burning you will be less viable, especially with all the other nerfs we have suffered. They have essentially made burning a must have for a condition necro and useless for anything else.
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Just feel the defense trait line, minors and majors, are too minion focused and could be opened up to give necros more options. Two minion focused grandmaster traits has always been very diss appointing when a non minion master wAnts to go gain more toughness.
Still really bummed they left dhuumfire as a grandmaster spite trait. such a bad decision and will likely never be taken, which when coupled with the other nerfs suffered to our other conditions will weaken condition builds even more so. Just really irks me
Granted Anet feels dhuumfire needs a change, and it appears that it will be shifted to death shroud one with a horrible 10 second cool down. Fine, your game, your rules. That said I do not think this represents a grandmaster level trait. You will make it useless if you keep it at the grandmaster level. In addition this trait belongs in curses and brings absolutely nothing to power builds. Moreover the nerfs you have done to our other dmg conditions are going to make this even more of a necessity to do damage which ruins any build diversity if you want to do damage. You have pigeon holed condition builds and effectively made them weaker at the same time.
Well they killed dhuumfire. Its still in the Spite line, which is horribly stupid. Complete waste of a skill … 3 secs of burning on 10 seconds cooldown? P.O.S. skill for a grandmaster level trait, with no return to our other damaging condition abilities.
ANET has no creativity. Thus, because im bored with their “balacing” point of view, lack of creativity, ill continue spend my time and cash elsewhere.
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Not surprisingly, all the classes except thief, warrior and guardian retain their relative placement about the player breakdown by profession.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-the-first-year/Basically, most people just voted their chars, regardless of actual balance issues.
I think you are only partially correct. For example, Rangers are one of the most popular/common class, while necromancer is at the bottom with regart to popularity/frequency of play. Yet Necromancers still wound up 3rd. Thus, while I think the voting was flawed in some ways, with so many rangers there to vote for their own class, it is clear that there are some flaws with the class. In addition, there are so few necromancers in contrast with rangers and eles, which in my opinion, emphasizes the amount of bugs with the class