Guild Wars 2

Advent.6193:

Also, is it terribly impossible to alter or add a Trait that allows for Confusion on Interrupt?

I had always felt that Confounding suggestions should do that, (then destroy perplexity runes). But maybe it’s just me.

Am I the only one who doesn’t care for copying other people’s skills?

I’d rather just get the gw1 Echo, which turns into the next skill I use, so I can use chaos storm, blurred frenzy, more often, or stack phantasms more quickly

Nilkemia.8507:

You realize they’ll give us an annoying achievement grind for that too right? Plus, unless Marjory continues to have those items for sale after this patch ends, it will be pointless.

The spores are used in the recipes, including the recipes for consumable items. They have a purpose.

Shriketalon.1937:

snip

I like the bardic mantra idea. Turning the long channel into a strength, rather than a liability, will help greatly towards making mantras more acceptable in the minds of players.

Einlanzer.1627:

JonPeters.5630:

I think the mesmer discussion has been pretty positive overall and productive but I wanted to bring up some points that I am seeing and some new ones as well.

Scepter
Scepter is still missing something but we don’t want to overload the autoattack as we think that promotes more mindless play and are trying to move away from builds that focus so much on the “1” skill. I feel like that scepter should be the tricksy defender that can stop enemies from attacking and defend allies, but maybe it’s single target nature is keeping that from working.

Confounding Suggestions
We were hoping this change would improve this. I’m mostly seeing people saying they liked the old one. That will certainly be a topic of discussion early next week so I would love to hear some opinions either way in case there is a split.

Mimic
Last thought. This skill is for almost all intents and purposes just not working, but is causing some broken behavior with certain bosses. I would like to replace it with a complete redesign and am open to discussion on that as well.

Overall I think this a good small step for a profession that has a lot of roles it can fill fairly uniquely. I think this might give us 3 strong mesmer build archetypes.

1) Shatter
2) Phantasm
3) Mantra

I think right behind those are the interrupt shutdown mesmer and the signet mesmer, so future suggestions towards those are appreciated as well.

Thanks,

Jon

I understand not wanting to overload the autoattack, but, the way I see it, you can’t really compensate for an autoattack’s weakness using the other skills in a set. IMO, it’s critically important that the autoattacks on all weapons be carefully balanced against one another and allowed to act as the primary source of sustained DPS, with the other skills being more specialized and tactical in nature. Weapons with weak autoattacks are going to feel much weaker overall than weapons with strong autoattacks, and there really isn’t that much that can be done about that short of making every other skill egregiously OP (which would just be awkward and silly). This has been the main problem with several weapon (mostly ranged) sets since launch including Mesmer/Guardian Scepter, Thief/Engi Pistol, Warrior/Ranger Longbow, etc.

I would strongly, strongly recommend doing a review pass of every autoattack in the game and making sure they are all performing in roughly the same league with one another, then focus on playing around with other skills. Buffing Vital Shot would magically fix most of P/P’s (and P/D’s) problems that people have complained about since launch that the ‘buff’ to Body Shot predictably didn’t resolve.

I actually find mesmer to be the one class where the auto attack does not have to be the primary source of DPS, due to the fact that we cannot spec out of illusions, and illusions is the main damage source.

Not going to discuss actual viability of mantra builds, but if any class is going to pull off using mantra builds, it has to be the mesmer, because we don’t need to race against the clock with auto-attacks, unlike other classes where any moment not spent attacking is time spent not fighting.

JonPeters.5630:

Gilburt.9146:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Don’t limit this thought process to Elementalists. All classes have worthless traits.

Agreed.

Seconded. I know its terrible for me to admit this but I’d rather do that then pretend. You all are smart you know there are bad traits. This hurts build diversity and is just bad for new players who wont understand the mistakes they are making. It is high on the balance priority list. Just remember that we have limited time and so will make what we think are the most impactful changes first.

Jon

Honest question. How is Confounding Suggestions a “most impactful change?”

It’s about time we get alternatives to deceptive evasion, too.

Ryan.8367:

Xaylin.1860:

skcamow.3527:

• Domination XII – Confounding Suggestions. Changed to increase daze duration by 25%.
  I don’t like it. Dazes on Mesmers are so short it does not make any difference. Make it 50% or even 100% so it is worth the Grandmaster slot

• Dueling VI – Protected Mantras. Moved to Master Tier. Increase Toughness from 400 to 600.
  Wow. Fail. While perma-stability while recasting might be too strong they really should have thought about something else. The toughness does not help at all. Maybe projectile absorbtion or even reflection to reduce the interrupt sources?

• Dueling VII – Mantra Mastery. Moved to Adept Tier.
  I don’t care. This change is reasonable but it does not improve the viablity of Mantras.

• Chaos 25 – Chaotic Transference. Increased conversion from 5% to 10%.
  Nice.

• Chaos I – Chaotic Revival. Reduced cooldown from 35s to 10s.
  I couldn’t care less. Most downed or rally related traits are totally useless.

• Chaos VII – Mirror of Anguish. Reduced cooldown from 90s to 60s.
  I don’t care.

• Inspiration IV – Mender’s Purity. Now removes 2 conditions.
  Very nice and probably the best buff for Mantras in this whole patch.

• Inspiration XI – Shattered Conditions. Increased radius from 240 to 600.
  Very nice.

• Illusions VI – Illusionary Invigoration. Recharge reduced from 90s to 60s. Moved to Master Tier.
  Nice for shatter builds.

• Illusions VIII – Dazzling Galmours. Moved to Adept Tier.
  As Pyro said, doesn’t change anything. Glamour traits need to be re-designed regarding their functionality to make them useful again.

• Illusions 15 – Shattered Strength – Moved to Grandmaster tier.
• Illusions 25 – Illusionist’s Celerity – Moved to Master tier.
  Nice but I personally get along without it.

Regarding Vigor: They better don’t nerf our Vigor trait. Dodging is so important for Mesmers (damage mitigation and DE). Besides that, almost every class got this kind of trait. I don’t think they are going to nerf it.

Regarding Diamond Skin: Considering the small health pool of Elementalists it should not be that bad. I also think that condition Mesmers might be better of than Necros because of Scepter #3. However, Bunker Eles might become very very annoying for condition builds.

Uhm, Dodges are important for every class the problem is not every class gets access to: Distortion, decoy, blink, torch #4 , veil , mass invis, blurred frenzy , phase retreat, chaos armor , high aegis uptime as defensives and/or ways to avoid taking damage.

If you don’t think it’s just a little kittened up that every class got vigor/endurance regen nerfed except for guardians and mesmers, then I really don’t know what to say.

Rangers and thieves can dodge three times before needing to recharge.

Avigrus.2871:

There is nothing wrong with Mesmers… my guy dominates in WvW compared to other classes i play.

I guess you should be glad that the update brings no change to the mesmer meta…

Carighan.6758:

Zamiel.2130:

No other class in the game can have their attacks destroyed before they’ve done anything

Rangers, Necromancers, Engineers. Four out of 8 classes.

Necros and Engis can (and should!) completely opt out of AI builds. Mesmers and Rangers are really the only ones getting the short end of the stick here.

Crossplay.2067:

I feel you guys are looking at this the wrong way. It’s not so much that mesmer skills need to change (though if they brought back the glamour build, I would start playing again). It’s zerg vs zerg that needs to go. If they allowed scholar class AoEs to hit more than 5 opponents at once with reduced damage and/or effects, that could potentially disperse any zerg. Mesmers should be at the forefront of this tactic. While eles should do pure, raw damage and necros pass out conditions like they were cookies, we should be able to disrupt any unorganized blob so much that they’re not even sure what MMO they are playing.

This is not the correct way to view the situation. I just came from a 15 vs 30 where we dropped the bigger group in exactly 2 seconds. The tools are there for zerg busting to occur already. It’s just that mesmers weapon skills aren’t a part of it.

Most of those nerfs I don’t mind, but I personally felt the confusion damage nerf the most, as I used to be able to kill people 1v1 with my zergging glamour build before..

However, the problem with mesmers wasn’t really those nerfs. Those OP utility skills just made people overlook the real issues mesmers face, and it is that most of the weapon skills (including the main damage source phantasms) just plain doesn’t work. Never mind about whether they’re OP or UP, they aren’t even functional. Until they can work an acceptable workaround to the AI reliance, mesmer will always be sub par.

shimmerless.4560:

Heinel.6548:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Helios.3598:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

/grumble

Confounding Suggestions.. Ugh. I’d rather the stun. The daze duration synergizes beautifully with Runes of the Mesmer (which also needs a buff)

Yep, i knew you wouldn’t like that. Perhaps it’s an addition rather than a switch.

All of the changes are kind of awesome, but Confounding Suggestions barely merited Grandmaster as it is. What makes it so good is that the 50% stun chance makes it MUCH easier to chance down fleeing opponents as well as escape crappy situations. Increasing daze duration takes that away, but gives us the potential (w/Mesmer runes) for a near 2-second daze, making the DazeMantra -> OH SwordDaze -> DazeMantra combo into a beastly 6-second daze… assuming they don’t just run away from you.

I’d much rather them make the 25-point in Domination grant a 20% daze duration increase. The Confounding change is still barely grandmaster-worthy IMO, if its an addition to the stun chance, then it becomes freakin’ glorious and totally worth the 30 points.

If you are going to use the daze mantra as your main daze source, you will take the other GM trait instead, which gives you another cast. That is a 50% increase in duration, double of the new confounding suggestion.

The best skill to take advantage of the new CS is diversion (if it works), especially if coupled with shattered concentration to strip stability. It gives the normally rather glassy shatter builds another way to squeeze in a bit of a breathing room when the spike didn’t kill immediately. For people who care, it works. Personally I find it too much work for too little gain. Hammerstun warriors work better in group situations. Doubtful this will catch on.

In essence the defense you would gain from CS would be equally served by IP, as would the potential offensive capability (Wastrel’s + 100 power vs. an extra illusion on shatter). I think it’s a wash from a purely shatter PoV.

You could theoretically take both traits, or take both Confounding and imbued diversion. In havoc groups, Confounding, Imbued diversion can be useful. It’s niche, one I’d probably not bother with, but it’s there.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Helios.3598:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

/grumble

Confounding Suggestions.. Ugh. I’d rather the stun. The daze duration synergizes beautifully with Runes of the Mesmer (which also needs a buff)

Yep, i knew you wouldn’t like that. Perhaps it’s an addition rather than a switch.

All of the changes are kind of awesome, but Confounding Suggestions barely merited Grandmaster as it is. What makes it so good is that the 50% stun chance makes it MUCH easier to chance down fleeing opponents as well as escape crappy situations. Increasing daze duration takes that away, but gives us the potential (w/Mesmer runes) for a near 2-second daze, making the DazeMantra -> OH SwordDaze -> DazeMantra combo into a beastly 6-second daze… assuming they don’t just run away from you.

I’d much rather them make the 25-point in Domination grant a 20% daze duration increase. The Confounding change is still barely grandmaster-worthy IMO, if its an addition to the stun chance, then it becomes freakin’ glorious and totally worth the 30 points.

If you are going to use the daze mantra as your main daze source, you will take the other GM trait instead, which gives you another cast. That is a 50% increase in duration, double of the new confounding suggestion.

The best skill to take advantage of the new CS is diversion (if it works), especially if coupled with shattered concentration to strip stability. It gives the normally rather glassy shatter builds another way to squeeze in a bit of a breathing room when the spike didn’t kill immediately. For people who care, it works. Personally I find it too much work for too little gain. Hammerstun warriors work better in group situations. Doubtful this will catch on.

====

Overall pretty underwhelming updates. The half-unnerfing of IC is… soothing, but it basically just means Anet has accepted that the mesmer will always be dependent on this trait. I’d much rather they give us alternate means of sustaining illusions, and the GM inspiration trait slots could have filled that role.

I think it’s a bad idea for the line with all 3 minor traits dedicated to buffing phantasms to have only shatter GM traits. In fact they don’t even feel like viable traits themselves, but just something to sort of but not quite tide you over those times where your phantasm build just couldn’t keep phantasms up and you’re forced to shatter.

I’d like to see one of the traits (probably restorative illusions) reworked to automatically restore a phantasm upon shatter with something, maybe a bunk phantasmal something, maybe something else, that allow us to continue to chain illusions, without having to re-conjure (and hence dependent on IC).

The only thing that makes a difference on the mesmer changes seemed to be the illusion cooldown trait (so you agree it was over-nerfed before). However, merely moving it down seems like a cop out (see paragraph 4).

Confounding suggestions finally makes a difference and adds another do-or-bust build, but since daze doesn’t hinder movement, it is sub-par compared to what some other classes have. If this also applies to stuns, on the other hand…

Mender’s purity looks like a lure for people to take mantra of recovery. The underlying issues of mantras are not addressed. I think it’d be more helpful if we are told what the mantra mechanic is supposed to achieve, other than “something different.”

I personally have issues about inspiration line only having shatter grandmaster traits. It is, afterall, the phantasm line. I prefer a trait that help us recover from having to shatter valuable phantasms. And I don’t mean just giving them lower recharge, but a different way for us to juggle this resource, preferably without having to re-conjure. Something like a phantasmal knight to replace shattered phantasms immediately after shatter so we can continue to take advantage of all those inspiration minor traits could work.

So tempting……. :o

I think Liadri is Livia in disguise, to challenge and recruit new champions for the krytan throne.

DevonCarver.5370:

akanibbles.6237:

Allisa Wonderland.8192:

IDEA: auto teamups of the two trailing teams

When leading team score > (2nd + 3rd) / modifier then 2nd and 3rd become automatically allied and/or gain bonuses for attacking the leading team.

I like this idea. Too often the 3rd place team drops off and has no effect on the game other than to stop the 2nd place team be competitive to the 1st place team.

This is an intriguing concept. The original idea behind WvW was that this would happen of its own accord, but I haven’t seen that in practice. I think it could be much more of a part of the game if there were a way to do this. Would it make more sense to provide increased score from this or to increase the individual rewards? I would lean slightly towards the latter. I also wonder if it would work to be really heavy handed about it and actually put the two losing servers on the same team. Of course, that presents numerous problems including score tracking at that juncture. But I would think we can find some sort of system that encourages servers to work together to defeat a bigger server.

The problem with this is that in the more competitive matches, breaking the other servers’ morale is the point of the game. Fights are generally long drawn out and causes a lot of fatigue for everyone, until one side decided that enough is enough and gave up.

The game mechanics does not allow for one side to be defeated until the match ends, so winning and losing depends on morale management of each server’s leadership. That’s what’s holding the game mode together in T1 IMO.

Therefore, if you are going to introduce mechanics that minimize the morale management aspect of the game, I hope you’d also consider implementing a defeat mechanic together at the same time.

Thedenofsin.7340:

I think it is blatantly obvious now that ‘anti-toxin spray’ is an example of the new skills being introduced.

So don’t get your hopes up, folks.

It’s one of the ways.

I personally hope to see more racial skills. At least avatar forms for all human gods would be nice.

Kaleban.9834:

Heinel.6548:

I never said Scarlet wasn’t a Mary Sue. I said Trahearne wasn’t. You, however, flip flopped between characters.

Because I can multitask. And I argued that Trahearne COULD be considered one, but not from backstory as is Scarlet, but via development during the personal story.

He’s a bookish nerd handed a magic sword and told to go cleanse Orr, and all of his personality flaws such as uncertainty and self-doubt evaporate and he succeeds quite handily, with some small help from the player. Let us not forget that one of the accoutrements of the Marty Stu is the:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CoolSword

In fact, Trahearne may just be epitomized by the Geeky Stu archetype.

You are still undermining your own claims. Trahearne couldn’t use the Caladbolg for battle any better than the player characters can, and he dies to trash mobs. Most of his abilities are in line with his scholarly/necromancy/sylvari origin. Aside from a thoroughly mechanical, uninspiring rally speech, his only accomplishment in leadership is appointing the player character as commander. He also didn’t die in the end, and hence not finishing the cycle as per the Mary Sue archetype.

I’m not saying Trahearne’s characterization is not without its own problems, but claiming things he is not is really not helping things here.

I’ve always felt that the current challenge, story-wise, the devs face is that there’s a conundrum in the protagonist’s role. The main hero is supposed to be the player character, but it appears Anet does not want to write them into the story.

Unlike TV episodes, the audience in an MMO is supposed to be an active participant in the story. I think many players expected that, hence the disappointment in the personal story. At least that was a one off thing, but then we come to the living story and the same problem rises up again.

We’ve seen new attempts in other directions, such as Braham and Rox, that attempt to divert the player’s attention away from their own characters but so far that has been uninteresting and ineffective. Okay, maybe the characters were just too undeveloped. Let’s introduce a memorable archetype like Scarlet. Hmm. I’m not sure if I could count her as a success. I suspect Scarlet, too, will be forgotten after her story arc ends.

The solution, I think, is to put the players back in to the protagonist’s role again, with a small caveat—the protagonists of the living story from now on are only referred to as one of the agents in the three orders. This may run somewhat contrary to the personal heroism GW2 is trying to portray, but as we have already seen, you cannot have just one hero in a massively multi-player game. Each players deserve to have their moment to shine, but the game world should be built with multi-player in mind. Once we get over this, more systems can be developed in place for players to get together (via the orders) and bridge the gap between solo’ing in the open world, and Tequatl.

In order to get to that point, each order needs to be iterated on and build to become organizations that players want to be a part of. There is a problem with the different orders having different specializations (The order of whispers frontlining tequatl doesn’t make much sense). Another problem is that the personal story is optional and there currently isn’t another way to join an order. I think these are all problems that can be overcome in future releases, whether via joint operations between orders, or have each future releases be designed in such a way that each of the three specialization have its place. The personal story up until initiation into an order may become mandatory for unlocking LS (also serves as an extended tutorial), and the rest of it scraped and replaced by living story releases.

The new orders can also serve as character development post-lv80, and rising in ranks should prepare players for greater challenges (hopefully not via stat increases). Once this has been taken care of, players will have a much firmer foothold in the game world, and get their sense of permanent progression that they currently expect from the LS updates, even though that isn’t what the current LS updates offer.

I’d rather just have a new weapon (like a whip!) that is designed from the ground up to be tagging friendly.

You could also use the counting method. Many boss abilities are used in set intervals. You can anticipate them. It also helps to look at which person the boss is facing. In any case many attacks are probably going to be very difficult to see if you melee. If you are in an unfamiliar encounter, it helps to stay at range and check out what all the permutations are. Once you know what’s going to happen then watching for it becomes not as difficult.

Kaleban.9834:

Heinel.6548:

This is making less sense by the word. A character that is smarter than everyone is a genius, not a Mary Sue. Otherwise, every major Asuran character would be a Mary Sue.

While most Mary Sues are portrayed as intelligent, that is because high intelligence is a desirable trait. Mary Sues are characterized as someone who is idealized to the point of being unrealistic. It takes more than just generic “smarts” for that.

Ok, look into Scarlet’s backstory. She’s smarter than every Asuran genius. She’s better at every race’s “hat” than the entire race itself. She has perfect tactical and strategic awareness. Even the efforts of the players seemingly work into her grand and vast designs.

While the term Mary Sue may originally have meant someone who is perfect AND the supporting cast idealized her for it (see also: The Wesley) in common vernacular it has come to mean any extremely overpowered character that is better than everyone else at everything.

If you’re going to keep arguing the opposite, at least know the character you’re arguing over first.

I never said Scarlet wasn’t a Mary Sue. I said Trahearne wasn’t. You, however, flip flopped between characters.

I thought the undead has always been there? When it says Tequatl’s presence remains, it’s refering to those fish-head-shaped landmines. It in no way hinders map complete or map enjoyment. The place is otherwise completely empty and uninteresting.

This is making less sense by the word. A character that is smarter than everyone is a genius, not a Mary Sue. Otherwise, every major Asuran character would be a Mary Sue.

While most Mary Sues are portrayed as intelligent, that is because high intelligence is a desirable trait. Mary Sues are characterized as someone who is idealized to the point of being unrealistic. It takes more than just generic “smarts” for that.

DarkWasp.7291:

riddleguy.9738:

What do you guys hope the tower of nightmares will bring? I personally hope it brings some soloable story instances. Those are my favorite part of the LS releases.

Same. I like solo content that is relatively challenging.

When I overcome it I can feel accomplished rather than just having that excuse: “Oh the other 4 people in my party FINALLY figured it out.”

or

“I felt really carried that time.”

That’s actually what I liked about gw1 pve. I did my hardmode mission and vanquishing titles by myself with hero and hench. It’s fun to experiment and nail that perfect build combo that clears the area with minimal micro-managment. I can do that on my own schedule and don’t have to put up with having to deal with others.

Kaleban.9834:

lordkrall.7241:

Why assume it will marginalize or trivialize old skills?
We have more or less NO information about this new skin, so why assume it will not be balanced?

People have been asking for new skills since the game was released more or less, and this is the first one.

Because logic. For it to be taken over other professions’ native heals it has to be more powerful or offer options that the standard skills don’t. That’s called powercreep, and its one of the things that trivialized GW1 content with the EoTN PvE only skills.

I really don’t understand why ANet spends so much time adding more junk to the game instead of balancing and streamlining the already awesome content that exists now. The utopia of all professions being bug-free and balanced is certainly more enticing than another healing skill.

I don’t see any logic here. All I see is your assumption that skills are only added to the game if they trivialize profession skills. This assumption is inconsistent with racial skills, which is part of reality. Therefore your post is inconsistent with reality, hence must be false.

Before the discussion continues I’d like to clarify a few things with everyone.

First, there is no such thing as running out of lore. Everyone who has written q story can tell you that anything, absolutely everything can be expanded upon indefinitely if you continue to work on the details. This is especially true as Anet has demonstrated they are not above retroactive amendments with the Halloween story arc.

Second, running out of dragons to slay is not a concern, for two reasons. One, each dragon has its own aspect that they represent. These aspects can be elements, like primordius or jormag, but also abstractions, like kralkatorik. This allows for potentially an infinite number of dragons to exist. People will get bored of killing dragons before they run out. Second, if they decide to end the dragon menace, it will be perfectly acceptable for new story drivers to replace that void, in fact that would allow for more creative freedom. The Winds of Change story arc in gw1 happened at a time where the world is not on the verge of collapse and it was one of Anet’s more solid attempt at storytelling.

So please don’t cite “lore pacing” as justification for stagnant story lines any more. It is a myth and it dies right here.

You mightvwant to read the wiki article again. Trahearne was never portrayed as having exceptional skill in everything. In fact we are exposed to more of his flaws than his strengths.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

Imo I like the LS lore so far, Scarlet is a perfect villian coming from me who likes anime like One Piece.

I don’t think that’s a fair comparison.

One Piece’s major villains aren’t even characters at all. From the beginning before the first episode starts, you are immediately told what the hero’s goals are. It’s the quest for the pirate king’s treasure. Straight from the beginning, before you even know who or what the heroes are, you already have the end point planted in the back of your mind (even if it isn’t what you think it is). Most of the hardships the heroes face are the situations they find themselves in while pursuing that very specific goal, and the nature of the journey necessitates them keep running into new characters that may or may not be villains or allies. However, at any point, there’s a very clear direction the group is heading towards.

The audience are never left feeling lost or not sure what they’re supposed to be doing (Duh, the goal is repeated before every episode). This is the baseline requirement for an engaging story. If the pirate king’s treasure turned out to not be what one traditionally think a “treasure” is supposed to mean, well that’s another layer that makes the story deep. Not this we-aren’t-gonna-tell-nothing-because-SECRET bullkitten.

The biggest mistakes Anet writers made IMO is they erroneously assumed people are naturally inquisitive and will want to find out what is being hidden from them. The reality is that for a story to be heard by the majority, you have to compel people to listen to it, by FORCE. It’s an art to make people go from not care to care, an art Anet has so far demonstrated themselves to be impotent at. I’m not saying there can’t be hidden easter eggs and what not for lore enthusiasts to find out about, those can happen in the background. However, for major LS releases, they are not doing a good job at all at marketing their story.

Rednik.3809:

Lord Kuru.3685:

Someone in full ascended with guard leech and applied fortitude will have a very large stats advantage over you if you meet him one on one. That’s the direction this game is going.

It’s minor advantage. Coordination and good commanding >>>>> ascended.

It might be a long time down the road, but eventually, there will be zergs composed almost entirely of fully ascended, with all stacks available characters. If you think 1 ascended guy is no big deal, wait till you meet 40 of them.

There currently isn’t a blockade type mechanism in game. Maybe ballistas can be upgraded to become a line of defense?

Making the guild lord weaker after rez also won’t change anything. Even SMC lord gets bursted down in 5 seconds flat without any sort of penalty. The cap timer resets every time the lord is revived is what enables people to draw out the fight.

Chess Jurist.3580:

Rainshine.5493:

Chess Jurist.3580:

I dunno what you guys are complaining about. Got the achievement in a week and played about 2 hours everyday.

There’s a big difference between “difficult” and tedious, unproductive grind. Perhaps if you actually read the thread you’d know what “we guys are complaining about.”

I still don’t get why people feel the urge to comment on kitten they don’t read.

I’m not sure why you are criticizing me. Correct me if I’m wrong, but my post clearly states that the achievements aren’t difficult nor tedious, as it’s achievable even with average game play.

Average selfish game play. If you ignore what everyone else is doing and just focus on your own objectives, the achievements can indeed be cleared fairly quickly. However, for a server to succeed in the war effort, it needs all its players to be on the same page, working towards specific goals that often do not align with the most efficient way of clearing these achievements.

In lower tiers, where people don’t care about winning anyways, this is not much of an issue. However, in competitive servers, especially the ones in tiers where queues are the norm, they really need every single player to pull their own weight (or give space to people who would). There has been consistent friction on this point since seasons started.

As it is, the current achievement reward structure reward PvEers way more than actual WvWers. Each achievement hound only need to spend 2 days to fill their own meta. However, the server as a whole has to lose more than 60% of all available play time in season 1 to all the tourists that clog up the maps. This does not bode well for the longevity of the play mode.

I thought it was just fewer people hammering the servers due to the first week coming to an end. Is it still good after reset?

Would be funny to see lava font might stacking killed your own zerg accidentally? Otherwise not sure what this accomplishes.

Omne.4603:

achievement points that take 2 days to finish

Unlike PvE, actions in WvW matter not just to yourself. Just by being on the map, you are influencing everyone else participating in the effort.

2 days of achievement hunting per person is 12000 days from 6000 people (assuming that’s the average number of players per server). The leagues last 7 weeks, that’s 49 days. Assuming the maps can handle 100 people per server, and there’re 4 maps. That’s 19600 league hours available for players. More than 60% of all leagues play time available for players are spent on achievement hunting.

—

It’s not just once or twice that I see half the zerg squatting on a sentry point when the commanders called repeatedly for all hands on deck for a keep defense. The lord has already been bursted down and we only have a handful of players at the scene to hold the cap circle. Each of those players have to sacrifice themselves to buy the zerg a mere few seconds each. Every single second counts. It’s unacceptable that people would waste 20+ of those precious seconds for stupid Achievement points. This is in T1, arguably the most competitive of all leagues. The lower tiers are probably experiencing frostgorge champ train level of farming. It’s gross.

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

Heinel,you are Ex snip

Shamefull history. You do realize most of the people leave because they cannot put up with your passive aggressive comments (directed at guildies, no less), right? No matter. I’m glad to be relieved of your toxic existence.

Anyway. Enough of that. We aren’t in the same league now. May our paths never cross again.

Rainshine.5493:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

Rainshine.5493:

The problem is that to get it completed this quickly, it’s highly likely you weren’t actually providing optimal support to your server.

IE, killing dolyaks when it didn’t matter. Repairing random things before building siege that provides much stronger immediate defense. Doing merc camps rather than helping defend. Doing JPs which contributes absolutely nothing.

You didn’t read my first post.
Using a ranger,I’ve assisted in the capture of stonemist more than 5 times,7keeps,more than 30 towers,more than100 supply camps,150+sentries,defended these important structures because they cost so much to upgrade and it gives quality of life when playing with WP in keep and SMC,killed and stomped more than 450 invaders. All in less 3 days, you say I don’t contribute to my server score? All the above helps the server score.

And how many veterans did you tag to give away the position of your group? How many times did you hit the gate when asked not to because it puts orange swords up?

I’m not saying you can’t help your server by doing some of these activities. I’m saying to do it in 3 days, there’s no way you were contributing the most you could for all the time you spent in there.

Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been running on a pin — smallish group, maybe 15-20 people — and commander says in TS “Don’t attack sentry”, we type in say “Don’t attack sentry” for those not on TS … and what inevitably happens? People attack the sentry, because … achievements.

Can’t tell you how many times you lose half your force at capture points when you’re trying to move quickly because … achievements.

Can’t tell you how many times people won’t let supply points upgrade because they’re draining it to repair things that aren’t essential. Because … achievements.

Can’t tell you how many times commander says “no PvDoor” in TS, we type in say “no PvDoor, we don’t want swords” and what do people do? They PvDoor because … achievements.

Forcing really big numbers for this stuff promotes selfish, unhelpful and stupid play. It could be heavily mitigated by reducing the number of overall achievements required OR allowing WvW dailies to count toward it, the way Living World achievements do.

KeeZee.7312:

1) Best time to get the repair achievement is when a wall is being trebbed. Just drain all the supply to get the achievement. The best place to do this is EB if you can get in. Don’t worry if draining all the supply allows the keep to fall. That will just allow you to get other achievements by taking it back.

Some of your fellow achievers have already realised this.

2) The best way to get the capture objectives it to sit on siege and do nothing allowing the other team to flip your T3 keep. Once flipped your team will flip it back allowing you to get those achievements.

3) Demolition…easy. When your team goes to take a keep and says don’t attack the gate/wall just ignore them and attack away. Don’t worry about the orange swords.

LMAO! Spot on.

Quote for truth. I find the keep flipping one problematic as well, as when servers are evenly matched, keeps simply shouldn’t flip at all. In the current T1 match up, keeps only ever fall when one of the server falters to a 2v1, which is very rare. 10 flips in 3 days are simply not possible unless it’s a blowout pvdoor karma train. That should never be rewarded.

To actually reward strategic claiming of keeps, or any other actions, for that matter, they should have given us a set of WvW specific dailies that is server wide, and everyone contributes to that one goal for the day, rather than each farming their own APs.

If they want the player base to bring WvW to the next level, they need to stop attracting PvE tourists whose goals never aligned with the server to begin with.

Rainshine.5493:

Verdelet Arconia.6987:

Rainshine.5493:

The problem is that to get it completed this quickly, it’s highly likely you weren’t actually providing optimal support to your server.

IE, killing dolyaks when it didn’t matter. Repairing random things before building siege that provides much stronger immediate defense. Doing merc camps rather than helping defend. Doing JPs which contributes absolutely nothing.

You didn’t read my first post.
Using a ranger,I’ve assisted in the capture of stonemist more than 5 times,7keeps,more than 30 towers,more than100 supply camps,150+sentries,defended these important structures because they cost so much to upgrade and it gives quality of life when playing with WP in keep and SMC,killed and stomped more than 450 invaders. All in less 3 days, you say I don’t contribute to my server score? All the above helps the server score.

And how many veterans did you tag to give away the position of your group? How many times did you hit the gate when asked not to because it puts orange swords up?

I’m not saying you can’t help your server by doing some of these activities. I’m saying to do it in 3 days, there’s no way you were contributing the most you could for all the time you spent in there.

Can’t tell you how many times I’ve been running on a pin — smallish group, maybe 15-20 people — and commander says in TS “Don’t attack sentry”, we type in say “Don’t attack sentry” for those not on TS … and what inevitably happens? People attack the sentry, because … achievements.

Can’t tell you how many times you lose half your force at capture points when you’re trying to move quickly because … achievements.

Can’t tell you how many times people won’t let supply points upgrade because they’re draining it to repair things that aren’t essential. Because … achievements.

Can’t tell you how many times commander says “no PvDoor” in TS, we type in say “no PvDoor, we don’t want swords” and what do people do? They PvDoor because … achievements.

Forcing really big numbers for this stuff promotes selfish, unhelpful and stupid play. It could be heavily mitigated by reducing the number of overall achievements required OR allowing WvW dailies to count toward it, the way Living World achievements do.

KeeZee.7312:

1) Best time to get the repair achievement is when a wall is being trebbed. Just drain all the supply to get the achievement. The best place to do this is EB if you can get in. Don’t worry if draining all the supply allows the keep to fall. That will just allow you to get other achievements by taking it back.

Some of your fellow achievers have already realised this.

2) The best way to get the capture objectives it to sit on siege and do nothing allowing the other team to flip your T3 keep. Once flipped your team will flip it back allowing you to get those achievements.

3) Demolition…easy. When your team goes to take a keep and says don’t attack the gate/wall just ignore them and attack away. Don’t worry about the orange swords.

LMAO! Spot on.

Quote for truth. I find the keep flipping one problematic as well, as when servers are evenly matched, keeps simply shouldn’t flip at all. In the current T1 match up, keeps only ever fall when one of the server falters to a 2v1, which is very rare. 10 flips in 3 days are simply not possible unless it’s a blowout pvdoor karma train. That should never be rewarded.

To actually reward strategic claiming of keeps, or any other actions, for that matter, they should have given us a set of WvW specific dailies that are easy to fill, but requires people to stay in WvW for many days. For each day, you can choose a number of activities that will be the server’s goal for the day and everyone do their best to fulfill that goal. Make it completely separate from PVE and decouple it from the Achievement point system. If they want the player base to bring WvW to the next level, they need to stop attracting PvE tourists whose goals never aligned with the server to begin with.

Aneirin Cadwall.9126:

Heinel.6548:

It doesn’t really do anything Entangle doesn’t already do, so it’s really not that big of a deal.

…except that Entangle is an elite on a giant cooldown.

When the zergs clash you only really have one shot at it. If you get stuck you die, if you get away you live and are very unlikely to be caught again any time soon. A thief who chases after you spamming body shot will likely die before you do, unless you take a wrong turn and lose the commander, in which case any auto attack can mow you down regardless.

Snake logging chainsaw!

Reverence.6915:

You know, Bloodlust buff was introduced for that reason. My server has around 35-40% of our points purely from spiking downed players and not from PPT.

Doesn’t address the fact that scouts get nothing for watching paint dry. You should have heard our commanders begging for scouts on comms…

Mastruq.2463:

The guy plays WvW every day according to his own post.. probably has done so for months. I’d call that a WvW regular. Who cares about his reason as long as he pulls his weight? He certainly seems goal-oriented enough to contribute in whatever part of the map he is.

A lot of the activities in the achievements panel can be detrimental to PPT success if committed in the wrong time.

That said, not every server are fighting for 1st in leagues, and the achievements are very well suited for that.

I actually hope they don’t add new dungeons, and instead roll dungeon updates (a la TA) to existing ones. There are enough fracturing of the player base as is and some dungeon paths are nigh impossible to find a party for.

I hope people will soon realize that in that other MMO, whenever new content is released, old ones are also rendered obsolete and phased out for the primary player base.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Heinel.6548:

Bhima.9518:

Doesn’t the Ranger’s Healing Spring already do something like this and isn’t limited to just a few of the conditions and is also a water field that can be blasted? The sky really isn’t falling here people.

Was about to post this. People who claim this one healing skill (which doesn’t even cleanse bleed) would change anything in WvW clearly have no idea what is going on and are just fear-mongering due to ignorance.

Next thing you will see is a weapon skill usable by all classes instead of any weapon skill…

My problem with it is not that it will become new game changer, its that everybody can equip it. Making 8 new different heal skills one for each class would be perfectly acceptable for me. Making one skill for everyone simply isn’t.

It is quite likely that this is a skill that’s only useful in that krait tower. There will probably be some sort of storyline thing where someone goes in there, dies to toxin, then someone else will start researching it and give you this skill so you can get inside and do something.

Think of this as a collector’s item, coming in the form of a skill. You can bring it to battle if you want, just like you can bring minipets. If you don’t like it, it doesn’t take up an inventory slot.

Marquie Thomas.1873:

What ranger actually takes that selfish grand-master trait and that pet handicapped signit you give up a tone of dmg for that small bit of condition removal. and a guardian can do that even better with absolute resolution tacked on if the guardian is packing lyssa runes and Renewed Focus elite he can easy eat conditions alive

Solo roamers, obviously.

If you are talking about group play, then your complaint really holds no water. People already have to bunch up for blast heals, and you will get stability from your guardians. Healing Spring is the absolute best healing skill across all classes in a group comp outside of sPvP. A ranger is worth taking for just this and Entangle alone (as long as they aren’t bearbow).

Bhima.9518:

Doesn’t the Ranger’s Healing Spring already do something like this and isn’t limited to just a few of the conditions and is also a water field that can be blasted? The sky really isn’t falling here people.

Was about to post this. People who claim this one healing skill (which doesn’t even cleanse bleed) would change anything in WvW clearly have no idea what is going on and are just fear-mongering due to ignorance.

Oooh. 30/20/0/20/0 with mantras seems like it’d go well with the pistol/focus condi phantasm build~

It even have space for veil, should be good for roaming groups.

It doesn’t really do anything Entangle doesn’t already do, so it’s really not that big of a deal.