Guild Wars 2

An already broken class becomes more broken in spvp and wvw.

Thanks for the balance update.

One thing really sticks out as a problem, though. Warriors were comically broken in the amount of sustain they had while still doing damage in spvp and wvw before, and to my eyes their only change was increasing their damage.

What if it’s someone trolling all of us and everything said is fabricated?

I’d rather like to see new wvw achievements. Spvp has around twice as many as wvw.

A few people asked to let it play out to see what happens. For the past two weeks TC has basically not played in T1 and will gain glicko points each of the two weeks.

This is exacerbated by the fact JQ has rolled into T2 each week and shed glicko points to FA and SoS. T2 is a good fight, but I think we can agree that T1 is not a good matchup.

Since 5-4-3 wants to push each tier closer to each other, it makes it difficult to move tiers.

Many had argued that 5-4-3 would better show the quality of servers, but this is clearly not working out with TC gaining glicko and solidifying themselves in T1 despite not having a good couple weeks.

This Friday are the new linkings, and this problem is only going to get worse.

So going back to my original post: can we please change back to either 2-1-1, or something that behaves very much like 2-1-1? (100-55-45, for example)

Changing from a glicko system to anything else is going to require a lot of development time for very little actual gain. Restoring a scoring system that allows for good matchups can be done now with almost no development time needed besides changing a number in a table.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

Motoko.2361:

How many players in gw2 have MAXIMUM skill in all crafting skills?

I did an informal survey and I have found the following.

1 or 2 people say they have max skill.

Everybody else says absolutely NOTHING.

This is amazing research, you should consider publishing this.

Someone else beat him to it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

trueanimus.4085:

Hesacon.8735:

It wasn’t, you got rolled into T1 by dumb luck and gained glicko points from maguuma and blackgate by virtue of the scoring system.

With the scoring changed to 5-4-3, maguuma only has 41% more points than tarnished coast. As such, they lost glicko points to a server they otherwise blew out. Had the scoring remained at 2-1-1, maguuma would have had 55% more points than TC, and black gate 24% more.

TC would not have gained the 30 glicko points they gained, but the newest scoring system has a mathematical quirk where it will make the same match up more likely each week.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Please-don-t-change-scoring-to-5-4-3

so… you are saying if we dont even play at all.. I mean totally quit… we will be the top server in a few weeks?

This makes NO sense.. we dont even have enough people to que a map… and yet they open BG and mag both for more xfers… yet TC is locked, doesnt play, loses by scores of 8000 to less than 1000 and we GAIN glicko?

Seriously.. you cant tell me that the programmers are THAT bad at math

http://mos.millenium.org/na/matchups

TC gained 36 glicko points this week. It doesn’t help that JQ got steamrolled in T2, which as someone on SoS surprised me since the last time we played it went the other way around.

But yes, TC lost hard and gained glicko because of how the skirmish scoring works and the change from 2-1-1 to 5-4-3 exacerbated the problem for reasons discussed in the thread I linked.

It wasn’t, you got rolled into T1 by dumb luck and gained glicko points from maguuma and blackgate by virtue of the scoring system.

With the scoring changed to 5-4-3, maguuma only has 41% more points than tarnished coast. As such, they lost glicko points to a server they otherwise blew out. Had the scoring remained at 2-1-1, maguuma would have had 55% more points than TC, and black gate 24% more.

TC would not have gained the 30 glicko points they gained, but the newest scoring system has a mathematical quirk where it will make the same match up more likely each week.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Please-don-t-change-scoring-to-5-4-3

I like the idea of locking classes, but what would be nice is if there was a functional “saved builds” button, so that people didn’t have to frantically try to change the build of their selected class to try to make up for some team composition deficiency.

For example, a healing Druid might want to change to a power or condition build if there are say two tempests on the team.

From the sounds of it, you’re not locking builds, but the countdown timer isn’t enough to get a feel for how everyone else is built and adjust yourself accordingly.

Being able to quickly cycle through a couple builds by clicking a button would alleviate some of the frustration this might cause.

Plus it has been a quality of life suggestion since GW2 was launched and other game modes could take advantage of it.

I don’t watch my rubies since I only go to bloodstone fen for the dailies, but the spvp and wvw rewards tracks award 50. 14 days of just doing the dailies, not counting the rewards tracks advancing from playing.

The rewards for raids could be changed to something that’s not a terrible deal per unit time and maybe more people would raid.

Fractals are not that much easier than raids but offer far better rewards, but it’s super easy to find pug groups for T4 fractals.

Raids? It takes weeks to build up enough currency for items easier to get elsewhere in the game. RNG on drops only works when you can clear a lot of things, one or two bosses doesn’t cut it.

Plague is good in zergs i wvw and not anywhere else.

I’ve found myself going racial elites on necro because the class ones are so bad.

I, too, have been waiting on the balance patch before committing to new wvw builds. I am kind of treading water at the moment.

Siege is fine if both sides are of comparable strength. This is just a matchmaking disaster.

I don’t know how much time you’ve spent in Verdant Brink, but there’s a lot of Wyverns flying around and they’re mean.

It’s almost exclusively White Mantle and allies that use profession skills, for example Braham will use guardian skills.

I do think it adds to the immersion of the game. When we were fighting Risen they were basically zombies and Mordrem were their own thing. White Mantle are humans, so it should be expected they use skills available to humans.

What might be cool is to go back and retrofit to some degree other playable races with some skills, like nightmare court and inquest.

I go marauder’s on my necro in T4 fractals and have no issues with pugs. You also have to keep in mind if you’re downed, your DPS level tanks.

Raids are a different beast because you’re not all that responsible for your own survivability, so the added vitality isn’t so important. But I don’t think anyone would scream bloody murder if you know what you’re doing.

That said, exotic berserker’s gear is dirt cheap from wvw vendors.

In about 1050 wvw levels, I got a 25,000 point keg once (5 levels). It was a happy day, there’s something oddly satisfying about it.

But my guess is your server is just performing better than normal and you’ve positioned yourself to be in the middle of the action.

I enjoy the underwater parts of wvw. It’s interesting to see who you can convince to fight you there.

That said, if you know your build is not going to work in the water, your situational awareness should keep you from it. Other than maybe Bay, there is no contested water areas in wvw, so I hesitate to spend much in the way of resources on it. Even in Bay I’ve only ever seen zergs move in straight lines as fast as they can between shores.

I just think it adds an extra dimension to the game mode that you can choose to ignore if it’s not your thing. If you’re worried about being pulled into the water in some way, treat it like all those instant death falls both Alpine and Desert borderlands have.

ElvisMcRanft.8569:

So, basically – best DPS for that spec would be using Dagger + Warhorn and switch to a Greatsword at 50% and spam gravedigger?
Thanks for your research btw!

Alt-weapon for dagger doesn’t contribute a lot to DPS. Warhorn has a hard cc for break bars and some AoEness. Focus can strip boons and stack vulnerability. Dagger can transfer conditions and corrupt boons. So it’s very much fight dependent.

You also have to remember that Axe has something dagger and greatsword don’t have – range. Some fights are hostile to melee for a variety of reasons (AoEs, bosses that teleport) and axe will outperform either weapon because it’s always hitting and you’re not chasing an enemy.

And still, the question still has time tho, Valkyrie’s or Berserker’s?

Depends on your crit rate. With 50% crit rate from vulnerability, Valkyrie would technically be the same as berserker’s, but never higher. But do your enemies have a full stack of vulnerability for your preferred game mode and party composition?

If you’re taking Valkyrie’s for the vitality, marauder’s is a better choice for DPS while still getting vitality.

Justine.6351:

I like the desert borderland as a getaway from alpine borderland. A map doesn’t need to be pinacle or anything to be viable. We have just enjoyed for so long the amazing ABL that everything that falls short is called trash. Variety is a good option to have and I hope they do continue to work on the DBL.

This.

It also has to be considered if DBL went away, no resources would be put into future maps. As much as I love wvw, if it were exactly the same each week I’d quickly get bored.

I was able to solo complete the Caudecus fight before they just changed it on my necro. It was not an easy fight and I had told guild mates they should consider finding a group if they hadn’t done it yet.

The amount of bouncing around I did was borderline insane and I had to kill two jade bows mid-fight. If I wasn’t in my wvw gear I don’t think I could’ve done it.

Players complained about movement challenges to a map, and anet has done major changes twice now. They complained about bloodlust and got it.

There’s no pleasing some people.

I wouldn’t be upset if there were more achievements (pvp has about twice as many AP last time I looked), but at the end of the day we’re getting a fairly steady stream of incremental improvements. It’s not as sexy as a big flashy update, but if you look at the big picture, a lot has changed in the last year.

Dawdler.8521:

It would be literal chaos because your opponents shift so fast you will barely see them.

A major charm of WvW is the extended battle against specific servers… or rather, the war. The community thrive in this environment, not in EoTM style matches. Just something as simple as reset night is a foundation that keep WvW going at a steady pace, week in and week out. We look forward to it and we work toward it, then the cycle repeats.

With EoTM matchups, WvW degrade into a hot join hybrid where no one will care about the server as a whole, they are just there to win “their” 3h match and then they are off.

This. Often you’re not just playing for a time slot, you’re trying to help out the next one. This could be by papering some objective so the next group has an easier time attacking it, or running yaks and defending objectives so it’s easier for the next group.

This sort of forward thinking is part of the charm of wvw. What you do will change how the game is played hours, or even days, after you’ve done a thing.

I killed it tonight. At first it looked like it was a royal pushover, but the mechanics are different and it semi-reset to 50% twice. We figured it out after a minute or two and moved on with our day.

I wouldn’t say it’s easier or harder, but there is a mechanics change.

They were always supposed to be… rare. Hopefully you saved some.

Really though an AB meta now, including the pre events is still likely to yield 10-12 rares if you loot the smaller chests. Teq drops 3-4 rares, silverwastes 4 (breach + vinewrath), LW3 maps have a non-trivial amount of rares.

There’s plenty of opportunity to get them, it’s just in a less hardcore grindy way and in a more spaced out farmy way.

Anet has the ability to adjust skills for pve, pvp, and wvw and has done so. The mechanics for all three are different. Some skills have 3 different versions, one for each game mode.

There’s a non-trivial backlog of ectos people have been sitting on. It might be a few weeks until prices rise in a significant way.

Another token using up an inventory space? Come on, inventory management is bad enough. This alone means once I finish the episode and map I’ll salvage the stones and just not come back. It’s not worth the aggravation of death by a thousand paper cuts inventory clogging items.

Fay.2357:

That being said, you’re operating under the assumption that large and rapid swings in glicko rating is a desired outcome of the scoring system. This is not an appropriate assumption to make. In fact, I would argue that you’re going in the entirely wrong direction with that assumption. The glicko system itself contains a variety of levers that can be adjusted to change how it reacts to inputs. Your complaint, that the glicko rating won’t see large enough changes with 543, is potentially valid. However, going back to 321 isn’t the answer to that complaint. There’s another lever that should be used to change that: volatility.

The thing about glicko is that it’s based on the assumption that the scores are accurately representative of the strength of what they measure. If one score is twice another score, glicko assumes that whomever the first score belongs to is twice as strong as whomever the second score belongs to. Therefore, the scoring system should strive to most accurately represent that relative power levels of the servers; it shouldn’t be the tool you use to try and increase the volatility of the matches. 211 was obviously flawed in this regard, and potentially so were 543 and 321. However, argumemts for one or another scoring system should be made on the proper basis of whether they accurately represent server strength.

I am coming at it from the angle of: is this matchup fun? As someone on SoS who had the exact same matchup of maguuma and SBI for months on end, got steamrolled by a glicko locked yak’s bend when they had a link and a clip on their shoulder, and we won’t talk about a JQ matchup; I want fun matchups.

You have to remember: matchups last an entire week. It’s not like spvp where you get a team that doesn’t know what home is and can’t rotate, but you know 10 minutes later is a new match. If you’re going to be steamrolled, you’re going to be steamrolled an entire week.

I don’t want the same matchup every single week. You learn a server’s tendencies and want variety. What’s worse than the same matchup every week is the same bad matchup every week.

While there are other levers to pull with glicko or ditching glicko altogether, the 2-1-1 scoring works today for resolving matchup problems. No fancy new system, no glicko replacement, no Anet babysitting.

With matchmaking working, Anet would then be free to pursue other changes to improve wvw. Instead some resources are going into an experiment with a predictable result.

Ben K.6238:

Funny – most of the matchups of the 2-1-1 weeks the only thing I saw that had yet to be determined by Friday was who came last.

Yeah, but we have yet to have a system that does that. At least with 2-1-1 the fight is fun until the end.

Fay.2357:

Justine.6351:

Hesacon.8735:

Justine.6351:

5-4-3 seems to keep the winner and the loser of a skirmish in competition?

Think about it carefully. The absolute difference between each place is exactly the same if it is 5-4-3 or 3-2-1. It is exactly as difficult to overcome a deficit in 3-2-1 and 5-4-3.

I’m not so sure that is true.

1-2-3 is,
First place gets 150% value of second
Second gets 100% value of third
Third gets 33% value of first

3-4-5 is,
First place gets 125% value of second
Second gets 133% value of third
Third gets 66% value of first

This is accurate. All the geniouses in this thread going on about the absolute difference between the scores have clearly forgotten that there’s more than one way to compare numbers. I suppose they think there’s no difference between a 50% pay raise and a $1 pay raise either?

You misspelled geniuses, so there’s that.

The problem is not the absolute difference in numbers, that is totally irrelevant since the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place servers will be exactly the same.

No, the problem is that the proportional differences that are listed in the nested quote are going to prevent glicko from adjusting the matchups and we will have worlds locked into tiers they don’t belong in, with trouble moving up or down to get a more satisfying matchup.

The math within the nested quote is the exact point when you take the next logical step in match making!

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Since this is a similar to the other 5-4-3 thread, here is a link to my response on that thread.

And you say:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Why 5,4,3?
How is 5,4,3 different than 3,2,1?
Since there has been a lot of debate on this, with most people being right but debating different points, there are three things that are true:

1. The scores will be closer.
2. The placements won’t change.
3. This could impact world rating used for glicko matchmaking.

And I argued:

Hesacon.8735:

Changing it to 5-4-3 will prevent the quick adjustment based on glicko and cause bad matchups to continue for much longer.

Because:

Hesacon.8735:

Cerby.1069:

Ummmmm no its not. Each team gets one of the three numbers each round. And the DIFFERENCE between the numbers is 1-2 units…teh exact same as the 3-2-1 system. The final scores under a 5-4-3 system will be the same as the scores under a (3-2-1) multiplied by a coefficent. meaning the scores are simply inflated versions of the originals

It’s worse than that because of the way glicko adjusts itself. With 3-2-1 we required a lot of glicko manipulation to get competitive matches. 2-1-1 made the process faster without the need to adjust, and 5-4-3 will slow the process down.

And you also said:

McKenna Berdrow.2759:

Do we expect 5,4,3 to be a cure-all for scoring problems?
No. 5,4,3 will not make match scores dramatically better than 3,2,1. The scores might look closer, but if a world is dominating 5,4,3 isn’t going to stop them from winning. Population imbalance is the biggest factor in scoring problems and changing the skirmish score values isn’t going to change that. Population imbalance is a different problem that we are working on solving outside of changing the skirmish score values.

To which I argued:

Hesacon.8735:

Think about it carefully. The absolute difference between each place is exactly the same if it is 5-4-3 or 3-2-1. It is exactly as difficult to overcome a deficit in 3-2-1 and 5-4-3.

What’s different is that glicko ratings are changed by the proportional numbers and not the absolute numbers. So in terms of a server moving to the correct tier, 5-4-3 is slower and more unbalanced than 3-2-1, which is in turn slower and more unbalanced than 2-1-1.

And can also predict now:

Hesacon.8735:

The is nothing magical about this math and the results will be predictable.

This linking has more or less balanced matches at the moment, so we won’t notice any problems until we are relinked. Then the blowout matches will occur for several weeks until anet steps in to manually adjust them. The tragedy is that 2-1-1 means they don’t have to and this is a step in the wrong direction.

So again I beseech you: please don’t make this change. We will be in a matchmaking limbo that will require Anet’s intervention to resolve and frustrate a lot of players during the repeat weeks of bad matchups.

Justine.6351:

5-4-3 seems to keep the winner and the loser of a skirmish in competition?

Think about it carefully. The absolute difference between each place is exactly the same if it is 5-4-3 or 3-2-1. It is exactly as difficult to overcome a deficit in 3-2-1 and 5-4-3.

What’s different is that glicko ratings are changed by the proportional numbers and not the absolute numbers. So in terms of a server moving to the correct tier, 5-4-3 is slower and more unbalanced than 3-2-1, which is in turn slower and more unbalanced than 2-1-1.

The is nothing magical about this math and the results will be predictable.

This linking has more or less balanced matches at the moment, so we won’t notice any problems until we are relinked. Then the blowout matches will occur for several weeks until anet steps in to manually adjust them. The tragedy is that 2-1-1 means they don’t have to and this is a step in the wrong direction.

It’s action being confused with progress.

Something like 100-55-45 would function similarly to 2-1-1 getting us to good matchups while rewarding the second place and still allowing glicko to move. 5-4-3 will just cause problems.

ElvisMcRanft.8569:

Well, but if I stick to Sub 50 Fractals, do I even have to care, what the Meta is?
That’s why I said, if I ever decide, to hit harder content, I will craft myself Viper Horror gear for that.

Otherwise, I would go with this:
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Greatsword/X

I pug T4 fractals on an axe wielding power necro (not reaper) most nights of the week and have never had any issues. Maybe once a month someone will comment, but it’s always the person who spends most of the time on the ground so I can’t take them seriously.

Cerby.1069:

Ummmmm no its not. Each team gets one of the three numbers each round. And the DIFFERENCE between the numbers is 1-2 units…teh exact same as the 3-2-1 system. The final scores under a 5-4-3 system will be the same as the scores under a (3-2-1) multiplied by a coefficent. meaning the scores are simply inflated versions of the originals

It’s worse than that because of the way glicko adjusts itself. With 3-2-1 we required a lot of glicko manipulation to get competitive matches. 2-1-1 made the process faster without the need to adjust, and 5-4-3 will slow the process down.

The change to 2-1-1 made the matches more balanced than any changes made before. It allows worlds to quickly adjust their glicko and find balanced matches.

Changing it to 5-4-3 will prevent the quick adjustment based on glicko and cause bad matchups to continue for much longer.

Please reconsider this change, this will cause problems when the next relinking occurs.

If there’s one thing Anet could have done better it would have been to not chase the spvp e-sports with gaudy cash prizes and instead used that money to hire another dev or two. An extra body working full time on popular content like fractals or wvw would go a long way.

If you’re going to run greatsword anyway, then a dagger doesn’t do much for you. An axe is useful for those fights where enemies will use various area denial skills. If you have two melee range weapons, you’re either going to get slapped or stand around doing no damage waiting for something to clear.

Using only axe vs. only dagger, dagger does higher DPS. But if you factor in utilities or time spent running to a target, axe’s damage is fairly comparable on a single target but allows you to position yourself.

On the other hand, if you have a room to clear, an axe doesn’t do much for you besides getting a stack of retaliation and swapping to another weapon.

So why not carry both and swap between them? Dungeons and fractals are predictable. A dagger is better on Old Tom but not as good on the thumanova anomaly.

I got the magic find cap like a week before lunar new year and still managed to donate around a thousand red lanterns to my guild hall. I fear how I’m going to handle luck in the future, I think I’ll end up having to delete.

Would it be unreasonable to raise the magic find cap from 300 to 400, but have each level cost a stupid high amount? I don’t really notice a difference at 300 as it is.

There’s a sticky.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/Gift-of-Battle-What-to-know

How long does it take to finish the track?

It requires 20,000 reward points to finish any wvw reward track. The maximum acquisition rate is 195 points every 5 minutes at maximum participation, and would take slightly over 8.5 hours to complete while maintaining maximum participation.

This can be sped up by using an experience booster (50% gain) and Guild WvW Reward Track Boost (3-10% increase). With these 60% increases, at maximum participation it would take just shy of 5.5 hours to complete the track.

Increasing participation requires you to… do stuff in wvw. If there is a commander tag on the Eternal Battlegrounds or your server’s borderlands, following them will usually provide some quick participation gains, depending on the quality of the commander and zerg and the opponent you’re facing.

Some commanders will gladly share squad participation (if you ask for it) with scouts and roamers. If you offer to watch over an important objective (and call out enemy activities nearby!), most commanders will gladly share participation with you. This is a vital role while defending any of the 3 keeps in your home borderlands.

There are 4 wvw dailies, 2 rare and 2 exotic chests. The rare chests give 250 points each, the exotics 500 points each. Only doing dailies would take 14 days to complete the track, not counting the points you acquire actually doing the dailies.

zoomborg.9462:

My friendlist is full of unknown people. Ty multiloot. Also ty Thanatos for a lot of nice ml squads. Back to farm 40! See you there.

I feel better, I thought I was the only one. It was mildly useful when I showed up late and nothing was on LFG I could randomly /squadjoin and get lucky some squad wasn’t full.

When I’m roaming and come across another roamer (or group of roamers), I consider 3 things before initiating a fight:

• the class I’m playing
• the class(es) they are playing
• what their ranks are

If I have a class advantage I’ll always engage. If I have a class disadvantage but they’re sufficiently low rank I will engage for the practice or free kill.

Seeing people’s rank is helpful to me, I’m of mixed feelings whether or not that’s a good thing.

Mordremoth is the Pale Tree and the pact killed the Mouth of Mordremoth. Sounds like great cover to me. Yeah everyone might be kittened, but they think they’ve killed Mordremoth.

Meanwhile Mordremoth had assassinated Zhaitan using his champion Traherne and has his champion Caithe watching Aurene waiting on his unwitting pawn Lazarus to help the Pact kill Jormag and Primordus. After that, the only two elder dragons that can oppose Mordremoth are Kralkatorrik and Steve.

Soon Mordremoth’s plan will be complete! Soon the Sylvari will be free! Soon you will learn to fear the power of the Jungle Dragon!

The thing I like best about 2-1-1 is it allows for large swings in glicko points. This kind of removes the need for glicko adjustments. Since they made the change, we (SoS) haven’t had the same match twice. I think it’s fantastic for QoL when you’re not stuck in bad matchups for weeks on end.

I know they talked about going 6-5-4, but if they do that the final score will have exactly the same spread as 3-2-1 because anyone that understands math can tell you how counting works. But it will be worse than 3-2-1 because it will prevent glicko from adjusting itself and the same matchups are likely to appear with insurmountable glicko walls.

2-1-1 was an elegant solution to both the matchmaking issue and the glicko adjustment issue in one change. It also seems to change how servers behave because now you can’t fight for second place. At least the matches I’ve played it means fewer instances of double-teaming the weakest server in the time slot as the second place server had to gun for the first place.

There are still other issues to be resolved, but I’d say the 2-1-1 change is one of the best made in a long time.

Please .

Mike O Brien.4613:

This release will include the promised fix to AB multi-looting. The fix is simple: you can loot each of the great and grand chests once each time you complete the meta, once per map cycle.

lol

http://www.gw2shinies.com/item/19721

Mike O Brien.4613:

This release will also include a new, challenging group-farming spot for leather.

lol

http://www.gw2shinies.com/item/19737

In wvw, for roaming/solo play, I find an about even mix of vitality/toughness to be optimal. Most fights start at full life force but your healing is pretty abysmal.

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

I think it has changed, recently, with the new items being offered for Karma, and the other reasons to spend Karma.

I know I’ve gone from around 6 million Karma to just over 1 million Karma in the last couple of months.

Wintersday, unbound mining tools, and pact scout’s mapping materials brought me from 5 mil to 200k. I went from being unable to spend it because it was so very useless to not being able to obtain enough of it for everything.

Aurene will be evil because Mordremoth will soon take that body. He has his champion, Caithe, guarding it.

Lazarus is being played like a fool hunting down Jormag and Primordus like he is. Mordremoth tricked the pact into releasing his ley-line magic and allowing the White Mantle to revive Lazarus. Mordremoth knew he couldn’t use the blood stones.

So to answer your question: yes we can raise Aurene to be evil because Mordremoth demands it. Soon the Sylvari will be free. Soon you will all learn to fear the power of the jungle dragon!

A lot of my toons are in exotic armors and do just fine. Ascended trinkets are a little more important but easily farmable via LW3 rewards tracks. Trinkets just have way more stats than armor.