Guild Wars 2

Brawl.5178:

I really agree with your points here. The condi warrior seems to lack a condi bomb to provide quick pressure. I dont mind only having access to limited amount of conditions but the trade off should be more stacks or increased application frequency. And also like you said the condi build up takes very long for laughable amount of effectiveness and we die before the peak is ever reached lol.

I really dunno what A.Net had in mind when they designed the warrior in this balance patch.

Judging from Sword/Bow/Mace skills and Arms specialization they intend to push warrior towards going hybrid rather than fully condi. Still, either way warrior seems to be heavily lacking.

The weapon skills of the condition inflicting weapons aren’t even close to, lets say Scepter/Torch of a mesmer. A condi mesmer can stack some of the most powerful conditions (torment, confusion, burning) really fast and when at range! Bleeding overall got weaker and our bleeding skills stayed unchanged while our traits the involve bleeding got nerfed. Torment is OK but warrior can’t reapply that fast and our sword #4 was nerfed in the past. Burning is very powerful but Warrior still can’t apply the stacks other profs can.

And above all, with current state of the game, our survivability got reduced to a state we can’t easily stay alive long enough for our condis to work…

I can’t say whats to be fixed unless A.Net share their “vision” of warrior with us…

Even if you were successful to withstand many more attacks, such kind of build would only be good when fighting in groups as your high armor will come at the expese of DPS. I other words you wouldn’t be able to kill an opponent yourself and you propable would die after a long and rather boring fight.

Currently the high armor doesn’t mean you can stand there that long, maybe a couple of hits more but that’s it. Most DPS warrior are running full zerk.

Warriors actually need some serious enhancements in certain aspects.

1) Imho Warrior’s direct damage is very good, if not too good, atm. Can’t say for sure because there are other professions that got their burst boosted even higher.

2) Our damage mitigation is sub-par if you keep in mind the damage output all professions have. Our mitigation is mostly passive. Apart form some utility skills that grant us immunities (Endure Pain, Berserker Stance and our newly arrived Healing Signet condi Resistance) our survivability lies within the huge amount of HP and the Armor. Still, the Armor is partially negated due to the high Burst damage and the health pool suffers heavily under the new conditions and the heavy and rapid condi applying skills of other professions. Again, active defenses such as evades, stealth, blinds and such gives other professions the room to run in full zerker still retaining their defenses. Warrior cant do that.

3) Our condi builds performance are laughable compared to direct dps ones. This huge disparity to damage is paired with the lower survivability (see #2) and results into Condi Warriors being so rare sight in PvP/WvW these days…

I think defense needs to be reevaluated and disparity between condi and dps builds to be lessen. The overall damage potential needs to be re-evaluated in case survivability goes up.

IMPORTANT : Still, we dont need OP’ed skills and traits as these “cover up” the problem.

It depends, I prefer not using solely Rabid gear/trinkets but a mixture of either Dire/Carrion for the +Vit and my Crit Chance may not be 50% at all time.

Fury is granted through the Leg Specialist→Opportunist synergy as well. I just dropped Deep Strike in favor of Blademaster. Testing will show the results but tonight with a small group I was doing good.

In the end its a matter of preference.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

OP, you chose deep strike over blademaster. Is +150 CD that much better than crits on bleeding and 20% faster skills?

When it comes to Burning (the strongest Condition currently) you get 15.5% of the given amount (+150 condi damage). This means :

1) In case of Burning its 15.5% * 150 = 23.25dmg/stack
2) In case of Bleeding its 6% * 150 = 9dmg/stack

So, if you manage to stack 8xBurn (which isn’t that easy even with traited LB+consumables+appropriate runes/sigils) the total benefit will be ~200dps. Most of the time you ’ll get 50-100dps. Bleed is even less..!

I can say you are right! Blademaster may be better if you got high enough condi.

darkaheart.4265:

direct warrior will always beat condi warrior, i know that for sure lol and yes i understand warrior is not a condi class and other professions can do better…
but this weekend i will for sure have a stress test of the build and see how the build does against other classes with the immobilize idea and also try out Reaper of Grenth and Throw Bolas

Not necessarily!

Especially post patch I could beat a fair share of Power Warriors and I still do! But Warriors won’t be the profession that cause you the most trouble.

I wouldn’t say that the Warrior can’t play with Condis. Maybe not the best pure condi and better as Hybrid but still Warrior do utilize condis.

The main issue currently is that while some condis were made more powerful (like Burning) Warrior utilization of that condition is rather limited. Others were slightly weaker (Bleeding) and there A.Net didn’t give any boost to bleed applying skills and instead slightly nerfed the Specialization (resulting less strong Bleeds).

Do your test and pls let me know of your thoughts.

I (was) running something similar on my warrior in order to try something different from what most ppl do.

On paper this looks like a build with potential but with current game balance there are a few practical issues :

1) The high armor may mean little against some professions (mesmer/thief power builds). You may have hard time to stay alive long enough to kill them even with 3000 armor.

2) Against Condi users you got no cleanse and some professions can stack insane burns that eventually will overcome your condi immunity and resistance to condi dmg.

3) While this will bring Warrior’s condi to its maximum effect… others can just deal better than you with condis. What I achieved was 3.4k/sec burning at most in PvP, yesterday in WvW an Engi burnt me for 5.8k/sec …for 3secs cause I used my HS to resist his other condis.

What disappointed me about my build (similar to yours) is that the build itself is not bad. Its just that half other players perform better. Maybe the build will perform better if A.Net decides to make things work …differently?

If you use the the typical GS-A/Sh build you can have better results with the current balance. Still, don’t get disappointed, the thinking behind the build seems correct. Its only that, with the current balance state, half other professions out-perform us in the condi dmg field.

I am an old GW fun and played both GW1 (a month after launch) and GW2 (since early access). Under other circumstances if you asked me whether or not I was buying the 1st GW2 expansion I would definitely answer with a “YES”.

Still, after the recent game development events (latest Balance Patch) and the Golem WvW Week doubts about whether this new expansion will worth it are solidified.

Right now I doubt I will be buying it, at least not before or shortly after release. Why is that? There were many things that made me skeptic in the past but what made me really doubt recently was the following :

1) Latest Balance Patch – Although GW2 have no public test server I was hoping that after 3 years of experience A.Net would know what they should do and how to do that. Unfortunately I was disappointed to see that latest Balance Patch wasn’t a step forward into making a better game. It was a step forward and two backwards bringing the game balance at a worse status than before. So obviously badly implemented changes would take a bunch of average players a few hours to figure out. For a Dev team it shows amateurism or something that was terribly rushed out.

2) WvW Golem Week – Although it was just a week which passed (and hope it won’t return any time soon) it shows that A.Net isn’t really serious looking at one of the three main game modes (WvW). I doubt this event was something that was asked by the player base and drove off many WvW veterans for a week in a rather frustrating way. The event was not something that harmed the game but was a negative sign about how Devs think about WvW.

I hope A.Net will prove me wrong but as things are right now they do have to prove me there is good reason to spend my good 45€ to their product.

thrag.9740:

I agree. Originally they said they were making it drop faster because people would carry adrenaline from fight to fight. That is no longer a concern, because berserker’s power is from activation now, rather than a passive effect.

Right on spot!!!

The main reason for the adrenaline change is no more! Still adrenaline goes too fast…

At current warrior state some things are OP’ed (Rampage) while others are junk (Condi Warr).

Due to changes on other proffs our high armor means almost nothing (against power mesmer/thief builds) and due to condi changes our large health pool can be easily negated by certain professions (burning engi).

Giving more DPS to warr won’t solve the problem as we still die too easily since we got little means to negate damage other than soak it up (no evade spam, blind spam, stealth spam). Actually giving more DPS will break the balance even more as it will add one more problematic factor into the equation (which already has many).

Giving more Condi…? A condi warrior (S/S+LB) has access to Bleed, Torment, Burning easily with the addition of, lets say Poison through sigils. Now the issue to me isn’t the number of different Conditions we can stack but the ability to stack enough condis to make a difference. That the Warrior currently doesn’t have.

1) Bleeding : We can stack a respectable number of bleeds but bleeds are weaker now and other proffs can stack even more. Sword skill #1 applies a single stack and #5 a good 4 stacks BUT on block. Only #F1 applies many stacks that can deal good dmg.

2) Torment stacks may get to up to 6-7 (usually 5) but its applied by a single skill that is a projectile and easily avoidable imho.

3) Now Burning! Burning is too strong, stronger than it used to be… Still a warrior may reach 8 burning stacks for … maybe 2 secs? Yesterday and Engineer applied burning on me that stayed for 3secs dealing 5,8k/sec… a total of ~17,5k in 3secs. Warrior can’t do that!

So, instead of making Warrior “as insane as other proffs are” maybe ask to bring every profession (including Warrior’s OP’ed nonsense) in line with the rest in order to have a game that is fun to play.

From a WvW aspect no matter how heal works we are totally screwed against certain classes/builds.

Earlier I met a a pair of players (an Engi and an Ele) in WvW. According to combat log the Engi alone, stacked so many Burns that ticked for 5.8k/sec. Well, it ticked 3 times so in a matter of 3secs I was dead. The battle may have took me 10-15 secs and I wonder how I managed to stay alive for that long…

Receiving ~17.5k in a matter of 3 secs solely from a single player’s burning (No need to mention the bleed and confusion…) means you can’t prevent this for long as any condi cleansing skill or resistance skill has a CD longer that most skills and I can’t think of any way to heal yourself for such amounts of damage delivered so fast.

So, discussing the healing effectiveness in such an environment is like discussing if a boolet-proof vest will protect you against direct artillery shell hit!

I am well aware that game has other similar issues (DPS warrs can one-shot some professions given the right circumstances) but the ones that came with recent patch are over the top and any reasonable healing can’t help in fixing things.

And don’t forget the various nerfs with no real reason!!!

Like various Arms specialization traits got nerfed for no reason. Mentioning :

1) Bleed duration train from +50% → +33%
2) Damage to bleeding foes +10% → +5%
3) Dual Wield dmg buff turned from +5% dmg to +5% attack speed (resulting Dual Wield from +10% IAS to +15% IAS)

Why is that… I dont know!

After last patch the lack of Elite skills is the least. I know its there for some time but now we got more problems that needs to be addressed before looking into additional Elites.

The new Rampage, although started as a good idea maybe, it ended up awful. On the other hand Specializations now are lot more meaningful that trait-lines used to be but overall we got some nerfs that new rampage or another new elite won’t solve, neither will take us in line with other proffs.

It still feels like A.Net profession design & balance teams are seperate people that don’t talk to each other!!! It feels like this quite for some time now (years).

Yeah FH is essential to most Warrior builds but whats if A.NET let in in Discipline Specialization?

I mean, not having to pick Discipline solely for FH would give us more “room” for builds but I believe that A.Net wants to prevented it fearing that Warrior will be more of a multi-tool then.

I too believe that FH is essential for warrior builds but I do believe that Warrior’s problems may start there but doesn’t end there.

And not wanting to go off topic, I ‘ll mention something that is closely together with FH. Our (warrior’s) power is supposed to be the weapon variety. Yet at least 1/3 of our weapon choices are sub-par thus hampering our viable build variety. Mentioning :

1) Rifle – lots of issues mostly its too easily dodged
2) Axe (off-hand) – #5 low dmg
3) Sword (off-hand) – #4 not that great
4) Sword (main-hand) – mostly used for its mobility, not its damage
5) Warhorn – would like to see more utility when traited (like apply might on use)

Warrior post patch saw nerfs without reason. Now the profession is pigeon-holed to few specific builds and weapon choices (most GS+something or Hammer+something) and we are craving that A.Net will show us a fraction of “love” given to other proffs by making FH a baseline trait. Still this won’t fix the current warrior state!

If you want to see what weapon benefit from either power or condi just… see the weapon skills themselves!!!

Sword is actually hybrid weapon. It benefits from condi (F1 skill, #1, #5) and power (#3, partially #4). Same goes for LB especially if you trait it.

I keep reading “condi this” and “condi that”. To a large part ITS NOT the conditions themselves that needs to be tuned down. Its the various SKILLS that apply too many or too fast condi stacks that deals so much damage.

A simple example :

A condi Warrior (using S/S + LB) has access to Bleeds, Burning and Torment. How often did you die in WvW, for example, to a Condi Warr? Most of the time you don’t see Condi Warrs in WvW nowadays where you see Necros, Mesmers, Engis, Ranger.

So, its not that every condi user can bring you down that fast… Its specific professions and builds that can do that and thats because of certain skills.

To conclude this…. condi skills are what needs to be reviewed not conditions!

agree with ~90% of OP

If you are planning to use S/S+LB in PvE one of the best armor sets is Sinister (Condi, power, precision). You can either go fully (armor+accessories) Sinister or Carrion armor with Sinister accessories (for the plus vitality).

Its not Zerker but its close to it.

I believe that Armor overall damage reduction is not THAT good in this game.

I mean, when against another power build, having 3000 armor (besides hampering your DPS) doesn’t make you stand for that long against profession that can deal huge amounts of dmh.

On the other hand, professions that have means to go fully zerker and still avoid hits (using evades, stealth, protection) can bring you down fairly fast.

So, at the end of the day, whom he can go fully zerk and still avoid hits wins. Warrior can’t do that. He either go fully zerk and go kill or be killed or he goes tanky and is unable to kill fast (thus ending up dead due to others being able to reset/heal easier).

Whats great about LB is the Burning and Fire Field (Combustive Shot).

I use 1 Smoldering sigil on LB (Burning +20%). Now if you apply fire field, besides the Blast finisher which will give you Might stacks, you can use Leap finisher which grants you a Fire Shield (on being hit grants you Might and Burn your foe). Consider Sigil of Agony for your sword.

Sword #2 is Leap Finisher as well as Shield #4. So, you can either go Sw/Sw or Sw/Sh (for more leap finishers). Sw/Sw is for full condi damage.

Now for trait-lines consider using Tactics and try out Burning Arrows which reduces LB skills CDs and adds 1sec Burning to Dual Shot (LB #1). Apart from this, Powerful Synergy will let you activate Leap Finishers twice which means a Fire Shield will last 10secs.

Keep in mind that LB benefits from both power and condi dmg (like sword main hand).

Happy experimenting!!!

Kadarn.1703:

Not only for warrior, but for all other builds that use bleed as main condition.

I mentioned Warrior in particular as its not only bleeding dmg reduction that affected this profession but further nerfs in the relevant trait line (Arms).

Post patch the warrior’s ability to apply long lasting bleeds is reduced while damage against bleeding foes was slightly reduced as well.

While the Warrior’s traits(Arms line) and weapon skills(sword & longbow) that has to do with bleeding are either nerfed or strayed the same, the bleeding damage is reduced (something that affects all bleeding condition using professions). If you put all of these in calculation the damage outcome is reduced compared post-patch.

For the love of god guys there at Arena.net…

You nerfed bleeding while you already nerfed warrior Bloodlust trait condition duration (from +50% to +33%) AND damage increase (from +10% to +5%).

Now bleeding is weaker than it used to be, last less and warrior can’t put more bleed stacks compared to pre-patch! You made condi warrior less viable than it was used to be…

Instead of nerfing the condition maybe try to tweak the ability of certain professions to stack massive bleeding too fast.

I just saw that the bleeding damage formula was changed to

2+(0.025 * Level)+(0.06*Condition Damage)

… keep in mind that pre-patch announcement was → 2+(0.03*Level)+(0.075*Condi Damage)

So, now we are at a state that Bleeding is weaker that it used to be before patch. In particular, pre-patch you need 1200 condi to deal 100dmg per bleed stack. Now, with the same amount of 1200 condi damage you deal 94.

For warrior this change is just bad since bleed duration trait was nerfed (form +50% to +33%) which leads to less overall damage.

I ’ve played S/S-LB for quite long…

PvE wise you should (ideally) prefer Sinister armor/trinkets stat above Rampagers.

If that’s impossible to get for some reason Rampagers armor Dire/Rabid trinkets OR Carrion armor and Rampager trinkets… but really TRY to get full Sinister.

As of runes (going a bit further) I would suggest Aristocracy ones!

I went once more with my good old Condi Warr (now that bleeds got buffed). Currently the feelings are mixed as I can’t help judging my warr’s performance against other profs.

Our bleed duration trait got nerfed to +33% (used to be 50%) which means that a single warrior can’t stack so many bleeds without investing on sigils/runes. Against some proffs and builds I can do better (probably due to condi formula increase).

On the other hand, against certain builds, it feels like we are mosquitos… First few times against a stunlock shatter mesmer and I though I was lagging as I lost 40% of my health in a glimpse of an eye (from 26k HP → 15k in a matter of 2 secs?… no matter I had 3000+ armor). Against an engi I have little chances to scratch him with full condi build. Thieves get more damage I think but not reckless ones can still disengage effectively and run away. Against eles… it feels the same! Against guard… some certain build can destroy me easily while I saw for the 1st time a guard that had condi boosting consumables (thats good right?).

adozu.6398:

^you can roam as a full zerker warrior just fine, it’s just about knowing your matchups and judging carefully when/how to egnage/disengage, thief isn’t the only zerker that can go about the borderlands.

Ofc warrior can roam in full zerker gear and do just fine. Its just that thief can do as well, but can pick the wrong fight and still be able to disengage and leave the fight alive… not to mention they can re-engage as soon as they regen.

To put it simply, zerker warr can do fine… thief can do even better!

tboneking.2531:

My experience with thieves is that the best way to kill them is with condis. You apply them when theyre not stealthed, and whereas they can avoid direct damage when you cant see them, your condis will still be ticking. So as boring as it sounds Ive found the best build for dealing with thieves is the standard cele shoutbow/sword warrior.

Unless thieves haven’t spec’ed condi cleanse on stealth you can’t kill them with condis… this might happen only by accident.

In general, the best thing to deal with a thief is not roam alone as in solo roam thieves are kings. Even if they are losing a fight (mostly due to their own mistakes) they just reset and come back and the 2nd time they ’ll face you your skills are on CD.

Imho the Thief design is … lets say “asymetrical” compared to the rest profession designs. Thieves have 2 major shortcomings (on the drawing-board at least)… they can’t take many hits (little armor) and are conditions can drain their life quick (small health pool). BUT thieves can overcome these 2 shortcomings by having too many means to negate them. So, direct damage is negated by blinds and/or evades while conditions (when you manage to apply them on the thief) can be cleansed by a thief way too easy and reliably. In the end, even if you manage to deal enough damage to a thief he can stealth and regen. And this kind of performance can’t be seen at any other profession.

I mean, every profession has its shortcomings and while thief has a fair share of them, they have at least one mean to negate each shortcoming. Think of it otherwise… which professions are recommended to go full zerker in WvW???

Hey!

First of all, please clarify if you are interested on PvP or WvW (I don’t think you want to do PvE with S/S-LB).

To my WvW with Warrior S/S LB is that right now you can use hybrid builds more given you balance your attributes right(*).

If you are to use Rampager’s though, keep your precision on check cause if you go fully Rampager’s you get too much crit chance but too few power and condi and you ’ll be flimsy.

Even if you try to go rampager’s armor only, with more survival-oriented accessories, you still have to keep an eye on precision in order to avoid building up excessive crit chance at the cost of power/condi.

One thing is for sure, going Might Stacking runes (Aristocracy ones gives you might duration +condi dmg) is the best thing you can do. This will boost your otherwise lacking power and condition damage to respectable levels for the duration of the fight.

You won’t get a build that will win you every fight against anyone else but its rather good and interesting.

Instead of Rampager’s I would suggest Sinister’s though!

To me its not solely the amount of loot…

The reasons I see are :

1) Fewer overall rewards : Loot you get, gold you amass, materials… All these (apart from WvW-only currency… I mean BoH) can be found elsewhere. Apart from this, upgrading stuff requires much gold, which is hard earned (in WvW).

2) A game of numbers : WvW game is more about numbers. It favors zerg-play which, after a while, becomes more and more boring(same builds, same roles, same approach). Unfortunately nothing was done to actually encourage a different approach to WvW or tune down the zerg effectiveness so people’s focus can shift to something else for a couple of years now.

3) Server numbers : Like #2 wasn’t bad enough already, recently the server populations made it that you rarely get interesting match-ups. Your server either stomps or gets stomped and this is largely due to having a population imbalance in a game where population is what matters most. This drives-off lots off players or force them to migrate to higher tier servers.

WvW is neither dead nor healthy. Actually, the situation seems to be deteriorating.

Having queues on reset doesn’t necessarily mean that WvW is fine or anywhere close to fine.

Being on a server, that is rated as Very High Populated one and being in the middle of the ranks, while you almost never see a queue and you hardly have numbers to compete some other servers means something.

coglin.1867:

I can agree with everything the OP said except the point on adrenaline decay. I understood that change. We have entirely too many skills/traits linked to adrenaline to allow it not to decay. Although some compensation could be applied to some skills that it effected.

Exactly! You are supposed to make the adrenal decay change along with changes to the adrenal based skills/traits… which happens to be many.

Example?

Adrenal Health… It “ticked” every three seconds with the “old” adrenaline system. Now adrenaline decays faster but the trait still ticks every 3 secs.

It should be changed to tick every sec with the respective change on the healing amount.

Waisenpai.6028:

Dominik and Narkodx are right. I strongly support them.

I run warrior since beta and I feel them to be quiet fair just run 6 0 0 4 4 gs/bow or Ham or Axe/Shield. Use Ascended Zerker gear with Str runes or Hoebrak or Rune of Pack. Fusion with Knight/Cav accessories. It’s very fun! …

You see? You ended up suggesting a single build with an additional 2 variations (based on weapons and runes)… There is no variety in warrior builds!

So, whats the point of having all these traits/weapons/gear if, from the hundreds possible combinations, you end up having to pick one of the total two effective ones? It didn’t used to be like this.

And on top of that, I am really starting to believe that profession design and balance is being taken care by separate teams! I can’t explain how they manage to create professions with some great trait synergy, variety and overall potential, while narrowing down others to the same stuff over and over.

I don’t know about you guys but I believe that when you take X profession and start nerfing this and that, it will sooner or later end up being boring cause too many restrictions will result in fewer ways to be effective.

This is happening more or less with warrior lately where most warriors run similar builds. In a way it reminds me of the first few months of the game where a warrior had to choose between GS+Frenzy or nothing.

Is S/S-LB still viable in WvW? Haven’t met one for quite some time in WvW.

To hello with that Queen Jennah…

…if there wasn’t a bigger threat, the Dragons, I would gladly fight the Charr off our homeland. I believe that deep inside me I am a separatist and I feel more comfortable in Ebonhawk and roaming Ascalon.

In GW1 all content was designed around 8-man parties. Dungeons, explorable areas and PvP was like that.

Now, IF there is any thoughts of doing this, which personally I doubt, everything must be changed (from skill limitations to dungeon content). Even the addition of allied NPCs (like heroes & henchmen in GW1) must be implemented cause, believe me, not everyone is keen on finding 7 others, instead of 4, to do a dungeon.

Bottom line… How can you tell if they plan something like that and what good would this do to the game?

I reside to Aurora Glade[EU] since Early Access.

The WvW population and coverage imbalance was present since launch. What made it more obvious and annoying in many cases was the implementation of Megaserver. While megaservers where a salvation for PvE areas it brought some side-effects.

For example, Aurora Glade server always had been a relatively balanced population server between PvE and WvW. Neither aspect of the game (WvW/PvE) was empty. There was a large portion of players who didn’t want to move to another, (unofficially) WvW-oriented server, cause the downside of such servers was the smaller PvE population.

Now with the megaservers, the smaller PvE population isn’t an issue for anyone. Still, being stuck on a server with smaller WvW population is still an issue (at least for anyone who enjoys WvW) cause we have no chance to compete with servers who retain a large number of WvW players. Especially in this Season, due to some poor decisions made by A.net, people aren’t motivated to spend time in WvW anymore. Most just join the fight on reset day, do 5 events, and will leave as soon as they get current weeks achieve just to retunr on the next week.

Personally I don’t see how this can be dealt with in a way that will solve the issue permanently unless megaserver idea is applied to WvW aswell.

I would disagree with you lot…

The Holy Trinity exists because us, the players, decided that this is the way we want it.

PvE wise – Sure, random people will accept you easier if you are a warr/guard/ele but thats just a stereotype we, players, have in mind. I did a few hundred of dungeon raids with various groups and various compositions. I never really seek a “trinity” in my group and I ‘ve seen successful groups that didn’t followed that “trinity” of yours. It may not be “optimal” but it was quite close to it and more interesting sometimes.

WvW wise – This “trinity” of yours exist in ad hoc groups (designed to do something specifically). Mesmer just a veil bot? No room for engineers of necros? Have you really seen what a pair of ranger can do when roaming?

In short words, this “holy trinity” is no less than another self fulfilling prophecy. You believe there is a “trinity”, you play with that “trinity” in mind and you end-up proving yourself right!!!

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

it is only okay if non warrior players stop complaining about warriors.
but that will not happen.

so the best way is to make all other professions have more viable builds too.
more versatility for all professions is always a good thing.

each profession should always be able to do a lot of things, but they cannot do everything at once.

Actually there are things about warrior that needs to be re-thinked and possibly changed. My main is warr and I can see some things on warr that I dislike. One example is mobility, in particular mobility from GS skills.

Giving more roles in some professions would be silly. Warrior’s strong point is versatility. Still this versatility comes with some limitations and can’t surpass each class specialization.

General game balance can’t be achieved by simply implementing general rules that affects everyone. You needs to see check and tweak each profession individually.

ThiBash.5634:

it may very well be true that warriors cannot do all of it at the same time, but when I’m fighting a healing signet warrior whose bar doesn’t change at all, and still deals 2k+ per auto attack, there’s reason enough to make those claims.

Nevermind if it’s not ‘technically true’, in practice it is.

If you really check Healing Signet, its just a mean to have some awesome regeneration. Pairing it with Adrenal Health trait and you got an even better regen which is able to deal with pressure damage (constant damage from a condition from example) but it doesn’t heal for that much (about 500hp/sec as Adrenal Health ticks once every 3 secs). Such warrior (that rellies on HS and AH trait) is still succeptible to spike (high) damage.

Not being able to lower the health of such a warrior means your autoattack dmg is below 1k and you are using a too tanky build.

If this ain’t the case, this warrior was probably using a 0/2/6/6/0 Healshout build with either Cleric’s or Settler’s gear which, in turn means, his damage potential is somewhat low (not close to 2k autoattack), he is lacking stability and most likely he is lacking CC. In this case… just walk away. This kind of warr can hardly harm you if you decide to walk away.

Conditions are still good against such warriors. Confusion (rocks on warr), burning and poison are the best damage dealing ones for regen bunker warr.

In short words…

Warrior’s pos is that it can be traited to do almost whatever you like.

Warrior’s con is that they can’t do all of these at the same time.

I rarely post on these forums but I read then quite more often. People, when are referring to warr, they tend to say that they got 30k hp, 3000 armor, deal a good 10k dmg, while are almost imune to CC and conditions…

No one seems to mention that no warrior can do all these at the same time. For example, if you go 30k hp, you will either lacking armor or damage. If you spec for the notorious Direct/Condition Dmg immunity (through zerker stance and endure pain) you will do so for only 10s at best while being vulnerable for another 50s.

You just need to understand the weaknesses of each build and know what to expect when you see the warrior’s weapon set. One con that is common to most builds is the skill cooldowns (in lesser extend to shout builds). Try to force a warrior to use their skills in vain (be it condi cleanse, be it stability or whatever) and they will be vulnerable long enough for you to counter attack. Most warrior builds after trying to burst you down need to go on defense till their skills charge back.

To receive more specific advice you need to provide more specific info (as what build in paticular you want to counter).

jportell.2197:

…Heard you like bullet points so.

• Warriors get too much condition cleansing thanks to the synergizing of cleansing ire an burst mastery.

• If using burst mastery warriors should only cleanse conditions equal to the actual amount of adrenaline spent. OR

• Cleansing Ire gets a 15s ICD. Moving it up a tier won’t help since people will just trait merciless hammer in master and cleansing ire in GM.

I am feeling you are focusing too much on a single point, loosing the bigger picture.

For sure Warrior’s ability to cleanse conditions isn’t close to where it was when game launched. Still, going both for Burst Mastery AND Cleansing Ire requires you to spend 10 of the total 14 ability points… which somewhat restricts your build to certain things.

In other words, having superior condition cleanse while trading off some of your attack or defense potential seems a valid thing. So, while you can cleanse conditions easier you are more vulnerable to other things.

Btw, wasn’t that Deceptive Evasion was to be changed in not creating clones when you already have 3 clones?

What Yamsandjams said! We don’t know yet the exact functionality of this trait.

This GM traits is really interesting. Imagine it being used by multiple warriors in WvW, using Discipline Trait I (Mighty Defenses) and charge into a zerg with shields up while having some +might duration runes equipped.

Kukchi.6173:

Thoughness will be a useless stat. Condition dmg is not reduced by it. Everyone will be rolling CONDITIONS after the Ferocity BUFF.

I completely disagree.

Condition damage, by default, is ideal against highly armored targets cause its armor ignoring! Since the game launch it was like this. On the other hand direct damage works better against less armored targets. As it is now, direct damage seems to be quite effective against everything.

I believe that this change will give more diversity in builds. For example and no matter what, Hammer will still be praised for its CC and hammer has little possibilities to damage through conditions. So, if you want a stun build you will forgo conditions.

Apart from that, in organized large scale combat, conditions are cleansed pretty fast and healing is more often. So, direct damage will a viable solution.

Yeap… delay in sword F1 skill made me lose my target and swing at the air like maniac lots of times.

Hmmm…

I ‘ve seen once that my projectile was “obscured” from an engineer’s mine he dropped back while dodging and though its a bug. Maybe it was the bug you people experiencing.

I ‘ve seen Pindown and Impale’s projectile being “out of range” while my target was half a leap away and though that I might be lagging and my target could be further away compared to what I saw…

Yeah, all these reduces the effectiveness of such skills.

Both these skills have one considerable drawback… their CD (cooldown) which is 60secs while their effects are 8s (Berserker Stance) condition immunity and 4s (Endure pain) damage immunity.

If you stop spamming your precious skills on a warrior that simply negates them and wait for these to expire… then you got close to 1 minute where warrior won’t be able to do much.

Better/more obvious animations could be nice though.

HeadCrowned.6834:

Just the amount of times and the duration of getting invisible is too large by thieves.

To what you wrote above, add :

1) evasion
2) blindness
3) fail (miss/blocked) attacks doesn’t break stealth

thief profession has one of the most powerful toolboxes to make up for their squishy-ness.

Cygnus.6903:

People saying that thief needs more risk added to them should try playing one.

I used a Warr quite long and now I am starting delving into a Thief. Yep, being a thief leaves you little room to take hits (cause of their low health) but they have quite a fair share of “tools” to actually avoid being hit and even if they get hit they can leave combat area quite effectively.

Orpheal.8263:

vs Warrior: The typical 0815 Warrior you meet on in WvW as a Thief is either the GS-S/W Warrior, that tries you rip you into pieces short and quickly with 100B and if he has no success with tha, he keeps on running away like the most kittened coward, that these kind of players are, paired with their god like self regenerations they have from their Healing Signet, Buff Food and eventually Dolyak Rune 6.
Or you meet on the Hambow Warrior, who first spams you full with conditions, just to smash you to death with knock downing Hammer attacks afterwards, if you aren’t quick enough to get the immobilize away, again with insane self regen paired to the poin,t that you seem to do nearly no damage or they keep you at distance and can easily reset the fight to regen back to fulth health.

Where to start?

My warr has about 3.2-3.5k armor and usually a successful backstab deals 4-5k damage. The 6th Dolyak Rune gives you 30hp/sec. On the contrary Adrenal Health minor trait can grant a warr 3 times that amount.

Warriors mostly use Hammers (i don’t like them that much) cause they got many benefits compared to other weapons. I use S/S-LB condition build and thieves can cleanse all my conditions (except torment) and when get cornered they just move away to see them again with full health after some seconds. The best chance a warr has against a thief is Stun+Burst… be that 100B or Eviscerate.