Guild Wars 2

My thief has now been rerolled into the legendary bank class, honestly why was tactical strike nerfed? Why was dancing dagger nerfed? Why was cluster bomb nerfed? Oh well might solve people using thieves in hotjoin… now we may see loads more killshot warriors and mesmers… fun fun fun

That was… uncalled for…. anyone up for a petition…

bwillb.2165:

Fritz.5026:

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Fritz.5026:

the things that pass for logic on this forum are always amazing.

do you honestly think the thief class would be so popular if it wasn’t so powerful?

personally i hope the patch moves the class towards a more balanced position. low risk + high reward is obviously broken which is why the class is so popular.

edit – also comparisons to warriors are always so genuine because warriors can turn invisible to avoid retaliation and teleport across the map when things are not going their way.

In TF2, you’ll see a large number of spies, and snipers on a 12 man team when you go into random pubs. Usually 3 or more of each.

In reality, a well put together team of 12 players would have one sniper in most situations, and have one spy who goes on and off.

People rarely care about what’s really effective. They play what they feel is “cool”, or “leet”.

in competitive games people always gravitate towards the most powerful classes available.

its really just simple logic. people want to win. the powerful class increases their odds.

this is not rocket science.

Riddle me this: Why do you see no or almost no backstab burst thieves in tPvP?

That one is easy, because they are all playing mesmers, but in all seriousness… the amount of Mesmers in the final battle kyhlo is too kitten high, its not uncommon for me to see teams utilizing 3 mesmers on that map

Maybe if weakness reduced crit chance… hmm

Are thiefs op? No, it just due to someone saying hey look at what this can do, infact the questionable the backstab build which has become famous has a burst of 45 seconds whereas many other classes can continuously use there bursts, is it fair that I can burst every 45 seconds as a thief? Well apparently it is not. Is it fine for a warrior to smack down an ele with 15k damage in spvp from 1500 range with a much shorter cooldown? Yes, yes it is…

The problem with the thief is not that it is overpowered, even the cnd>Mug>backstab build is not overpowered, the problem with the thief is its popularity and thanks to it the thief is getting nerfed.

BabelFish.7234:

Anonymous Hood of the Mad King
+45 power
+32 tough
+32 vit
Defense: 97

Med Aurora Shoulderpads of the Mad King
+45 power
+32 tough
+32 vit
Defense: 97

Valk Emblazonized Coat of the Mad King
101 power
72 vit
5% crit dmg
338 def

Med Mortal Gloves of the Mad King
32 power
24 vit
24 tough
157 def

Valk Emblazonized Pant of the Mad King
67 power
48 vit
5% crit dmg
Def 218

Med Aurora Boots of the Mad King
32 power
24 tough
24 vit
157 def

Warden Sword of Force
Weapon strenght: 905-1000
+90 power
+64 precision
+5% dmg
+5% crit dmg

Berserker’s Pearl Handcannon of Air
+90 power
+64 precision
+5% crit dmg

Berserker’s Peal Needler of Bloodlust
Weapon Strength: 876-1029
+90 power
+64 precision
+5% crit dmg

Berskerer’s Spineguard of the Berserker
+18 power
+13 precision
+1% crit dmg
+25 power
+15 precision
+3% crit dmg

Emerald Orichalum Earring of the Berserker x2
+40 power
+40 precision
+56 tough
+25 power
+15 precision
+3% crit dmg

Emerald Orichalum Ring of the Berserker x2
+48 power
+48 precision
+67 tough
+25 power
+15 precision
+3% crit dmg

Emerald Orichalum Amulet of the Berserker
+64 power
+64 precision
+90 tough
+25 power
+15 precision
+3% crit dmg

Total Stats:

Power: 2324
Precision: 1687
Toughness: 1356
Vitality: 1340
Attack: 3338
Critical Chance: 41%
Armor: 2420
Health: 15647

Nice comments guys. Now eat your humble pie.

perma invis meaning bypassing the debuff by not attacking, using shadow refuge to stack stealth and casting things like thieves guild while remaining invis followed by the BS combo.

I don’t think bs itself is broken. Its the combination of casting while invis and shadow refuge creating a insanely long stealth period.

Both mitigate the drawbacks for going full glass cannon which quite frankly is broken.

If you go full glass you should you shouldn’t be a survivability machine.

From the looks of it your complaining about the rendering. As soon as a thief as you probably know attacks something it receives the revealed debuff, granted its not functioning properly as it takes too long for a thief to render (this case also happens in Spvp) As a S/P thief you shouldn’t have a problem with him casting HiS (Headshot) or Shadow refuge, just get in the area he has refuged and bomb away with your shortbow, to recieve the full benefits of refuge the thief has to stay there for all pulses so put a lot of pressure on him.

Another example is a killshot warrior who can hit you hard from 1,500 range and can down you very quick also, as you can run around in WvW using your PvE gear and with full zerk you get 114% crit damage, so anything that runs with 114% crit damage will cause pain.

From the sound of it you got bursted by 2 backstab thieves, you will die if any 2 glass cannons from almost any class concentrate a burst on you, but as a necro you do have some some counters, Reapers mark on the staff, place it on the area you and the engineer are on and let them come to you, the fear will break up nicely the thieves combo, once the combo has failed pick one of the thieves and both you and the engineer concentrate in killing him, at all cost prevent him from use hide in shadows(can be done with the fear from death shroud) get an immobilize(net shot from the engi’s rifle helps here) on him also from you saying the 20% speed bonus I doubt the thieves have any condition removal utility so immobilize and proceed to kill and if they use shadow refuge just aoe it.

A lot of people don’t bring stun breakers, people forget that with 100b with frenzy is a 1.75 second attack, the knockdown from bull’s rush and that 100b is a PBAOE attack, finish that off with an eviscerate with a simple weapon switch and you have dealt a huge amount of damage in about 2 seconds. People complain that 100b does not hit very hard compared to backstab, but with buffs which warriors can easily acquire (Even without the need of traiting) they can deal massive amounts of damage, just check the screen shot of 100b hitting for 28k on page 10.

My, my… lets not forget 100b is PBAoE also..

A great song, well done Gintoki,

As for WvW the crit damage is the problem…. 114% is insane, but balance should not be done through WvW, and the ability to down you in 2 seconds is not only reserved to thiefs.

18k on a backstab? That might be able to be done in wvw, and if its a 18k with a backstab, don’t worry… 100b can still hit higher

crewthief.8649:

I understand that Warriors can dish out alot of damage. Are you dismissing all the other goodies you get with the Thief profession? Do you think a Warrior does that kind of damage AND has an equal amount of mobility, utility, and survivability as a Thief?

Your heavy armour helps you with the your superior health also, and if you want mobility look no further to your greatsword skill 5, just lost your target hit 5, hit 3 if need be and thanks to signet of range you probably still have over 20 seconds of swiftness and your gone.
Thieves do have shadow refuge, but all you need is a knock back before 5 pulses and the thief is revealed, and a lot of people dont even bother swinging randomly in the refuge…

Doomdesire.9365:

crewthief.8649:

Doomdesire.9365:

Shilian.5873:

Thieves of all the world, go to roll a ranger and build it glass cannon, then tell me if you still have the guts to complain about your incoming nerf.

That’s very ironical, but ranger was a good class before as glass cannon that DID NOT need a nerf, and it got nerfed to the point where the ranger class isn’t nearly as great, now this is happening to us while warriors and guardians still have the same type of damage.

Are you saying that Guardians have the same burst as Thieves?

The max I’ve backstabbed a squishy with vulnerability was 8K + 5K steal + the normal 4K CND

I’ve seen warriors do 20K+ 100B (against my super squishy thief, mind you) and kill the guy before he can get up. I’ve seen 11K eviscerates and it could probably go higher with the right gear.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/warrior/To-all-warriors-guardians-how-do-you-feel-about-thieves/first#post620542

This is what the warrior forum thinks. The majority of them think thieves ARE EASY too kill after the initial burst. The point I’ve been trying to make. Now you want to take away that initial burst and all you have is a glass cannon without the cannon part.

The screenshot is from the 16th of october, but it shows an eviscerate hit 12k.

Ragnarox.9601:

i am talking about spvp too, i play there with guardian have same problems with them they do awesome dmg trying to dodge pop my hammer to back him off but i am at 2k hp max now, so nerf is a must, take their stealth and they can run all day long doing 10k dmg in 2 sec i dont care i will do my dmg to them too, now i cant see him when i see him i am down to 50% hp in 1 sec.

btw i started to play thieves too and i am noob at them and again i kill ppl in matter of seconds. so no skill needed just push buttons. nerf them to normal parameters, or take away their stealth and make them visible to my attacks.

The problem is not only the thiefs aren’t the only ones who can pull off huge numbers, roll a glass warrior and see, I managed to hit 15k with 100b Signet of rage and frenzy proceed to switch and then smack 8k with an evicerate on in spvp, now this burst can be done only every 60 seconds(with traits anyone can do it also)

Now I agree that the rendering even in spvp is bad, I have seen thieves with the backstab build and one memorable example was when I was my team had been fighting (Spvp and its nice zergs…) then came a backstab thief, he pops out haste(for a reason I have absolutely no idea) and thanks to haste being used it, and the fact took the server 2 extra seconds to render him after backstab had been hit the other thief and finished my necro with his shortbow with an invisible opponent.

Ragnarox.9601:

thats why you must nerf them, i am full vit/tough/pow gear , 18.5k hp and he taken down my hp to 20% in 3,4 sec while i was dodging and using def buffs. screen taken in wvw no one around only me and thief. he was in stealth when he attacked , didn’t killed me because i had luck to pop my spirit hammer and kitten him after that. and he ran away in stealth again.
(i am plate guardian, if he managed to get me like this in 3,4 sec what he could do to some other no plate class)

And yet again people forget that you can run with 114% crit damage in wvw, wvw is unbalanced but buffs and nerfs should not be based upon wvw

All it does is keep evade up, the damage… is lackluster

For me I would like to see death blossom, just pure damage, but remove the conditions and put that on unload.

Flanking strike needs attention and our traps.

People keep saying wvw this, wvw that. Balance should least of all revolve from wvw, in fact I hope it does not at all. In WvW one can run around with 114% crit damage which cannot be done in SPvP.

I am all for a increase in time of the burst, but not a damage nerf, that would be uncalled for. Roll a warrior and you can also burst for 20k+ in about 2 seconds with the help of bulls rush, the elite signet(mostly for the fury, but the might and swift help a lot., frenzy, hundred blades and finish with a weapon switch to eviscerate and they are downed…. and surprisingly people still don’t bring stunbreakers into Spvp…

Should the thief be nerfed to be able to burst slower and with less damage then a warrior can? Of course no, I hope anet also looks at quickness the same time it looks at nerfing the thief’s(they did not specify the thiefs so other classes are likely to be hit, yes I’m looking at you shatter mesmers) burst capability.

Weapon X.5163:

“Dont nerf me, bro” Said the Thief.
“Thou shall be nerfed” Said the Dev.
“I will be warrior food” Said the Thief.
“You cant win ’’em all, bro” Said the Dev.

True story….

“Warriors, thou shall all be granted a buff also” Said the Dev

True story

But on an unrelated note backstabs damage should not be nerfed, infact the skill should not even be touched, nerf the range on steal to something like 300….

Burst Damage yes, DPS on the other hand is a diffrent matter I believe

Edit: Anet should just remove haste, or nerf if it.

Ashanor.5319:

Teleports NOT canceling current actions is a cool mechanic that works very well, and is very fun, with other professions. For example, a Mesmer with Blink or an Elementalist with Lightning Flash can spend one utility slot to make sure their self-root bursts hit reliably.

Fixing a mechanic to balance a single skill sequence from a single profession, while ruining perfectly balanced strategies from other classes, is not a good idea. Clearly, as I’ve shown, the problem is not with the teleport mechanic itself, because it works greatly in other situations.

Ever consider that maybe you shouldn’t be able to make it hit reliably? Maybe it should take a little more practice to make it hit reliably? For instance, it makes C&D way to easy to land.

Hmm, Remove the teleport, give 3 seconds stealth on usage of steal(Would reduce the time of the spike greatly), change the trait with gives stealth upon stealing to something else.

Or reduce the range of steal to 300-450 traited to 600

SKuDDer.1860:

Daeqar.8965:

SKuDDer.1860:

Its evident you do not know the guardian class very well, the build I am using isn’t all stats toughness/vitality, but it is one of the best/only survivability builds that can do some damage. Take a look at my gear again, everything has toughness/vitality, I should not have to have toughness vitality in every single base/gem slot sacrificing any kind of damage at all(which guardians already do meh daamge) to survive a burst thief…

What you just said isn’t true if the link you provided is accurate. You are wearing 6 pieces of Berserker gear. Everything else only has 1 defensive stat. Your Power and crit and crit damage is pumped up very high. You’re not full glass cannon largely because of traits and rune, but you’re not all that far off. Definitely not even a 50/50 balanced. And you’re obviously not running something made for healing or sustainability.

You’re setup to kill the thief before he kills you, not survive or outlast the thief. Your build relies on offense to win, and that won’t work when they catch you with CD’s for a huge opener. Your build is setup to spot them out in the field and be the aggressor. If you’re expecting something else, your gear is all wrong.

So my runes/ my weapons/ me jewelry / my traits are all defensive, but because i put a little bit of berzerk stats i am full bezerker apparently? Its not glass cannon, its not dps, its sustainability build with some damage, you saying I need more then 3000 armor is absurd to survive more then 5 seconds of dps from a thief.

Pardon me for the double post, I run a 2400 armor build in Spvp as a Guardian and have never had a problem with a backstab thief, I have a level 5 guardian so I obviously have a lot less experience then you Skudder with the class , however if the thief is in WvW ( haven’t bothered to check) then stupidly high damage is expected from any burst class, why? In PvE/WvW crit damage can be stacked like a kitten, if we go exotic berserker with jewels and all along with the 5 gold assassins backpack and we have a HUGE damage bonus of 104% critical damage just there, then lets assume the thief ate the +10% and what do we have, 114% crit damage… yes the hits will be huge, but imagine a glass staff ele destroying people in the gates with 114%, or even a warrior with that amount.

sorrow.2364:

I just want to know which profession except thief can pop out that damage in that time without the use of quickness.
Sorry guys, but backstab feel ridiculous to me. All high damage skills are channeled, have massive casting time or easy to evade.
Backstab deal at least 4k damage and a maximum of 10k, is almost instant and give the victim no clue when the backstab will come..
I don’t care that you have low health and you are squishy and blah blah blah. You have stealth to compensate which is the most powerful defensive mechanic in the game.

Thieves are not the only ones who can deal massive damage, take warriors and Eviscerate, I first tested using methods too maximize the damage at first using For great justice and signet of fury to give me 8 might, and on the thief I took the signets of might trait for 5 stacks of might along with assassins signet for an extra 15%.

Then I tested without any buffs but only traits to see what was more damaging
Thief Traits:
25 Deadly 9 (could of gone to 30 but 50 power and the chance to have 1 more strike with venom and 4 seconds of immobilize isn’t going to do much)
30 Crit 2,3,11
15 trick
Warrior traits
30 Strength 10, 5
30 Discipline 9,12

Now this was not tested in a fair way(could of used executioners extra 20%, or I did not use the empower for more damage per boon) , but it sufficient to prove to you that not all massive damage is done by “channeled skills”.

And just for the “lols” a screenshot of an 11k hit in spvp on a glassy ele ( not useing this setup but as a shout warrior no less)

I didn’t test this fairly but if someone was to you would find the numbers to be similar.

Dee Jay.2460:

They really just need to alter some of the burst traits. Assassin’s Reward should be changed as it directly encourages burst-builds.

Steal during C&D is equally burst-encouraging and should probably be prohibited as well.

I don’t think Backstab needs a direct damage nerf as it’s a situational skill.

Agreed, make it so steal and CnD don’t work together.

Loco.4561:

I have a number of friends who play thief, some of them are, very, very good at the class. I’ve asked them, do you think thieves are Op at the moment, every single one replied “Yes”. I duo WvW with a full beserker/exotic thief I watch him down players before I am even in range, the damage he can put out is just nuts and he does this consistently.

I have come across thieves in WvW (and before you pipe up, I know it’s WvW and peoples gear can be vastly different) that can and do kill players in under 2 seconds. I’m a full exotic bunker built Ele, I came across a thief who was consistently doing between 16-19k damage with Steal, Cloak & Dagger, Backstab with Backstab critting for between 8-9k, my health pool at the time was 16.8k. He would down me before I even had a chance to react. Considering I am bunker/tank character, imagine the amount of damage he would be doing to any glass cannon built players.

No profession should be able to down a player before they have a chance to react, I don’t care how “squishy” you keep telling people they are, as stealth makes up for having less survivability.

Does thief need toning down? Absolutely.

In WvW it is easy to get 104% crit damage, and that is without food and buffs, big hits will happen

MarkedOne.1309:

Thief that can do this kind of damage is fully glass cannon specced. Should they want to kill people fast, it goes: basilisk>(assassnins signet)>cloak and dagger>steal>backstab. This works pretty well against majority people. However, however. Most players just wait till they get approached by a thief, then they will probably lose (reactions-skill). This is the majority people. Majority people = casual players aka players that are not very good. These players go on this forums and call for nerfs.
On the different side – there are about 10-20% people that are aware of how their class or any class for that matter should be played. So they don’t wait, they pop cd’s, or easily they only dodge. If a thief does this combo, he has cooldowns on all major skills and is left with almost 1/2 of his initiative. What now? The thief will most likely die.
People from the top teams know that thieves are fine as they are. Those are the people that are good. They play other classes and have no problem to counter them 1v1 and kill them.

If there are any nerfs to thieves, i want mesmers nerfed, portals, moa need to be nerfed or adjusted. Warrior 100b and their constant dps is also bad. Necromancers are pain, can kill anything, plague needs to go. Then you need to nerf guardians+elementalists, their bunker specs are too strong to be in game.

As a thief (one of professions i play) i am having a blast when I am able to kill rank5 elementalist in about 2 seconds. I am pretty sure he will be mad and probably will go to the forums. On the opposite side, when I meet a rank 30 elementalist, or just one that knows what he is doing, I have absolutely NO chance to kill them. Backstab is just useless in this situation. These players dont go to the forums but rather play and kill more thieves on their own.

There might be needed quite a few adjustments made in regards of ALL classes, not only thief.

I don’t really like to say these type of things again and again either ingame or on forums, so thats all from me.

This. The Backstab setup is a great noob killer (Even better if they go full glass) but meet a half decent opponent and the thief is going to die.

It is fine as it is

I don’t think Anet will nerf thieves anytime soon, but knowing them warriors will probably get a buff, I would however like to see the melee weapons on the ranger buffed.

Why? Cause it requires very specific prerequisites before using it, i.e stealing from a necro… and the warriors FEAR ME has the same duration from close range if I remember correctly.

My, my…. it is still cool to complain about thieves, let us not forget that while using the using the burst they themselves have used most likely their elite (BV and a utility) so expect to use a utility to survive the burst… and if he used quickness just dodge( one dodge would probably cover 4 heartseekers with quickness, it is about 2 without quickness, but for haste should just be removed from the game), a thief without his initiative is a joke.

A Mesmer and Warrior with certain builds can smash you and your teammates down to less then half health also, whats more OP? Bursting down 1 player, or 3 players? And let us not forget that both Warriors and Mesmer’s have more health then Thieves.

If the thief comes from behind, your chances of winning are a lot lower, but if your dying from a thief whose coming charging head on against you, you are obviously doing something wrong.

The Backstab build is not OP, over-wise Anet would have nerfed backstab and not Assasin Signet and we would be seeing 5 backstab thieves all around in tPvP.

Daendur.2357:

A couple of days ago I was roaming and I found a lonely person. I engaged and killed him (stomped). A few seconds after that, another one came and started to fight me. I went to stealth and he immediately turned off and he started to ress his mate. O_O
He basically said “please backstab me!” and of course I did it.
So yes, some players are less smart than AI.

This. The amount of times people start ressing when they see a thief stealth is too kitten high!

10 seconds? I think you have your traits mixed up, that’s thrill of the crime.

how does one hit 28k?

Must be fun to create posts here and pull numbers out of thin air…. let me try it…. I hit a over 100k on rabbits… well that was boring… Honestly I thought it was against the rules of the forum to troll. Anet may need to lock a lot things in this sub forum :/

There are plenty of classes that can dish out plenty of damage in a few seconds, my warrior for example and this almost 12k Eviscerate hit (screenie is about 6 days old now but its not uncommon for me to crit 8-9k with it and as I don’t use assassins signet it is my second highest hit in spvp with 12.4k on a frenzied warrior with a backstab being my highest) and this is with a character with more base health then the thief, or the 100b warrior, or a Mind Wrack mesmer and the Haste PW thief build among more builds that can give off nice burst damage with opponents having little to no chance if they are unprepared (and the latter 2 are PBAoE! and can potentially down the unsuspecting fools next to the target).

I have played ALL 8 classes in at least sPvP and I’d say that the thief is not OP.

No giving people ideas :P

t depends on what server you go to… had 5 mesmers in the opposing team just 30 mins ago, earlier today had a team with 4 thieves and on my team 4 engineers. In all we would need more data before drawing any conclusions :P

aaron.4317:

My thief is ridiculously overpowered.

I can kill in basically 1 round of combat, any class.

I can stay in stealth, essentially forever.

I can out run, any class.

I can escape, any class.

But in all seriousness what profession

People defending this profession as not OP are trolling.

Armor, you have none.

You possibly also just stand there waiting for the backstab to hit you… please move….

and also get a stunbreaker, everyone should have one.

Daecollo.9578:

Ok… link a screenshot of your thief in full berserker gear doing 30k damage, show me the combat log please, I wanna see your thief doing this, not someone else attacking you.

Tbh I’m curious about this also

This screenie was taken yesterday, tbh I was surprised when I saw the ele had a big splat of over 10k from eviscerate

I like Lan bet no nerf.

You might want to have a bit more then 10k health…. but who am I too judge, I haven’t done WvW with my Guardian

It is called shadow refuge for a reason :P

Many other ways are better then stealth, mist stomp, stability stomp, stomp with quickness, I think they should just remove the downed state from pvp though.

I have heard in WvW that there is a bug which when a thief leaves stealth to his opponent he is still stealthed for another 2 or so seconds, as you probably know if the thief is truly stealthed the capture progress bar for supply camps etc. (don’t know what its called) will move towards the favour of your team and stop moving once the thief is unstealthed

That spinning attack that heals is 2 things at work, if you notice on thief he should have a blue signet, signet of malice which every time he hits he is healed, the spinning attack is the thief elite skill Dagger storm,which along to its decent damage when there is a lot of players grouped together it cripples and causes bleeding on you. It is hard to kill them due to the stealth bug.

Again if the stealth bug is true (I don’t personally WvW much so I have never tested it) then your teammates where right in shouting Exploits. As a thief or anyone who is stealthed will not contribute to capturing a point while he/she is stealthed (at least in the mists)

I agree with the mobility on the sb being a problem…. I would not mind if they switched it to 8-10 initiative and increased the range to 1200. (I wish thiefs had all shortbow skills at 1200)

He can hit you with heartseeker at best(that’s 9 initiative gone) but keeping it would be hard and he would have to hit black powder once his stealth ended which is most likely the “Poof” you hear, thieves do have some traits in the shadow arts branch that could facilitate this, (1 more second of stealth, regen initiative faster during stealth ) and he has to let his stealth run out before he can hit another black powder (this would be used to bypass the revealed effect so as opposed to waiting 3s to restealth he only waits 0.5)

I agree with everything said, especially the GS horrible :/

Sounds like a bug, as if you hit anyone while stealthed it should give you the 3 second debuff (Revealed) he could also be using black powder and heartseeker
(Smoke field +leap= stealth) and if the heartseeker hits he will still remain stealthed. As for spamming cloak and dagger would not work as he still would receive Revealed.

As said above use decoy, its a stunbreak also I believe and when I am mesmer and go against a back-stabby thief I tend to decoy then Mirror Images, Illusionary leap, swap and then blurred frenzy with Mind Wrack for big damage which should kill any of those of those glassy thieves or at severely damage him.