Guild Wars 2

Bsgapollo.5364:

So they recently nerfed that invulnerability wouldn’t provide anything to the capture point contribution. Yet here you are asking that stealth should have some what an effect on what’s 10 times stronger and more spammable then invul will ever be. Okay, seems reasonable..

10 times stronger? Are you sure we’re playing the same game?

Stealth != invulnerable

It’s easy as kitten to kill stealthed Thieves, most players just cbf learning how.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

you wanna contest a point, you fight like a man, not stealth like a kitten.

Fight like a man? Dude, it’s a video game, grow up.

I would support a change to allow stealth to contest points without any handicaps. If a Thief is taking a point in stealth it’s no different to a Thief taking a point out of stealth. Once you stand on the point, it’s no longer ticking in his teams favour.

Honestly, I’ve never understood why Thieves can’t cap in stealth already.

If you’d taken 5 seconds to read this forum you’d know that they’re being nerfed next patch.

/thread

Ignore the troll, with the exception of the crap about Anet bias, what Excalibur said is right.

Infusion of Shadow currently returns 2 initiative on every stealth application, this allows Thieves to gain pseudo-permanent stealth by gaining more initiative than is spent when using the black powder + heartseeker combo. The nerf is going to make it so that it won’t give initiative if you’re already in stealth.

Correction everyone: IR hasn’t been able to break stun in months, they nerfed that already. The reason the nerf is bad is because it kills the mobility of S/D Thieves which are already glassy as kitten as it is. It removes our ability to IR stomp and it removes our ability to return to safety if we are focussed too heavily.

It’s not an infinite get out of jail free card, it costs 5 initiative for goodness sake. What they should do instead is lower the return availability time to 10 instead and see what affect it had. If it was stilll good then lowering it again would be fine.

Also, it’s not just this nerf that matters, it’s the nerf to.initiative that Anet are wrongly calling a 33% buff to all builds that matters most.

All serious PvP players know that the Warrior class has the highest skill cap in the game and needs some serious buffs before it’s going to be viable in the current cc-condi-bunker heavy meta. The kids who cry that the class needs to be nerfed have no idea and are just jumping on the bandwagon by not rolling Warriors because they enjoy rolling their faces across the keyboards.

tl;dr: Warriors are UP and need some serious buffs, duh!

Wow… people are still QQing about Thief? In November 2013?

Wow.

I think that Anet has finally realised that unless they begin being more transparent about everything, the PvP community will just get worse. I’m glad that they realised it sooner rather than later, even if it should have been like this from the start.

That being said, I really can’t wait for the next State of the Game, I miss those.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Enemy-Players-on-Minimap-thoughts-and-gripe/

Writetyper.1985:

Incurafy.6329:

a t s e.9614:

The people that hate skyhammer refuse to adapt their build . Bring CC and stability , I know you give up on some stuff but knocking people off the cliff is fun . Skyhammer is my favourite map and I don’t want it to be removed it from the game . I always win on skyhammer , 75% W\L ratio on that map , it’s where my build shines , a full CC warrior

Please remind me where my CC and Stability comes from as a Thief? I seem to have misplaced them!

Thieves next to engis are the main offenders of the annoying “lel scorpion wire into imob on glass panel” kitten.

That’s literally the ONLY utility that we can use to abuse the terrible design of this map, and you still haven’t pointed out where my Stability to counter the “insert word here” players who do that comes from. :P

After playing for a few hours and getting mostly Skyhammer, I’m done. From this point onwards I will be leaving every single Skyhammer match I get, regardless of whether or not this created 4v5s, I refuse to waste 10 minutes of my time praying to FSM that the match is a quick blowout so that I can leave.

For goodness sake, Anet, we love the fact that you tried to improve the map, but the map itself is just so horribly flawed that it should NOT be in Solo Q; you removed it from Team Q for a reason! ;\

a t s e.9614:

The people that hate skyhammer refuse to adapt their build . Bring CC and stability , I know you give up on some stuff but knocking people off the cliff is fun . Skyhammer is my favourite map and I don’t want it to be removed it from the game . I always win on skyhammer , 75% W\L ratio on that map , it’s where my build shines , a full CC warrior

Please remind me where my CC and Stability comes from as a Thief? I seem to have misplaced them!

Maugetarr.6823:

evilapprentice.6379:

I don’t see why the dev’s don’t sit down and do some math.

I’m sure there exists a way to tune the Direct damage Vital shot does so that
- In a power crit setup, the bulk of the damage comes from Vital shot itself, but it does slightly less than comparable skills, which is made up for by the low damage bleed you get (low damage because you’re power/crit focused, not condition focused)
- In a condition setup, the bulk of the damage comes from Bleeding, but the ability doesn’t do the kitten poor damage it does now.

Then you do the same thing with unload – by having it apply torment, bleed, burning, whatever.

Viola – you’ve solved the bulk of P/P’s problems (it still has very poor defense options for a thief weaponset, but one problem at a time), and turned P/P into a versatile weaponset – something that works well for Power/crit setups, for condition setups, and hell, even for hybrid setups!

Make the auto attack faster with the same damage. Put vulnerability on the auto attack instead of bleeding (up to 8 stacks naturally). Lengthen the bleeds on sneak attack (p/p ain’t using it). Put poison on pistol 2 to make up for some of the lost bleeds and knock down regen. Decrease the number of shots by 2 on unload and increase the damage of the remaining ones accordingly to maintain the same damage but make it burstier.

Results (hopefully):
Decent direct damage that doesn’t require initiative and increases over time.
Vuln application for team play.
A method to knock down regen on tanks
Burst damage separated by the need to maintain vuln stacks.
Same condition damage + 1 more damaging condition
Vuln stacks set up for close combat burst.
Less susceptible to retal

Meanwhile, you would kill the already pitiful damage of P/D by almost completely removing it’s main source of damage (bleed application on VS).

Yes, that’s the gist of it. For that 0.75s you are essentially invulnerable to incoming damage. Also note that if you dodge while running forward you won’t have moved any further than if you had not dodged, so don’t waste endurance unless you’re a Thief with at least 5 points in Acrobatics for swiftness on dodge and want to gain it.

Dodge is instant cast, it (usually) cancels any active ability and takes priority, and evades all incoming skills for the duration of its animation. The more you can dodge, the more you can actively mitigate damage.

EDIT: Thief #3 evades don’t give boons, they give you a small duration of their animation in which you evade all incoming damage, the same as a dodge. The difference is that a dodge is instant cast and takes priority. Both give you “evade” frames.

I’m not honestly not sure if you’re trolling or not. I am more than happy to give you some proper advice if you’re not, but some of the things that you just said sound pretty sarcastic/trolly. :S

Buzzcrave.6197:

Funny thing is all the qq on thief is because the abuse of permastealth d/p in WvW, so you sPvP players that keep on saying d/p is still good in sPvP can shut your pile hole, because no one give a kitten.

Actually, whether you like it or not, those of us who play the stat-balanced game mode where skill takes priority over gear (-COUGH-) care, so don’t go telling people what they can and can’t post. The fact is that in WvW D/P will still be one of our best weapon sets, regardless of whether or not pseudo-permastealth is possible or not.

Sanduskel.1850:

I kill enemies with regen all the time, so I don’t agree with you. This patch only nerf the scrub builds that rely on perma stealth. Perma stealth was an abuse of the mechanics. It’s been fixed. I like these changes.

1. Only scrubs call winning builds scrub builds.
2. The patch nerfs evasion builds to genius.

Wtf lmao… wow.

Fun is purely subjective. I love fighting other Thieves, therefore your whole thread is wrong.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Here is a list of things that you should nerf:
13, Inf Strike – not moving people to somewhere without line of sight
14, Larcenous strike – remove evasion from flanking strike
15, feline grace – add 10s icd
16, Shadows refuge – cooldown

13. Agreed, but only if the range is dramatically increased and shadow stepping is fixed so that you don’t get caught on a pebble. If it were nerfed, it would be changed to how shadow steps work, and that’s exactly what happens to shadow step.
14. Yeah, no, #3 having evade is a part of 4/6 of the Thief weapon sets, and nobody spams Flanking Strike just for the evade any more. The double S/D build died months ago. The evasion on FS is the only thing letting Thieves help in team fights.
15. You’ve got to be kidding me, that’s just insane. The Thief class is supposed to be the most evasive, and you want to completely destroy its most evasive trait? No thanks, if it was to be nerfed then a 2s ICD at MOST would suffice just fine, and even that is severe.
16. It already has a 60s CD, lmao.

Seriously OP, I would be willing to bet that you don’t even play half of the professions if your Thief suggestions are anything to go by, lol.

I have no idea what my ping is, but I’m in Kaizer’s boat, I live in Australia (next door) and I am able to play just fine. I do notice the lag occasionally, but if you’re persistent it’s nothing game breaking and you can still compete with people local to NA/EU.

Gele.2048:

Incurafy.6329:

kastro.5842:

^
Arena!!! 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, etc. Using our own equips (not spvp equips). No other objective than killing the other player/team.
We need something like that desperately.

Why would you want to use your own equipment? That makes absolutely no sense and is against the spirit of skill-based PvP that GW2 strives for.

cuz thac the thing that is killing the s pvp no progresion none its just stupid its like playing dress up game over and over for what ? finishers hell no something that will req some sort of effort even grind to get depending on rank and honor points

I disagree, I think what is killing sPvP is the lack of different game modes, the spammy metas, and the lack of frequent balance patches. There is progression in the form of ranks and cosmetic skins, just not enough of it, and that is supposed to be changing soon.

The whole point of having the same equipment in sPvP is so that everyone is on an even playing field and the result is determined by skill and builds, not gear.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

@Incurafy.6329
-Hotjoin is fine as it is. just make another hotjoin

-Next suggestions are more ego stroking then promoting gamemodes tbh.
But yeah “Incurafy.6329’s team won glory for our realm sounds nice” ^^

-Elitist armor sounds aweful tbh. just make it obtainable when you reach certain levels even as a casual after 2 years playing or something. i think most people won’t like climbing ranks like that and would create the same block for players as HA did.( R.10+ or @tf0 remember.)

How is hotjoin fine as it is? Also, what do you mean by make another hotjoin? There are already 5v5 hotjoin arenas, but because of the lack of a proper tutorial, they’re just as zergy as the 8v8’s.

Well, they’re not supposed to be entirely ego stroking, more encouraging people to get into PvP, but that is kind of the point. PvP is all about winning for a lot of people and rewards for winning encourages competition. It’s a win win all around.

It’s not really elitist armour, it’s just armour that shows off that you’re a good player. If the leaderboards worked properly you wouldn’t be in the top 100 unless you were actually one of the best 100 players in NA/EU, meaning that competitive players are rewarded for their skill and determination. Having lower ranked unique armours is also necessary for obvious reasons, that’s why I mentioned it.

I do remember the HA rank limits, but I’m sure that Anet can find some sort of workaround to stop that from happening, but teams already don’t want people under r30/40/50 unless you can prove that you’re good enough.

kastro.5842:

^
Arena!!! 1v1, 2v2, 3v3, etc. Using our own equips (not spvp equips). No other objective than killing the other player/team.
We need something like that desperately.

Why would you want to use your own equipment? That makes absolutely no sense and is against the spirit of skill-based PvP that GW2 strives for.

Before you start implementing new game modes, I honestly think that the following should be priority, as outlined better in this thread:

1. Make hotjoin 5v5, encourage team work and capturing/defending points (#2 will help with this).
2. Create a proper tutorial, the current one doesn’t teach new players how to do practically anything.
3. Each time the meta changes, update the default builds to match the meta so that new players have a decent build! I really don’t want to sound insulting, but the current default builds are terrible, and I have witnessed many hotjoin players running them because they don’t know any better.

Next, you need to encourage the PvE and WvW population to come to PvP. I think this can be done by:

1. Announcing the winners of TeamQ tournaments in chat globally across every game mode, just like you used to do in GW1! What actually got me into PvP in GW1 was seeing this pop up all the time and I wanted to know what the hell it was and how I could get my name on it.
2. Introduce prestigious awards for high ranking PvP players, again, just like in GW1 with the Bronze/Silver/Gold trimmed Guild Capes. It would also help to actually have guild capes, I don’t even understand why they’re not in GW2, personally.
3. Introduce unique armours that can be worn in PvE (via transmutation stones or something, I’m sure you guys would be able to figure this one out) but are ONLY obtainable in PvP by winning high end tournaments and being ranked in the top 100 on the leaderboards. You can also create unique armours for lower achievements, but the best armours should come from the top.

Assuming that this increases the population dramatically, then you should introduce new game modes. I don’t know how you guys feel about this, but I personally feel that unless the population of people doing Solo/TeamQ’s dramatically increases, splitting the competitive playerbase between game modes is only going to have a serious detrimental affect on PvP in GW2.

Finally, my preferred game modes, AFTER the aforementioned has all been done and the population has increased.

1. 1v1, 2v2, and 3v3 death match
2. 8v8 Capture the Flag WITH a Guild Lord (make it self-healing to replicate having a Monk in GW1, since obviously we can’t heal it in a clutch moment like we could back then).
3. 5v5 King of the Hill with a flag that gets you extra points for bringing it to the hill node when it’s in your control, no extra points if it’s not (similar to Spirit Watch).
4. XvX GvG death match with an open field and some pillars and stuff for LoS/tactical play. X being 10, 15, or 20, depending on what you guys come up with.

EDIT: The modified GW1 GvG outlined by PowerBottom sounds absolutely brilliant. That can be added as #5 on my list. :P
EDIT2: PLEASE DON’T MAKE A MOBA MODE! If I wanted to play a MOBA I’d go play a MOBA. I want to play Guild Wars 2, not League of Legends. It’s an absolutely terrible idea and the last thing you want to do is just make a GW2 MOBA… argh.

I also agree, your casting has definitely improved, and I like the fact that you draw on the map now, it really does add another element to it.

May I suggest that you make the map slightly larger so that you can zoom in by just a fraction? At times it was a little hard to properly make out the profession icons, but it may have just been me.

Also, props to you for keeping the info over the chat box as small as you can, watching the casts where that crap covers one quarter of the screen is almost impossible because it’s so distracting.

I look forward to future casts. (Y)

I agree with you completely, Evil, but it’s an MMO forum, this is what happens on practically every MMO that has ever been made.

“Class X is OP!”
“Class Y is destroying the game!”
“Class Z’s mechanic is broken!”

It sucks, but you’re never going to change that, it’s just what happens when people have a sense of entitlement, bias towards their own profession, and can’t manage to defeat a certain build or profession without help. Their thought process instantly turns to “this must be OP”, not “I must learn how to counter this”.

Locuz.2651:

Incurafy.6329:

Judging by your lack of experience with dealing with Thieves and your unfounded beliefs in regards to their abilities, I would say that yes, I have more PvP experience than you. I don’t need to be a top 10 PvP player to draw the personal conclusion that you are too inexperienced to make valid arguments against the TTK in this game.

The story is about the first hit and how you cant avoid that if he sneaks up to you with stealth. Even the best player in the world cant avoid that if he doesnt know that that player is inc. Stop being stupid.

It has nothing to do with experience.

Incurafy.6329:

As for situational awareness, I don’t believe that I need to make a video. When you’re fighting someone, look around every now and then to make sure that they don’t have any reinforcements coming in. This is important whether you’re in a small skirmish in WvW, a zerg fight in WvW, or a small skirmish on a point in PvP. It’s something that you probably already do without even thinking about it. If you’re not doing it, then you’re tunnelling, and that’s bad in ANY PvP game from CS to DOTA2.

I played pvp games for like 15 years mostly at a high level. I never had any issues to get high rated and i never had any issues with my awareness. Just to name a random example: i have 7+ classes at 2200-2600 in wow including about 2 million honour kills spread across my characters. I played aom before that in the top 10 worldwide and played in the GGL for cash to name another example.

I doubt you have the same experience, but please enlighten me.

I actually do have similar experience with other games, but it’s irrelevant so I’ll spare you the details.

As I expected then, you do know what situational awareness is. What you seem to refuse to acknowledge is that a Thief can’t approach you in stealth, it doesn’t work like that.

Again though I don’t even know why you’re arguing wiith me at this point. I have already explained to you several times why I drew the personal conclusion that you invalidated your own thread, but apparently what I say doesn’t really matter, so what the hell is the problem?

Because spamming the forum is always productive, right?

Locuz.2651:

Ofcourse you are in a great position to be make valid statements about the TTK in this game. You have far more proper pvp experience in this game and in other games etc. Right? Youve been pushing for top 10 spots in several games, played tournaments and lead some of the best premade pvp teams in the world right?

Judging by your lack of experience with dealing with Thieves and your unfounded beliefs in regards to their abilities, I would say that yes, I have more PvP experience than you. I don’t need to be a top 10 PvP player to draw the personal conclusion that you are too inexperienced to make valid arguments against the TTK in this game.

Locuz.2651:

Tell me how to play an engineer vs a thief? And how to be situational aware like you ofc? Maybe you can stream some footage of the master of awareness. doing his thing.

It would be really cool

I don’t play an Engineer so I don’t know what utilities and skills to use against a Thief, that is not my area of knowledge. If you would like some advice on what to do as an Engineer, either post in the Engineer forums with specific questions, or post in the Thief forum with specific questions. As long as you’re not rude about it, you will receive loads of help, as I said earlier.

As for situational awareness, I don’t believe that I need to make a video. When you’re fighting someone, look around every now and then to make sure that they don’t have any reinforcements coming in. This is important whether you’re in a small skirmish in WvW, a zerg fight in WvW, or a small skirmish on a point in PvP. It’s something that you probably already do without even thinking about it. If you’re not doing it, then you’re tunnelling, and that’s bad in ANY PvP game from CS to DOTA2.

Locuz.2651:

Btw is this you on thief? http://www.twitch.tv/helsethgw2/c/1935123

That nub helseth lulz if only he was as aware as Incurafy. If he was he probably wouldve been an MLG tournament winner by now. Oo

That’s an example of someone not using a stunbreak. Helseth is well and truly capable of countering that, so I really don’t know why he didn’t eight months ago when that video was made, which incidentally, is roughly around the time that Jinzu’s Backstab build was incredibly popular.

I also died to that a lot when it came out, but then I learned what to do, and now I counter that crap 24/7 with a single Shadow Step, Shadow Return (from Infiltrator’s Strike which I always have up) or Infiltrator’s Signet. It’s not hard, and any player can do it.

I don’t even know why you’re still trying to argue with me any more. I said that it’s my opinion that you invalidated your entire thread with those posts and now you’re trying to argue… what, exactly? That my opinion is wrong? I really don’t get it, lol.

Locuz.2651:

Incurafy.6329:

You’re acting like an 8 year old, well done.

Im taking things out of context like you did in my thread you mean? The offer still stands though. If you need help with your issues in pvp. I wouldnt mind helping you at all.

I didn’t take anything in your thread out of context, but let’s leave that argument to your thread instead of attempting to derail mine for no reason.

Maderas.9741:

I don’t have a stunbreak, no. I don’t need a stunbreak when fighting any other class in the game because I have 22,000 HP and nearly 2,800 armor. Not even hammer warriors are capable of stunlocking me to death in the span of a couple seconds, which really says a lot.

I LOL’d so hard.

This conversation is over, you’re absolutely hilarious. Here’s a tip, carry a stunbreaker and stop lying, it’s bad for your argument.

Maderas.9741:

No. You do not break 3k armor running full medium exotic Dire + rabid accessories. You are wrong.

You didn’t say that you were wearing Rabid at any point in your OP, and that’s what I’m going by.

Maderas.9741:

I WAS DOWNED BEFORE I GOT HIT BY THE SECOND C&D. I CANNOT MAKE THIS ANY CLEARER, SO PLEASE ALLOW IT TO REGISTER THIS TIME.

The whole “the time it took for the thief to get in range” bit is ridiculous, too. It’s not difficult for a thief to get in range of you during a team skirmish or when he runs up on you while you’re fighting someone else. So because I lack prescience and couldn’t use ESP to detect the incoming thief, I deserve to die instantly despite my gear? Right.

I haven’t read the whole thread, forgive me for going off of your OP and the first few posts. Perhaps you should be a little more specific next time, eh?

The time for the Thief to get in range is related to the fact that while you were preoccupied fighting you still should have looked around every now and then to check to see if your enemy had any reinforcements coming. This is a simple tactic that is known as “situational awareness”.

Now, if you were downed before you got hit by the second CnD, then why did you keep saying “30k damage in an instant!!111” earlier in your thread, when in reality, it was 20k?

Also, I don’t know if you’ve answered this or not, but were you carrying a stun breaker, and was it off CD?

Maderas.9741:

I’ve never once claimed to have over 3000 armor or toughness, so I really have no idea what you’re even talking about. Again, you are wrong. My OP had the combat log, and I listed what equipment I was using. I’m not taking individual screenshots of every single piece of equipment + tooltip so you all can immediately start accusing me of finding them online, doctoring them, or having taken them on a different character. Like I said, it’s already been established that you will keep moving the goalposts to support your viewpoints. Why should I waste the effort?

I also like how my reaction window keeps shrinking. First it was seven or eight seconds, then five or six, now you’re saying four. I suppose now you’re going to start trilling about how I got hit by Cloak and Dagger twice.

Yes you did, lmao…

This is running full Toughness/Vitality exotics with ascended trinkets.

Also, I never said that you had any more than four seconds to react, other people said that. Judging by the, again, almost non-existent information you gave in the OP (a combat log screenshot doesn’t count, and I’m not asking you to post individual everythingz, just a screenshot of your gear + stats with the combat log, you on the ground dead would also help, but isn’t necessary), assuming you weren’t killed after the first combo, you had at least three more seconds to react after the combo was done, and that’s not even including the time that it took for the Thief to get in range of you, use his utilities, and do the combo beforehand. The fact that you then took half of an auto chain and ANOTHER CnD to die means that you clearly had plenty of time to react to the situation.

Also, regardless of what you may think, most other classes are capable of similar burst on an unaware opponent. A Fresh Air elementalist would have been able to do the exact same thing to you, but I don’t see you kittening in their forum.

Maderas.9741:

Sifu.6527:

Maderas.9741:

All of this damage was done in the span of about two to three seconds. I was dead before I even had a chance to react. This is running full Toughness/Vitality exotics with ascended trinkets.

Explain to me why this is allowed. And before you launch into the usual “glass cannon” blanket justification, any DP/shortbow thief worth their weight in salt is pretty much impossible to catch with the stealth spam even in full Berserker’s… so that’s a moot point.

I’m going to call BS that you have over 3K toughness.

Assuming all Berz gear and all ascended pieces, 25 stack of might, and 250 power from sigil stack, 60 bloodlust, his power will be at 3455.

The damage formula is 3455*wpn (1030 for ascended) = 3558650 *2.4 skill coef = 8540760 / armor 3000 = 2846.92 * damage increase 60% = kitten * crit damage 120% = 10021 total damage.

Basically, I just proved that you’re a liar.

Thanks,

And another thief wholly incapable of reading joins the fray. Once again, I never said I have over 3,000 toughness; I said I’m running full Dire exotics with Rabid ascended trinkets.

And another person wholly incapable of reading that he meant 3000 armour (as seen in the calculations), not toughness, which is exactly what you claim to have had.

I’m not even going to bother replying to your previous post, it’s just so full of bullkitten that it would be a waste of my time to even try and reason with you.

How about next time you take a screenshot of the entire screen, including your equipment and stats so that we can actually know what the hell you’re talking about? Your OP had literally no information and then you got all defensive and cried foul when you were called out on your bullkitten.

I also find it absolutely hilarious that you refuse to acknowledge the fact that you weren’t killed without time to react and had at LEAST four seconds to react, lol.

Learn to play, it’s as simple as that.

Maderas.9741:

Somebody mentioned Static Discharge engineers hitting as hard as thieves upthread. I’d say that’s highly debatable, but even if it’s true, the golden difference here is that an SD engineer sacrifices every ounce of survivability they possess in order to attain that damage. Apparently thieves have become so entitled now that they don’t consider stealth a survivability skill.

That’s exactly what Thieves do, but you’ve completely ignored all attempts to explain that to you.

Based on the almost non-existent information you’ve given us, OP, the build used against you was likely something like this:

http://intothemists.com/calc/?build=-c33V;1ZwV0-K5VOFd0;9;4OT;0E28-17A;44;05BW4;2G3G3G3G35BP

Now, please do explain to me how the Thief stealthed and got away with ease using that build after killing you because you weren’t carrying a stunbreaker and don’t know how to dodge.

Maderas.9741:

Incurafy.6329:

You didn’t die in a few seconds, OP, because it took at LEAST 4 seconds to kill you. You were hit by the CnD > Steal > Backstab combo, and assuming you didn’t die at that point (we have no way of knowing because your OP is full of crap and offers no evidence other than a tiny screenshot of some damage numbers in chat), the Thief had to wait THREE MORE SECONDS BEFORE HE COULD USE CLOAK AND DAGGER A SECOND TIME. AGAIN, THAT’S THREE SECONDS.

THREE.
THREE.
THREE.

Learn to play.

I’ve answered this twice now. Learn to read.

No, actually, you haven’t. Learn to play, I’m sick of these pathetic threads like yours.

You didn’t die in a few seconds, OP, because it took at LEAST 4 seconds to kill you. You were hit by the CnD > Steal > Backstab combo, and assuming you didn’t die at that point (we have no way of knowing because your OP is full of crap and offers no evidence other than a tiny screenshot of some damage numbers in chat), the Thief had to wait THREE MORE SECONDS BEFORE HE COULD USE CLOAK AND DAGGER A SECOND TIME. AGAIN, THAT’S THREE SECONDS.

THREE.
THREE.
THREE.

Learn to play.

Guys, ignore Burnfall. He has been established as a troll and I seriously wish that Anet would ban him already. He doesn’t do anything but troll and posts nothing valuable or productive in any of his posts.

Locuz.2651:

Incurafy.6329:

This is where I take issue with you and your obvious lack of experience. There is no such thing as a Thief that you don’t see coming if you’re actually paying attention to your surroundings. There is plenty of counter-play, the only time that a Thief will be able to burst you unexpectedly will be during a fight with another player where you’re focussed on the fight, and that’s when the Thief who bursts you is doing exactly what they’re supposed to do.

If you’re actually having trouble with Backstab Thieves then you have a lot of learning to do. I would seriously suggest politely posting in the Thief forum with context and details and we’ll be more than happy to help you learn how to counter us.

I’m sorry if you think that I’m getting off topic, but you asked me to explain how I think you’ve invalidated your own thread, and that was my answer.

This isnt a thread about thieves. Youre literally picking a random example and treat it as if its the thing i complain about.

So youre either attempting to troll or unable to read simple posts. Im assuming the first, but ill bite:

I DONT have issues with backstab thieves at all. I win pretty much all my 1v1s vs thieves (and quite a few 1vs2) with little to no issues.

This thread isnt about that though….it is about the way dmg is applied and how bigger damage quite often is applied instantly with relatively little counterplay. This is a cross profession issue and not only related to thieves or warriors or….

I’m sorry if this is too hard for you to understand, Locus, but it’s as simple as this…

According to this post:

Locuz.2651:

If a thief backstabs me from stealth …. he basicly lands an attack that removes half of my HP before I can react. There is no counterplay to that…..unless youre a psychic or took a lucky guess and dodged/turned at the right time.

… and this post:

Locuz.2651:

Tell me…how would you avoid the first attack from a thief if you didnt see him coming? Are you like randomly dodging and jump turning for no reason constantly? Just in a case a thief pops up?

… you have no idea how to counter Thieves, one of the biggest examples you gave of a very low TTK. This means that, in my opinion, you completely invalidated your own thread by admitting that you’re too inexperienced to make valid arguments against the TTK in this game.

Furthermore, this part of your post:

Locuz.2651:

I DONT have issues with backstab thieves at all. I win pretty much all my 1v1s vs thieves (and quite a few 1vs2) with little to no issues.

… is a blatant lie that directly contradicts your aforementioned posts. If you didn’t have any issue with Thieves then you wouldn’t believe that a Thief can approach you in stealth and hit you with an attack that can take half of your HP before you can react, you wouldn’t believe that there is “no counter-play” and you certainly wouldn’t believe that you have to be a psychic to avoid the damage or have to jump and doge around randomly for no reason.

In other words, you admitted to having no idea what you’re talking about when it comes to one of your biggest examples, admitted to not being able to counter them, and then lied and contradicted your previous posts.

You are in no position to make valid arguments against the TTK in this game, and that is my conclusion based on the posts that you have made in this thread. I really can’t explain this to you any more clearly, so I sincerely hope that your reading comprehension has improved.

Now, all of that being said, the TTK in this game is too low in some circumstances, but in my opinion that’s an issue with passive traits and instant cast abilities, not the level of damage capable of being dealt.

Locuz.2651:

Its a common issue that people who are relatively new to pvp have issues with their understanding positioning and when to and when not engage in fight. Having bigger teamfights obviously makes it really hard for people like the OP who are new to pvp.

Incurafy.6329:

PvP that I don’t really understand

I suggest you either ask for tips how to improve as a player (awareness poisitioning etc) on these forums. Or you can always whisper me in game incurafy if you want some tips from a real pvp veteran (multigame tournament level pvpplayer here)

You seem to have issues with your build aswell which is quite common for new players. If you want i can ask some high rated thief friends of mine to help you out on that one.

You’re acting like an 8 year old, well done.

Honestly, it’s so ridiculously obvious that it’s an issue with PvP that I don’t really understand how anyone can ignore it, least of all Anet who are trying to grow the PvP player base as the top end rapidly shrinks in size.

They’ve already said that we will be getting double reward chests from tournaments for the first two weeks after the Halloween events… what I would like to know is why we can’t just get that now, lol.

Locuz.2651:

-snip-

If a thief backstabs me from stealth …. he basicly lands an attack that removes half of my HP before I can react. There is no counterplay to that…..unless youre a psychic or took a lucky guess and dodged/turned at the right time.

Tell me…how would you avoid the first attack from a thief if you didnt see him coming? Are you like randomly dodging and jump turning for no reason constantly? Just in a case a thief pops up?

This is where I take issue with you and your obvious lack of experience. There is no such thing as a Thief that you don’t see coming if you’re actually paying attention to your surroundings. There is plenty of counter-play, the only time that a Thief will be able to burst you unexpectedly will be during a fight with another player where you’re focussed on the fight, and that’s when the Thief who bursts you is doing exactly what they’re supposed to do.

If you’re actually having trouble with Backstab Thieves then you have a lot of learning to do. I would seriously suggest politely posting in the Thief forum with context and details and we’ll be more than happy to help you learn how to counter us.

I’m sorry if you think that I’m getting off topic, but you asked me to explain how I think you’ve invalidated your own thread, and that was my answer.

It’s an issue caused by the fact that there is no real tutorial, hotjoin is the opposite of GW2’s actual PvP, and the default builds given to new players are absolute rubbish.

Valvador.4291:

Incurafy.6329:

roamzero.9486:

Incurafy.6329:

Celestial gear is absolutely terrible for a Thief, as explained thoroughly by Wish in this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Celestial-Armor/first#post2424729

His main beef with it seems to be as a purely direct damage set. For full celestial you’d want to use P/D, or maybe in a D/D deathblossom build, mixing direct damage with condition damage.

That’s still going to be useless, hybrid Thieves don’t work, and if you wanted to try one you would try and mix Berserker and Carrion or something, not full Celestial. If you’re using a condition build, then what on earth is the point of the power, precision, and crit damage?

I wouldn’t waste your time or money on Celestial gear, OP, there are much better alternatives for every build.

I highly disagree with this fact because unlike going FULL condition damage, doing Hybrid still benefits condition builds in the fact that you STILL ALWAYS DEAL direct damage on ALL of your skills, and having them less useless always benefits you.

I’ll be able to talk more once I do a better numbers test.

Carrion gives you power, you don’t have to go full Dire and only get CD/T/V. Again, you’re wasting your time and money, but it’s yours to waste so whatever, enjoy.

Locuz.2651:

Incurafy.6329:

LOL @ you complaining about Thieves backstabbing you out of stealth. You just completely invalidated your entire thread, good job.

So if a thief uses backstab as first attack out of stealth. My thread about damage overall being over the top is invalid?

With that post you made all of your posts useless. Please go back to the wow forums with your trolling.

So if I say something that you don’t agree with, I play WoW and usually troll on the WoW forums?

/logic

You invalidated your entire thread because you went from making reasonable arguments (with the exception of backstab, and you are still yet to prove that that is possible in PvP without a gimmick build or a set up) to claiming that Thieves backstabbing from stealth is a serious problem, then claiming that you need psychic powers (which don’t exist, btw) to counter it.

In other words, you admitted to knowing too little about PvP to even begin making a solid argument about the TTK being too low.

I’m aware that it’s popular, but its current form directly counters the notion that hotjoin eases new players into PvP and teaches them how to play. It just doesn’t make sense that a game mode designed for newcomers to learn how to play doesn’t actually teach them how to play.

The lack of a real tutorial or starter builds that aren’t rubbish do nothing but exacerbate the problem.

I actually think puppies play better.

LOL @ you complaining about Thieves backstabbing you out of stealth. You just completely invalidated your entire thread, good job.

You’re right, body-blocking, damage dealing, damage absorbing AI are just visual conditions and buffs!

/logic