Guild Wars 2

Alright, that does make sense, thanks for the explanation.

Still, I agree with your last point. I don’t know where that would be useful in any situation, and using a jump-dodge to assist a disengage is just wasting valuable endurance.

If you’re in hotjoin, then don’t worry about it, go and join in on the zerg fight fun and forget about it.

In tPvP, as Valentin said, you have to know when to disengage. If you’re in a 2v1 and you are losing badly, then disengage and call for help or reinforce another point. It really does depend on what profession you play and what your role is too. As a Thief roamer, I would just flank around and cap it once they’ve moved on.

Bump, I would really like to see a dev response or at least some healthy discussion that helps the devs fix these issues.

Post it in the bugs forum, it’s obviously an unintended side effect.

roamzero.9486:

Incurafy.6329:

Celestial gear is absolutely terrible for a Thief, as explained thoroughly by Wish in this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Celestial-Armor/first#post2424729

His main beef with it seems to be as a purely direct damage set. For full celestial you’d want to use P/D, or maybe in a D/D deathblossom build, mixing direct damage with condition damage.

That’s still going to be useless, hybrid Thieves don’t work, and if you wanted to try one you would try and mix Berserker and Carrion or something, not full Celestial. If you’re using a condition build, then what on earth is the point of the power, precision, and crit damage?

I wouldn’t waste your time or money on Celestial gear, OP, there are much better alternatives for every build.

I’m interested to see this build, can you please use the following link to show us?

gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/

Thanks.

I think you both like like crap, but if I had to choose, I’d choose the one on the right just because I can’t stand massive bulky armour on Thieves.

wish.1027:

Underboob onry.

The primary of several reasons why I wish I rolled a Human instead of Sylvari, haha. :P

I love how at one point you say “and with this build I can’t even do decent damage!” and then hit for a 6.5k HB, LOL.

What exactly is the point of dodgejumping? Do you even move further? I do it all the time when I’m screwing around, but I would never try to dodge in tPvP with a dodgejump, lol…

Burst isn’t even a huge problem in the current meta, that was like two metas ago, and being hit by a 12k backstab with 2480 armour is mathematically impossible in a regular PvP situation (not sure if 25 stacks of might, bloodlust, and vuln would do it though).

If you’re talking about WvW, then what’s the problem? WvW is full of consumables, bloodlust, ascended, and all sorts of other crap that make the damage way too over the top, and even then a 12k backstab is incredibly unlikely without some sort of set up

WvW isn’t balanced on small fights, that’s what PvP is for.

Since when does any Thief run P/P? Just wondering, lol.

Test it again in the Mists with the golems, it is working the same as it always has (you do not drop stealth since Caltrops don’t do direct damage, only apply bleeding).

No, it was actually indirectly nerfed when they fixed stun and daze durations, so now the stun doesn’t even last long enough for the first hit of the flurry to land, lol. It has always had the evade during the flurry. ;P

Celestial gear is absolutely terrible for a Thief, as explained thoroughly by Wish in this thread:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Celestial-Armor/first#post2424729

As far as I understand it, hotjoin exists for two primary reasons:

1. As a place for PvP players to jump in, have some casual fun, and leave whenever they need to.
2. As a place for new PvP players to ease themselves into PvP and learn the ropes before joining the more serious Solo and Team tournament PvP.

The first reason is fine, but the second is where things begin to fall apart. Not only is hotjoin the complete opposite of what is actually required to successfully play tPvP (8 players on each team, zerging from point to point, etc), the tutorial doesn’t teach players even the most basic of PvP skills.

In the tutorials present form, it teaches players how to stomp, revive, and stand on a point, and that’s it. There is no explanation of the various player roles, no explanation that a point will not cap faster with multiple people on it, no explanation of decapping, no explanation that reviving a defeated player is much slower than a downed player, no explanation of stomp interrupts or how to counter them, no explanation of how to use the map strategy controls (drawing and pinging), etc, etc, you get the idea.

Finally, why are the default builds given to new PvP players so bad? I honestly think that most people would agree that the default builds are either complete rubbish or barely viable. I understand that the meta shifts every now and then (I think… have we ever had a meta change? It has been so long that I can’t really remember), but how hard would it be for a PvP developer to change the default builds to the most popular meta build every time the meta has a drastic change? Not only would this give players a decent build, but it would help them understand the concepts of build synergy and different roles.

To summarise:

1. Why is hotjoin 8v8 and not 5v5, just like the “real” PvP?
2. Why is the tutorial a short, non-compulsory area that teaches new players practically nothing?
3. Why are the default builds so terrible, and when they’re updated, why are they always just as terrible as the one’s that they replaced?

I really do hope to get a proper discussion going here, so thanks for any replies that aren’t trolling/abusing Anet/complaining about the current state of the game.

PizzaSHARK.2741:

Incurafy.6329:

What they need to do is nerf all of the OP builds on each profession and then work on making builds that require skill, not this spammy crap we have in the current meta.

Define “skill.” Don’t be vague.

Sure, here you go.

Can you imagine how awesome it would be if a company the size of Anet made a pure PvP game based on GW1 GvG/HA/etc with GW2 combat mechanics?

What they need to do is nerf all of the OP builds on each profession and then work on making builds that require skill, not this spammy crap we have in the current meta.

I agree with you 100%, Queen Kiearha! There’s a reason that every single last tPvP team now runs 5 Warriors, they’re the only viable profession left!

Your idea of making more build diversity is to destroy one of the professions only viable builds? That’s dome brilliant logic right there.

I think what OP is talking about is the bug that causes you to lose the stealth effect after using a shadow step. They claim to have fixed it, butit happened to me yesterday.

OP, check that you definitely don’t have revealed next time you see it happen, and try and reproduce it if you aren’t revealed. If you can reliably reproduce it, post it in the bugs forum.

Fhaeris.9237:

Myrmidian Eudoros.4671:

Rome wasn’t built in a day. They are doing what they can. Ragging them about it won’t speed up the process.

That’s true, but it’s not an excuse for doing basically nothing in 1 year.

It doesn’t help that the game was launched early and wasn’t finished when it was. There is so much unfinished content that it’s honestly just sad that Anet wasn’t given more time to finish it. When the game launched, PvP was practically non-existent, and all of the stuff that is in the game now AND MORE should have already been in it.

I really can’t wait to see what this game is going to be like when PvP is actually finished, but it’s going to be a while.

To those saying that PvP needs rewards to keep people interested, I direct you to games like Counter-Strike, Quake, Street Fighter, and Mortal Kombat, games with the biggest scenes in eSports history, NONE OF THEM HAVE REWARDS.

Rewards aren’t necessary in PvP, I don’t play PvP because I want to get some new shiny item to show off my rank, I do it for the competitive nature of PvP and I enjoy that greatly. I’m not saying that we can’t have rewards at all, but they’re not a requirement.

I don’t mean anything bad by this at all, but if you think that any of those builds with the exception of the 20/20/0/0/30 one are viable in a competitive environment then you have no idea what you’re talking about. :S

The two builds mentioned by infantrydev are the only two real viable builds that we have, and I would even go as far as to say that the 10/30/0/0/30 D/P build isn’t even that great since you don’t even have that much burst damage and hardly any survivability.

To not be a kitten and answer your questions though, the builds work roughly like this:

10/30/0/30/0 S/D + SB: Far point assaulter and roamer, uses AA, Infiltrator’s Strike and Flanking/Larcenous Strike for great sustain and mobility and to remove boons from boon bunkers. Can survive in the team fight if necessary thanks to high evasion and 30 in Acrobatics. Can also apply heavy damage and poison with SB when necessary.

10/30/0/0/30 D/P + SB: Same deal again, far point assaulter and roamer, uses burst combo to bring down low health targets and turn a fight in your teams favour. Cannot survive in the middle of the team fight but is able to apply heavy damage and poison with SB until a burst opportunity arises.

I can provide links to these builds if you’d like.

You said yourself that Heartseeker spam can be countered, so why nerf an already highly telegraphed and counterable skill? It doesn’t need a rework, it’s perfectly balanced as it is.

Nomin.5901:

I don’t mind it actually, yes it IS somewhat cheap, BUT! It changes the pace and tactics, making it different from all the other maps. And I don’t mind a bit of variety ^-^
And variety means that you cant waddle into sky hammer with 0 stability and 0 knockbacks. Just bring one or the other for then that que pops and you should be good.

I’m a Thief, please let me know where I can buy Stability and Knockbacks from, thanks.

In all seriousness, I still don’t understand why this map is in SoloQ.

1. Its secondary objective is a no skill point-and-click 10k+ damage that covers an area larger than the point itself on a short CD. At least the Trebuchet takes a bit of skill to use effectively!
2. Teleports constantly screw you over by not letting you teleport over the energy shield hole things when they get broken (meaning that you keep running forward, straight down the hole), causing any teleport stun break to be practically useless.
3. Classes who don’t have access to stability are at a huge disadvantage.
4. Most builds can’t just change in an instant to accommodate the map, there aren’t many viable builds as it is, let alone ones that offers stability, knockbacks, and fear.

Ashanor.5319:

Peow peow.2189:

RUNESCAPE – Castle wars. Man what a fun game mode…

2 bases on opposite ends, 20 minute match… you must capture the flag and run it back to your base without the enemy killing you. Requires some to defend some to attack and there are different supplys like med kits, explosives, siege that help stop the enemy.

Just sounds like CtF with a slight twist.

At its most basic, that’s essentially what it is. But considering you can have hundreds of players on each side and the map is quite large, it’s not that simple. :P

Glass burst Ele complaining about being burst down by a glass HS spamming Thief? O lawd.

The biggest issue with hotjoin, in my opinion, is the fact that it’s intended to be a place where new players can ease themselves into PvP, but it’s the complete opposite of what GW2 PvP is supposed to be about. Hotjoin is nothing but zerging from point to point without an ounce of strategy or competitiveness involved.

If you want to deal with the issues that hotjoin has, then these two things must happen:

1. Reduce the player cap to 10 on every single official server (custom arenas will obviously have the high cap). No more 8v8 zerg fests, 5v5’s only.
2. Introduce a proper tutorial for new players that you’re required to complete at least once on an account (not character, that would be terrible if you’ve already completed it) before you’re allowed to join hotjoin. At the moment, the “tutorial” that you’re given at the start is complete rubbish and you learn practically nothing of how the conquest game mode actually works.
3. Update the default builds every time the meta has a big change in direction, adding a short explanation of them if possible. This gives new players a solid build to start off with and encourages players to understand that their build is important. I’d also like to note that the current default builds are absolute rubbish, seriously.

If you want to ease new players into PvP, then actually teach them how to play PvP!

Honestly, I’ve been playing all day and late into last night and only had a single 4v5, the rest were 5v5’s.

Spirit Ranger complaining about a Minion Necro and using petting zoo as an insult? LOL.

BaconCatTheGreasy.9542:

So you’re saying it’s acceptable for one Warrior to REQUIRE a team of 5 to take them down? As it stands I only play the PVP in this game for the 4 Achievement Points a day as it is otherwise insufferable.

I’m able to 1v1 any Warrior without any problems whatsoever, so clearly you’re doing something wrong.

Whatever you do, do NOT buy Celestial gear, it’s an absolute waste of money on any profession, and you’d be much better off replacing it with Soldiers if survivability was your end goal. Valkyrie is also a waste of time on the Thief profession since you maintain higher damage with a 3 Soldier/3 Beserker split than you do using Valkyrie/Berserker.

The math behind that can be found here: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/Building-a-better-D-D-thief/

As for your goal, 100% Berserker with 25/30/0/0/15 and D/D + SB, Might on signet use and 4 signets (as shown above) will net you a hell of a lot of damage in a single CnD > Mug > Backstab combo. However, you have even less survivability than a regular glass cannon, so I personally prefer to just use Withdraw, Shadow Refuge, Shadow Step, Signet of Shadows and Basilisk Venom to maintain some utility and make for some really interesting fights since you can actually stand your ground if you’re good enough.

I’m surprised you didn’t run into 30 Thieves. They may not be at the top of the totem poll right now, but there are still plenty of people who roll them alongside the Warr/Necro/Ranger players.

What a load of crap, post your stats and some context with proof next time.

It’s a video game…

I used to be afraid of Condimancers but then I mastered the 30/30/30/30/30 D/x + S/x + P/x + SB build and now I just destroy them while evading, stealthing, stunning, stealing their books and hitting them with 12-15k Backstabs all at the same time.

I cbf doing it for you, but you should be able to find the answer to this on the Legendary page of the Wiki. I assume that off-hand gives the same effects as main-hand.

I don’t know if someone has already mentioned this, but this is exactly what has been happening in the Thief forum every day since closed beta, lol. Once a profession is deemed OP there is no end to the hilarious misinformation and outright lies that get thrown around about that profession.

According to most posts in the Thief forum, Thieves have uncounterable perma-stealth (wrong), uncounterable perma-evasion (wrong), extremely high mobility that combined with mega-ultra OP perma-stealth makes a Thief literally impossible to down (wrong), Thieves who are low on HP can stealth and go back to full health (12k+ heal in 5 seconds, wrong), and have the highest 100-0 burst in the game with the ability to do 10-15k Backstabs, and all of this with the same build.

Obviously the Warrior and Thief professions have 150 trait points and multiple weapon sets.

BurrTheKing.8571:

I want to see Eles made into bunkers that are comparable to Guardians. That class has dominated the mid bunker role since launch and it would be nice to see another class being able to do the same thing in a different way.

You mean like they were when D/D 3x cantrip Eles dominated the meta? Lol.

I agree that Eles are unbalanced, but so are most classes. The meta builds are all OP as kitten and the other builds available are barely viable because of it.

Come back 2-3 patches from now and it might be better.

Test this on the golems with auto attack turned off and then see if you can repeat it consistently.

It has been an issue for as long as I remember which is one if the reasons that nobody takes that trait.

Karolis.4261:

Frenk.5917:

I don’t like your build, I don’t like your video, I don’t even like your playstyle ^_^

Moreover, the simple fact that you think P/D is a difficult build to play with makes me laugh. It’s like, you know, 5 – 1 – 1 – 1 repeat. With the occasional use of utilities (poison venom? YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG!)

You sir, play D/P , which is totally broken in OP kind of way build (link in your video) and you have no voice in thief forums. Just doing my part of hate

Oh please, D/P is only broken if you’re a scrub who hasn’t learned how to counter stealth yet.

Newjack.8124:

Incurafy.6329:

Newjack.8124:

style.6173:

Newjack.8124:

L2P. Thieves are fine.

I take it you primarily play another class and got pwned. Unfortunately, thieves are good at killing less experienced players.

The reality is that at this point, a thief is really only good in one area: roaming in WvW. That again assumes the thief finds plays of lower quality than them.

Relax friend. I main a thief and always will. OP is clearly trolling here. First of all thief builds are fine right now for WvW. Could they be better? Sure. Could they be worse. Definitely.

-snip-

I’d just like to point out Swinks’ signature, you’re not talking to an inexperienced Thief. :P

I didn’t quote Swinks?

Oops, honest mistake, I don’t know how I read that as Swinsk, lol.

Newjack.8124:

style.6173:

Newjack.8124:

L2P. Thieves are fine.

I take it you primarily play another class and got pwned. Unfortunately, thieves are good at killing less experienced players.

The reality is that at this point, a thief is really only good in one area: roaming in WvW. That again assumes the thief finds plays of lower quality than them.

Relax friend. I main a thief and always will. OP is clearly trolling here. First of all thief builds are fine right now for WvW. Could they be better? Sure. Could they be worse. Definitely.

-snip-

I’d just like to point out Swinks’ signature, you’re not talking to an inexperienced Thief. :P

Well, unless intothemists.com and gw2skills.net are both wrong, pre-15th it included an Ambush Trap. :S

I honestly didn’t get a lot of success out of it when I screwed around in hotjoin, too many people who just keep auto-attacking. You would really only be able to do it with a tPvP team.

So I finally got around to playing my Ninja Nurse joke build, and discovered that Merciful Ambush was changed but not mentioned in the patch notes.

• Pre-patch description: Create an ambush trap while reviving an ally. Grants 2 seconds of stealth to players and their allies when beginning a revive. This effect can only occur once every 20 seconds.
• New description: Stealth yourself and your target when reviving an ally. Stealth(3s): Invisible to foes.

I could swear that MA used to actually place an Ambush Trap (the utility) and you could get a Thief NPC out of it. I tested it in PvP and it doesn’t actually place an Ambush Trap… can anyone confirm/deny that this was actually a nerf and the tooltip wasn’t just completely wrong pre-patch? Because if it was an intentional change, the time was buffed to 3 seconds to compensate, but it just seems a little odd that it was changed and not mentioned in the patch notes.

The patch notes only say this:

• Merciful Ambush: This skill now functions with the Meld with Shadows trait for the recipient of stealth.

Anyone have an answer?

We definitely need a mainhand mace and offhand sword, although these skills are just a tad OP… also, LOL @ fat little henchman, that’d just be kittening hilarious.

You’re right, I think it was actually nerfed a couple of months post beta after Jinzu’s Backstab build become popular, but I still don’t understand what they keep doing every time they “fix” it.

Also, considering it is breakable and such a short duration they seriously need to make it instant and reduce the CD to like 40, it is supposed to be an elite for goodness sake, DV has been better for a long time, you just can’t proc Lyssa with it.

I can’t comment in gear placement because that’s no my forte, but I think that the 30 in Acro is a waste. You don’t have any healing power and the healing you’re going to get from AR is not worth the 10 points. You would be better off putting 10 more into Trickery for Bountiful Theft.

Also, since you’re in WvW where the revealed duration is still 3 seconds and stealth isn’t counterintuitive, you can actually utilise a CnD > AA chain > TS combo to keep your opponent dazed for a large portion of the fight. The build you have is more of an Acrobatic stealthless Thief, but if you do something like 0/30/20/20/0 or x/30/30/x/x where the last 10 is up to you, you can very easily use a stealth build with S/D.