Guild Wars 2

But BV hasn’t been unbreakable since beta, and if you go and look through the patch notes they have “fixed” it multiple times. I have always been able to break out of it, so what the hell is the difference?

Since when did stunbreakers not work on BV? I swear they write “fixed BV so you can break it” in every patch and it doesn’t feel any different. I’ve been breaking out if BV since day one, lol.

Heizero.9183:

Incurafy.6329:

Heizero.9183:

What am i missing here? S/D is still very viable. Larcenous now just steals 1 boon less. It’s a direct nerf, sure, but it’s not as bad as a nerf as i thought it would get. Be grateful. you still have the decent init costs and the insane damage and mobility. In a week or 2 people will get over it and play it like they always did.

I agree with you that it is still viable, but what “insane damage” ars you talking about? The damage is good but it’s no where near high enough to call insane, lol.

Insane for the amount of repeatable burst on top of the utility it also wields on the same skill press. As far as utility, availability, mobility and sustainability, it’s damage is unmatched by any other skill that can do the same.

… but S/D doesn’t have burst, it has sustain… what are you talking about?

What the kitten are you kitten on about you kitten? Why I oughtta rub your belly, you’re just so kitten cute!!!

I completely agree with you, and I really wish that they would do biweekly hot fixes for game breaking bugs like the Svanir bug or Pars sigil. If something that is an obvious bug is being abused it should be patched straight away, not in the next balance patch.

pantsforbirds.9032:

ensoriki.5789:

^ Range.
Im not a fan of it though, I think it’s healthy that PW has a root. There are quite a few rooted skills in this game (Zealot defense, HB and Blurred frenzy being similar to PW and also all being rooted, not mentioning skills like Kill shot and earthquake). Rooted skills are powerful but the root keeps them realistic, while I get that they’ve made PW considerable less potent, I rather the potency go back up while keeping the root.

Edit: The dev team has made it known that they are aware of the PW issue and will look for a solution.

Can you link where devs discuss this? I would like to read it

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/WARRIORS-LEG-SPECIALIST-IS-BROKEN/first#post3038290

Brief mention.

There are already like 3 topics on this change. :P

Seriously, just stop posting these topics. You aren’t creating healthy discussion and all of your suggestions are either ridiculous nerfs or changes to skills that are already balanced. At this point all you’re doing is spamming the forum.

Haha, I’m glad to know that something I threw together in 5 minutes as a joke actually works! :P

You posted this twice.

I have a better suggestion: anyone who complains about stealth learns to play the game, and everyone else ignores them until they do.

Krayzic.4860:

Hi, I know this might be a little bit off-topic, but is it really worth it to start a thief now? I’m pretty new to this game (lvl 60 warrior in about a week), and i just decided to start a new thief. At the same time as I’m looking for hints and guidelines at the forum, I can’t help but see a lot of negativity towards the new changes to the thief, like people saying they won’t play them until they’re getting buffed again. So yeah, are there still any strong builds for thief? Is it worth it to start a thief now, or should I go for an other profession?

It’s just the regular post-patch QQ, you see it in every forum for a week or so after every patch. The Thief profession is still perfectly viable and, in my opinion, the most enjoyable profession to play.

Roll one, you won’t regret it.

Why isn’t there a UI option to make everyone human in PvP matches (normal race in hotm)? Good question.

:( I was one of the many Thieves who fell victim to it tonight. It reeks of shoddy game design and it’s just so ridiculous that I can still hardly believe that Anet actually listened to the QQing and created an unavoidable stealth counter rather than just encouraging players to learn the already existing counters.

Sigil of Paralyzation does affect Daze, it is counted as the same thing as Stun despite their very minor differences.

Nuorus.8415:

My experience after patch: in spvp my armor falls down from 2800 to 2100 for some weird reason. I will be killed in a second or two. Also found a necro who used thieves’ elite poison and torment poison but I guess a thief can share poisons now with teamates.

If I had 25% stacks of vulni I would still have more armor than exactly 2100 armor.

Thieves have always been able to share venoms, the pathetically small radius for it was made slightly better this patch so people are currently testing it out. You don’t see it after a week.

OP: It sounds like you have a classic case if Post Nerf Depression. You’re so used to being OP that you feel a lot weaker because you were indirectly nerfed. Like all temporary depressive stages, it will pass with time.

The only two things worth complaining about are the 1.5s cast time of Destroy Shadow Trap when it’s supposed to be a stunbreaker (LOL) and the indirect nerf that killed Pistol Whip that looks like more of an oversight than an intended change.

It wasn’t popular, but S/P was viable pre-patch, regardless of what you may think.

Heizero.9183:

What am i missing here? S/D is still very viable. Larcenous now just steals 1 boon less. It’s a direct nerf, sure, but it’s not as bad as a nerf as i thought it would get. Be grateful. you still have the decent init costs and the insane damage and mobility. In a week or 2 people will get over it and play it like they always did.

I agree with you that it is still viable, but what “insane damage” ars you talking about? The damage is good but it’s no where near high enough to call insane, lol.

The LS nerf didn’t kill S/D, it’s just as viable before, especially if you use a Sigil of Nullification. D/P is literally exact same, so that’s still viable. The only spec really hit hard was S/P, but I’m theorycrafting an S/P immobilize venom build atm and I think it could still be viable even if they don’t buff Pistol Whip.

P/x and D/D are still as useless as ever.

liefbread.9513:

Incurafy.6329:

liefbread.9513:

I have actually run something like this before, you can pick people up in a couple seconds, it’s the trolliest way to play and really drives some people up the wall. It’s more fun than it sounds.

I’ve never ran something like this but I’m excited to see how much fun it is to screw around with in hotjoin once I get home.

I mean you end up being effectively useless to your team.

but it sure is silly.

I wouldn’t run a build like this in real PvP, lol, just screwing around in hotjoin.

Chap/balance team: I know that you guys have been reading this forum all day, so if one of you could reply and acknowledge that you have read this thread and will be taking another look at Pistol Whip it would be greatly appreciated.

There are several threads on it now and it kind of sucks to be in the dark and not knowing if this was an intentional nerf or not. The stun now ends before the swings even begin, and that really does seem like an oversight.

Thanks.

liefbread.9513:

I have actually run something like this before, you can pick people up in a couple seconds, it’s the trolliest way to play and really drives some people up the wall. It’s more fun than it sounds.

I’ve never ran something like this but I’m excited to see how much fun it is to screw around with in hotjoin once I get home.

JinDaVikk.7291:

s/d thief can evade 2 times then trait refills enough for a 3rd. Signet of agility = 3 more dodges. shortbow 3 or sword 3 = evades on spam.

I’ve bunked 1v3 for 20+ seconds without taking a single hit on point. Not hard to do with s/d….

Also don’t forget double s/d with energy sigils. even more dodge…

Incurafy man s/d thieves can evade spam all day.

Who even runs Jumper’s double S/D build any more? And I’m aware of the Signet, but nobody uses it unless they need to. You don’t dodge 3 times, use 4 FS/LS combos and then pop Agility just for the kitten of it, and once you’ve done all that you have to wait for it to recharge and wait for initiative to regenerate. Yes, you can evade a lot, but you have no burst (my main point) and evading isn’t doing any damage.

It’s actually called the Leaping Super Immortal Death Troll Legendary Unicorn Blossom build and it comes from here:

http://www.guildwars2guru.com/topic/45902-lowells-ultimate-spvp-thief-guide-wip/

It’s really not that viable since you have such low vitality and the current meta is all conditions. It was super-trolly and earned that title back when the meta was Zerker amulets and glass cannon builds everywhere so the amount of toughness you had combined with the lack of condition removal that everyone else had made it incredibly fun to play, and easy to destroy people with.

Note that that thread hasn’t been updated in a year.

EoNxBoNx.9213:

tichorum.2415:

I honestly think the patch did quite a bit and is helping the balance.

Thief: S/D evades are still a bit unreasonable, but their boon strip has been knocked down to 1 for LS which definitely helps. Perhaps we’ll see a pistol main hand build in the meta now for the lockdown (I believe there already was one for condi-damage but I’ve never seen in it a team queue before).

Acro S/P will probably see more play now since they nerfed the boon strip on LS. It will have the same amount of dodges, the same amount of pressure, and the same amount of disengage as a S/D thief. Mostly because of sword main hand, and 30 in to acro.

EDIT: Or, people will just drop S/D completely and just play D/P, and maybe some venom share with S/P.

I’d just like to point out that S/D doesn’t gain its evades from 30 in Acro, you only need 15 in Acro for Feiline Grace which returns 33% of your endurance when you dodge. Flanking Strike is the evade portion of the FS/LS combo and that’s the part that everyone complains is perma-evasion even though it’s not and nobody even runs S/D + S/D with 30 Acro and Quick Pockets + Energy sigils any more.

Kata.6795:

U can rez people now! Enter support thief, aka ninja nurse!

Lmfao, I loved that name so much that I turned it into a build, thanks for the inspiration! XD

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/NEW-THIEF-BUILD-Time-to-adapt-once-again/

Spanny.9256:

oh sweet jesus halfway through i thought u were serious
that gave me a hearty laugh

How could you even take the name “Ninja Nurse” seriously? :P

Stompy.1387:

I’m going to try this when I get around to it later tomorrow.

If I remember, I’ll come back with the results.

Edit: This is gold. Gold I say!

I can’t wait!

I still don’t understand how people.believe that Thieves have high burst, that build was killed months ago, and you can’t burst with an S/D build (the one that evades 3 times that everyone calls “permaevasion”), lol.

There are reports that it is now removing s condition for every leap through P #5 BP now, could anyone confirm this?

^ P/D*

15chars

Maugetarr.6823:

Incurafy.6329:

Excalibur.9748:

i don’t know if i travelled back in time or anything because WARRIOR is out of control its all everyone plays in PvP because it’s god like and can destroy thieves with ease

With the amount of anti-stealth threads posted this week you’d think that we’d travelled back to September 2012, lol.

Well last month it was anti-evade spam. This month it’s anti-stealth. At least after today we can say “bring a ranger.” But really that’s going to just shift it back to complaining about evade spam or other classes saying they should have the same mechanic.

Hopefully we get some of these skills back to even the playing field:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Beguiling_Haze
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Assault_Enchantments
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shadow_Form
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shroud_of_Silence
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Temple_Strike
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Flashing_Blades
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Critical_Defenses

…but go ahead and tell me that thieves are OP because we can evade too much.

Oh man, FB + CD would = a flood of QQ to rival the mythical great flood, LOL.

I would love it, but sadly the Assassin profession is dead. It’s a shame that they couldn’t bring it back without the chain combos (would be too easy to screw up with the way combat works in GW2) and just not even bother giving Thieves high access to stealth.

Mepheles.2087:

Complaining about an ability that will most likely never be used, and even it does, it’s 4s on a 40s CD, which however does not negate the thief from dodging, shadowstepping away, blinding the Ranger, stunning the ranger, LoSing the ranger, outright killing the ranger, etc…. But you will counter with the same bull crap, “Waah, it’s not the fact that no one will use it, it’s the principle design that allowed, yadda yadda…” THE FACT IS…. This trait is extremely NICHE, and you will probably never see it used if at all and complaining about it is nothing short of ridiculous ranting that has no basis whatsoever.

So because it’s going to be rarely used it’s ok? That’s a ridiculous argument and you know it.

Redscope.6215:

FYI thief-onlies, stealth isn’t the thief’s class mechanic. It’s a game mechanic.

Initiative is the thief’s class mechanic.

L2P <—Just thought this was appropriate for the thief forum. I dunno why but its thrown around everywhere so I figured, why not.

We have:

• Stealth Attacks
• An entire traitline dedicated to it
• Access to it on 4 weapon sets + several utilities.

Yeah, I’d say it’s one of our mechanics.

Excalibur.9748:

i don’t know if i travelled back in time or anything because WARRIOR is out of control its all everyone plays in PvP because it’s god like and can destroy thieves with ease

With the amount of anti-stealth threads posted this week you’d think that we’d travelled back to September 2012, lol.

Redscope.6215:

Chewablesleeptablet.3185:

instead of thinking “OMG i can’t beat this” , relax.

guess what the ultimate counter to stealth is?

block. every profession has it. even better ones are block +counterattack.

also anticipation is a big factor. I’m sorry guys but you can’t just blow all your skills at once on a thief like you can with other professions.

Stupidest argument in the world. What if the thief anticipates your anticipated moves and counters them? Should you anticipate that the thief will anticipate you anticipating? You can’t predict, its called luck. Nobody should be so heavily reliant on luck to counter a class.

Also, you don’t come out of stealth when you’re blocked. Try learning how the game works first before complaining about people complaining.

Stealth has no counter-play. “Sick ’em” will be the first of many anti-stealth skills for players. I’ve already told people that’s what they were going with when they put it on the arrow carts. The arrow cart was a test platform to see if it heavily disabled the thief from playing. It didn’t. Anti-stealth counter-play is coming…and its about friggin time.

The OP hasn’t really done a good job of explaining, Block is only one of the many ways that you can already counter stealth. Despite what you may think, Stealth already has counterplay, if it didn’t then people like myself wouldn’t be able to counter it so easily.

I honestly can’t be bothered listing the existing counters, but if you are open to it, then I will. I can already tell that you’d completely ignore it though.

I have no way of answering your build question, but in regards to Caltrops:

• Reapplies a Crippled condition and 2 Bleeds every second, while active.
• Applies 1 second of Crippled every second if target already is crippled.
• Triggers Signet of Malice each second.
• This skill does not break stealth.

Additionally (not on the Wiki), because it’s an AoE, it applies Cripple and Bleed to every opponent AND triggers Signet of Malice for every opponent within its affect radius.

Source: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Caltrops

Kaizer.7135:

A hard counter is better than no counter at all, and whoop-de-doo, 4 second reveal isn’t going to get you killed unless you suck at Thief.

Stealth already has counters, it doesn’t need a an unavoidable counter that negates an entire traitline and and a large portion of the Thief class without any skill involved.

Shadow’s Embrace was arguably OP pre-condispam, but if they’ve nerfed condispam then it shouldn’t have more than a 3-5 sec ICD, 10 is just ridiculous

I don’t think I’ve seen anyone say that Zerker is ALWAYS better, but it is better unless you already have a ridiculously high amount of power through Might/Bloodlust stacks. You’re almost always better off with Power over Precision, and the chart linked basically says exactly that.

Source?

That is bullkitten if true, luckily it shouldn’t be more than a 3/4 second revealed…

Sanduskel.1850:

don’t call me Shirley.

You have still to provide an explanation with evidence, so clearly you’re lying. You’re not an airplane company, surely you don’t think that you can get away with blatantly lying?

Just ignore Burnfall and Sand, Fade, Burn is an established troll and Sand’s arguments are questionable at the best of times.

Because it’s a game and I play games to have fun… duh?

I chose Stag on my first Thief, it has a great story if betrayal, very fitting for a Thief.

Btw, I’m not going to just tell you to roll a human, but if you’re the kind of person that cares about armour aesthetics then be sure to check out the high level armours you can get before choosing a Sylvari. There really is no way to make a Sylvari look good because the cultural armours can’t be mixed with regular armour like the human cultural armours can. I regret rolling a Sylvari for this reason.

There is literally nothing wrong with D/P pseudo-permastealth. I am yet to hear an argument against it that didn’t come from an inexperienced player or involve “they’re annoying for me to fight so I don’t like them, please nerf them”.

Sanduskel: I’m still waiting for you to explain, with proof, how to attack from stealth without being revealed.

Surely you can explain it and you weren’t… well, lying?

This sounds more like a S/D + D/P stealth build to me, S/D with 30 Acro is always visible, so if they were vanishing as you saiid then it was a stealthy build.

Thieves are ridiculously easy (and fun) to level in PvE, just grab D/D, Shortbow, Caltrops, Signet of Malice, and spam Death Blossom with a bunch of traits that recover initiative/aid condition damage and you’re set.

Thieves are not OP, they are UP in comparison to the other meta professions and if the meta professions aren’t toned down then Thieves, Elementalists, and Mesmers will all need buffs.

Also, every argument you just made has been refuted a billion times since launch. Please, for crying out loud, use the search button.

/thread