Guild Wars 2

I don’t think casual/hardcore. I think pastime/hobby. People can play as a pastime whether they have a little or a lot of time on their hands. Hobbyists will usually devote all the time they can get away with to their hobby.

I would like to know, though, why the emphasis on mobs that summon waves of other mobs (that drop no loot, but are just as hard, or harder, to kill as/than their normal counterparts). The Veteran Hatchlings spawning every few seconds is not a fun mechanic. A Champion Spider can take minutes to put down, especially with the enhanced toughness and/or health that event mobs seem to have.

Mirta.5029:

morrolan.9608:

OTOH mats are cheap and more plentiful so normal player can easily level up jewelry and concentrate more on areas of the game s/he enjoys.

What is this Otoh? I googled it, but nothing come up. I’m interested in games and MMOs so I would probably want to look at it. Could you give me full name or a link to the website, please?

OTOH is not a game, it is shorthand for “on the other hand.”

raiden.9024:

Gem Store is fine until they started to add new skins to the game only in store not as drops, F2P games fine u expect it but to pay for a game then get offered new skins as Shop only that’s not right.

Buying DAO got me the quests and storyline that were in the release. Additional quests added later cost extra. Just so, GW2 launched with many skins available. Those are the skins you paid for. Businesses have the right to decide what a given price buys and what it doesn’t.

Sounds like you’re thinking that a B2P game is like a sub game, where the initial purchase plus sub fee entitles you to all content produced. Oh, and in GW2 you can buy those new skins with gems gained by exchanging for gold. You just want not to have to. You can dislike the business setup, but calling it “not right” is just you having an entitlement issue based on experiences in a different game under a different business model.

Raine.1394:

What I’m saying about WoW is that, with all it’s many different features in place, I get a lot more loot from farming in WoW than I do in GW2, all the while without encountering DR. I would ask how this is possible to do without the economy collapsing again, but I think I’ve made the point clearly.

This is so different from my experience in WoW that I have to comment. I made gold in WoW by harvesting crafting mats and selling them on the AH. Loot from farming mobs was hardly ever more than vendor trash. The blue gear drops sold reasonably well, but I got two BoE ones in 13 months of play, hardly something I would consider farmable. So, what did I miss?

LameFox.6349:

Northlander.4619:

It’s not actually the spiders where the event fails. It’s the champion wraith that ends up wiping out everything once it shows up. The same thing happens in penitent events.

There is a problem with mob scaling that was introduced with the last flame and frost patch. All Orr champ wraiths have a very large pbaoe life drain attack (i.e. covers whole temple) which now kills everything within a minute because it uses it basically nonstop which makes it unavoidable. It consumes blocks immediatelly too since it concists of multiple hits.

I wouldn’t be surprised by it spawning without me ever seeing it, but if it’s that lethal (I do recall a lot of people out the front suddenly going down on a few separate attempts) I’m not sure why me and a few others using ranged attacks, who were behind the main group but in front of the NPC, would be safe and healthy by the end. Plus like I said, at one point I actually saw him being attacked by spiders (which I asked for help with because he was dying faster than they were, only to find the player I was on TS with couldn’t see them).

Jonez has always been the failure point at the Grenth events. With this new iteration, it seems like they’ve added multiple means for him to be downed.

There were 10-15 doing the Melandru events last night. Once the final event popped, and the Champ Spider arrived, a mass of the "Veteran Hatchlings (talk about an oxymoron) appeared. The first few died to AoE, but then of course the AoE’s are on CD. Long before the AoE could get off CD, more Vet Hatchlings appear. Then, more. There was no way we were going to be able to complete this event with 1-2 hatchlings for each of us, plus another 6-12 for the device we are supposed to protect. Then, there’s all the other spawns — the vet abomination that ought to be focused before its Frenzy goes through the roof and, the Vet Acolyte with its summons.

Darkorical.9213:

this site
http://www.gw2dragons.com/guesting.html#/temples

lists all the servers and temples to make guesting on a different server to get merchants quick and easy (I just used it to get stuff from balth the other day)

Hmm, great idea, but…

A large number of the temples have not been updated since two days ago, some two months ago. As of right now, only 1 temple is shown as open within the last two hours.

All events in Orr from the April 30 patch should be reverted to their pre-patch state. Live should not be a test server. If ANet insists on using Live as a test server, they should introduce these changes one or two at a time, say they are testing and ask for reactions.

Thanks to Furikake.4052 for his exposition. I agree that use of interrupts in an open-world DE is not a viable option. Not only does removing Defiant (and being able to take advantage of it to stop a win/lose mechanic) require a level of coordination that can be disrupted by any passing player who jumps into the event, it requires being able to see the champion’s animations amidst the amazing technicolor dreamcoat of particle effects.

It seems as if the only way to complete these events is by bringing enough people beyond the cap for up-scaling to be able to mass AoE the hordes of mobs. This will absolutely kill the spontaneous, “Hey, there’s a couple of us at Melandru, we could use a few more to do the event.”

Tried Melandru tonight. In the final event, the Champion Risen Spider’s new ability to spew Veteran Hatchlings every x seconds is resulting in huge numbers of mobs. Is it ANet’s intent that Veteran mobs would outnumber the players there by a factor of 3 or 4 to 1? That’s what I saw happening.

This change makes it so that completing the event with just the players who respond to a call-out in zone unlikely. Is this intended?

Whats’ this latest trend with Risen summoning several mobs (or vets) every x seconds? If you’re going to swamp us with numbers, then remove the 5 cap on AoE so we can compete with hordes of summons.

I’ve been putting Ascended pieces on 80’s that I hadn’t gotten around to giving Exotic jewelry. Every time I think about replacing an exotic piece with an Ascended one, I look at the minor stat gain and think, “The gain does not justify the expenditure.”

Hmm. They have to sell something in the gem store. Stuff like emotes, town clothes, backpack skins seems OK to me. I’d rather they didn’t sell things like, oh, quick slots for utility skills, or other stuff that is more central to game play.

Businesses have the right to set up their business plans however they wish. Consumers can vote with their wallets. Saying something like, “I want this feature but don’t want to pay for it.” seems like more of an entitlement issue than a legitimate complaint.

Geotherma.2395:

Champion chicken seems legit :P

Zombie chickens should not lay eggs, never mind expel them like guided missiles.

Seraki.2753:

Forgive me if I’m not up to date on some kind of effects but the newbie areas seem to be sporting harder effects with mobs and events [including champs that were once lesser mobs]. I rolled a new toon recently and haven’t spent this much time visiting repair npcs since pre paid beta. I was just wondering if its event based or some kind of compensation for high lvl players constantly farming newbie zones. Ya I know the ur so lame brag festers will jump in but there really is a noticeable change.

Could your issue be class-based? At early levels, some classes are more durable or easier to level than others. The only “new” champion I’ve seen in starter zones was a level 3 Champion Risen Broodmother in Caledon Forest. For all I know it’s been there a long time, and I missed it on previous trips through the zone.

Fine loot … let’s see. Unless I’m under level 14, fine loot equals salvage or vendor trash. Just have the mob drop an extra 50 copper to 1 silver and save me the bag space.

ANet is already using something like this, at least for some mobs. Many Veterans and Champions (including the level 3 Champion Risen Broodmother from the event in Caledon Forest spam the Weakness condition. I no longer bother cleansing it because they just reapply it two seconds later and I’ll want it to remove the lengthy duration Weakness once the mob dies. How’s that for debuff?

Calista Flame.5681:

I totally agree with OP. My first character is a norn warrior….he was lvl 55 when I got into a PUG to do AC. I thought that I would own that place since if was for lvl 35s. After the 12th or 15th time I died and I limped out after killed the final boss and my ego was shoved some place dark and remote I said to myself that I was never doing another dungeon. I thought that it was crazy hard (we couldn’t get the twins apart to save our life!) I know that things have changed in AC since last Oct/Nov and I actually took my lvl 80 ranger through and didn’t die once and I thought is this character that much better or was my warrior that bad (my warrior was probably bad, didn’t know what to do with traits and didn’t have armorsmithing and his gear was crappy). I guess the way I look at it is that if you are going to make a dungeon say lvl 35 and put the entrance in the char beginning area then why make it so hard for anybody that isn’t lvl 80?

When you say the twins, that says AC Story Mode (level 30 recommended), not AC Explorable (35). AC Story was nerfed pretty dramatically between launch and now.

I was participating in the Lyssa event yesterday when the server reset happened. The Priestess was at maybe 2-3% health with 2 minutes 45 seconds before the forced restart. I was below the platform and ran up to try to complete the event before the deadline. There were so many mobs, it took me a few seconds to even find her. In that time, I guess I took my eye off my health bubble, because I went from 25K to downed in what felt like 2 seconds. According to the combat log, the cause was the Ground Pound ability of the Corrupted Illusion doing 4.5k per tick through 2800 armor plus a bunch of other, smaller hits doing 800-900 each.

The big, pink undead gorilla was not even visible until I was not only downed, but dead. I guess the desired “watch the action, not the UI” met reality.

I did some Penitent/Shelter last night. At the same time before the patch (8 to 9 PM PDT), I could always count on finding 10-12 players there. Last night there were never more than 4, often just 3 (myself included). The scaling with that few did not produce any Champions, although 2 Vets at a time was a frequent spawn (along with a dozen or more standard mobs). The events were doable and fun at this scaling, although reviving someone downed was often out-of-the-question because of the increased red circles of hate.

It’s impossible to say whether the observed 66% reduction in attendance is a one-time thing or a trend. However, if up-scaling at these events is anything like the tedious mess the Lyssa event has become with a larger number of players, I wouldn’t be surprised to find the reduction is a trend.

High water mark for a themepark MMO subscriber base: between 11 and 12 million
High water mark for a sandbox subscriber base: between 350 and 450 thousand

Is it any wonder that developers build themeparks?

Raine.1394:

I think the density is fine now in Orr outside the DE’s. The problem, for me, is the power/health of the mobs, continuous major CC, and the number that can one-shot you out of the particle blur. The current Champ risen wraith should simply not be in game with the abilities it has. DE’s in Orr are not fun or challenging. They are so outrageously unbalanced that they are simply silly.

Either one of two things is true; either they made it like this because they don’t want people to play there, or they haven’t a clue about game balance in open world PvE in an MMO. Neither possibility is encouraging in terms of rectifying the issue. I will give them a hint if it is the former. If you want people to play in other areas of the game make them equally rewarding and the players go there. Build it and they will come. It is not a good strategy to encourage players out of an area by making it unplayable. That solution is not a solution and will simply serve to make players angry and bleed their goodwill towards the game.

Orr was fun to play in before April 30. Now, it’s OK to farm nodes in if you avoid events. I have no issue with the normal mobs, but the events are so anti-fun I have to wonder: if they’re catering to the the “It’s too easy” crowd — which I thought was supposed to be dungeon content; or if, as you say, they really have no clue. If ever there was an argument for a test server, this crap is it.

Raine.1394:

I agree that the Anet experiments in game balance have been a huge failure, especially in Orr.

Actually, I found the first phase to be quite enjoyable. This latest phase, though, has made the DE’s I’ve done in Orr massively un-fun. Finally, the idea of a zombie chicken turning its kitten towards me and projecting an egg is disgusting.

On FC, we were in the last few percent of Lyssa Priestess’ health when a new build appeared. That falls under the rubric of “kitten happens.”

Prior to that, maybe 20-25 players were trying to complete the event. At one point there were nearly 20 Veterans up. The Risen Chickens were almost always up. There was always at least one Champion up. The level 81 normal mobs had more health than L80 open world veterans. People were being downed constantly. Many died, some of them over and over and over again.

Despite it all, I suspect we might have succeeded at the event. However, even if we had, the feeling at the end, for me at least, would have been relief that it was over. This was the least fun I have had at an event in GW2. Prior to this patch, I loved the temple events, which were harder than Dragon meta-events, but were fun to do. Now, if this is the new state of the art, I am left with one less thing to do in GW2.

My disappointment with this feature stems from:

In GW1, the explorer titles meant exploring the world map; areas outside the world (Underworld, Fissure of Woe, Domain of Anguish) were not a part of it. The Temple of Balthazar, technically part of the world, was not required. The only PvP areas were two maps in Factions, that could be done on one visit each (although, for a portion of the game’s life, getting Jade Quarry to pop was an exercise in frustration).

Exploring is something to do. At the moment, I’m not bothering to complete the Tyria map because there is no incentive to do so unless I’m willing to also explore in a game mode that I find to be anti-fun. This leaves me with one less thing to do.

Aleth.9630:

Funny how CoF is easier than AC story mode.

How long has it been since you’ve done AC story mode? Your statement may have been true at launch, when AC story did seem very hard in comparison to some explorables. However, it is no longer true. AC Story has been modified to be much more forgiving.

MrTastix.6842:

I would hardly call your points evidence of “discrimination” but as a role-player I understand some peoples frustrations.

The thing you need to understand is – which many RPers don’t seem to get – is that MMOs are games (and products) first and immersive stories second. Lore is great and lore is dandy but lore isn’t the primary selling point of the game. It’s not what puts money on the developers table (though it might on the writers!).

What this essentially means is that anything that would benefit roleplayers has a low priority in terms of importance. New gameplay features, game balancing and bug fixing are much more important because Guild Wars 2 is a -game-, not an interactive story.

On a personal level I think most roleplayers should really get over it. No game has ever given us the tools to create a completely immersible experience and so we should work with the hand we’ve been dealt. I always have and, quite frankly, my enjoyment and role-playing experience isn’t lessened because my chosen race/class’ lore isn’t as developed as I might like.

Blanks were made to be filled. So I filled them.

Post of the month, well said.

Let the guild sort this issue out. If you know this friend only from game … well, I’d no longer consider him a friend. If he’s an irl friend, don’t tell him where you keep your irl valuables. ;/

I have the opposite problem. I have 5 80’s and four other characters, and they level too fast to suit me.

The GW2 skill system is deep, but it’s not complex.

Shiren.9532:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Like any “hard” content, the dungeons in GW2 are more easily done with the right tactics. There are video guides in the sticky, and in this thread there is a post by Ratty that outlines a tactic for the “protect Hodgins event.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/AC-Path-1-can-I-thin-the-gravelings/first#post1926064

Honest question, do you think there is a tactic for the spider queen? I haven’t done AC much since the patch and I personally don’t find her difficult now (I won’t melee or hope for a living pet though) but I’ve noticed a lot more people dieing on it. Aside from staying out of her red circles (dungeon running 101) and bringing a ranged weapon is there a tactic to this fight?

I think a lot of the disparity between people who want more “challenging” content and people who struggle is actually a build wars issue. They made all weapons have the first five preset skills so it was harder to make a bad build, but compare the average build to the cookie cutters and it’s clear that there are still bad builds (but more importantly, some builds which begin to trivialise content which is otherwise challenging).

Tactics for spider? Only in terms of learning the tell for the immobilize, the patterns of the circles and staying away from the spit cone.

I’m not sure that any one factor can account for all or most of the disparity you refer to. Build issues certainly contribute to this disparity. Some people choose their builds because they find them fun. Those choices usually work fine in the open world, but may not in dungeons.

I also think that expectations play a part. People coming from other MMO’s are used to dungeons that are easy, requiring little beyond skill use for everyone but the tank, who has some small positioning responsibility. There’s a kind of game culture shock at having to move and think for yourself.

Then there’s timing. Some dangerous mob attacks are easy to negate (Kholer, once you learn the timing and if you don’t get distracted), some are not. Not everyone has the same twitch reflexes. There’s also system issues. I recently got a bigger monitor, and the extremely minor difference in rendering times (with the same settings) meant that my timing for getting an evasion proc (like, for the dodge daily) was affected. Some of the discrepancy may boil down to borderline systems making people a fraction late, and with some hits, that’s all it takes.

Also, there’s assumptions. People think, well I’ll just play better next time, and don’t think about what happened and what they can change to give themselves a better chance. I’ve seen groups go right back into an encounter they wiped on and do the exact same things while expecting a different result. Sometimes they get lucky, and this reinforces the behavior.

Shiren.9532:

Vik Flagge.8324:

The fact that you can’t see why its a problem that low lvl characters make dungeon runs difficult is the problem. Simply put, regardless of player skill level, a sub-80 character does not have the UTILITY SKILLS and TRAIT SKILLS/POINTS to contribute.

Sorry that you have dealt with some hostile folks, but some may find it frustrating that people can’t or refuse to grasp the simple concepts of the game mechanics I described in paragraph one.

Perhaps a better use of your time (instead of wasting other people’s time with fail runs or complaining about it on the forums) would be to level your character.

Another alternative would be to get 4 friends or guild mates who are level 80 to hold your hand through the dungeon.

I would be happy to assist you on this if you find 3 other level 80’s willing.

God forbid someone attempt a level 35 dungeon at level 35. At level 35 I can easily have my dungeon ready skills, the only thing you are missing is three stat armour and traits. While both of these are helpful (the latter more than the former) neither of them is required.

People fail to grasp the concepts and game mechanics you mentioned because aside from traits, they aren’t true (and even if you consider traits, they aren’t necessary). Low level characters don’t make dungeon runs any more difficult than bad players, and there are plenty of those running around with full exotics and ascended gear. I’ve seen level 35 characters vastly out perform the average player in AC.

If you want a special requirement for your party (anything other than the vanilla experience – skipping, full exotics, prior experience, speed clears, certain classes, certain builds, certain exploits, only level 80 etc) you should state this much when forming the group. Don’t enforce your specific requirements on a group after it has formed (the same way most players don’t join speed clear groups and ask them to stop skipping mobs).

Someone being level 35 and attempting a level 35 dungeon is not the problem.

I honestly don’t know why some people are so unfriendly, I think a part of it is that people aren’t enjoying the content itself (or the massive amounts of repetition required to obtain whatever reward they are playing the content for) so they want the tedium to be over as soon as possible. If people were actively enjoying the content, it wouldn’t bother them as much to take a little longer doing it. I think part of it is the difficulty difference with open world PvE and there being no group dungeon content which forms a middle ground as an alternative.

There is a lot of wisdom in this post. Players … and the dungeon team … should take note.

Elementalists, who pay for having four attunements with only three main had and two off hand choices for weapons.

Knighthonor.4061:

Its been a long wait, but I am ready for some new ways to play.

There, in a microcosm, is the disconnect between player and developer. A “long wait” for some players equals not even enough time to fix since-launch bugs for developers.

Farzo.8410:

Vargs.6234:

lordkrall.7241:

mjharrison.3209:

Why do you guys continue to make the majority of your balance decisions around sPVP performance when hardly anyone plays it? By any measure, sPVP has been a failed experiment, why does the rest of the game have to suffer through class balance decisions that are clearly 100% targeted at sPVP?

I suppose you missed the fact that they are splitting skill changes from now on?

Tell that to the recent ele nerfs.

So Elementalists are sad that they can’t fly over the whole freakin’ place in PvE with Ride the Lightning?

Right.

Actually, yes. I don’t PvP on my ele and enjoyed using the D/D build for more dynamic gameplay. The RTL change did not nerf the build’s in-fight effectiveness, but it did negatively impact the fun factor. So, yes, I am sad (but not mad).

As to why RTL was not split… isn’t it that the current skill splits run sPvP/PvE + WvW? If so, I’m sure that Eles were using RTL to escape in WvW.

I’ve got a better idea, let’s nerf critical damage multipliers and flatten the differences between skill damage coefficients so that all classes and builds are closer in total damage. Then we won’t need meters, and we won’t have people saying that only class x or build y matters.

One of the design elements going in was having people look at the action, not the UI. You can see a bar out of the corner of an eye, but would have to look at numbers.

By hearing about it on the forums, you’d think the pick up group community in this game is heartless, soulless and completely self-absorbed/selfish. While I am sure there are some people who fit that description, I doubt the majority are like that. However, there might well be enough of them to make it so that doing dungeons in a PuG might not be the best idea.

Jski.6180:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Jski.6180:

IndigoSundown.5419:

OK, I’ll give it to you again. I’m not posting about whether Berserker builds are better or worse than others, I’m posting about why some classes do way more damage than other classes given identical stats in Power, Precision, Crit Damage.

I am telling you in pve that not important beyond the speed run events.

Good grief. Content design that is accessible to any class, no matter that class’s relative strengths and weaknesses, does not mean that the classes are balanced.

Your right that dose not mean they are balanced but they are never going to be truly balanced there no game out there that is every truly balanced that a gaming designee for all games. You must find the class that you feel is what you have the most fun then you build it the way you want to play. There a reason this game has no means of looking at other ppl gear nor can you read healing / dps metros.

I said back on page 1 that they will never balance the classes. Personally, I’d settle for a nerf to the synergy between power/precision/critical, but that is not likely to happen either.

Jski.6180:

IndigoSundown.5419:

OK, I’ll give it to you again. I’m not posting about whether Berserker builds are better or worse than others, I’m posting about why some classes do way more damage than other classes given identical stats in Power, Precision, Crit Damage.

I am telling you in pve that not important beyond the speed run events.

Good grief. Content design that is accessible to any class, no matter that class’s relative strengths and weaknesses, does not mean that the classes are balanced.

Jski.6180:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Jski.6180:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

morrolan.9608:

IndigoSundown.5419:

The problem with game balance is multifaceted, but the root of it is in the philosophies behind each of the classes. Warriors are seen as a dps class. Engineers are seen as a versatility class which sacrifices damage for that versatility. Necromancers are seen as an attrition class.

There’s nothing wrong with class design philosophies, but roles are muddied in GW2. All classes can to some extent fulfill any role, and big damage spec characters can provide enough of the other roles in certain circumstances to get by.

Thats correct but the game rewards are based on one thing only, kills.

Unless you count having fun as a game reward. I have more fun on just about any character other than my warrior. I play games to have fun. Fun rewards me.

If you play for in game rewards and nothing else, what you say is true.

Some players don’t care about maximum efficiency. Many do. Most complaints about game balance occur because players compare the results achieved by one class to those achieved by another and find one wanting. Usually, those complaints come from the players who do care. Saying, “Some players care more about viability than parity” does not mean that there are no balance issues.

GW2 class design is based on philosophies of diversification rooted in other MMO’s. Those other MMO’s offer diverse classes and specs, and enforce trinity play. They also provide content balanced around needing that diversity. GW2 primarily offers content that minimizes the impact of diversity.

MMO effectiveness is all about winning fights. This means keeping your side up while taking the other side down. Many of the tools to negate damage in GW2 are available to all classes. High DPS is not. The class design philosophies are responsible for this disparity.

I’m not saying that people who want balance are wrong for wanting balance. I’m staying that when someone says “this is wrong and this is bad” well yeah…for some people. The people who care about it. Many don’t.

It’ll get fixed in time…but fixes take time. I’ve played so many MMOs so much more out of balance than this, it’s not funny. Sure there are problems…but the depth of those problems is greatly exaagerated, because other professions CAN do the content.

That’s just it. I don’t think it will get fixed, unless the devs adapt their design philosophies or make radical changes to the content — neither of which I think is in the cards. The current set-up, and tweaks to it based on the philosophies in place, is about all we can expect. If I’m right, there will always be gross imbalances in damage potential.

Well i do not think ppl should specialized in dmg out put tankly and supporting in effect ppl are trying to still play the game as if there is a 3 class type system and still running into the same problem. Take a thf as a class you can land a free stun drop in a burst dmg during that stun then pull out Sbow and start to help control the mob. Thf start to play all 3 rolls by doing this mixing burst dmg with the ability to control the mobs movement. You can run zerk war but if the mob live longer then 20 sec you will die as such a way and losing a lot of your dmg out put. Vs any real pve event that is more then just a dps rush this build is comply worthless.

I’m not debating how people should build their characters. I’m debating whether there should be a large damage output difference between two characters who have similar damage stats. Your post supports what I’m saying, because it highlights how a high-burst class can offer something other than damage, while other classes damage is kitten supposedly because they offer those options.

Build is a different matter than class. However, the fact that an all-out Berserker build generates numbers that are easily 3-4 times what a more balanced build can generate on the same class/weapon also magnifies the gap between classes. The other reason differences get magnified is critical chance + damage percentage.

But it becomes that way when your talking about dmg out put in PvE. If we have ppl who are going for more of a balance build and there an all in dmg type in the pt that all in dmg type will seemingly be better then the balanced build but that only purely for boss fights. When it comes to more then dmg the all in dmg types become unless and some times a liability.

OK, I’ll give it to you again. I’m not posting about whether Berserker builds are better or worse than others, I’m posting about why some classes do way more damage than other classes given identical stats in Power, Precision, Crit Damage.

Jski.6180:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

morrolan.9608:

IndigoSundown.5419:

The problem with game balance is multifaceted, but the root of it is in the philosophies behind each of the classes. Warriors are seen as a dps class. Engineers are seen as a versatility class which sacrifices damage for that versatility. Necromancers are seen as an attrition class.

There’s nothing wrong with class design philosophies, but roles are muddied in GW2. All classes can to some extent fulfill any role, and big damage spec characters can provide enough of the other roles in certain circumstances to get by.

Thats correct but the game rewards are based on one thing only, kills.

Unless you count having fun as a game reward. I have more fun on just about any character other than my warrior. I play games to have fun. Fun rewards me.

If you play for in game rewards and nothing else, what you say is true.

Some players don’t care about maximum efficiency. Many do. Most complaints about game balance occur because players compare the results achieved by one class to those achieved by another and find one wanting. Usually, those complaints come from the players who do care. Saying, “Some players care more about viability than parity” does not mean that there are no balance issues.

GW2 class design is based on philosophies of diversification rooted in other MMO’s. Those other MMO’s offer diverse classes and specs, and enforce trinity play. They also provide content balanced around needing that diversity. GW2 primarily offers content that minimizes the impact of diversity.

MMO effectiveness is all about winning fights. This means keeping your side up while taking the other side down. Many of the tools to negate damage in GW2 are available to all classes. High DPS is not. The class design philosophies are responsible for this disparity.

I’m not saying that people who want balance are wrong for wanting balance. I’m staying that when someone says “this is wrong and this is bad” well yeah…for some people. The people who care about it. Many don’t.

It’ll get fixed in time…but fixes take time. I’ve played so many MMOs so much more out of balance than this, it’s not funny. Sure there are problems…but the depth of those problems is greatly exaagerated, because other professions CAN do the content.

That’s just it. I don’t think it will get fixed, unless the devs adapt their design philosophies or make radical changes to the content — neither of which I think is in the cards. The current set-up, and tweaks to it based on the philosophies in place, is about all we can expect. If I’m right, there will always be gross imbalances in damage potential.

Well i do not think ppl should specialized in dmg out put tankly and supporting in effect ppl are trying to still play the game as if there is a 3 class type system and still running into the same problem. Take a thf as a class you can land a free stun drop in a burst dmg during that stun then pull out Sbow and start to help control the mob. Thf start to play all 3 rolls by doing this mixing burst dmg with the ability to control the mobs movement. You can run zerk war but if the mob live longer then 20 sec you will die as such a way and losing a lot of your dmg out put. Vs any real pve event that is more then just a dps rush this build is comply worthless.

I’m not debating how people should build their characters. I’m debating whether there should be a large damage output difference between two characters who have similar damage stats. Your post supports what I’m saying, because it highlights how a high-burst class can offer something other than damage, while other classes damage is kitten supposedly because they offer those options.

Build is a different matter than class. However, the fact that an all-out Berserker build generates numbers that are easily 3-4 times what a more balanced build can generate on the same class/weapon also magnifies the gap between classes. The other reason differences get magnified is critical chance + damage percentage.

Vayne.8563:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

morrolan.9608:

IndigoSundown.5419:

The problem with game balance is multifaceted, but the root of it is in the philosophies behind each of the classes. Warriors are seen as a dps class. Engineers are seen as a versatility class which sacrifices damage for that versatility. Necromancers are seen as an attrition class.

There’s nothing wrong with class design philosophies, but roles are muddied in GW2. All classes can to some extent fulfill any role, and big damage spec characters can provide enough of the other roles in certain circumstances to get by.

Thats correct but the game rewards are based on one thing only, kills.

Unless you count having fun as a game reward. I have more fun on just about any character other than my warrior. I play games to have fun. Fun rewards me.

If you play for in game rewards and nothing else, what you say is true.

Some players don’t care about maximum efficiency. Many do. Most complaints about game balance occur because players compare the results achieved by one class to those achieved by another and find one wanting. Usually, those complaints come from the players who do care. Saying, “Some players care more about viability than parity” does not mean that there are no balance issues.

GW2 class design is based on philosophies of diversification rooted in other MMO’s. Those other MMO’s offer diverse classes and specs, and enforce trinity play. They also provide content balanced around needing that diversity. GW2 primarily offers content that minimizes the impact of diversity.

MMO effectiveness is all about winning fights. This means keeping your side up while taking the other side down. Many of the tools to negate damage in GW2 are available to all classes. High DPS is not. The class design philosophies are responsible for this disparity.

I’m not saying that people who want balance are wrong for wanting balance. I’m staying that when someone says “this is wrong and this is bad” well yeah…for some people. The people who care about it. Many don’t.

It’ll get fixed in time…but fixes take time. I’ve played so many MMOs so much more out of balance than this, it’s not funny. Sure there are problems…but the depth of those problems is greatly exaagerated, because other professions CAN do the content.

That’s just it. I don’t think it will get fixed, unless the devs adapt their design philosophies or make radical changes to the content — neither of which I think is in the cards. The current set-up, and tweaks to it based on the philosophies in place, is about all we can expect. If I’m right, there will always be gross imbalances in damage potential.

Vayne.8563:

morrolan.9608:

IndigoSundown.5419:

The problem with game balance is multifaceted, but the root of it is in the philosophies behind each of the classes. Warriors are seen as a dps class. Engineers are seen as a versatility class which sacrifices damage for that versatility. Necromancers are seen as an attrition class.

There’s nothing wrong with class design philosophies, but roles are muddied in GW2. All classes can to some extent fulfill any role, and big damage spec characters can provide enough of the other roles in certain circumstances to get by.

Thats correct but the game rewards are based on one thing only, kills.

Unless you count having fun as a game reward. I have more fun on just about any character other than my warrior. I play games to have fun. Fun rewards me.

If you play for in game rewards and nothing else, what you say is true.

Some players don’t care about maximum efficiency. Many do. Most complaints about game balance occur because players compare the results achieved by one class to those achieved by another and find one wanting. Usually, those complaints come from the players who do care. Saying, “Some players care more about viability than parity” does not mean that there are no balance issues.

GW2 class design is based on philosophies of diversification rooted in other MMO’s. Those other MMO’s offer diverse classes and specs, and enforce trinity play. They also provide content balanced around needing that diversity. GW2 primarily offers content that minimizes the impact of diversity.

MMO effectiveness is all about winning fights. This means keeping your side up while taking the other side down. Many of the tools to negate damage in GW2 are available to all classes. High DPS is not. The class design philosophies are responsible for this disparity.

I’ll say this: Penitent/Shelter and similar events were more fun after the first set of changes. They’re not fun after this most recent change — kind of anti-fun, in fact.

MMO’s are always going to include elements that take time and commitment to achieve/accomplish/obtain/complete. Why? Because many players insist that the game hold their attention through months or years during which they play for many hours a day and complain constantly about nothing to do. No other game genre faces this issue.

The problem with game balance is multifaceted, but the root of it is in the philosophies behind each of the classes. Warriors are seen as a dps class. Engineers are seen as a versatility class which sacrifices damage for that versatility. Necromancers are seen as an attrition class.

There’s nothing wrong with class design philosophies, but roles are muddied in GW2. All classes can to some extent fulfill any role, and big damage spec characters can provide enough of the other roles in certain circumstances to get by.

Essentially, a philosophy of class differentiation was used in a game that was trying to homogenize classes to avoid the trinity.

Softspoken.2410:

Or maybe ranged weapons are just supposed to do significantly less damage on their #1 skill than melee weapons, and mesmer greatsword / rifles / ranger shortbow are just overtuned.

Ranger shortbow may meet the OP’s criteria for attack speed, but I assure you it is not over-tuned with respect to damage per second. Melee weapons taken as a whole do significantly more damage than ranged weapons as a whole. While this should stay that way, there’s plenty of room for some modification to ranged auto-attacks so they are balanced versus each other while leaving melee superior.

No game is for everyone. Even if a game appeals to someone, playing very sporadically and temporary content do not mesh very well. There is, of course, plenty of permanent content available. If very little of the permanent content appeals, see the first sentence.

Kichwas.7152:

This just isn’t a game where you are meant to stay in just either ranged or melee.

If true, “Play how you want” gets another kick in the teeth.

It’s possible the warrior you saw had used transformation crystals to graft DPS stats onto that HotW armor. So, the gap might have been, at least in part, due to berserker v. whatever non-max-DPS set that you are using.

Vayne.8563:

From the point of view of lore and story, there are tons of tidbits in the open world, just waiting for you to find. Gwen’s tomb, and you can hear her flute. Anton’s tomb, which you can interact with and talk to his ghost—to name just two. There’s so many call backs to Guild Wars 1 it’s not funny. Hell you can even revisit the ruins of the Temple of Ages and Old Lion’s Arch as well as The Henge of Denravi.

My favorite is Sunken Droknah.

In the open world, yes.

In dungeons, not so much. I’ve never been fond of the “5 ‘heroes’ beat on one minion for 30 seconds” mechanic found in general dungeon play both here and elsewhere.