Guild Wars 2

Except that ANET has never actually done fixes or balancing on a regular and frequent basis. I see no reason to believe that they will start now.

Actually yes.. I like bunker a kitten of a lot better than zerker. That’s where we are going. With no bunker and the level of damage and cc, look for 2 second fights.

Henceforth, “skilled gameplay” will consist of pushing buttons really really fast.

First your title will probably get you infracted.

Second, ANET has never had frequent updates.

Third, ANET removed bunker without removing the extreme damage bunker was meant to counter. Therefore, we are right back to the all berserker meta that anet claimed it wanted to change.

Skilled gameplay is dead because now all you need to do is get your burst combo off before the other player gets there’s done.

No I’m not happy they “actually do stuff” when the “stuff” makes no sense.

The problem is that ANET has a history of waiting months or years to address things. So a big “balance” patch means long term problems for whatever class is unpopular with the devs at the time.

My point was that ANET has forcibly returned us to nuke / zerker meta unless there’s something “game changing” in the patch we haven’t seen yet.

Skilled gameplay is dead.

Except that Alacrity was the big sell for HoT Mesmers…

ANET isn’t going to reduce damage on the elite specs. That would lessen the gap between HoT and non HoT and thereby reduce the incentive to pay to have a usable PvP class.

On the other hand, survivability just took a gutting.

Where does that leave us? There will no longer be skilled gameplay. The winner will be the player who manages to get there burst combo off first. Rangers, here’s your big comeback.

Dust off that zerker gear Ladies and Gentlemen because that’s where we are going. With the level of damage, aoe and CC, removing bunkers means that what’s left is nuking the enemy before they nuke you.

Based on your post about Mesmers… You might do well to get some practice.

@Drayos

I don’t know where you got that idea. ANET is notorious for making huge kneejerk moves rather than fine tuning.

In addition the game really now only has 7 classes of which 1 or 2 are marginal. You think that’s a good move?

Look, Mesmer just got kicked clean out of the meta by this sort of QQ thread. Please go complain about something else. I’d suggest thief.

You got what you wanted. Mesmer is dead. GO AWAY

I don’t agree. The level of damage and aoe spam hasn’t been changed. Don’t even get me started on the extreme CC. Since survivability is being gutted there won’t be any point whatever in strategy. Welcome back to all zerk all the time.

Yes the “gameplay” such as it is will be extremely unhealthy. The player who manages to get there burst combo off first will win, every time. Look for a lot of 2 second fights.

We’re right back to the days of the berserker meta that anet claimed it wanted to change.

There will no longer be skilled gameplay. Button pressing speed will rule the day

Also look for the near total lack of Mesmer or Ele, because the devs hate them.

-EDIT- Let’s call the upcoming gameplay “Nuke Meta.”

Laughing in RL, thanks. You forgot to add that the stream was about useful and appropriate balance changes from people who honestly cared about the game.

@Phantaram.4816

First, thanks for the video on d/d ele.. It is one of the better instructional videos I’ve seen for GW2, perhaps the best.

Second. ANET doesn’t understand the concept of quid pro quo. If you ask them to nerf one thing in exchange for another, they’ll double nerf whatever you asked. After all, that’s what the community wanted, right? The problem is that they won’t give anything in return, especially in the case of Mesmers.

For that reason, I tend to really be unhappy when anyone, even a Mesmer, suggests that anything be downgraded on Mesmer.

Perhaps that’s why you got the response you did. ( I didn’t write the response, btw. )

All I can say is; “good.” perhaps that will wake ANET up and they’ll take a good hard look at the balance team and the decisions being made.

It is crystal clear that ANET wants Revenant to be the flagship class. After all, Rytlock Brimstone is the poster boy for HoT.

ANET is promoting streamers specifically to teach how to play Rev.. something it has never done before to my knowledge.

So, anything that shows up rev should expect the nerf hammer. I’m looking at you, Thieves and Dragon Hunters.

The cascade effect is the big issue. Unfortunately the dev team doesn’t give a flying kitten what is said in the forums or what the players think.

Clearly, the balance goal was to put Mesmer and to a lesser extent ele out of the game.

A good point I hadn’t thought of that. I bet anet didn’t think of it/care about it either.

So you think that a thief having a sure kill on a Mesmer or Ele is a good thing and you’re anticipating it. Well, at least you’re honest.

There will be consequences though. Those same people who whined that Mesmer was no skill will soon be snapping at the heels of thieves.

At the moment a zerk thief can flat kill me with the steal-> bp -> hs backstab combination if I fail to block it. Add to that doing it from stealth and an unblockable bassy venom that can be shared with teammates… that adds up to god mode insta kill for the thief.

ANET has removed the vast majority of my defense against that. Cheesy thieves inc.

Just you watch and see.

My “attitude” is the recognition that the new bassy venom is way too too strong. That’s doubly true if it’s combined with venomous aura.

Given anet’s history, the future looks like this;

Thieves will cheese mesmers and ele’s completely out of the game for 6 months to a year while anet dithers and does nothing. Eventually the “thieves are cheesy” cry will reach adequate levels.

Finally, anet will take action, relegating thieves to trash tier in some way. Anet, by history will overreact by about a factor of 6.

That’s what I will say to you when the thief cheesing gets you nerfed into the gutter in 6 months or so when anet finally bothers to pay attention to the game again.

I predict that ANET intends to hand out Alacrity like candy to other classes ( engie most likely and warrior.) They have a history of doing this with our “unique” powers such as; Moa, Confusion and chaos armor.

In the case of thieves they gave stealth out to everyone and their sister because they couldn’t think of anything else to do.

In doing so, ANET will further devalue Alacrity, Mesmer and HoT.
I think that the devs just basically want Mesmer out of the game.

-edit- ANET I want my money back.. I bought HoT Deluxe for both my accounts and I’m feeling that I’m not getting what I paid for.

I predict that ANET intends to hand out Alacrity like candy to other classes ( engie most likely and warrior.) They have a history of doing this with our “unique” powers such as; Moa, Confusion and chaos armor.

In the case of thieves they gave stealth out to everyone and their sister becasue the couldn’t think of anything else to do.

In doing so, ANET will further devalue Alacrity, Mesmer and HoT.

I think that the devs just basically want Mesmer out of the game.

I think the entire dev team has lost there way. They clearly aren’t responding to the game as it actually is.

Well, yes that’s true enough. Welcome back to the days after the confusion nerf. Still.. thieves do now have a virtually free kill.

Thief detected. Worry not though, you’ll have your time of eating Mesmers with no risk at all, then you’ll hear the drumbeat ; "thief is so cheesy , wtf? " and I hope you lose stealth altogether along with anything else that you can use for defense.

My first main was thief. I continue to play it in dungeon and pve regularly. You fail to note that with the damage increase, a zerk thief can very likely down me in a single shot. This is not a l2p issue.

I play a thief and I know very well that Mesmer is now an easy kill: steal→ black powder → heartseeker.. dead. and the bassy venom makea ALL OF THOSE ATTACKS UNBLOCKABLE if you listened to what was actually said on the stream.

ANET chose to strip the vast majority of Mesmer defense. Offensive power was also greatly reduced ( 50% Alacrity nerf .)

At the same time they buffed thief auto attack by 30%. This alone would have meant that a thief pulling off a backstab would most likely be able to kill a Mesmer in 1 or 2 moves.

That wasn’t enough though.. ANET added an unblockable bassy venom. This makes the Mesmer shield ( our new weapon ) essentially worthless v. a thief. With the damage increase, a thief can practically kill a Mesmer with a very short combination of button pushes with almost no risk.

I doubt that even shortsighted ANET could have failed to anticipate this situation and it is likely to kick Mesmer right back to trash tier where we languished for years.

So, my question is; “Why do you hate mesmer , ANET?”

Are you taking revenge on a Pro League Mesmer?

Is it office politics at ANET?

Do you simply not want Mesmer in the game?

ANET won’t answer of course, that would require both courage and honesty.

You folks aren’t taking into account the 30% increase in thief damage. Steal ( with immob or daze ) → black powder ( with blind )→ heartseeker .. dead with no chance of block. That’s not counting the thief’s teammates.

GG anet you just kicked Mesmer out of the game. I think that was actually the goal.

Don’t worry though, thieves. You will soon hear the keening whine of “OP” from the very people in favor of this to screw over Mesmer now.

You won’t be able to keep from joyously killing every Mesmer in sight… of course it will take anet two or three years to pay attention… but when they do, you’ll feel the nerf hammer into irrelevancy too.

In my opinion, this is a big middle finger in the face of every Mesmer player. It says “you will be dominated by thieves and anyone else in the arena. You will NOT be successful in pvp.”

Thieves were already capable of killing me very quickly if I wasn’t alert. Now they have unblockable god mode damage, condi and immobilize all in one package. Potentially, so do any of the thief’s teammates nearby. And if that wasn’t enough, they are getting a major increase in spam attack damage … and as if that wasn’t enough, they’re getting more sustain too. In my eyes, it’s pretty obvious that anet is kicking Mesmer out of the game.

The attempt to pre emptively deny that the alacrity nerf makes it useless is a pretty transparent cover for the fact that they know it does make alacrity useless.

Aegis from well of precog? LOL that won’t last even 1/2 second with the incoming auto attack and aoe spam. Plus shield has been made essentially worthless. It won’t stop a thief one shot. It doesn’t provide meaningful defense from monster aoe.. and alacrity is no longer really useful.

This destroys my entire reason for buying HoT. I want my money back.

You think I can dodge 5 attacks? Every one of which will either kill me outright or kill me by poison ticks? ANET kittened all over Mesmer and replaced it with thief. If having a short invulnerability that prevents point capture is so bad..

Then why is a god mode single hit kill that can’t be stopped ok?

The “balance” that anet just announced destroys chronomancer. Aegis is essentially meaningless because it will be destroyed by incoming auto attacks and aoe before it even takes effect. So that Critical defensive slot skill is gone.

To add insult to injury, anet buffs thief damage when they could already kill me more often than not , given a clean shot with a stealth heartseeker.

And then, to ice the cake… they give thief unblockable venom which is sharable with teammates and is an immobilize. If by some chance I survive the burst, I’ll be immobilized and dying anyway of the poison stacks.

ANET basically destroyed the shield’s defensive value along with that of sword and scepter.

It’s pretty crystal clear that anet wants Mesmer to fail.

tell that to the thieves who whine about moa with one of the longest CDs in the game. Sorry , I’m not buying it. ANET deliberately made mesmer thief food.

Think about it; major damage boost when thief could already insta kill me as a mesmer given a clear shot, sharing that major damage with any teammates present. and if I don’t die immediately, I have very poor condi cleanse so I’ll die of the poison stacks.

Y’all whine about passives? this is a 1 button automatic mesmer kill. Thanks a kitten anet.

I’m not “whining.” ANET has created a situation where a team can have 5 unblockable attacks, each of which can kill me outright on it’s own.

This destroys my defense against thieves, who were already able to one shot me. Now they have increased damage and I have almost no counter. It totally devalues the shield which had been a major asset to chronomancer.

In the bargain, it destroyed my primary defensive slot skill. They disingenuously try to pretend it’s only a “nerf.” The reality is that attacks come so fast that aegis is basically meaningless.

As to “take a bit of talent,” I’m in my fourth year of playing Mesmer.. anet has done everything in it’s power, short of banning Mesmer to slap it down to trash tier.

OH I forgot to mention, venomous aura shares the unblockable attack with nearby teammates. So not only does well of precog become worthless ( auto attack will end aegis in considerably less than 1 second ) but shield is worthless as well.

Anet has essentially gutted the shield and removed almost all of Chronomancer defense if there happens to be a thief nearby. Really bad move anet.. clearly little or no forethought unless the goal was to kick Mesmer to the curb.

That is a huge “KITTEN YOU” aimed right at Mesmer. Combined with Well of precog now being basically worthless ( auto attacks will destroy the aegis almost instantly ) It makes Chronomancer essentially defenseless to thieves. Who, btw, are getting a major damage upgrade.

So I ask again, ANET.. why do you hate Mesmers?

I’m in my fourth year in this game. For the vast majority of that time, Mesmer has been underpowered and an easy victim to most classes. It’s the class I want to play and I am sick of being second rate.

The word is “insight.” To repeat myself, I was trying to explore the reasons people reflexively whine for Mesmer nerfs when being beaten by another class doesn’t provoke the same response.

@Grouch;

Sitting here contemplating yet another hard slap down on Mesmer… and don’t even get me started on the blatantly exploitable tournament system.

I can’t say I believe any of this about amulets will actually be what happens. I think that the devs buff there favorite classes and nerf classes that beat them. My confidence in the game balance wanes a bit more.

I think that you, personally, dislike Mesmers. Am I wrong?

ANET, there aren’t words for my disgust even though I expected it. Do you actually play gw2?

Which dev got beat by a Mesmer and is kittened?

Yep.. they made Mesmer as useless as they could without completely removing it. Why do you hate Mesmer, anet?

@Aomine. I have in fact been playing multiple classes trying to get my wins to get the achievements for PvP.

I can crush a Mesmer on another class I understand. For example, I can confidently engage on Thief.

@ Godz The build was Condi-clone death. This was during the time that thieves could pretty much eat Mesmers at will.

I feel that ANET’s balance team does make it’s decisions based on personal bias and internal dueling.

According to the blog post you’ll get your wish, at least partly. Thief AA is specifically mentioned for a buff.

Again, I was trying to explore the reasons that appear make people reflexively ask for Mesmer ( and thief ) nerfs.

So many times, I have been called OP if I managed to win on Mesmer. In my experience, people have no problem in general losing against a warrior or a guardian say.. They attribute it to being out played. If they lose to a Mesmer, it’s because the class is clearly OP.

I watched Grouch himself do this on twitch. He lost to a Mesmer on thief. It wasn’t because he got outplayed.. it must have been that the Mesmer was OP. BTW the build that beat him was completely removed from the game in the very next patch.

As to passive condi cleanse; “Diamond Skin Ele.” Need I say more?

With respect to thief. I enjoy the class. I won’t play it in pvp though. I think that the revealed mechanic should be toned way back and that channeled attacks like Ranger rapid fire should be defeated by stealth.

I guess it could be said that in general, the core classes need some power creep. Under the present conditions, core classes aren’t much use in pvp.

As to warrior.. well I admit I’ve been hammered flat so many times by stun + 100 blades or hambow cc + burn + slam that I have a strong bias against anything that buffs them.

We seem to agree on [Time Catches Up]. How about a buff to Mesmer AA?

OK, true enough, Ross. My point remains. Mesmers are expected to be easy kills. When they aren’t players get upset.

In addition, Mesmer Chronobunker can stop zerk nuke bursts. That more than anything else I think kittenes people off. It’s an ego stroke to be able to kill another player instantly.

It also covers lack of skills Against a Chronobunker you can’t simply hammer 3 buttons and expect to win. You have to think. For that reason alone Mesmer is obviously OP.

Maybe, but remember that condi cleanse isn’t something that Mesmer is good at in the first place. So I don’t think your concern is as big an issue as you think.

Even for me? Thanks Ross. No, I was trying to explore why players single out Mesmer for nerfs. Why it is that players blame the class for being OP if they happen to lose to one.

I’ve seen this innumerable times. Beaten by a warrior or ele? well they must be more skilled. Beaten by a mesmer or thief? It’s because they are grossly OP cheaters.

I watched Grouch himself complain on twitch about losing to a Mesmer on thief. This was during the time that a Mesmer was almost an assured easy victim for a thief.