Guild Wars 2

The finals were lame and boring. 10 players playing a game that has been customized to there personal preferences. Not only that, the pretentiousness of the trappings was just painful to watch.

GW2 would be a better game without the pro league, imo.

In line? you’re kidding right? Aegis, you seriously contend that’s worth anything?

Shield got multiple nerfs.

Alacrity has been crushed so far as to be worthless in pvp, though I run it in dungeons sometimes. I run teaching paths and the noobs need that and the double tw and /or [FeedBack] sometimes.

Rev has a block comparable to old shield, as does engi. Hell… some of the guardian blocks are close. Warrior probably has similar though I don’t play it often enough to know for sure. Daredevil has perma evade and a killer auto attack. In the case of engi they also have an elixir that does basically the same thing. Oh and they have better tanking than a pre nerf chronomancer.

How was shield or well bad again?

The other thing is this. ANET destroyed most of what Mesmer had. Witness the pro players.

Chaith mocked me pre patch saying I was paranoid and that Mesmer would be strong post patch. He was dead wrong. I Abjure his statements.

ANET has a long history of nerfing Mesmer very hard and leaving it broken for months or in some cases literally years.

Worry not. Anet appears to be letting the pro league players make the balance decisions. Rev and necro are safe.

Warrior, guardian, Mesmer and thief can look for a long period of being second class.

ANET is apparently making balance decision based on pro league player opinions. The result is a game customized for a small group of players.

It also means Warrior, Guardian, Mesmer and to a lesser extent thieves are just out of luck. Revenants on the other hand can look for a halcyon time of being blissfully OP.

No, more ESL player feedback is definitely not desirable.

No “everyone” doesn’t hate Mesmers. I’ve mained one for years. People who are unwilling or unable to learn to play against Mesmers hate the class.

Admittedly.. it takes some skill and attention to beat a proficient Mesmer.

I also main Mesmer. You must not have been playing long. D/d ele, Hambow warrior, machine gun ranger.. to name just some of the more prominent ones.

You know what feedback I got every time? Even when 5 man Hambow teams were crushing everything in sight? “Learn to Play.”

I now return that to the pro league. Learn to play, boys.

ANET already lets a bunch of teenagers dictate balance. ( the pro league ) The very last thing we need is even more disconnection and elitism.

Revenant needs no buffs of any kind. It’s already a superior thief / assassin. Just what I need, another class that eats Mesmer for breakfast.

Revs have nothing to complain about.

Why am I not surprised. I’d bet money that is deliberate.

That’s truly a pity.

ANET says a lot of things. Best to believe what you see in game.

I agree in general. Especially that engi is way too tanky.

I’d like a lot less feedback from the pros. The have strong biases and personal agendas. ANET ought to be listening to the main player base instead.

My concern about season 2 is that anet has chopped Mesmer back so far we’re almost out of the game.

Oh No! Amulets that might help a Mesmer survive! Hotfix remove! Do I sound a little bitter?

Engineer needs a serious reduction in tankiness. The forums screamed and qq’d about a bunker Mesmer.. yet Scrapper is doing essentially the same thing + stealth and no one has a problem with this?

Thieves have extreme close range survivability compared to Mesmer. Evade and blind spam. More hp? well Thieves have the next higher armor class. Did I mention; higher mobility, more CC and more sustained damage?

Mesmer has been traditionally thief food for years, so your comparison makes no sense.

The “soap bubble” quality of clones has been a bane of Mesmer since I began playing. I’m in my fourth year in the game.

The extreme weakness of clones doesn’t encourage shatter, it discourages it. Clones won’t survive aoe or aa spam. This means that the only reliable way to hit a shatter is to get right next to the target.

( One technique that hits most of the time is to shatter on a downed foe to interrupt the rez and damage the rescuer. It’s a real commentary on shatter that it doesn’t always hit, even then. )

This exposes the Mesmer to CC and near instant death against many classes.

If ANET sincerely wanted shatter played, they’d make the trait [Time Catches Up] baseline, increase clone hp and make clones follow the target better. Sad to say, I’m actually jealous of ranger pet ai at times.

Taking advice from Pro League players is even worse than listening to the forums. The Pro Leaguers have a highly skewed perspective compared to regular players.

They make opinions based on obscure move combinations and teaming combinations that would never happen in a real everyday PvP game.

On top of that, several Pro League streamers have expressed strong personal biases and agendas. At least one went far out of his way to defend smurfing last season.

ANET definitely should not give much weight to pro league opinion.

Complain if you want to about condi mesmer. Because of all the qq about Chronomancer and the nuke nerfs, there really aren’t any other good options on Mesmer.

Y’all made your bed on that one and I smile every time I down a rev with confusion and bleed. Rather.. I watch them down themselves.

I had a match tonight on Skyhammer. I think it was PUG vs full premade. We stomped the premade into the ground 500-72. At one point I was successfully 1 v 3 while we had all three captures. I killed 2 of the 3 and one escaped.

Curious, I asked the opposing Mesmer about it afterwards. That person told me that they had bought the game 2 hours before and the entire team had similar experience. According to that player, our match at Skyhammer was there second match ever.

I pointed them to Hotjoin and explained that running as a team would tend to get them harder matches. Along the way I mentioned metabattle and Osicat on YouTube. Sadly VashBash is apparently no longer on YouTube.

This match should never have happened. It points out some possible issues with matchmaking.

It is possible that the system took no notice of mmr or took it too little into account.
I’m not the best player, but I doubt my mmr is that of a player in there second match ever.

Maybe the initial mmr setting is too high? I had too high a rating when I first played competitive Chess. It caused quite a few matchmaking issues.

Whatever the case, the team seems to have been rated far too high.

I suspect that the mmr comparison/prediction is broken and/or set up in such a way that it places way too much faith in groups.

I had to apologize in mapchat. I don’t like to win that way and I definitely don’t like to lose that way. (It happens all too frequently, alas. Then again, I play the hated Mesmer class. )

This kind of PvP match is a great way to drive off customers. The Spirits know, that’s not what anet needs to be doing right now.

I love the golden wings glider. It looks cool and the unfold / deploy animation is really nice.

The sound with that low frequency feedback or stutter effect reminds me strongly of Revenant though.

@Fay, hmm thanks I’ll look.

@Daggerhands, the fact that there are skills with tells that can be evaded in no way invalidates my argument. That’s what you seem to be trying to imply.

[Confusing Images] is a channeled skill and by anet’s own rules it should not be evaded by stealth. That’s a very long standing rule of engagement.

Further, it’s only selectively enforced. Ranger [Rapid Fire] channels as it should. Therefore this bug or ninja nerf is a major advantage to Ranger. That’s just plain wrong and no amount of justifying or giving anecdotes will change that.

As a matter of fact, Mesmer wrote very little. A lot of what he did write isn’t very comprehensible without context and background knowledge. I do however have in my collection a couple of volumes by students of his.

He worked through suggestion and primitive hypnosis. The methods closely resemble those of Huna, a mystical tradition from the Hawaiian Islands and some other shamanistic practices.

The vision I create for myself of using my enemy’s fears and complexes dovetails nicely with this.

-edit- ANET, maybe something based on Confusion and Fear would work out for mesmer?

The GW1 Mesmer was based on manipulation and punishment. In GW2 that’s mostly lost. So, I make up my own explanations and reasoning.

I don’t think anet takes Mesmer seriously. That’s just my opinion.

In my mind a Mesmer pulls the fears and complexes from her enemy’s sub conscious. These manifest as clones and Phantasms. I choose to see it more or less as making the enemy fight themselves.

The GW1 Mesmer isn’t welcome in GW2. Witness the absolute removal of the clone death build.

Confusion does provide a little bit of a punishment mechanic. I go out of my way to stack confusion. There’s also some manipulation and boon stripping available through [Chaos Storm] and [Null Field].

It’s deeply sad that I have to make up my own narrative and reasoning to play a Mesmer as it’s intended or at least pretend to play as intended. That I suppose is part of Mesmerizing…..

It’s been my habit to point new Mesmers to VashBash on Youtube. His videos answered questions for me that I couldn’t get other players to help with. They put me quite a bit ahead on the learning curve when I finally discovered them.

Last night I referred a new Mesmer to them and found out they have been completely removed from YouTube and anywhere else I can find.

Vash, you were a great help to me and many others. I do honor you for your help to the community ‘Curtseys low’.

Does anyone know a current source for Vash’s videos? I have one or two on my hard drive but they seem gone from the net.

Channeled skills, generally, are not supposed to be untargeted by stealth. That’s why I’m calling attention to it. Ranger [Rapid Fire] is also channeled and is not untargeted by steath.

No actually I find War a bit underpowered at the moment.

I’ve heard that. So, it would seem this is a bug.

fix page glitch 15 characters

I find that statement unbelievable. Please explain. In particular please explain how a Mesmer countered a warrior prior to the heal signet nerf and how a Mesmer countered a pre nerf Hambow?

You don’t understand. Channeled skills should not be untargeted by invisibility. This is according to the wiki. Confusing Images is a channeled attack.

Ranger Rapid fire is a channeled skill. It can’t be evaded by invisibility or short range teleport. So, if ranger hide evades a channeled attack like Confusing Images; Then Ranger has a significant defensive advantage.

@eureeka.5368 46 as a matter of fact and post-op.

@rouge.8235 LOL well, I can respect another vet. Marines make good cannon fodder.

Wow, I missed all the personal attacks in the first read through.

I dispute that Chronomancer was ever really OP. Other classes simply weren’t willing/able to learn to play against it.

If I entertain for a moment that Chrono was indeed OP. That is no reason to cut it down so far that it’s non competitive. Beyond that, Mesmer has been underpowered for most of the 3+ years I have been playing.

So, if I accept the notion that Mesmer deserved a heavy nerf for being briefly high powered; Then by the same token, Mesmer deserves to be OP since it has been more or less at the bottom of the heap for years.

As to the comparison to Warrior; Well do I remember the years that I as Mesmer could not even successfully engage a Warrior. Multiple shatters wouldn’t even dent the signet heal. Also they could stun -> 100 blades and kill me nearly instantly. A bit later was the hambow meta, when 5 man Hambow warrior teams rolled unchecked over PvP.

Again, if I accept that Mesmer needs a period of being underpowered for having been high powered a short time.. then by the same token, Warrior needs to be trash tier for a year or so. I could say the same of Dhuumfire Necro and d/d Ele.

The argument that Mesmer deserves a radical nerf for a brief period of being a top shelf class is invalid and self serving on the part of the Warrior poster.

Mesmer was chopped back so hard that it is in a worse position than it was before elite specs and HoT. That’s sad consiering I bought HoT (twice) specifically to have a finally competitive Mesmer.

ANET needs to compensate Mesmer in a big way for the nuke nerf.

#sarcasm, at least you were creative. I posted on the bug forum. You should too.

Confusing Images is losing target when a ranger uses the longbow hide. It is a channeled skill and should not lose tracking. I may also be losing target with [taunt].

This is particularly infuriating in light of the fact that ranger [rapid fire] is not distracted by stealth.

I half believe this is a deliberate ninja nerf to Mesmer but I’ll hope that’s not the case.

[Confusing Images] is being interrupted by the Ranger hide. It is also possibly being redirected by taunt. It is a channeled skill and should not lose target.

I find this infuriating in light of the fact that rapid fire is not untargeted by stealth. That’s not to mention the recent nuke nerfs. Stop trying to kill Mesmer, devs.

I’ve just come from 4 matches in a row, full pug vs the same guild team team. One of the matches was 500+ to 71.

Anet’s new matchmaking algorythm logic seems to be; “if someone wins, put them in a match they can’t possibly win. Repeat until they have less than 50% wins.” I need to spend a lot more of my time and money in other games if this is going to be the way things are.

Having read the various replies I’d like to modify my original statement. HoT was sold by making all of the Elites mildly OP. In a deeply cynical move, they where then nerfed way back.

I concede that elite specs shouldn’t be OP. Having said that; The specializations need to be strong and competitive in and of themselves.

Mesmer core is and has been underpowered for years. Chronomancer has been cut back too far to be competitive with the other elites. Now it’s a helpful ( but not mandatory ) addition to shatter Mesmers.

Because Mesmer has been under the power curve for so long, to suddenly be a top class was a heady experience. To then be cut to less than what we had before was wrenching.

Chronomancer, pre nuke-nerf was counterable. Too many players preferred to simply complain it out of existance. Post nuke-nerf, Chronomancer is largely irrelevant. ANET made it’s balancing job easier at the cost of once again destroying Mesmer.

That’s simply wrong and unethical. I suspect that the explanation has more to do with office politics at anet than it does with play testing.

Yes I agree, the elites were released more powerful than the core class, It was a pure marketing move that I would call “cynical” if I were to look at in the most favorable light.

I further agree that in my fourth year playing GW2, the vast majority of the time Mesmer has been noticeably underpowered.

When I pre purchased HoT, it was in the hope of finally being able to keep up. Instead, we got repeated broad nerfs to shield, alacrity and wells. This had the effect of making the new class that held out so much hope little more than a footnote.

What I actually said in another post is that the other classes (and elites in particular) could have learned to counter chronobunker. Instead, the QQ solved the problem by once again dashing Mesmer to bottom tier. I think that says a lot about both anet and the players.

Now I run PU condi, in the forlorn hope of trolling a bit. I fully expect that in a year or so, anet will make another big “innovation” to boost Mesmer and destroy it soon after. It’s got me pretty down at the moment.

First, I would say that power shatter is not a great build for many players. So a condi build doesn’t have to work terribly hard to be more functional.

Pistol is often for bleed.

I pre purchased HoT. In addition I’ve pretty much mained Mesmer for years.

No, the Chronomancer line really is not build defining. the Alacrity and quickness changes have made it a sideline factor at best.

If as you say the elites weren’t intended to be more powerful; Then why were they released in a form that was considerably more powerful than the core classes?

Here we have a clear conflict between statements and actions. One possible explanation is that it was to force players to buy the expac to compete in season 1.

I won’t forget. Condi Mesmer is just about the only thing we have left. It’s generally considered trash tier.

Well said. 15 characters

Skill have an in range/out of range indicator.

What hard facts do you refer to? Since you refer to “hard facts,” what facts lead you to argue that S&R specifically should be evaluated differently from other skills?

If you don’t know why you would want to revive “some guy” on your team… well I suggest you practice PvP a lot more.

I would also point out that quickness rezzing ( which allowed a higher success rate on rezzing teammates just kitten &R does ) was a major nerf target in the last patch.

That alone would seem to be evidence for the need to nerf S&R.

@burtnik

If that’s the case, then why were the elites released at a significantly higher power level than the core? It’s not logical to make a class clearly more powerful if the intent is to have it a similar power level to others.

Was it to force players to buy the expac to stay in the game?

-edit- I don’t do hotjoin. It’s too chaotikittenil the most recent changes, I always queue’d ranked. Now I queue ranked whenever it’s available.

So, in essense you agree that Chronomancer is in fact weaker at this time than the core Mesmer class. We have that much common ground at any rate.

Sure, I’ll agree that build diversity is something we want.

Nevertheless the Elite specs were released significantly stronger than the core classes. This made it pretty much mandatory to buy the expac to compete in PvP.

To then turn around and nerf the elite classes hard is cynical at best. If the intent was to create build diversity, then the elites would have been released as different modes but of similar power. They were not. Ergo, diversity was not the goal.

I bought the expac ( twice, one for each of my accounts ) specifically to finally have a competitive Mesmer. That was the promise.

Mesmer was an iconic class of GW1 and still is in GW2. In my fourth year of GW2, my beloved Mesmer has been considered trash tier the majority of the time.

I remember when Warrior heal would completely remove multiple shatters worth of damage and they’d kill me with stun followed by 100 blades. Guaranteed instant death.

I remember when thieves loved to see Mesmers on the other team because is was an easy kill farm with almost no risk.

All this kittening about Chronobunker is actually kind of funny. Back in the day, when Hambow ruled all things, they’d tell me “L2P.” This was in spite of the fact that the healing signet made it impossible for me to do significant damage to them.

So to all those kittening about chronobunker I can only say ; “l2p” It’s a shame that players were not willing to learn to counter a chronobunker. Too many preferred to simply complain about it.

No the elite specs were better initially. This made the expac an necessity for established players. Once those sales were done, the elite specs were knocked down.

That’s a pretty cynical move in my opinion.

Laugh all you like. Played well it works. Sad that that’s all you can think of to contribute to the discussion.

Uhmmm, according to your signature, you play Mesmer. Are you honestly going to claim that Chronomancer is “stonger than core?” I’m kicking the kitten out of Chronomancers on PU condi Mesmer.

I can’t really speak to most of the other classes. I do better as a venom share Thief than I do as a Daredevil.

Your second point is a matter of opinion. So, it can hardly be said to discredit me unless you claim to be the ultimate authority.

Entertaining the idea for a moment; If we suppose that elites are meant to bring build diversity, then I have two questions;

What would be the point of effectively buying the game again to get the expansion? There would be very little motivation for established players with well understood classes to buy the game over again. That would mean learning a new class for no real benefit.

Why were the new classes released in such a way that they were clearly more powerful than the core classes? If the intent was to create diversity, then releasing significantly more powerful classes makes no sense.

ANET’s actions argue against the notion that the intent was to create diversity.