Guild Wars 2

One of the reasons for the blowouts seems to be that “pro” players are alting and going back through the divisions. This is in an effort to get more matches.

So, they stomp there way through the divisions, again. What they are forgetting is that it’s kittening off a lot of players. I wonder if there will be enough left to support a season 3?

In addition to the small player pool, the “pro” players are playing on alts to get matches. This means they stomp there way through the divisions again. So, they compound the problems that got them slow matches to begin with.

This game wasn’t built to be esports, it wasn’t advertised or promoted as esports and the audience doesn’t want esports. I hope anet realizes this in time.

The MM system was deliberately set up to cause blowouts. As to solo queue players… I’d wager that the vast majority of players would prefer casual and solo play.

I feel that a small vocal minority has hijacked the game and tried to turn it to ultra cutthroat competition. That’s doomed to failure though, there aren’t enough players who want that to sustain it.

Blowouts are still happening because the system is deliberately created to cause blowouts. It heavily favors one side.

A contributing factor is the fact that the player pool is diminishing as a result of the ongoing blowouts. That has likely caused ANET to need to widen the pip range for matches.

People have complained about Moa for the life of the game and it has been nerfed. It’s an incredibly long cast, a long cool down and is totally evadable and blockable.

Truly if you die to Moa, it’s your fault.

I deserve it more than the kittens who pre-made and rode a win streak to the top with very little effort.

I have put in more than full time work hours playing this season and last. In that time, I’ve never made ruby. The matches haven’t even been close to fair. 500+ to double digit scores have been the norm all season. Basically I’ve been dying for the pleasure of others and it sucks.

The backpack is the prestige item, yes I want it. Yes, I’ve been locked out of it.

My point is illustrated by the fact that the pip range has apparently been expanded. The system failed. Not only are there too few players, they are also concentrated in black holes. Mine happens to be the first pip of emerald.

It’s worse than sad. It means that matches will be even more unbalanced than they were. It also means that I have exactly 0 chance of winning the wings.. so the rest of the year is a waste of time for me. Why should I play? Why should anyone play, unless thye have pre -made ridden to diamond?

And do you know what sucks more? I’ve been overmatched all season, 500-60 games have not been uncommon. I’ve never even had a real chance.

So, in essense, I’m wasting my time. Well that really sucks.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391
what professions are you playing ?
whats holding you back ?
most casual players should be able to reach ruby even if they play 3 ranked games per day.

That isn’t a true statement. I’m putting nearly full time work hours and I’m stuck in the first tier of Sapphire, where I have been for several days.

The match quality is getting worse, if anything. There’s no way in Grenth’s realm I’m going to get the pack this year… This is basically becoming a waste of time for me.

I strongly suspect that many feel the same way.

It’s painfully obvious already that I’m not going to earn the backpack this year.

So, do the various pieces ( eg tapestry of sacrifice ) carry over to next year? If they don’t I may as well stop playing now and save the hassle.

The fact that I’m seeing regular stacks of DH mixed with scrapper or necro makes your statements incorrect.

If itweren’t OP, then 5 player dh stacks wouldn’t be a thing. Don’t even get me started on unkillable scrappers.. and people complained about bunker Mesmer.

My current match is at over 300-20 as I type this. Here’s a bit of team chat from the previous match with some of the same teammates.

It’s gotten to the point where teams are trading DC’s because of the roflstomps.

One thing is abundantly clear, DH and Necro stacks are almost unbeatable.

The system does not seem to be matching a full pre-made with a full pug. To that extent, the system is honest.

The matchmaking is another matter.

Yes well, I only made Emerald in season 1, should I just stop playing for the rest of the year? Apparently I have no chance of getting the wings this year?

See my point?

+1. Solo Queue would be a much better test of player skill and it would have less profession stacking.

I agree that PvP wings should be earned through PvP. I do not agree that they should be reserved for a small fraction of PvP’ers. I’m putting in full time work hours in pvp and not moving up.

I deserve the awards as much or more than the players who sailed into diamond with a pre made and a win streak.

First, Moa is the signature trick of Mesmer. Many have complained about Moa for years, which is why it was given to engi as well. The idea of nerfing it has been proposed and rejected consistently.

This is a learn to play issue.

Mesmer has already experienced a massive series of nerfs. The shield (multiple times ), wells, alacrity,blurred frenzy ( multiple times ), confusion and yes, even moa. That’s not a complete list.

If anything, Mesmer is currently underpowered, ( as it has been for a majority of the game’s life.)

Yes there is one condi build that is competitive. That build has very little defense against conditions. Necro in particular should have no difficulty against it.

The reality is that there is a lack of skill and understanding on the part of some of the other players.

Please edit to remove the name of the offender, so you don’t get busted. Thanks for the heads-up. Can’t say I’m surprised though. The only thing that really surprises me about this is that it’s not more frequent/blatant.

-edit- pips unchanged on the losing side.

As to “imagined disabilities” I have real disabilities (directly related to video gaming ) that I chose not to list.

The concept of a “meritocracy” is all well and good in theory. The real world presents some more problems though.

First, because the system started everyone in the same place, those unlucky enough to be matched against teams or highly skilled players were unfairly down rated. That disadvantaged them for the remainder of the season. This is not a meritocracy but a caste system.

The system as it stands favors a vocal minority and only that group. Unlike the real world, people have no obligation to be in PvP. Hence, if the game is made unpleasant for them by excessive competitiveness, they will leave.

The concept of deliberately matching teams in such a way as to make one win is inherently unfair. It cannot logically be considered fair.

Teams artificially inflate the apparent skill of individual players.

If the system were truly a test of personal skill, it would require everyone to solo queue. The system is intended to force team play. Well, the reality is that a large number of players don’t want to be on teams.

Because of the unfair matches, players will leave the system. This will magnify the matchmaking problems by reducing the pool of available players. This is a vicious cycle.

Last, let’s be honest for a minute; The legendary backpack and related rewards are a carrot to attract players to PvP. Many of those players are relatively inexperienced. Curb stomping them and denying them the reward can really only have one effect. That effect is not constructive for PvP.

Enjoy myself? I’d enjoy the game a lot more if I wasn’t seeing 70-500+ losses.

That’s just my point. What is a “better” player? Is someone who is willing to work long and hard “worse” that someone who blasts through the ranks with an organized team.

Is someone who puts in almost full time job hours ( me ) “worse” than a player who for whatever reason finds the game easy and is already “legendary?”

The priorities are wrong in my view. The backpack ought to be a reward track. It should not be a gift to a priveleged minority.

No, despite multiple 12+ hour sessions and a lot of concentrated effort to “improve myself” over the past almost 4 years…. I’m stuck in the first pip of Sapphire, being repeatedly curb stomped.

Congratulations, I’m well North of 40. I said nothing of the kind. What I said, in essense, was that I ought to be able to earn the rewards through work.

This should be true if I’m a pro league player or a new player. If the only way to get the reward is to win a given number of matches or have so many mmr points… Then most players have no chance at the outset.

When players recognize that they are doomed from the start, guess what? They don’t start.

The reality is that many players will never make pro league status, regardless of trying to “improve themselves.” So, the implied argument that others are simply lazy is false.

There seems to be a prevalent view that only a specific group of players “deserves” to be Diamond / Legendary and that others should be kept out. The argument appears to be that only skill should be rewarded. This is an entitlement based idea.

A couple of criticisms of that paradigm;

Skill may be partly “earned” through gameplay. However, it also has to do with age ( hand to eye coordination, reaction time , ) internet connection quality, computer quality, geographic location ( lag ) and a host of other factors.

Other non individual factors that come into the equation include playing on a organized teams and playing whatever build is currently in favor.

So, “skill” is to some extent random ( or based on the amount of money a player spends on gaming ) and not all of it is “earned.” That makes it a weak argument for entitlement.

The other side of it is this;

I am no esl player and do not wish to be. I’d be willing to bet that I’ve put in as much time and effort as some of them this season.

Work and effort deserve to be rewarded too. If they are not rewarded, it is likely that the “skilled” players will be the only ones left.

It’s interesting you say “really good players that belong there.”

Here’s the issue I have with that; If we base divisions purely on skill level, then some players will get placed highly with almost no effort. Others, like myself will never make it. This is an entitlement based system. I can’t see how that won’t alienate most players.

Also, what about the value of work and effort? No, I’m not an ESL player and have no desire to be… I’d be willing to bet I’ve put in as much time and work as some of them this season though. I ought to be rewarded for that.

A couple of things.

First, yes a small vocal minority is having fun. That minority is into team playing and dedicating large blocks of time to GW2. However, this does not represent the vast majority of GW2 players.

Second, all this talk of the system balancing out over time is NOT panning out. At this rate, matches may level out some time next year.

Of course, by that time only the tiny minority will still be playing.

It’s easy to call others “carebear” when you’re doing well. At this point I have no chance of getting the legendary pack. I consider 10 game losing streaks “short.” So, the rest of the year’s seasons are meaningless to me.

Sure you can be competitive all you like, but it’s turning a lot of people off to pvp and perhaps to GW2 generally. Lower population means worse matches and a vicious cycle.

I don’t actually think most of the gw2 players want to be ultra competitive. I think it’s a small vocal minority,

Already we’re seeing ESL teams running matches on alts because they can’t get matches. That’s a direct result of the matchmaking and frustrated players.

What is the purpose of the current setup? I don’t find the matches at all competitive most are stomps. PvP population appears to be diminishing. Top level players are complaining about long queue’s or alting and exploiting the lower divisions,

Just what purpose does the current setup serve?

That’s the other side of the current “competitive” matchmaking. The extreme stomps are keeping a lot of people from advancing. Those folks who thought the system would provide great matches at the top are proven wrong.

This is an official ANET post. It illustrates the attitude they are taking.

@Celeras.4980

I find myself wondering if you are trolling or not. The system was deliberately set up to heavily favor a minority of players. How does that place people “exactly where you currently belong?”

Please explain.

And… my very next match was against 4 dh and a reaper. We lost by over 300 points.

That’s not a good plan.. since more than half of the PvP’ers would need to quit each night after the first couple of matches.

The system is NOT competitive. It’s set up to favor some players in the extreme.

The system WILL NOT balance out. if anything, ANET will need to keep expanding the pip range to find matches. This will result in worse matches and fewer players. That will require expanding the pip range further… vicious cycle.

This experiment is a failure. The reason it is a failure is that the majority of players are not here for ultra competitive PvP, regardless of how much a small elite would like that to be true.

Actually I think there have been a couple of Hemi powered Fiats that would give a Ferrari a run for it’s money.

I agree, but at this point it’s a pretty small issue in the scheme of things. I’d rather see them stop the season, and fix the issues.

I like it, thanks for the graphic, it’s apt.

I’m really unhappy in Sapphire with consistent stomp matches. I get mostly emeralds on my team and once an amber duo queue’ing. At this point I consider a 10 loss streak relatively short.

What really kittens me off is it looks like there’s no way I can earn those wings which were for “everybody.”

I propose that the fix would be to reset everyone’s MMR, each day. This would prevent some of the extreme win and loss streaks the system is producing.

Your post is irrelevant as far as I can tell. Please clarify what you mean.

I think the ability to drop ranks would destroy the play. Like many others, I’m an average to below average skilled PvP player. I come for some fun and to grind for those shiny wings. If it were possible to lose ranks, I’d still be in Amber and most likely would have quit by now.

GW2 isn’t filled with highly competitive PvP players. For me at least, the main draw is the story telling and the pve. I suspect that’s true of many Tyrians.

Dropping ranks would alienate players and would likely reduce population to the point that pvp wouldn’t really work.

The reward tracks for regions of (pve) HoT already exist. All ANET would have to do is add mastery experience to the end reward and advertise it.

+1 I’ve been making offerings to Lyssa. The population is low enough that it would likely slow the queues. On the other hand, I think solo q would be a better test of each player’s skills. They couldn’t depend on a team to carry them.

-edit- and also anet is pushing for team play.

I’m not sure what you mean. Again, it’s difficult to make progress right now in the HoT pve maps. They are intended for large groups and there are seldom large groups.

I suggest therefore that a HoT mastery reward track be made for PvP. Perhaps it would attract some of the pve crowd as a bonus.

With most of the crowds gone from the HoT maps it’s very difficult to advance the various mastery tracks and continue the personal story or train HoT specialties.

So, make HoT mastery reward tracks. This would allow PvP players to advance specialties for pve and it might attract some of the pve players struggling to move forward.

I’m an example.. I played 10+ hours a day to get to Sapphire. I was running a bad build in the early games and got into mmr hell.

There really isn’t anything casual about pushing through solo. This is even more true after you lose a few games. If there were division losses in the lower tiers, it would alienate a lot of players.

It would also enable farming the division crossing achievement. Cross into Emerald, lose a few, cross into Emerald again, “et voila” achievement done.

Sorry it was Ignatius of Loyola and I misquoted slightly. Same meaning though. I apologize for the misquote.

I agree generally. Good points. One thing though, I strongly suspect that the majority of pvp players are or were pve players. As you pointed out, this is not a pure pvp game and really isn’t set up to be.

Yes, I’m better at pve and yes I’m grinding ( and stressing ) away in leagues in the hope of earning my wings. Yes, I want to earn them and yes I want to be able to.

A place exists for high level and highly competitive players. That place is in tournaments. I think the regular league should be considered a training area. Yes, it should be matched in such a way that players of most levels can be successful.

If HoTM is balanced like pure competitive tournaments, you chase away potential new players. Very few are masochistic enough to keep coming back after repeated stompings.

I believe it was Saint Augustine who said, “give me a child until he is 8 and I’ll give you an xtian for life.” What he meant was that the early experiences shape the rest. If a person comes into PvP and is at least moderately successful, they will likely stay and grow. If they are curb stomped, they will likely leave and not come back.

I think the grinding ends in Emerald. I was stuck for days. If players make it to Sapphire, they have some skills. I think the system is about right as it is.

Consider this; one of the requirements of advancing the ascension is to cross division barriers. If the divisions could be lost at lower levels.. then why not throw a couple of games on amber and cross into Emerald multiple times?

I’m currently Sapphire T1, playing mostly condi Mesmer and always solo queue. It’s been a very rough road.

I’d agree that Mesmer is not optimum, but it’s what I want to play. Warrior is similar, Thieves seem to be holding there own from what I’ve seen.

I think what the OP is trying to say is that playing a class like Mesmer as opposed to Necro or Guard means that the team will be theoretically weaker going into the match.

Therefore, one could argue that it’s a disservice to other players on one’s team to play something other than DH, RP or Ele and maybe Thf. This point has some real merit.

On the other hand, I’m not good at any of those 4 classes in a pvp setting. I can dungeon thief but that’s different. So, I could argue that in fact the best thing for me to do is play Mesmer. Sure, it’s not a top shelf class atm. I can play it better than I can play the other classes though.

On a personal note. I still like to rp some, even in PvP. Part of my fun is playing a Mesmer. I like the style and the magic. Maybe it would be worth taking some of the emphasis off pure competition. One can take that too far.

I’ll push far sometimes when looking at a ball of necros or dh. On Mesmer, that’s nearly an instant melt for me. My team is better served if I cap far than if I am quickly killed at mid.