-yawn- Heard it all before.
NEXT!!
Yet ANOTHER reason to bring Solo Q back!
One of the best trolling threads ever here. Those people who want soloQ in Ranked games and want Premades not to be allowed in Ranked games are the biggest trolls ever and it is you people because of whom the PvP is getting ruined.
When you enter solo in a Ranked game, no matter how good you are, you can not control other four randoms. Competitive gameplay is a team game and not a “Solo I dont care about others” fest!
Of course the PvP developers need to improve a few things like taking the PvE loot system out of equation, putting soloQ and PvE reward track in Unranked, bringing 3v3 arena system or 10v10 Rated battleground with Flag carrying play other than node capture etc. But it is the SoloQ and PvE reward track that first needs to be put off from Ranked system and the pip system changed with Ranking title tree etc which will bring the competitive game to justice.
People who want a solo fest can keep enjoying Unranked and stop trolling others by asking for removal of premades from Ranked.
Let’s debunk this right now.
You can form a team in BOTH unranked and ranked, there’s nothing stopping you from doing so. We who Solo Q are just saying separate the queues again because mixed queues between solo players and teams are unfair as a whole. There’s literally NOWHERE for Solo players to play in pvp.
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The most used part of their game is going to get the most attention. I’m guessing PvP has the lowest player base, maybe even lower than WvW so they have no incentive to improve it.
Sadly, you’re right. PvE always came first and now recently, WvW has been getting lots of attention. PvP, on the other hand….nothing.
……the pvp…….
The other problem is that the community flat out does not attack uncompetitive elements outright. You’ve got people more than happy to dole out 50$ to stomp F2P players citing “it is how it is”, and “they have to make money somehow”.
No wonder nobody cares.
THIS is critical. When the community does not attack uncompetitive and unfair elements, the game suffers! Elements such as premade teams being allowed in ranked and exploiting the matchmaking become normal and we slowly accept it. We slowly accept it because NOTHING CHANGES.
Let’s see, ESL finals are today!
Can anyone guess how many people will watch it on Twitch? 200? 300? Maybe it will even attract 500! Woooow! Such improvements! Such progress! Right? Right?
A 200000$ prize pool with a crumbling game mode on life support.
-sigh-
Yeah, Eir’s death just didn’t make any sense now that I think about it. There was no history and tension presented to us between them that would justify such a death. It was a total waste.
Having a few things back like this would do for a good start.
kitten it, what a waste. Removing Solo Q was a HUUUUGGGE mistake.
It’s a BROKEN system. Some players can pretend otherwise, but the facts are the facts! It can NEVER be fixed, it can only be DESTROYED AND REPLACED.
My feeling is that anet is out to please only their “ecompetitors” at whatever expense the community feel.
This game has hands down the worst pvp system I’ve seen and Im taking swtor into account. Wvw is brilliant, I enjoy raids, pve is fun. pvp is garbage.
Eh, 3/4 aint bad.
I LITERALLY have one foot in the grave when it comes to pvp. If this next patch doesn’t address these problems, then I’m done with pvp for good. It’s just not fun anymore.
I’m tired, tired, TIRED of conquest for 4 freakin’ straight years. It just doesn’t bring people in. I mean look at the ESL lol. Pathetic!
I mean come on. Stronghold pretty much crashed and burned. There’s just no other ways to have fun in this mode. I was really patient, maybe too much so. But hey, we all have limits right?
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I’ve been patient with gw2, but after 4 years in and STILL with the same problems….no longer. PvP back then, though flawed, still had potential IMO. The “e-sports” consensus has RUINED this game, has ruined the fun, and frankly I’m just disappointed. I think we all need to wake up and smell the coffee. PvP is a COMPLETE joke.
You have the saaaame stale conquest mode for 4 years now. The leaderboards were replaced with a WORSE league system, which is basically a glorified reward track, NOT a competition. Solo Q was removed which ruined the pvp experience for people. HoT killed the game balance. Thanks to the leagues, matchmaking is also ruined for people. I can go on and on….I just want to know….what happened?
I look back pvp and I can sum it in one word………..squandered.
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NOPE. Not interested.
My good will towards pvp and leagues has COMPLETELY vanished. I gave them 3 chances hoping they would be somewhat workable…but they failed…miserably.
I’m done with that nonsense.
Now, I’m just confusing everyone.
I’ll just say I have trouble adjusting to Scrapper compared to core engi, that’s all. I haven’t played engi since 2014.
Hi guys I took a long break of this game due to the nonbalance and poor matchmaking, my question is: did anet already fixed the game or is it the same kitten game since HoT?
Nope, not fixed. It’s the SAME since HoT. It’s “elite specs/e-sports or bust”.
Elite builds are still vastly superior to the core builds. The only significant change is that elites are finally balanced within themselves. Leagues are still a grind-based joke. Thanks to the league and pip system, matchmaking is broken and can NEVER be fixed.
So yeah, basically just stay away. If you are going to play, just play unranked/hotjoin so you don’t tear your hair out.
To the OP, I know how you feel. The game has changed for the worse. The powercreep and elite specs are just NONSENSE. While they’re balanced within themselves, they’re still vastly superior to the original specs. Also, the league is a complete JOKE. It’s a freakin’ reward track to grind for a backpack. There is no competition in this system, it’s nothing but RNG matchmaking lottery grind.
PvP really has changed. I’ve been here since release. PvP was just way more fun back then. You had tournaments, SoloQ, leaderboards, it was just a more fun environment back then, pvp had potential. Yes, there were still balance problems but you could deal with them. From June-Oct 2015 before HoT and after trait changes, the game balance was going in the right direction, then HoT came out and everything just IMPLODED.
We’re 4 years in this game and pvp has moved BACKWARDS.
Yes, it’s too late. Don’t bother.
IMO, raids should’ve never been in this game, but…whatever.
I’m going to agree with the people that want it accessible for more players. Do it through tiered difficulty with different reward levels or just stick an easy mode with no rewards at all. The “hardcore” literally have NO reason to complain. Their experience will not be affected. As a matter of fact, it will be added to it. More players will learn the raid for the highest level, therefore players won’t have to freakin’ join a guild or wait ages for pugs. The “hardcore” will actually BENEFIT from this.
to be honest 1600 total rank games is not that high if you are playing since launch. I have more than 6k ranked match, and i m not a pvper cuz i play a lot of wvw.
But ye matchmaking is broken since it helps a lot new account/players cuz they get carried from more experienced players with higher total match played. Unfortunately, the mmr don’t give a kitten about how many games you have, so the same guy with 400-500 match who has similar mmr to you will be matched with you, but we all know that he lacks 2/3 of your experience, and you can easily notice it during the match.
Haha imagine that! So, veteran players are pretty much just mules to carry new players! That is hilarious!
Changing the trait system on June 23rd. It drastically lowered build diversity and creativity, which is part of the reason we see everyone running the same builds.
True, the 6/23 trait system threw everything in a loop. However, for a while somehow….it worked. HoT was when everything really just IMPLODED.
Expansion excluded, which honestly only upset whatever balance there was.
How is it there are less features in pvp now, then there were on GW2’s release?
- Tournament tokens gone, tournaments in general.
- I’ll consider rank emotions gone since ANET just ended up making them grindable.
– Underwater combat gone
- Mystic forge gone
- Unique PVP weapons gone
- Unique PVP Armor goneAnd whether your a casual or not, the pandering to the PVE element of GW2 is truly what killed pvp in this game. Even the rewards system is a joke. Why not hand players a trophy, title, gems, gold, every other currency for tying their shoes too.
TL:DR (My QQ. GW1 glory pvp days are long gone, the future of GW2 is…. well sad)
BG
Man, I know how you feel.
To me, it’s time to face the music. PvP is much WORSE than when we started, and that’s just sad.
I’m sorry I threw you off there, my primary concern is that engineer just requires so much more micro-management compared to the past.
gw2 pvp in a nut shell. spam condi, evade, evade, evade, spam condi, block, block, block, invul, evade, moar conditions!
Exactly! It’s like skill just went down a notch.
This power creep is insane. I’ve just started recently playing engi for the first time since 2014 and it’s just like…whoa. I thought I had a handful managing kits/skills before, but this is ridiculous. With engi now, you have to play like freakin BEETHOVEN just to break even. It’s nuts! Engi just doesn’t feel skillful now as before, it’s just spam, spam, spam. Hell, everything is spam, spam, spam. Elite builds have good defense, too.
Everybody is running elite builds that are pretty much just bruisers on steroids!
Good point, but take into consideration this. Everyone’s running elite builds. Elite builds are pretty much bruisers on steroids.
I’m finding I have to take bunker-like stats and traits just to SURVIVE. Pre-HoT pvp was just simply superior.
The current league, pip, and rewards system is also very flawed. I won’t go into too many details because of the slew of threads, but yeah it’s troubling. It seems like the system is trying to give a sense of progression to every player, but it is in fact just inflating egos and not giving a really measurable progression that matters (skill-based). But that in itself requires a higher population, and thus maybe what we have is the best we got.
Good post. Its worth noting that Overwatch has just provided some details of its competitive mode and they have taken player feedback into account and it will be a skill based system rather than a tier based system. It will be mmr based (no tiers) and therefore reflect a players skill rather than be progression based. The games producer outright stated that players did not want a system heavily weighted around tiers and progression which only makes the ranked system a grind.
Anet should take note, not only of the system but the way Blizzard are taking player feedback into account and the transparency of communication.
THATS a no-brainer. Leagues are just a grind/progression system. Overwatch made a good decision here. Gw2 should take notes.
I’ve mained an engineer for the first two years of this game, back in 2013-2014. I used to run flamethrower/turret builds mostly. You juggled multiple skills and kits back then, but back then, skills felt like they had a purpose. Playing engi just felt more tactical.
Now with HoT and Scrapper builds, the engineer profession just feels like constant skill spam. It feels like you pretty much have to press even more buttons and f-bursts than before just to keep up. It LITERALLY feels like playing freakin Beethoven.
What say you!
The sad thing is that everyone except for the matchmaking team knew that the matchmaking system was going to be a failure this season. It’s not possible to have balanced, non-blowout games when one team is stacked to win every game.
It’s boring and why a lot of people are playing overwatch or other games.
The problem is more than the matchmaking. The problem is also the league pip system! As long as pip system exists, matchmaking will NEVER be fixed!
i would go for this. But be prepared for more ranting on forum. So in perspective of ANET i wouldn’t do this as they have to keep the majority happy not the minority.
They changed the match making after season 1 because the “pro” players complained. I don’t see how that was keeping everyone happy. As far as PvP is concerned, ANet only wants the “pro” mentality group of players happy. Everyone else can hang. That’s the feeling I get from them as far as PvP is concerned.
if ANet really only cared about “pro” players, we would have a balanced meta and proper ranked system, I can assure you. Thing is, Anet wants everyone to be able to get their wings, and so the system allows it.
Not quite, if the system where to allow anyone to get there wings, there would be no division crossing achievement needed for them. I thought I was going to be done this season with the wings, but nope, I’ll have to play next season and get to ruby if I want my wings.
In all honesty I feel that one achievement causes the most salt.
They do care about there “pro” players, there wouldn’t be a prize fund if they didn’t. The only time they change anything to do with PvP is when the “pros” complain, see season 1. “pro” makes a QQ you tube video about after 8 hours he’s only in emerald. ANet change it to the way it is now. Even though a lot of people think the pip system is a joke.
Unfortunately, that “pro” player should NOT have been listened to. The problem IS the pip system. The pip system creates all the matchmaking and progression problems BY DESIGN.
It’s a grind-system for the backpack! That’s ALL it is. There’s NOTHING competitive about it!
Please let it be this one and THATS IT.
This league and pip system is terrible. It’s a JOKE.
Yes, I can get behind this. A true ladder based system like leaderboard is superior to a pip system.
I’ve realized that with the current league pip system, NOTHING will work. The pip system is, like players and I have said, A REWARD TRACK. That is all that the pip system is.
Vicky, why so much hostility in your post? Let’s not take what I’m saying out of context – if you earn it, you deserve it. I never stated it was a “reward track.” You did, and we both know the difference.
A system that doesn’t penalize losses after a certain point is essentially a reward track.
Again, this game is supposed to be fun to play – not hardcore play 12hrs+ a day or go uninstall it you noob kitten. Whether I win or lose, I want the “best” opportunity for a “fair” match. Not PUG meets PREMADE. But, I digress.
You don’t need a hardcore play 12hrs a day whatever. The best opportunity for fair matches is when people can drop divisions instead of being artificially propped up by a system that doesn’t allow for losses in tiers.
Pugs vs premades are not an issue. Anet metrics themselves state that very few matches are loss to full pugs against full premades. You only remember those matches more because you’re trying to seek an excuse to why you loss. It’s all in your head.
I disagree with you. Defend it? I defend it hours upon hours, and days upon days, at a time. Why? Cause the system, as is, is broken, and time and time again I’m stuck w/ new players, low rated players, and/or PVE-ers who could give 2-cents less in the end. There are several other factors, but the point remains that I shouldn’t have to give back ALL my effort, time, and sweat due to some run of bad luck or other players not playing at the same skill level as me.
That’s great! We agree! The system is broken! Because no tier regression!
Those PvErs who wouldn’t give 2 cents, those low rated players, those AFK players would drop down to a lower division over time. If only we could allow tier regression. Meanwhile players who play to win would rise ahead.
As for what happens when you remove all those factors? I’m fine w/ losing pipes. It keeps things in check. GW2 PvP Dev team already saw to increasing the necessary tiers required to cross into the next Division – making it harder and harder for a casual and/or PvE-er to obtain the coveted “Legendary” status.
What? It’s pathetically easy for anyone to get the legendary status. Make it harder.
Ultimately, what I’m hearing is it sounds like some of the 1% sitting on top of the Ranking just don’t want their efforts diminished by the “casual” player doing the unthinkable – joining in their stature. Is this another social class in the making within a game?
Well, considering it IS a league and ladder, you do know what leagues and ladders mean right? You’re supposed to be divided.
Ultimately, no one cares but you and your own ego. Furthermore, if anyone should defend themselves and all their glory, then let it be those that have hit Legendary. Let them face the chance of losing their coveted title if a new gladiator comes along to knock them off their “throne.”
You sound like you have something against players who want to play a competitive game mode the way it was intended. Each player should be rated and judged within each division. Not just legendary. Currently, there is almost no difference between each division. Amber, Emerald and Sapphire are pretty much one extended division. Ruby through Legendary and pretty much the same too.
Remove the division handicaps. Let players disperse naturally in a curve instead of propping them up. Then we’ll see how matchmaking pans out from there.
Until you remove all these artificial barriers, you will never be able to create a functional matchmaking system.
I thought of the division loss idea before, then I reconsidered. While the idea itself is good, I think division loss would work better in a LEADERBOARD system since wins/losses are calculated and NOT PIPS.
YOU CANNOT FIX THIS SYSTEM.
Heh you guys amuse me with your SHILLING of the league system! Just because us players hate the system DOES NOT mean we’re “entitled” or “uncompetitive”! If anything YOU are the entitled ones for shilling for it thanks to the luck-based matchmaking and pip system for skyrocketing players to legendary.
For the record, I think the leagues should be destroyed. No matter how you tweak it, remove division barriers/change matchmaking, I’ve realized that YOU CAN’T FIX IT. The way it was designed and made just doesn’t work. Pip progression just doesn’t work.
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Even your pretentious talking doesn’t change a kittening thing about the fact that the odds aren’t even while they easily could’ve been.
Anet does this by design. They thought it would be a good idea to intentionally teamstack one team and give the 5 strongest players to one team, while giving the 5 weakest the other. They merely find players within a 15 pip range as a placebo to give them impression of close matchmaking, since players can’t see MMR, which the teams are actually based off of.
This is the system that Anet designed – one that is inherently biased and non-competitive. This was intentional.
It’s why GW2 PvP is dying at alarming speeds.
TRUTH! All else is irrelevant!
I would like to take this time to thank Anet for allowing pre-comp’d coordinated voice-comm groups to be roll against us Solo Queue players. It feels awesome that I can be helpful to others by sacrificing my body for their MMR. Now that I’ve found my purpose in life, it’s like I beat the game! Or did the game beat me?
After 3 seasons of complaints and arguments about fairness and balance, I’m not sure what else we can say about this. I fully understand that organized teams will always have an advantage. That’s how GvG was. That’s how Pro League is. Heck, that’s how all “team” based competition should be. But Solo Queuers who choose to play in randomly formed teams shouldn’t be cannon fodder for others’ MMR gains. This is truly a case where the rich get richer and the poor stays poor.
For season 4, please consider two separate queues. Solo Q and Comp’d Q. That would solve a lot of the issues. Allow organized teams to fight each other, and then you can get real feedback on how strong teams are. Real MMR scores for partied players can be calculated. Then future matches will be more even instead of complete wipeouts.
These suggestions have been brought forth constantly, but pvp STILL is the weakest link in the gw2 flagship. There is NOTHING competitive about these leagues, absolutely nothing at all.
I’ve been hurling myself at the league games as hard as I can since the beginning of the season. I think I’ve gotten somewhere over 570 games? Only 210 were victories and I’m still in Ruby’s upper tiers because of loss streaks.
Teammates can cause bad things to happen. Sometimes you just end up against a team who knows how to call targets and focus them well. Sometimes their comps are better than ours. Sometimes I or a number of others play bad or make poor decisions, or just plain do bad on certain maps (Kyhlo/Temple for me in particular).
I just keep trying, but I admit that its tiring at times and I find myself taking breaks because it becomes less about enjoying a good match and more of a troublesome grind that I often feel that I’ll never finish before the season ends.
It doesn’t help that I feel as though my favorite profession has eaten some knee-jerk nerfs that have made things more difficult in the current Meta, and I dont have time/really want to git gud at one of the other top meta professions for results when they’re not really as fun for me.
The more you play, the more you lose, therefore the harder it is to climb out of the hole. Personally I play for no more than 10 games a day. Usually I win 50-65 % of my games. Last two days, though I had bad nights. Those bad nights add up if you just beating your head against the system. There’s really no point.
leaderboard were never gone.
it is now known as the legendary prestige leaderboard.
Technically…you’re right!
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I had the most fun in pvp during the soloq leaderboard. It’s straight downhill from then and we’re at the bottom now.
Ha! Got that right! That’s what LEAGUES should really be about, climbing a TABLE. None of this pip nonsense.
To grind for the backpiece.
TRUTH! All else is irrelevant.
A simple leaderboard showing who has the most matches won and what league they are in would be nice. Yeah, it might be a grind fest to get to the top but it would at least show experience. I’d take anything at this point.
I’d even take a league leaderboard… Just show all players and their league.
OR add up total divisions crossed since S1…
Same here. Anything, even leaderboard with grinding, is better than leagues. It is crystal clear pvp has gone down the drain.
But hey, at least unranked is still fun.
Yeah I said it. Bring them back!
The league is nothing but a grind-fest for the legendary wings. Deep down, I think all players realize this, even if they don’t want to admit it. I tried, TRIED to give leagues a chance, hoping that it could be made better, but…nope. The bad matchmaking mixed in with pip progression, the attitudes, bad progression system that doesn’t allow you to lose divisions, even from Amber, has jaded me. THREE seasons and THREE chances I gave, no more.
After season 4, or the end of Year of Ascension, or however it’s done I advocate for the leagues to be removed and for leaderboards to be brought back in! Leaderboards for the most part were fine. Though it was also a grind-fest, it was a grind-fest for a different reason: the ranking and win/loss calculation. The games during the leaderboard era were MUCH better in quality. Blowouts were mostly rare since you had the 50/50 matchmaking back then.
Bring them back!
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There’s also a secret scenario: Your MMR does not accurately represent your skill level at the moment.
That’s not a secret scenario. Given the mechanics of the s3 system, that’s practically a given. Which, by the way, makes the first part of your thoughts pretty much irrelevant when applied to current season.
Maybe this MMR and Pip system is ideally good enough, but how MMR itself is calculated may be the actual issue. As I understand, it was intended to evaluate players based on an equal 50% skill split between the two teams. If you win, it’s because you may have been better than the estimated 50/50 split, thus adjusts it upwards. However if the teams are not split as such, losing still drops MMR. They admit it doesn’t affect it as much, but it still effects it enough to make an unusual win against prediction too rare to have positive results. Especially considering there are hard coded walls (the pip/division loss prevention) that completely inhibit recalibration. This should be resulting in runaway MMR issues (elo hell?).
Exactly. They are using 2 separate systems, that work perfectly fine when used alone, but that actively hinder each other when put together. To make things worse they add up some even more damaging mechanics like the system intentionally favoring one side.
The whole system is put together in such a way that each of the subcomponents depends on the other subcomponent to work fine, but at the same time it prevents that subcomponent from working right, by distorting the data it works with. The end result is a real mess.
Ha! Seems about right to me!
Let’s not. Leagues give you an incentive to even bother in the first place. The old leaderboards sure as hell did not. Rewards ain’t got nothing to with it, they’re terrible anyway. No one does PvP for rewards.
Incentive? Yes! The shiny backpack! That shiny backback is the SOLE reason the leagues even have a shred of relevance. If not for that backpack, these leagues are DEAD.
The leaderboards may have been a grind, but that was because of the way they calculated wins/losses. The matches were much, much better.
PvP league is just such a failure.
It creates a painful grinding process for players like OP and a meaningless title for so-called top players.
Those ESL players get legendary easily but I can also get legendary easily although my skill level is so much lower than theirs. Such a meaningless league at both ends of the stick.
You got THAT right. After Year of Ascension or league season 4 ends, I suggest Anet SCRAP these leagues. These leagues are a total failure. It brought new players in the short-term, but destroyed pvp in the long-term.
I will dare say that LEADERBOARDS should be brought back. I enjoyed that a lot more.
Hahaha yes! I much rather have leaderboards again than grinding for pips! You can even several leaderboards. One for solo players, one for teams, one for guilds, you can even have profession-only leaderboards, profession-only with TEAMS, etc. The combinations are endless.
I agree, get rid of leagues after year of ascension is over. Pointless and toxic feature anet will never get right.
I’m going to have to agree. Get rid of leagues and bring back the leaderboards!
I see some people here trash leaderboards, calling them a grind-fest, but guess what? So are leagues! Plus, matches in the old leaderboard system were MUCH better.
As much as it pains me to say, these leagues have failed.
Leagues were just badly implemented from the beginning. You had no division loss, you still allowed premade teams vs solo players, and the matchmaking system was mixed in with all the bad implementation.
You NEED complete tier and division loss so players are placed where they BELONG. Yes, all the way down to Amber. If players keep losing games, they should be punished and sent to lower divisions. Or else, this becomes a grind-based ladder. You NEED separate solo and team queues so they don’t interfere with and allow the players to exploit the matchmaking system. You NEED these things for a fair and competitive atmosphere and game!
It’s amazing. It’s been 3 seasons, and we still get the SAME results = players grind for the backpack and exploit MM system and premades to do so!
I’ve played all 3 seasons: Ruby, Ruby and Sapp respectively and I see this system much more clearly than I did before. Gw2 has improved since the spring update, wvw is looking good, pve has always been fun, but pvp STILL continues to be the weakest link.
I think you should’ve had division loss from the beginning of season 1. The MM system in season 1 was good imo. If Anet had separated soloq and teamq, I think matchmaking wouldn’t been affected. Anet should’ve definitely brought out division loss for leagues, this is crucial for any fair competitive game.
I mean, look at this. HOW MANY THREADS are there complaining about bad players in emerald, in sapphire, ruby, diamond, legend? Tons! This is because those players shouldn’t be there in the first place, they need to drop. In any competitive ladder, you lose positions. Why not here?
The MM system is slightly better, but not by much. It’s the lesser evil, really. The system still stacks better teams against lesser teams, but the MMR player gap is smaller, which makes it so the lesser team has a fighting chance. The league system, though, has worse problems.
PREMADES. Premades are just unfair, period. Also, premades constantly mess up the matchmaking systems that have been tried. One probably could argue that premades are a major source of the matchmaking problems. This is the same old problem with merged queues as always. Bring back solo q and team q!
NO DIVISION LOSS. In any competitive ladder, you gain and lose tiers and divisions. In leagues, your tiers and divisions are GUARANTEED. In amber, emerald, sapphire you dont lose tiers and divisions. In ruby, diamond, legend you don’t lose divisions, but you lose tiers. Now what happens? Since nobody loses divisions in ANY division, the players that constantly lose games will be stuck there in perpetuity and won’t get better, thus losing more games and making others quit, which affects matchmaking, etc. Those players need to drop down to lower divisions to help lower players and themselves advance.
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