It’s pretty fun!
However, VodCom is on point with suggestions.
The ball is hard to keep track of, both when it’s in play and out-of-bounds.
Man, when I was exploring Orr for the first time, I ran like hell through Cursed Shore just to get to the Arah waypoint. This was back at release when the undead were buffed. I was just taking a beating trying to dodge the undead mobs! I felt so proud when I got to Arah its like I dodged a gauntlet.
It’s more than just DH. DH can be beaten, but its still op. DH is just like all the other low-risk/high-reward builds of the past: turret engi, condi warr, bunker chrono, d/d elem
It’s a problem with profession balance and traits. There’s just not enough balance in this game.
OF COURSE, like all the other players whose class is undeservedly on top, they defend it to the death!
So,50/50 is back.
Well, at least the matchmaking is fair. Despite what players say, this is BY FAR the most fair matchmaking system. We’ve had 50/50 since season 1 and, I think, the beginning of the game.
Unfortunately, the problem IS and ALWAYS will be, the league system. The league system just doesn’t work in this game. As long as you have pips, matchmaking will always be a problem. Guaranteed.
I don’t necessarily support the trinity, but I do support the concept of roles. I think of roles as rules of the game that players and AI must follow. They help organize and give structure to a game. Also, roles will always have limits, that’s why they’re roles. They will always restrict the player in some way. There’s nothing wrong with that. I think the problem people had with the trinity is that they restrict you too much.
I think of gw1 and they’ve got it right. You didn’t just have the trinity of tank, healer, dps, you also had a secondary profession to give your character more freedom in what you could do. The secondary gave you more freedom to supplement your character, not to supercede it. Gw1 had a good system.
Watched that video and laughed my pants off.
Competitive scene in gw2? Its not gonna happen. You know why?
Competitive games are not based on “pro” players. They are always based on casual players that give a game the needed playerbase, “elitism” of leaderboards and FUNDS, yes casual players pay more for a game then so called hardcore pro players. No casual players – you get 1000 people watching championships on twitch!
Take a look at LoL, blizzard games etc. Do you see anything in common? Yes, an average casual gamer CAN be involved in competitive scene and he is willing to do so, not to get somekind of “elite only” item, but surprise BECAUSE ITS FUN.
Atm in gw2 spvp for an average player is NOT FUN, cause:
1) balance issues, not evertyone is willing to play “the most op prof atm”, and for a some strange reasons there are simply op professions and up professions. Average player doesnt want to get involved in deep “build” system, deep mechanics of spvp, he wants to play and have fun. For example i dont play any other classes than ele, i JUST DONT LIKE THEM, and i dont find it being fun to play them. BUT the current system is based on making me play other classes such as warriors,mesmers, necros etc that can dish out more dps/vitality/utility than an ele without even knowing how to play that class.
2) matchmaking is horrible. You can easily get 5 man premade vs 2 man premade and 3 randoms. No anet – this is not a good work.
3) class stacking – why should i even bother to play a game vs mesmer, 2 necros, 2 guards comp?
4) condi spam – the worst there can be, no skill is needed to apply a condi on you enemy, condies do a lot of dmg and are op without a good condi clear to which a lot of classes have no access. Mesmer can spamm staff 1 all day long to get a lot of condies. And a defending class needs to push 5-10 buttons to save his butt.
5) build diversity is not present. You just cant go for “oh i think this will work just fine” against a p.3 comp.
6) conquest map type. It is just bad, holding points to win will limit the number of builds that can work in that game type (bunkers). We need deathmatch arenas 1v1/2v2/3v3/ 5v5/ 10/10. Capture the flag can work. OR make stronghold a thing, all it needs is some little love.And you can “hold hands together” all you want with pro player Helseth, but without us casual players the scene is blank and if anet wants to make this esport thing work, they need to make OUR gaming experience worth it and not those 1-2% of pros.
About money put into marketing. Didnt you actually think that besides those “taxy adds” they can actually put that money into promotions, lottery, some usefull marketing ads? Or cut the marketing expenses and invest into hiring some experienced balance team? Marketing is 0 without a good working game to actually attract players.
A good game will always get new customers via other gamers who already play the game. Thats how i got into gw2, ive been told that this game is skill based, balanced, FUN and not a p2w. That got ME into gw2, and i got a lot more players into gw2 because if not for spvp, gw2 IS the best mmo there is at the moment (pve is godlike, wvw is decent).So to conclude. No we dont need to “hold hands together to make a better future” we need the core issues adressed and fixed.
Haha I give you a round of applause good sir!
No…..
Gaah! What a shame. Lena was a great composer. The HoT tracks were brilliant! Wish her well.
Majority HOT skills were designed to be play in PVE/Raid that’s why PVP is such a mess right now. Skills flying everywhere, just spam on CD there wasn’t any thought about the skill. PVP IS HORRIBLE
Yup.
The elite specs are definitely PvE-oriented. The specs seem to have been designed for you to constantly press keys and spam skills.
I think this is technically the old system we had, some things were exclusive to pvp and wvw and pve but again i think they decided to merge them more at some point. Dont quote me on this, im not sure. Wasnt there something mentioned about this though by them? Some sort of improvement, i forgot what it was.
Skills used to be split between the gamemodes. Then at some point (I think the big balance update before HoT) they merged all of the skills between the three gamemodes in order to “simplify” things for the new HoT stuff. Now I think they are realizing it isn’t a great idea and are splitting the skills again.
Is that right? If so, it’s no wonder why pvp is in this terrible state. I assume you’re referring about the June 2015 patch and the new trait system?
Yeah, that is what I was talking about. I just looked through them and found there were cases where they merged, but I think there were still some split skills at that point. I may be remembering wrong.
You might be right.
Heh. Yup. That’s about the time pvp started to unravel. The new trait system threw pvp into a tailspin. HoT….was the crash.
I think this is technically the old system we had, some things were exclusive to pvp and wvw and pve but again i think they decided to merge them more at some point. Dont quote me on this, im not sure. Wasnt there something mentioned about this though by them? Some sort of improvement, i forgot what it was.
Skills used to be split between the gamemodes. Then at some point (I think the big balance update before HoT) they merged all of the skills between the three gamemodes in order to “simplify” things for the new HoT stuff. Now I think they are realizing it isn’t a great idea and are splitting the skills again.
Is that right? If so, it’s no wonder why pvp is in this terrible state. I assume you’re referring about the June 2015 patch and the new trait system?
I’ve watched Helseth’s video. Honestly, I’m not surprised.
We all need to remember he’s a paid professional. Pros will always support the scene. They’re not going to stop supporting it, it hurts their pocket. It’s a conflict of interest. I get it.
Still, Helseth fails to realize that the community doesn’t want a competitive scene AT THEIR EXPENSE. There is resentment and hostility to the scene because the rest of the playerbase and PvP itself has been neglected in favor of it.
Also, Helseth’s “Let’s just hold hands as a community” just ain’t going to cut it. Not while there are obvious and glaring problems to address with game balance and priorities.
(edited by JTGuevara.9018)
ok i know the elite specs are OP compared to base builds but the elite specs have more or less been perfectly balanced in the meta.
and if elite specs are balanced you cant really argue that someone is being carried by their build since everyone is using elite specs.
and JTguevara i see you on lots of forums posts what do you mean soloq doesnt exist??
i got legend and beyond in every single season except the first ( cus i couldnt be bothered to play the bunker meta with those mesmers lol ) and 90 % of that was soloque. so i dont really get what youre saying. once you start duo and tripple queing.. thats when you can end up getting teamed against a 5 man team. but soloq is soloq so youre not gonna get 5 man teams really.
Sorry, wrong.
There is NO Solo Queue. Solo Queue means that ONLY individual players are allowed to queue with and against each other in matches. No teams allowed. This means players are not allowed to set up a party. No 2-man, 3-man, 4-man or full 5-man.
Today, you can queue as a solo individual, but teams are also allowed, yours and the opponents’. Players can set up parties alongside you…..or against you…..
uuuuhh……….yes it does…….
The thing is, OP, you miss a lot of points on why PvP sucks. We don’t just complain because of the league and our position, we complain because PvP has obviously changed for the worse.
First, the release of HoT broke the PvP balance. Thanks to the new elite specializations, PvP is really unbalanced in their favor. Elite specs and their builds are too strong compared to regular specs. If you run regular specs you don’t stand a chance. This makes for a bad, unfair environment for the majority of players. Elite specs, as of current, give you everything: power, support, bunker, condis, passive traits mostly all in one build. They take a lot of skill out of the game. Builds used to have tradeoffs, support instead of condi, power instead of bunker. There’s no sense of cost to builds anymore, everybody can do everything. The only way elite specs can be beaten is…….other elite specs…….
Second, the leagues. People warned about having leagues, that they would lose players…and yet it happened. The league system didn’t work. All the pips function did was to create a ladder to grind to legendary. It’s not a competition, not in the slightest, its a reward track. That players complain because they couldn’t advance up the divisions is inconsequential. The league system just doesn’t work. Also, no Solo Queues. Solo players went in and got farmed by teams. The leagues either should’ve had separate queues or made only for teams.
Third, esports. Twitch streams are a 1000 for a reason, nobody freakin cares about watching the SAME guys duke it out with the SAME builds in the SAME game mode since the start. Who in their right mind wants to see that? You call this progress?
Fourth, no Solo Q. I’m tired of people saying PvP is for teams. PvP is for EVERYONE. Solo players and team players had separate arenas in the past. Solo players queued individually in solo arena and team players in team arena. Now, it’s just teams. The queues got merged so solo players and teams had to queue together. And….it’s been a disaster. Leagues are an obvious example.
But do go ahead and tell me PvP is ‘fine’.
LOL at this question.
It’s going to be the SAME thing as always. Nothing has changed!
Elite specs or bust, spam condi, spam passives, spam invulns/blocks. Spam, spam, spam, get your wings, leave. Does it even MATTER who’s ‘meta’ at this point?
From wikipedia: “https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glicko_rating_system”
‘The Glicko rating system and Glicko-2 rating system are methods for assessing a player’s strength in games of skill, such as chess and go. It was invented by Mark Glickman as an improvement of the Elo rating system, and initially intended for the primary use as a chess rating system.’
I now ask, why does gw2 have this? It has been shown from numerous threads that using the glicko system just does not work for this game. It was meant for games like chess. Now, I admit, I may not know the details of the glicko rating system and how it works, but I know that it doesn’t work!
To think that you actually have to even tinker and manipulate the ratings to get a competitive match PROVES to me that it doesn’t work. This has been more evident with world linking. Also, manipulating glicko ratings messes up the servers and matchmaking as was shown with SBI and CD.
WvW will never prosper with the glicko rating system.
(edited by JTGuevara.9018)
“You heard Grast—You’ve—You’ve—-You’ve heard—-You heard Grast—-You heard Grast, hold the line! Send the intruders to Grenth!”
Heh one of my favorites. :P
You know things are going in the wrong direction when the organiser of events decides to fix matches.
Imagine the outcry if this was a pro football league!
LMAO!
Glicko is the scoreboard!
PvP is already dead, Anet wanted this game for casuals and there you have, a bunch of passives, automatic stun breaker traits and condi cheese which only leads to boredom.
@Chaith you’re a pro and veteran player I can’t believe you are actually approving Anet patches… seriously dude the game is full of passives and there’s not skill involved at all, not even at high lvl play because that’s more team coordination than skill.
Yes this meta is somehow more faster than the last ones but it isn’t even close to what balance means lol, stop trying to defend something which isn’t defensible.
I don’t give a crap about disagreeing with the majority of players that blindly trash every patch, just cause’ ArenaNet didn’t get absolutely everything right. Just cause ‘the game’s full of passives’, doesn’t mean the game didn’t come back from the brink of the worst balance ever in fall 2015. Patches since then must’ve been so bad just as you say, huh.
So to you, the game has no skill involved at all, who cares that there’s now incomprehensible power differences due to mechanical skill on Guardians, Revs, Mesmers, Warriors, and Necros, and Thieves all now running high risk, high reward amulets if they didn’t before?
You may not consider team coordination and using support properly as skill, and all professions being represented equally, and healthy pace of action in PvP not being balance related. You’re entitled to your opinion but I don’t think what you’re saying is even close to being common sense.
People on the forums be like, lol anet sux, but never acknowledge good things that happen.
Remind me of the good things that has happened to sPvP caused by ANet since HoT release? To me it just seems ANet now has completely giving up on turning this game into a competitive skill based game. Instead is doubling down to make GW2 in all aspects the most noncompetitive super casual action based MMO on the market. And at this point, it’s probably the cheapest and safest route for ANet to go.
At least they’ll have a somewhat of a monopoly in this on the market atm. A game where all the players that do not have the ability to play any Action MMO can, that requires more personal skill and reflexes then GW2 can main. On the causal scale GW2 is the highest MMO on the market.
GW2 don’t completely sux btw. It’s sPvP however is just complete trash compared to many many other games. It’s PvE is ok in Fractals and Raids, maybe some of the events. It’s WvW, well it looks like WvW will follow the same suit as sPvP game mode.
Yup. PvE is the best thing this game has, by far. A lot of people are looking forward to LW3 and many people love the new fractal.
Also, I have to say, I like WvW more but yeah…it’s going down the same path. The powercreep and balance is ruining it just as well.
PvP is currently just unacceptable.
You see, THIS is why gw1 had better pvp. Every skill had a purpose and was effective, you just needed a build for it.
As a warrior, in the state of the game today, what possible purpose do banners have? Banners literally have no use in PvP. Revenants take boons and just do it better.
LOL i find everyone comments funny.
The title says it all. Anet cant fix it by brining back cele or clerics because PvP has been pretty broken since HOT came out.
Arguing over whos fault it is, im all for but its the big bosses jobs to make those. Honestly if anyone has worked for a billion dollar company or a company that makes 5+ million a year know that there is 1 big boss who makes a few decisions and then he puts people in charge of certain areas to be in charge of those. In this case i dont know who but the people who made the new HOT specs, the people who have readjusted traits and cd on stuff, and control of the classes in which direction they want the game to go are at fault of the PvP and WvW scene dying. Its just not one group or one person.
I mean they are coming out with another expansion, i for one will show my displeasure by not buying it. Core GW2 was amazing and many of my guild mates would agree but HOT is frustrating to the many on so many different levels. These balance issues are not only effecting PvP.
In this case, though, bringing back clerics is a short-term fix. That is, rewind what you’ve just broken. It would fix a crack, but not solve anything else.
A lot of people here use twitch as a bar to measure player activity, but nobody is paying attention to hotjoin. Hotjoin is basic PvP. It’s where people generally pick up and play. I think hotjoin is a better measure of not only player activity, but new blood. Without new players, PvP has no future.
I’ve played this thing since the beginning. I kept track of hotjoin. You had around 20-30 active and full public servers. NOW you only have 2 or 3. You had multiple active custom servers, now they’re empty. You scroll down and all you see….0/25……0/25……0/25……0/25…..2/25 if there’s a duel.
I dare anybody come and tell me this game is growing.
I dislike how there’s pretty much zero interaction between the “skills team” and us players. And we have to resort to pleading and yelling at the poor PvP & WvW teams for changes. Of course we didn’t know until now that these teams didn’t even have the abilities & authorities on making skills balance changes. No effing wonder.
I miss the HoT beta weekends where skills team actually talked with players on the forums, and they went on GW2’s twitch streams every week to talk about upcoming changes and to answer questions. Imagine what class balance would be like if they still did that, I think things would’ve been much better.
Robert Gee was a rock star who made beautiful elite specs out of necros & mesmers. I remember early HoT launch necros even had viable power reaper builds. Of course things got quickly nerfed down over time and now we’re left with only viable condi reaper builds for any competitive play. Blarggh.
My guess is that Anet locked them away to work on the next expansion. Just a guess. Because wheover’s in charge of this “one size fits all” skills team is doing a terrible job. Players across PvP, WvW, and to some extent PvE are quite unhappy with class balance. Oh yeah and I’m thinking Grouch probably took some heat for speaking the truth, because he kinda pulled a whistleblower heh.
We plead to the PvP team to balance the game because there’s nobody else around. The skills team, I’m guessing, has to create skills and balance for all modes, not just PvP. I don’t criticize the skill team as much. What I really criticize is the BALANCE STRUCTURE this game has. Game balance is just NOT distributed properly. There should always be one balance team for each mode ready to fix any critical issues.
Balance is awful. Build diversity is awful. Ridiculous changes patch to patch completely removing builds and or classes from the meta. Condition builds still being brain dead and far too rewarding; this is on top of double dipping for offensive or defensive stats vs. power based specs.
You can pretty much roll any class right now other than possibly ele and be incredibly effective. Worst case scenario 7 out of 8 proffs are viable at the highest tier which is not bad at all. Especially when you look at a game like Overwatch, which taking the esports scene by storm, only seeing about 12 out of its 22 professions being regularly picked at the high end of play (~54%). Balance is in a pretty good place in my opinion.
I do like the game, this post was made because i fail to see the reason why the game
refuses to grow despite having a generous prize pool and an easily accessible scene. Talented gamers can pick this game up and likely be playing at the pro league level within a few months given the appropriate circumstances. Conquest is a challenging and engaging game mode when playing 5v5 with comms. Yet here we are.What is going wrong?
Yeah, 1 spec / class is viable. And that spec is either condi or rly substain!
Anet wants you to play condi so you can make mistakes over mistakes and still manage to survive.. Puke
Atm every class has atleast 2 viable specs 1 with elite trait and 1 traditional without elite. So pls dont cry about that there is no variations.
Absolutely not. Traditional specs are not viable in any way, shape or form right now. It’s elite specs or bust. Elite specs give you way more access to sustains, conditions and passive procs than core specs ever did. They give you way more room for mistakes and require less skill and effort to play compared to core specs. It’s not even close.
Also, thanks to HoT elite specs, PvP is completely overrun with condi. Every professions’ condi builds are just superior to their power builds. Condi-burst is especially OP since you get spiked like power builds PLUS the damage overtime. There’s no way you’re cleansing all that.
you do realise that as of the patch last week they started doing this to some degree, with the likelyhood of continuing to do more in the future…..
Well…good. They need to do more. Way more.
Don’t forget we get balance updates every 2-3 MONTHS. PvP balance is done at a snail’s pace. It needs be done on a regular basis.
Hey folks,
Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.
-Grouch
Theres the problem. Just split the game mode balance so pvp can be fun again.
Bingo!
The HoT devs didn’t understand the difference between powerful looking skills aesthetically and powerful skills numerically.
You said it. I’ve kept up with PvP for 4 years. Right now, the pace of the game is ratched up way too high. It’s ridiculous. There’s just too much damage, condis, sustains and spam out there all over the place thanks to these elite specs.
PvP used to be more strategic, more skillful, had a more controlled pace. Skills and traits had a cost. You had to choose between power, condi, bunker, hybrid and support. Now, elite specs give you all that in one build. Everybody now can be a condi-burst bruiser machine that holds points. That takes the skill out of it.
It’s not dead yet, but you can bet it’s on its way there! HoT powercreep dealt a cruel blow to this game mode. Elite specs are still out of control.
Well…there’s still time to fix things, I guess.
(edited by JTGuevara.9018)
Yes! I went there. I’m bringing this up once again because it just cannot be ignored any longer.
PvP needs to be balanced separately from the other modes. No ifs, ands or buts. That is if you want a thriving, growing, healthy community, which is what I assume we all want. Well, the big elephant in the room needs to be addressed. PvP balance needs to happen or else PvP will die. It’s time to address the root of the problem. Skills and professions need to be balanced for PvP.
I know what the opposing arguments from players will be. “It’s too much development overhead.” “It will take up resources.”
My response: “So what?……It NEEDS to be done.”
Actually, maybe you guys DON’T want balance. Maybe you guys LIKE your powercreeped, unbalanced HoT builds and don’t want to give them up. Seems about right.
I’m just tired of PvP. This is a cry for help and some common sense from this community to PLEASE WAKE UP so this game mode doesn’t DIE.
Hey folks,
Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.
-Grouch
Even though grouch isn’t to blame, he essentially just told you the problem regardless if you’ve realized it or not. Since PvP is not being balanced separate from the rest of the game, the most “balance” you’re going to get is from a team who’s main concern is not SPvP. There’s a reason why every major balance patch there’s an amulet gone and a new one taking it’s place, because that’s the only thing other than runes and sigils that the PvP team in particular has complete control over, it’s just the only thing they have to change that won’t effect the rest of the game. So of course that’s the only action they can take, however that doesn’t mean it’s the right move, just a desperate one.
Until this changes the overall player population will suffer, pro league will continue to suffer in both team participation, team quality, and so on. Primarily fueled by players who are not even in it for the competitive aspect or even enjoying the game as a whole, but to siphon off whatever money is left in a dying community, it’s sad really.
Countless
Exactly. This is what needs to change.
I am barely enjoying PvP right now, even with the new map.
Finding out that the PvP developers can only balance the amulets, runes , and sigils (as far as I can tell from the forum post Josh Davis made) was really eye opening to the all the limitations they face. Now, given that the classes are balanced for all game modes, making them not optimally balanced for any one mode, I think it might be a good idea to make amulets, runes, and sigils (the things the balance team can control) specific for each class (only when necessary) to counteract the inequalities in balance inherent to the classes.
For example, back when dagger/dagger celestial elementalist was king, that amulet was fine for almost all the other classes, but it was way to over powered on elementalist. So, if that amulet was just restricted or toned down for elementalist it would make that amulet’s effectiveness more equal in practice.
Also doing this to runes and sigils would only give the developers more control as to what types of builds they want to see without having to rely as much as they do on the skill balance team.
Now I know this is not a perfect solution. In a perfect world the skills would be balanced enough to where this isn’t necessary. But sadly, imbalances do exist and complaining to the PvP team about over powered skills they can do nothing about isn’t going to accomplish anything. Also, I believe that this idea could be improved with feedback from others and that my iteration is in no way set in stone. If anything, the main goal of this post is to get people involved in PvP thinking about possible solutions to improve balance with the tools that are available to the PvP team.
Link to Josh Davis’s post: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/pvp/Removing-Amulets-will-NOT-Solve-the-Problem-Merged/page/3#post6263782
Nope, sorry. This just makes the situation worse. Now, you’re not just removing amulets, you’re removing amulets from certain players. Again, tinkering or removing amulets will not solve the problem. The problem is balance not amulets. Amulets are just an addition. As a matter of fact, they might not even exist if the professions were properly balanced for PvP. Anet needs separate balance teams for all 3 game modes.
But sadly, imbalances do exist and complaining to the PvP team about over powered skills they can do nothing about isn’t going to accomplish anything.
Well….that has to change! How put getting into a position where they can do something about it? The balance problems will not go away!
Now that I played through the entirety of the content, here’s my two cents.
PvE— I’m enjoying the story, although it’s short. I wish you’d all release a couple more chapters. I love Bloodstone Fen, it’s an interesting touch with the floating islands and it’s fun to explore. The new aerial combat skills are excellent! I love just lasering mobs before I even hit the ground! I love the new fractal. The fractals changes to agony, swamp and snowblind are much welcome.
PvP— Terrible. You guys need to change your philosophy on balancing this game mode. Deleting clerics amulet was a terrible decision. That kind of abrupt change just imbalances and breaks PvP even further. Also, PvP balance needs to be for PvP only. You all need to separate skill and balance between the 3 game modes. This is so PvE, WvW and PvP guys don’t get hurt by the changes.
WvW— While I enjoy WvW more than PvP, again, I have to say, world linking doesn’t work. Cannons and Repair hammers won’t work. These are not going to correct the server matchup and population imbalance in this game. You all need to look at your scoring system. I just don’t think glicko works in this game, it’s been shown by a lot of players, that it creates more unbalanced matches.
Overall, PvE is good as always. PvP is not good lol! Definitely the weakest link as usual.
How is the PvP team not involved in balancing their own game mode!
The PvP team is a sales and marketing team comprised of brand and community managers, not designers. As you would expect in any other context, sales and marketing give feedback to, but do not have control over, design and development.
I think there’s a perfectly valid complaint that the balance team is not keeping up with the evolving demands of the game. The individual balance changes and bug fixes that have been made since the departure of John Peters have generally been really good – well targeted at real problems with appropriate fixes – but the scope of balance passes has been too limited for a 3 month release cycle.
Still, that’s an argument for funneling resources to or restructuring the balance team, not for handing design authority over to the marketing team.
I can accept that argument, but my primary point still stands.
Balance philosophy needs to change. Anet needs to properly balance PvP independent of the other game modes.
It’s the only way that PvP can possibly thrive in the long-term. Otherwise, PvP will die.
Hey folks,
Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.
What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.
Well now I see what the problem is. How could you possibly create a good balance when you only have access to tweak sigils, amulets, and runes? And that your hands are tied at the mercy of another “skills team”?
Now I can really see why people in WvW and PvP are angry at the class balance. Because neither of these teams could really balance classes according to their proper game-modes. In my opinion, you guys really need to speak to a higher up to separate skills team into their respective game-modes, and balance them properly that way.
This is critical.
Each team needs to take care of balancing their own game mode.
The problems in PvP parallel the problems in WvW. Their respective teams don’t get involved in balancing their own game mode!
Instead you have ONE balance team that has to balance for all game modes! It’s a freakin ridiculous system!
Hey folks,
Just a quick reminder: the PvP team is not responsible for profession balance. The PvP team, along with all of the other major feature teams, provides feedback to the skills team, but the PvP team itself is not directly involved in making balance changes.
What we do have control over – however – is the build panel (sigils, amulets, runes). It’s one of the knobs we can use to push gameplay in whichever direction we feel it needs to go for that particular season. For this release, we wanted to take support down a notch and increase the pace of combat.
It’s not our intent to completely remove professions from the meta – but things do fluctuate and I think we need to give the change a bit more time to see how it plays out. Elemental Bastion being bugged since Tuesday certainly has not helped the Tempest situation, but that should be resolved fairly soon and we’ll be able to properly see how ele will fare.
I know many of you fundamentally disagree with the removal of build items – and that’s fine. I understand where you’re coming from, but I hope you understand why we use this as a tool for balancing PvP specifically.
-Grouch
Still, it’s no wonder PvP is suffering. You guys have ONE skills/balance team for all game modes. Players have constantly suggested for months, years, separate balance for all game modes. How is the PvP team not involved in balancing their own game mode! Ludicrous! Why not have one balance team each for PvP, WvW and PvE?
I understand that you guys had to have your development set up this way, but you all need to CHANGE that philosophy. You guys have a ridiculous system! The PvP team HAS to get involved in game balance, not just features! Changing features/amulets without balancing pvp just breaks it even further.
(edited by JTGuevara.9018)
I dont see a problem with deleting cleric its like when ppl QQ about merc amulet.
You’ve GOT to be kidding me. Clerics has been here since the BEGINNING and NOBODY had a problem with it! It is and always has been the HoT specs, they’re out of control!
Let’s review our history. We lost Minstrels, Mercenary, Soldiers and NOW Clerics.
What’s the next amulet on the chopping block? Menders? Sage? It seems like every amulet removed is a defensive one. Do we just hate defense/support? Do we just like to spam DPS to death without a second thought? At what point, do we realize, that removing amulets will NOT solve the problem? At what point do we realize the OBVIOUS problem? Balance and HoT builds.
HoT builds simply do too much damage. The amount of conditions they pump out is absurd. With the removal of clerics, it’s even WORSE. Removing clerics did nothing but kill support builds and especially Eles. We’re killing builds, folks.
It’s not a “hot” problem… It’s that the developers do not make any serious reinvestments back to profession development. Anet obviously devotes very little resources to classes and the combat systems. The “paths of least resistance” balancing is what we get and that’s unfortunate because Anet could have one of the top fantasy mmo class and combat systems if the top made it a priority.
No, it IS a HoT problem, but yes I agree with your other point as well.
Hot was designed with increased difficulty in mind and the devs tailored elites to that content. The real issue is that CORE professions need improvement, not a “hot stuff needs a nerf”. The devs had the intention of squashing the zerker meta and putting more roles in the game, as well as filling some role and combat style gaps with each profession. It’s long process that they started not too long ago and they are obviously facing some “growing pains” judging by the profession patch notes.
I was a long time and hardcore pvper once, but gw2 broke that habit because pvp modes are messy due to the pve profession designs, pve combat rules, tons of clunky skill designs, poor combat UI, lack of playable roles, lack of development by the staff… The devs need to go back to square one and reenvision classes and combat here or it goes nowhere. Again, it’s not a “hot” problem, it’s a “the decision makers needs to care about the profession and combat experiences” problem, and devote some serious person power to make something good out of it.
I see where you’re coming from. Core builds definitely need a buff. Still, I think both buffs AND nerfs are needed. HoT builds CANNOT be this strong. It’s bad for the game. There cannot be such a gap between HoT and core builds.
(edited by JTGuevara.9018)
We were losing builds because of amulet/rune removals long before HoT came out. Anyone remember that super fun build called shout bow warrior? I had a blast with it, and it had good team support in it which is how I like to play, never been a fan of glass cannons and never will be….
True, but it wasn’t the norm. Plus, the game was more balanced back then than it is now. Now, it’s just downright freakin’ broken. HoT builds STILL rule the roost, nothing has changed.
Let’s review our history. We lost Minstrels, Mercenary, Soldiers and NOW Clerics.
What’s the next amulet on the chopping block? Menders? Sage? It seems like every amulet removed is a defensive one. Do we just hate defense/support? Do we just like to spam DPS to death without a second thought? At what point, do we realize, that removing amulets will NOT solve the problem? At what point do we realize the OBVIOUS problem? Balance and HoT builds.
HoT builds simply do too much damage. The amount of conditions they pump out is absurd. With the removal of clerics, it’s even WORSE. Removing clerics did nothing but kill support builds and especially Eles. We’re killing builds, folks.
It’s not a “hot” problem… It’s that the developers do not make any serious reinvestments back to profession development. Anet obviously devotes very little resources to classes and the combat systems. The “paths of least resistance” balancing is what we get and that’s unfortunate because Anet could have one of the top fantasy mmo class and combat systems if the top made it a priority.
No, it IS a HoT problem, but yes I agree with your other point as well.
not going to look it up, but hugh or josh or the other one relatively recently said that adding, changing, removing amulets was relatively easy change to make that can have an impact on balance.
i think thats why its done, its easy compared to class balance, but they can still the meta.
Then the GAME doesn’t change, only the amulets change. Yeah, it’s easier in the short term but players, newbies and vets alike have only so much patience before they just bolt and never come back.
I think the Cleric Amulet needed to go, they got rid of Soldier, Soldier made you yourself sustainable but with Cleric people could heal 5 door breakers faster than a trebuchet could damage them. Usually hitting them twice with it is enough, a healer could pretty much negate the trebuchet damage. Magi, well it has vitality instead of toughness and precision instead of power. I can imagine a lot of healers will pay the gold and unlock it. Would like to see it go as well as it has the same healing power as Cleric so could be used to keep enemy NPCs alive pretty much indefinitely. Either that or bring back cleric but nerf the Tempest and Druid healing abilities beyond recognition. Nothing wrong with making them able to heal so that door breakers can survive an extra hit or so from the treb but not much more than that.
That’s the thing I’m talking about! The amulet wasn’t the problem, it was the healing in STRONGHOLD. Wouldn’t it make more sense to fix STRONGHOLD than delete an amulet that was NEVER A PROBLEM in the history of this game?
I’m enjoying the story so far, it’s pretty good. I love Bloodstone Fen, it’s a fun map. The white mantle mobs are actually a solid challenge, PLEASE leave them the way they are! My only disappointment with regards to LW is that there’s only one chapter. I thought we were getting at least a couple more, maybe 3 more chapters.
Magi amulet can also be removed
Go on ANET keep cutting corners and going the easy way…
After that condition amulets should also be removed…
After that 4 stat amulets since they offer too much stat spread
After that marauder…since it offers too muck vitality and dps bonusKeep going and see where this is going
Haha I forgot about Magi!
Well, golly gee. Knight’s Amulet has a major defensive stat! (1200 toughness) Seems like anything with a major defensive stat gets the axe.
Is THAT the next one on the chopping block now? Do people not realize that removing amulets does NOT solve the problem? This is not balance, this is KILLING builds. Let’s call it for what it is.
Since the patch, I played about 10 games today. I see HoT builds are still out of control. The removal of clerics has made the HoT powercreep and spam even WORSE than before. Everyone and everything just melts left and right, dps, bunker, it doesn’t matter.
When will we learn?
-sigh- Here we go AGAIN.
Have we learned nothing from Minstrels, Mercenary, Soldiers and NOW Clerics?!
Removing amulets are NOT going to solve the problem. If you really want to balance classes, why not start from scratch and remove ALL the amulets? Yes ALL of them. Only then will we see where classes really stand in relation to one another.
I disagree with you on Lazarus, I thought Lazarus was presented well as a threat to all of Tyria. Caudecus and Lazarus also seemed to have some tension with respect to their plans. That tension could come into a play and is a good build-up in the plot, IMO.
Also, Primordius? Really? You KNOW we’re going to fight them all ANYWAY, what’s there to reveal? The dragons will all be active eventually. We know dragons feast on magic and their deaths release it de-stabilizing the world. I don’t think there’s much storytelling potential with the dragons themselves, I mean they’re forces of nature, pretty straight-forward.
I’m enjoying the story so far but…only one chapter released? A bit disappointed. I thought there would be a few more chapters released, give-or-take 3-5, given that there will be releases every 2-3 months. I did not expect just 1 chapter.
I realize there’s been pvp balance, wvw fixes, 1 new fractal, 1 new map and other in-game fixes but…you would expect more out of your primary pve content.
Still, I enjoyed it. I was just a bit disappointed and expected more, is all.
Let’s review our history. We lost Minstrels, Mercenary, Soldiers and NOW Clerics.
What’s the next amulet on the chopping block? Menders? Sage? It seems like every amulet removed is a defensive one. Do we just hate defense/support? Do we just like to spam DPS to death without a second thought? At what point, do we realize, that removing amulets will NOT solve the problem? At what point do we realize the OBVIOUS problem? Balance and HoT builds.
HoT builds simply do too much damage. The amount of conditions they pump out is absurd. With the removal of clerics, it’s even WORSE. Removing clerics did nothing but kill support builds and especially Eles. We’re killing builds, folks.
(edited by Moderator)
With cleanses, you have to build and trait for them to get benefits, and unless you’re a tempest/druid it’s STILL not enough. Cleanses can’t keep up with condis getting pumped out like clockwork.
With cleanses and resistance, there are costs and sacrifices to your build to get use out of them JUST to survive.
This is the same with mitigation to power damage. You have to build for it and most times it ends up not being enough either. The way you phrase this saying you both dont have enough cleanses sounds like a) condi should never do damage and b) you should never die to condi. Physical damage gets dropped everywhere and more often than not you wont have enough heals/dodges/other mitigation to avoid it all, especially fighting two people. So why should condi be any different? Its not extra …its an alternative damage type.
Also, conditions CANNOT be blocked. Blocks only block direct damage. Blinds can be a nuisance to condi builds, but they totally shut down power builds.
I also forgot to mention, to add to my post above for what you can do against power builds. You can add freakin’ AEGIS to that list as well lol.but conditions STILL go through them.
Again this is wrong. almost all condi attacks register a physical hit so the conditions can be applied. You can block and blind, even aegis them. I dont see the point here. If you are reffering to how they tick once applied by a hit that could have been avoided then….the damage has already been applied. Blocks and blinds dont stop damage that has already been applied. Thats like saying you get hit by a power skill for 4k but since you started blocking after being hit HP is returned to you…You have already taken the hit/damage..its just being applied over the next X seconds giving you time to do something about it.
Conditions can also be appllied through sigils, passive and active traits and runes.
and power damage cant?
Again, my point stands. Condi builds have more options than power builds. Go and visit wvw and see what I mean.
Blocks shield against direct damage. The conditions that were blocked were only because they were part of the direct damage. Conditions can still be inflicted in many other ways WITH THE BLOCK IN PLACE using on-swap sigils, transferrence, unblockable attacks and boon corruption. Blind doesn’t do much. Aegis can be corrupted and stripped.