Guild Wars 2

mordran.4750:

Why would you want to show this ? WvW rank means pretty much nothing, it´s only an indicator for how much time you spent there. You could be the worst PvP player with the highest WvW rank, it is simply irrelevant for the size of your kitten.

or you can be the worst player with any high rank – as everything in this game is cheese.
anyway, I said why I want it and I actually want it displayed in wvw.

LazyDad.2037:

I know there is zero pride in the WvW ranks as it tells you nothing about the quality of the player. Heck not even the time they spent since you can be a great wvw player but not being doing stuff to move the wvw xp bar. And that is all the ranks are.. xp. which a bunch comes from PvE in WvW

Yes, sadly since they brought EotM into the game with the same rewards like wvw – before that ranks actually did mean something, just like in pvp.
And btw: the ranks come from wxp and there’s no xp gain in wvw anymore.

Just take my number like when in a party in wvw and things would be fine. even if it’s 1k, 2k…

I said everything I had to say on this topic.
And yes, I’m still disappointed – thought you knew better.

ETA: Or at least would drop this after your first “lets nerf D/P – I’m proposing this gigantic buff for thief D/P” thread which was the exactly same thing.

I still mean it: Play an other set than D/P for a bit.

Offair.2563:

but honestly i dont give a kitten. Nor do i give a kitten about your our anyones ranks.

I thought so too, but I got in a kind of a fight yesterday when some rank 44 tried to tell me what to do and I’m honestly sick of it. I still won’t push noobs from siege if we’ve got enough time – or does it really matter to me but I don’t want to have these discussions anymore. It was fun when coming to a new server – after a while most of them understood that I know what I’m doing, but we’re a bunch of strangers every other month.

It is, no matter how you turn it – it is to make anything else but D/P obsolete.
With that you’d have no cooldown on weaponswap anymore, you’d be free to take any other set and so on – there would be absolutely no downside to take D/P anymore as then it’d have everything on it.

It would be a nice addition to the other X/P sets but they’re underused anyway due to other reasons than a missing port.

And yes, I’m disappointed.

ETA: We could delete SS though and add a X/P port – that would be fair.

How should there be anything else than stale matchups when tier after tier is being deleted?

ETA (I know) :It’s reset and we have no queue anywhere – I guess anet doesn’t know how wvw works and they put my server into a very dire situation.
Back in the day (~3 years ago) there were actually servers with a different playstyle as bigger wasn’t better back then. But anet goes the route I asked them not to go: Leave everything as it is and throw more people on it. (Yeah I’m mad because wvw is laggy like kitten nowadays cause we’re always run over by 2 100 man blobs – so much fun!)

apharma.3741:

Not really, it came down to whoever had the better rotational play usually after a very very very very long time.

Not really, you could make several mistakes on D/D cele ele, it didn’t really matter, just if the sum of your mistakes was larger than that of the other D/D cele you were in danger.
ETA: Or maybe: I guess we have the same opinion for once.

apharma.3741:

Some elite specs > other elite specs.
All elite specs > core specs.

I said it on the thie forums once: If you have 2 of the same class, same build and same skill duelling and they’re unable to kill each other, then that build leaves no opening. And that is true with most elites.

You could also ask for some SB buff, that would make more sense than pushing D/P further.

Only for pvp (ETA: and even there some thieves have switched to staff) and it’s the same for every other weaponset.
With that change D/P would be completely and grossly OP – and it already pretty much is – that’s why I said you guys should run another set for a while so you get where you are coming from.

How about: “I want #2-5 skill tied to 1” ?

Seriously guys: Go D/D in your preferred game mode for a bit, then switch back to D/P and see how good you have it. No need to ask for more buffs – I mean that, sorry.

Rotteny.8743:

Jana.6831:

All elites are overpowered, not only against vanilla classes.

If ALL elites are overpowered, how Elites are not par with each other? That don’t make sense buddy…

It does – have you ever played D/D cele ele vs D/D cele ele back in the day? the outcome was pure RNG. Same now with all elites.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Lol so you’ve seen thieves hit 20k backstabs but because you didn’t do it thieves only have mediocre burst right?

What’s wrong with you? I know someone has got screenshots of very high backstabs and I believe him but I have never been hit (except right after the June 23th 2015 patch) with numbers as high as that. I do believe him but he might be the only one who has that high backstabs.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Just like because you lost against a druid they have to be op, it can’t be that he was just a much better player than you right?

True, but if you’ve read carefully you’d seen that it was 2 vs 1 and 1 “op evade thief” against him – and that wasn’t the only druid I faced. They do have too much sustain, their pet is overpowered, they can do too much damage. All elites are overpowered, not only against vanilla classes.

Aeolus.3615:

Jana.6831, those skills are necessary for bad players to kill something and think they are decent, reason some are on low CD, it atracks players.
Add some autoatacks that can hit 3-4k on some classes.. this game is ment to be easy.

I know – they tried to teach us otherwise until last year June – nowadays combos are really out of date – we don’t need them anymore.

Jim Hunter.6821:

And here’s another qq thief

I have every profession, I like to switch things up on a regular basis to keep things fresh and to stay up to date on how to fight every class.

The bunker druid build (which I don’t play) is about as effective as the evade spam thief (or a dueling build on any class), except the thief still has a strong burst. Unlike several other professions (warrior, engi, etc.), the bunker druid scales horribly outside of 1v1’s because it is sustained damage and it relies on pet ai.

The only valid complaint in this whole thread is that they are boring to fight, but being boring doesn’t make them op.

I tried to kill a pretty good bunker druid with another guy – we had no chance. After us was an evade spam thief who also had no chance. All Elites are pretty OP but druid and Berserker are on top of that chain. Druid might even be a bit above Berserker. And it doesn’t really matter how the class scales. And btw: Every class has as least equal if not higher burst than a thief – Deceiver always has got some 20k backstabs which I have never achieved and never received, the common backstab is around 8-9k, coalescence of ruin12-16k, arc divider 13k and so on and so on.. I thought you played every class?

Jim Hunter.6821:

Funny thing is when you go from playing a ranger to pretty much any other profession you feel like the game just got put on easy mode. All of a sudden you have roughly the same sustain but 2-3 times the damage.

He’s the posterboy of what I meant above

RlyOsim.2497:

Also, as an aside, and I’m not calling out druids in particular, could people that main a class please stop with the just straight denial of broken stuff. Play 1 other class at least, and if you don’t maybe look at your response and ask ‘is this biased’? If something is overtuned in WvW it affects all of us, I get my ‘mai class is mai class’ but please, Anet clearly haven’t got a kittening clue about WvW balance so just discuss instead of straight white-knighting. We don’t want Glorious Leader to be confused.

That’s true, but unfortunately not how this game works.
Your class is OP and you know it “Nah, L2P, we’re so underpowered we really need buffs”
The community could balance the game if the devs are unable to do it but we’d face the following problems:
PvE players who think dodging is for sissies and demand more boons, pvp players who have a completely different game mode by now because of different damage coefficents and missing amulets and you have also those who will continue to claim that everything on their class that is OP is in fact a L2P issue as what has worked for now 3+ years will always work, right?!

I gave more advise but this guy rather went full PvE mode on everything “I KNOW HOW TO PLAY!!! PVE IS HARD; ALRIGHT? DON’T TELL ME THAT I NEED TO BE MORE ATTENTIVE OF MY SURROUNDINGS I NEED MORE BUFFS!”
So he rather runs a 4 signet build in PvE – because he knows better – any advise was useless from the start.

Johje Holan.4607:

In the original design of DBL, towers did have a purpose. They had the waypoints. And there were the barricades. But the waypoints in the towers instead of the keeps made people feel like the keeps didn’t have enough purpose; a high score wasn’t enough. So the waypoints moved to the keeps and now the towers feel like they don’t have a purpose.

I disagree with people who say that the towers necessarily need to be within treb range of the keeps though. I think the DBL should have a different way of making giving the towers purpose rather than just copying ABL. Suggestions I have heard include:

• Give the tower a waypoint.
• The tower grants some bonus to the nearby keep. So that it will be valuable to own the tower if you own the keep, but it will also be valuable to take it if you want to attack the keep.

I’m sure there are others. And I think on the next round of changes Anet should implement something.

The WPs lost value once their bug has been fixed and you can’t port while a keep is being attacked anymore. They held a much higher value before.
The reason why WPs in the towers was a problem: Anet didn’t tell us what they wanted the DBLs to be like – tiny EBs in which all 3 servers are presented. We were too used to having the WPs in the keeps and it does make more sense as it makes the map smaller for whoever is holding a/the WPs.

I don’t know if a passive buff would be enough, maybe imminent danger is better. But actually I’d like a lot of what has been changed even on the vanilla maps to be changed back, like the most recent changes to the walls of WC – don’t dumb that mode down – it already has become pretty shallow as no one knows how to place and use siege anymore as all veterans are scratching their heads what anet did to their gamemode.

TheGrimm.5624:

This was very well said.

I’m still waiting on the explanation why the DBL is strategical after all though.

Nefarius.9702:

If you claim to prevent any ingoing cc by perfect doding ever I personally find that highly doubtful.. but then again.. maybe you’re just too l33t.

Guess I am as I’m doing all of the HoT maps on a vanilla thief (did the story solo (except the last which you can’t do alone anyway) if it’s of any worth – I usually fall asleep during personal story).
Maybe try to be a bit more humble and take advise?

ETA: If being stunned is that big of a problem to you, try acrobatics with hard to catch and instant reflexes.

Nefarius.9702:

Jana.6831:

Question is: Who is stunning you that often (in PvE).
Maybe time your dodges a bit better? =)

Counterquestion: Have you played the HoT expansion? =)

Question is: Who is stunning you that often (in PvE).
Maybe time your dodges a bit better? =)

Sarrs: The point is I can cap and hold camps and objectives on my own on the vanilla maps – it’s very hard to do that on the DBLs because the map is full of obstacles, the objectives are too big and so on. It’s okay if you think otherwise but well, I won’t change my opinion on that. I’m mainly a solo roamer since I started playing wvw 3 years ago.

Rashagar.8349:

You missed it then hehe, speed reading has it’s costs.

As to your 2nd paragraph, we may be using different definitions of “strategy”. Because strategy is used in both border maps. It’s just that the effective strategies for alpine are more widely understood. If you can’t see a strategy for desert it doesn’t mean one doesn’t exist =P

Then enlighten me, I’m always eager to learn – what strategy is there on the DBL?

Sarrs.4831:

If you have enemies, solo roaming is a pain on any WvW map. This is high school level logic.

It isn’t because I’m able to move faster on the vanilla maps, the DBL has got too many obstacles – the spawn alone is placed unfortunate as is NC – I can’t just run to NC to save it or to get some supply, it’s a journey. It’s better to be 2+ so you can either be rezzed if you died or your ally can rush to that camp to save it.

But alas, I’m a veteran with highschool logic.

Rashagar.8349:

You equated “I like having multiple coordinated small groups being capable of outmaneuvering a blob” with “I want a 5v5 pvp map”, where it would be literally impossible on a 5v5 pvp map to have more than two tiny groups vs one slightly larger group. So no, they’re not the same.

Has never been said in that way or I missed it – and it’s pretty hard to be muliple groups of 15 on the DBL as every server has got 1 spawn – depending on what keeps they hold. So at some point they might still turn into a blob.

Rashagar.8349:

“DBL is not a strategic map”. If by that you mean that the strategies that are most optimal on alpine aren’t most optimal on desert then we agree, but you seem to be saying that the strategies that are most optimal on desert aren’t strategies and don’t belong in wvw as an equally valid play style, which is where I disagree. Strongly.

Apologies if this still isn’t as clear as I would have liked, it’s the first thing in the morning here.

I explained why the vanilla maps are strategical and why this is good.
In short: You’re forced to act if briar, lake, the two northern towers are held by the enemies. The enemy uses strategy, you use strategy – it doesn’t matter what you hold on the DBL because the objectives don’t interact with each other.
We could make this a huge discussion about the pros and cons of each map but that has already been done for a year.
The ABL isn’t perfect, EB isn’t perfect but every small change goes further away from what makes this maps great: strategy.

Good Morning then =)

Using uncommon words doesn’t make you smarter or more mature
I never said that map should be deleted, I just think it’s unfair to have only 1 DBL as the server who’s it assigned to either has an advantage or disadvantage. I also said it’s an unsuitable wvw map for the wvw we have.
No one ever said the DBLs should be deleted – try to get that into your head, ok? =)

If you have been able to solo flip a whole BL then there wasn’t a single enemy around. You can solo everything on the vanilla maps as well – In fact I soloed everything there and duo-loed all keeps including SM. If you have enemies then solo roaming is a pain on the DBL.

Sarrs.4831:

Removing them from active play or sending them to EotM is practically the same thing as deleting them.

No – You have a weird logic, really – just to be right? See I made plum jam the other day and the season is nearly over, so there won’t be any more plums for this year but they’re not deleted, they will come again next year.

Sarrs.4831:

I’ve explained repeatedly the difference between personal preference and objective criteria. It didn’t work.

You didn’t and I didn’t know that I should explain to you: You can do more solo on EB than you can do on the DBL. You can flip: 6 camps, kill the ogres, dredge and hyleks or get them as allies – they have more use than anything on the DBL. Is that objective enough? (I really thought you realized this yourself and I didn’t need to explain it once more).

Sarrs.4831:

I do appreciate the irony in you saying that adults don’t insult people, and immediately turning around and insulting people, though.

I told you that repeating nothing else than “you’re joking, you’re not allowed to have an opinion” while not explaining how you came to that conclusion is childish, yes.

Sarrs.4831:

No, there’s a point. You’re just missing it.
I don’t like EBG. I’m allowed to dislike EBG. You’re allowed to dislike DBL. Everyone’s allowed to like or dislike whatever they please. That’s personal preference. There are no points to be made here.
The point is personal preference is not grounds for asking for a map to be removed.

You are asking to keep the DBLs because of your personal preference.

ETA: You can solo roam, small scale, zerg, blob on the vanilla maps – it’s pretty hard to do anything but 3-15 on the DBL. So a huge part of the wvw players are excluded from that map. That is my point which I repeated multiple times. So basically one map is wasted and only a few can make use of it. That was intended but it shouldn’t be, especially not if anets goal seems to be to cramp as many people as possible onto “one” server.

Sarrs.4831:

I’ve already said that I don’t like EBG yet I wouldn’t demand its deletion.

Where did I demand the DBLs to be gone forever? Hint: I didn’t.

Sarrs.4831:

Sulk as much as you like, I’m not the one who turned “DBL has more to do for small groups” into “you just want a 5v5 map”.

Adults usually explain things and don’t just insult – so in case you discover how to discuss things – otherwise all we’re doing is filling the internet with more junk.

ETA: And btw: You listed all the stuff solo roamers can do on the DBL and said yourself that it’s not much different to what solo roamers can do on EB, the map you hate – so I assumed that you realized yourself that you had no point.

Sarrs.4831:

Why are you wrong? Because you’re conflating personal preference for what you like to do in WvW with objective criteria for what makes a WvW map.

And you don’t? And no one on the forums does? And that isn’t the purpose of forums?

Sarrs.4831:

Why are you joking? I don’t know. I’m asking because you’ve made a simply outlandish statement which I can’t see any other explanation for.

*facepalm

Have fun

I think I’m going full Azukas: Don’t give them ideas. The initative system is a problem, yes but any change into the direction you guys suggest would be another gigantic nerf – and it would again hurt any other set than D/P the most.

Sarrs.4831:

Jana.6831:

Me: “You seem to want a pvp map”

That isn’t the same?

Are you joking?

Then tell me why I would be joking – otherwise you can just continue this endlessly and tell me that I’m wrong but not why. So?

Jugglemonkey.8741:

Also, the number of thieves I’ve killed with mug > pistol whip as they’ve stood in black powder trying to stealth is just silly >:D

For me: Steal without mug but SoH and autoattack.

I know it’s useless but:

Sarrs: “I like the DBLs more because they prefer smaller group play”

Which is true and which is one reason why it’s unsuitable for wvw as we have it

Me: “You seem to want a pvp map”

That isn’t the same?

Malediktus.3740:

I am not using my accounts to spy on other servers and activity on deso was fine for the last 2 months where it was linked with RoS. now it is dieing again

Then maybe you should give RoS a try?
And well if you have acounts on every server you won’t need gold to transfer, so you don’t need to sell significant information to the enemy.
Other than that: PvE has got plenty enemies 24/7, wvw never had and never will have.

RodOfDeath.5247:

Actually………..I was thinking of trying an EU server because I have a friend who roams a lot on something called Vabbi? Fabbi? I don’t know some server but he lives in US and wanted to try a EU server out and loves it so far.

Who is a good T3-4 friendly server in EU? I’m use to being outnumbered

Vabbi is currently linked with GH – it’s a bit hard to make out who is who but they seem to be really friendly. Don’t know if it matters too much which EU server you try but keep in mind that most of us are currently rather mad because of anets interference into our communities – so there will be bickering here and there, no matter where you go.

Jayne.9251:

RodOfDeath.5247:

Jana.6831:

RodOfDeath.5247:

Ginger girls are hot

Welp, time to take one for the team. Meet me at N camp round 8 pm.

I’m sorry, but I love you a little bit for this. Was reading along and reading along and then saw this and burst out laughing

He’s in NA Jana, he was making a funny ;p

Yeah so? We can still meet up, can’t we? I was helping friends with map completion while they were in NA and I EU and while I was in NA and they EU. That really works

(Yeah, it won’t work for wvw but if PvE has got a north camp anywhere it could)

Yes – I started as a keyboard turner and clicker – I couldn’t really handle shortbow so my only option to do AoE damage was death blossom. If you can pull that off you can also pull off signet of malice.

In some fractals you can’t use dagger mainhand as poison buffs the enemies – so think of some other options to do damage. My thief has got all weapons thief can use on him and I’m using them, even though I’m a D/D thief.

ETA: Try withdraw for some time though and SB or staff as your AoE damage.
And: Autoattack depends on who you’re fighting. Death blossom and dancing dagger hit 3, AA 2. In dungeons/fractals/against bosses you should still try to CnD, BS, AA, CnD and so on.

Not really what I was getting at. I didn’t care about group utilities back in the day because back then this game was still “everybody is equal in what they’re doing” (of course guards were better as they had aegis but every other class was self sufficient)

I have to think myself because I’m playing thief for nearly 3 years now and a lot has changed since I started. But I think it’s pretty impossible to really learn thief and the ICD would’ve been something that would’ve alienated me because it just feels wrong and it’s dangerous even in PvE.

Malediktus.3740:

I am preparing to bandwagon away already, I am sure as hell not staying on a tier 3 server. Anything but tier 1 is not of interest to me
One of my 30 accounts (Malediktus.9250).

Yeah well, there’s 15 EU servers and 12 NA servers – you have 30 accounts yet transfer every week in the quest to find a server that has queues on every map…
Nuff said.

RodOfDeath.5247:

Welp, time to take one for the team. Meet me at N camp round 8 pm.

Sorry was in PvE tonight. If you’re on gunnars or on one of the enemy servers you will meet me eventually =)

PvE open, dungeons, raids, fractals:
1) Always D/D – offhand pistol is a waste und less it is against trashmobs but then you should rather use S/P.
2) If you’re running decent crit, heartseeker after 50%.
3) Running signets usually isn’t the best idea, especially in pve. Use Shadowstep, withdraw, roll for initative. You can also use bandits defense but try these 3. If you want extra power use food instead. And Signet of Malice is rather hard to pull off – it’s a bit stupid that that’s the first heal when creating a thief.
4) Depends on your playstyle. Both are good and you should have an AoE weapon (shortbow or staff) as a second set.

Another tipp: Watch thief videos – even if that’s pvp/wvw – you see what skills they use and get an idea how to play thief even if it’s against npcs. the D/D power videos are a few years old though but still valid for PvE.

Maybe an interesting question:

If you were a beginner: would you roll a thief?

Rashagar.8349:

Really? I don’t see where else you could be getting that impression but… really?

Even if these two quotes were somehow saying the same thing, and that’s quite a massive if, there should be room in wvw for multiple playstyles. Maps that favour alternate playstyles is a good thing. Leads to player retention.

You seem to be a bit confused. Sarrs and I are different people so yes the quotes were saying the same thing – really. I wasn’t in the mood to answer to everything he wrote and that’s why I shortened it to that sentence you quoted of me. Yes a wvw map should hold stuff for solo roamers, havoc, zergs, blobs because that is what wvw is and the vanilla maps fit these roles perfectly fine – although it’s getting harder and harder since last June/Hot. But surprise – we’ve discussed all of this lengthy.

What I know of your build: You’re wasting potential. DrD isn’t helping you, unless you’re using physical utility skills, SA is wasted – you’d really be better off with either DA,SA,T or DA, T, DrD – but alas, I’m no condi player.

Jeknar.6184:

Jana.6831:

although it’s pretty hard to tell what anybody does in a zerg

111111111111111111111111

Most probably do – my rotation would be 1114444068444112
In emergencies also 33v58

Aeolus.3615:

Jana.6831:

Aeolus.3615:

Actually warrior is the strongest class overall.

I know – I’m usually a thief in a blob, that’s where I’m coming from
And as a warrior I usually get party boons (which I don’t get as a thief because everybody thinks I’m a backliner).

Thief role should be the ninja guy have the fun on killing the downed guys or quick killing some one who just get back up.

Issue, all those roles that ranger and thief would do pretty well.. we dont need much of those , all we need is necros and eles for that spam.

Anet wanted to make the game so easy that game at the momment turned to be very uinpleasent to play…

I don’t think anyone would want to miss me – although it’s pretty hard to tell what anybody does in a zerg – I’m doing quite a lot and wouldn’t be more useful on another class.
Scrap your “xy role should be” pls =)

I’m on EU. You don’t need to show me but I’m curious if I can make a better buidl that’s why I was asking for your second set. but I’d actually need the whole build I guess.
One thing I don’t get though: why aren’t you using D/D as a second set if you’re getting heal on evades and say your damage comes from bleeding?

SP needs to be scrapped, just like VS baseline – people don’t stay in SR – how should I heal them? They don’t stay close to me and often can’t because I’m a lot more mobile and have to evade more than them – party boons that have a range are useless with thief.

Aeolus.3615:

Actually warrior is the strongest class overall.

I know – I’m usually a thief in a blob, that’s where I’m coming from
And as a warrior I usually get party boons (which I don’t get as a thief because everybody thinks I’m a backliner).

anduriell.6280:

yeh that usually happens when one of the players get tired with the rotation, which happens a lot to main warriors.

Short concentration span is a problem with the tanky builds.

Maybe I should give warrior another shot, every time I used him in zergs I was like “alone inbetween 15 enemies how on earth did I survive that and why is everybody running away?” – the stuff that heroes are made of.