Guild Wars 2

Xenesis.6389:

Would be nice that servers are balanced to have a good chance against each other (out of tiers), but that’s not the current method they are using. For NA they balance servers according to the tier they are in, in other words tier 4 servers might be balanced to have populations around 500 players, in tier 3 population are balanced around 800 players, etc. So if a server jumps into a tier it doesn’t belong in they will get do really well if they went down, or get clubbered if they went up.

Did they officially say so somewhere? Just because that makes no sense, but maybe it makes sense in their minds, I don’t know – but facing the same opponents over and over is usually beyond boring.

Xenesis.6389:

EU I would guess they balance according to language first then populations while trying to maintain their tier rankings. I think the increase in variance has really screwed with the match making in EU though. I’m not sure why the tier one servers are receiving links unlike the NA counterparts which have had their links removed since the first set. But you EU players would know about this than me as I only casual glance the EU stuff.

Because EU never had locked tiers, so no idea what metrics they use to balance links but they obviously forgot that tiers aren’t locked and that skill and community still is a factor.

Xenesis.6389:

Like for NA, would folding t4 into t3 servers give them enough players to be competitive with t2 or even t1 these days?1

Some players won’t like that which is obvious by the complaints in here, but you can’t have it both ways, ask for lower pop server and then complain when you get matched with a higher pop one, still a big separating in population by tiers.

I have no idea about NA nowadays – I know it’s easier and harder to balance NA. Easier because all servers are “English”, harder because they have more time zones because players from all around the world are usually on NA servers.
And I think the complaints are like usual: some people complain about too few people, others complain about too many, it’s no the same persons who complain about both.

I think EU was pretty fine before, even before the links even started, and now it’s a mess and that should’ve been obvious, so I have no idea why anet did it.

NuhDah.9812:

Actually I saw some S/D (probably combined with D/P) and some Staff/Sb plays that were pretty good in both WvW and PvP. Also some variations on P/P with another set pretty viable and did their job if used the right way. So it’s not only D/P and D/D condi. most of the sets are pretty much used.

I saw someone with only D mainhand once.

One day you might get the point, don’t use my name in any of your posts until then, ok?

Xenesis.6389:

And there are servers who have had to suffer longer. The problem isn’t FSP which is what the majority of the complaining seems to be, it’s the glicko variance that allowed you all to roll into bad matchup 3 weeks in a row. Unless you wanna ask anet to manually move FSP to the t1 match, seems that could be a thing these days.

Then why are servers even linked? Shouldn’t it be that the linkings balance populations thus Glicko wouldn’t matter that much anymore as all servers would have a good chance against each other?
What anet did with the current linking was reverting back to what we had before the linkings.
But you’re right, the problem isn’t FSP, the problem is anet
And if we have that vastly different populations again, then we could go back to having 9 tiers as well.

CrimsonNeonite.1048:

Pretty sure FSP with one linked server would win a MU with those french servers, they don’t seem to have the population to compete against Piken+bt, then again part of SFR is on Piken now.

I was just with a level 60 in wvw. My gear is level 50, I have half the traits as I traited for pve and not wvw. We were 20 vs 40 with me as the perfect rally bot. Our commander ragequit mid fight. Did we win? Yes (I didn’t die). It’s not always quantity although it helps and that’s something anet obviously didn’t know when doing the current linking, although I don’t get why they took away the linkings of those who have been linked in the past or gave them the weakest links (former last 6 servers) and the newly dissolved servers (RoF, Dza and AR) to servers who could make it on their own before – these links are not just to counter the french megablob servers.
Would be really great if we could at least for EU have at least 6, better 7 tiers again, permanently link the smaller servers with each other, balance combat with focus on “skill matters” and then leave the servers alone.
Haven’t really figured out the new system yet (medals), so no idea if that might become a problem in the future or if it’s better than the glicko based MUs.

We already had that before anet interfered into population sizes. So what you want now is what we had, just that we will have the always same MUs as anet would lock the tiers. And actually you guys on NA also had that already.

And I wasn’t even in this thread or forum (for quite a while)..

Can you play anything else than D/P and D/D condi spam in pvp? Would it make sense to play anything else in wvw?

No? then why?

I could tell you, because I’m playing against D/P and I know how ridiculously strong they are. But not only SS is strong, also BP which with prepardness lets D/P thieves stealth for a very long time. And since they are free to chose any traits they want to because their set doesn’t need traits, they can have the best of all of it.
So when people are complaining about “perma stealth thieves” thieves as a whole get punished while D/P still has at least twice the amount of stealth duration at hand.

And honestly: There’s one thing I really hate and that’s stupidity. You can’t claim that I was complaining without explaining why and I (and others) did that in detail, so

Cynz.9437:

Sry, i don’t have Jana’s syndrome “If i can’t enjoy my build then whole class should be deleted and nobody else shall have fun” so it really bothers me when someone keeps bringing up d/p as some kind of source of evil.

Is kind of insulting because you obviously didn’t read any of what I wrote.
But instead did the very thing you accuse me of: don’t use any logic but just plainly defend your set.

ETA: And if you report me for this again, I’ll report your previous post as it was completely unneccessary to call me out. I know how this works.

The complaints are always to be seen from what “set/build” they’re coming from, the rift between thieves is pretty huge – I bet a SA, DrD, T D/P thief can outsustain quite a lot of enemies, so they shouldn’t complain about being tracked in stealth. Every other thief might have a point.

We really need to adopt several devs ;)

TroLLu.7364:

And that Tier 4 matchups wont happen if the victory points bug didn’t exist. It’s 200k glicko difference between deso and drakkar.

Since I kind of gave up for a moment when they deleted tier 6: What exactly is bugged, isn’t that supposed to be? Servers with similar warpoints are paired?

Dawdler.8521:

Your argument does not agree with your disagreement.

For you, because you think ranks still matter but they shouldn’t if the linkings were good as every server should have the same strength – we now have the situation like it was before the linking. The MUs are still being made by the glicko system, if we now also have to have this manually done then we can just delete wvw altogether as it would be the same opponents against each other for eternity. And one of the good things on EU was that we had different enemy servers nearly every week, before they started to delete tiers.

ETA: Oh and btw: Tier 4 MU is rank 9, 6 and 14 against each other. Shouldn’t be even close according to your theory.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

I like ts, ts gets funny at night weekends when people get drunk/high. Also we both play thief so it isn’t really required for us but when I play front line I will always make an effort to use ts in open raids.

I should’ve recorded more fights of Flex and I together. I only have some hours of very boring fights, some fights in which I played really bad and one very grainy video of a good example how we “worked together” and well, lately there was only blobs which allowed no real strategy, it was more or less just trying to stay alive and slay as many as possible.

I can see what’s up without being on TS and TS is distracting me from that “instinct”.

And don’t forget that I’m German and that Germans can’t do anything without being on TS, no dungeons, no fractals, no pvp, no wvw, no map completion – I have been pestered to be there for years.

Rink.6108:

The linkings are mostly good.

I disagree: Just look at millenium, the only MU that looks halfway balanced is 4th tier – 2 servers without links against a lower ranked server with a very small server (MS). In every other MU you can already see who will be the winner and imagine what the fights look like.

RodOfDeath.5247:

Just create a low level rally bot thief and zerg right next to him. He’ll love it.

Problem with this: All who hit him rally – wouldn’t be many for a low level rally bot thief.

ETA: Then again I was today focussed by ~10 viz who all fired at once – woohoo that was fun.

The point of the linking is that we’re all labrats and anet finally sees that numbers aren’t everything in wvw and also that the Glicko system is out of date, because Deso is currently holding 128 PPT but they will still rank down 4 ranks because that’s out of their influence. On the other hand Riverside who will likely come in last, but will rank up 4 ranks.

But hey, when looking at the current EU numbers: It looks as if 3 servers have already given up for the week. That’s one tier, we can soon delete another one.

Honestly; anet this linking is destroying EU faster than anything else ever could.

Fay.2357:

Jayne.9251:

I can’t use TS, but I am constantly given scout of the week because I’m effective.

This means less than nothing. Scouting is easily the single role in WvW that VoIP adds absolutely nothing to. You scout, call it in team chat, done. There’s no need for VoIP.

VoIP becomes an enormous asset when communication is time-critical. Whether you see the scouting call now or 15 seconds from now doesn’t really matter at all. However, if you miss the commander calling a movement, 5 seconds later you’ll be dead and the rest of the Zerg will be going in a different direction.

While it’s possible to do large fights without VoIP, use of it provides an undeniable advantage in ease and rapidity of communication.

Not neccessarily: I’m a valk/zerker thief without party boons and without TS and I’m usually one of the last ones alive. I’d love to say “You’re right, one really needs TS” as I know how happy commanders are if most/all people are on TS but I know that TS isn’t all and it’s honestly distracting me and makes me worse than I am. I know there’s others who are like me. But, I also know that especially new players might avoid TS for the wrong reasons and also might become a reliability.
Haven’t read through the whole wall of text of the OP but if it’s really personal reasons why he doesn’t want to join TS, then it might help if he speaks to a commander and explains his situation – I did and the commander didn’t know until then that I’m never on TS – he accepted it in the end (I was on TS sometimes – but I’m usually attached to his butt so he sees a bit of how I’m playing).
Also, @OP – scouts are incredibly important – the balance is currently rather bad but you can even scout/roam as a Reaper, probably even as a vanilla Necro.
Good thing I’ve been dubbed “best scout NA” (loong ago) so I don’t have to compete with Jayne – I would lose anyway

My bet is on Piken – and I’d really love to know what’s going on in anets headquarters when seeing this “It’s impossible, they’ve got bigger numbers than them, why are they losing???”

Maybe Piken + Blacktide will even be double teamed which would be interesting: 2 vs 5.

ArchonWing.9480:

There’s always mute/volume adjust. Granted, if that annoying person is driving I suppose it’s not always possible and I would not follow any group I found that annoying.

I’m really better without TS, even in small groups. Until I’ve found who of the 50 is constantly talking I’ve died 10 times, then the next will think it’s a good idea to talk about pudding with their spouses who aren’t playing, then I’d have to mute the music bot and so on and so on.
Additionally I seem to be lagging for whatever reason so no one understands me anyway.

ETA: You can believe me that I see the movements of the zergs though. But I’m a special snowflake anyway. I have been allowed in any squad on my last server – on my new server I’m trying to avoid it altogether to not have the endless “join TS” discussion again – I really do understand why commanders want TS, just that I die a lot more when in TS.

Fay.2357:

Edit: As an aside, I’m at a loss as to any reasons you could have for being unable/unwilling to download, run, and listen on teamspeak short of your parents blocking VoIP programs on your router or something like that.

Personally I hate TS – usually the people with really annoying voices are talking the most and absolutely random stuff while in the midst of a fight.
I do get why commanders want everybody on TS though.

Neural.1824:

People complain about the stealth, but the regeneration is absurd.

You’re right. D/P with SA and DrD has got insane regen. (Every other thief has not though).

Dinas Dragonbane.2978:

Anet has the data from the past yes, but with skirmishes in place player behavior could change resulting in differing results.
You can’t underestimate how people’s playstyles change if something they like or dislike gets put into the game.

+1

joneirikb.7506:

All of my real life buddies left the game after 1-2 weeks after release, essentially because it wasn’t WoW. People get tired of the game, find other things, things change the game etc. Sad to hear you lost people you used to play with.

It’s all good, I’m a wvw player – there’s always friendly people around – and that is a reason a lot haven’t quit (yet).

joneirikb.7506:

But ANet specifically stated when they released the game that as with GW1, they didn’t plan on making a game to keep players playing all the time, they planned to make game people could come and go from/to. I do think they’ve done a good job at that, it is a very easy game to put aside for a few months and come back to for a few weeks etc. Unfortunately most WvW’ers love to burn themselves out :p
Obviously the world would be a better place if they fixed balance, not arguing against that. But the world would also be better with Rainbows, Unicorns and free funding to game developers so they could work on what they wanted to work on and not what their bosses tells them to prioritize.

And the best balance, is when there exist absolutely no reason to pick one over any other play-style, except for what fits you personally the best. Haven’t seen a game manage that yet.

The thing with quoting anet is that you guys get it very likely wrong.
Don’t you think any company wants to keep their customers? And get some new ones, of course, but while you could hop onto any class with nearly any set and any gear back in the day (GW2 was pretty much balanced before June 2015 – with some exceptions) and be successful in whatever game mode, you now have to have ascended, HoT, can only play elites, of that only a certain build, with a gear you have to grind and best have got 2 builds, one for PvE, one for WvW. If I were new I’d likely leave soon as the playing itself might be easy, the getting there is darn complicated.
It’s great for PvE players but the rest of this beautiful game goes unnoticed “Combos? Why should I dodge? Why would I play set x or y?” and also the PvP/WvW aspect which still are a bunch of players.

joneirikb.7506:

Or more likely, there are a bunch of devs that would love to do just that, but don’t get the “go” signal from their bosses, so thus can’t do anything about it, as it isn’t prioritized. Company gotta make money after all, you don’t make money from patching/updating the existing game (unless there is a montly sub), so I’m betting 90+% of the effort is on the new expansion.

Be glad we got people patching and fixing things at all.

~80% of my buddies left the game because there’s no balance.

Dawdler.8521:

Doesnt matter where they have been. Servers rise and fall, been like this since release. They are rank 8 and 9 fighting rank 1 in a matchup that never should have happened. This is fact.

Yeah of course, doesn’t even matter that you’ve been 9th yourselves not that long ago – the 2 servers you’re linked with and the bandwagoners are nonexistent, the ~2/3 of all maps you currently hold and hold 24/7 are not because of bigger numbers, it’s all because you outskill everybody.

I have been around when skill still mattered and I do know that it still has some value but by far not as much as it had 3 years ago and even 1 year ago. What matters most thanks to the brainless meta and stab changes are numbers.
You can carry on lying to yourself though – I guess I said everything I have to say on this matter.

Dawdler.8521:

Jana.6831:

Can we now stop calling people who are being blobbed to death stupid and nitpick about what is keep and what is garrison?

Thats not nitpicking, its stating facts. But hey if they stop blaiming double links for something that happened with single links and no links, instead acknowledging the fact that a rank 1 vs 8 vs 9 matchup is what is kittened up, I’m all for stopping to reply in this thread.

Sorry, you might believe it’s facts, but it isn’t. Both BB and Kodash have been on first place not that long ago, I know that BB got most of their PPT during nightcapping but I guess Kodash isn’t as bad as you make them out to be. Now if you look: Highest K/D ratio (of all servers) has FSP. I believe you guys are good but you’re blobbing that hard that your enemies stand absolutely no chance – and it would be great if you’d acknowledge this and not ridicule others for complaining – because what will happen if this isn’t resolved quickly is that another bunch of players will leave the game for good – and then?

Edit because of bad English

Can we now stop calling people who are being blobbed to death stupid and nitpick about what is keep and what is garrison?
I really wanted to go to FSP if I ever left my server but decided against it because (some reason and) I don’t imagine this MU to be fun for neither FSP nor their opponents.

I’m currently on Gandarra and we’re so farming viz – they will still win this MU because of PPT, but you don’t have to be afraid of blobs, only if they exceed 1,5 times your numbers it might become difficult. Now, if you turn this and have a good server being a monsterblob then you don’t stand a chance, and I guess FSP is such a case. No need to tell those who rightfully complain about it they’re wrong and need to learn to play and they don’t need to be on map x or y anyway.

Hey, all that counts in wvw is numbers, right?

2 years ago I had P/D, S/D, D/P, D/D (and offhand S/P) thief buddies. That’s ideal to me – I can play a certain class which has multiple viable weaponsets and builds.
A meta and “shaking up the meta” is stupid, in my opinion as in case a) class x with build y will be viable, case b) will be class y with build z.
Bit by bit adjustments, as suggested, would be really great though and if nothing were set in stone and if we had more frequent than 4 month balance updates at least until this game isn’t just facerolling to win anymore.
But guess that won’t happen.

The opinions on what is and what isn’t 100% stealth time differ though.

The game isn’t balanced at all. They threw the traits together and called it a day: We haven’t had any balance since. Some number crushing here and there which made some OP builds UP. If you look at what has happened to PvP since June last year: Rune and Amulett shaving or removal, because the PvP team can’t do more. It’s all still in WvW though, so the “balance” of PvP doesn’t apply to small scale WvW.
You can perfectly solo or duolo all PvE elements in WvW, it’s a different thing when it comes to fighting other players though.
I think that proper class balance would solve a lot of the problems, even if it comes down to zergs as zergs are already more balanced if even numbers than small scale with even numbers.
And still you have to take into account that wvw/servers are bugged and that some “worlds” perform better because of that – I have no evidene for that but I know I’m right. We once fought with our best commander with a full squad against an organized guild group and some pugs – we didn’t stand a chance, the whole night, we lost everything and that commander rarely loses anything. Then there were some patches and the next day we were in the same situation (our group the same, their group the same, map the same but other IP) and won everything.
Combat in this game has to be reworked from the ground up. You can however just do like everybody else: Stand in a keep, wait until a blob arrives, pew pew until your siege has been AoE-d, jump out to the back, cap some paper tower, build an AC wait until a blob arrives – rinse and repeat.

MoonT.6845:

I want to know if somebody had been on the whiskey before combining the 3 largest French servers. Both ourselves (Gandara & Underworld) and Riverside are killing them at a 2:1 ratio yet there are always more. (K/D 3 French Servers 0.6, Gandara & Underworld 1.3 and Riverside 1.2) Somebody explain to me how the server doing all the dying is the one way out in front, would love to know the population figures over the duration of the match-up.

Because of PPT.
I recently transfered to Gandara and well today was at least 2 if not more hours of 25 viz vs 25 gandara between green keep and SM – with siege. As far as I could tell viz were losing a bunch of players in an endless and useless standoff. But it seems as if everybody has given up on wvw anyway. So in the end if you look at the K/D numbers: Those with a good K/D would have a chance if they’d have even numbers, those with a 0.X one only win because of their numbers. In case of FSP and Piken they’re better and bigger, I guess. Elona has a habit of building field siege. The DBL is also a problem – those “holding it” have got problems to defend it.
Viz is still leading because much bigger is still better and they can have more havoc groups capping stuff.

I’m too tired of this endless mess to think of a quick solution.
But: Anet, here’s an idea: Make Guild Wars 1,5 – A separate game with megaservers (for PvE), gliders (I really love them), without elites and a balance and everything like it has been ~2 years ago. But even back then not everything was perfect. But it’d be much easier to go from there than to fix what we have now.

Should I try?
-Towers upgrade too slowly, they need to be reinforced much sooner. SM upgrades too fast though.
-Defensive siege needs to be able to hit close targets. Recently tried to defend NW tower on the ABL and the AC I build in Lord’s wasn’t hitting the catas under the bridge.
- Siege should do massive damage against siege, we’ve tried to get 3 rams out with a treb and a cata and 2 sup acs and had no chance – no idea what exactly is up there. The other day we were 40 against 100 who built an AC, I just walked up there, killed that guy on the AC, killed the AC and walked out of 100 enemies unharmed. I do more damage to siege than siege – weird. I’m not complaining though, just that I should’ve recorded that.
- Mortars shouldn’t stack fire condi damage that fast. They also need their range increased back to what it has been.
- Stability needs a buff.
- We need class balance – the bunker meta must go – honestly: I saw a chrono and a druid duel today for 5 mins, they hit each other hard but each just healed up to full again – GG! And I don’t care whether or not they scale badly when it comes to larger groups – wvw is not just zergs
which leads us to:
- Stop creating mass-blob servers it’s no fun for no one. Maybe for those who blob each and everything to death but the fun is soon over when they realize that the other servers just play their game and only PPT anymore.

And you really should have some devs (incognito) in wvw to see where we’re coming from. It is a strategic, competitive game mode so everything needs to be balanced. You can’t always balance population “Oh no, we’re against Germans, quick someone look if there’s a Holiday”. Then try to reward those who play smarter and for that you need class balance, zerg balance, structure balance, you can’t just throw more people onto existing problems!

ETA²: Oh and the DBL shouldn’t be a third borderland. No idea if it’s too much trouble but I guess it would be a good EotM map.
ETA³; Another huge problem is the damage that can be done from outside to the inside – it’s pretty useless to try to defend anything with siege, you better have a bloob coming over.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

perhaps he is large irl and has manboobs. i dont think he would mind

Alright – I’m leaving with a laugh ;)

Mom: I’m finally off and doing some map completion of tangled depths which I dodged the whole time.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jana.6831:

She, btw, as my name indicates

don’t care…

Having to reveal themselves to apply basi is exactly the same as our recommendation for the trap change. How can you be okay with 1 but not the other? Where is the logic in that?

Alright, I’m trying to type slowly:

If I’m using a skill that reveals me on hit then it’s in my control.
If I had a trap that is triggered on demand, it would somehow destroy the purpose of traps and would also be useless if the “perma stealthed” thief works without any traps at all.

Now?

And btw: I care if I’m called he and man (although Heman is nice) all the time – I can call you she all the time if you like.

Fat Disgrace.4275:

why are you even arguing over it lol? its a trash build thats only good for trolling and thats it.

Because I will honestly go cry in a corner if thief gets another useless nerf. I’m honestly beyond sick of it.

Jim Hunter.6821:

The build doesn’t work without at least 1 trap… thats the whole reason it was targeted for a change in this thread.
For kittens sake man try to keep up…

She, btw, as my name indicates but alas there’s also girls named James.

Probably because no one has tried it. Like I said: I haven’t met a perma stealthed thief for serveral months now.
If “Ghost thief” works without rune of the trapper it also should work without traps at all, no matter what you say – it’s not that hard to dodge over someone even if they aren’t immobilized – condi D/D does that as well.
Basilisk Venom would break stealth for 3 seconds, yes. But most “ghost thieves” I met weren’t entirely stealthed anyway.. Still not enough time to catch them as they’re using D/P.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Deflecting again smh….

Which is exactly what you are doing as you don’t get what I wrote the past 3 posts adressed to you

What do you expect: “Yes it would be great if traps had 2 buttons so I can activate them if I want them to do direct damage” which would be completely useless if this build works without traps – and I’m sure it does if it even works without rune of the trapper. So another useless nerf for thief and another “boohoo perma stealth thread” a few days afterwards.

Jim Hunter.6821:

You glanced over the thread again……

“They need the immobilize from needle trap to hold their opponents in place long enough to stack bleeds.”

So and you didn’t glace?
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Basilisk_Venom

Jim Hunter.6821:

I’m struggling to understand why you would be opposed to giving traps an overhaul to make them worthwhile outside of that 1 kittenty build?

Why are you defending bunker druids?

ETA: I hope you got my last point: I’m “defending trapper thieves” (which I don’t like as well, but I just leave them which must be very boring for them) because I don’t want my class to be nerfed because of bullkitten like this. And I’m honestly annoyed by all the incompetence when it comes to thief.

Jim Hunter.6821:

A thief could stay perma stealthed without the trap but they wouldn’t be able to kill anyone.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Uncatchable
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Basilisk_Venom
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Krait

Jim Hunter.6821:

Trapper runes aren’t needed to make a ghost thief build, removing them solves nothing.

So wouldn’t adding direct damage to traps

Jim Hunter.6821:

This completely solves the problem, it would allow them to improve on the traps since they would no longer be the cornerstone of a broken build, and it in no way “destroys thief”. If you are going to continue to argue please argue against those points and not some random thing you remember from another thread.

I already did answer to “those point” – and I only remembered caltrops from anther thread – as I also know that caltrops (Edit: Uncatchable) are the main damage source of a “ghost thief”. Or better can be – I’m pretty sure a trap less build would work.

Jim Hunter.6821:

If you bothered to read what I wrote I offered a suggestion that would work without making things too hard for you.

babazhook.6805:

Most ghost thieves trait one trap that being needle. tripwire does not do a lot, caltrops is used in most builds and is not a trap. traiting SA with some combo of SR BP and HIS and lower cooldown on deceptions will get more stealth than trapper runes.
It will still exist without trappers as it can be played without trappers.

ETA: I haven’t tried it myself, so I’m not sure it works but I guess if it does (what I assume) “ghost thief” will still be in game, no matter if it’s with or without traps.
Only problem would be to get enough dodges and still keep trickery and SA and do decent condi damage.

Neftex.7594:

jana no offense but to me it seems you spend more time on the forum than in the game and your comments reflect that

Ok, mom. Thanks for monitoring my steps – should I also live stream so you can observe me better?

Neftex.7594:

ghost thief is broken and should be somehow removed from the game, its not up to us to do it, its up to the dev team. we let them know its kittened up now its their turn to fix the kitten. thats how it should be done

We had that on page 1 of this thread – the rest was always the same.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Not randomly using the skill is your control over it…..

Yes, doing stuff randomly is pretty bad in general. Works good with the Elites but otherwise you shouldn’t do it.

Jim Hunter.6821:

It slightly raises the skill floor when using traps (which isn’t a bad thing), but if that’s too difficult for you to deal with you might suggest a secondary skill on those 2 traps that let you manually trigger them yourself. This way if you place them in an area and end up not using them you can pop them yourself and not randomly get revealed later.

I wonder how much more you guys want to raise the skill floor for thief while lowering it for all other classes.

apharma.3741:

You are wrong, thief does more DPS than anything else except elementalist on large hit box targets, while elementalist does less on regular sized targets. Source.

DPS tests in PvE raids how nice!

Jim Hunter.6821:

By that logic every thief weapon skill nullifies their base mechanics and they should always be allowed to remain in stealth.

Yes, there is a logic behind that: If I’m using stealth and backstab or any stealth related attack that reveals me it’s in my hand “I’m at 50% health, I can survive to be revealed”, if something like traps randomly reveals me without me having control over it it’s bad. If some other class has got reveal skills which also reveal me for a rather long time it’s also really bad as I have absolutely no control over that and often no means to pass the time until I can get my defensive stuff back.

UmbraNoctis.1907:

Saying that direct dmg on traps nullify a thief’s class mechanic is like saying, cd on other classes weapon skills nullify their ability to use weapon skills …

It does nullify thief’s base mechanics for the duration of reveal – better?

apharma.3741:

Personal attack time, nicely played.

No it’s just a fact and I usually try to avoid talking to you because of that.

apharma.3741:

Dodging the question. Look no-one is asking for a mechanic to be nullified, people are asking for a targeted change which will stop 1 thing, a 100% stealth uptime damage build, from being in existence.

What people don’t get that with that they would nullify a base mechanic of a class – that’s my point.

apharma.3741:

Stop with the straw man arguments, derailments, false assertions and answer the question. Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?

No, I’m going to ignore you.

anduriell.6280:

With no mechanic to deal with invisibility, it is completely unfair to condi bomb other players while remain invisible and that must be addressed. In other MMOs that could be considered an exploit.

You have mechanics: AoE – it’s useless to tryy to do that to a trapper/ghost thief though but that has got more reasons than traps. And I already listed a few of them. The main damage is coming from caltrops, btw. I have no idea if it really is possible to be entirely stealthed without rune of the trapper.
Guess if it is, perma stealthed thieves would still be in game.

anduriell.6280:

There is no other mechanic so broken in this game,

I can tell you what’s broken: “perma” blocks and passive blocks on top of that. Thieves aren’t invulnerable when in stealth. The -50 damage helps (if running SA) but that is a byproduct of anet messing SA up when they merged the traits.

anduriell.6280:

Againts invisibility there is nothing realiable. No class can trait for that

You can.

anduriell.6280:

Invisibility should be addressed and most players are already fed up with this. Not only limit the amount of time the thief can stay invisible without revealed for some seconds, but also each and every single class should have an utility or trait to counter stealth.

Thief already have a massive dps and ridiculous access to evades to not to need to focus only in stealth.

All other classes have got equal or more “DPS” than thief. A suggestion: play the game some more and then come again, ok? And also: try to play thief.

Offair.2563:

If the rune or mechanic is getting to ridicilous proportions then yes. I am trying to figure out what you trying to defend as you don’t run this particular teef build. People want to see this one gone and thats completely understandable, they are not saying to nerf teef to the ground cause its OP af.

“I#m not running this build, so it doesn’t concern me, so let’s nerf thief because of a rune” – that might be true for all D/P thieves that’s why nothing but D/P is left.

Really: If I had any trust in anet and their “balancing” – I would never respond to threads like these as I’d know that anet won’t bring all the ridiculous demands into game – but unfortunately they did and they do and that leaves me repeating the same stuff over and over while being insulted by people who are unable to read and comprehend.

Offair.2563:

Apharma got it right: “Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?”

Nothing less nothing more then that. But seems people come here to blindy defend thinking people would like to destroy the whole teef class which is not the case.

And the same to you:
“Counterquestion: Do you think classes base mechanics should be nerfed because of a rune or that any class should be able to completely destroy regen, condi remove, burst, defence of another class?”

No offense, You know I like you, Babou, but really try to get what anet is doing to all thieves because of the endless whining of people who don’t know anything about how thief works.

apharma.3741:

Hey, you started it with the remarks about me not knowing anything about thief, don’t give what you can’t take Jana.

That’s untrue – you seem to be obsessed with me which is pretty scray to be honest.
And well, it’s also annoying.

apharma.3741:

What on earth are you going on about? Caltrops aren’t traps, thought you mained thief, how do you not even know this? … Stop letting your personal feelings get in the way of what is obviously something that shouldn’t be allowed.

apharma.3741:

There is also a world of difference between popping in and out of stealth between attacks like a D/P power thief does and staying in stealth permanently while still attacking.

To put it in a very simple and easy to understand question. Do you think any class should be able to do damage to your health bar and never leave stealth?

Counterquestion: Do you think classes base mechanics should be nerfed because of a rune or that any class should be able to completely destroy regen, condi remove, burst, defence of another class?

GundamSentinel.6470:

GH here. Half my guild stopped playing showing up for raids, many previously active players on the server can’t be bothered playing anymore or want to switch server. I’m tempted to drop GW2 entirely for a couple of months.

I don’t mind losing matchups. But empty Vabbi on our side means we don’t even stand the slightest chance in any matchups. No fights, just steamrolling blobs. I’m not having fun at all.

Extra sour is that before this server linking we were slowly crawling up the ranks. Does Anet even play wvw? Do they even know what actual wvw players like and want? It has never seemed that way.

We were doing pretty good before the linking was introduced at all. Given that we survived losing 5 guilds and ~150 players in one week.
But yeah, count me to those who gave up.

Crossaber.8934:

I actually agree that all classes should have way to deal with stealth.

All melee attack should have 33% chance to reveal by successful hit with a 15 sec CD baseline to every classes. You can feel it with a swing that hit something or hit air.

Good, then no class should have blocks – they wouldn’t need it anymore anyway, right? Let alone passive blocks.