Guild Wars 2

saerni.2584:

And reduced cooldown on Shadowstep. It is a really useful ability that goes from a 50 second to 40 second cooldown with that trait. That means by the time the “Return” ability runs it will again be available in another 30 seconds. 30 seconds is not long. My build outruns other thieves because I have lower cooldowns on teleports like this.

The heal is telegraphed, but the condition clear and regaining stealth is good for a build that can apply constant ranged pressure. It means saving initiative for the next CnD which will, as you say, apply vuln and prepare another Sneak Attack. There are downsides to it, in part because the combination of effects is so useful. I’ve learned to play around those downsides so it’s not something I worry about too often.

I ran this build pre-daredevil. It was Trickery, Shadow Arts, and Deadly Arts. It did more damage that my current build but it also lacked the mobility enhancements of Daredevil. Unhindered Combatant is like an addiction. Once you have it, it’s hard to give it up. Back then the traits were ordered differently, of course, so I had some options that wouldn’t make sense now.

Steal + CnD is a waste of initiative if you gain stealth on steal. Just steal and then Sneak Attack. My damage comes from bleeds, so the CnD isn’t as valuable as you seem to think it is for me. That combo makes sense for power builds where CnD is a significant chunk of damage in its own right.

So you say CnD is useful and then that it’s useless? And CnD is another blind and vulnerability which is very useful, no matter your build. You have a point though: If you’re additionally running DrD you don’t really need heal in SA and SP is a useless trait anyway – still that is kind of my point. There’s so much wasted with SA and in my opinion you’re wasting more stuff – you really are saved by DrD not by SA.

Btw: What’s your second set?

Javi.4359:

Jana.6831:

Javi.4359:

Jana.6831:

They are OP – watched a fight druid vs berserker today – was a fun 5 minutes OP vs OP. The druid won in the end thanks to rng.

ETA. They are OP because they have too much sustain and deal too much damage (their pet does as well) – most elites have.

That wasn’t a human female druid vs a very shiny Charr berserker, by any chance?

Human female or norn druid vs a human male berserker as far as I remember.
There was a very cute male human thief who sat on the roof of vale and watched.

Aw kitten ! I was having a duel with a Berserker as a Zerk druid the other night, it ended up being close to the same story, but not so much on the ‘rng’ part for the win haha

Not even forum famous

I’m sorry.
And actually it wasn’t close; They were both half health for 2 thirds of the fight, then the Berserker slowly went down while the Druid was full health for the last third. He was a bunker though. If it’s of any solace: I couldn’t fight any of them and escaped (was trying to get vale, berserker came, bashed me, druid came bashed berserker – foodchain).

You have a very different idea of what wvw should be like – it sounds as if you want a large 5 vs 5 pvp map and that is what the DBL is.
We could argue a few days about this – I have already said everything I think about the ABLs, EB and DBLs. It’s ok if you disagree but I think you know why I don’t think the DBLs are a wvw map. And yes there’s a lot of bugs which add to that but I’m not writing bug reports, sorry. The why (because you seem to love to ask me why I’m doing things) : They decided to bring in first person view and with that kittened with the AC range and they didn’t just bring in one camera fix but a new with every minor patch. So every time you built an AC you couldn’t know where it would hit aas it was different with every new patch. Just thinking of it makes me mad. So; if any siege is wonky so be it – I’m done trying to improve anything in that regard.

ETA: At least for stuff like that they should have some kind of testserver – it doesn’t matter for most PvE players but for pvp/wvw players it’s crucial and super annoying.

Javi.4359:

Jana.6831:

They are OP – watched a fight druid vs berserker today – was a fun 5 minutes OP vs OP. The druid won in the end thanks to rng.

ETA. They are OP because they have too much sustain and deal too much damage (their pet does as well) – most elites have.

That wasn’t a human female druid vs a very shiny Charr berserker, by any chance?

Human female or norn druid vs a human male berserker as far as I remember.
There was a very cute male human thief who sat on the roof of vale and watched.

Sarrs.4831:

So you recognize that there’s a distinction between your personal preference and whether the map is objectively suited to be a WvW map or not.

No, I was referring to your “depending how hard they want to win”.

Sarrs.4831:

I personally don’t enjoy EBG at all but I do think that it is, objectively, suitable to be a WvW map. I see all these people coming and bashing on the DBL, and besides the number of people doing it, they’ve about all the weight behind them that I would have if I came in and said “delete EBG it is bad for WvW”.

Those saying the old maps are better usually have a point and explain why they’re better.
Why do you think the DBL is a better wvw map than EB or ABL?

Sarrs.4831:

Those positions are some of the strongest places to have your siege in WvW. That’s not necessarily good or bad, that’s strategic variation, but to make the assertion that DBL offenses are as easy to defeat as ABL offensives from superior locations does not seem accurate to me.

I didn’t, you spoke of hills and lake. I was referring to that.

Sarrs.4831:

You said that attacking or defending objectives is impossible because of how the map is set up. This is incorrect.

You can’t defend fire keep against catapults set up on the north end. The static siege in earthkeep tries to destroy itself, you can’t get catas out at air keep as the range of the acs doesn’t match and so on. Tell me where exactly I’m wrong.

Sarrs.4831:

This is no argument, and I mean that in the strictest terms. You haven’t provided any definition for strategic, and you haven’t provided any of the qualities that would suggest it is strategic or non-strategic.

Strategic: I want to keep green keep, therefore I have to defend Jerri and Aldons, otherwise attackers might have an easy cap.
I want to keep WC and Klov, so I better get SM or at least make sure they can’t attack these towers – that goes for every colour. I’m still not happy about red keep and SM and also not so happy about the recent changes made to the walls of WC and Jerri.

Sarrs.4831:

Are you reporting these bugs?
Why is this in quotation marks? Are they actual bugs or just map quirks?

Bad layout.

Sarrs.4831:

This simply all seems like personal preference which you’re trying to dress up with an objective argument.

Of course it is, so? Am I required to bow and nod because some PvE players want their karma train?

Edit: Secondary issue: When did you start to play wvw?

Sarrs.4831:

First point “if there’s noone to defend or attack” yes there are people there who are able to defend or attack. Whether they’re willing depends on how willing they are to win the match.

You have a point, but I ragequit when I force myself to be on the DBL – so maybe you don’t have a point and this map would be better suited as an adon for EotM.

Sarrs.4831:

-Indefensible objectives are far more prevalent on EBG and ABL because you can often protect your siege using your own objectives. Case in point, Hills trebbing SET is extremely difficult to stop with anything other than numerical superiority being used to knock down the treb.

You can have an ele getting it out or use field siege – it’s not impossible but that’s one of the reasons why the pre HoT maps are better. Not really sure what your point in this case is though.

-All DBL objectives are larger and are therefore less defensible by massed siege. The only exception to this in my experience is Fire Inner.

Same with this: What is your point?

ETA: My point is that the DBL is a) not a strategic map b) has got a lot of “bugs” which makes defending sometimes really hard/impossible. It could be used as a wvw map, although only few would be there – we’ve had that but it shouldn’t be used as a third map which is worth as much as the other 2 as that is an unbalanced MU.

I’d be fine if we had 2 months of all alpine BLs followed by 2 weeks of all DBLs or something like that.

And still I would ragequit but at least that would be fair.

Ralesk.3215:

Nothing makes me happier than seeing Alpine fans get salty because of the mere existence of Desert. You people have TWO Alpine maps to go to, yet topics like these pop up.

/facepalm

Yes, we have other maps to go to – maybe that’s one of the reasons why people complain?
It is a competitive game mode after all and if there’s no one to defend or attack or if attacking/defending is made impossible by how the map is set up…

I didn’t because I always assumed it would lead me to an example of how another game solved the server problems
No offense, really but all I know of everything you wrote on this forum is: google this and that "
Maybe I’m an exception and not to be taken seriously.

Diku.2546:

For a Better Long Term Solution to WvW – Google Search – wvg world vs globes

Your signature is highly distracting and I always think you want me to play another game which has got globes instead of worlds – just saying: it’s very hard for me to read anything you write because I always think that you’re not talking about this game because of your bold signature.

The game really became brainless. I’m dodging rather randomly myself because I’m a D/D thief and don’t always see what my enemy does, so I have to go by my gut.
The problem with the cooldown is that if I’m playing against a necro, for example, and he specced for chill, then there’s nothing smart I can do to avoid the cooldown.
So it might have made sense before HoT – in a fluid bug free game, which we don’t have. I’m basically punished twice, by my own mistakes and by the passives of the other classes. And that’s something anet should know before doing stuff like this – but they obviously didn’t.
I recently duelled a buddy of mine – he on his elites (but not bunker), me on vanilla power D/D (in wvw) – and he didn’t win a single fight. Back in the day I really sat cheering in front of the computer whenever I saw a necro dodge and I guess the same will apply to all players once this game isn’t that braindead anymore.
They will have to nerf thief evades though.
In the end best would be to just remove Hot and call it a day. But please leave me the gliders and my “vanilla” revenant – he’s pretty.

It sounds a bit random, to be honest: all we get is that you don’t like that cooldown – nearly no one does.
And you guys don’t want me to undust my offhand pistol, otherwise you wouldn’t even need to discuss who’s the best thief EU :P

Skinnii.3504:

Jayne.9251:

Belenwyn.8674:

I have angst that we end up in the same horrible situation as NA where three server are are so dominant that they almost never can fall down. I have been always quite happy that EU was different and the first 10 servers were very close.

Now we have for sure two dinos in EU: FSP and JS. VZ can maybe join the club of dinos.

In a perfect world they would have implemented and tested this in NA only, as it was mostly an NA issue, because EU was fine (and fun) prior.

Perhaps they can still consider this. EU will spread back out again if they did.

I agree. As far as I can see the only way they can fix the EU servers is to wind everything back to the week before linking and put every server back in the ranking where it was and forget the last few months ever happened.

Yeah, but the last 2 tiers were unhappy they hadn’t had enough people. That was one french server, one german and the rest are international, right? You can’t make 3 servers out of that even though RoF was/is pretty big. You could leave 1 national server, leave RoF and merge the 3 other servers. The other national server is getting free transfers to another national (or actually any) server.
It would still be a mess but better than what we have now.

So it’s cool that thieves use headshot but spamming it is uncool although you did it first and headshot means diversity.

What has this got to do with the stealth cooldown?

ETA: Blaque is right and you’re right: This was an unnecessary nerf and the devs didn’t think too much about it, just like the reveal skills.
Kudos to anet for fixing some combat bugs in the aftermath buuut they really should take combat more seriously as I bet at least a third of all GW2 players play pvp or wvw – catering only PvE players is a quick fix.
You’re right with most thieves not venting their frustration on the forums. So what happened was that a bunch more people quit this game.

saerni.2584:

Hide in Shadows yes, Last Refuge no. I use Concealed defeat because it helps Hide in Shadows. Very necessary given the larger cooldown on that heal. I don’t find SE to be necessary in most situations given the condition clear of Escapist’s Absolution.

Steal on stealth is a good way to regain stealth and get another Sneak Attack off. It also is a blind on steal (combo with CiS). CiS is great for non D/P that don’t have access to abilities that blind as consistently.

I duel all the time and this is how I win them.

Right it was that trait with that the cooldown reduction is merged – that trait has really no other benefit than the reduced cooldown on a heal with a very telegraphed animation.
You miss out on steal, CnD, Sneak attack combo and sacrifice the damage you’d do (+vulnerability) for a free stealth – which might not be that bad for a condi thief, but still.
You’re only halfway saved by DrD and by the fact that those who are left playing this game are rather bad and well that there’s few P/D thieves around.

XTR.9604:

They need to drop the gimmicks with the monuments there and copy the ruins style from Alpine for the center area.

I agree with the rest of your post but: Do we really need the ruins thingy anymore? It’s usually no struggle to get it, you just have to have 2 people who run around – no real accomplishment.
I like the buff and gaining ppk is important, I just don’t think the ruins are.

alchemyst.2165:

Yeah. Wvw is not the best place to highlight skill, as stereotypically the player skill isn’t as high.

Not anymore sadly, true.

alchemyst.2165:

In terms of montages I try to make them more enjoyable rather than a shocwcase. However, I’m wanting to start to move more towards just videos with minimal editing, and have better situations that are more interesting and just have notes/analysis of it.

All good, just that I wanted to watch the chronomancer and was “umm eehh whhyy???” A lot of people probably don’t care.

alchemyst.2165:

But thanks a ton for the feedback, it is noted!

I felt bad that I was complaining once again – glad you’re not mad but took it as the constructive feedback it was meant to be.

An example:
https://youtu.be/thGwGzQvajw?t=29s
at around 35 s and also 4:44 and the fight before – the moment he stomps is a “woohoo you deserved it!!” and it fits the music.
It took a while until I realized that he had a god-like timing, his videos look rather random at the first glimpse, but the stuff he highlighted is cool to even noobs.

Did you know that we started playing thief at the same time? And I even learned stuff from your videos back in the day – mostly combos.
No offense, I know what you can do, but this looks like facerolling against baddies – and it’s the game’s fault.

ETA: I’m still watching: There are some rather good enemies or situations in which you’re in danger but you chose to mess with the videoeffects – don’t =) I know how much fun it is to match a song to a video but there are other ways to do so – slow motion for example.

I have been on a German server for half ya year – believe me on this. If they were ok with being on an international server they’d be there and a lot are, like me, for example.
Just see it from this point: You’re German/French/Spanish, bought this game, went onto a German Server and spoke German the whole time and it worked. It then switched to megaservers and everybody spoke their language while the English speaking community demanded everybody spoke English. We still have some shy people speaking another language here and there, try German and you’ll be called “kitten” right away. No need to force more PvE onto wvw.

There is no need to force a 24/7 coverage or to pretend that all Germans get up and go to bed at the same time. We usually don’t have blobs taking our stuff at any time while we are only 3 and the other way around. It happens but it’s still soemwhat rare. So: balance the game so that bigger isn’t always better, make siege useful again, change the scoring so that nightcapping isn’t that important anymore – and call it a day – wvw is driven by the community and all these merges and stuff are destroying that.

Steelo.4597:

Shoutout to my brothers and sister at the Hold getting severely punished in hell

Appreciated!

So you’re skipping SE in favour of Hide in Shadows and Last Refuge – good to know, I’m marking you as the only one I know so far who does this.

What offensive stuff does SA have?

And btw: Go away from your x vs x situation but imagine a duel.

Kirnale.5914:

If I were anet I would:
1. Set the goal limit to the t1 servers. They are not t1 for nothing. They have both manpower and skill.

*Raises one eyebrow and thinking of Deso
Yeah well, that was half a year ago..

Kirnale.5914:

2. Thus, leaving all t1 server unlinked.

With that I agree – the first 2 tiers don’t need a linking.

Kirnale.5914:

4. Asking the “german, french and spanish” servers if they want to be linked with an english one through a poll. You have been doing a lot of polls, why not asking if the players wanted it or not ? Pretty sure most of us understands english.

There’s a lot of older players on the German servers – they won’t understand too much and well German servers are a special topic. Try to speak German on a megaserver but take an umbrella as some kittenstorm will come.

Kirnale.5914:

5. Time zone. An international server has the advantage that their time zone is more spread out, so the night is more covered than one nation(correct word?). By linking one national with international servers you can get it even out better. You can try putting up serveral german servers together, but that doesn’t mean they got a stronger night raid, so the result with be a loss despite having the same manpower during the day.

You have no idea of EU.
See it’s 6 am in Germany and I’m awake, just like a lot of Germans who take their rangers out and do some Karma train.
Just because there’s international servers doesn’t mean we have any NA guilds.

You can’t take all of these traits together and make something useful out of it, that’s the problem. Merciful Ambush might be nice to have in some situations, but I’m usually alone – who should I rez and how does that benefit me?

A lot did return when the ABLs came back. A lot left once more when they realized that the DBLs weren’t the only problems wvw has got. The community changed and the DBLs are better suited for an EotM style wvw which wvw is turning into anyway.

ETA: And how to fix it: Anet needs to know what wvw needs and what it should be like. They need to have a vision – they can’t just let the players decide on everything.

Sarrs.4831:

Considering they aren’t server merges and they’ve explicitly stated what the intent of world linking is- to provide you with more variation in opponents and allies- this statement seems bizarre.

I’m from Gunnar’s Hold EU – we’ve always had changing matchups. It was rare that we’ve had the 2 same oppoents 2 weeks in a row. That’s because EU didn’t lock tiers.
After they started to delete tiers the matchups became more and more stale (of course) and now they deleted another tier and I can guarantee you that we will have the same opponents until the next tier is deleted.
So… … yeah.. wel… yes.. EU was pretty healthy before NA demanded a 24/7 coverage. The last 2 tiers weren’t, granted but diversity can’t happen if there’s only 3 servers left.
And since bigger is always better it doesn’t matter who exactly the facerollers are. If it’s server x merged with y or a b and c together.. doesn’t matter as long as they’ve got numbers, right?

Yesterday we had 5 for EB – for a few minutes. That was 9 PM CET

Anyway, I have been outnumbered while I was on deso as well – i have been outnumbered on every server I’ve been on. EU isn’t NA and we never cared that much about a 24/7 coverage – so all this merging and linking and deleting doesn’t make any sense, it just destroys wvw (EU) in no time.

True, I always port back into my zerg when downed “REZ MEEEE” – maybe that’s why people are now running after my downed body because they’re used to having it to do anyway.

Jeknar.6184:

How about when we get deployable cannons? We can even call it Cannons Versus Golems week.

That will likely be a “trap” again, so you have to buy it aannd carry it around and then you have to use it.. no one will do that.
If even (disabeling and) shooting at them with cannons is too much to ask for :P

They are OP – watched a fight druid vs berserker today – was a fun 5 minutes OP vs OP. The druid won in the end thanks to rng.

ETA. They are OP because they have too much sustain and deal too much damage (their pet does as well) – most elites have.

LetoII.3782:

Jim Hunter.6821:

Not every idea needs to be tried. Breaking the game mode for the sake of change isn’t going to help.

REMEMBER GOLEM WEEK

We should actually repeat that as only during that week people learned how powerful cannons are against golems – it’s constant struggle to get them onto the cannons.

I’m not too afraid for Deso – I heard that one of my former guilds just transfered there and they are a few.
I think the linking is especially bad for EU where not all servers are and can be guest servers.
And in the end Gunnars is now in the position RoF was before and well, humans aren’t npcs – they usually don’t like to be frustrated 24/7.

Really: balance classes, balance stability, merge the lower tier servers, give national servers a free transfer to a selected few servers their choice and leave wvw alone.

ETA: A buddy of mine is on one of my former servers who were turned into satelite servers with the first wave. He basically stopped playing because he missed the community. Only real reason he’s playing now is to build golems and to turn every objective my server holds into swiss cheese “Jana, come find me!!” “Jo guys, theres a single Golem at xy – kill him” Anet, really, wvw is to troll and be trolled – don’t take that from us by turning wvw into EotM.

Gibimo.2193:

anyway, buff or not, that damage is still there unless BS got nerf.
and its still gonna one shot everyone.
buff damage for BS would gives quality of life to non-oneshot builds.

I already said it: The damage in wvw is already really high – it is a bit higher (~1k) than before June 23th 2015 – our vitality hadn’t gotten any higher though, so thieves can already “one shot” each other even if they’re not running signets – it would be stupid to buff that even further. When it comes to against other classes (than Ele and thief), then maybe you have a point but even then; rather nerf their sustain than to buff BS.
When it comes to pvp that’s a different scenario.

Cynz.9437:

I remember on some stream a year or so ago they said they don’t know what to do with thief.

And as usual it would’ve been better they left it alone.

RodOfDeath.5247:

Ginger girls are hot

I would go daredevil because of the extra dodge (and heal on evade) or acro as if you’re stunned and he stomps it’s usually over – I think they’re better than SA vs tower lords.
But in the end use the build you’re the most comfortable with. S/P was rather easy (also because of the ports) but I’m too used to D/D. Easiest of course was condi and I guess it still is.

Oh and don’t forget to run around a lot and make the pillars your shields.

Do you have a source for that?

Ok, I know only the vanilla Lords.
I soloed towers as P/D condi, S/P power and D/D power. Second set is always SB. I don’t think D/P makes too much sense to solo towers as the blind only helps against trash mobs and you might accidently heartseeker anything while trying to stealth – I never tried D/P.
The most important thing is the boss mechanics – the Lord has got a rifle = smoke screen and my beloved daggerstorm. Black Powder doesn’t work on him. Also have something for when he’s stunning you – shadowstep, I use blinding powder – doesn’t blind him but he might lose target (if he’s not bugged).
The important thing is to know that he’s using projectiles. And that it’s PvE and that stealth is a lot more powerful vs mobs than vs players.

Jayne.9251:

You were next to me in Lang? Why didn’t you tell me? I woulda given you a hug

I’m just pleased our guys are doing the lemonade thing and making practical use of the situation. Seems to be working well so far … Nobody’s kvetching about map QQs.

I was, yes =) Most people don’t like gingers

We gave up for at least the week already, I guess, we don’t stand a chance. No queues for us.
It is fun, but there is no room for strategy with these masses – this matchup feels like EotM.

And those guilds are all running the DBL? Why? Because all other maps have queues? If so mission accomplished “WE NEED TO THROW MORE PEOPLE AT THE PROBLEMS” – for now at least.

ETA: Yeah, I’m mad – I want my server back how it has been but that ship has sailed long ago, one of our biggest guilds will leave us and we’re the next satelite server when EU is reduced to 4 tiers – because why not, right? MOAR PEOPLE!!

ETA²: But maybe we will circle Piken at some point and this time I’m not standing shy next to you in Lang

You’re talking about pvp, right?
Yes, the damage should be adjusted in PvP (Deceiver is the one who knows what exactly is different) but nothing should be done with the weaponskills as I usually hit a thief for ~8,5 k, a full zerker ele for 9 (in wvw) and I’m not even running signets – I’ve had 2 really interesting fights with thieves lately, I’d say they were pretty long, but actually lasted only half a minute the second maybe 2 minutes, because thief vs thief is so freaking fast. Up the BS damage and it’s true one shot.

Do you mean ABL/EB or DBL?

Maybe they’re trying to force us to play the DBL “YOU WILL LIKE IT!!!!”

Lets say: D/D is not unplayable but I have to skip a lot of classes/builds as I stand no chance. I’m well aware that my thief is the weakest it can get – but I want to play him that’s why I’m doing it and since “my” bug has been solved I’m having fun again. Minus the stealth attack cooldown which can be rather frustrating at times.

Menyus.4610:

vanilla thief is unplayable……. -.-

Yeah, someone just told me that I’m wonderful =)

Yes and ABL are strategic wheras DBL is not – no matter what you say – the strategical part of DBL is to know where to place your treb/cata so it can’t be destroyed from inside – that’s it.

And that is the point why wvw is dying – I don’t care about your other points, tbh, sorry, I just read that and thought “he’s so very wrong about his perception of wvw” and that’s why I picked that point.
Btw: The maps are equal in size.

Darlloch, that’s the point of wvw, to interact with each other and that’s why EB and ABL are great maps as they require you to be active – you think otherwise but you’re wrong. If you want to keep blue keep, you better make sure to hold bravost and langor. You don’t need to worry about all of that on the DBLs.

Jeknar.6184:

I can solo all 4 towers and I’ve duo Earth and Fire keeps. Never got anything at Air with less than 5 tho. The CC fiesta is too strong.

We duoloed air – thief and warrior – we called it quits on fire though.

I think it would be best to finally balance the professions, add some more stacks of stability, unravel the servers, merge the lower tier servers with each other and then leave the mode alone. All this “lets try this and that” is just killing everything even faster. And I know my server will be next.

Cerby.1069:

snip

Anet are killing the mode themselves – implementing anything like this would only lead to a quicker death – so you can just skip the vanilla sorry chocolate ice cream (who likes vanilla better than chocolate? you are a very weird guy!) as the store will die anyway.

I always use D/D and makes the most sense to me in PvE. I usually have SB as my second, but I guess staff is just as good for that.

Edit: Not really true, I also use S/P sometimes and P/P even – I guess the only “mode” where I use all weapons thief has got is in fractals.

Just go for it.
See, even I as a vanilly D/D thief, without food, without boons with SIGNET OF SHADOWS gasp kill stuff in wvw. Is only bad if it’s bunkers but I heard that isn’t really possible in pvp right now, so with some practice you should have a good time.