Speaking of EU: What was so wrong with what we’ve had before? Didn’t things work out? Nightcapping was a problem, yes, and T8 and 9 were dying (because the wvw mechanics are out of control) – but other than that – did we really need artificial rankings, linkings and all that stuff?
That’s a genuine question and I won’t be able to vote for that (return most of it to how it has been) in any poll.
Make WVW EOTM style,,,,, 4/6 color battle , or penalize a stacking blob server, give them a skill lag DC ,maybe this will stop the server stacking problem.
Yeah, that will happen. We just need to stretch the objectives a bit farther and make the maps bigger and then we’ll have EotM II. At some point we can also substitute players with npcs and everything will be fine in PvE ktrain lalaland.
If you sit back and think about it, this is pretty normal for anet. They have good ideas (server linking) but they usually implement those ideas horrifically (GH+Vabbi). In this case, they didn’t take into account that by linking low population servers with high population servers, people would transfer to those servers for a cheaper fee. Obviously they knew that would happen and that they’d make a fair profit from it, but apparently the population change following a re-linking wasn’t something they considered, hence why we are now faced with servers that far outnumber us even at prime time.
Couple that with the mass exodus that seems to have happened (and might still be happening, idk), well, there’s not really much point in even trying to defend things anymore. Barely anyone on gh gives a kitten about DBLs so our home border usually has hills and bay at t3 belonging to the enemy servers.
Maybe if anet introduced a limit to server transfers so that you could only transfer once per 2 server linkings, or maybe if they just paid more attention to WvW…kappa.
That was their intend: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/wuv/World-Linking-8-26-2016/page/4
“Our goal with World Linking is good matches. This doesn’t necessarily mean that worlds in tier 4 are intended to be competitive with worlds in tier 1, but ideally every world in tier 4 should be competitive with the other worlds in tier 4 and likewise every world in tier 1 should be competitive with the other worlds in tier 1. It would be nice if worlds in tier 4 were competitive with tier 1, but it’s not realistic since the distribution of players across worlds is not consistent.”
There’s 3 problems Anet should’ve taken into account.
They freshly turned a few servers into links and linked them with servers who had no links before. Of course the population on those fresh links is a bit higher. And of course those who hadn’t had links before but still were able to compete are stronger than those servers who had links the past few months.
Bandwagoners. But not us but anet have got the real numbers of people bandwagoning.
Third problem: EU. You can’t lock tiers on EU but anet just did that. And that not because of the languages but because we had always changing rankings, you can’t determine who is and who isn’t a Tier X server, but anet just decided. And with that people will either bandwagon or just leave because wvw is pointless. And all I’ve seen the past weeks is Karma train and Megablobs.
Since the lord takes so long to kill the enemy has a long time to send all his troops to SMC and still succeed to defend it because the lord will still have 50%+ health by they arrive
Know what? Back in the day we’ve had the best fights ever: “Banner the Lord!!!” “Timer Garri: 0.10 SPAAAM!”
I really wish those days back. *sigh
And I don’t mind the health of the SM Lord at all and it does scale, not that accurate though, maybe it still scales to friendly blobs as well or all enemies which in a 3 way SM fight is rather bad, but in the end it doesn’t matter that much whether or not the Lord is dead, the only important thing is to keep the ring free which is not that easy.
The polls are really the better accurate measure of overall player views.
Not really if you don’t have a choice or if the question is asked in two parts – I’m not around for every poll.
Also everybody has got access to them and not everybody plays wvw.
In theory you’re right, but the reality is differently. We’re stuck with the DBL because of above reasons (and more) – but still nearly no one likes them and they’re a huge drag down for those assignet to it. I wonder if anyone measures the impact of the DBL and if so and it’s redeemed negative if they will ever be removed.
The longest I’ve seen SM being hold in recent months was maybe 2-3 days, it’s usually until it gets T3, then its lost soon afterwards and paper for the rest of the night.
So, if you claim, that SM is being held by the same server for a whole week I’d like some proof for that claim.
“AG blob gliding towards OW” “We know, they’re above us.”
And in case you can’t get up a hill real quick and have some obstacles in front of you, you won’t be able to catch them. Sounds like something that will come.
Lets just have 1 server maps so we can have karma train 24/7.
Excuse me sir, but are you high? Whoever owns SM right now is currently farming bags because if the blob starts losing, they just hide back in, and start firing siege. Not only that, but no one even tries to take SM once it is T3 because everyone knows it is pointless. If the doors were open, actual WvW guilds could come in and fight these blobs on a more level playing field vs people who just sit on siege, press 1, and collect $200.
That’s not true. A T3 SM is a huge problem, yes, but it is for the enemy servers and the server holding it. Holding SM doesn’t automatically mean the server who currently owns it can hold it forever and “is farming bags”.
Sm upgrades a tad too fast and I’m not too happy about the red keep <-> SM interaction, but other than that you can attack SM from all towers surrounding it and it takes about two and a half minutes to run around the whole; it often takes a while until someone realizes it’s being attacked.
The problem with the lagging was partly solved when the map cap was reduced which was a problem for gvg guilds or guilds in general. Nowadays there’s no gvg guilds anymore anyway but we now have the “we need to have queues 24/7 lets throw servers together” mentality, so the map cap will likely stay as it is. Also you have the DBL problem which is half forgotten.
Long story short: SM upgrades a tad too fast, otherwise it’s fine and the problems occuring with that objective are because of the game programming/mechanics/bad descisions. We really don’t need to dumb everything down – it’s really bad as it is already and taking doors and walls out of something to ensure people can karma train easier – really?
And they’re largely empty because the fights aren’t fun because the game isn’t balanced, so players just don’t bother anymore.
On the topic of balance, I expect all negatives from ANet and nothing good to happen. My guess is they’ll probably nerf power builds (especially thief damage scaling, probably in CS, because why not) and buff defenses game-wide to intentionally slow down the pace of WvW to mirror sPvP. I don’t expect reduced power coefficients or defenses on elite specs, though, I’m anticipating further gouging to core traits and abilities since ANet’s all aboard the HoT-powercreep train.
I’ll gladly be proven wrong, but I sincerely doubt anything substantial or positive will come from this patch.
That might happen, yeah. Instead of recalculating the stuff that went wrong in June 2015, they’ll probably chose the lazy approach.
I’m curious but don’t expect anything but a nerf to my thief. I mean power D/D, come on! I’m probably the last one anyway, so who cares?!
You guys know I’m a grinch – and usually a dead grinch when I once again forgot that one can’t glide in wvw.
Anyway: The problems wvw has got are to a good part because of some stuff a few wanted, like first person view (who uses it?), action camera (did anyone really ask for this?) – siege doesn’t really work since. Also range increase because of some poor rangers and eles which rendered defensive siege useless. Now add gliders because 2 people asked (you and me) and we face another thing that’s killing wvw.
WOOO HOOO HOOO I want gliders in wvw – lets go out with a bang.
The only toxic on GH was buttered but hes on AG now so they can enjoy his troll messages.
He followed Purr, not bad, not bad. And yes he was pretty mean but unfortunately also right in a lot of cases.
Anyway; anet: It’s not just that you killed Gunnars with the current linking, also the servers are a buggy mess – can you please fix that as I have honestly no idea what you want me for: You kill my thief, you kill my server, you tinker around with combat rules and people really think that they won because of their skill but it’s because the servers are lagging differently.
And I’m actually not sure if I want to hear a “we’re aware of this problem and working on it” or better nothing at all (like now) because people would freak out once they really realize this. A lot of the K/D ratios show which server is lagging bad and which good in current MUs.
I swear if I ever hear a ranger or druid complain…
Nearly every class scales rather badly in zergs, so what?
And the moment my class isn’t as useless as it is now against bunker druids I will personally dedicate my life to kill each and every druid I see.
I’m not sure what’s the most OP class right now, but I guess it’s druid. Berserker is pretty bad alone – 4 people to kill one druid, 6 people letting 2 berserker run free cause we’re unable to kill them. GG, anet, GG. (yes, I just rage quit wvw) (because of a druid).
And if I ever decide to become a commander I will kick each and every druid and ranger out of my squad. Because I can’t understand how people can have fun with these faceroll builds – “Oh i’m such a pro, killed them with my faceroll build!”.
Even if they did try to make DBL a bit more 3-way like than Alpine was, it was still nowhere near what EBG is/was. And there was still 1 map designated for each server, with a clear home advantage in north. It is still designed to be a “Borderland” not a “Battleground”.
No, it wasn’t, it was just like EBG, the server it was assigned to had no advantage. In your mind 4 EBGs might work out – I don’t think it will and there are a lot of people who only play on their BL /BLs in general. So I guess you’re pretty alone with your idea how wvw should be like.
Just to clarify that what I’m talking about is not DBL.
That’s great, but the DBL was set up as tiny EBLs when they launched – just that people didn’t get it and anet didn’t tell us. The WPs south, then keeps were only usable by enemy forces.
DBL is built around the same principle as ABL, that each server has 1 borderland map to call home, and that it favors that side dominating the entire map keeping it single color. And having the south objects flip a bit more often.
They tried to change thing sup somewhat with the waypoint changes, but it would still be a far cry away from working like a true 3 way map like EBG.
No, it would’ve been a 3 way ebg, just that we didn’t have enough people to fill 4 maps. And that no one got what anet wanted to do with the DBL – in the end it’s better like it used to be and like it is now, isn’kitten The forces that are strong enough can afford to have a keep in an enemy BL.
I think that a lot of the things going backwards, might no longer work because the players and times has changed. But there is a whole lot of things changed, so I might think of different things than you do. People certainly can’t agree on where they want to roll builds etc back to.
The thing is: wvw is turning more and more into EotM and we already have that. I guess people would still be able to learn tactics if that made sense again, otherwise we could just delete wvw and spare us the hassle.
I personally am of the opinion that a single colored map is a boring map, so I’d like to see all maps (alpine/desert) remade into the EBG style with 3 roughly equal sides. And I would love to see one of them, or a new map made as a dedicated “home map” for all 3 servers, with defensive advantages, benefits for controlling things etc. Basically making keeping your side matter. I think that would be a more fun “home” system than the current “keep the map in single color”.
We had that, it didn’t work (DBL).
Also what a lot of people (and anet) should realize in my opinion: Things were rather well back in the day. Instead of trying something new every other week, we should go backwards in a lot of cases. Unfortunately the situation is that dire for wvw that it’s a ton of problems which can’t be solved at once (unless you roll back the game, at least for wvw, to before June 23th 2015).
There’s plenty of vids where 20 man guilds fought and won against 60 man guild groups.
Oh you mean a 20 man “gvg” “zergbusting” guild that had all their traits and gear and combos synergized and on ts, to take out 60 pugs that had hodge podge gear and trait choices and not all on ts?
Eotm is still around you know.
About 3 years ago we did that as pugs without TS. We always were up against zergs/blobs at least twice our size. After the ferocity patch we had problems with condis although the condis could be bad before, if played well and organized. It was possible and still is but it’s still more luck than skill if it happens.
Please don’t pretend that skill never mattered in wvw, otherwise anet really think that all they need to do is just throw more people into everything ( = killing wvw).
I’m covered on these things. If I had the gold to craft legendary weapons, I might do that. But WvW simply does not provide that kind of cash.
I bet there’s enough people who only play PvE who complain about too little loot as well and actually I don’t really get it because I have no problems making gold, no matter what game mode I’m playing. When wvw wasn’t that screwed up I only played wvw as a scout and solo roamer (who upgraded quite a lot) – and was still the richest of my friends. You guys are doing something wrong. One of the wrong things is to hoard tomes of knowledge and not using up spirit shards. You make about 16-17 gold profit from one stack of sup siege if you buy everything else and there’s a lot more uses for spirit shards than that.
I do agree with Offair though – using the mystic forge can be very annoying.
Then enlighten me, oh great maker of gold with spirit shards. Because to me they are just a nigh useless currency that I’m sitting atop of thousands.
./wiki any T6 mat and how to make them
./wiki any (vanilla) legendary and how to make them (but most people hate map completion)
./ wiki superior siege blueprints
I’m in need of tomes actually – I just crafted a bunch of legendaries and sold them. And also my favourite commander gets a few stacks of sup siege here and there. I rather have tomes than siege actually, at least tomes don’t have to use up inventory space, that’s a plus.
You can make gold with spiritshards, not only by crafting sup siege and legendaries, also by upgrading mats.
My bet is on Piken, sorry FSP (PS has got Jayne).
Also, after this matchup, I’d really love to hear what the devs are planning for the future.
That is without snark, btw.
Bet on Piken
… Wuh?
Please don’t say you mean bandwagon.
*cries.
No, I bet you guys win that MU – I’m on Gandara, you guys are safe from me, while Gandara has won a rallybot.
ETA: And maybe next month I will be somewhere else – I could pay NA a visit again.
Standing in BP allows the thief to get a “free” shot on you with HS, Bound or Vault and the thief will still stealth. If that shot hits with any kind of force, the next shot is likely a well positioned Backstab or Hook Strike. If they want to stack stealth, they will just move away and drop another BP.
I am sure in some fights in might make sense but to apply that statement in a blanket form will get a lot of players killed.
You can try it – in cases you don’t do it you have worse chances to win the fight. But that depends on your class and what you have on cooldown. My only chance as a non utility D/D thief is to run into smokefields, my chances are a lot worse if I don’t do it. But the game is buggy again and they’re still working on thief skills, the time CnD -> BS is longer than it used to be. Or BS in general, enemies can outrun it easily again. I do hope it’s work in progress. It’s not just server lag because I’m having it in PvE as well.
In case a dev stumbles over this post: thanks for improving CnD! (I have noticed it).
Add tiers to SMC, if you hit t10 you can wipe the map clean! >.<
Yeah, I played with that thought a bit further – atombomb tactivators are only in SM and the explosion goes from there to all maps and wipes everything.
You can actually make the requirement that SM has to be tier 10 but I think it’s a better surprise turn around if it works no matter what tier, maybe tier 1 so that the opponents have got enough time to prevent it.
I disagree, it’s one step:
Atombombs for tactivators
It’s a bit racing after the clock, true, but the PvE grind is well worth it. And well, once the bomb is thrown the MU is over.
My bet is on Piken, sorry FSP (PS has got Jayne).
Also, after this matchup, I’d really love to hear what the devs are planning for the future.
That is without snark, btw.
No offense but you seem to have comprehension or english reading issues. I’m not saying that to be a prick but wonder if english is not your first language in which case I ’m happy to explain things a bit more comprehensively.
It is not my first language, but I guess in this case it is you: I already wrote it and I guess I’m in need of a forum break again as I’m feeling like a parrot again: You can’t save or buff thief unless you nerf D/P.
In short get what exactly? There’s no right/wrong, black/white. Such issues as balance and build variation are multifaceted and complex and I’m interested to discuss and debate the topic. Not get into “My opinion is right, yours is therefore wrong” cyclic arguments that serve little actual purpose and stifle debate in place of argument for the sake of it.
1. I find the lack of build variation and options in PvP, and to a lesser extent PvE, to be a deterrent to both my enjoyment of the Thief class and the amount of time I spend playing it comparative to the first 2-3 years the game was out when there were more variations that were viable in all formats. As someone who mostly plays PvE now the recent VS changes have recently aggravated this and taken away the viability of yet another build players had been using for years.
You can play anything in PvE actually – although staff and D/D are the most efficient in most cases – D/D always was.
3. Nerfing D/P is a completely counter-intuitive solution that completely ignores the issue and will only make the class even less viable. As much as I hate the lack of build choices in PvP one meta build is better than zero.
See first point – read a bit more into thief traits and weaponskills before you claim that nerfing D/P wouldn’t solve anything. You can’t buff other sets enough to be able to compete with D/P. And that is where our issue is – it’s not the language, it’s not my black and white thinking, it’s your lack of understanding thief – no offense.
As such I think we agree with each other in that we would both prefer other options and play styles to be more viable in meta play, while I disagree with your thoughts that nerfing D/P will accomplish this.
I guess I’ve finally kind of explained that – or at least I hope so.
In the end: Duel a D/P thief as a non D/P thief.
ETA: And this sounds meaner than it was intended. I’m just very tired of saying the whole stuff again and again and no one listens and nothing changes.
The game as a whole is in desperate need of balance, yes – so D/P thief is ok in comparison with others (a bit worse in pvp), it’s OP in comparison with nearly every other thief set – and that’s the problem. Because as long as there will be thieves (the remaining are D/P) anet won’t realize that there is a massive problem.
So, you didn’t get it after all, firefly – I’m honestly confused what your point is. Even S/D was UP in comparison to D/P back in the day, before the traitmerge which only indirectly buffed D/P. Every other nerf since has hurt D/P the least.
Let all thieves be dead so anet will finally be forced to do something. As long as D/P is as strong as it is there is no hope for any other set.
Don’t believe me? face a D/P thief while not being one yourself.
And actually you guys should look at other sets and what their build options would be and then at D/P and what traits they are able to take and still have a working set.
Ever complained about vanilla SRej? Now they can take Srej, DF and also stealth longer as prepardness is easily availlable to them, which formerly was a problem. Other thieves don’t really need that much initative (except D/D condi spam) – it’s nice to have, really it is, just that especially D/P can get the most of their prolonged stealth duration – which no other thief has access to.
Imo this is exactly why Anet have slowly but surely killed off build variation and experimentation (outside cheese novelty builds made for teh lolz) in favor of a select few “meta default build” selections that dictate set play style, especially for the Thief class which has pretty much one top dog build, as perfectly illustrated by the recent update option “that allows players to select from a list of preconfigured builds.”. They have given up the option for embracing varied build and play styles in the hope cookie cutter PvP will equate to better balance.
The game was nearly balanced before June last year which was rather coincidence as well as the ferocity patch might have “saved” them (I was a noob before so I can’t compare pre and post). They didn’t care about condis afterwards though. So this game has never really been balanced since april 15th 2014.
They didn’t give up on anything, they just had no clue. If you look at the traitmerge: they didn’t work together, every dev just decided what his class should have and that was implemented. Same with Elites although elites might have been balanced in regards on the oh so tough PvE raids.
I have no idea what builds one can chose in PvP but I do know that the PvP team is rather unhappy with balance as well, at least it seems so.
I’m no pvp player, wvw player, I just know that the pvp team tried to balance pvp, that’s all I can say to that game mode.
And we’ve had the discussion: a balance pve,pvp and wvw would work if anet would finally balance anything at all. You can always nerf the pve mobs – that should be the least of the problems.
Sry, i don’t have Jana’s syndrome “If i can’t enjoy my build then whole class should be deleted and nobody else shall have fun” so it really bothers me when someone keeps bringing up d/p as some kind of source of evil.
Is kind of insulting because you obviously didn’t read any of what I wrote.
But instead did the very thing you accuse me of: don’t use any logic but just plainly defend your set.
ETA: And if you report me for this again, I’ll report your previous post as it was completely unneccessary to call me out. I know how this works.
If you feel like you are being addressed here then you must be guilty of it. I did read what you wrote. There was post after post that can be summed into: “please nerf all viable thief sets (d/p especially) so thief is so crappy that Anet one day might buff my beloved d/d. I couldn’t care less that thieves had abyssal experience for seasons in pvp and that my request would doom them to even worse experience”.
Yes, i will defend the only set that keeps us barely viable in high tier pvp. It is not broken just because you hate it and just because your beloved d/d is suffering from devs poor choices.
Also how odd: my forum box got spammed with mod messages around that time. “Someone” went on rampage and reported about every post i made back then, how odd indeed, i wonder who it was~
Not me, I report people for a reason, unlike you.
Also you adressed me – why else would you write my name if I’m not even in this thread yet.
And you didn’t get the point/problem with D/P and never will.
So have a nice day and please try not to adress or mention me any further as it leads to nothing. thanks.
People who transfers should get its wvw rank at zero, they should start fresh in that server.
The problem right now (on at least EU) isn’t transfers, it’s mainly anet who just gave “free transfers” to hundreds by merging servers in a way that created monsterblob-servers, because they think that servers on EU couldn’t compete against each other anyway, so they created an artificial ranking.
I just created a new account – it’s no real punishment to start at wvw rank 0.
You’re right, I misread or read clumsy.
But I don’t think balance will work without finally nerfing D/P (and DrD and buffing all other sets and some traitlines while other need shaving).
Also: pvp is an entirely different mode than the rest of the game right now – it’s getting confusing when speaking about what needs buff and nerfs – but well, at least the pvp team tried to do something.
You’re comparing D/P (in pvp) against other classes in pvp.
Deceiver (and I) compares D/P with other thief sets in general.
D/P is holding the class/profession back because compared to all other thief sets it’s OP.
Better than 12 s stealth with SRej.
ETA: Honestly: I duelled a former buddy quite a lot and he told me I shouldn’t stand in his BP, so I didn’t do it and he won every time. I didn’t do that with other D/P thieves and I won ‘every’ time.
I get that if it’s a D/P + staff thief this could be dangerous.
Last time I won a fight while doing so I was at 5% health – but I used steal and SoH.
It’s still very hard to stealth multiple times with the same field if an enemy stands in there.
And you don’t have to stand in BP like a helpless chicken – it’s a myth that standing in BP does any harm – the one blind doesn’t matter if you’re prepared for it – the blind from SS is harder to predict as in a melee fight you don’t always realize you’ve just been SS-ed.
It’s only for a few seconds but if you wanted to get away, that’s plenty of time to repostion your self, it’s also a blind which helps a great deal not to mention the blast.
Dp is only mobile at chasing, not kiting, any thief build has as much mobilty as d/p…that is ofc they don’t shadow shot on ambaint creatures.
I know I’m using it and am still using SR and my beloved signet of shadows.
They can just stealth, jump away stealth again and then use SS – to me that’s mobile, no idea whether that counts as kiting or not.
Sorry, really unconentrated right now – I rather leave you guys alone
true
still the stealth lasts a few secons which doesn’t really help anyway.
ETA: (Targeted skills and stuff – and engi reveal applies to any skill they use and they’ve got mainly AoE skills – so you can’t really escape that anyway – but it’s a very long topic)
It sucks but thives should know by now not to even bother with shadow refuge, and I don’t mean because of revealed I mean the amount of aoe/cc since hot. Blinding powder is much better if you want s stealth utility.
until they realize that standing in blinding powder destroys it.
He only speaks of EU, not NA – you used NA as an example and he said nowhere that the same rules of EU apply for NA.
Oh right ok, so they don’t balance according to tier for NA………. so why are lower tier servers getting demolished by higher tier servers in their matchups?
I already said that I have no idea of NA it’s been more than 2 years that I left NA. Maybe it wasn’t their intend, maybe they have troubles to balance but he said nowhere that their general intend is not to balance anything at all, he just spoke of EU. sorry.
There’s 3 things that have to be taken into account when hampering with servers: Skill, population size, offhour capping.
ETA: 4 things actually: Human nature on top of that: You frustrate players, they give up. Easy matchups: fairweathers come out.
T1 of NA was pretty much the same for the past nearly 3 years. It changed every other week on EU – so it’s very hard to tell which server is tier one, tier two and so on. Anet just decided who is who and buffed those they redeem tier one to lock T1 and every other tier.
It was fun before, now we’re being cemented into some MUs we can’t get out of. Why then even have glicko and all this stuff if we’re not supposed to rank up and play against others because anet decided that we’re not good enough anyway and don’t deserve a chance of a fair fight.
“Oh guys, lets quit for the week, we have one t2 and one t3 server – we don’t stand a chance”. GG!
Maybe the skirmish thing is supposed to work or supposed to work differently, but so far I have no idea what “win but only by a bit” is supposed to mean and how all of this should work out.
I really should’ve read that post – I skipped it because I was and am mad that they deleted a tier on EU. But he speaks of EU, not NA – so your example is the exact opposite – on NA it should be balanced, on EU we are supposed to have the very same MU every week.
Ok, then @anet:
I have been on NA before tiers were locked entirely but we faced CD and YB for about 6 weeks in a row back then. That was beyond boring. All we wanted was some new opponents.
I left for EU and was pretty amazed that even the lower tiers could produce blobs at prime. They could until shortly after the launch of HoT which made a lot of people quit.
That was when everything started to die (although we had problems before and no, DBL wasn’t the only/real reason why wvw suffered).
What you now did is what the players on NA did the past few years and you just linked the servers on NA to balance population and at the same time create the very same scenario that destroyed NA on EU.
One the one hand you say necro has to be strategical and has to have foresight which you don’t think belongs in this game, later on you say this is what is important in GW2 combat
My necro buddy is a tank, I met him while we were enemies and he soloed one of our towers (I just came from soloing one of theirs). I later on transfered to his server and we duoloed everything. We’re exact opposites from our play, but achieve the same thing.
