Guild Wars 2

Elegy.2159:

Jana.6831:

But why did they change that? So people won’t call their 80’s friends to help them leveling?

I’m not sure. I suspect it may be to maintain population in lower level zones/tailor the NPE, but my suspicions are rarely correct.

The only reason I can think of would be that some people might be discouraged when losing against a spider 5 levels above them. They aren’t me who spent 5 hours fighting against a bug in wow – I died about 50 times.
The megaservers should’ve solved the population problem.
And the low level areas were my favourites back in the day, when scaling still worked, when there was still nodes around and when no one complained that there were 80s doing events on that map ;)

Elegy.2159:

Jana.6831:

You get more exp when killing higher levels and when I started to play it also said “more loot”

This was changed. :c

A few levels higher, idk, the XP may be slightly higher than what you gain from killing mobs your exact level. A significant level discrepancy these days = less XP, glancing blows, more aggro. No benefit.

Ok, good to know =)
I’m not really interested in exp so I didn’t care about it when leveling my last character. It was okay, actually. Like I said I could do 10 level above me although 8 was easier. Higher than 10 and I was insta dead.
But why did they change that? So people won’t call their 80’s friends to help them leveling?

phys.7689:

I have to wait .5 seconds on my mesmer to pull monsters for control/interupts because in pvp people felt other players werent given enough time to respond. This has elimated key party saving control for mesmer in pve, and made the skill a lot less usable/logical.
oh snap! 5 enemies are going to kill billy! let me pull them away! in .5 seconds… oh billy is dead.

Its not that pve skills should never be nerfed, its that if they are nerfed, it should be for pve reasons, in ways that are consistent with class designs/play and make sense for pve

Well, then don’t spam your skills or teach billy how to play.
Sorry, but it’s true – I have been on my ranger for the first time in a year today and I absolutely hate knockback, always did, but I thought I put it to some good use and do a teq fight, so I choose the battery with the exploding zombies to knockback them and only had troubles with my cooldown once – it’s more than enough time if you don’t spam skills. And well, there were other people around who could’ve attacked/immobilized/feared the zombie.

You get more exp when killing higher levels and when I started to play it also said “more loot” – but I won’t rez you if you’re in a level 80 area when being level 10 as it’s useless and I consider that trolling. I have been able to kill mobs 10 level above me and that alone was pretty hard, so try to be reasonable.

You used your armor in the wrong order: Zerker with runes of the pack for S/D and valk with strength for D/D, otherwise at least D/D is solid. If you’re D/D using hidden killer, your main source of damage are backstabs. The hidden killer gives you 100% crit chance so you don’t need zerker’s for that and since you have to be close to your opponent to cast your CnD you will likely get more damage, so some extra vitality is nice to have. S/D doesn’t rely on stealth but more on ports and sustained damage, for that zerker is the better choice.
I rarely finish my autoattack chain with my D/D backstab build as I mostly hit and run (to come back and hit again).

Edit (sorry was multitasking when writing this) : 5k backstabs against heavies who aren’t zerker’s is good, the damage only goes higher if they’re zerker themselves. As for the damage income/output ratio; well we’re thieves. Just thought about maining my ranger again until thieves will be buffed in a year or two.

Well yeah, the question is why one has to do a dungeon to finalize the personal story, that is something I’ve always wondered about.
Other than that most content of this game is perfectly solo able, I should know as I solo nearly everything which makes my friend wonder, because “you know, this is a MMO”. I like to play with other people but I don’t want them to be around 24/7.

Edit: Typos

This thread is more than a month old, I’m pretty certain that the OP already moved on. And I can understand that some players post threads because they’ve got a moment of frustration, no need to keep this story alive.

Dhemize.8649:

Does anyone remember the last time they used an asura elite that wasn’t used as a joke?

“Quick, jump in the power suit!” -said nobody ever.

First few seconds * nodds wisely *

I can see why it’s recommended and I know that the turrets are playing a big part of the fight – but if you stand right next to his feet you see when the waves come as he produces them with stomping.
I’m not only dealing with the waves, I just used them as an example and I’m not so sure if soldier’s is that much better than zerker’s when it come’s to the aoe from the fingers.
Anyway, I’m still not downed in my zerker’s gear, worse players than me might be.
We have no TTS on EU and we’re doing fine, actually the teq fights are way less stressful on EU, you can turn up 2 mins beforehand and it still works.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Jana.6831:

Lifestealer.4910:

Game does need to get ALOT harder actually, everything is too kitten easy.

No, I think we’ve reached a point at which most people are simply confused. Had a talk with someone today who said soldier’s is kitten because one has got to be unkillable when wearing it which isn’t the case, therefore anet messed up soldier’s. And who told me I’m stupid for doing teq in zerker’s (unfortunately the thread was closed so I couldn’t discuss this anymore) – so we’re at a point where even less people understand the game mechanics, I think.

Anyway: I don’t get every mechanic either but to assume that one is invincible when wearing this or that gear or being on this or that character is nonsense, it’s still the brain that matters.

Well… with teq, wearing zerker’s to it IS kinda stupid, if you’re in the zerg. Teq is a structure, and cant be critically hit. If you’re in the areas where they have the defense teams, then it’s good, because you’ve got mob spawns.

But I do agree with you about soldiers (and sentinels) gear. That’s what I run on my guardian for everything, including fractals. She may not be invincible, but she’s kitten near close to it. And yet, people still think it’s foolish to wear it in fractals. I used to as well… until Archdiviner redecorated by splattering the rest of my party in the first fight. And later on when mai trin trashed the party because no one could take a hit. And now? So what if I cant burst as good as you, I more than make up for it by getting your sorry kitten off the ground while I shrug off the damage the boss is doing. Repeatedly.

I am in the zerg. And do theoretically more damage than someone who lets their gear carry them as being hit by a wave and getting up again takes longer than evading it.
If someone in soldier’s evades the waves as well, we’re again doing the same damage – why do you guys refuse to get my point?

Cuddy.6247:

Soldier’s is kitten. When new content is designed where attributes are completely unhelpful, ANet goofed – their core concept is a joke compared to every other mainstream game (all inclusive – MMO and not) on the market. The game’s limited, inaccessible and marginal. There’s no other game that forces marginalization as much as GW2. I also never called you stupid for using zerker in Teq, I said he’s a structure that can’t be crit – using zerker gear is counterproductive, although I will call you stupid now for implying such a thing.

You’re a lemming and a rube.

Hey, I discussed this in this thread and you still didn’t get my point? Soldier’s is only better when doing Teq if you mess up.
Soldier’s: power, toughness, vitality
Zerker’s: power, ferocity, precision
The toughness won’t hit Teq any harder, the vitality won’t hit him any harder. The same with ferocity and precision, I know, but as long as I know how to survive I’m doing the exact amount of damage like someone in soldier’s. So how is that counterproductive?
But, like I said: You can mess up in soldier’s multiple times wheras you can only mess up in zerker’s once (every other minute). It would be stupid if people would be invincible because of their gear choice and that is what you meant, right?

Vayne.8563:

I can certainly assume you don’t live in Australia. That much I can assume. The problem with all this generalizing about whether or not you should or shouldn’t use that gear could be as simple as where you live and what your internet connection is like. It’s partly a matter of skill but not completely a matter of skill.

I don’t know how skilled you are, personally and it’s not really pertinent to what I’m saying. No I don’t think you should carry more armor around in your bag, I’m simply saying dodging by itself guarantees nothing if the Internet isn’t on your side.

I can assume you don’t live in the EU otherwise you’d know that there are serious lag issues on EU servers which get worse when playing on an NA server from EU (which I did the past month and successfully fought Teq 3 times a day).
Well, I have been generalized in being “mad” because I use zerker’s while there is no argument against it.
I do hope you guys got my point; I’m in no way against soldier’s tanky gear/newer players, I just think that all this stuff is getting out of hand and is therefore confusing people. Or maybe it always was out of hand, I have to think about it more.

And I have to hurry to get to Teq.

Sorin.4310:

You’ve made quite the assumption to lump me in with people who think other gear has more merit since the crit nerf. I’ve been one of the advocates of zerker gear since about the start of this game, and have only become more passionate about it as time has gone on, through its changes. Literally all of my characters are in zerker gear. I PvP in zerker gear. It doesn’t change the fact that zerker gear has two useless stats on taco. So I have a soldier’s set there, because it’s more useful.

Well, I usually don’t look into the forum history of people (in fact I never do), so I can only judge by what you just told me and that sounded as if you think that soldier’s is better in a teq fight. It is if you don’t know when to dodge or have lag (@ vayne) but the extra toughness and health only helps you if you mess up. Or have fun rezzing people and are overrun by waves. Not saying people shouldn’t be using it, but that’s some other form of elitism and well the arguments aren’t that thought through.

Sorin.4310:

Tanky gear is not always a good option either. Take the OP’s concern: retaliation. It isn’t reduced by toughness. So in zerker gear: less health so fewer stacks of retal kill him, but he also has to do less hits to kill the mob. Tanky gear: more health so more stacks of retal kill him, bu the also has to do more hits to kill the mob. It’s the same story. It goes back to the game not teaching basic mechanics. It’s the same debate that’s been done a million times in the dungeon thread. Gear isn’t the issue. Playstyle is.

Tanky gear isn’t always more health.
And I think tanky gear and a bigger health pool helps with retaliation but best is not to attack at all.

Vayne.8563:

Knowing when to dodge, and being able to guarantee you have no lag, sure. But sometimes the Teq fight can lag, and then you can know when to dodge from here till Sunday but you’ll still go down. A guy with toughness and vitality might not.

No one can guarantee they won’t lag on Tequatl.

So, you say I should carry extra gear for possible lag?
No, sorry, I have been downed twice today, once because of lag, once because I was stupid, other than that I get through most fights without being downed or killed. If you’re on EU we can play together, if you don’t believe me.

Sorin.4310:

Jana.6831:

Lifestealer.4910:

Game does need to get ALOT harder actually, everything is too kitten easy.

No, I think we’ve reached a point at which most people are simply confused. Had a talk with someone today who said soldier’s is kitten because one has got to be unkillable when wearing it which isn’t the case, therefore anet messed up soldier’s. And who told me I’m stupid for doing teq in zerker’s (unfortunately the thread was closed so I couldn’t discuss this anymore) – so we’re at a point where even less people understand the game mechanics, I think.

Anyway: I don’t get every mechanic either but to assume that one is invincible when wearing this or that gear or being on this or that character is nonsense, it’s still the brain that matters.

Well I won’t call you stupid, but it seems an odd choice to wear zerker gear to taco when it can’t be critted, so two of the stats of zerker gear is completely useless. Unless you meant to say you are in the nonzerg part of taco, then by all means use zerker.

They might be confused because most of the content of GW2 is brain-numbingly easy. It’s coddled them into a zero thought attitude when playing the game. It’s an incredibly simple concept to not use low damage, multihit attacks when the target you’ve clicked on has retribution. However, if hardly any other part of the game requires you to keep this in mind, it suddenly becomes “difficult”. The issue in this game is not the difficult content – it’s the complete lack of introductions to things that matter (like teaching boons, combo fields). Instead it lets you know what a vista is.

Why is it odd when I already have it? Teq isn’t that hard that I have to have gear especially for him. And soldier’s and zerker’s base is both power, so if I know when to dodge I’m doing just as much damage as someone wearing soldier’s. And extra damage when defending the batteries as the mobs there are “critable”. And mind you, I know when to dodge. And you’re a good example of what I meant actually – no offense, really – people think that some other gear has to have way more value now since the ferocity/crit nerf and since newer bosses aren’t critable – but it’s simply not true.

Edit: And from that stems that the content is too hard as they already wear the tanky gear and so on – with that I don’t mean the OP, btw. I’m frequently dying in my LS instances as well, but that’s more because the bosses are new to me – I know that if I would be doing it a few more times I would have no problem at all.

Lifestealer.4910:

Game does need to get ALOT harder actually, everything is too kitten easy.

No, I think we’ve reached a point at which most people are simply confused. Had a talk with someone today who said soldier’s is kitten because one has got to be unkillable when wearing it which isn’t the case, therefore anet messed up soldier’s. And who told me I’m stupid for doing teq in zerker’s (unfortunately the thread was closed so I couldn’t discuss this anymore) – so we’re at a point where even less people understand the game mechanics, I think.

Anyway: I don’t get every mechanic either but to assume that one is invincible when wearing this or that gear or being on this or that character is nonsense, it’s still the brain that matters.

I had no problems with it on my thief.

Ok, still I think it’s a pity that thieves have to trade all their power just to get one utility trait.

kaikalii.4198:

Jana.6831:

Edit ²: In case you wonder: I wonder why people think that 20606 is better than the old meta. Even with boon steal. Not saying you shouldn’t use it but to me it’s sad that thieves invent builds that have no real value to them just to get one trait. You won’t need condi damage as a power thief. And that was kind of what I was answering, although I do have a decent crit chance sorry.

I get what your saying, but there are some really good benefits to running 6 in trickery over 6 in crit-strikes for D/D. The ones that make it for me are the interrupt and reduced steal cooldown on SoH, and the extra initiative from the 3 point trait. Also, the fury from TotC makes up, in part, for the lower crit-chance. I think that for a lot of people, after you run 6 trickery for a while, it’s hard to go back. The utility is just so good, and it can more than make up for your slightly lower damage.

I will say, though, that for D/P, I do run 26006 for buttloads of damage.

True, you’re right, but I don’t get why the 6 in shadow arts is necessary – there’s no power behind a build like that. 26006 is a whole different story.

Cuddy.6247:

snip

Yeah, I’m sure these nerfs are geared toward some cheesy builds in PvP like celestial ele and hambow warrior though – not exactly taking PvE as their first consideration. When it comes to PvE, they aren’t helping anyone who dislikes meta builds by nerfing meta builds – core concept design is totally flawed and using Soldier’s doesn’t grant much more survivability in PvE despite all the additional toughness and vitality…that core concept is absurd, soldier’s should propel a character to near-tank proportions.

Anyone who really thinks that isn’t true, I’d love for them to have a go at my guardian that dies in three hits to Mordrem anyway. Aegis, protection and utility defense is the only thing that keeps him alive, certainly not the gear.

The only PVE thing I still do is teq. I have got 4 zerker characters (3 thieves and one necro) and one soldier’s ranger. I’m in the same range with my ranger as with my thieves/necro and my ranger can mess up 10 times and still isn’t downed, wheras I can only mess up with my thieves once. Not sure about the necro. The fight is really boring with my ranger to be honest. He has got some glass canon trait set up, so no extra survivability or anything. The difference here might be that mordrems throw a lot of AOE while the waves at teq are only physical damage, so tankyness helps against physical damage, more health helps against condi damage. The trick is not to mess up which is impossible when it comes to pvp/wvw encounters and that’s where people really have to trade their stats. The changes for pve are minimal.

@ kaikalii:
I’m running a similar build:
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAoYVlsMp7plPxzJ0PNxOBtdAq9E4+EdoEdNEA-T1SAABaq+DO7PomSwtUuVxDAAgDIAXKJu4QAwn+gHORAecEAIDg+YA-w
That’s the old thief meta build, I think (except the ridiculous skills).
I’m currently playing a lot of 1vs1 in pvp with a friend who mains thief as well. But he tests different builds and set ups S/D, D/P and D/D, while my build always stays the same (yeah, I’m lazy). Anyway, he’s good, so not a noob or anything. We analyzed my nooby setup because I own him 80% of the time, I have problems with D/P, other than that I mostly win – and we found that each of these stupid skills and traits I use have a viable purpose. So, he immobilizes me and/or I miss CnD = I use blinding powder. My health is low, he’s trying to get to me = I use daggerstorm, My health is low, I need to use shadow refuge = I run away and set up SR as far as possible (signet of shadows, swiftness when dodging) so he won’t have too much time to poke around. My increased flanking strike damage means that every CnD is a crit (because I’m always half tuned when casting it anyway). So, he uses every “meta” build there is and I still always have an advantage.
But this is against thieves. I currently don’t know how it’s against other classes as I took a longer break from wvw due to lag and have transferred a lot since then and haven’t really been in any 1vs1 lately or settled to my new server, so I’m currently not that interested in wvw and well, EU is different than NA, I did well with this build over here (EU) the first time around, just had some problems with eles, engis and medi guards.

Edit: But you’re right; with this build it’s better to be stealthed. My autoattack and CnD hurt a lot though.
Edit ²: In case you wonder: I wonder why people think that 20606 is better than the old meta. Even with boon steal. Not saying you shouldn’t use it but to me it’s sad that thieves invent builds that have no real value to them just to get one trait. You won’t need condi damage as a power thief. And that was kind of what I was answering, although I do have a decent crit chance ;) sorry.

Basaltface.2786:

well.. seems now i NEED to run a stupid zerker build to balance out the loss i balanced out with might before…delightfull -_-

Welcome to my world, although I had to go zerker to balance out the april 15th nerf, which was to balance zerker. I couldn’t care less about pve but unfortunately these changes also applied to wvw.

Edit: Oh, and once you learn to survive with zerker in wvw pve is a breeze.

Ok, there are certain classes in this game you can be certain that they are new/inexperienced players.
There is also a class which is chosen by those who are experienced/good. And that class is thief.
So if anyone is new to this game and wonders about thieves they should ask an equally skilled friend to create a thief – I’m certain that the non thief will win. It takes skill to play thief; you don’t lose to thief, you lose to the player.

Zero Day.2594:

Yeah that’s what it seems to me too. They attempted to do the same thing with the crit dmg to ferocity switch, this might just be a continuation of it. Pretty sure it also stems from a PvE context (more so than others), where conditions are less used due to how they’re stacked amongst a group of people and not per individual basis (which would have it’s own problems, like bosses melting too fast) – that and bosses having that buff that also discourages condition usage.

Either way, the might changes I don’t consider them a direct/targeted nerf to thieves since it’s happening across all profs. Just a nerf/change across the whole board.

I never meant to imply that thieves were targeted with this nerf, I just think that anet didn’t really consider what the crit nerf did to thieves (with that I really mean the class) and what this might nerf is doing to certain builds/purposes (with that I mean all roamers in wvw) – I probably couldn’t care less if I were in a zerg 24/7 but I can’t be in a zerg since last april. And well, I think they should really think about separating wvw from pve as all these changes are really messing with wvw. And since they seem to be a bit overwhelmed when it comes to wvw… it might be best to just leave it alone. Or employ some people who are interested in wvw and not just T1.

Zero Day.2594:

Well, it’s not so much to benefit a specific play style in this case.
If you record which skills/traits are used by which class on which map/map-group (PvE, PvP, WvW), you can infer builds/meta’s by looking at the top-used. From there you may be able to see how/why each skill is used in relation to other top skill/traits from other classes. On the opposite side of the spectrum will be skills that are used a lot less, or complete not used at all. You can then compare top used skills with less/not used skills and see how they can be changed or replaced to fit in with the top skills.
Not to say this is how you balance, but this kind of data can help.

:P It’s kind of like if grocery stores collected what items each person bought (over the span of say a few years), they would be able to infer things like when you had guests over, when you had a birthday/some other event, diets, some physical characteristics (are you a fat-ass?), health concerns, and so on… not sure why or for what they would need that kind of information but hey it’s possible to do so from your grocery receipts.

True, but zergs share the might stacks, small groups share might stacks. It’s far more complicated. And if they look into what skills and builds people use they don’t necessarily get the right information as I feel that a lot of the thief builds out there are pretty desperate*. And I’m certain that they have the data and are likely also using it (that’s why sword 3 was nerfed). To me this is a further power nerf (although I know it’s also a condi nerf) and I feel that thieves don’t really need that or no one does*. So, I might (haha) be able to buffer it, but at the moment I’m just a bit annoyed.

-* I still don’t know enough about other classes to say whether or not this will really effect them or if they also have desperate builds to deal with the April 15th crit nerf.

Zero Day.2594:

Hard to tell by the name.
You could also be a weird dude that likes girl names.

The first guild I was in got it after 2 months – they were devastated (no kidding) and disbanded soon after.

Zero Day.2594:

Anet should keep/record data on which skills are used and which are not… 3/5 of the changes are interesting, and then the two trap ones are kind like “meh, still not going to use them. Thanks for trying”.

I actually don’t think anet really cares or they come from an entirely different point of view – as seen with the white sword changes in wvw – to them solo wvw roamers are non existent.

Nephrite.6954:

Jana.6831:

Well, my build will be nerfed as I rely on might stacks.. thanks anet!

Dude it’s still viable if you stack enough. It’s just overpowered when you stack too much and others don’t get to. Like thief compared to engi for example. Dude I get close to 20stakcs easily on my engi… Like permanent might. Plus it buffs condi dmg n power base. Unless if you’re running a p/x or u bleed with d/d 3 you won’t have any problem.

Yeah, solo roamer – I can’t really stack that much of might, nice that you can as an engi.
Oh, and I’m a she, dude.

Well, my build will be nerfed as I rely on might stacks.. thanks anet!

The past 2 days were pretty okay for me. No weird lag just lag when there was a zerg around and also at one teq fight. Yay I can play wvw again!

Edit (a few hours later) and I’m lagging again – yay. Whatever.

trooper.2650:

Let’s say I change server (from EU to NA), would this help me with lag? I haven’t heard NA ppl copmplaining much…

No, you’re still connected via the EU servers and will get some delay on top of that for playing on NA as an EU citizen.

I have been a really dedicated wvw player. For now 3 month I’m having lag, so as a D/D thief my CnD doesn’t hit the opponent, or I don’t hit my opponent at all. I’ve been on an EU server and stopped playing wvw because of the lag as it was useless. And well, it’s a rather subtile lag, if I were doing a lot of AOE damage I probably wouldn’t even notice. So, I stopped playing, a friend convinced me to help him, I tried and failed again due to this subtile lag. That’s when I went back to NA and hoped the lag would be gone, which of course it isn’t. So, I’m still having this strange lag, I still can’t compete with other players and I still can’t play wvw. The recent connection logs I made didn’t seem as if I have any major throttle at all, I think the last was at about 17% package loss at telia, but I’m still lagging. And yeah, it’s this subtile lag. I haven’t been playing wvw for now nearly 3 months because of it. Kind of frustrating because I loved wvw. Well, and I don’t know if transfering back to EU is worth it, guess not.

Edit: But at least on EU we all lagged together, my opponents to the left, I to the right – yeah it was fun.
Edit²: Usual If/Would problem and to add: I can fight non “special effect” opponents pretty good but I have to surrender to engineers and elementalists, can’t even hit them.

Edit: I have since transfered back to EU and the lag is better – not sure if it’s completely gone though – have to test it some more.
Edit ²: Still the same old problem – can’t hit with CnD or at all, lagspikes – wvw is still unplayable for me.

shadowpass.4236:

Lol… 1 or 2 arrows won’t make a difference.
__________________________________________________________________

I was just using your reasoning for the last part of that. If anyone is uninformed its you. There is no point in arguing any further if you refuse to believe what is true. I’m not the one that is uninformed.
__________________________________________________________________

Also, stop talking about cooldowns.

Thief just has to press f1, 5, and 1 to do 10k damage while an ele has to press 9 to do the same.

Every class has to press a different amount of buttons with different cooldowns to do the same thing but no one complains about it.
__________________________________________________________________

And talking on the forums has nothing to do with player skill. It’s actually funny you said that because I’ve never been kicked from a dungeon group as a ranger. You were just probably bad and kittened off the rest of the people in your party.

The dungeon hadn’t even started (and to make things worse I have been the leader) and you completely ignore my points but blubber your stuff which is no discussion and that is something I encounter really often with rangers. But to be fair the terrible knockback skill is something people often argue about – I read it in any open world map chat every day. So maybe more people are just like you but I notice it more on those who are being criticised for being bad players.
And I never kicked anyone from any party but if I see a LFG party with a ranger in it I pass.

Oh and by the way, you finally got my point: other classes have to do multiple things to get their burst, LB rangers don’t have to.

shadowpass.4236:

snip

LB2 can’t be dodged fully, the skills of a thief do have slight pauses between them and the point is that they are on cooldown afterwards wheras a ranger still has his 5-0 skills on no cooldown.
Ok, the rest of your post is just uninformed rage, I guess.
See, I was really kittened off when I was kicked from a dungeon group as a ranger – but I can understand everybody who does it. The way you guys argue in this thread just kind of proves it.

Jim Hunter.6821:

Jana.6831:

shadowpass.4236:

Jana.6831:

shadowpass.4236:

A thief can cover 4200 range instantly.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAV8Yl0Mp0pVOx7J8PNBNhw9qaz8e83yaFA-T1SBABlqSxDHEgIeAAYp8jo9HQR3wCXAAEMBhhSwcUXBgjAQAAEA25RP6RPaSBExWA-w

And it’s still 3 skills for one move.

You get 4200 with:
1. Traited Steal
2. Infiltrator’s Strike (Sword 2)
3. Shadowstep
4. Infiltrator’s Signet Active

And honestly, pressing 3 skills at once is very easy lol. Unless you click of course.

Ok, didn’t see the equipped sword – so it’s 4 skills which all have a slight pause between them, you can press 2 as a ranger and have 6 k+x of insta damage, which the thief dan’t evade while doing his 4 skill combo, then knockback and dodge and all 4 skills of the thief are wasted.
So you have to use 2 skills of your already equipped longbow to evade 4 skills of someone who will have 3 of the skills on cooldown afterwards – fair?

Edit: Or: you dodge and all of the 4 skills are wasted – one cannot dodge LB 2 though.

So a 2.5 second channel is insta damage?

So you mean because it lasts 2,5 sec and is half dodgeable it’s no insta burst?
Ok, I get your point (But we just got a buff, why nerf again?) but if you’re any good at any other class, roam wvw someday and fight rangers, maybe you’ll get everybody elses point. And even if you claim you already did it – do it some more.

SilverWF.4789:

Jana.6831:

shadowpass.4236:

Jana.6831:

shadowpass.4236:

A thief can cover 4200 range instantly.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAV8Yl0Mp0pVOx7J8PNBNhw9qaz8e83yaFA-T1SBABlqSxDHEgIeAAYp8jo9HQR3wCXAAEMBhhSwcUXBgjAQAAEA25RP6RPaSBExWA-w

And it’s still 3 skills for one move.

You get 4200 with:
1. Traited Steal
2. Infiltrator’s Strike (Sword 2)
3. Shadowstep
4. Infiltrator’s Signet Active

And honestly, pressing 3 skills at once is very easy lol. Unless you click of course.

Ok, didn’t see the equipped sword – so it’s 4 skills which all have a slight pause between them, you can press 2 as a ranger and have 6 k+x of insta damage, which the thief dan’t evade while doing his 4 skill combo, then knockback and dodge and all 4 skills of the thief are wasted.
So you have to use 2 skills of your already equipped longbow to evade 4 skills of someone who will have 3 of the skills on cooldown afterwards – fair?

Edit: Or: you dodge and all of the 4 skills are wasted – one cannot dodge LB 2 though.

What did you just said? Seems like you even didn’t understand what we are talking to you…

True, I don’t understand you, but you didn’t understand me when I mentioned it.

shadowpass.4236:

Jana.6831:

shadowpass.4236:

A thief can cover 4200 range instantly.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAV8Yl0Mp0pVOx7J8PNBNhw9qaz8e83yaFA-T1SBABlqSxDHEgIeAAYp8jo9HQR3wCXAAEMBhhSwcUXBgjAQAAEA25RP6RPaSBExWA-w

And it’s still 3 skills for one move.

You get 4200 with:
1. Traited Steal
2. Infiltrator’s Strike (Sword 2)
3. Shadowstep
4. Infiltrator’s Signet Active

And honestly, pressing 3 skills at once is very easy lol. Unless you click of course.

Ok, didn’t see the equipped sword – so it’s 4 skills which all have a slight pause between them, you can press 2 as a ranger and have 6 k+x of insta damage, which the thief dan’t evade while doing his 4 skill combo, then knockback and dodge and all 4 skills of the thief are wasted.
So you have to use 2 skills of your already equipped longbow to evade 4 skills of someone who will have 3 of the skills on cooldown afterwards – fair?

Edit: Or: you dodge and all of the 4 skills are wasted – one cannot dodge LB 2 though.

shadowpass.4236:

A thief can cover 4200 range instantly.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fZAQNAV8Yl0Mp0pVOx7J8PNBNhw9qaz8e83yaFA-T1SBABlqSxDHEgIeAAYp8jo9HQR3wCXAAEMBhhSwcUXBgjAQAAEA25RP6RPaSBExWA-w

Still no 4200 – do the math for me? And it’s still 3 skills for one move.

shadowpass.4236:

Jana.6831:

To be honest: I do have troubles to understand you.
My point is that it does take little skill to do a lot of damage with a ranger’s longbow. *However, it does take a lot of skill to get to you as a thief from a range of 900+ and nearly “one shot you”. *

Thieves can port 4200 range instantly.

With what skill? and I think both of you are now missing my (and other’s) point ;)

SilverWF.4789:

Jana.6831:

have a 70% chance you’re dead before you reach me,

Bad undergeared players only.
I’m roaming a lot and trust me, there is a tons of situations where you will right, and even more, where all I can said was “omg, what the f*** it was?”. This thieves, teleporting to you from 2k+ range and nearly oneshotting (if not oneshotting, but permaevade everything you got), that guardians with the same teleport and speed of kill.

To be honest: I do have troubles to understand you.
My point is that it does take little skill to do a lot of damage with a ranger’s longbow. However, it does take a lot of skill to get to you as a thief from a range of 900+ and nearly “one shot you”.

Jim Hunter.6821:

SilverWF.4789:

2. Rly? Did you counted Minis or not? Never seen Rangers with THREE pets at once, but seen Necros with 6 pets

You can actually get at least 6. Hyena and summon, hounds of balthazar, ogre or pirate runes, and sigil of demon summoning. Throw on spirits and you will be a walking zoo.

Now is this effective? Absolutely not, but it gives the ranger haters something else to kitten about.

I out myself to be a ranger hater. My first main was a ranger and I know some really good rangers but in general I can’t stand them “Stop with the knockback, please” “But my knockback is soo much better than your damage that’s why I storm into everything and pew pew from 1500 range”. Rangers desperately needed a buff but in my opinion anet went over the top with it. So it is a very noob friendly class at least if you’re not trying to solo roam as you can hold onto your LB and let others do the melee work. And rangers can hurt a lot, I agree with most points the OP made. It would’ve been nice if the buffs required some effort/knowhow but it’s just “I pew pew and have a 70% chance you’re dead before you reach me, I have no backup plan for the 30%” – and that is kind of sad.
To the pet situation: I’ve been a classic bearbow invader and even back then I shook my head when someone attacked my pet – it’s utterly useless unless the ranger is a tank and running with a bird – then it might be better to kill the petS first.

C Gunner.9406:

I agree that each class can prevent being interrupted from stomping. I absolutely hate getting stomped by a stealthed thief though, especially when youve been trying to kill it while its been in stealth all fight.

Engis and Rangers stomp while stealthed too.
Oh, and mesmers probably.

DeWolfe.2174:

Maybe in EU it’s played so softly. Here there are players that EotM with a bit more spirit.

I added the “at least in NA” because I came across a lot of platin ranks in EU who were downed after one hit (that in regular wvw and they were no uplevels).
EotM is now about the same on EU and NA.

EotM has been war at the start, at least in NA, then people became bored and EotM deserted. Then PvE players discovered it as their karma train, now WvW players are claiming it back. Happens.

NA servers I’ve been on: Garri, Bay, Hills – German EU server: Mittelfeste Home, Bucht, Hügel

Germans like their stuff uncomplicated that’s why they don’t use wg (although that’s misleading as bay also has a watergate) for wurmgate bay nor Wurmtor which would be the correct German translation, no they say “Würmchentor Bucht” (minimization of wurm) So you can imagine that it takes at least thrice as long to call out enemies in Germany ;)

Edit: There’s also no abbreviations for enemies but their names are usually minimized as well.

Felis Noctu.9081:

Of course not, but it’s a fact of life, especially in the western MMO market. People will always find some reason to complain. Now on the other hand, when you have several months of solid complaints at all hours of the day, it becomes less about the complaints and more about “oh… maybe we DID do something wrong”. I’d like to think they’re working on it. Hell, I haven’t even been here for most of it, and just as quick peek into the game earlier today shut me down entirely. Like so many people have said, this has gone on too long. If I was annoyed with it within a couple minutes (and I like I think I have a decent amount of patience), I have no idea how people have lasted months.

Ok, sorry I got you wrong.
The trait changes weren’t the only thing that was changed back in april, the crit damage nerf took a lot of the heat while the trait changes weren’t obvious to most people at first – that’s why this thread is a rather silent one.
But can I be honest: I only like the account wide colour unlock and the trait reset of the april 15th patch and dislike everything else, I still do. But explaining all of this would sound like a sour kitten and well, I don’t want to sound like that and it’s a long story actually. I still love this game but the april patch is dunno, still leaving bad feelings.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

there’s a seventy page thread with a lot of shouting back and forth arguing not whether it’s broken or not . . . but how broken it is.

To be honest: there are tons of suggestions how to make things better.
I only suggested stuff once, the rest of the time I told about my experiences and what I expect to be future problems (that was 1 or 2 weeks after April 15th). Simply because I think that no matter what, locking traits behind content is a really bad idea, especially if you want your players to learn your game as that ain’t gonna happen this way.

Felis Noctu.9081:

People will always complain, and traits are on the forefront of everyone’s mind

True, they will always complain but that shouldn’t be a justification for a bad idea, right?
I recently moved back to NA and was kind of surprised to find some commanders here and there who did trait related quests – that is nice. I didn’t have that on EU. Anyway, most people I’ve met didn’t bother with doing the quests but bought their traits of which they had few. It wasn’t their top priority.

That being said, I simply don’t care anymore, I was just kind of bummed to find that the trait for doing the claw island personal story quest has been removed. But I’ve gotten 3 traits from PS after level 70 now. I still don’t know what’s the logic behind it, but whatever.

Gaile Gray.6029:

Hey there,

Colin Johanson and I had a chat about this thread today. He actually brought it up because he wanted to make sure that forum members know that the dev team is very aware of the concerns that our players feel about traits, and also to let you know that the devs read and refer to this subject (and particularly this thread) quite frequently. We’ve said it before, but it remains true: Your voices are being heard and your input is valued.

We wish there was more to say today, but please take heart that this subject is part of current development team discussions and we’ll let you know more as soon as we reasonably can do so.

It’s been nearly a year – I gave up hope, I really did.

Kungsmurfen.2861:

True. NA got guilds for all timeslots (NA, EU, OCX etc..) while EU T1 almost only have EU guilds so most EU T1 probably couldn’t contend with top tier NA, on coverage alone. Only exception might be SFR.

In theory, yes, the reality looks differently. I have been on a bronze/silver tier server for the past few months – they were really bad (sorry but it’s true “What?! There are no white swords anymore? Did we ever have white swords?”) but they ranked up by doing early morning karma trains, which would be NA prime. And on top of that they’re a German server, so no guilds from NA around – only one time zone.

GuzziHero.2467:

When you try to do some of the traits that require grouping (most of them) on lonely maps, you will beg for more story related ones.

Well, then suggest that anet adds more traits to the story quests as now you’ll only get one at a level 70 story quest which makes no sense at all and which is the reason I wrote (again) in this thread.

Edit, no I got another trait for “the battle for fort trinity”, the quest right after “forging the pact” – still I think it’s rather uncool to wait 70 levels just to do these two stories to get traits – it would actually make more sense to either get more traits at lower instances or to remove traits from the personal story altogether.

I haven’t been in this thread for quite a while, so forgive me if anyone already wrote what I’m about to write:

I made another thief, thief is my main and well, I just wanted another level 80 thief, I had enough tomes to waste anyway. So I leveled him like this: Bring to level 20, do personal story, eat some tomes until the level is high enough for yellows (level 35), craft yellows, defeat mobs 10 levels above. When that got boring or impossible: personal story, tomes, next yellows – rinse and repeat.
In the meantime I tried to get some traits. Reason why I’m doing the personal story not because I like it that much, but because of the traits. Turns out the trait for doing the claw island instance has been removed, which is a good thing actually as getting the story related traits is the most time consuming. But there’s still a trait for “forging the pact”, so maybe that should be changed as well as when I want that trait I still have to do every story before it.

Edit: grammar