Guild Wars 2

Wolfheart.1879:

Jana.6831:

Bernie.8674:

You’re missing the point that this is a serious impediment to the new player experience. […]
The goal of the trait system was ostensibly to make the new player experience more engaging, and it has done the exact opposite.

The Trait changes have got nothing to do with the NPE – they were introduced in april, the NPE in september. Back in april no one ever spoke of making this game “easier” for new players. The official explanation was to make leveling between level 30 and 60? more exciting.

I don’t think Bernie was saying that he thought the traits were introduced as part of the NPE. The trait update, which came about from a few different things, suc as a CDI from around that time about progression (although it has been stated on this thread that this change bears very little relation to what the players in that CDI were actually getting at), as well as a desire to allow for greater build customisation.

However, the system, which was criticised heavily at release and continuously since, gains increased criticism based upon the later addition of the NPE. Making things easier for new players to get into the game by streamlining and simplifying aspects of progression, makes the incredible cost in terms of time, effort, gold and skill points of this system even more ridiculous and out of place. The point being made, simply, was that as convoluted and unnecessary as the new system was at its release, it is even more so now in relation to later efforts with the NPE.

Additionally, the NPE was the perfect opportunity for an overhaul to the new system. An opportunity lost. As it stands now, the trait system is something of an oddity. A relatively newer system that, while certainly with some aspects of promise, is so counter to the re-focused aims of Anet with the NPE that its continued existence is hard to explain, let alone justify. Ultimately the system is a huge barrier for new players trying to get stuck in and enjoy the game to the fullest as soon as possible. Given a focus is on getting new players and keeping them playing, the fact that the trait requirements remain unchanged is shocking.

I seem to be hard to understand – alright I didn’t assume that Bernie thought it was part of the NPE, I was just very sure that this wasn’t introduced for new players. I’ve read the very same link you just gave me and just got “add more meaningful character progression from levels 30 to 80” for some reason.
I don’t think the real NPE is bad for new players, I also don’t think it’s bad for experienced players as it doesn’t really restrict anything, apart from some stuff below level 15? The trait changes do restrict. I’m still quite confident that anet works on something to improve the trait aquisition and maybe the NPE came out to early for that – I don’t know. Just wanted to point out that these two things don’t belong together.

Oh, you were the wrong person I replied to, Eitri gave the link.

Bernie.8674:

You’re missing the point that this is a serious impediment to the new player experience. […]
The goal of the trait system was ostensibly to make the new player experience more engaging, and it has done the exact opposite.

The Trait changes have got nothing to do with the NPE – they were introduced in april, the NPE in september. Back in april no one ever spoke of making this game “easier” for new players. The official explanation was to make leveling between level 30 and 60? more exciting.

Azhure.1857:

Surprise surprise – after two years we still find people dying in mass at events that are so bloody easy and predictable. What does that say about the state of the game and its current meta?

I like skilled players that wear Berserker gear and know how to fight but stay alive too. Unfortunately so many are favoring the gear type and DPS heavy builds without care. As I’ve said in previous posts — there is no fear of failure or death. Just max your DPS – get your taps in – then sit back and watch a movie.

I sound like an absolute troll these days when I express my distaste for the dead in game. I no longer go out of my way to revive people. Which is so incredibly sad…. I used to all the time. I’d drop what I was doing and rush over. Now, unless you’re a friend or guildie, I don’t give a kitten. How tired I am… I wish I could take pity on the dead or dying again. I wish I could think that they weren’t most likely glassy and not caring if they got killed… But I just can’t do that anymore.

It isn’t just a Meta: Zerk issue here. The combat mechanic and enemy AI are responsible for creating this mess.

Well that does say that most people haven’t figured out the mechanics – and didn’t you say this game is dumbed down? Welcome to the discrepance of new and veteran players. But most people take advise actually.
BTW: I went zerkers when I was a new player as well, not because I knew of the “meta” but because the stats sounded best.

spoj.9672:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

Taku.6352:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Alright, but I still mean a whole dungeon, not just one part of it =) Thanks though.

Is like this video, just takes longer.
Do you think that dodging/evading takes less skill than simply dpsing ?
So giving up passive defense to do more dmg is less skilled ?
Also, do you think soloing in rabids (f.e.) takes also more skill than in berserker ?

Allow me a question; did you ever solo a dungeon?

I love how people just think that zerkers just autoattack in their solos. Get deeper in the materia and then we can continue discussing.

Have you ever soloed a dungeon or soloed a dungeon in soldiers?
You do’t seem to read what I write, here again: If you don’t dish out max damage you’ll likely get in troubles with your cooldown or with tiny mistakes or things you can’t avoid. So to me everybody who’s able to solo an entire dungeon in soldier’s is more skilled than someone who does that in zerker’s – just read the stuff I wrote, maybe you’ll get my poiint of view and where I’m coming from.
Btw: If soldier’s were easier there would be more soldier’s videos than zerkers and I always see zerker’s.

Thats simply not true. Think about why people record videos of them playing. And then look at your last comment again.

People solo in berserkers because they have already learnt to solo. Most people learn to solo after they already accept the meta. Noone is going to solo a dungeon with gear that takes twice as long when they can do it in berserker. And people who record solos tend to only upload the runs they are proud of. So obviously they arent going to upload their first solo where they tried various things and wiped several times. With that in mind its fairly obvious why most videos demonstrate smooth runs with the most efficient builds and gear for solos.

Like I said before. Defensive gear is easier. But the endurance of maintaining your active defence is the hardest part of learning to solo. Once you have that down the gear makes no difference other than kill time. But if you arent consistant then defensive gear is obviously going to be easier. Cool downs dont come into play at all. Most bosses cannot be solo’d that fast even in berserker gear. So repeatable management of active defence is important no matter what gear you use.

I guess they record it to show they’re able to solo it. Beating anyones best time came afterwards – so there should be some ancient soldier’s gear videos around if it were that much easier in it – or if not, you guys really should make some – no matter how long it takes as I bet a lot of people would love to be able to solo dungeons, no matter how long it takes them – best way to avoid the zerker meta.

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

Taku.6352:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Alright, but I still mean a whole dungeon, not just one part of it =) Thanks though.

Is like this video, just takes longer.
Do you think that dodging/evading takes less skill than simply dpsing ?
So giving up passive defense to do more dmg is less skilled ?
Also, do you think soloing in rabids (f.e.) takes also more skill than in berserker ?

Allow me a question; did you ever solo a dungeon?

I love how people just think that zerkers just autoattack in their solos. Get deeper in the materia and then we can continue discussing.

Have you ever soloed a dungeon or soloed a dungeon in soldiers?
You do’t seem to read what I write, here again: If you don’t dish out max damage you’ll likely get in troubles with your cooldown or with tiny mistakes or things you can’t avoid. So to me everybody who’s able to solo an entire dungeon in soldier’s is more skilled than someone who does that in zerker’s – just read the stuff I wrote, maybe you’ll get my poiint of view and where I’m coming from.
Btw: If soldier’s were easier there would be more soldier’s videos than zerkers and I always see zerker’s.

maha.7902:

Jana.6831:

RemiRome.8495:

Jana.6831:

I have never seen a video of someone soloing a dungeon without zerker gear*. Search for solo dungeon videos – they all need the damage.

Not true. You have never seen it because most folks don’t have their own private server hall for storage of footage.

So? Don’t just pick one sentence of what I wrote and make a statement on that. And if people doing dungeons in soldiers or whatever gear they really should bring some videos to prove “the meta” wrong. I mean that, btw. And yes, I think soloing a dungeon in soldier’s or whatever tanky gear requires more skill than doing it in zerkers.

Edit: And by that I don’t just mean one fragment of the dungeon but the whole thing.

If you stick on a condition build for two of the bosses in Arah path 2, you will actually get superior kill times to using a direct damage build.

I haven’t got a full run of it because that would involve actually playing the game and wasting my time resetting to get a clean recording, but I can imagine it’s perfectly possible to solo the entire path in decent time if you used conditions on everything.

If you think soloing a dungeon in soldier’s takes more skill, I don’t even know what to say. Does forcing yourself to stay awake longer = more skill? Like, it’ll either let you mess up more and make more mistakes, or you’ll have everything down perfectly and you’re just doing the same fight but for 3x as long and dodging everything perfectly.

Mymy, I seem to have started something with my personal opinion.
Alright: Not every condi gear is tanky, I spoke of soldier’s or other tanky gear, not condi gear. We can though, if you like.
I solo towers in wvw with my condi and with my zerker thief. I’m lagging pretty bad at the moment, so my CnD misses more often than it hits, so I can’t really tell whether or not it’s easier with my D/D zerker/valk power thief, or my P/D dire condi thief. The problem I have in both cases is that if I don’t kill fast enough the adds respawn and that my skills are on cooldown. I know that mobs don’t respawn in dungeons, but the skill cooldown stays the same – so the faster you kill stuff the less problems you have with cooldowns. Well, and with all three teams in wvw who all want that tower.

Taku.6352:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Alright, but I still mean a whole dungeon, not just one part of it =) Thanks though.

GrimmR.3541:

Jana.6831:

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Azhure.1857:

Jana.6831:

Making boss mechanics harder would mean that those new to dungeons wouln’t stand a chance. My first words after my noob guild and I were wiped when we stepped into a dungeon were “And people really have fun doing this?”.

Anything new that players try and have no experience in should be challenging in some way. Because its NEW. You learn and adapt. I’m not a fan of dumbing down the game for “new players”. It hurts me to see ArenaNet devs use that excuse.

I remember my first few dungeons. We usually finished the dungeon with completely broken armor and were left naked. It was long. It was difficult. But all of us had fun doing it. There were laughs. Then we did it again and again until we got faster (and kept our clothes on). Why is the idea of learning from past encounters so horrible?

Dumb this game down anymore and everything will be “just afk and press 1”. Sad that most of it already is.

You can only do dungeons (successfully) in this game if you have read about that dungeon or have a very experienced player in your group who explains you stuff. You can do the story yet the explorable mode is completely different, there’s no learning how to do it by doing it – in my opinion.
We had broken armor but hadn’t had that much fun because we felt like bad players and we had to leave dungeons more than once because we just couldn’t finish them (and were frustrated).
I had a nooby friend in this game (lvl 80 necro, was really good in open PvE). She came to the queens gauntlet and tried the first opponent and failed because she couldn’t figure out that the hammer swing was really bad. So I tried to encourage her to try again and wanted to explain how it works – she blocked, said she was a bad player, left and left the game forever.
There’s more to it, would be a whole new discussion whether or not this game is dumbed down.

GrimmR.3541:

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

Azhure.1857:

I’m in agreement with you there. Dungeon runs are so cheesy the way they are now.
But I also think the Zerk Meta needs to be addressed. I’m not saying it should be destroyed — Zerk will always have a place. Unfortunately, no matter how much you all yell and scream that we can play “how we want”, it is really hard to do some times with the current “Go Zerk or GTFO” mentality.

But with damage being the only thing rewarded and most encounters being so bloody easy that even those players that are multi-tasking other things outside of the game can get by without blinking — I don’t see it changing. Its a sad thing.

Yes, the zerker “elitism” is annoying, but there’s also tanky elitism.
Making mobs not wothy of skipping is good, but it doesn’t really matter one way or the other.
Making boss mechanics harder would mean that those new to dungeons wouln’t stand a chance. My first words after my noob guild and I were wiped when we stepped into a dungeon were “And people really have fun doing this?”.
Making bosses so that only condi could harm them would create some kind of trinity.

Just because there are groups advertised as “Zerkers only” doesn’t mean you have to join them or there are no other groups. I did dungeons with my necro (full zerker) and with my thief (valk and zerker) and have never been asked to ping my gear and I have never been kicked with these two toons, but I never joined a party advertised as “full zerk”. And I didn’t wait for ages for a party suiting me. So, to me this endless discussion is some kind of made up drama.
And I actually encountered tons of zerkers in wvw lately and wondered if zerker gets the new meta in wvw as well “Kill it before it can kill you” – and that is a result of the crit nerf back in april. So, if you nerf it further I wonder what will happen.

RemiRome.8495:

Jana.6831:

I have never seen a video of someone soloing a dungeon without zerker gear*. Search for solo dungeon videos – they all need the damage.

Not true. You have never seen it because most folks don’t have their own private server hall for storage of footage.

So? Don’t just pick one sentence of what I wrote and make a statement on that. And if people doing dungeons in soldiers or whatever gear they really should bring some videos to prove “the meta” wrong. I mean that, btw. And yes, I think soloing a dungeon in soldier’s or whatever tanky gear requires more skill than doing it in zerkers.

Edit: And by that I don’t just mean one fragment of the dungeon but the whole thing.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Jana.6831:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

You said it right there. Soloers. Because it is impossible for a single player to put out the sheer amount of damage to quickly kill a dungeon enemy, survivability becomes much more important.

You need to put out as much damage as possible to be able to solo dungeon bosses as you need to kill them before they can kill you = avoid as many of their attacks as possible.

While true, a single player cannot put out the damage required to kill a boss before you run out of dodges (aside from thieves). Thus, building more defensively becomes optimal because those stats matter.

I have never seen a video of someone soloing a dungeon without zerker gear*. Search for solo dungeon videos – they all need the damage.

.* Not saying it doesn’t exist since I haven’t watched that many solo dungeon videos and I’m mostly interested in thief anyway. Have watched some warriors soloing dungeons though – also full zerker.

Edit: And this game is designed for 2 dodges being enough. if people dodge randomly (like me at times) it’s their bad.

frifox.5283:

Jana.6831:

Ok, sorry path 3. I only found one mesmer soloing path 3 and I don’t really get what he was doing – he switched to the human heal skill which doesn’t seem to have that much advantage, that was all. No idea what build he was running. So – maybe mesmers can do it as well with or without clerics

A mesmer can solo it naked, without any healing skills.

Nice, so that’s why they never show up in any LFG pugs, right?

Edit: Right, didn’t see the portal for some reason. But glad we talked this lengthy about it!

Taku.6352:

Path 2 doesn’t have orbs. Only paths 3/4. Also mesmers don’t need cleric’s to make it.

Ok, sorry path 3. I only found one mesmer soloing path 3 and I don’t really get what he was doing – he switched to the human heal skill which doesn’t seem to have that much advantage, that was all. No idea what build he was running. So – maybe mesmers can do it as well with or without clerics, I don’t know too much about mesmers – and the same goes for

Neither do warriors (with perfect execution).

warriors.
Just wanted to point out that clerics could be only usuful for certain classes during the orb thingy but that doesn’t mean that they don’t run the rest in zerker’s, which they likely do (as I said the mesmer didn’t post anything about his build)(and I haven’t watched any warrior paths 3’s, yet. I just know that the teleports help thieves and they have got a lot of them).

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Elite Arah soloers use cleric’s gear to solo orbs!

If they’re not thieves, yes. But it’s only one aspect of path 2, every other part is done in zerkers. Because:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

You said it right there. Soloers. Because it is impossible for a single player to put out the sheer amount of damage to quickly kill a dungeon enemy, survivability becomes much more important.

You need to put out as much damage as possible to be able to solo dungeon bosses as you need to kill them before they can kill you = avoid as many of their attacks as possible.

Amonatory.2453:

Once I stepped out of SA, I never want to go back to it. SA for me was just to easy, and I stopped finding it fun. I run full glass in wvw now with all the SPvP builds, makes for much more skillful and entertaining gameplay IMO.

Well, you’re a S/D thief, you have condi removal on your set are also hard to predict due to teleports and the general style of S/D.
To me S/D is the exact opposite of D/D. To me D/D is raw fight – no utilities, just strategy. And one can’t really evade conditions when relying on CnD. If people can make it work – good for them, but there’s also might stacking in that line and I don’t want to miss that.
Edit: And S/D probably wouldn’t work without & in trickery anyway. If you were talking about D/D then sorry and: bring on some videos (I love D/D videos anyway).

Pockethole.5031:

i’m new and i’m curious about thief because almost everyone seem to have a problem with it, right now i’m level 10, i have dagger in my main hand and pistol in off hand, i challenged myself with a wolf boss in human area.
i kept failing until i used shadow shot (button 3) all the time.

then looking at head shot (4), it’s useless. why it’s there, if we have (3)?
that’s not right!

the other skills are okay.

but to me right now it looks like using the right skill at right moment… is how this profession works…
1v1 button 3 seems good.

so, thief = situational adjustments is success
is this so? still what is that head shot there for? the way it functions seems to be only useful in maybe pvp for someone ranged attacker, that aside, why?

Headshot is to interrupt your opponent. Not so important in PvE (except for the Risen Subjugator) but in wvw and pvp. So, imagine you are against another D/P thief and want to use your #3 skill, he uses headshot and you can’t use #3 and have wasted initative on it.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Though if it was a trolling thief, no wonder you couldn’t kill him. I’ve met a few trolling thieves, they’ll do no damage because they’re just messing with you, making you run after them to have some fun. They don’t really contribute anything, and are nigh unkillable in return. If that’s the type you were fighting, you’re fine.

They can contribute – we’ve had one trolling us for hours and keeping out keep contested – so our WP was useless. I trolled someone who was chasing me so my group could build catas and destroy the wall right next to him.
But yeah, if a thief decides to troll you there’s not much you can do. Other than AoE/CC.
Edit: And the thief in this example apperantly killed the yaks, so he did contribute to his team. But if it’s any comfort: We’ve had a warrior doing that to us – we were 10 man chasing that guy in the end.

Stand The Wall.6987:

They shouldnt even be allowed in wvw. There is enough clutter and lag as is.

I just love it when I meet a mesmer or thief with a mini – good thing you invested that much in stealth just to have a mini follow you.

Bandit.8279:

But for build testing the best place to do that is sPvP. I understand that will still alienate the non-pvpers though.

PvP also has got completely different mechanics, the damage is calculated differently, one has got only the amulet as a trinket, no gear and one fights other players. Fighting npcs is actually different. And there’s more to a build than just traits, so people who have tested their traits in pvp might still be bummed when they want to try it in pve. And well it’s kind of mean to send new players straight to pvp as that’s somewhat harder than pve.

I’m serious though: I’d love to know how many new players have unlocked how many traits and how they chose their builds. I’d also love to know how many veterans who play either “high level” pve or wvw stick to their old characters because of the trait changes.

Bandit.8279:

Veteran here and after leveling two new alts to lvl 80 I think the idea of unlocking traits via events is just fine. Hop around the world and get the “must have” traits and it was even cool seeing parts of Tyria I haven’t been to in a while.

If you feel lazy or whatever just pay up. The only real complaint I see is that some of the required events are pretty difficult like the champ grub in WvW. So maybe some tweaking is in order. In GW1 we had to hunt down champs to learn their elite. Fun stuff.

The real problem with traits is that they have little to no use until level 80. I honestly don’t pay them much attention until then.

I’m a wvw player, I don’t like PvE that much that all I do is running around exploring. Just pay up is easier said than done as it’s pretty costly – gearing new characters is anyway.

BlkPrince.2854:

snip

Yeah, my friends left too again, after creating new alts.
But sometimes I wonder if it’s me and the trait changes aren’t so bad as I think they are – maybe because all there is is this thread. But although I have all but 3 traits unlocked on one of my characters I just can’t bring myself to do it for another character for which I wanted a new build – she has to stick to her old build – I just can’t.

BlkPrince.2854:

I guess this topic didn’t get enough coverage from the gaming media like the gems conversion ui change, and its most likely due to the fact not many people tried out the new player experience, I only recently deleted one of my characters just recently to try see if it was really true that you only get one trait and were forced to unlock each trait by doing crazy amount of tasks turns out its true.. on a side note didnt like how you had to level to unlock weapon skills but to me it was nothing a level 20 scroll couldnt fix but really miss the old way of unlocking weapon skills.

The trait changes have got nothing to do with the new player experience.
See, you noticed it 6-7 months afterwards yourself and that’s maybe what the problem is – people didn’t realize the changes – so no outcry, no nothing until it was “too late”.

Edit: The traits were changed in april, no one was talking about making the life easier for new players back then. The NPE has been introduced in september.

SlayerGT.6805:

The immortality of story npcs is actually the #1 indicator that there’s a problem. Why do they have to be immortal? Back in the Personal Story, Trahearne and everyone else could die.

Trahearne has been a bit sturdier when I first played the personal story, I think. In the end that sturdy that people from my server claimed he’s immortal. That brought me to watch him (die and make screenshots of it – well and laugh at him) – he doesn’t know that red circles are bad for him – no npc knows that and maybe that’s the reason newer npcs are immortal. But: I don’t really like personal or living stories, so I’ve already forgotten whether or not there’s a lot of red circles in LS2

AlliedKhajiit.2794:

If you honestly believe all PvE is, is smashing 1 and hoping for loot bags, then I’m sorry, but that’s not at all how it works.

You obviously don’t get my point – so I leave it at that.

I’m a PvE player myself, I didn’t stumble into this game and started with WvW right away.
I actually started when doing map completion and met the best commander I’ve ever seen – and I’ve seen a lot since.

Yeah, I’m not saying that there wasn’t a bit of QQ in that complain (don’t ask me to write anything about necros, that would be QQ overload) – I just wanted to say that my explanation from a few days ago was partly incorrect.

AlliedKhajiit.2794:

Well if I remember correctly, the justification they gave for changing the traits was “for the new players”, so to me, that equates to the “new player experience”, because it’s not the same experience I had when I played my first character.

No:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/traits-unleashed-forty-new-traits-and-more/

Has got nothing to do with new players.

AlliedKhajiit.2794:

The level 20 scroll doesn’t unlock all your traits, which is what most people complain about, and have a good reason to. I won’t make an alt unless I have a lv 20 scroll and like 100 scrolls of knowledge, simply because I can’t be kittened to do all the incessant tasks required to unlock traits.

The trait unlocks were changed back in april, the NPE has been introduced in september.

I’ve been wrong concerning the krait runes – I forgot about their elite and just remembered it today when running around with my condi thief who happens to have krait runes. So, the 6th skill is triggered every time one’s elite skill is used – basilisk venom, fe. I don’t know enough about other classes to say whether that’s extremely unfair or if these runes are simply rather mean (I like them, btw, my necro uses them as well).

It’s Trahearne =)
I saw a spledid looking sylvari engineer the other day but it would be no look for Trahearne. He’s fine as he is.

RiverSong.5067:

I was running Edge Of The Mist for fragments to complete my armors (which i did, yay), and i came across something new to me. We got farmed. It became obvious anywhere the train went, there would be a zerg there waiting for us. People explained it thinking there was a spy doing this to annoy people.

While this is bad karma and you’ll go to hell for it, not much can be done about it. I’m just wondering, does he get anything out of this? Besides annoyed peoples? And is it common?

Well, as someone pointed out in a similar thread the other day – that’s how WvW is and EotM is a WvW map. PvE players made it their karma and badge train but it was no PvE map to start with.

Edit: And it doesn’t need a spy to predict where a zerg is headed.

If thieves would lose targeting which isn’t really the case (Necros, Rangers, Mesmers).
The current “meta” is S/D with no or 2 points in SA, so a lot of thieves are already running without stealth and without SR.

AlliedKhajiit.2794:

This is a pretty insane statement to make, and it’s not related to the topic at all.
How are people who mostly do PvE just getting everything handed to them and not having to work towards any goals?

OT:
Agreed with the map completion. I don’t think WvW should count towards world completion and it’s the sole reason I haven’t done world completion more than once. It’s just silly, really.

Well, I answered to your asumption that it would be worse for wvw players to do the PvE part of map completion – but guess what no wvw player ever complains about it. It’s only the odd argument someone throws in whenever another thread like this pops up (once every other week). And why don’t wvw-players complain? Because they’ve been PvE players themselves and because you have to work in wvw to achieve something the work isn’t just smashing 1 and hoping for bags, although people who don’t know real wvw think that’s how it works. So, we do the part we don’t like to get what we want to have – like me killing the Hyleks every half an hour for the past 3,5 months. In return I get an awesome fight for a T3 tower like the one I’m just coming from.

Well, don’t know if that what I want for my male thief would be classified as “skimpy”, but I’d love a tank top, longsleeve and fingerless gloves and maybe some combat boots – well in fact I would love to be able to make characters look like Brandon Lee in the Crow. So to me not “skimpy” but “cool” ;)

Edit: Minus the trenchcoat (and makeup)

Imarion.1650:

Yeah I know for WvWer who have to do pve to get their map completion it is even worse. This proves even more the “non-sense” aspect.

No, we wvwer usually know that we have to work for our goals.

Brian.1025:

Well if it’s minimal then I’m not sure if there’s any point in having 3k+ gold lol

:)

(yay, I helped you ;))

I don’t know the maths, I just know that the difference is only minimal. I just googled and found a thread from last year which is kind of outdated because of the crit nerf back in april. Better ask someone else for the exact numbers – I just know that I was doing nearly as good as now (ascended with strength runes) with my exotic with ruby orbs. And if you need the infusions for high level fractals you can buy or craft x-1 agony restistance infusions, so a few slots for that would be enough = weapons or trinkets.

Edit: To explain: I’m an online messi – I usually don’t sell anything unless I have tons of it. So I had all the material and was bored, otherwise I wouldn’t have ascended armor.

Edit²: http://dulfy.net/2013/12/12/gw2-ascended-armor-stats/
Also from last year but with clear numbers which still should be accurate =)

Brian.1025:

Still can’t decide :[

Well – 1) we can’t help you anymore than we did, 2) you will be unhappy no matter how you decide ;) – glad not to be in your shoes.

Yeah, during the second fight I see it. Thanks for the videos.

See I thought that was a great fight, someone from the third team likely saw nothing (if present) and most people facing a thief run off to the forums to complain about stealth.

Edit (quite a while after) : The D/P thief also has a quip, so the animation of quip has been replaced by dancing dagger which has got no place in this weaponset – so it’s clearly a bug, Did you guys try it with a D/D thief with only Incinerator main hand?

Makes no sense actually as Incinerator has got nothing to do with shadow shot – my bet would be it’s a bug as right now it would mean that quip wouldn’t have any animation at all if equipped offhand – and I should really find an opponent with an incinerator to test it.

Edit: Was that someone from another server?
Edit²: Or find an opponent to test it on – easier said than done..

mango.9267:

For example, dancing dagger and shadow shot are pretty hard to see in group fights, but with incinerator, you’re throwing a flaming dagger that basically screams “dodge me”.

Not with Incinerator main hand. Shadow shot depends on the pistol alone.

@OP:
First exotic my thief found was Spark. Crafted Incinerator, took me half a year actually because I have a problem with doing dungeons and well I wasn’t really in a hurry. So – wherefor would I need the gold? For nothing, so I kept it. I don’t regret it.

Someone help me: What’s the point of this thread? That the OP hates thief if s/he’s not a thief him/herself?

Mystic.5934:

Jana.6831:

I have 15 stacks of blade shards

at best, they will bring back that blade shard vendor and those will be worth 1 green item per 100 blade shards = 37 green items for 15 stacks. Just laying that out for you to decide if that bank space is worth ~74s.

ascended mats, on the other hand, have no known value. Some uses of it make it very valuable.

the annoying part is that they will keep using the “but there are massive amounts in people’s banks” as a reason not to add something to do with it, but it’s not going anywhere and will only get bigger. They should of had something more from the start, and adding it now would have the same affect as if they had it to begin with. Stop stalling!

Well, there’s a new backpiece coming out with every recent update and preparing that backpiece takes at least 10 bank slots as all of the materials aren’t recognized as crafting materials. I still haven’t decided which one I want to get, so that’s why my slots are overfilled with crap and that’s what annoys me.
Bloodstone dust can be fed to mawdrey 2, imperial fragments are crafting materials for maize balm (not that it is wise to craft that but they get a use and who knows what other use the other stuff will get) – and since one needs so many of these materials to craft one next tier material it’s filling up everything. And that’s what annoys me, plus of course all the mats not recognized as mats.

Edit: Spelling

I agree, this is a problem for me as well, my storage is overfilled with stuff of which I have no idea if I’ll ever need it and there’s more and more stuff coming each day, I have 15 stacks of blade shards, destroyed about 20 stacks already, I still have 10 items alone to craft mawdrey, then I have stuff from the silverwastes to unlock stuff, then I have stuff from drytops to unlock stuff, then I have 20 stacks of dragonite, bloodstone, fragments each – of which I have no idea if they’ll ever be useful again. Even if I had limitless storage, it’s getting really confusing as I carry so much “junk” with me. Please don’t – keep things simple.

AdaephonDelat.3890:

Jana.6831:

Offair.2563:

If Shakespear played this game and saw this thread he probably replied with:

“Whats in a name”

See, and I was certain he would’ve loved to be called Shakespeare.

Nah he’d drop the E so he didn’t give the game away with his screen name

Truly a smart guy!

Offair.2563:

If Shakespear played this game and saw this thread he probably replied with:

“Whats in a name”

See, and I was certain he would’ve loved to be called Shakespeare.

VladeKR.9851:

Jana.6831:

So now you want to nerf their name? :o

;)

Clearly a person who doesn’t understand the nature of the post. You call my question a demand for “nerf”? Dear god…

Clearly a person who doesn’t understand “;)” =)

So now you want to nerf their name? :o

;)

Narcarsis.5739:

My thief is from Tron, much better than T3.
Most fashionable teef.

A hipster teef!
We need more clothes for thieves – not you, you’re good =)