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A comprehensive list of thoughts for WvW

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

When was the last time you saw anyone stay alive on a oil pot or cannon. Traditionally these things would be further back as to limit how much could be rained down on them.
In game it would be nice if both got the iron hide bonus & oil pots were moved back slightly.

Oil mastery actually protects the person on it. It also reflects projectiles which is rather nice. Overall the mastery is really good, I don’t have anything to add to it. Cannons are a different story – they were fine before siege disablers, now they need a buff.

A comprehensive list of thoughts for WvW

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Just had to comment on this. Don’t tell people they do not know about the game and then post wrong info. The wvw dev team stopped centaurs from causing Argo in nwc on borderlands. If you watch they go in and nothing gets agro’d. Same thing with the skritt. They do not even stop capping from occurring anymore.. It is a valid question as town at purpose they were envisioned to do. As it stand probably 25-30 of the map is useless and no one goes to i.e. Northwest and northeast.

I already said that I’m not entirely sure but I am pretty sure that they caused white swords when they attacked while I was still in one of our camps. So not really sure what you’re accusing me of

ETA: I agree that I was rather mean, but I feel it’s sometimes neccessary as all people seem to think is “wvw = zerg” and that leads to botched mechanisms to split the zerg which makes the life for existing roamers a lot harder, like the no white sword thingy. Balancing wvw is really difficult so seeing only one side or trying to split the zerg at all costs is, well, one sided as in the end people will do what they want to do (zerg, guild roaming, solo roaming) and in EU and NA bronze/silver tier they are actually doing exactly that. And I’m pretty sure that even in gold tier servers there are a lot of roamers, people just don’t realize it, for whatever reason.
I would buff the damage siege can take but that would also mean that the server with a smaller “zerg” would have more problems to take it out, but maybe still not a bad idea, at least when it comes to ACs and cannons. Buffing outnumbered servers with something meaningful would mean that a 1 vs 1 would be really unfair, buffing keeps would mean that an enemy server with a bigger population could easily take your garrison and leave you no chance to retake it (don’t ask me how many times hills has been taken from us only to be upgraded with a WP. The last time it took two days to get it back and I think the other server I had been on didn’t have it for a whole week). So, I hope you get my point.

(edited by Jana.6831)

A comprehensive list of thoughts for WvW

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

3.) I never understood why enemies started off with a tower and a camp in your own borderlands. It is YOUR map. Enemies should start with nothing and have to fight their way into it. Also, why do enemies get siegerazor? That doesn’t make any sense either. You are attacking an enemy borderlands. There’s no siege to raze.

Alright, now imagine your server is really struggeling to get/hold any PPT, would Siegerazer then be okay? It would and that’s when he’s actually used, those who have big zergs usually don’t bother with him. Don’t only see the “But the weaker server must be able to defend better” side, see also that the “bigger server” would also have the same mechanics.

6.) Make upgrades mean something. And if it makes a building that much more difficult to take, make them cost more and take longer. Currently most upgrades are useless. Fortified walls help, if you can get there. Reinforced gates are a joke. And adding more veterans that die in a blink of an eye don’t help at all. Camp upgrades are even more useless. The only decent camp upgrade is double doly’s – the rest are just plain stupid, since they still can get flipped in seconds.

I’m running solo, it takes a while until I have capped a 250 camp and sometimes I can’t, so having a camp at 200 or 250 means that a single roamer will have huge problems to take that camp, even 2 people will struggle to get it if they’re not that good. By upgrading camps to 200+ you cut the risk of it being taken “dramatically”. Same applies to towers if there’s additional personell and one human defending small groups will struggle. Same goes for even reinforced walls although fortified is a lot worse, that’s true. But reinforced stuff gives time to alert people in mapchat and they will have a better chance to be there to defend in time.

7.) I think each tower or keep should have more than one area you have to capture, and not just a giant blob rush through the gate and to the useless keep lord. That way the zerg is forced to split up. Also, keep lords and NPC guards should be somewhat difficult to kill, not just free loot bags.

They actually are not that easy to kill if you’re not in a giant blob. And if there are defenders you better get out the cannon, oil, turrets and acs before you rush in.

10.) If you won’t change the fact that classes can cast spells on top of walls, pretty much negating cannons, oil and even where AC’s can get placed, then defenders on top of the wall should have increased defense and offense. They have the height advantage – this just makes simple sense.

You have a nice buff with oil mastery. But I agree that they must have buffed ele some time ago (9 months or so – I still have no ele, so I don’t know for sure) and since then there’s basically no safe place for siege anymore, would be nice if anet took that into account when increasing the range of classes.

12.) I don’t understand the skritt or centaur areas in the borderlands. Why not actually have them do something, like be mercenary camps you can capture or something. Instead of having them just run to a camp, have them send out patrols that are marked on the map.

Pretty sure they had their purpose when there was still white swords around – attacking a camp so they would have white swords – but since I’m mostly in EB or capping camps on enemy borderlands I’m not entirely sure.

It seems as if you don’t know too much about wvw, no offense, so maybe think about your suggestions some more? Or move to a lower tier server and do some stuff in a small group or on your own.

(edited by Jana.6831)

Latency/Lag for EU Players? [merged]

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Not exactly. Using a VPN will fix the problem for some people, but not for everyone. It depends on where you and the VPN are located and if a bad network or throttling is the problem.

That was what I was getting at as you made it sound as if VPN was the solution to everybody’s problem while there were already a lot of log files which showed that the internet connection of most users wasn’t the problem and/or wasn’t the only problem.

Your sample size of 25 packets isn’t really a good example, but…

Alright, let’s stop here – if you still haven’t gotten my point you never will.
Btw I made a test with 100 packets as requested in this thread – the outcome was the same.

People who are using a VPN or mobile internet connections have already proven that the servers are not the problem. WildStar is experiencing the same problems and an equivalent thread over there can be found. Many more WildStar players have confirmed that using a VPN fixes the problem and considering the game is more action/mobile, I doubt they wouldn’t be able detect lag.

No, they haven’t, they just said it was better. If their internet connection had some throttles it might be better than before. That was why I was asking for logs.

(edited by Jana.6831)

Latency/Lag for EU Players? [merged]

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

snip

Ok, so you’re basically the same opinion like me and we can erase your “Guys, it’s that simple, get WTFast! It’s your connection!”, right? Btw: I posted you a log of mine, to show you that not only telia is the problem. And I have lag 24/7, it only gets worse during the evening, maybe because more people are logging in. A lot of people might not realize that they are lagging thus think that everything is fine until the evening – it isn’t.
I’m not blaming anet by the way, I just wanted to point out that there is nothing we gamers can do. WTFast and other programms might help if the connection is bad in general, but they won’t solve the ncsoft problems.

Latency/Lag for EU Players? [merged]

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

I wonder how this programm can help when the problem are the endservers – genuine request btw.

A VPN can only change the route you take to the servers. Your start and endpoint will always be the same. Simply put, it’s not the servers that are the problem, but your connection to them.

The reason using a VPN may help is because it can allow you to go around whatever route is causing the problem, or if GW2 is being throttled, it will hide it from detection. What VPN will work for you is dependent on your location and its location since you need to find the right detour to the servers.

Posting before and after tracerts to show the route of the VPN without lag would help identify the problem on that specific route however.

Let’s say my computer is a server and it’s beeing throttled by some malicous trolls: Everybody who wants to have access to it will have problems. It doesn’t matter whether or not the person is “undeteced” or if the route is led through different points before that. So how can people claim that these programms solved their problem?
There are plenty of connection logs in this thread – the throttles are almost always the same. I can imagine that these programs can change the path inbetween, but they can’t change how overworked “my server” is.

Latency/Lag for EU Players? [merged]

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Could those with WTFast post some connection logs? I wonder how this programm can help when the problem are the endservers – genuine request btw.

Latency/Lag for EU Players? [merged]

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

snip

I’m having 2 connections to gw2 for whatever reason, one is via alter.net, one via telia. The alter net connection is pretty fluid, the connection via telia isn’t. In both cases there’s a throttle at ncsoft. That is a log from the port 443 thingy.
Believe me: If that was my problem I would and could solve it, but I can’t as the ncsoft servers are out of my reach. Not saying you don’t have a point as I can imagine that solving this is more complicated than we think, but those who say it’s not their connection do have a point.

Berechnung der Statistiken dauert ca. 68 Sekunden…
Quelle zum Abs. Knoten/Verbindung
Abs. Zeit Verl./Ges.= % Verl./Ges.= % Adresse
0 My PC [My IP]
0/ 25 = 0% |
1 5ms 0/ 25 = 0% 0/ 25 = 0% FRITZ-NAS [My IP]
0/ 25 = 0% |
2 19ms 0/ 25 = 0% 0/ 25 = 0% dslb-088-071-000-001.088.071.pools.vodafone-ip.de [My Internet]
1/ 25 = 4% |
3 20ms 1/ 25 = 4% 0/ 25 = 0% 88.79.30.189
0/ 25 = 0% |
4 21ms 1/ 25 = 4% 0/ 25 = 0% 92.79.212.113
0/ 25 = 0% |
5 30ms 1/ 25 = 4% 0/ 25 = 0% 92.79.213.126
0/ 25 = 0% |
6 33ms 2/ 25 = 8% 1/ 25 = 4% ge-1-0-1.BR1.FFT1.alter.net [146.188.112.149]
0/ 25 = 0% |
7 40ms 3/ 25 = 12% 2/ 25 = 8% ae5.XT2.FFT1.ALTER.NET [146.188.6.105]
0/ 25 = 0% |
8 31ms 1/ 25 = 4% 0/ 25 = 0% ae1.GW8.FFT4.ALTER.NET [149.227.16.54]
1/ 25 = 4% |
9 33ms 2/ 25 = 8% 0/ 25 = 0% 213.71.135.138
0/ 25 = 0% |
10 —- 25/ 25 =100% 23/ 25 = 92% 206-127-157-86.ncsoft.com [206.127.157.86]
0/ 25 = 0% |
11 32ms 2/ 25 = 8% 0/ 25 = 0% 206-127-158-1.ncsoft.com [206.127.158.1]

Ablaufverfolgung beendet.
—> pathping -w 500 -q 25 -4 64.25.39.1 <--

Berechnung der Statistiken dauert ca. 81 Sekunden…
Quelle zum Abs. Knoten/Verbindung
Abs. Zeit Verl./Ges.= % Verl./Ges.= % Adresse
0 My PC [My IP]
0/ 25 = 0% |
1 6ms 1/ 25 = 4% 1/ 25 = 4% FRITZ-NAS [My IP]
0/ 25 = 0% |
2 21ms 1/ 25 = 4% 1/ 25 = 4% dslb-088-071-000-001.088.071.pools.vodafone-ip.de [My Internet]
0/ 25 = 0% |
3 19ms 1/ 25 = 4% 1/ 25 = 4% 88.79.30.193
0/ 25 = 0% |
4 22ms 1/ 25 = 4% 1/ 25 = 4% 92.79.212.117
0/ 25 = 0% |
5 26ms 2/ 25 = 8% 2/ 25 = 8% 92.79.211.210
0/ 25 = 0% |
6 33ms 1/ 25 = 4% 1/ 25 = 4% hbg-b1-link.telia.net [213.248.75.217]
0/ 25 = 0% |
7 25ms 0/ 25 = 0% 0/ 25 = 0% hbg-bb4-link.telia.net [213.155.135.88]
6/ 25 = 24% |
8 118ms 6/ 25 = 24% 0/ 25 = 0% ash-bb4-link.telia.net [213.155.131.251]
1/ 25 = 4% |
9 148ms 7/ 25 = 28% 0/ 25 = 0% dls-b21-link.telia.net [62.115.137.47]
0/ 25 = 0% |
10 —- 25/ 25 =100% 18/ 25 = 72% ncsoft-ic-307708-dls-b21.c.telia.net.10.115.62.in-addr.arpa [62.115.10.106]
0/ 25 = 0% |
11 151ms 7/ 25 = 28% 0/ 25 = 0% 64.25.32-9.ncsoft.com [64.25.32.9]
1/ 25 = 4% |
12 —- 25/ 25 =100% 17/ 25 = 68% 64.25.32-26.ncsoft.com [64.25.32.26]
0/ 25 = 0% |
13 153ms 8/ 25 = 32% 0/ 25 = 0% 64.25.33-1.ncsoft.com [64.25.39.1]

Ablaufverfolgung beendet.
Section completed in 114.47 seconds

Latency/Lag for EU Players? [merged]

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Am I the only one who thinks this is looking more and more like a sudden throttling issue affecting not all, but much of Europe? The issues all pop up around internet traffic primetimes. So which ISP are we gonna hunt down with our pitchforks and beat some sense into? That NCSoft-Telia server point pops up the most, so my vote goes to Telia.

Actually NCsoft pops up the most.

Removing White Sword : Good or Bad?

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

coverage and bigger wvw communities still only matters . nothing changed except the more flips and that wvw seems more like eotm now.

as for tries …. you are speaking to wrong person . i don t have a video but yesterday i flipped all enemies full upgraded camps alone and i upgraded and defend them with sieges all the times , but i assure you it was not fun to kill “noobs” ( the best “noob” trap camp is the north camp ) that was coming over and over . i didn’t have any challenge and some times i bored to death . during these flips the 82 level guards coming over and over for ages without anyone try to stop me …..

i did these flips only to troll this update and to send my message as player

That was what I did with the white swords, actually that’s what I’m always doing, except for the defending part which is about as exciting as sitting in a tower – it works with white swords as well, the only time I had some trouble soloing was when I was soloing towers as that takes too long. But since the constant EU lag is preventing my wvw play anyway, I won’t test whether or not the no white swords thingy makes any sense.

Removing White Sword : Good or Bad?

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

even with or without swords 5 men can not stop 10 men on omegas that want to take a t3 keep .

Just want to take a moment to say that you’re wrong. I have defended against a 12 omega rush on bay during the S2 tourney in the middle of the night with just myself and 2 others. All golems dead. This is before disablers. It’s not impossible, you just need a few people with functioning brains, cannons, ballistas, mortars, and maybe a treb or two. It wasn’t easy, but we did it. Omegas are not an insta-win. Although, they are more so now, since you won’t even know when they hit something if you’re not already in the structure.

True – I’ve killed 6 omegas within a minute because none of them cared for me and my cannon (well a ranger did but he died – after the golems). This was after the disablers and no golem has been disabled nor has my cannon. But not everybody is that stupid. So in a case people know how bad cannons are towards golems I wouldn’t have had a chance – and that happened pretty often actually as you can’t build siege fast enough with only one or two people and if the opponents know what to do you don’t stand a chance.

Latency/Lag for EU Players? [merged]

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

The problem is basically down to one or more of the routes to NCSoft’s datacenter. WildStar is also affected by this problem for example. Since everyone is not affected however, that rules out a problem with the actual servers.

I don’t think really got this but then again I’m no computer expert – A friend of mine insists that he has got no lag but he has. We’ve been in CoF the other day and all 5 of us lagged like crazy, we were unable to see the movements of the boss. Same (though not as bad or obvious) with every other dungeon we did and also in wvw, so I’m not so sure that “not everyone” is affected. I hoped that me going back to NA would solve it (I know stupid to even think it) but it doesn’t, I’m still lagging.

Edit: My point is that he thinks he has got no lag while he is lagging. He still insists his game is running smoothly.

No White Swords. Fights Dwindling.

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

So you’re volunteering yourself to sit in a tower hoping people will show up?

Thats what ive been doing on and off for over 2 years now,scouting is not new…You make rotations with other people on your server.

That isn’t scouting, that’s sitting in a tower. I scouted by running from tower to tower, starting with the ones having white swords. On my way to objectives I capped sentries, camps, frogs, moles and ogres. there’s no real indicator where to start now, so basically all I could do is sit in a tower. Unless, of course I’m finally in TS with my server to know who is at what point and does what and to be honest: I don’t really want to talk to them 24/7 or better: at all.

What's the way to go for D/D?

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Right, it’s line 2 – and no, Allandrir, I don’t cry ;)

What's the way to go for D/D?

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Jana.6831

You said you use 26600 as a build and can’t live without executioner which you can’t have, that’s why I wondered.

What's the way to go for D/D?

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

but I prefer 2/6/6/0/0 personally because that extra crit chance and ferocity + executioner is too hard for me to give up.

Maybe mug?
Executioner is trait XI line 1.

Latency/Lag for EU Players? [merged]

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

The tipp with the 443 gate seems to help a bit with the telia problem, but what’s with the connection to ncsoft? I’m still lagging – and actually lagging 24/7. Server: Miller’s Sound.

9 159ms 8/ 25 = 32% 1/ 25 = 4% dls-b21-link.telia.net [213.155.135.3]

10 163ms 10/ 25 = 40% 3/ 25 = 12% ncsoft-ic-307707-dls-b21.c.telia.net [213.248.102.146]

11 —- 25/ 25 =100% 18/ 25 = 72% 64.25.32-26.ncsoft.com [64.25.32.26]

12 158ms 7/ 25 = 28% 0/ 25 = 0% 64.25.33-1.ncsoft.com [64.25.39.1]

Edit: I’m usually only in wvw, so lags matter a lot to me – the few times I’m in pve I don’t notice any lag. But again, it wouldn’t be important to me if i were lagging in pve anyway, so maybe I just don’t notice, or maybe it’s only in wvw.

(edited by Jana.6831)

Theif vs ele

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

I think it depends on the player skill. If both players are mediocre i would place my money on the d/d ele, because it is more mistake tolerant.

But for really good players d/p should have the upper hand.

On the other hand, i’m watching Narcarsis right know, he is duelling a d/d ele and its 4:1 for the ele atm.

He’s currently using S/D, not D/P.
I once met a mediocre (D/D) ele on my D/D thief and the score was even. He actually waited every morning for me to duel him and we both cheered when I beat him ;)
But that was wvw.

6k Heartseeker - seriously?

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

It’s 5% more damage when maxed and treb does around 6,2k damage against T3 walls :P
And yeah, people complained about at least ACs and they have been nerfed somewhen last year. They were also a topic when it came to why rangers can’t hit more people with their LB #5 skill – so ACs feel our pain.
Edit: Cata does around 9k (against T3 walls) if I remember correctly.

(edited by Jana.6831)

Please change Feline Grace

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

What needs nerfing is the damage output. An agile profession should not be able to deal massive damage using one skill.

My autoattack hits for something between 480 and 1480. If I want to backstab I have to use some other skills – not sure your point is that valid. Besides, other classes are able to deal that much damage with using “one skill” and are as agile as thief.
Edit: And well, not every thief is a backstab thief, especially not those using the acrobatics line.

(edited by Jana.6831)

[Video] D/D 20606 is better than 26600

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

@mango:
Ok, ty – your shortbow is still listed as soldier as well though.
Good, one backpiece less to bother about – I don’t really like to farm all this stuff as well, it’s ok for weapons but clothes are much more annoying.

[Video] D/D 20606 is better than 26600

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

@ mango:
I still have a question to this build, since I’m currently experimenting with my second thief: You have some soldier’s stuff in your gear – is that intended or is it because that was what you had currently equipped for no real reason?

6k Heartseeker - seriously?

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Btw, if your health was 9k… and you got hit by a 6k hs, that’s more than 50%, considerably more. It’s 66% to be more exact…

I think he meant he had (nearly) 50% of his health left since the damage of heartseeker increases the lower the health of the opponent is.
I rarely do 6k heartseekers but maybe that’s because I rarely do heartseekers, nonetheless my stacks are usually full, except when I just logged in – I know how to get them!

This "Meta" has to end

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Jana.6831

Good idea, tell me how to play thief without burst and tell me how to kill a npc quickly enough so they won’t reset without bursts.

Edit: Maybe all of you should play some wvw to learn more about damage and survival =)
I mean that btw: Maybe I’m really wrong in this thread because you can’t get where I’m coming from.

(edited by Jana.6831)

This "Meta" has to end

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Posted by: Jana.6831

Jana.6831

Jana – Zerker meta is about PvE. There is no Zerker meta in WvW or PvP. <g>

Guess what, I also do pve and the rules apply to both of them, only pvp has got different rules.

Edit: and if you followed my posts closely (you didn’t have to) I solo towers in wvw, so fight npcs and again can have problems with my cooldowns.

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Jana.6831

Soldiers is tanking – two defensive stats. For a thief Zerker gear is the meta. It’s hard but zerkers tend to be the best players. You have to be.

I have been soldiers before april and haven’t been able to do what I was used to do in that gear after the crit nerf: Scouting, roaming and running with the zerg. I haven’t been the best in 1v1 because of that setup (and probably skills) but I wasn’t dead within a second, after the nerf I was. And wasn’t able to run with the zerg anymore. When I went valk/zerkers I could do 1v1 again. And no soldier’s thief has survived me in my current setup. So to me soldier’s thief is harder than valk/zerkers.

This "Meta" has to end

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Jana.6831

“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Alright, but I still mean a whole dungeon, not just one part of it =) Thanks though.

Is like this video, just takes longer.
Do you think that dodging/evading takes less skill than simply dpsing ?
So giving up passive defense to do more dmg is less skilled ?
Also, do you think soloing in rabids (f.e.) takes also more skill than in berserker ?

Allow me a question; did you ever solo a dungeon?

I love how people just think that zerkers just autoattack in their solos. Get deeper in the materia and then we can continue discussing.

Have you ever soloed a dungeon or soloed a dungeon in soldiers?
You do’t seem to read what I write, here again: If you don’t dish out max damage you’ll likely get in troubles with your cooldown or with tiny mistakes or things you can’t avoid. So to me everybody who’s able to solo an entire dungeon in soldier’s is more skilled than someone who does that in zerker’s – just read the stuff I wrote, maybe you’ll get my poiint of view and where I’m coming from.
Btw: If soldier’s were easier there would be more soldier’s videos than zerkers and I always see zerker’s.

Okay. Are you stupid or ignorant or both?
I’ll try to explain:
People who can actually solo dungeons DO NOT USE soldier gear!
Everyone who can solo it with zerkergear can do it with soldier too – you just need longer. So why would you do that? explain.

also when soloing (bosses) you don’t use zerk gear cause of your cooldowns, you use it to be faster. the cooldown thing is only for trashmobs.
players who can dodge will use zerker gear. you don’t wanna face lupicus for 15mins if you can kill him in 5mins instead. if you can’t dodge his attacks you will die with nomads or soldiergear. if you can dodge you will survive with zerker gear.

What is the problem with you guys? I initially said that someone soloing “anything” in soldier’s has got more skill in my opinion maybe that’s because I main a thief and can’t survive if I don’t put everything into offense – I don’t really play warrior or guardian or even ranger. Nonetheless it’s my opinion and you’re free to “educate” me on that but what makes you tell me that I’m stupid?

Edit, and for everything else you just wrote: there are plenty of posts from me in this thread in which I explain why I have got that opinion. Just read them.

so what?
you say you don’t put everything into offense cause you cannot survive it?
you think you are more skilled when useing soldiers and surviving than a thief who uses zerk, is two times faster than you and can still survive while also being faster?!
that has nothing to do with any opinion. it’s a fact that you need more skill when useing zerk gear.
basically you say you’re a noob cause you need that tanky gear to survive. you still think you are more skilled than a player who uses zerk gear who is two times faster AND able to survive. think about that pls. only 1min

Yeah, right – play thief in soldiers and thief in zerkers and see the difference, then you’ll maybe get where I’m coming from.
I have no tanky gear, so how do I say that I’m a noob? Edit:[better edited this part – with that we’re done, I have no intention to talk to you any further, otherwise I will really be banned]
Edit²: grammar

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“soloing a dungeon in soldiers takes more skill“ – Are you serious ?
Have you ever soloed a dungeon, have you ever compared berserker to soldiers !? I don’t know what you see as skilled but being able to facetank more hits isn’t skill for me.

Honestly, this one is a candidate for the statement of the year!

Do it and tell me if it is even possible to solo a dungeon in soldier’s.

You can solo in pretty much any gear as long as the bosses don’t have too high regeneration or you don’t fail your evades.

Others have already answered you, I have “discussed” this in several posts. Not really sure what there is left to say.

I have never seen a dungeon solo run in tanky gear and would love to see it – I don’t buy that those doing it have no options to make videos of it. If you know any videos give me the link.

Those who manage to solo a dungeon in none zerker’s gear have more skills in my opinion – I have pointed out why, others have pointed out why. So, again, give me a link so I can be proven wrong.

Not a whole dungeon but shows very well how tankier gear trivialises the content.

http://youtu.be/5-zKXILTkQo

Alright, but I still mean a whole dungeon, not just one part of it =) Thanks though.

Is like this video, just takes longer.
Do you think that dodging/evading takes less skill than simply dpsing ?
So giving up passive defense to do more dmg is less skilled ?
Also, do you think soloing in rabids (f.e.) takes also more skill than in berserker ?

Allow me a question; did you ever solo a dungeon?

I love how people just think that zerkers just autoattack in their solos. Get deeper in the materia and then we can continue discussing.

Have you ever soloed a dungeon or soloed a dungeon in soldiers?
You do’t seem to read what I write, here again: If you don’t dish out max damage you’ll likely get in troubles with your cooldown or with tiny mistakes or things you can’t avoid. So to me everybody who’s able to solo an entire dungeon in soldier’s is more skilled than someone who does that in zerker’s – just read the stuff I wrote, maybe you’ll get my poiint of view and where I’m coming from.
Btw: If soldier’s were easier there would be more soldier’s videos than zerkers and I always see zerker’s.

Okay. Are you stupid or ignorant or both?
I’ll try to explain:
People who can actually solo dungeons DO NOT USE soldier gear!
Everyone who can solo it with zerkergear can do it with soldier too – you just need longer. So why would you do that? explain.

also when soloing (bosses) you don’t use zerk gear cause of your cooldowns, you use it to be faster. the cooldown thing is only for trashmobs.
players who can dodge will use zerker gear. you don’t wanna face lupicus for 15mins if you can kill him in 5mins instead. if you can’t dodge his attacks you will die with nomads or soldiergear. if you can dodge you will survive with zerker gear.

What is the problem with you guys? I initially said that someone soloing “anything” in soldier’s has got more skill in my opinion maybe that’s because I main a thief and can’t survive if I don’t put everything into offense – I don’t really play warrior or guardian or even ranger. Nonetheless it’s my opinion and you’re free to “educate” me on that but what makes you tell me that I’m stupid?

Edit, and for everything else you just wrote: there are plenty of posts from me in this thread in which I explain why I have got that opinion. Just read them.

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They can encourage active play, which they’re doing, and they can fix clear balance issues, as they did with +Crit%,[…]

Did they really fix balancing issues? My condi Engi still gets no credit at world boss events and in WvW condi is now “op”, so how did this nerf fix anything? Genuine question.

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“Soldier’s has saved me that many times, I soloed the boss while my party was wiped”

I do this in zerker’s. No kidding. But sometimes I am downed or killed too, either because I haven’t quite figured out what to do (so make stupid mistakes) or because I try to rez someone and therefore miss a dodge. That happenes pretty often and leads to a lot of party wipes. If someone stands in a distance of 1500 they might not realize what is happening.

But since this topic will likely never end: Anet, please do me a favour: If you want to nerf crit damage again because PvE people can’t handle it, please finally separate WvW from PvE.

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Help yourself hating bad rangers, all class got some bad players here and there. It is not LB4’s problem, bad players indeed. Why nerf a skill for bad players sake? didnt make any sense at all.

Because it’s not just new players who don’t realize this but also veterans who use knockback whenever it’s off cooldown. If you say that only bad rangers use that skill (in group situations), then 98% of all rangers are bad. And since it destroys a good part of other’s people’s game play and since it’s not the duty of other players to educate them, there should be a mechanism to make them learn. (For example) Warriors usually learn it themselves as they hinder themselves at times by using knockback as hammer is a melee weapon, so kicking their prey out of their own reach makes them realize that they shouldn’t really spam that skill.
Ok, and with this I’ve said everything, I guess.

I guess you need some help in what he meant.

new player =/= bad player
veteran =/= bad player
bad player = bad player

There are plenty of other issues with other classes as others already mentioned.
Fear spamming necromancers, knockbacking hammer guards, warriors pulling every boss with tremor, mesmer GS knockback and so on.
It’s just a player issue because they don’t know / care whats the result of their action.

Umm, you reply to a post of mine without reading it? That’s not nice.

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Help yourself hating bad rangers, all class got some bad players here and there. It is not LB4’s problem, bad players indeed. Why nerf a skill for bad players sake? didnt make any sense at all.

Because it’s not just new players who don’t realize this but also veterans who use knockback whenever it’s off cooldown. If you say that only bad rangers use that skill (in group situations), then 98% of all rangers are bad. And since it destroys a good part of other’s people’s game play and since it’s not the duty of other players to educate them, there should be a mechanism to make them learn. (For example) Warriors usually learn it themselves as they hinder themselves at times by using knockback as hammer is a melee weapon, so kicking their prey out of their own reach makes them realize that they shouldn’t really spam that skill.
Ok, and with this I’ve said everything, I guess.

Edit: No not really, I’d like to point out that it’s not just me telling each ranger on my server (and there are plenty) not to knockback the mob I’m fighting while I’m soloing, it’s their reaction as well which isn’t positive in most cases but I’ll get involved in lengthy discussion on how better ranger’s damage is and that they saved my life and other nonsense. So, I’m always the bad person for a ranger interrupting and destroying my fight and the capping a camp becomes longer so enemies have it easier to storm in and cap it themselves. When someone is about to stomp me there’s no knockback though ;)

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Well then let me apologize if I have ever let you die, stay dead, or will in the future.

I do believe the game has been dumbed down and fear that it will continue to be taken down that path. Regardless of how easy it is people will still continue to die. They have no reason not to. I’m not an elitist sitting back and laughing at the dead at events. I’m an old fart (aka veteran player) that has become apathetic to those dying when there is no reason to and instead of laughing at the dead, I sigh in frustration. I know the difference between someone that is glassy and someone that can take a hit before going down, or better yet knows how to dodge and use combat mechanics to stay alive. Or knows that some bosses, based on their AI and mechanics, aren’t wise to face-tank.

Am I asking too much, Jana? That people should try to succeed at an event AND stay alive at the same time? That the game be challenging enough that it requires brain function from its players? That it not be dumbed down to such a low level that people can succeed in game at many, not all I know, things by pressing one and doing other things in the background at the same time? (I have guildmates that play GW2, watch tv shows, AND play console games all at the same time — I like them but I don’t think that should be possible)

You probably did as I’ve been on IoJ, but I don’t hold a grudge But that wasn’t my point, I can understand you with that actually.

Has anything been changed in PvE lately? Since my focus is now wvw the game hasn’t been dumbed down from my point of view as nothing is harder than facing an human opponent. Thing with dungeons is that doing them without a clue is really hard as there’s always some kind of trick behind it but one can’t really get behind it in time. Once one knows the tricks it’s a piece of cake. Not sure what else you could’ve meant.

And if it’s too easy try wvw, IoJ have been really good while I was there. I will always love them for the best zergfights I ever had and probably ever will have. Maybe they’re still that good.

Edit: So while this game has become really easy for veterans it isn’t for new players, that’s because of the tricks behind everything. And maybe a lot of those who die don’t have traits or wonky gear or greens or whatever, they don’t have to be zerkers to die easily. I can die easily in soldier’s too, I think. In wvw I can.

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I played ranger in dungeons about1- 2 months after launch when I was kicked from a party and someone said to me do never knockback a group when multiple ppl are meleeing. I got the message and tbh it was sheer ignorance on my behalf…

I think I love you!
None of those rangers I explained this to ever reacted like this and I’m fairly sure that in 95% of all cases I explained it in a perfectly normal tone. Instead a lot of them became trolls.

Not trolling, but for a lack of a better word these posts are dumb. Should I spend this week running my hammer Guardian, GS Mesmer, MM Necro, I know my Ele w/tornado elite…
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Launch
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Knockback
This is a mmo, and new players, or inexperienced players come w/the territory get used to it and move on. 900r (1200r trait) Point Blank Shot is fine.

Which posts are dumb? Yours or mine or..?
Have you read any of the posts I’ve written in this thread? I already listed other classes who are able to knockback, I also explained that it’s more annoying with rangers as they knockback farther. I also listed situations in wvw not open world zergs, where I kind of expect noobs to be around, but it’s not just noobs who use that skill, seemingly oblivious to what mess they can cause.
Yes, that skill should be nerfed or have an (negative) effect on the rangers as I can only educate people that often before I grow to hate the class.

Edit: Or just live with me hating rangers, who cares anyway?
Some of my best friends in this game are rangers, btw.

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Only thieves should be griefed… Their max range is 1050 …

With pistols if traited. Untraited max range 900, like engis who also have a max range of 900 if untraited (not sure about the grenade kit but I’m pretty sure it has got a range of 900, 1200 if traited).

And most rangers see ppl hit from their aoe’s… Barrage is often negated. Due to pulls ab knockbacks. Thieves, rangers.,necros,guardians and warriors tend to cause this..

Not sure if I understand this and I don’t think the Barrage damage of my ranger has ever been negated and I don’t know what skill my thief could possibly have that negates damage.

All others should bring a long range weapon. Dungeon builds are not Open world builds!

I think everybody should be free to play how they want. If they die because they melee a mob who’s supposed to be ranged it’s their bad but you can’t expect them to just equip weapons because rangers have the habit to knock back everything.

1st quote: If we’re taling about pushing The push is 600 leaving it in range of pistols or SB’s anyways, when you cannot reach it anymore you were not in melle range to begin with. And range is always handy, if 20 ppl are attacking something they 5% loss will not outweigh the range benefits.

2nd quote
Scorpion wire?

3rd Quote
If all people are allowed to play as they want so can rangers! This works both ways.

If you’re standing right next to the thief maybe, but the usual situation for me is the following: I solo a camp and am about to backstab the last opponent for 7,5-9k, a ranger comes in and knockbacks, so my backstab and all my damage is wasted, all my autoattack coming after my backstab is wasted, I have to run after the mob and do my combo again – so it is 16k of damage wasted as I miss out on two backstabs and the autoattack. My ranged weapons wouldn’t help me that much in taht situation.

Alright scorpion wire is a skill most thieves I know don’t have equipped, I have it for underwater combat to pull back mesmers hiding at a gate, other than that I never use it – Knockback is an automatic skill on LB though, so the possibility that any ranger uses it is higher than any thief using scorpionwire – and I honestly don’t know why a thief would do that in an open world zerg fight anyway.

Ok, scratch the “I love you” you still don’t seem to understand where people like me are coming from. =)

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Only thieves should be griefed… Their max range is 1050 …

With pistols if traited. Untraited max range 900, like engis who also have a max range of 900 if untraited (not sure about the grenade kit but I’m pretty sure it has got a range of 900, 1200 if traited).

And most rangers see ppl hit from their aoe’s… Barrage is often negated. Due to pulls ab knockbacks. Thieves, rangers.,necros,guardians and warriors tend to cause this..

Not sure if I understand this and I don’t think the Barrage damage of my ranger has ever been negated and I don’t know what skill my thief could possibly have that negates damage.

All others should bring a long range weapon. Dungeon builds are not Open world builds!

I think everybody should be free to play how they want. If they die because they melee a mob who’s supposed to be ranged it’s their bad but you can’t expect them to just equip weapons because rangers have the habit to knock back everything.

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I played ranger in dungeons about1- 2 months after launch when I was kicked from a party and someone said to me do never knockback a group when multiple ppl are meleeing. I got the message and tbh it was sheer ignorance on my behalf…

I think I love you!
None of those rangers I explained this to ever reacted like this and I’m fairly sure that in 95% of all cases I explained it in a perfectly normal tone. Instead a lot of them became trolls.

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Sorry, for clarification, can you specify who the first “They” is in you post? I don’t intend to nitpick off topic, I was just hoping for clarification on that pronoun.

As for average player intelligence, I personally have no idea. Usually my only difficulty in dungeons or other group content is a language barrier, rather than player skill. Still, this game is intended for a casual crowd, so perhaps the lowered rate of mechanics experienced is fully intended. It would simply be nice for players who do not need their proverbial hand held to avoid the tutoring and grind.

That’s hopefully not too far off topic, as this thread is traits specifically, but I think traits are part of a larger system that could be addressed for better player retention.

They = Arena net
No, it isn’t intended that people don’t know anything about boss mechanics and use their skills to avoid it instead. It has been intended that combos make some sense, otherwise there would be no combos.
Dungeons are kind of “watch a video and do it like in that video and you’re perfect” there’s not too much thinking or real knowledge involved – unless people are inexperienced when it comes to dungeons – those who know the general game mechanics will do better than those who neither know anything about said dungeon or the game mechanics.
The tutoring is gone with one click, don’t know why people really think that’s a hinderance for veteran players. I wouldn’t mind an option to turn it off though, although I wouldn’t use that option as I’m not bothered by the tooltips at all.

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Just reduce the range of the knock back against PvE mobs for these PvE fans so they can stop crying about their loss of 1second farm dps.

Yes and disable it in wvw, please as it’s so nice to see opponents escape due to knockback.

Carry a range weapon, cripple, immobilized, pull, freeze, or knockdown and adapt.

I’m a thief, my max range is at 900 and I have few of your suggested utilities and I don’t really want to see the rangers on my own server as my worst enemies.

Edit: If I could kill them I would though.
Edit²: Those who interfer in my fights, use their stupid knockback carelessly and have the nerve to then tell me that they had to trade their 6k damage against my 16k.
Edit³: Spelling

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Jana.6831

While the NPE was released after the changes to traits, both were intended to “improve the new player experience.” The NPE is somewhat successful, as it is very easy to follow, at the expense of boring veterans who would like to quickly unlock everything and continue playing on a new character (level 20 scrolls do help this).

When you combine the two changes, you have a game that’s very easy to learn, but tedious to play, especially if you play multiple characters. Personally, I would’ve loved to see 60 being almost everything unlocked with GM traits, 10/14 trait points, skills unlocking from 5 or 10 to 25 for your elite, and post 60 being the time dungeoning and exploring are pushed, especially if you left GM traits locked so there was reason to hunt for these 15 traits, but the rest were unlocked so you could play around with most of your build already.

But, most people have said similar, and it’s not as if one more voice will get a response quicker, or a solution (just look at the engineer hobosack thread). I do think the NPE and traits were too much, and new players can be trusted with more information, but that may only be opinion, as I have no facts and only my own experience in MMOs and PnP RPGs to go off (meaning I may be more open to complex setups than most and therefore biased against simplicity).

No, they only said it was to improve the new players experience with the trait changes.* That’s as if I ate your cake and explain it with me not wanting you to put on weight.
I think I’ve already talked about the rest. But this much: Most people don’t know too much about this game – becomes evident in wvw where no one uses combos. Or at events where commanders quickly invent a trinity to avoid the simple boss mechanics.

.* People were asking for a skill unlock like in GW1 for ages and anet had been busy with the China launch, so I guess no one really thought this through.

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Just reduce the range of the knock back against PvE mobs for these PvE fans so they can stop crying about their loss of 1second farm dps.

Yes and disable it in wvw, please as it’s so nice to see opponents escape due to knockback.

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I play a ranger (fairly recently) and the problem is, if you are not “allowed” to use skill 4 on LB, well, there’s damage you can’t do AT ALL because it’s a skill you take out and then you’re waiting for other stuff on CD. That’s like saying “well warriors your hundred blades is annoying so don’t use it. Just stand there and wait for skills WE LIKE are off cool down. Hey if you get killed in the meantime, we don’t really care as long as we’re happy”.

Kind of ridiculous no? You can ask ANet to change it, but then, 8 months into the trait system FIASCO and that hasn’t changed, so good luck.

Well, hundred blades doesn’t interfer with other people’s skills, knockback does and rapid fire (and even autoattack) does quite some damage so it isn’t that you’re not doing any damage at all if you’re not using knockback.

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No, I actually think it helps new players to get the depth of this game as the NPE points out certain aspects of it.

I guess I have a hard time thinking that making the kiddie side of a swimming pool more extensive adds to the “depth” of the swimming pool. I’d argue that is actually making a larger portion of the pool more shallow by doing so.

The NPE is tolerable but in conjunction with the doling out of Trait Unlocks, it’s grating.

Yes, but I tried to explain that the NPE has got nothing to do with the trait changes – now in 4 posts =)
And I don’t actually think that the NPE dumbs anything down, the main argument people have is that they can’t use bundles in quests (but not every quest is with bundles anyway) in starter zones and that the weapon skill unlock is level bound – that doesn’t dumb down anything.
The skill point challenges and vistas which are there but not accessible are a different thing as they are availlable on every map and people might not try to get them again after they’ve been resticted to get them once.

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Hate to tell ya sport, LB#3 is the shot that makes the ranger go stealth.

It also puts a small buff on the pet, as I recall. Maybe that’s why they’re using it?

Good one!

I’m not joking, actually.

Just checked, it gives the pet Swiftness, useful when so many pets seem to have a hard time with moving targets. (Not that they hit them any better, they just catch up to them for the next swing a bit faster.) It’s also a physical projectile finisher, no “20% chance” stuff, it’s a constant finisher.

So, yes, there are reasons to fire it even when you don’t want stealth.

No, not in a situation in which the boss is already immobilized by a zerg (the pet doesn’t need to run after him as it’s already at the spot) and that was what we were talking about, I guess. It was the explanation that rangers often use every skill they don’t have on cooldown and don’t want to troll others by using knockback.
That is true in a lot of cases but the one thing a lot of them don’t get is that their maxed “damage output after knockback” is still just a tiny burst compared to what the group would’ve made without the boss being knocked out of their reach*. I had endless discussions about this.

ETA: .* By using knockback rangers (and mesmers, warriors, necros) basically not only interrupt the opponent but all their allies – and that’s no fun.
ETA²: The long distance the foe is knocked back makes it even worse with rangers though.

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Hate to tell ya sport, LB#3 is the shot that makes the ranger go stealth.

It also puts a small buff on the pet, as I recall. Maybe that’s why they’re using it?

Good one!

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Oh as far as taking a camp with my Ranger? I do not need help so if you decide to run it is no loss to me! :D

Never said it was a loss to them, they might still wonder why I’m leaving the camp I was soloing. And I would prefer if they would go to different camps and solo them.

Edit: Usual if would problem – I’ll try to figure out what the correct english expression would be and then change it – might take a while though ;)
Edit²: I hope the problem is solved.

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The NPE mostly is “right” except for some of the more asinine skill gating issues still in place.

As for NPE adding or exemplifying the game’s depth, I think it actually detracts from it by parsing out the building blocks of the game.

You can either give the kid a handful of building blocks or just one every 20 minutes; I can more or less guarantee you that the kid will be more engaged with multiple building blocks versus just one or two.

My elementalist just dinged 35 with the single whopping minor Trait Point he got at level 30 and he finally got the last skill slot unlocked at level 31. It sucks being level 35 with no direction in a build or play-style. It didn’t used to be this way, the game is no longer liberating, it’s stifling.

I can not believe ANet thinks that this is the superior approach to progression.

No, I actually think it helps new players to get the depth of this game as the NPE points out certain aspects of it. Not saying it’s the best way to ensure people learn more about combos, food, combat but it is a start and better than nothing. I also think that while it doesn’t explain everything in depth it reminds people that there is stuff they can look up – ideal would be if there would be some kind of in game wiki or a list of all tool tips so people could look up what they just accidently clicked away. It doesn’t really matter whether or not I’m not able to use bundles at level 5 when I’m able to use them at level 10. Skill points should be availlable at all levels though – I didn’t figure out there was such thing as skill point challenges until I was a rather high level, but others might accidently stumble upon them, finish them and that’s less confusing than not being able to do anything with them at all – but alas, my last toon had been level 10+ when the NPE hit, so I don’t know if and what message new players get when coming across a SP challenge.
And yeah, I still agree that the trait lock/unlock stuff is a mess and that it contradicts the NPE which was introduced later on.

Edit: spelling

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Something needs changed. They use it to push mobs out, you end up with no loot. Really annoying.

There’s also many times I’ve died because someone used knockback.
But oh well, rangers in wvw pay a price for that. If someone uses knockback in a camp or anything I just run away and leave them alone – I really can’t ;)
The interesting thing is that I figured out that knockback was rather bad when I was maining a ranger, but somehow few do.

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The very reason why an opponent ranger doesn’t survive me – knockback – I’m really going after rangers because I hate knockback that much.
Just had a discussion with a friend who mains ranger and well, if a ranger storms into a camp I’m just soloing and knocks back the mob I’m just finishing we both miss out on 16k damage I would’ve been able to dish out without knockback.
So, no idea how to change it, I would like that it has got some effect on the ranger as well so they don’t use it thoughtlessly.

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Even from the, “more meaningful progression from 30 to 80,” standpoint it was a fail. They removed traits from characters within that range (reverse progression) and left a bunch of levels empty in that range. Before a trait point each level wasn’t generally a game changer, but it was at least something. With a bigger something that could be a game changer every five levels.

I know
That wasn’t my point. I know that the trait system sucks but in my opinion they didn’t introduce it to make it easier for new players, which you just kind of contradicted – I always thought they they realized that some people might struggle to learn this game afterwards and that’s why they introduced the NPE which I actually like – simply because I like this game and the depth it has but if people don’t get it the “Nerf this and that” threads won’t stop and if they don’t stop all the nice shiny stuff we have gets nerfed.