Then, sir, you are a very lucky man, in both your server and opposing servers (presuming you ate like the rest of the people that like this change because they don’t like WvW). I already got killed 4 times within the 2 hours it took me to finish the red borderland yesterday…
Map completion in WvW enforced in me the fact that there are jerks out there who revel in the fact that they can ruin the fun of others, and apparently lack any form of compassion. Which is the reason why I hate PvP in general.
It’s Mam and yes, I have always been on nice servers but when I don’t tell them that I’m in because of map completion they have no reason to harass me anyway.
Even the opponents have been nice back in the day; I did map completion in 2 phases – I hated pvp so the first time around I did it to have 100% map completion for the map completion, so I left it after having been killed that 3 times, the second time around I wanted the gift and that was when I mostly stopped running alone but joined groups and that was when I got hooked.
Wvw is a pvp map after all, people are there to “kill” each other, that’s the concept of it. But still a lot of people, myself included, let low levels pass unless they cause trouble – I usually down them and then go away but some don’t seem to get my point anyway.
I get your “mindset” as I thought like that myself but nowadays I think that people who aren’t into wvw don’t know anything about their class and with that of the game – which isn’t neccessarily true, I know there are exceptions. But usually it’s the other way around; those who are good in wvw are good in every other aspect of the game, those who are good in pve are mostly rather decent in wvw/pvp. No offense, just to say what I think. And I do wonder what direction anet wants for this game as making everything ridiculously easy (or buyable with gold) hurts the game in the long run, but that’s just my opinion – I don’t really care whether or not wvw maps are required for world map completion.
Alright, I’m seriously at loss what has happened here and I honestly didn’t pay too much attention, which I should have:
My stealth interrupts a stomp – blinding powder and shadow refuge do.
I use sigil of air instead of bloodlust in pvp.
My build works for me, doesn’t mean I was advertising it – I know it is “the worst build possible” that’s why it’s my pvp build as I set it up when a friend wanted to duel me to give him an idea how it’s like to duel me in wvw.
My win ratio in pvp is higher than 50% as well, with that very build. I can’t fight bunker necros or bunker engis but for that we have tanky classes in our team. I never lose a 1vs1 in pvp, I’m able to recap and to hold points, last time it was versus 4 who I kept occupied for half the match, for whatever reasons. It was a ranked arena so it was kind of weird. So, maybe I’m really that over the top skilled that my dusty build still works or the people in pvp are just really bad – as long as there’s no reason for me to change said build I probably won’t (although I really like the D/P build of the youtube video – but again that’s a wvw build).
And I still don’t know which initial argument I lost and I honestly don’t care about any injuries someone has that prevents them from typing properly and not noticing typos even when they edit their post.
I wish that the people who are complaining that WvW has been hurt by this change would answer the people who have to go into WvW to do map completion and report how often they have been hassled by WvW players, up to and including verbal abuse and being “ganked” repeatedly. As I’ve said elsewhere, I’m all for this change. WvW is NOT, despite some claims to the contrary, actually a physical part of Tyria; as another poster pointed out earlier, it’s actually a region of the Mists, and therefore should never have been included in map completion requirements in the first place.
I have never been hassled as I never asked for anything. I just ran alone or with the zerg. I have been killed 3 times and well that’s part of the game, you can’t expect to run around solo and not being killed.
Are we talking PVP here now? Thought the discussion was based on their PVE role, PVP sure, things are much different, I honestly wouldn’t call any profession broken or least played. DPS wise, necros are fine, could use a small increase but they aren’t terrible or anything, it’s just as you say the utility lacking, something every other profession has something to contribute.
I was coming from strictly a PVE standpoint (thought I stated as such but maybe not clear enough).
And I get and use support in PUGs all the time. Your typical bad player doesn’t realize the use of Smoke Fields or Reflects, but it seems like pretty good odds that people will use their skills to help. Especially on say a fractal 50 where you kind of had to have played for a while and done fractals enough to know how to use them.
PvE isn’t separated from the rest, so every change will affect every other aspect, a lot of classes could use some rework on their overall “class balance”, like my example with engi. I’m not that good with necro, but I ran a few dungeons and the thing I missed (usual dungeons, no high level fractals) was to be able to deal single target damage, but I could do that in death shroud with dhuumfire and in lichform (which I didn’t use at that time).
Maybe I should use Necro in dungeon runs again to try out all their skills, some of them look useful and the wells are. Problem might be to make a build that makes sense.
But maybe I have got a different approach to PvE anyway – although my main is a thief (And I use smokescreen, shadow refuge, blinding powder, but rarely smoke field) I try to hit/kill as many mobs as possible and there’s no class better in doing that than necro.
I’m still trying to figure out the best traits for me so I’m watching youtube videos and in this one guy is somehow 1v2ing tons of people with that 0/6/6/2/0 build. how is he doing so much damage even though he went pretty tanky? he doesn’t have jack kitten on his steal and he’s owning everyone
Why do you think he’s tanky, because of the traits? He’s full zerker – and have a look at Hidden Assassin (Trait).
If you want to make this about me to escape giving a straight response to that fact, you’ll need to do a better job than that. Alas, the simple fact that you returned to try, confirms my assertion.
To what fact? That you want to have the last word as I first assumed it? Or that you don’t get that I posted that build to post a build? I could’ve taken anyone – and maybe I did, who cares?
Anyway since this seems to be a troll battle and it’s clearly offtopic, I’m out to not spoil Noob King’s thread.
I despair for you Jana. I did not say I don’t enjoy having the last word – anyone who knows me knows that I do.
You realize what you just wrote there, right?
Anyway, english is my second language and it appears to be yours as well – you really should work on that!
No the argument is that anything necros do others can do better, well except maybe supply dark fields.
Not really, their Lich form hits for something about 6k with auto attack (if zerker), they can attack more than 5 players/mobs – they do a ton of damage. And in theory every class should be equally strong – and they are. The difference is the utility they bring.
They really need some help to get up to the level of Engi/Ranger
My opinion: Rangers are overpowered and will be nerfed a few months from now as they are ridiculous to play against. Engis are overpowered as well but only because of one thing: their supply crate, so if this were nerfed they were likely underpowered – I’m curious what will happen.
I think necro is slightly overpowered actually and like I said, you can do any dungeon with them.
Edit: But yes, we agree that they could use some group utility although no one ever uses them in pugs.
Alright, that didn’t make too much sense – but I guess you know it – knock yourself out in having the last word – it’s always good to have that trait.
Maybe you meant that I care enough to have the last word? No I just corrected your assumption as you got it all wrong but are too proud to admit it.
Alright, let’s try again: my build link wasn’t in so you can all judge it and tell me just how far I’m off of the meta and that I will never become a good thief (which made my friend lol when I told him) – but to give an example as to how link builds – I couldn’t care less about what you think about my build =)
Everything Wolfield said thus far has been 99% correct. You are both (Jana and King Noob IV) being pretentious and stubborn and you will NEVER learn with that mindset.
King Noob IV: Is might on dodge worth a 20% damage reduction. You also still have not used capital letters and no sigils or weapon information.
Jana: D/P is better in spvp unless your really know what your doing, then you can make D/D work, but still not as well. Also your sigils are wrong. If you want bloodlust put it on your shortbow and swap to it when you stomp, then have Fire and Air on your daggers. Your damage just went up 1.5k every 3 seconds.
For both:
Spvp is a team game. If you can stop a stomp, res a downed player you can change a losing fight to a winning fight. Both your builds have no skills to interrupt a stomp, so are no use. Here are some recommend options:
- Pistol off hand for the 4th weapon skill being a daze.
- Steal causes daze and removes stability traits
- Scorpions Wire (if you are really good with it)
- Basilisks venom
- S/P skill 3
I know what I’m doing =)
I’m using this build in open Pve, in fractals, in dungeons, in wvw and pvp – and am doing fine. Wvw is that hard that everything else is a breeze.
Edit: But that was just an example how to link builds so people have a clue what the person is talking about – and I’m using basilisk venom in pvp, that’s the only difference. Well in some fractals/dungeons I also use smoke screen.
So is your only argument that Necros are underpowered because speedrun guilds don’t use them in their runs? That’s a stupid argument – 99% of the players aren’t capable of doing what the real speedrunners do, so necros are fine in 99% of all dungeon runs – and they are. You just need to step away from the idea that the usual PvE player is a speed dungeon runner.
I don’t feel like the ones who abuse the map completer’s are the majority. Just that some do. And those few should not be used to condemn the WvW community.
There are the WvW’ers who abuse those who voice in map chat that they are just there for map completion and ask for help.
There have been many threads like this in the past and in one of them I explained how wvwler usually feel like: There’s tension because we have a shared goal – we know that goal and we work together, even if it doesn’t seem like it.
So, sometimes things are going really bad and in the midst someone comes and asks for a certain vista in the keep of an overwhelming enemy. That’s usually ok, it will be ignored in most cases but people can get angry because of the tension that has already been there and I think that’s understandable. I’ve been on 4 servers and all of them were/are cool and nice people – they just have other stuff on their minds than making map completion for a random guy possible.
Thing is; If there will be wvw only rewards, the PvE people would complain that they can’t get them – thus a few years from now they will get them for free – so in the end.. just leave wvw alone maybe – it’s better that way.
That’s good news actually.
If wvw map completion hadn’t been around when I crafted my legendary:
I wouldn’t have set a foot into wvw
I wouldn’t have wasted my gold on upgrades
I wouldn’t have paid 3600 gems on transfers
I wouldn’t have met 90% of the guys on my FL
I would’ve quit by now.
I’m not sure if you’re trolling or really that inexperienced.
Edit: I currently don’t know the damage a cannon does against a usual wvw player, I just know that cannons are pretty good and do 30k against golems which is the most important thing to me, anyway: All other classes are able to do the same damage thief does – depending on the traits, build and the armor of the target (and other stuff of the target) – so your point is kind of invalid.
To your video links: People making these videos usually don’t show when they lose, some do, like the engi I linked you previously.
And something you need to understand: There are players of different skill level in this game. My buddy and I duel a lot and he’s about the same general skill level like me, so we’re both good players no matter the class we play (he learns faster though). I can’t beat him when he’s on his medi guard but I can beat 90% of all medi guards I meet in wvw, simply because I have more skill than them – there is no “this class beats that class” if the player behind it isn’t of equal skill.
Dungeon dailies were what made it possible for me to get the traits bound to them – I have mostly given up on getting traits anyway but I don’t really understand that move either.
Do you play on EU and do you still need the trait “hidden killer”? If so, msg me in game – my mesmer sits there =)
In general: I use all weapons thieves have got in dungeons/fractals – I don’t change the traits and only switch from blinding powder to smoke screen if I know there are bosses/mobs who shoot projectiles. Same goes for when I know multiple mobs are ahead, then I switch to signet of malice, daggestorm, SB and S/P. If it’s a usual single boss, I use D/D.
I run a 06620 build with valk armor, zerker trinkets and weapons. You can also use full zerker though, the valk has a bit more vitality but it’s not that important. There are tons of ways of getting that armor – dungeons, wvw, TP, crafting. Ruby orbs instead of runes are usually enough for the start. And I honestly wouldn’t wait for it to drop
But ultimately, you will not find an engi, mesmer, guard, warrior, ele, any class in the game that can accomplish this in WvW (no matter how good they are)
[…]
Specifically the first video at about 7:30. That should be impossible just as it is for any other class.
Well, a lot of people in wvw (and pvp oh and pve) don’t know how to play the game, their class or anything.
Alright, then one of my plenty wvw stories – I was roaming, we were few on EB and someone said:
“Well, we could get the moles but there’s a teef in there, don’t go in alone”
So I got there – it was an uplevel assaulter… BOO!
After that we had a group of 3 of the same guild roaming in our corner, an engi, ranger and an ele. That had been the last night that I hadn’t had lags, so I downed the ele but the engi pulled me away when I was about to stomp.
Mapchat: “Did this just happen? Why didn’t you win against the ele?”
Our legend lives on!
Personally I’d like to have an ele as a pet – I love their weapons and their fields.
But 2 thieves is pretty mean as well – 2 times as much stealth
The other classes work as well, but I’d say ele and thief are best with another thief.
I want to be able to be a soldier’s zerg thief again whatever went wrong on april 15th 2014 (and no, it wasn’t the crit dmg or rune of melandru nerf alone or if so it went horribly wrong).
Though I will agree that getting 14k damage out of nowhere is annoying as hell, Thiefs ARE able to deal as much damage under 1,25 seconds. In fact, we even have a troll video about it.
And this video proves what? God, that was a mess.
1) This was uploaded prior the april crit nerf
2) This was likely an uplevel who was hit, I guess hit, I can’t see that much in that mess.
3) Characters geared in green, yellow or less, without traits and uplevels take more damage.
So – good job killing an uplevel – I am proud of the guy who made that video and I am more convinced than ever that year ago thief was OP.
Edit: Anet, kittens are cute, yes, but your filter sometimes makes no sense at all!
Not really: Warriors have got invulnerability, 33+ speed, GS, S – if things don’t go their favour they can just run – and that’s what they do.
I already covered that part in what you quoted.
Nope, you didn’t =)
Eidt: Or at least not really – roamer warrior (those who engage in 1vs1/2…) have a high mobility build and they can always get away.
I was doing 1vs1 with my friend the other day and when he was at 10% health he started to run in circles in the arena until his health was up again, he didn’t even have to use his weapons to evade, just sprint, invulnerability, sprint and so on. So, coming after them isn’t that easy as you can’t do anything if they’re invulnerable and can’t catch them without blowing all of your initative. They (warriors) don’t have any disadvantage because of that build.
I’m afraid the zerker warrior doesn’t always have a second (third, fourth) chance should he make a mistake during the fight, despite his mobility. Sure they go hard, they hit hard, they have immunities, but those with weapon sets that don’t allow them to flee effectively are condemned to die if things don’t go in their favor and those able to flee are, alas, very predictable and therefore prone to being taken advantage of in the fights they engage.
The combination of stealth + mobility gives you a Plan B, and, a Plan C and even gets you back to Plan A with the possibility to continue indefinitely, drawn out fights are no problem should the instagibbing attempt not be successful and as long as you don’t get blasted by anything major that can quickly turn into a combo.
Not really: Warriors have got invulnerability, 33+ speed, GS, S – if things don’t go their favour they can just run – and that’s what they do.
You realize that you can CnD again as soon as you get out of stealth right?
You don’t have to backstab every time.
What I do in a fight is to CnD and I just sit there and watch how my target reacts to my stealth. Then I CnD them again right after stealth and see what they will do. If they burn their dodges trying to anticipate a Backstab then the 3rd CnD will surely be the end of them.
It’s all about patience and great timing.
You read that I also talked about that very scenario, right?
You can do that against a few classes but against others you won’t have success with that. We were talking about thieves and I wouldn CnD chain against thieves. I do against mesmers.
Edit: And btw. If you planned to backstab someone and instead go for a CnD chain your backstab has been wasted. But it’s good that we all talk this lengthy about it – useful and stuff.
CnD gives 3 seconds of stealth. 4 if traited in SA. There is also no “waste” on backstab unless you hit something other than the target.
[…]
I’d not run more than 2 points in SA. If you’re dying, use tankier gear and work your way closer to DPS as time progresses. Extensive use of SA/rejuv will create bad habits and promote poor play in the long run.
Ok, so it’s 4 secs if traited.
We discussed the “wasted” lengthy – it can be wasted as the stealth can run out beforehand and the best option then is to go heartseeker, unless you have a smart but handicapped player and try to sneak up ehind him to do the next CnD to try another backstab in the hope the guy will run out of dodges and won’t try to defend himself. You won’t have time anough to land a perfect backstab against a target who knows what they’re doing. Also stealth doesn’t last indefinitely, especially not as a D/D thief.
Anyway: I started with 4 in SA and went 6 in SA and would be stupid to not do it as my build relies on might. You can call that poor gameplay all you want, it is poor gameplay to you. To me putting x conditions into steal is poor gameplay – but at least I know it’s my personal opinon.
So basically the only way to stop a Thief’s backstab is knowing beforehand there is a Thief and being able to anticipate his moves with divination or telepathy. Or you can accept him backstabing you in the first place and then hope to get lucky with his second try. Maybe he will not chase you! Good to know!
Isn’t that the case with every other class? And hey, 3 others can stealth too.
Yeah sure, I’m absolutely certain that you’re right and my 20 roaming and duelling thief friends certainly agree with that as well – they have no clue.
Hes right I just came back from a long pause which means im super rusty but most thieves in WvW have no clue what they are doing. Half of the thieves that I find while roaming on my blinding ash signet ele kill themself spamming their skills into my fire shield. It doesnt even demands skill from my side. They just dont have a clue what they are doing.
Of couse, he is right and you are also right: I mean you encountered maybe 10 thieves that does say something about all thief players in general!
Btw: I meet enough people no matter the class who have got no clue about my class either. No matter whether it’s wvw or PvP – I should go to their forums and tell them that they’re all OP.
Cool wings, disappointed at the lack of color choices though. Color & texture, come on, some choices would at least make the crowd look a bit different. Reminds me of back when tempered spinal blades came out, everybody wore the same thing, boring. Until the color choices came in, that was when it became cool.
Well, as far as I know these wings belong to the Rayment of Lich “costume” – and they were originally black, so it makes sense for them to be black.
And since I already was kind of negative in this thread, I won’t say anything about the spinal blades ;)
They look bad in the preview alone, too huge and disproportional. Hey they could be turned into mounts! All these players will be travelling through the sky while us usual folks won’t see them on the ground anymore – two birds with one stone. Wait..
Yeah, but not every thief uses dagger.
I would vote for “TEEF INFERNO [TI]” actually.. or “TEEF BLOB HUGE [TBH]” I mean it should include all people who main thief.. and that’s a lot.. the guild has got to have an impressive name!
Edit: Actually one of my guild’s message of the day is
“Eat my d..aggerstorm” cause I actually said that in skype while diving into a zerg.
Jan PM me in game. Leave me a message since you main a thief cause I’d love the chance to get to duel another thief (super fun). Then again it’ll be after a month or so for me to get on since I’ve got to prepare myself for an upcoming exam. After that then we’ll talk about making a thief guild.
I’m playing on EU, so if you’re also EU I know tons of thieves who love to duel – no shortage around here =)
Yeah, but not every thief uses dagger.
I would vote for “TEEF INFERNO [TI]” actually.. or “TEEF BLOB HUGE [TBH]” I mean it should include all people who main thief.. and that’s a lot.. the guild has got to have an impressive name!
Edit: Actually one of my guild’s message of the day is
“Eat my d..aggerstorm” cause I actually said that in skype while diving into a zerg.
“Following” someone is an important tool in WvW. When you know of the driver or commander on the enemy team, knowing what BL they’re in is key to having good fights, or knowing where to go to avoid the zerg. It it’s really “stalking”, per se. In the real world, that’s illegal. In the virtual game world, it’s just knowing where someone is.
Now if they’re abusing you in game, that’s a different story. Then it becomes a reportable issue.
You don’t see where your opponent is when you follow them, it only says “wvw”. Some friends of mine are on a different server which my server has been up against the past weeks. Now I can see again at which borderland they are, during our matchups I couldn’t.
I’m on TC myself like you but I am a veteran WvW player unlike you. But (probably) like those JQ and BG players you encountered, I have this unwritten rule that I don’t attack single roamers unless they take something that is ours or attack me first.
I think many veteran WvW players have similar codes of ethics. Beating up unsuspected foes starts to get boring after a while, especially if they’re people like you who just want to do map completion. So that’s why I and many other veteran WvWers won’t attack unless attacked or provoked.
Yes I do – I let everybody pass as long as they have a rather low rank and don’t cause havoc.
Yeah, I’m starting to lose excitement about the expansion. Kind of realizing that the rifle might not bring much – aside from QQ’s about how a thief killed someone now at 1200 distance and how that’s super cheese because they have stealth and lots of mobility so they shouldn’t have 1200 range – and I’m starting to think we won’t see the expansion till past summer judging by how much information they’ve been putting out about it.
(In reality, any weapon we get, it will be complained about.)
Oh no, don’t lose excitement or hope or whatever, I want you to stick around, other than you there’s just rangers and überpros who call me a noob – I would have no reason to come here anymore – and how should I survive the loading screens of GW if I’m not passing the meantime on the forums? =(
Rifle for teef will be completely awesome: We will be able to fly through the sky on it and umm.. escape? So, it will be a bit like a rocket, you hop onto it, it will be stealthed for the first 5 secs and then bring you to a safe place in a distance of 1200. It will then explode in fire and burn all enemies waiting there. Unblockable I should add. You also get 5 stability while riding on it. You can use this as an infiltrator tool as well though. And in the first time it will be bugged so thieves in wvw will be able to burnfly into enemy towers and solo cap them.
Ok, I’ll stop here.
No, I’m not on drugs.
