Guild Wars 2

Keven got it right. XF moved their last little bit in after the server went off of full. The majority of XF were here when we fought last. Again, no new guilds since we fought last. But if you want to count 15 PVXers as the reason we are ahead then go for it.

When BG is behind: OMG BG TEARS LOL
When BG is ahead: OMG you eat whole servers that’s why you win!

I suppose no one’s counting the fact SOR “ate” desolation, a guild that WAS the entire EU server in a timeslot that no NA server has large coverage of, therefore making a higher than average contribution to the server because it sets up the NA timeslot.

We all have guilds that have joined the various servers. The way the matchups WERE made encouraged top heavy tiers. We’ll have to see if the new random matches changes that, I think they will over time.

Nuked.2360:

Kathy K.6812:

Zen.8497:

Killtrox.2019:

Beastgate feeds off the hate…and uncrustables. Oh, and sorry about the pug group last night Choo and TDub…we didn’t know we were so good in GvGs. 6-1 where’s Red Guard at?!?!

Welcome back! I haven’t seen you around ever since last time BG start winning. I also hope that Red Guard joins SoR to balance BG’s new recruitment.

RG already moved to JQ, and BG didn’t get any new recruits lol… SoR is fighting the same force that they’ve been fighting for months.

Someone is a bit delusional. BG has gotten multiple guilds in the past month or two. To claim otherwise is insulting towards the guilds that transferred to your server. If you want I could list them.

And yet he was responding to someone who thinks we just got new guilds since we last faced SOR, which we did not.

Keep sending us the bags in BGBL. We ate your entire map zergs over and over and over and over and you never took it.

JQ showed its true colors last week without SOR’s help, even with TW. We all know they wouldn’t still be ranked 3rd if they didn’t have their big brother to look after them.

JQ/SOR have us outmanned, but never outmatched. Enjoy your PPT you earned it.

eithinan.9841:

I hope this newly revitalized BG gets matched up with SOR next week to see what type of coverage the fairweathers can bring you guys.

I hope we get matched up against SOR WITHOUT JQ. Its clear now that JQ without SOR isn’t close to BG score wise (most of the rating we have gained is from them, NOT from DB) because last week the scores were almost dead even, and now we are decimating them.

I think there will be a similar effect if we face SOR without JQ.

pot.6805:

Um this glicko issue has been an issue for at least 6 months now and I’ve been calling it out as kitten for that long. SoR isn’t the first one to deal with losing rating by winning. You didn’t seem to care when it wasn’t effecting you, in fact you made fun of other servers for not “playing glicko correctly”. Learn to play glicko correctly.

Now that you mention it, I also seem to remember two weeks solid of SOR telling BG we were playing the glicko system poorly lol.

The glicko system itself hasn’t changed. Just how the servers are matched up.

Next week’s match will be random. The most likely matchup of any matchup is JQ/SOR/BG BUT that matchup is still less than 50% likely, its around 1/3 chance…ish. There is like a 75% chance BG will fight EITHER JQ or SOR.

I’m mostly going off old numbers, but I think that’s pretty close.

Mindtrick.5190:

JaredKincade.9761:

The hero in that matchup is how well Sea of Sorrows is doing, even though they are so out manned. They are gaining 55 rating because they are putting up a fight when everyone, including the rating system, expected them to roll over and tick at 10 24-7. That’s not happening and they are getting rewarded for it.

Good job Sea of Sorrows.

LOL, im sure they feel that way.

Why not, that was SOR’s story when we beat them 12 weeks in a row in Tier 2.

The hero in that matchup is how well Sea of Sorrows is doing, even though they are so out manned. They are gaining 55 rating because they are putting up a fight when everyone, including the rating system, expected them to roll over and tick at 10 24-7. That’s not happening and they are getting rewarded for it.

Good job Sea of Sorrows.

To all the complaining from DB about coverage and zergs of BG.

Wait till you fight SOR lol.

And its nothing personal in this match (well maybe with JQ) but we still have a ladder to fight for and rating to gather. :P

Sophtspoken.9062:

Eviator.9746:

Sophtspoken.9062:

I’ve spent 8+ hours a day in eb since reset and from what I’ve seen BG can’t do anything to us without WAY out manning us or double teaming us with JQ which is just sad. At least as far as EB goes

Have you never followed a 30+ man zerg to take an undefended camp or tower? The way I see it, if you are winning the numbers game, might as well use that to your advantage. I certainly wouldn’t say “hey look 10 DB taking QL, can a squad of 10 people or less please stop them?”

Oh, and you can be sure that BG has fairweathers just like any other server. So some of those people you are complaining about might not be too confident in their WvW skills, and need backup from people who know what they’re doing.

Lastly, you sound bitter. You clearly are not enjoying your time, yet you are spending 8 hours a day in EB. Maybe your time is better spent elsewhere. I’m not saying this to troll, I just think you might have an addiction problem, and I’m trying to help.

generally I don’t spend this much time in eb but this was week T1 and I personally have not seen T1 before . Everyone said we were going to get rolled we are going to lose ect ect and true enough we are getting rolled but T1 just isn’t as impressive as I had hoped theyd be maby that’s my issue just didn’t live to the hype

It’s ok DB. Every server has one, we understand.

Actually, BG’s current server meta is in response to the map-cap size zergs SOR has been using for months. Unfortunately though we are not fighting SOR currently, habits die hard.

In fact, BG uses multi-commander and two split groups much more often then either of the other “tier 1” servers.

Is it just me or are wvw points not reset?

My main point with the new system is this:

The old system CAUSED the very high difference in WvW skill and population between Tiers.

Ability: Servers were isolated from each other for long periods of time. So new tactics develop in Tier 1 that Tier 2 has no idea about. Evidence: look at many of the post by DB players in this very thread. They are talking about how much different we do things and how much they are learning. If DB had not played us this week, they STILL wouldn’t know about it.

Population: AFTER free transfers ended, the #1 reason guilds transferred were to fight new opponents and get out of the deadlock of fighting the same guilds and servers over and over again. Look at IRON. Their guild was so done with with WvW because they were stuck against Vizuna Square for so long and couldn’t leave the Tier.

Look at the amount of compression of WvW guilds the servers have gone under since free transfers ended. Entire WvW populations were eaten by the current Tier 1 servers. SBI, IOJ, KN, FA, DH, CD and even some EU servers. If those guilds had remained spread out, we’d have much closer matches even with the volatility.

Those two main factors have cause a huge spread in points when servers go up even one Tier. But how to fix this?

You remove the stagnation that caused it: Check.

You make transferring to lower servers cheaper: Check. (When they lowered the pop cap, they did it for everyone, its cheaper to move to more lower pop servers than ever before)

In six months we are going to see a much more even top two or even top three tiers than we see right now because of this system. Because guilds will move off the stacked servers cuz they will realize how much of a blowout they are causing in their matches.

HOD was stacked. It no longer is. The guilds will spread out because now they won’t be afraid of boring matches because they will get to fight good opponents if they roll the right random number again, instead of having to hope for a server to implode.

Akkadian.7206:

Kaimick.5109:

eithinan.9841:

eithinan.9841:

Eviator.9746:

Nobody, not anyone in T1, T2, nor T3 – T8, is surprised by what DB is doing against T1 servers. Well maybe 0.01% of DB is surprised about how bad we’re doing, and those are the ones that trolled the T1 forums and JQ LA weeks ago.

You guys have been in the T1 matchup so long you may have lost some perspective. You can ask SoR, TC, and SoS now…T1 is a different beast, and nobody outside of T1 has a chance. So should T1 servers feel so great about beating DB down? No, I think they should feel bad for letting us have even +1 PPT.

I look at this a different way. I am very pleased with how well Db is doing when we are outside of SEA prime time. There have been times during euro where we have pushed the PPT to over +200 this reset weekend which is generally our worst time zone. During NA prime we have held a decent PPT for a T2 server as well at times.

I appreciate how TW didnt come to Db to mess our glicko up even more after last weeks match.

along the lines of what I posted previously….

I would like to point out that Db managed to take Stone Mist Castle 2 times tonight while holding our 3rd. Well done underdogs.

Not down playign you, but I commanded in EBG for 9 hours today and I can tell you at one time I ordered that my guys in EB hold off JQ and let DB cap SM. Why? Becuase I knew I could take it back 3 minutes after you took it, which I did.

Now the other time you took it some new blood Commander let QL and Durious and SM fall, which promoted JQ trouncing him for 30 minutes as he froze in place at the site of JQ.

Although great fights tonight in EB, especially to the 50+ man zerg JQ had about 3 hours ago that we fought and killed 3/4 of them before they retreated back to Anz. Thanks for the bags and great fights all around from JQ and no offense some to DB. Although I will say I like going over and putting DB in time out every time they come over and get a wild hair up their bum.

Lastly I am sure plenty of JQ can tell you at least when I command I don’t do the 2v1 I interupted JQ’s hostile take over of DB territory twice tonight. I even got hell from one of our fair weather guilds saying I shouldn’t attack JQ since they are attacking DB and they are double teaming them with us. My response was,

No I am here for the fights, Both Jq and Us have wiped each other all day, Unlike some fair weather commanders I am not goign to let them take things to make kitten easier for us.

So I salute DB for all your valient attemtps and I salute you JQ for all the great fights we had today

Lord Kaimick Commander of Ruin BlackGate

Hopefully those fair weather players realize the war atrocities they committed by you showing firsthand that you won’t stoop so lowly as to 2v1 even if it meant upgrading our own side of the map as a top priority, which funny enough would only further help defend from either of the opposing sides in the long run. In hindsight from tonight’s showing, I guess upgrading towers and all that jazz isn’t really needed, seeing as how a T3 Durios was lost without a lick of defense from our boys in blue while under your stellar leadership. All drivel aside, I don’t think you’ve earned the right to call anyone, player or guild a fair weather; I can’t recall how many times you’ve detagged because things don’t happen to go your way. Oh also, you might wanna not take petty shots at the very people who are trying to help you. It’s hard to command when you don’t have any willing scouts, just saying.

In my opinion, when you do not purposefully 2v1 another team (ESPECIALLY in EBG), you just draw it on yourself in the long run. Why punish a team for hitting the team that isn’t you?

I don’t get it.

It amazes me people do not like the new system. The old one was so STAGNANT. No matter what happened, the only way for servers to fight new people was massive shifts of guilds to other servers. It encouraged stacking a server. Once one server did it (JQ) the rest had to follow to try to compete. For months now we’ve had “stack wars 2”.

Now we get to fight new opponents without having to switch servers to do so. No matter how bad your match up is, you have the knowledge that it will only last a week. Then the random number generator is up again.

DB is a perfect example. They had a nice week last week. Got to rest a bit, the PvX got out in force and had some fun. This week they are going up against tough competition and are taking the opportunity to learn how we do things. That can ONLY be good for them. Instead of fighting FA and TC for 6 months…over…and over….and over….again.

That’s what causes people to stop playing. Not the excitement of facing new challenges. Sure the PPT for DB isn’t what they would all hope, but they are picking a map, deciding on objectives in that map, and making us pay to take them.

The vast majority of DB players are happy with this match up and are having fun despite the fact they don’t have the forces to compete 24/7.

It was a farce we didn’t have this match up system from the start, if we did we wouldn’t have servers so far apart from each other in WvW population.

Many? I think like three people posted about it, and mine I did for lols. I just thought it was funny they couldn’t bear to be without us for even one week!

Every week is random, I just find it funny they started a precedence one day after being away to flip servers to look for match ups. Especially with this new system, there is no way of telling what will happen the next week, so waiting it out seems the better option.

Still their gold, their choice, just pointing out the hilarity of it. No conspiracy theories here.

TW could have at least went to DB and made it more interesting. I feel bad for you DB guys lol,

(pssst let’s both hit JQ )

lol SOR and JQ 2v1 us even when they aren’t even in the same match up.

Too funny.

First, what the kitten are non DB-BG-JQ servers doing in here? GET OUT.

@that 3 hour fight in garrison DBBL-LOL. You learn how to fight in that, there is a…method for getting some skills to work. You guys got plenty of banner rezzes off just fine. Eventually we decided enough was enough (when we started the WP upgrade on bay) and camped the lord and let JQ cap it. Then we just took it from them :P

DB don’t lose morale, you got hit with the double last night. That won’t happen every night. And you will learn some tactics, and that’s gonna take about four weeks (it did for us when we went T1 permanently).

In the long run, this is much much better for this game. Spreading out the tactics, the fights, the competition and eventually the guilds again I think. Also, its nice to have an easier week, then a tougher week, not ALL TOUGH WEEKS tell you drop a tier then ALL EASY WEEKS.

As far as ICoa is concerned, tonight was “welcome to the Tier” night. You’re going to see us hitting JQ first most of the rest of the week. We have some history. :P

Though there may be one guild we keep an eye out for. :P

DB, make use of the opportunity of when we hit JQ, and we’ll get along just fine.

You drew a random number, that’s how.

If you guys truly destroy them, as in they tick at 0 ppt 12 hour of 24 hours and 10 the other 12, then your rating will go up, there’s will go down, and you’ll have a lower probability of playing against them in the future.

Whoever loses the most rating in the Tier above you will have the highest chance of facing them next week.

Seems you do have motivation, not to face them again. The more rating you can stuff between your servers, the less chance that has of happening again.

Look at how low those server’s rating are. They have NO ONE. Someone has to fight the two servers with no wvw presence at all. Its just your turn this week.

Gunner’s Hold is up 50 rating atm despite having a low relative score. Keep up the fight guys throughout the week and you’ll have a nice fat rating gain to show for it.

AndrewSX.3794:

JaredKincade.9761:

What we will get for once is VARIETY!

Stagnation kills MMOs faster than anything else. WvW is sorely in need of this change, it will be for the better.

Some weeks you will dominate, other weeks you will get dominated. But it will show you the tactics of the other servers, and in a few weeks, the tactics will help even things out.

So, we should prefer Variety over Balance?

No ty.

(imo)

Yes, I think we do. Balance will come as ratings are adjusted. And the largest culprit to why we are this unbalanced is because the matchup system has been poor this long.

I think they should open up free transfers for 2 days.

I also think this will cause much less pushing on the red and blue colors and turn it toward pushing the green color much more, and here is why.

Viewpoint of Red: I don’t want to drop to the lower tier next week, so I will focus blue points and get them to switch to red.

Viewpoint of Blue: I don’t want to drop to red next week and risk dropping another tier eventually, I’ll focus Red to keep them down.

Viewpoint of Green: Ha ha dummies! -Cherrypicks fights as he see’s fit-

Now next weeks match ups wont be determined solely by how this week did. Instead people can push that evil tier 1 server together because its more fun, than pushing the other teams because they have to to survive.

I’m just saying I think its more likely we get the double teams going against whoever the highest rating server is in each match up. This will go a long long way to help even up the matches for the lower rating servers.

Guys in the middle tiers, you are not thinking this through.

You have the same chance of facing a server with lower rating than you do with one in a higher rating.

It could be FA TC MAG one week, and then FA TC SOR the next. What we will get for once is VARIETY!

Stagnation kills MMOs faster than anything else. WvW is sorely in need of this change, it will be for the better.

Some weeks you will dominate, other weeks you will get dominated. But it will show you the tactics of the other servers, and in a few weeks, the tactics will help even things out.

And to answer someones question, I think in six months this change will cause a long term shift to more balanced servers and here is why:

Right now they only way to fight the best guilds/servers is to spend loads of cash to move to a server in that tier. (look what red guard did right before free transfers ended). Now staying in tier 2 or even maybe tier 3 you will get a chance to fight those guilds, no need to up and move your whole guild and start over in guild missions.

We already have some pretty famous examples of guilds moving downward from top winning servers, (HOD, SOS, SBI) and a few from JQ and BG as well. We will see much more of this if those guilds can feel they will get to fight in tough matchups against tough guilds if they move down.

Again, will this happen over night? Probably not, but it will happen slowly over time and we’ll have some more balanced WvW servers in the long run.

Also, Jon, BURN and no wonder I can’t get a job in the business, kitten man.

What everyone is forgetting, is that the ratings will adjust basted on the relative ratings of each opponent just like it does now.

So lets take an example here. SOR vs TC vs Mag One server from each Tier.

Projected ratings for next week are:

SOR 2214
TC 2000
Mag 1830

The ratings are so far apart that SOR would have to CRUSH I mean destroy both servers by 150k+ rating for SOR not to lose rating. This gives Mag and TC a chance to gain rating if they push hard, because they will gain and SOR drop if they put up any sizeable resistance.

Then, when that week is over, the new ratings will be used to calculate the next week (plus the random generator).

What this means, is the underdogs of each matchup have a huge handicap where rating is concerned. They don’t have to beat the higher rating server, they just have to put up a fight, and the ratings will adjust.

Which server folds after the first weekend? Which servers fight tenaciously every day despite being outmanned? Those servers who keep matches as close as possible will find themselves shooting up the ladder. The higher rating servers that grow too complacent in their 50k leads will find themselves losing rating.

All in all, I think its a GREAT idea, and WvW would be MUCH better off it was done six months ago, however, better late than never.

Now we just need a way in game, so the WvW noob/pug can see that fighting against overwhelming odds helps their server gain rating, even if they may be losing by 100k points. Like an MOS rank projector built into the WvW interface.

When BG ticks <100. OMG LOLZ BG YOU SUCK.

When BG ticks >500 OMG BG UR SUPER STACKED!! NEW VISUNA! UNFAIR!

The funny part is, its only 3 days apart.

BG is not super stacked, JQ just insn’t logging in for some reason, the JQ posters said so themselves. I’m sure its a short term problem and JQ will be back to large forces soon.

Maybe we should be in the lead before you call us Visuna first.

So in two days, its turned into:

Flash build an AC, and see if you can kill their ACs before they know where you built your AC. THEN ram.

SOR came up with a new fun tactic, throw down tons of ram build sites to hide which build site is the AC. Then flash build the right one.

AC Wars.

Last page breakdown:

BG: “I’m glad Waha is back, we enjoy good competition on BG!”
JQ: “If you win, gratz! A hard fought well earned victory!”
SOR: “HA HA BG! We wiped you 8 times!”

I haven’t posted in this thread for a month. See you next month.

New, meta.

Enjoy.

Lance.5892:

JaredKincade.9761:

You cannot starve supply. They port to their keep in EBG and get it there. Or start siege razer on another map and get supply there. You CANNOT STARVE SUPPLY. The trebs your building cost 100 supply each, their mortars that you cant see to hit are FREE.

What both of these changes together means is there are now no options of taking a fully upgraded keep UNLESS IT IS EMPTY.

Everyone who is saying “L2P and try different strats” go try them yourself. Flip that tag on, give it a shot.

This change encourages large zergs (to hold the supply for the 4 trebs you need in hopes of killing their treb/mortars first), and encourages PVD (taking the points at night when no one is in the tower and you can build 4 AC to keep anyone from getting in the door (Except of course keeps with a waypoint, aka, free access to supply from another map).

The most thought provoking aspects of this game (fighting thinking people) have been diminished in this patch. Now we just wait out the other team to see who leaves their towers first.

People also don’t realize that its also possible to port to a map with breakouts and have all the people in the group use a breakout event and all of a sudden have several hundred supply dumped into their hands

Exactly, then port back into the keep in 3 minutes, repair the fortified wall that went down to 95% before you got your mortars lined up to kill their trebs, and then build more counter trebs and AC with that supply. Now if they go take 3 camps, (that now have unkillable buffs so it wont be fast) to resupply and build more trebs, you have the trebs up first.

Even if they get the walls down, you’ve had time to build ACs to cover that choke THEY ARE NEVER GETTING INSIDE. And the whole time, you’ve never had to actually use your weapons against another player.

Unreal.

Lepew.7890:

If AC range now approaches catapult, there is a big problem. I do not mind higher AC damage. I am so tired of big zergs pvdooring down keeps, and flipping conquests so fast none of the keeps have time to upgrade. In DAOC taking a keep was a big deal, but this game as it was before this patch had keeps and towers flipping easily.

Zergs are a problem in this game, and having the anti-personnel weapon, the AC, be effective against a zergball is good. You now have to break that zergball up into smaller pieces to avoid overlapping AC fire. You also can not now zerg down a door in no time flat.

But this range thing is a concern. The wiki says catapult range is 4000, ballista range is 3000, and AC range is 2500. Are these numbers up to date? If so a ballista and a catapult can go beyond AC range. If AC range is now 3000 or 4000, then that completely breaks the rock-paper-scissors arrangement between siege.

Golems and rams are now ninja weapons. Get in, use them before defenders can man the ACs. To pull off their use you will need to feint to draw defenders elsewhere and rapidly take with these.

But you cant draw them off. We rotate scouts in keeps for 18 hours (other guilds do the other times). Besides how will you draw them off? Hit something else they own? It only takes 3-5 people to stop 40 now so why would they move?

You cannot starve supply. They port to their keep in EBG and get it there. Or start siege razer on another map and get supply there. You CANNOT STARVE SUPPLY. The trebs your building cost 100 supply each, their mortars that you cant see to hit are FREE.

What both of these changes together means is there are now no options of taking a fully upgraded keep UNLESS IT IS EMPTY.

Everyone who is saying “L2P and try different strats” go try them yourself. Flip that tag on, give it a shot.

This change encourages large zergs (to hold the supply for the 4 trebs you need in hopes of killing their treb/mortars first), and encourages PVD (taking the points at night when no one is in the tower and you can build 4 AC to keep anyone from getting in the door (Except of course keeps with a waypoint, aka, free access to supply from another map).

The most thought provoking aspects of this game (fighting thinking people) have been diminished in this patch. Now we just wait out the other team to see who leaves their towers first.

STOP AND THINK.

You all say that this is good for the small forces. That, yay “now a large force has to stop and use strategy to take a keep from a smaller force”. What about taking a keep from an equal force? Or from a larger force? Now they have more scouts than you!

Servers that are undermanned won’t be able to take anything either! They will just hide in their tower and keep what they have until people get bored of attacking. Then when you go on attack they do the same to you? Where is the fun in this?

This turns everything into one huge stalemate. If the large WvW guilds start leaving this game, its a BAD thing for everyone. And let me tell you, after not even 24 hours, we are all VERY frustrated with the changes. I sincerely hope they are reverted quickly.

Shiren.9532:

Sounds like a lot of people are blaming arrow carts for impacts from the siege defense nerf (skills which negated siege fire such as Swirling Winds and Smoke Screen). Formerly it was easy enough to take a zerg with more eles than your enemy and chain cast Swirling Winds to destroy the enemy’s treb (or just protect yours while you took out their gate or wall). If you had more siege defence than your enemy (which is likely if they are outmanned and you have a zerg) you were guaranteed to break in (zerg wins over everything else). Now that arrow carts do what they are supposed to do (meaningfully punish people too close to the tower and defend against rams, golems and zergs) people are upset (formerly arrow carts were a joke you can stand in and heal through in a game where healing is weak). Defensive siege was almost completely useless against a zerg.

I’m not saying arrow carts aren’t OP (a single arrow cart isn’t that threatening even now, it’s in great numbers that they become a threat in small numbers they perform their role) but a lot of the issues I’m hearing have nothing to do with arrow carts. Arrow carts counter gate sieges and pressure zergs, if your treb and cata sieges aren’t succeeding because of the projectile defence nerf, direct your criticism towards the right target. People were countering stupid zergs with arrow carts before this patch. The difference now is that arrow carts are more common (because they are actually useful now – previously you could stand in the fire or two arrow carts without a care).

Make sure when giving feedback on this you are directing it towards the correct target. Arrow carts have very little to do with countering trebs.

It is both issues together. There are now zero options. Two superior ACs with siege might and some of the new AC upgrades (we had people saving points, I’m sure the enemy did too) drop people in 3 to 4 seconds to downed.

The treb is an issue because it was the only defense against the ACs, you could treb them down (somewhat) but now you cant keep the trebs alive long enough to take out the ACs.

Additionally, even if you got the walls down with said trebs, you cannot survive in the choke against 5+ superior ACs, not with poison that stops healing, and cripple.

What some (perhaps lower) tiers aren’t getting is that in the top two tiers there are zergs on BOTH sides almost all the time. Everyone complains about the zerg for MONTHS, but this doesn’t fix any of that because zergs can use this too. So it becomes a stalemate and the end result is, no one can take keeps while anyone is inside (if its upgraded).

Anyway, said my piece. Either they will listen and make changes, or they won’t. I know some people disagree, but its the people that like to sit and spam 2 from the safety of a tower/keep and watch the bags pile up and feel like superman.

Victory.2879:

I’m quoting this for sheer…

quote:Have fun sieging 24/7, I’d rather go out have some good fights, but AC will ruin all fights nearby keeps and towers, people will even build AC in the complete open to kill.

I’ve quoted it as it made me laugh- you mean you weren’t building ac and ballys out in the open before? One of my favoured tactics in even fights was to throw down a bally and a couple AC, enemy pushes and whack AC and bally hits at the same time as our team turns and hits= battle won.

As for all the QQ, this change makes for much more tactical placement and more use of trebs in open field positions, and having to replace them after they are killed too in new spots. It also means more people need to rush and suicide killing mortars before starting a siege or as part of the plan.

Was great fun last night placing trebs to attack SM’s dozen or so trebs – AM had three times our numbers but that didn’t stop some great fights.

These changes make carrying supply in your group even more important so that when someone throws down a treb it is instantly built and can fire on and remove all those pesky AC from a lot of places.

Makes the game much more fun for me, now mindless zerg can be more easily dealt with and it takes tactics and effort to take a well defended t3 keep.

You can’t keep trebs alive. The mortars and counter trebs. You cant hit the mortars on inner hills with a treb because you can’t see them. You can build it in a new spot, I’ll just move the treb/mortar and kill it because you can’t ele block it now. You also cannot hit ACs in front of a door with a treb, the range is too close. Sure I can kill an AC or two with 100 cost supply trebs before it gets killed, but ACs are cheaper supply, and when I run to get more supply with my zerg, the defenders are doing the same. I have to hit a full camp of 100 to supply me for one treb. God forbid there is a waypoint and they can port inside with supply every 3 mins from another map.

And they are building ACs to protect the mortars on the outer walls, no one can get close enough to AOE the mortars down now lol.

I’m sorry, against competent opponents, this is a huge issue.

Yes, the large zergs with 15 supply can drop 4 superior arrow carts in about 10 seconds.
Done.

Lets say you get the walls down in a keep by trebbing (and assuming they are too dumb to use their own trebs AND don’t have mortars). Now you have to go through the hole in the wall you made. Prime time? with equal forces on each side? No way will anyone be able to get inside to hit the enemy players. It will be camp camp camp all day long with 8+ AC. Portal into the trebs past the choke yous say? Ooops, mesmers can’t even cloak with the new skill. In a few days, all sides will realize this and we just wont hit each others keeps while the other server is on with near equal numbers.

We’ll just be fighting to cap camps >5 mins of the tick, because that will be the only available PPT during NA primetime (or EU primetime on EU server). We will wait to hit keeps until the coverage of the enemy forces goes down enough to even attempt a push at a keep.

BUT

Your right, they have fixed mistakes before, but I think the thread is to explain WHY its a mistake, and how absolutely broken it makes the game right now. If they make a statement, then we can all relax then.

Seriously though devs, just ninja log into a tier 1 or 2 server and watch us try to take a keep. Skilled commanders that know what they are doing can’t get close.

Sorry for the QQ, but this really is important to the game. You will have people logging off out of frustration soon.

Wolfe, siege is not the problem, we love siege. The problem is that arrowcarts now prevent any siege from being built within cata range or closer. You literally cannot put supply on it fast enough to build it while those ACs are on it.

Now there is no fighting in open field, everyone’s just stopping and dropping arrowcarts in in the zerg. The fun part of the game was the open field warefare, now defenders hide in towers or huddle around their arrowcarts they built.

You cannot build any siege while the AC with SUPER AWESOME RANGE is firing. It makes rams and catapults USELESS. There is NO WAY in the game to block AC fire, its an aoe, not a projectile. That leaves Trebs and golums. Trebs now cannot be protected with ele swirls, so that means any mortars can blow the trebs up in just a few hits.

ANYONE who plays this game knows this is a TERRIBLE change. Its very very very bad.

This actually encourages large zergs. You need MORE people to take objectives now that every before. Everyone who thinks “YAY the end of zerging” isn’t thinking this through.

Your forgetting now you can’t protect the trebs from mortars in an inner keep wall that are unkillable. So no long range, no short range.

Why gear up? Why level a character? why buy weapons? Just hide inside the keep and spam ACs. lol

Best move in open field is to drop an arrowcart, not even fight each other now.

One guy with one superior arrowcart can hit the entire force with no aoe cap.

Why would I want to play a game where someone who I can’t see can down a force so quickly. Siege might, plus arrow cart mastery, plus superior arrow carts, plus no limit on building arrowcarts or aoe limit and on top of it a buff to damage. Unbelievable.

If this isn’t changed in the next 24 hours you will have a mass exodus of this game.

Avenge.1478:

Map/score update and off to bed!

Score: http://i.imgur.com/EqFmYoP.jpg

Look at the map and tell me SOR hits JQ. LoL

If you say it enough times people will believe you.

Mohmohchan.4120:

JaredKincade.9761:

Mohmohchan.4120:

what happened to blackgate?

We are not allowed to say.

please?

Its nothing, just the same thing every day and night. Its all good though, I leveled up in WvW xp three levels tonight. That’s about a level every hour to hour and a half lol. We certainly don’t have to run far for a battle, thats for sure.

Mohmohchan.4120:

what happened to blackgate?

We are not allowed to say.

Careful SOR and JQ, if you keep this up you will keep training us to be able to beat you both at the same time.

BGBL was some of the most fun I’ve had in this game to date.

Kreen.3925:

JaredKincade.9761:

Nuked.2360:

Vodka.3958:

gebrechen.5643:

I know where all the bg players are. They do pve to feed their sabotage troops on JQ which will build sieges in eb and jq bl next match..

Wait, that sentence was almost as ridiculous as the talk about 2v1. Nevermind.

Lol Blackgate is fine with being 2v1’d… Even though it doesn’t look good in points, it has definitely been increasing our WXP rank significantly :P

& sabotage troops???

If BG was “fine” with being 2v1’d wouldn’t they you know not complain about it? This is laughable given how much Jared kincaide complains about 2v1 on the forums. And before anyone asks we totally just all sit on the same TS planning it out. It goes like this : Guys we need to take Valley so SoR you take Durios we will take QL and then we will push Langor and Bravost at the same time and since we took Valley last time you guys can have it we will spawn camp BG! High Five

How much I complain? I seriously posted two times because that night in EBG was absolutely ludicrous. I even posted I understand the 2v1, we all use it. I’m talking about specific coordination, and do not sit there and deny it happens, I know for a FACT several of sor’s guild leaders PM several JQ guild leaders and coordinate attacks.

I am not “complaining about the 2v1 constantly”. I’m pointing out the extremes it has gone to this last week. You guys admit to it, by blaming 10 people who guested to LA. So your not saying I am wrong, your admitting I am right.

The fact is, when SOR and JQ fight each other as well as BG, BG has a chance to take first place if we push. You’ve rectified that mistake this week.

Jared, likewise for you, put down that shovel mate. You do yourself no favours.

No, in that you are correct.

But why don’t you head over to the first page of this thread and take a look at my first post here. Some of us were willing to help you guys out with the ram problem. We didn’t rub it in, or be sore winners. If you actually read what I am saying rather than what you expect a BG player to post, maybe you’d see that.

Its fine, I’ve made my points. All three sides know deep down whats happening on the field this week.

In the event nothing crazy happens, I do congratulate SOR on their victory over BG in points this week. When you guys push you can really push and thats not a joke. You guys worked hard for the points.

I also find it VERY VERY hypocritical your forum posters are allowed to blame ONE GUY for building rams on their loss, but when we talk about constant 2v1 that occur over and over and over again we are laughed at and ridiculed.