Guild Wars 2

imaclown.1628:

You are right, I have no idea what I’m talking about, I was so silly to think it was the fear proc that people used nightmare runes for, it never occurred to me that condition damage or duration would be beneficial to a condi necro. That must be why so many other classes use nightmare runes on their condi build.

They use it for the very same reason a necro would. A necro just gets more mileage out of it because of a few traits. The only real requirement to use the rune is an abundance of condition variety. Necros, mesmers, thiefs, and engineers all can deal multiple amounts of different conditions with ease. All other classes have less access to this variety, and would make more sense to specialize the duration for one or two conditions. But if they are going out slotting nightmare runes for an auto cc every 90 seconds, then yes, I am bold enough to say they are doing it wrong. You could replace the sixth part of the rune entirely and it would still be worth taking if your a necro, mesmer, thief, or engineer.

imaclown.1628:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Travellers kinda falls under everything. Seriously, it gives every stat.

You’re right, Lich gives the same amount, but it lacks condition damage.

Mad king too I think that’s in pvp? It’s only 10 but it adds quite a bit of bleeding duration.

Either way my point was you take nightmare runes for the fear proc mostly

You either don’t see or fully understand the overall potential the nightmare rune. A necro can deal blind, bleed, poison, fear, weakness, cripple, chill, burning and torment in a condition-based build. Five of those conditions can deal damage, six if you count confusion off corruption. Nightmare rune increases the duration of all of them. Think of the condition duration for conditions as you would celestial with across the board base stat increase.

Drarnor is right, no other condition damage rune gives that much. Keyword-condition. Lich and travelers falls under vitality I believe.

Necromancer:

• Locust Swarm: The casting time of this skill has been reduced from 1 second to 0.5 seconds.
  Dev note: This change will give necromancers a bit more mobility.

You could remove the cast time entirely and still not be more mobile. The dev note is just flat out trolling. How it made onto the page without thinking the choice of words through is most displeasing.

• Corrosive Poison Cloud: The casting time of this skill has been reduced from 1 second to 0.5 seconds. The cooldown on this skill has been reduced from 40 seconds to 30 seconds.
  Dev note: Because this skill has a subtle effect, we wanted to be able to cast it quickly. We also wanted to allow it to be cast more frequently so necromancers can use it for more consistent (though less damaging) area denial.

This is a descent change for a utility skill. But with its current effects, it will not compete for bar space with utilities such as plague signet or corrupt boon.

• Signet of the Locust: The cooldown of this skill has been reduced from 60 to 40 seconds. Base healing has been increased by 4%, fixing an issue that caused the Bloodthirst trait to grant 25% bonus healing rather than the 20% intended. The bonus from healing power has been increased by 108% base, 100% when traited with Bloodthirst.
  Dev note: We wanted to reduce the penalty for using the active portion of the skill and also improve the reward for having healing power.

Once again, since this is a utility skill, any changes made will be weighted against more staple utilities. Since it’s also a signet, means that the active needs to be great because the passive will be rendered useless every time we enter death shroud. To be in a position to use this skill to its maximum potential means you will most likely be at the receiving end of a focus fire, complete with full incoming disables. Hopefully, I won’t need to draw anyone a picture.

• Signet of Undeath: The passive life-force gain of this skill has been increased from 1% to 2%.
  Dev note: While this remains a low amount, we’re looking to provide more options for support when necromancers use this signet.

Another signet (see above). With this change, I will now be able to enter death shroud starting from scratch every 15 seconds instead of currently every 30 seconds while in combat. We’ve gone from cold to warm. Let me know when it goes from warm to hot as this skill had previously been nerfed beyond oblivion. The only way that I will slot this skill is if it ever returns to the very least, 1% per second.

Related:

• Rune of the Nightmare: The duration of fear applied from the sixth piece of this rune has been reduced from 2 seconds to 1 second. Its recharge has been reduced from 90 seconds to 60 seconds.

Where the hell is the evil grin emote when you need one, because believe it or not, the sixth piece of the rune is not the real strength of it.

style.6173:

If you think the necro is weak right now, I don’t know what to say.

It appears you missed the disclaimer statement. While there are more examples not mentioned in the OP, how can anyone not laugh at just those two alone? If the necro is not weak, it must be strong. Perhaps you think that since it is strong, it needs no improvements of any kind.

Disclaimer: This OP is not criticizing or complaining, just stating the first thing that came to mind when seeing things as below was to just laugh out loud.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reaper%27s_Touch
vs
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mirror_Blade

or

Allowing Death Shroud to expire normally will now trigger recharge cooldown.
vs
Allowing Stealth to expire normally will not cause Revealed.

I mentioned these things to Arenanet. They reassured me that they understood my concerns and to fear not, that my Necromancer would see improvements and soon. But what troubles me is when the statement was made, all I could visualize was…

Rising Dusk.2408:

Plague Signet is the worst of them all because if you are not facing your target, the skill will fail and go on cooldown and not even break stun.

It never fails, especially the stun break. It can however get blocked or los.

Elitist.8701:

If you’re getting stunlocked stop being a freaking zergbot and get off point. You shouldnt be in a position where you’re getting focused in the first place. Necromancer is all about positioning and if you’re caught out of position you always have the wurm to escape. Necro also has 2 stunbreaks and Plague. Plague especially gives you an insane boost in survivability and you can leave the point and have teammates cover while you heal. Yes, Thieves are a problem, but that’s why you have to pay attention to the map and always be watching for where the enemy thief may be. Deathshroud is one of the strongest mechanics in the game. If you’re finding yourself low on DS…. either stop dying or save it for when you actually need it instead of just sitting in it and spamming skills. I have played Necro, and while it’s certainly a tough class, it’s not UP at all.

In other words, Necro shouldn’t even play conquest. What the hell was Necros thinking going anywhere near a point.

No to diminishing returns. Yes, this opinion is coming from a Necro.

Terror over Dhuumfire, easily.

Reaper’s Protection should never get picked over Greater Marks if you have a staff equipped, especially with how often ele/eng/guards/war are throwing out blocks like candy.

Arenanet to Necros on attrition, bloodline, bug fixes:

lol @^, lag will always be the deciding factor in a match-up. This is the internet.

The only change I would make with bone minions, well all minions to be honest, is that they all now spawn via ground targeting just like the flesh worm.

I feel that stealth only needs to apply reveal when using an attack skill (regardless of whether it misses or blocked), and whenever it expires (even naturally). Stealth duration from combo fields should be increased since with this change, would no longer be able to stack.

Yes, anything goes, including use of profession mechanic. Just weapons only, no 6-10. So far seems people are leaning:

1. Ele
2. Nec
3. Guard
4.
5.
6.
7.
8. Eng

How would you rank the classes (in 5v5, skirmish and 1v1) if their 6-10 skills were locked out? Just curious as I usually start my online day using weapon skills only to warm up my skill rotations.

lorndarken.3702:

if anet has not addressed this issue back in gw 1 with some of the pets . what makes you think they are going to get on it now ?

I’m just going to go out on a limb here and just guess that the AI in gw1 is comprised of a lot less code, or otherwise just plain simple. Must be why minions in gw1 appears light-years ahead of gw2 minions in term of functionality.

Zoso.8279:

Thanks for the advice. Ill be playing around with it but its still a bit frustrating even have to try and go round something that seems (at least from an outside pov) so basic.

Good luck with that as it will take some getting used to. They will still however tend to bug out at times, usually just the golem, but you should definitely notice a difference in response. Another thing to mention is that minions tend to not forget about a target when the target moves beyond your argo range. Sometimes I think they keep track of them until the target (anyone that you tag or tags you with damage) dies or it moves beyond at least 10,000 units (or whatever the range is before minions are considered out of combat).

Zoso.8279:

I have made a post of this on the PvP/Bug/Necro sub-forums but I feel that until it gets resolved ill have to keep voicing my concerns. Many have made post of this and IDK the reason why it has not been fixed but it is a MAJOR not minor bug that needs to be fixed. Minions do not react when moving and ordered to attack. This doesnt happen 100% of the time but easily happens 45%+ of the time. Please Fix this ANET. Minions are everything to MM and if you run into a fight and 3 or 4 of your minions are just idle a few feet away from you and don’t engage thats half your DPS/HP on idle. Not to mention half my skills basically unusable because either golem is too far way or bone minions can’t blow up because they are not near the target.

Whats an MM without his minions? Free points.

You can cut your 45% down to about 15%-20% if you are willing to fight against enemies without actually targeting them. Use ground targetable aoe or point blank aoe for most attacks. Only target an enemy when using skills that needs a target to function, then immediately clear your target list. This will decrease the time it takes for your minions to return to your location before proceeding to your target, which is what they are trying to do when you see them just standing idle off in the distance. This is clearly not a fix for the minion behavior, just merely an observation, one that can be used to help Arenanet get a handle on the AI issue.

TheLastNobody.8319:

Honestly, I think necro needs the most help with just some team utility, we bring nothing to the table, and a way to not get focused down so easily in group play. Also, siphon buffs or as you said, stability…though they said in the recent ready up that stability doesn’t fit the necromatic theme for some odd reason.

Would love Minion AI fixes but it’s not the most important thing on the list.

I know every class has needs to have some weakness, just seem necromancer has more weaknesses than others…

Arenanet can buff Life Siphon base by 100% and increase it’s scaling by 150%. It will all be a mute point when you can’t get the skills off or, much less, complete the entire channel because you have no way to (say it with me people, Arenanet, dwellers underneath rocks, etc.) prevent yourself from getting interrupted.

I run (see link in sig) what most would probably call a hybrid MM build. Most of the damage from this build comes from conditions instead of the minions. However, if all cooldowns are up and with access to DS, it can spike lower health (less than 15K) classes from 100-0. It removes up to 7 conditions every 10 seconds when all 7 or more minions are summoned. It handles most 2v1 when played properly. I created this build to specifically deal with heavy block/blind eles, block/blind guards, diamond skin eles, pew pew rangers, turret engi, stealth-cloning mesmers, and blind thiefs. Avoid 2v1s where both enemies are hard CC users. All other 2v1s, line of sight one enemy while focusing on the other. You may have to send your minions to attack the one you’re los while you deal with the other. You can practice this technique against pew pew rangers.

zapv.8051:

In the ready up today, 10/17/2014, the devs went over a few balance changes that will occur in the next patch. They mention 2 changes:

Staff auto attack aka Necrotic Grasp: Projectile velocity increased by 50%

Dagger 2 skill aka Life siphon: Base healing increased by 25% and scaling increased by 75%

These are some good changes, Staff sorely needed this change and dagger 2 will be a much better sustain weapon now. The base healing of the dagger will now be 250 a pulse which totals at 2250 for the whole skill with no healing power.

You’re still a Piñata Necro. But if someone lets you get a full channel off, you deserve to kill them.

Epidemic only needs to gain about 6% life force if no conditions are transferred so that it’s not useless when engaging single targets.

GoogleBrandon.5073:

True, this game is mostly designed to not watch the UI, but the characters instead… focussing on both, especially if you are man (multitasking :P ) is kinda tough sometimes…

It could be a visual tell as well though, like a subtle Aura or a flying orb around the character like you had in GW1 with some skills (I might record some of that to let people know what I mean) – this will once more keep the focus on the opponent, and not on the UI

This would be the most elegant solution to Reaper’s Protection. An aura-like visual of skulls circling the necro when the trait is active.

If you take away Reapers Protection, what will you give the necro in return? None of the most vocal oppositionists ever include compensation with their arguments. Remember: blocks, invul, and more stability, healing are all off the table.

Merging traits would be better. There is no one should select more than two traits at any tier to max out a single weapon and three traits to max out a single utility skill group. I mean really, 4 traits just for staff, 6 for minions. I could perhaps see spending more than three just on DS, but it would still be a hard sell.

chronometria.3708:

I`m thinking we need one of those conditions that they had in warcraft, where, if it gets cleansed, it explodes and deals damage.

ib4 anti-Hex crowd rally to the cause.

Judging from your list, I run what you would probably call a hybrid minion master just to stomp pew pew rangers, lol at clone spamming mesmers, and crap all over turret engineers.

Damage reduction does not stack additively.

From what I’ve been reading, I think everyone would agree that Necromancers need to have a weakness. I get that, I really do. I just don’t agree with the number of weakness that is exclusive to the Necromancers only.

They should now reduce the requirement to enter DS from 10% down to 4%.

Mastering DS was never supposed to have been attainable. But since a few people figured out how to do it, the adjustment was inevitable. If you master it again, then you can expect to see a 1/4 sec cast on entry to ensure it never happens again.

1. kite like a boss

if you cant do that,

2. fg-charge, spectral grasp, well-corrupt boon, and warhorn 4 are all useful in keeping warriors in check.

In PvP, it’s not fine either as all your minions die whenever you go into the downed state. This is just a stupid change, as if minions are actually broken in pve and flesh of the master alone was to fix it.

Los the ranger while you send in the hounds, to bait them to get close if they want to kill you. You may have to do a few circles just to keep cover between you and the ranger. If you get caught in an open field fight, your dead.

Yes it’s sad to have this problem persist for this long. The longer they are alive, the minions pathing easily bugs out about 90% of the time whenever you have a target selected.

Do not select a target when running a mm build. Rely only on your ground targetable aoe until your minions catch up to you and start attacking on their own. Only select a target for target specific skills then clear your target list immediately after use. This is the only way you’re going to get the best performance out of your minions until they fix the AI.

I don’t really get why they need to change flesh of the master anyway. I mean, even if the minions entered an different level scaling area, they would only retain their current health values until they died. New summoned minions would have spawned with the appropriated health values. I can see how there might be an issue when down-scaling, but certainly not that much as a map would only scale a few levels in the entire zone. ‘’Well if it ain’t broke, we’ll fix it by breaking it.‘’ This flesh of the master change clearly wasn’t meant for pvp, but it’s certainly bug in pvp as well.

While it may scale with healing power you would need around 1600+ just to match the base output of healing signet.

If the new figures remain the same, how much would they need to reduce the cooldown in order to get similar results prior to the patch?

Well if your a condition necro, no more breaking keep doors or destroying trebs with golem charge now. If you’re lucky, you will only waste 5 mins in a 15 min match just dry humping them.

Epidemic, easily. Never try to rez an ally when an enemy necro has this skill on their bar. This skill must have ‘snowball effect’ hidden in it’s code whenever you don’t rez from range.

coglin.1867:

Jayce.5632:

It won’t matter how durable you are when you’re constantly trying to figure out which way is up after being slapped all over the map.

It will matter more if you learn to dodge CC skills and use your blinds.

Ok, I’ll bite. Just how long do you think a necro can ride that dodge and blind train?

coglin.1867:

Don’t you have to be durable in order to survive well enough to define a a battle as one of attrition?

It won’t matter how durable you are when you’re constantly trying to figure out which way is up after being slapped all over the map.

coglin.1867:

Poplolita.2638:

Also, no viable build has “35% up time on protection”. Don’t mislead people with misinformations.

Are you disputing my facts? Seems your making accusations with no context.

A “well” build with Ritual of Protection is not viable?

No, not viable

15/characters

Is it just me, or is Arenanet blatantly trying to pin spectral armor to every necro utility bar?

Rennoko.5731:

manveruppd.7601:

I didn’t quite get what Karl said about Unholy Sanctuary: what did he mean when he said it will “bypass its own cooldown”?

Means if your deathshroud is on cooldown, it will still trigger deathshroud (assuming you have life force) once you take lethal damage.

There is no way I would take this (grandmaster) trait. If I know I’m going to die, the last thing I want to do is start the next fight building up life force that I could have saved.

The necro needs adequate life force generation, no matter which spec they run. They can’t even use, or much less access their class mechanic without it. Necros shouldn’t have to take power based abilities in a condition based spec to fuel DS. Lastly, necros simply cannot stay in the fight when virtually all of their defense require the use of offensive abilities. Short of them dodging, you will rarely ever see a return of zero on your attack investment. Anything you throw at them is going to land, especially your disables which, in case you weren’t paying attention, effectively removes their defense from play. It’s like throwing your necro in at the quarterback position with only the center for your offensive line.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

Lana Del Rey.1873:

Here an example for you to think about:

If you destroy an ant nest, the remaining ants will build a new one.

Think about it.

Not if you do it right, there should be no ants left then.

If you are doing something, do it right, just an example for you to think about.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lana Del Rey.1873:

Here an example for you to think about:

If you destroy an ant nest, the remaining ants will build a new one.

Think about it.

Depends how you destroy it. Collapse it? Yeah, new one will be built. Flood it with molten aluminum? Not so much.

I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.

I know I’m setting myself up for failure, but I’m expecting life force generation to scale better against multiple targets and the removal of global internal cooldowns for a more unique/individual or per-single target cool down.

They should delay the balance portion of the patch to give each profession the attention they deserve.