Guild Wars 2

this would indeed be helpful and would actually add some more depth overall.

the reaper is overall too slow and the chill doesn’t make up for that nor does the broken leap.

in many cases i see myself forced to use the 25% movement speed in shroud trait to hit my autoattacks to not get kited, signet of locust doesn’t help here because signet passives don’t work in shroud sadly.

if you want to compare hambow to reaper, hambow also needed that 25% movement speed to hit attacks.

solution? make locust passive work in shroud.

1. Tempest (Overall): 1/10
2. Traits: 1/10
3. Warhorn: 2/10
4. Overloads: 1/10
5. Healing Skill: 3/10
6. Utilities: 2/10
7. Elite Skill: 3/10
8. Animations & sound effects: 4/10

tbh i’d rather have them delete tempest than having it added to the game.

there doesn’t have to be an aftercast, you can cut it by stowing weapon after the field is placed but it’s stupid if you have to do that if it’s possible to just remove it all the way.

nightfall is fine, the problem is the aftercast, its almost longer than the actual casting time.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Stinja.9612:

The might is point-less especially since you can cancel jade winds over and over to build 20+ might with a single trait. It will also bait out dodges from people if they know what to dodge on a Rev.

That’s a bug, thanks for pointing it out. It’ll be fixed for the next iteration of revenant.

only fix the might please not the cancel, baiting dodges with skill canceling is not an abuse but was frequently used on hambow or ranger entangle aswell.

that’s why, in a perfect world, you want to try and balance the game. if necro ranger and warrior are underperforming they need buffs. passive burn on ele is too strong so it needs a nerf and some things on mesmer like pu also need to have a look at.

ele
mesmer

guardian
thief
engi
necro
warrior

ranger

revenant

this should answer your question

ele was just as tanky so nothing has changed in that regard. abjured played 4 bunkers and 1 dps so obviously they were able to sustain until tomorrow.

the burning on ele is broken not because of the damage but because of the instant burn and this also goes for burn guardian. insta 3 stacks of burn is not balanced and has no counterplay.

dominik.9721:

Booms.2594:

Ravenmoon.5318:

It was pretty boring. Broken cele ele ftw … great pride and kitten.

There were exactly 0 interesting moments from Abjured. Most boring team worldwide.

thats a joke bro i almost fell asleep during the TCG vs ORNG matchup… half the match is bunkering the other half is decapping

right watching an cele ele 1v1ing a zerk warrior or a nec 1v1ing an ele is much more interesting lol. The comp carried Abjured, deal with it.

that’s the reason why abjured won, not because they are better players but because they had a better comp for conquest.

in the end it felt a bit like orng lost the concentration and the rotations got a little wonky. would have been nice if the team with the better skill won but oh well, still glad tcg got slapped in the face at least.

as we’ve all just witnessed in the wts, finals killing enemy players with a bruiser comp is not rewarding enough and not punishing enough for them.

i’m not going into details here and i am not rating the finals of this wts. something that i noticed today, and this is kind okittenward compared to other popular pvp games:

death cooldown is on a constant 15s during the whole match and that’s not punishing enough.

the best example was when orng kept killing abjured players on their close but eventually got killed themselves because abjured was able to just sustain and reinforce over and over again because the distance to the close point on forest is short and they were able to stay alive long enough to always keep at least 1 person on the node.

this does not only apply to the close point but to more or less many points in the game where killing a tankish player is less rewarding and way harder.

increasing the cooldown overtime would make the whole story a lot more interesting and competitive so i feel like the death cooldown should start out at 10 seconds on matchstart and gradually increase over time.

match start: 15s

+1s for every minute that passes

that would result in the following:

if the enemy is playing a sustain build and you put effort into killing them by outnumbering them later on in the game the death penalty should be longer, for both teams obviously so if a team plays a dps setup they will be just as punished for playing carelessly.

Farnes.4956:

Auto attack is to slow. I completly agree. It is not enjoyable to use and it should maybe get a very tiny attack speed boost.
Gravedigger for 4k? What the derk was you running? I have been getting 10k-15k crits whit it non stop. If you increase that skills damage it would be broken as kitten.
Death Spiral is a great opener to give vulnerability and whit and decent damage for what it do. ‘’vul is ok for decimate defense.’’ Vuln is GREAT in any situation do to a flat damage increase and it is fantastic whit Decimate Defence as it is literally a 24% Crit chance boost.
Nightfall is yet again a great skill. Stack up blind while keeping them in place and it synergise very well whit Soul Spiral as it is a Dark Field.
The Reason Grasping Darkness is missing all the time atm is because it will always get shot the way you are facing, not where you are aiming so it is weird to aim.

and that’s what carries death spiral, the damage is still too low, even with vul and with the life force.

gravedigger 4k was on celestial, nevertheless the highest i saw on marauder was 7k.

i never said nightfall was bad just that it had a stupid aftercast that is cancelable by stowing weapon.

got nothing to do with smart enough or not, especially when you play on a mechanical red switch keyboard it can happen that you press it too fast and it activates twice. every other (pvp) game i know of has a 1s cd on such toggles, even here the revenant upkeep skills have. it’s called failsafe because mistakes can always happen.

sword 3 needs an invul, anybody familiar with heroes of the storm might have seen the new monk with his 7 sided strike that looks similar, you become untargetable while using this skill. should also apply for the revenant’s skill.

the overall healing of the class is still bad and needs improving and so does the dps. giving the class a toggle quickness doesn’t make up for the low damage. if a necro attacks with a dagger he crits for 3-4k, if a revenant attacks he crits for 1,5k.

Malchior.1928:

Death spiral is actually pretty good. It can generate 12-36% life force, it clears blinds, stacks vuln, works well with leeching.

It just needs about 1/4-1/2 of a second taken off the beginning of the cast time to be effective.

the problem is the damage. on a light golem it deals around 1-1,5k damage when most of the hits crit. i mean come on.. a 2,5-3k hit is certainly not that crazy. the cd during the first reaper stream was also 10s, i dont see the reason why it was upped by 2s.

Tyriark.7825:

Jekkt.6045:

sorry but i dont agree and death shroud needs this aswell imo. now you’re gonna hate me for that statement but in the heat of battle in pvp it can happen that you spam f1 to get into shroud when its off cd to prevent death or whatever and in a worst case scenario you pop in and out and die.
same reason why they added the 1s gcd to elite transforms.

Whichever way you would try to put it, that would be considered a L2P crutch.

Bad idea.

it’s not a l2p crutch, it’s always possible that you have a stupid lagg at that moment

played with the greatsword today and i really tried to like it but certain things just won’t let me. here is what i suggest to make it an overall better weapon:

auto attack
there are 2 ways to improve the auto attack. either increase the speed of the auto attack chain by 1/4s each, making it 1/2 1/2 and 3/4 because the chill is really not that strong on it or increase the damage by 30%. secondly the 3rd hit needs to add 4-6% life force to make it worth hitting. the overall life force regeneration of the greatsword is too low for a melee weapon.

gravedigger
the damage needs to be higher, it hits for around 4k when you’re fully stacked with might. 6k should be a given if not more, so i’d say a 15-30% damage increase. the global cooldown of 1 second below 50% health needs to go, it feels like that awkward useless second that you actually don’t want to wait and it’s only there to interrupt your gameplay.

death spiral
if this skill wasn’t the weaponset’s life force generator nobody would use this. double the damage and reduce the cooldown to 10s instead of 12s. (vul is ok for decimate defense)

nightfall
this skill feels too limiting when you cast it and the after cast is oh so terrible (can be canceled by stowing weapon btw and makes you attack instantly without having to wait). reduce the aftercast by a lot and increase the speed of the whole animation, necro doesn’t want selfroots.

grasping darkness
i wonder if this skill missed more or hit more today. it’s very unreliable but imo easy to fix. the animation consinst of the “sending out” part and the “pulling in” part. remove the “sending out” part.

that’s it for the greatsword i will keep testing the reaper and post a summary of my impressions about it at the end of the beta. oh and this is pvp pov btw, i don’t play pve so forgive me for that

sorry but i dont agree and death shroud needs this aswell imo. now you’re gonna hate me for that statement but in the heat of battle in pvp it can happen that you spam f1 to get into shroud when its off cd to prevent death or whatever and in a worst case scenario you pop in and out and die.
same reason why they added the 1s gcd to elite transforms.

The Great Al.2546:

The problem with the water overload is that if I need a big heal/cleanse, then I need it now…not 5-10 seconds from now

but its not even a big heal, its like 2,5k lol

it works for some overcharges like water and air but it’s different for fire and earth. while fire just needs that whirl, earth is basically just an annoying aoe cripple with an immob and no real damage output. if earth at least pulsed aoe protection or stability.

ArthurDent.9538:

I am going to go ahead and try to be the optimist. Yes the overloads are weak, and in their current state will be completely outclassed by pretty much everything. The good news is that is largely an issue of number tweaking (though more on demand stability will likely be necessary, to not be complete interrupt fodder) and therefore it doesn’t necessarily need to stay under-powered. For instance we could just give them 10x more damage and then they will be overpowered so it is not a hopeless case (of course still waiting on scepter and glyphs to be made ok).
It does have two things going for it, the first is the effects for the spells are pretty cool looking and they generally have unique effects and feels to them. Animations generally are much harder to change than simple number tweaks so if they look terrible at the start, they likely won’t ever look any better. With these pretty nice animations, the skills generally are quite unique in their behavior compared to other skills in the game particularly the air and water warhorn skills.
The other big thing that tempest has going for it is that it will force you to completely change your play style to make it work. Some may see this as bad since “change is the devil” and it may ultimately not be as fun as a standard attunement dancer. However it is always nice to have a change of pace and something new to learn even if just for messing around with. Being forced to spend 5 seconds in an attunement to get the overload (assuming they balance overloads to the point where they are worth using) completely breaks the standard rotations, and forces you to change. Perhaps a new standard rotation will be learned, perhaps it won’t be very rotationaly based at all, or perhaps tempest will be forever nonviable, regardless eles will have to play quite differently with tempest then they traditionally have.

problem with fire overcharge: the whirl on it is bad, it gives you 1 whirl finisher. the skill would be great if it kept producing bolts from whirling through fields even when the fire tornado is a standalone.

problem with water overcharge: the heal is lol, not worth using at all

problem with air overcharge: i would never even consider using this. air auto attack does the job just as well and doesn’t ask for an interrupt or a focus.

problem with earth overcharge: this skill is a gtfo skill, no real use except disengaging because of the break bar. even for a spike setup its bad because it’s impossible not to foresee it.

Bhawb.7408:

The skill is absolutely fine if it took 1s to cast, no other adjustments needed.

if only the stability applied while casting it :P would make that 120s less painful. would still not pick it over plague form though.

i highly disagree, the reaper has a lot of potential and with some quality of life and fine tuning it will be a very nice spec.

the greatsword though is underperforming and i agree that chill does not have such a huge impact.

the mobility is fine, 600 range on 5s is more than most classes have by far. the problem of this skill is rather that it’s completely useless for anything than movement.

60s is fine, no need to nerf the chill or the stun, the skill would not be op but at least worth its elite slot.

pu chrono is quite crazy… the cooldown reduction from alacrity on stealth skills and blurred frenzy brings the cancer to a whole new level.

knockback dragonhunter can be annoying but imo is no real threat

tempest is a downgrade from d/d if you’re not intending to go full support

reaper is awesome and pretty balanced, some QoL and it will be a wonderful spec

what else than test season 3 could it be this time it will take 6 months and reward you with 2 pieces of inglorious armor, a llama with a hat and 100 gems for the top 5.

i knew that vampirism didn’t work in shroud but i always had the impression that at least spite plague and locust worked.

so i thought that maybe the reason for vampirism was balance issues but i can really not understand it for the rest of them.

robert is it possible to get the passive effects of the signets in shroud? excluding vampirism if necessary. this would certainly be another step in the right direction for necro

or at least make it a part of “signets of suffering”.

moving camera upwards doesnt work, stopped using this skill in actual combat as it just leaps you out of the point.

if you pick these traits you get a chill/immob/cripple reduction of -66% and -25%. if you get immob or chill or crippled it says 0 seconds but is still around 1 second.

correct me if im wrong but -90% on 2s is 0,2s

or is it 2s -66% = 1.32, -25% = 0,99s?

tempest is horrible, the pressure is bad, the survivability is bad, warhorn is terrible compared to dagger or even focus and the overcharges are useless and not worth using. fire overcharge is supposed to be a whirl; it has a one time whirl finisher.

shouts are basically aoe auras with some side effect that you don’t care about.

the only way i saw tempest being worth it for fresh air was if the overcharge channel carried on when switching attunement, the way it is with every other channel for eles.

the way it is: overcharge, switch attunement and it cancels

the way it should be: overcharge, switch attunement, attunement goes on 14s cooldown (with trait) but the channel keeps going until its over.

on a more offensive build like fire/water/arcane you don’t need the extra doom because leeching is damage + sustain instead of only damage.

doom was also used because there were engis and warriors around and the sigil actually helped you with lowering their sustain. now that it’s basically just eles (and sometimes necros) with celestial builds it won’t help you much because ele’s cant kill ele’s if they are on equal level and know their builds and weaknesses, and condis are useless against signet necros in general. you can basically kill everything you’re supposed to kill without doom, no need to pick it.

having said that, pick what you want as there is not really a must pick for d/d ele right now, you can go with doom or battle or smoldering or even air, blood etc if you feel like it. people just like leech and energy because it adds sustain against the now higher overall damage in pvp without losing too much damage.

10s with defending, 5vs5 involving a bunker guard and 2 eles.

double or tripple the health, and make the npcs usefull…. the lord dies in 10 seconds if the enemy has at least 2 dps which is very common…

guess necros without leaps can’t know this…

turning up your camera cuts the leap distance. burning speed is 600 range, only if you turn the camera up it is half the distance. that’s how all leaps in the game work.

well i don’t think he’s gonna name you all the stuff he has on his mind, that’s just not the type of guy he seems to be but at least he did say that he has some notes about axe scepter and more.

in a perfect world i would like to have a dev that is in charge of 1-2 classes and is able to play them perfectly. in reality we maybe have devs that have a mere 100-200 matches on them. still gotta make the best out of it i guess.

they’re out of range but this gives you the opportunity to leap in with shroud 2 and finish them off with shroud 5

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Jekkt.6045:

Flumek.9043:

Jekkt.6045:

pull on gs + gravedigger is also a setup

Maybe u could count how many times the skill fails in jebros hands idk but it looks as trash as our sidesteppable focus

if they dodge it then it’s already a good thing for you, even if they dodge the pull it means they can’t dodge gravedigger if they dodge a 2nd time. and as i have said many times, it’s still in beta so i’m sure anet will try to improve on clunky skills, they did so with revenant too they said.

If they dodge the pull, they don’t need to dodge Gravedigger. They’re out of range!

not necessarily, you could also use gravedigger for the pull, it’s a cc after all so you can setup gravedigger you know.

Charblaze.6958:

Jekkt.6045:

it’s still in beta so i’m sure anet will try to improve on clunky skills, they did so with revenant too they said.

Everyone here is on the edge because, given a.net history with necromancers, the most likely case is that we will get uncalled for nerfs and lackluster “buffs”. This can be already seen from the changes made between the specialization announcement and the gamescon streams. Kitten, they even nerfed the base profession to kill possible reaper skills – necro traits synergies even before allowing us to test the specialization. Add to that the slap in our face that were ele’s shouts vs reaper’s shouts cast times and cooldowns.

In my opinion the reaper will be dissected in BWE1, every fault pointed out and tons of dps calculations done. The necro forum will be filled with feedback, much rage at how bad reaper is, and tons of suggestions, same as revenant forum in the previous BWE. But while revenant will improve by leaps and bounds at every iteration, reaper will get the usual necro treatment: uncalled nerfs and cosmetic buffs.

I wish to be proven wrong, but it’s hard muster hope after years of necro “patches”.

so what do you wanna do? kitten everywhere on the necro forum? that’s not gonna help, if you kitten of the dev the chances of achieving something are even less so stay constructive, a motivated dev is a better worker than one that gets a stomach ache whenever he thinks about visiting the necro forums.

i am an elementalist main but i loved my dervish back in gw1 so reaper is also quite important to me and i will be posting a big thread where i will talk about the reaper (and the tempest and the revenant in different threads) from a PvP POV. i will surely not be the only one, so the more the better as long as they stay constructive.

zapv.8051:

Khristophoros.7194:

zapv.8051:

7k damage with 25 might isn’t good. A medi hammer guard could easily deal that much damage with 25 might. Also, reaper will not be sitting on a ton of might unless they run signets, which means they won’t be in zerker gear. Also, why bait and count dodges to land “big” damage on a reaper when you can take a thief or a mes and not have to worry as much about counting dodges because you actually have setups with stuns and stealth.

Reaper has a trait for might so you don’t need to do the signet thing.

zapv.8051:

My last point is that reaper won’t be great in pve, which is the gametype where necros need help the most. Even if your hitting 10k damage on gravediggers it still won’t be great dps, it would need to be upwards of 15-20k damage per gravedigger to be really good in pve and even then we are still behind the other classes in terms of support. Thankfully, there is time for input and change.

Your standards seem unrealistic. What hits for 10k with no cooldown or resource gating? Even with thief you end up having downtime.

My point is you won’t be sitting at 25 might the overwhelming majority of the time. There will be good might stacking, but not to the extent where your just constantly at 25 might.

My standards are not unrealistic. Gravedigger has a 1.25 second cast time, literally Helen Keller could dodge it. Also, that quoted damage would be for pve with pretty much every buff. In pvp, in a zerker amulet 10k would not be unreasonable considering how easy the skill is to avoid. Also, it isn’t about dealing 10k damage it is about dealing 10k dps, which a lot of classes can get to currently. It’s also the problem with reaper, if you land these big slow cast time skills you should be rewarded with more damage than literally everyone else because it was harder to land than everything else. 7k is how much dps gravedigger should do in a cele amulet with 20ish might, not a marauder amulet with 20ish might.

you do know that ele’s fire grab crits for around 7k on a fire build with 25 might against med-light armor classes but is on a way higher cooldown than gravedigger right?

Flumek.9043:

Jekkt.6045:

pull on gs + gravedigger is also a setup

Maybe u could count how many times the skill fails in jebros hands idk but it looks as trash as our sidesteppable focus

if they dodge it then it’s already a good thing for you, even if they dodge the pull it means they can’t dodge gravedigger if they dodge a 2nd time. and as i have said many times, it’s still in beta so i’m sure anet will try to improve on clunky skills, they did so with revenant too they said.

zapv.8051:

7k damage with 25 might isn’t good. A medi hammer guard could easily deal that much damage with 25 might. Also, reaper will not be sitting on a ton of might unless they run signets, which means they won’t be in zerker gear. Also, why bait and count dodges to land “big” damage on a reaper when you can take a thief or a mes and not have to worry as much about counting dodges because you actually have setups with stuns and stealth.

My last point is that reaper won’t be great in pve, which is the gametype where necros need help the most. Even if your hitting 10k damage on gravediggers it still won’t be great dps, it would need to be upwards of 15-20k damage per gravedigger to be really good in pve and even then we are still behind the other classes in terms of support. Thankfully, there is time for input and change.

so what, it’s the fact that a guardian can’t get 25 might on his own but a reaper can. and fyi, you can’t just take a thief or a mesmer and land all your damage without people dodging, maybe against stupid ones but certainly not against good ones. every good mesmer and thief count enemy dodges or wait for a dodge before they burst.

pull on gs + gravedigger is also a setup
or fear + shroud5

that depends on its ability to generate life force sadly, and as it seems right now dagger will be better but tests on friday will show.

as of now dagger generates 8% life force on roughly 2s so a theoretical number of 4%/s

greatsword generates 12-36 on 10s and 6-18 on 30s which is a minimum of 1.4%/s and a maximum of 4.2%/s

reaper shroud also generates 1%/s with auto attacks

it’s hard to tell how good it will be because reaper also gets % from blighter’s boon so it might equal to what we have now. but dagger will surely be more.

Bhawb.7408:

Kidel.2057:

heavy hits.

This is just factually inaccurate, it deals worse damage than Guard Hammer unless they very significantly boosted ratios, and everything we’ve seen so far says they didn’t.

fyi, if you’re running spite with reaper, which is something you should do, you will be sitting on perm 25 might stacks. the guy on the stream hit 5k auto attacks and his gravedigger and shroud5 crit for over 7k. tell me how guard can hit harder than that.

gravedigger has a 1s gcd if the target is under 50% hp so if you’re counting or baiting dodges and you’re able to hit your gravediggers you will literally be destroying their molecules because it’s a backstab without stealth and without a real cooldown.

because fresh air is more complex than an on hit trait and you essentially cripple yourself if you rush through attunements without using skills just to proc fresh air. fresh air is by far the worst dps spec in pvp right now but that’s a different subject.

without the icd reaper would be able to get close to 20% life force with greatsword 3 on a target.. the trait is still very good and equals to a 200 hp/s in form of life force if you maintain the chill which is not that hard with greatsword.

and the problem with feedback is the following: a dev has a certain thing on his mind, his vision of what the elite specialisation or the class as a whole should be like and most of the time they don’t stray from that path. the only feedback they usually regard is the one that doesn’t mess with their vision, everything else will be disregarded.

and that’s what they’re doing with necro. necro is the slow condition manipulating death guy and reaper is the slow hard hitting chill guy that you should be afraid of, if that’s gonna be the case is something we’ll see in a couple of days.

they nerfed chill for all classes and put an icd on a trait that deserved an icd?

increasing the cooldown on gs is something i don’t understand but it’s still beta so i’m sure robert will listen to feedback.

Samhayn.2385:

@nearlight I’m not saying they have to nerf it, I’m saying with the current track record they will nerf it.

what track record, afaik ele is still alive and so would shoutbow be if its damage didnt suck now. engi is also still tanky af, there is no track record.

not really, you’re not forced to use greatsword, daggers are still just as good. shroud attacks are very fast and reaper has a crazy good mobility with shroud 2 beating ele in sustained mobility by far.

the healing and selfsustain also looks very good and the sustained damage seems to be crazy with some strong burst damage on top of it.

still a free blind on 6s cd i guess.

the 1s on reaper is the duration for you moving 600 units, not 1s casting and then leaping. the blind happens after 1s so it works similar to ele’s evade frames on burning speed.

was rise ever considered viable? not as far is i know.