Guild Wars 2

the worst part of this whole balance patch are the power creeps that carry bad players by giving them broken stuff and passives. one of those culprits is the elementalist’s fire line giving the class access to a passive cleanse every 32s that deals 3k+ damage and is instant while providing 3 stacks of might, vigour and regeneration when traited with water. furthermore the line provides a fire shield that triggers blinding ashes instantly on hit.

i myself have been playing elementalist as my second profession ever created with close to 3000 PvP games on it, having seen everything from the old d/d ele, the new d/d ele and the d/d ele that almost dropped out of the meta up to this burn bot ele that is considered meta now. the problem with it is the amount of passives paired with the tankiness and the amount of damage it can put out. d/d ele used to be a tanky bruiser that was able to support allies, perfect in a teamfight but also able to hold a side node.

the build always used to be one of those that were easier to pick up, so the actual skill in it was how to save and support allies, providing healing and soft/hard cc.

nowadays it’s an almost unbeatable 1v1 burn bot that lost its true role. the skill it takes to play such a d/d elementalist is incredibly low and it truly saddens me to see so many people running around with it, thinking they’re good while actually getting carried by unbalanced skills and traits.

now before arenanet does something stupid and ruins the whole class i’m gonna list my proposed fixes here:

drake’s breath:
burning duration of each tick reduced by 1 second

ring of fire:
make this skill more consistent, sometimes it bugs out and applies 6-9 burn stacks instantly. the skill by itself is fine as you won’t take a single stack of burning if you just fight inside the ring or dodge through it.

cleansing fire:
burning stacks reduced from 3 stacks for 4 seconds to 1 stack for 8 seconds.
instant burns that deal 3k+ damage are bad for the game, especially if they’re offered as passive traits.

burning fire (trait):
either reducing the might stacks from 3 to 2 or reducing the might duration by 50%.

blinding ashes (trait):
this skill now needs 3 stacks of burning to trigger, internal cooldown removed.

these changes should help fixing d/d ele. having said this, d/d ele is not the only broken thing in the game right now, so are all instant burns that deal “burst damage” and PU.

oh and buff ele scepter

id rather have a legendary elementalist over a legendary tempest title tbh, i guess same goes for guardians

not like the shouts are worth taking over cantrips or arcane either. tempest as a whole is useless.

i always thought it had to do something with this:

http://wiki.guildwars.com/images/1/15/Ritualist-tango-icon-200.png

robert is already a very good dev for necro tbh.

back to the topic: might from the trait for 8-10seconds would be nice instead of the 5^^

Roy Cronacher.1576:

Jekkt.6045:

Roy Cronacher.1576:

If anything, we could tweak duration or stacks if it doesn’t feel good enough when you all get a chance to play it.

roy, would you please share your way of thinking with the other devs? i feel like some of the others would definitely profit from this, and the classes they work on too^^

I do. All of us on working on skills sit together, are all in the same meeting, etc. I’m involved in basically all things involving player combat. We always aim to constantly improve ourselves and our designs.

worst spec for pvp right now in the dps departement, most likely bottom tier together with marauder engi.

Roy Cronacher.1576:

If anything, we could tweak duration or stacks if it doesn’t feel good enough when you all get a chance to play it.

roy, would you please share your way of thinking with the other devs? i feel like some of the others would definitely profit from this, and the classes they work on too^^

no mention of a change here, this is one of the most terrible things of tempest, it makes you sit in an attunement.

as i have stated during the beta weekend, let us overload the attunement. during the channel we switch attunement, so the element goes on cooldown but the overcharge will still channel until it is finished.

fresh air will never be useful if you cannot do this and overloading + swap to air for shocking aura or fury is also not possible.

karl, make it happen, it won’t hurt anybody but it will help making it more fluid and immersive.

the way it should be:

overload air attunement
switch attunement during channel
air goes on cooldown but channel keeps going
fresh air resets air
you go back to air
channel ends somewhen and in a few seconds the next overcharge will be ready.
repeat

this is the only way i can ever see this work for a marauder fresh air ele, other than that it will be completely useless and ele will have, again and still, no viable dps build (for pvp) and we will be sitting on d/d ele eternally.

Knighthonor.4061:

Cleric works even better. With the toughness converted and the fury from traits, you would be gtg with larger self heals.

cleric doesn’t give you hitpoints, the condis will wreck you even harder and the damage is subpar aswell.

you won’t get resistance from mallyx skills if you don’t trait for it.

and idk why people don’t see the synergy between revenant and lyssa runes; it’s a 5condi cleanse on a 45sec cooldown, better than everything revenant has right now.

blurred frenzy, pistol whip; same kategory of skills. all of them are evades and all of them have the same counter: retaliation.

celestial will most likely still be the way to go even without access to many conditions because of the healing, the crit chance/damage and the vitality.

nothing else comes close to it, maybe soldiers but i don’t think it will be great.

my guess would be shiro+glinth+retribution/invocation. corruption won’t work because there is no self sustain in that line, something that the revenant lacks a lot.

so shiro will be mandatory for the leech
glinth will be mandatory for the boons
and retribution/invocation both provide defensive and offensive stuff

weapons sword/shield + staff with energy/generosity and lyssa or strength/hoelbrak runes

with the low damage output of mace i don’t see it being better than staff and sword. 25 might on those will hit like a truck and that with the protection and regeneration of glinth will kill.

guardian elite refills virtues, how can it be the same?

can we skip the two years it took to make engi shield 4 mobile and just do this for the revenant from the beginning? shield 5 it is

tbh i wouldn’t care about this at all if the system actually matched premades with premades,

3man + 2 pug vs 3man + 2 pug
2man + 2man + 1 vs 2man +2man + 1
4man + pug vs 4man + pug

stuff like that

sadly this is not the case and it happens way too often that it is something like 3man vs 5man pemade.

i dont agree with anything you suggest sorry, your suggestions are designed for people that don’t use their brain and nothing else.

ring of fire? what’s so hard about it, you don’t eat a single burn if you just stand in it or dodge out of it. the only thing that needs to be fixed is the bug with uneven ground where this skill applies 6-12 stacks for no reason.

cleanse on cantrips? cleanses have been randomized. i could understand it if it was the way it used to be, cleanses remove the newest condition, how many times have i cleansed those 10 bleeds that ranger apply just by cleansing with it after an auto attack of shortbow. that’s not the case anymore, cleanses remove one random condition. no need to nerf this.

shocking aura, seriously? who cares about WvW, there is no balance anyway and if you don’t attack you don’t get stunned…

8.5s attunement cooldowns, i don’t really see a problem with those either.

things that need to be addressed are:

- instant burns from cleansing fire, they need reduction in stacks
- might from cantrips, need reduction in stacks
- blinding ashes blind, needs to proc on X stacks of burning
- drake’s breath damage is applied too fast, less stacks, longer duration or -1s per pulse

tbh all auto attacks on scepter are crap, the only reason why you use air is because it’s a channel and works well with fresh air.

the reason why you would ever use water auto attack is because shatterstone is crap and the other skills deal less damage + it’s still faster than earth and fire.

earth is crap because it’s slow and the damage is low

fire is crap because it’s even slower

scepter needs an overhaul of at least 50% of its skills, making it faster and giving it kiting potential.

psst, don’t say it too loud :P

sword deals more auto attack but all other skills don’t deal any, staff is overall a better weapon than sword.

Archaon.9524:

Jekkt.6045:

skills like judges intervention and cleansing fire need nerfs because they are instand without a tell. zealot’s flame on the other hand… it’s a big blue glowing thing flying towards you… that’s a l2p issue.

that’s zealot’s fire…

ok that you’re an ele and you probably don’t give a kitten to what ppl can throw at you, but at least l2read before posting bs

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Zealot's_Flame

“l2p” without even knowing what ppl are talking about..avg forum community lmao

it’s still l2p.. the radius is 180, that’s literally nothing.. walk away from it, guardians don’t have any swiftness on burn guard…

skills like judges intervention and cleansing fire need nerfs because they are instand without a tell. zealot’s flame on the other hand… it’s a big blue glowing thing flying towards you… that’s a l2p issue.

person A did reaper and chrono, both pretty good elite specs, person B did tempest and dragonhunter, both elite specs that could be better. i will laugh if thief elite spec turns out as plain as the other two. glad person A is currently working on warrior’s elite spec too.

changing values, numbers and effects is not a big deal but if it comes to remake whole animations then i don’t think they will.

i don’t think that’s gonna happen anytime soon anymore now that the expansion is coming out and the base game does not get sold anymore.

H is for PvE/WvW, or just to equip gear (gear is cosmetic only in pvp and you get the full armor stats by just wearing body legs and boots).

the pvp build menu is for sigils, runes, amulets, weaponsets and specialisations. the stats will be shown in that menu, right bottom side in the first menu where you also select the weapons and sigils. selecting the stuff “activates” it, when you select something there it’s instantly applied.

if you want risk/reward play fresh air, although the reward couldbne better the risk is definitely there.

support should not be based on risk/reward, so that’s already a flaw in its design.

the game is dying, there are 2 eu longtime top teams and 1 in na… esl go4 cups rarely have a full bracket..

people crying about how f2p would bring in immature scrubs
people saying that cs isn’t f2p either

so… the obvious result…

make a pvp only version of the game and sell it for 5-10$, even if it’s with the new elite specs and revenant.

now with glinth and the defensive shield, can we get a defensive mainhand aswell? i feel like for a support you want shield and staff, but all the mainhands right now don’t fit well in that role. mace is more of a condi weapon and sword more of a power weapon, both don’t offer any active defense like for example the guardian’s mace

any words on that, roy?

Archaon.9524:

Jekkt.6045:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Jekkt.6045:

some simple tricks against d/d eles to avoid the burning damage. now this won’t make you win but it makes you last a bit longer:

drake’s breath: don’t dodge it if you can interrupt or block it. if you dodge it a portion of the channel will still be able to hit you.

burning speed: needs to be dodged, usually comes right after attuning to fire OR after drake’s breath. (also possible: drake’s breath -> fire grab -> burning speed)

ring of fire: only dodge out of it or walk out if you have a block up.

cleansing: cleanse after fire, cleansing when the ele is in any other attunement does not give you as much as in fire. this is important for example engis.

cc: if you want to cc an ele, fire is the right moment, you disrupt their gameplay and you take their pressure out for a moment.

burst: after they left water OR you’re sure to take them out.

your stunbreaks: don’t break stun if they don’t follow up with a burst like burning speed. if you want to burst and they have shocking aura, make sure to use stability.

This is stupid and gets under my skin (Which is a hard thing to do).

We’re making strategies for “how to slowly die against a d/d” because winning is not feasible.

if only your answer is stupid, how do you intend to beat an attrition build when attrition is it’s speciality…

my post is intended to help people stay alive long enough for their teammates to arrive and 2v1 the ele or to put something equally strong on the point.

with “equally strong” you mean another cele d/d i suppose xD

or a bunker guard, rifle engi, another dd or a shoutbow, a clestial necro.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Jekkt.6045:

some simple tricks against d/d eles to avoid the burning damage. now this won’t make you win but it makes you last a bit longer:

drake’s breath: don’t dodge it if you can interrupt or block it. if you dodge it a portion of the channel will still be able to hit you.

burning speed: needs to be dodged, usually comes right after attuning to fire OR after drake’s breath. (also possible: drake’s breath -> fire grab -> burning speed)

ring of fire: only dodge out of it or walk out if you have a block up.

cleansing: cleanse after fire, cleansing when the ele is in any other attunement does not give you as much as in fire. this is important for example engis.

cc: if you want to cc an ele, fire is the right moment, you disrupt their gameplay and you take their pressure out for a moment.

burst: after they left water OR you’re sure to take them out.

your stunbreaks: don’t break stun if they don’t follow up with a burst like burning speed. if you want to burst and they have shocking aura, make sure to use stability.

This is stupid and gets under my skin (Which is a hard thing to do).

We’re making strategies for “how to slowly die against a d/d” because winning is not feasible.

if only your answer is stupid, how do you intend to beat an attrition build when attrition is it’s speciality…

my post is intended to help people stay alive long enough for their teammates to arrive and 2v1 the ele or to put something equally strong on the point.

some simple tricks against d/d eles to avoid the burning damage. now this won’t make you win but it makes you last a bit longer:

drake’s breath: don’t dodge it if you can interrupt or block it. if you dodge it a portion of the channel will still be able to hit you.

burning speed: needs to be dodged, usually comes right after attuning to fire OR after drake’s breath. (also possible: drake’s breath → fire grab → burning speed)

ring of fire: only dodge out of it or walk out if you have a block up.

cleansing: cleanse after fire, cleansing when the ele is in any other attunement does not give you as much as in fire. this is important for example engis.

cc: if you want to cc an ele, fire is the right moment, you disrupt their gameplay and you take their pressure out for a moment.

burst: after they left water OR you’re sure to take them out.

your stunbreaks: don’t break stun if they don’t follow up with a burst like burning speed. if you want to burst and they have shocking aura, make sure to use stability.

tbh what axe needs is 900 range and a better auto attack. maybe a faster skill 2.

it’s by far still the weakest class and i’m glad we’re having this beta and i’m even happier about the fact that roy invests so much time in reading feedback. i wish karl would do that aswell (or at least answer threads like roy does, never know when devs actually read stuff. i would dance infront of the anet office if they one day added a “read by a dev” icon on forum threads.

the problem with the revenant is the class design, similar to thief with initiative and no cooldowns on most skills it is very hard to attain perfect balance. skills need to be good but then again not that good that you want to spam them.. or they need to be expensive that you can’t spam then.. and then suddenly you’re at a too high energy cost and you have to reconsider everything again.

i think he’s got a hard challenge with his first class.

update: added names to most of the skills and currently working on traits.

i do envy him that he gets to design a class but i do not envy him for designin the revenant. the revenant is a very delicate class in matter of balance.. and i have yet to be convinced that it actually works out other than looking cool (which it does).

the problem with tempest is that the support is low for an all out supporter, so people think its a bruiser like d/d but the damage compared to dd is lower. the survivability of tempest is also lower, the traits have nad synergy, shouts suck and half of the warhorn skills are bad and all overcharges are useless most of the time.

if you wanna give a toyota to people that already own a ferrari they won’t be impressed if it’s a rival in the same category.

but that’s not what this thread is for, i’d like feedback for my stuff, not for tempest^^

Jski.6180:

Raif.9507:

Mightybird.6034:

Nice ideas, but there’s basically 0 chance of them starting over at this point (in open beta) and implementing that much change/work.

You’d be far better off in offering suggestions on how to fix the current tempest than a total rework like that.

You realize they promised up to 3 elite specs where only 1 will be on HoT launch right? This could be an idea for a future elite spec.

As long as they are not stronger then the ele base class with out giving up some major tools that ele has. I am not sure where the 3 number your talking about is coming from i understand that they may end up adding endless number of elite spec in the future we may even start to see them come with the LS.

this is an idea for a future elite spec^^ i’m not trying to get them off tempest. it’s a concept for a berserk ele that is able to hold its ground without having to rely on earth or water traitlines.

Traits

Adept

Minor – Elemental Weaving:
Unlocks Weaver attunement spells, sword mainhand and stances.

I – Hotheaded:
When chilled or crippled, gain superspeed for 3 seconds after using a weaver spell (on attunement swap). cooldown 20s.

II – Combination Benevolence:
Cleanse a condition when you trigger a combo field finisher. (depending on balance this might need an internal cooldown because of the water line)

III – Swirling Aura:
Increases vitality of nearby allies by 150.

Master

Minor – Weaver’s Perseverance:
Combo fields last 2s longer.

IV – Ferocious Stances:
Deal 20% more damage when using a stance.

V – Combination Quickness:
If you successfully use a combo finisher through a combo field, its cooldown is reduced by 20%. (works for projectiles, whirls, blasts, etc it is the combo finisher that gets reduced cooldown, not the combo field). (does not work for attunement weaver finishers like the blast on fire+air).

VI – Malicious Weaving:
Weaver Combination spells apply conditions to nearby foes:
water+fire = 2 stacks of burning for 2 seconds.
water+air = weakness for 4 seconds.
water+earth = immobilize for 2 seconds and 2 stacks of bleeding for 4 seconds.
fire+air = 4 stacks of confusion for 3 seconds.
fire+earth = 1 stack burning for 2 seconds and 2 stacks of bleeding for 6 seconds.
air+earth = cripple for 3 seconds and 4 stacks of bleeding for 5 seconds.

Grandmaster

Minor – Weaver’s Frenzy:
Gain one stack of Weaver’s Frenzy each time you use an attunement combination spell for 10s.
Weaver’s Frenzy: Increases your attack speed by 3% for 10s. Caps at 5 stacks.

VII – Shared Stances:
+20% Stance Duration. Stance durations lower cooldowns of other stances by the same amount (eg. 5s stance lowers the cooldown of stances by 5s, 10s stance by 10s etc. not instant but 1 second each when in a stance). Stance cooldown reduction doesn’t work on on the stance that is currently in use, meaning the healing stance won’t reduce its own cooldown when used. multiple active stances still reduce cooldowns only by 1s and not by 1s per active stance.

VIII – Combination Power:
Combo field finishers have 150% effectiveness. (means water leaps/blasts heal for x1,5 and fire blasts give you 4,5 might stacks which is 4 rounded i think, auras have 1,5x duration and whirl/projectile finishers apply 1,5x their condition duration).

IX – Ether Prism:
Increases your vitality by 300 points based on effective level. condition duration is increased by 50% when wielding a scepter.

Stances

Glowing Aura (Healing Stance):
Heal yourself and leave healing orbs behind. intial selfheal around 6000, 1 healing orb per second (400 heal per orb), 8s stance duration, 1s casting time, 40s cooldown

Double Dragon (Fire Stance):
Increase burning damage, gain might and burn foes around you. burning damage increased by 15%, 5 stacks of might (5s), burning radius 240, burning duration 3s, interval 1s,stance duration 5s, 70s cooldown

Maelstrom (Water Stance):
Surround your body with mystic water, healing you over time and removing 1 condition when hit (1s icd per enemy player). 8s stance duration. around 150 heal/s, 50s cooldown.

Enervating Charge (Air Stance):
Your body is charged with electricity, making you run and attack faster. 5s stance duration, 5s quickness and 5s superspeed, breaks stun. 60s cooldown.

Iron Mist (Earth Stance):
Magnetize your body, pulling sand towards you granting Protection (5s) and leave small blinding fields behind when you move. 5s stance duration, breaks stun and 50s cooldown

Elemental Lord (Elite Stance):
Transcend your elemental powers for a short duration, making critical hits reset all attunement cooldowns (1s ICD) and doubling the effectiveness of fury. 10s stance duration, 3/4 casting time, 120s cooldown

Disclaimer: This is an idea for a future elite specialisation and was not made in order to replace Tempest. I tried to give close range melee dps options (offensively and defensively) aswell as some options for condition scepter players.

Introduction

Weavers are Elementalists that are capable of weaving elements together, allowing them to use combination effects for their fluid fighting style, using a sword as their main weapon.

While their name sounds harlmess they should not be taken lightly, they are slippery, fast and when things don’t go too well they still have some aces up their sleeves: elemental stances.

Specialisation Mechanic

(weaver attunement spells have an internal cooldown of 8.5s to match them with the attunement cooldown of the arcane line)

Swapping attunement will weave them together, causing an effect at your current location depending on which attunements are used together. Instead of your attunement icons the combination spells will be shown expect for the attunement you’re currently in, which will show its normal icon.

Two attunements will always be tied together, going from attunement A to B will have the same effect as going from B to A.

Fire Attunement + Water Attunement
Steam appears at your location, blinding foes standing in it (smoke field, similar size of a thief’s pistol 5). if a smoke field would be too strong it could simply just be a blind field.

Fire Attunement + Air Attunement
The Air around you explodes, knocking enemies back. (a small knockback similar to engi’s turret knockback. blast finisher).

Fire Attunement + Earth Attunement
Melt the ground below your feet. (lava font, a fire field, similar to ele’s staff 2 on fire).

Water Attunement + Air Attunement
Electrifies water on the ground, creating a lightning field that stuns enemies crossing it.

Water Attunement + Earth Attunement
The ground under your feet turns to mud. (creates gunk at your location, similar to thief’s stolen engi item, applying random conditions, ethereal field).

Air Attunement + Earth Attunement
Magnetize the area around you, destroying projectiles. (a magnetic field that destroys projectiles when you stand in it).

Sword Skills

Fire

Auto Attack:
Chain:
Slash your foe. 1/2s casting time
Slice your foe. 1/2s casting time
Set your sword ablaze to burn your foe with a final strike (1/2s), giving you one stack of might (15s). 1/2s casting time.

Skill 2 – Smoldering Dismemberment:
Deliver a fiery cone slash with increased range. 1/2s casting time, 5 target cleave 15s cooldown

Skill 3 – Star Burst: Pierce the ground with your sword, sending fire blasts along the ground, causing heavy damage to enemies hit. 1/4s casting time, 25s cooldown

Water

Auto Attack
Chain:
Slash your foe. 1/2s casting time
Slice your foe again. 1/2s casting time
Turn into mist, evade for 1/2s, and damage your foe with a final strike. 1/2s casting time

Skill 2 – Slippery Leap:
Dash forward (600 range), leaving an ice trail behind you (narrow long ice field) and chill enemies hit by your strike for 2 seconds. (leap finisher) 1s casting time (whole leap duration) 15s cooldown.

Skill 3 – Ice Prison:
Stab your foe with a frozen sword, engulfing them in ice and stunning them for 2 seconds.
3/4s casting time. 25s cooldown.

Air

Auto Attack:
Chain:
Slash your foe. 1/2s casting time.
Slice your foe. 1/2s casting time.
Teleport to your target, strike them and blind nearby enemy players (1/2s or even 1/4s). 300 range 1/2s casting time.

Skill 2 – Lightning Retreat:
Strike your foe and “bolt” backwards. 1/4s castimg time, 600 range, 15s cooldown

Skill 3 – Invoke Lightning:
Strike your foe with your sword, sending lightning bolts through their body, deriving the bolts to nearby enemy players and causing weakness (6s) to all enemies hit. 3/4s casting time. 15s cooldown.

Earth

Auto Attack:
Chain:
Slash your foe. 1/2s casting time
Slice your foe. 1/2s casting time
Strike your foe, causing a magnetic impulse around you, reflecting projectiles for a very short duration (1/2s or even 1/4s). 1/2s casting time

Skill 2 – Earthen Shackles:
Block incoming attacks for 3 seconds, crippling (2s) and bleeding (6s) them for each time they hit you if they are close to you. 30s cooldown, 3s duration, 240 radius

Skill 3 – Stone Wave:
Leap at your foe (600 range), tearing up the ground, dealing heavy damage and cause cripple (4s). 1s casting (whole leap, leap finisher) 25s cooldown

just turn hotjoin into RA, a 5v5 match with no waiting time and no mmr and what so ever. cannot leave or switch sides.

unranked a bit more competitive

and ranked for leagues.

quick list of stuff that needs tinkering:

auto attack:needs a lot more damage, the cone in which you are able to fire your arrow at an enemie is too narrow, thief’s cone on shortbow for example is double the width and needs a faster projectile speed or homing so it’s not sidesteppable.

skill 2: needs to be usable while moving and more damage…

skill 3: more damage and the cone in which it destroys projectile needs to be wider and last longer.

skill 4: vigour a bit longer would be nice and this field needs to be fire, not light – that’s really important

needs to be fireable behind yourself like combustive shot and arcing arrow.

skill 5: faster animation

basically when you compare this to warrior longbow or ranger longbow it’s:

warrior > ranger >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> guardian

you dont flash shroud in pvp in a fight without using its skills, that would be beyond stupid. a 10s cd on shroud because you flashed it can mean certain death against a mesmer/thief combo or in a teamfight, people count cooldowns you know.

i dont believe this is important for anyone other than pve players

my wishlist: scrap tempest and add a sword duellist with stances. problems solved.

reaper needs buffs if anything. it’s underperforming compared to current metabuilds.

/thread

got nothing to do with slow or not, the only upkeep that should have a casting time is the elite upkeep because.. it’s elite.

impossible odds casting time: 0s

vengeful hammers casting time: 1s

can we have vengeful hammers also at 0s? would make so much more sense for an upkeep skill and would make using it more fluid :P