Guild Wars 2

would be nice if we could at least choose the stat points, but as it seems they will just be put on armor instead which will again limit variety because i assume that power gear will have more power on it, and not vitality.

i’m not saying the trait rework is all bad but this just caught my eye and i would, as a game dev, not make the same decision and limit the traits (and also the stats).

currently you’re able to spend points in all the lines simultaneously, the most popular build using this would be medi guard with 0/1/6/1/6.

by forcing us to spend all our points in 3 lines only this will cut down build diversity and is imo not a good thing.

a response by a dev would be appreciated.

MandJ.8965:

Everytime I talk to Toptier Players, or the good WvW Roamers

there’s your problem, you talk to roamers.

d/d and shoutbow were designed to hold nodes, support allies and outsustain everything that tries to take the node away from them, sacrificing a lot of damage for that compared to their berserker or condition counterparts.

it is your own problem if you engage them in a 1v1 instead of doing your role in a match by +1 fights… or winning teamfights with your own support classes.
PvP is not balanced around 1v1.

BlackTruth.6813:

Just pathetic. Even shoutbow is balanced compared to those and shoutbow is easy and effective.

lol

they reset

Tim.6450:

Jekkt.6045:

there are certain builds or classes that are better against certain builds or classes but there are no full counters in this game.

Shoutnow comes pretty close and diamond skin can easily ruin a condi user’s day.

and defensive conditions are usually of a short nature, 3s blinds etc, and are not cleansed most of the time because you don’t want to waste a cleanse if it’s not necessary.

spinal shiver 5 second chill,enfeebling blood 6 seconds of weakness, signet of spite 10 second cripple, weakness, weakness from corrupt boon 10 seconds,… . All of them stacking in duration.

i agree on diamond skin but it’s a very useless trait anyway and i would be very glad to have it changed any time.

cleansing these conditions is always situational, at least for me, if i’m already in melee range i will not cleanse the chill if i’m not in trouble, same for the cripple – though i always cleanse spite if i can.
do i want to burst? so i get rid of the weakness first.

it’s not much different for a mesmer that removes boons with the interrupt shatter and applys vulnerability before using mind wrack.
i don’t have the capabilities to remove all these conditions all the time and neither can the mesmer remove the boons all the time.

as i mentioned before, neither ele nor engi rely on might stacking anymore and usually have 5 or less in a fight. only warrior is still stacking might effectively.

celestial requires a number of conditions, direct damage skills, frequent healing, durability, cleansing and disengages to refill your hp.

this is the reason why war engi and ele are good with celestial and thief mesmer ranger necro guardian aren’t.

- thief, no burning, only bleed and torment, no good direct damage on p/d.

- necro, bad mobility and bad healing.

- ranger, healing is not frequent enough and the weapons that have condis suck in direct damage.

- mesmer, weakness to conditions and not the best healing appart from mantras. mesmer is bad on point aswell.

- guardian has the least access to conditions, bad ooc mobility and while the class has access to meditation heals they scale badly with healing power and are on a long cooldown.

you’re wrong on that. gw2 is keeping the hardcounters low and imo that’s the right way to do it. after all this isn’t rock paper scissor.

there are certain builds or classes that are better against certain builds or classes but there are no full counters in this game.

and defensive conditions are usually of a short nature, 3s blinds etc, and are not cleansed most of the time because you don’t want to waste a cleanse if it’s not necessary.

a static discharge engi can put out a good amount of damage, you can even oneshot people with it but the problem is the survivability its weakness to cc and condis.

i’d say lets wait for the expansion and the new weapon – the hammer.
this may be a lazy answer but even so there won’t be any big changes before heart of thorns anyway.

because celestial holds nodes and heal allies while berserk kills players to get nodes.

condi specs are just not a big part of the meta anymore because celestial support happens to have a good amount of team cleanses and cleric is less offensive than celestial.

SobeSoul.6910:

Jekkt.6045:

how is it the most used amulet?

ele: celes/berserk
guard: berserk/cleric
engi: celes/rabid
necro: carrion/berserk
mesmer: berserk
thief: berserk
warrior: celes/soldier
ranger: berserk/carrion/celestial

that’s 4 celestial (counting ranger)
and 6 berserk

Lol. No one plays celestial ranger on a serious level.

doesn’t matter for this comparison.

no they didn’t nerf ferocity in pvp.

how is it the most used amulet?

ele: celes/berserk
guard: berserk/cleric
engi: celes/rabid
necro: carrion/berserk
mesmer: berserk
thief: berserk
warrior: celes/soldier
ranger: berserk/carrion/celestial

that’s 4 celestial (counting ranger)
and 6 berserk

of course boon hate is less present than boon spam, as i said, boons are defensive elements of certain classes, like protection and vigour for ele, if boon hate was as common as applying boons there would be no reason to give these classes the boons at all.

i’m not against the boon removal of spinal shivers but against the random damage, which can even crit up to 5k.
arenanet got away from this as you can see with the revenant, he has a trait on a 20s cd that casts the mallyx skill when the enemy has more than 3 boons, it applys confusion but no insta 3-5k damage.

and believe me, the chill would cripple, especially ele, more than the damage. chill of death is just as bad in terms of design as panic strike and incendiary powder.

when will people learn that it’s not their job to 1v1 builds that were designed to hold a node, especially not with berserker.

the amulet is totally fine, in fact it’s even only good on 3 classes…

Sagat.3285:

Jekkt.6045:

33% on a 2s cd on hit seems fair, chill is one of the strongest conditions ingame and with this necro would be able to keep a high chill uptime, making it impossible for enemies to disengage.

people don’t take chill of death because of the boon removal but because of the random high damage proc… i’d rather have the chill uptime over the damage, especially because it keeps procing all the time and not just once and would help the low mobility necro kiting enemies. necros already have good access to boon removal anyway…

The actual Spinal Shivers is easily avoided same as well, all three celes manage great uptime protection, chill doesn’t do damage the great aspect is that that you get both without that horrible cast time on focus if you want permal chill it is possible with sigils and rune. There is a reason mesmers use boon removal on shatter, and thieves BT taking away that regen,protect and vigor will do more than slowing the inevitable.

Also no, necro doesn’t have good enough access to boon hate, why aren’t they praise as a counter of this meta?? Boons are what makes celes strong but why aren’t the necro facerolling them? 33 % is horrible Reaper’s Precision is 33% with no ICD on LF and is a adept trait why is not chosen? You must like RNG don’t you?

reaper’s precision is 33% on crit, thats a bit more than 15% chance if you have at least 50% crit chance, that’s an entirely different story – my suggestion is 33% chance for chill on hit.

necro is not a boon hate class but a boon corrupt class. mesmers have boon strip on shatter to rupt stability stomps on demand and thieves have bountiful theft so that they can use sleight of hand against stability.
power necros don’t have on demand boonstrips so it’s almost useless anyway.
condi necros are counters to boons, the reason why celestial kills necros is not because of “celestial” but because of the mobility (and cc for engi) that those classes bring. if they get low they can kite and regain health while a necro can’t, they come back and kill you.

and boons are not (only) what makes celes strong, the boons are always there for those classes. it’s the access to good healing and hybrid skills which excel with the stats of the celestial amulet.
ele and engi don’t even rely on might that much anymore, i have maybe 5 might stacks in a normal fight; boons are their defensive mechanism.

and btw, perm chill means +66% cooldown increase for enemy skills, that is extremely strong against everything except thief.

33% on a 2s cd on hit seems fair, chill is one of the strongest conditions ingame and with this necro would be able to keep a high chill uptime, making it impossible for enemies to disengage.

combine it with a sigil of ice, runes of ice and the upcoming greatsword that will have chill on the 3rd hit of the auto and you will have perm chill + perm +7% damage.
so before you talk and tell me to “get off necro” you should better check facts.

people don’t take chill of death because of the boon removal but because of the random high damage proc… i’d rather have the chill uptime over the damage, especially because it keeps procing all the time and not just once and would help the low mobility necro kiting enemies. necros already have good access to boon removal anyway…

i’d rather have them change chill of death from random spinal shiver proc to something like “33% chance to chill enemies for 1s with your attack when they are under 50% health. 2s ICD”.

close to death is similar to bolt to the heart and executioner, nothing wrong with those traits.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I’m not a huge fan of VoD for the following reason:

Let’s say you push through both of the enemy’s gates and they get through none of yours, but you cannot kill their lord before VoD. Now they all walk out and your enemy gets a free shot at your lord even though you were ahead the whole game. I dislike the idea that your work up to VoD doesn’t matter, and at that point it comes down to a zerg battle between teams and all NPCs.

I still think the best solution would be to make adjustments such that games almost always end by lord kill and leave both the game duration and the timer game-ending rules alone. The optimal way to do this is to additionally make player kills matter more. Maybe when you kill a player, your whole team gains 1 supply without having to pick anything up, enabling you to push harder in the wake of their death. There are a lot of good options here.

you missed the fact that i suggest a 20% damage buff for the team with more points so no, your effort won’t go to waste.

i’m just not sure if that would work in gw2, the mechanics are different and you have no real healers so a full dps team would really have the advantage while a more tanky team is just doomed to defend but not really able to heal. similar to the heroes not attacking when they’re not at a gate the lord would be pretty much a free kill before he reached the mid point.

Hexin.5603:

My point about Lord’s being vulnerable is … let me try to paint a picture here.

You are on a team who is defending in the Lord’s room the battle is heavy you have been on the defense for a while and it looks like a definite loss. You manage to hold in the lord’s room and down the enemy players. The respawn and start heading back. Great time for your team to go on the offensive. You send a couple guys down the offensive path. Suddenly the VoD timer hits. You see the enemies coming back in range again, but they hold back watching at a distance. Gate’s all open. Your npc’s remaining and Lord start there trek to mid, your remaining players escort them keeping the enemy at range. Meanwhile your offense dual take on the enemy npc’s en route at the gates…. the enemy still hasn’t reacted as they are focusing messing around with you. If they manage to get the enemy lord down before reinforcments come your team wins based on outplaying the enemies who failed to escort there npc’s. You can pull off a comeback with some quick thinking.

Granted… most battles and teams will escort there npc’s to mid point. But having it available allows for some more strategy to help teams attempt a miraculous comeback from a dire situation.

Would it lead to people stacking on a gate? Maybe … but a team should be able to fend off the attackers having there more powerful npc’s with them. Of course if you have little to no NPC’s it’s a moot point and the writing was already on the wall to begin with.

Hope that makes sense.

it’s also stupid to defend your lord just for VoD to kick in, him going out and dying. VoD in gw1 was the clash of the teams at the very end and not a ranged dps race. you also want the fight to start with the advantages that you managed to get during the match, having more npcs, having more points to get a damage multiplier for your team, setting up that strategy before the showdown starts, wiping the enemy team before the showdown starts.

what you suggest is a dps race when the lord comes out rather than a big teamfight. it is definitely also a possibility but in my opinion one with less “show” and impact compared to a full out fight between knights and pirates. As the pirate says, he want’s to settle this with the local lord.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Jekkt.6045:

it’s always possible to give 50s per win if stronghold gets its own queue and takes longer than conquest. tbh this is not really a problem as long as it’s fun and the rewards are balanced.

Sure! Rewards are an easy issue to handle, I agree, but a lot of people will still avoid Stronghold if the games take 20 minutes when they can get 2-3 games of Conquest in for the same time period.

Your note about fun is important; a lot of people will find something that drones on for 20 minutes boring. What happens when all gates are down and a team is 100 points ahead of the other team due to kills and heroes and such? There is little to encourage them to actually attack the lord and risk losing their own, so they bunker down for the timer and win by timeout. Maybe it’s because my unranked MMR is fairly high, but 11 of my 16 games ended on timeout. The only time it went to a lord kill was when the enemy team (or my team) was completely mechanically inferior to their opponents. We don’t want teams in the situation where they’ll win by timer to just sit around for an extra 5 minutes to win because it’s safe.

you missed the point of VoD, there will be no more timer end but every match will end with a lord kill. but it will need setup time for the npcs to walk to the middle of the map for the final showdown.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Laraley.7695:

I’m sorry but why should other players adjust to you not having time? Should we just all work around your schedule and then decide how to proceed with a new game mode built on your life? I don’t think so.

If the game mode takes too long, you won’t have sufficient people playing it because there are other formats that are more rewarding for the time, or they simply want to get the most bang for their time playing so they go with the mode that has more games/hour, etc. There are a lot of reasons why making matches take longer is not the answer. Regardless, since it’s ANet’s goal to get people to play Stronghold, simply increasing the duration of each game is not something they should pursue recklessly.

it’s always possible to give 50s per win if stronghold gets its own queue and takes longer than conquest. tbh this is not really a problem as long as it’s fun and the rewards are balanced.

another thing that came to my mind was, when inside the lord room defending the gate while the enemy is trying to get the gate down, it felt very useless inside, you can aoe through the gate but it would be nice to have some stairs leading up to the wall (like in wvw towers) so that you can stand on the ledge and fire down.

will also add this to my main post.

while a teleport speeds stuff up i’m actually against it. it makes things more interesting and intense, the calm before the storm.

you can already wait at the middle with your team, risking to get into a fight with the enemy team resulting in deaths even before the lords are actually there or you stay out and wait for the right moment to dive in. you would lose these moments if you just teleported everybody.

the match won’t restart at VoD, that’s not how it was meant, dead npcs are dead.

i just think it’s if stupid players are able to camp infront of the lord gate at 15 or 20 mins waiting for him to come out because they couldn’t get it. it has more of an impact if they meet in the middle of the map and then bam, showdown!

please keep the discussions on topic, we want to stay constructive even if opinions differ.

you’re mistaken on that one, the pvp team is maybe 5 devs big and i don’t know how many 3d artists can assist them but if they don’t increase the size of the pvp dev team we will maybe get 1 new map per year; and balance patches every 4-6 months.

some people like longer games, and the gates already break too fast for my taste. look at other popular esport games where matches take 30mins-1h and nobody complains about it. i guess this is just a matter of taste because for me 20mins seem ideal while for you it doesn’t.

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Guild_hall

scroll down to “Available guild hall types”. those were the GvG maps and while not all of them were top notch the maps back then were still good in mechanics and good in numbers.

i would not mind at all if they recycled them close to 1:1 for stronghold.

usually the games end by a lord kill most of the time anyway, i only had 2 matches in the beta that didn’t and they were against tank teams.

i don’t mind when VoD happens, in GvG it started at 18mins if im not mistaken and until all the npcs walked out. it takes time for the npcs to walk to their showdown point anyway and if a VoD mechanic will be added the matches won’t have a set ending time anymore but will take as long as one lord is dead (which shouldnt take longer than 2 mins anyway..) so overall it will still come to the 20mins mark. imo games should not end by points at all in any scenario because it’s boring.

i personally just felt like 15mins were not enough. it takes longer than conquest and many matches when they end are around 13mins, that’s still longer than the average conquest match and indicates that 15mins are too short.

GvG was not very casual friendly but still loved a lot by the players.
stronghold on the other hand is very casual.

i’m not sure if that’s a good thing or not, other games like LoL and DotA are simple games but i don’t know if they are more casual than stronghold (also because i don’t play those games).

but i agree on what you say, team wipes are not as punishing as they were in GvG and tbh that is a bad thing. i wonder what would happen if you made dead players resable by hand/banners but auto respawn is only at even minute numbers (2:00, 4:00, 6:00 etc). would add some difficulty.

npcs should definitely regain their health when out of combat.

then add a healer npc, poison would actually be useful then. and i dont see why a hp increase would favour direct damage over condi, it’s still around the same and with the expansion feature pack condi limit will be removed anyway.

i just think as it is now they should disable channeling with stability pulsing elites.

it’s a start and i hope it will improve until its release. to help with it i will give my personal feedback here:

pvp
overall i felt like PvP combat is less important than in conquest, often ignoring the players at the supply camp, picking up, spawning npcs and only really fighting at heroes or lords.
even though there is more to do it feels more casual than conquest.

map
the map looks cool and i like it even if it’s small. i think it’s a good map for what you try to achieve with this game mode.
the lord room and the supply camp could be bigger.
when inside the lord room while the door is getting attacked by players and their npcs it feels hard to defend or to even know what’s going on outside, you can defend by aoe through the gate but especially when you’re outmanned you dont want to go outside. it would be nice to have stairs that lead up to the walls so you can stand there and fire down, similar to WvW towers.

team size
sometimes i felt like 5 players weren’t enough. 6v6 could be better, 8v8 too much. if arenanet could increase the size of the lord room and the supply camp it could be better with 6v6 (even for 5v5 the lord room is already too small).

guards
the guard npcs are too weak and die too fast. as ele i can rush there on gamestart and take them down with frostbow in a matter of seconds, this makes archers useless.
the guards need to be almost immune to player attacks so that it’s worth getting archers to kill them. put the focus on protecting archers you spawn instead of just dpsing the guards down, especially because it’s also easy points.

lord
same goes for the lord, i feel like the lord fights are easy and even if the enemy has banners and stuff, eventually the lord will die. give the lord guards more hp and maybe add some lord guards that are dedicated lord healers. the lord and all guard npcs in the match should get their health back when out of combat, they don’t have enough hp to justify this, especially because gw2 doesn’t have dedicated healer mechanics.
overall the lord feels weak, he is not really a threat, nor a real boss. make him more dangerous for he is THE lord after all.

hero
heroes were kinda weak and usually die before they get to a gate (even when protecting) and are only strong when the enemy is defending their lord and you get some surprise heroes in.

npcs in general
many npcs have just an auto attack, why? give them a set of skills, this will make everything more interesting.

channeling
channeling was a bit annoying. i can understand it at the supply camp but you should change it at hero channels to the way stillness works. as it currently is you can send your tankiest stability class with a transform elite and you will get it most of the time. stillness has more of “an eye for an eye” mentality, you kill for that buff, but this here is just annoying and lame, especially because the heroes are not even that strong.

timer
the game timer is boring and kills the fun most of the time. increase it to 20mins and put in a victory or death mechanic. make the lords and guards come out to fight each other and give the team with more points a 20% damage increase. make them invulnerable until they reach each other.

hype
i kinda missed those “omg this was just really sick!” moments and while killing the lord feels rewarding that’s the only moment in the game.
even wiping a team doesn’t really feel rewarding because it’s so easy for them to just respawn, the penalty is way smaller than in conquest. you should increase the respawn time by 2s for every minute that passes to add some spice! or make people hardresable (by pressing f like in wvw) and make auto respawn every 2 mins (2:00, 4:00, 6:00 etc) to make it interesting and punishing.

future
if you manage to add more spice to stronghold i can see this game mode becoming more popular than conquest. for the future and after perfecting this map i hope you will add another 2-3 as soon as possible because after testing this for a long time it really got boring because it was the same map over and over again. also, it’s not a bad thing to recycle things from gw1 GvG maps, your company made those maps and people liked them, nobody will get angry if you take some inspiration from there^^

i appreciate your efforts and it looks promising so far but we’re not there yet! keep up the good work and take as much feedback as you can

win by points after 15mins.

timer needs to be at 30mins + VoD mechanics.

i dont think boon stacking is as strong as it used to be some months ago, the only class that still effectively stacks might is warrior. for other classes boons are their defensive mechanic.

we have necros and mesmers that can strip boons and we will get the revenant who will be able to do so too.

i did provide suggestions on how to improve scepter skills (page 1) a bit without completely changing them. to make fresh air truly viable we need new skills and traits – specialisation pls – and who knows if there won’t be coming a better berserk build than fresh air.

ugh didn’t know that endurance traits and vigour don’t work, that’s pretty bad then.

while d/d doesn’t need the trait to be 100% uptime fresh air does. i wouldn’t mind some small nerfs (question is what nerfs) to d/d if fresh air recieves buffs for it.

gotta wait for expansion and see (and hope) i guess.

make renewing stamina the minor master trait with 10s icd so that i can tage vigorous scepter as adept.

nerf to d/d, buff to scepter fresh air, would totally aceept this.

arcana has 3 good traits: renewing stamina, elemental attunement and evasive arcana. all other arcana traits suck and are bad. furthermore does this tree reduce attunement cooldowns which makes this a must have.

to make other trees more viable they would practically have to overshadow those must haves, not only because they are good but also because of the attunement cd.

water tree is also a must have because of the low base health of elementalists.
there is more to it than just “op traits”.

you still dont get that every ele berserk build, from BA to FA or LR needs the vigour hm? unlike engi which has 5k more hp, ele relys on such stuff, believe it or not.

it seems like you don’t understand what balance is at all. yes ele can build to be “tanky”, exactly because of the stuff you want to nerf, even after ele’s offense has already been nerfed twice.

and yes, mathematically increasing a 5 seconds boon with 5 seconds icd to a 5 seconds boon with 10 seconds icd is 100% uptime to 50% uptime, especially because not everybody traits 6 points into that line but 2-4 for other builds. those are the builds you try to nerf.
D/D doesnt care at all because they will still have enough vigour with soothing disruption.

because, as was stated multiple times before, ele is a light armor class with the lowest hp-pool.

increase the hp-pool and you can reduce my vigour uptime to 50%. simple as that.

Arken.3725:

I usually ignore Supreme but i’ll do it justice by explaining my listed changes with facts.

Drake’s breath still gives Elementalist’s the highest AoE uptime of burning without any sort of investment what-so-ever. This cannot be disputed.

I may have went overboard with the protection reduction/removal so i’d be more than willing to revert said changes. At the very least, Elemental shielding should be looked at.

Engineer Gearshield is too strong, i’m trying to bring it inline with other blocks. 3 seconds for a 20 sec cd is too good. Instant-casts(overcharged shot) need an animation/cast time since there’s no surefire way to avoid it outside of lucky mitigation.

Incendiary powder has absolutely no way to mitigate. Giving your opponent a way to avoid dmg makes sense here. Finally, being rewarded for being CCed(protection) makes little-to-no sense. If I successfully CC you, your punishment shouldn’t a boon.

Warriors are a given as well. The concept behind cleansing ire was to successfully hit your target and be rewarded with condi-cleanse. Longbow completely forgoes that.

Edit: Don’t bother with the posts above. Those playing the top 3 professions and not acknowledge ANY issue’s what-so-ever are also delusional.

drake’s breath is a big part of ele’s damage. the only 3 damaging skills an ele has is burning speed which is highly telegraphed, fire grab which requires burning to hit hard and drake’s breath. every smart player will keep a condi cleanse or a block for that skill.

ele has the lowest health pool with the lowest armor. guess why we have a high protection and vigour uptime. give me a higher health pool / armor and i’m gladly willing to give up some of my protection and vigour duration.

gearshield is strong but also an engi’s death sentence when you know how to use unblockable skills, especially when the engi’s low health. tha maximum justified cd increase would be 5s.
overcharged shot is a tricky one, it’s a mind play skill and every not so smart engi will run up to you screaming “hey dude ima knock you now”.
it only gets dangerous against engis that know when to use it. another thing that makes it strong is the short cd immob. the reason this skill doesn’t have a casting time (updraft doesnt have one either btw but on a longer cd) is because it knocks yourself over aswell.

i agree on IP though, an indication that this trait is up now, like sigil icons, and making it dodgeable would be a fair change.

the concept for combustive shot is landing your fire field. as long as you land it it counts for cleansing ire. block or interrupt it and you can keep the warrior from cleansing, simple as that.

i’m really glad nobody here works for arenanet.

as d/d or d/f you generally use elemental shielding which gives you additional protection uptime. on a fresh air build on the other hand you use EA to counter bursts and mitigate damage. by reducing the prot duration by 50% you would hit berserk specs way harder than celestial.

still, why does mesmer need a nerf? it is considered a lesser used dps class, why push it out even more?

without doom a celestial duel would never end at all. even now it takes a long time to finish such a fight and by cutting the doom duration you would even prolongue it more. i don’t see the reason behind this.
why would berserk specs use this anyway? they are not made to 1v1 celestial classes but to +1 or focus burst and in that case you have enough damage even without the -heal of doom. and air/fire are better for the short-lived duels that berserk classes have, no reason to take doom for them.

Roe.3679:

Exedore.6320:

snip

I thought these suggestions were brilliant. Good post.

elemental attunement changes suggested by him are horrible, would destroy most of the non d/d builds as they heavily rely on that protection.

i dont wanna comment other stuff as i main ele and can’t really speak for other classes except if i personally feel that something is really op.

edit:

reread them and i don’t like most of them. most of them are unnecessary or a wrong approach. why does mesmer need a nerf?
doom counters celestial, that’s why it’s used, why would you reduce the duration, even if it hits squishies too but that’s just a bonus.

i don’t feel like what we have atm is broken op, in fact it’s quite balanced. just certain classes are not on par yet and could need some love.

i think rather than trying to kill metalbuilds anet should focus on bringing other builds on par. some small tweaks here and there are fine but comments like “delete this and delete that” are not constructive at all, don’t forget, just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean that other people feel the same.

builds are fine as long as they don’t destroy the fun for other players while being effective and easy to play even on a high level (i’m looking at you, turrets).

while the current celestial builds are not as punishing as berserker builds they are still not easy to play on a high level. even if you manage to survive in a 1v1 as an elementalist you’re not fulfilling your role as a team supporter in a teamfight. same goes for warrior.

people tend to forget that pvp is not all about 1v1.

Trevor Boyer.6524:

Elementalist – Armor Of Earth turned down to 5 stacks

if you reduce the terrible cooldown aswell.