Guild Wars 2

congratulations arenanet dev team, you just deleted a completely balanced amulet.

with the removal of the minstrel amulet you just destroyed the whole build diversity of support specs. for the first time after the removal of traitline stats it was possible again to play a full support spec on ele without having to run a suicide build with 11k/13k hp or 1900 armor. tempest, an already lackluster elite specialisation, had an almost viable build with that amulet.
but hey at least i can go back to celestial now.

you want to be an esport? then learn how to balance first.

Electro.4173:

I don’t think this would be an overall improvement, honestly.

Sure, you’d have an easier time following allies running around to try and heal them perhaps. But it would come at the cost of putting yourself in more danger. Right now, I can, say, pop the tablet over to an ally in melee range why staying safe myself, healing them without getting in the line of fire personally. Or if an ally is standing in a harmful AoE, same thing, I can throw the tablet over there to help them freely. Or as maybe a more complicated example, lets say I’m fighting an enemy that uses projectiles and puts down AoE fields and I’m trying to use the tablet to block projectiles for an ally. There’s an AoE field between the ally and the enemy. Right now, no problem. Just throw the tablet into position, pop the reflect, boom. If I was the tablet, though, then I have to put myself into bad situations to attempt to help allies.

it also comes at the cost of you or your allies. if you’re getting focused you have to retreat the tablet, leaving your allies vulnerable. if you are the tablet you always have the heals with you.

nearlight.3064:

Jekkt.6045:

each shout heals allies if you play with aurashare. if you don’t then it doesn’t heal anybody but yourself iirc.

and while damage might be damage it doesn’t mean that you will drop somebody with it, especially now when half of the people you meet in queue are druid or dragonhunter.

Are we playing the same game? You don’t need powerful auras for shouts to apply auras to allies, 3 shouts do that as a baseline function of the skill and with elemental bastion it heals them.

I don’t know about you but I’ve had death breakdowns that show taking 10K damage from 12 hits of overload air from fighting cele tempests. It hits so hard because of the HC damage mod, and because it stacks a ton of vuln quickly, so it doesn’t need might stacks to be effective.

Try playing a build before you discount it. I was skeptical of this trait spread too at first.

that’s my bad for forgetting that shouts have base auras, comes from playing too much full support with water. even then, the heal is not that much from only shouts with the celestial amulet and the damage that air overload deals is less than just auto attacks on other classes. many specs that see a lot of play right now have ways to mitigate that sustained damage and while it might work against matchups without supports it won’t work anymore as soon as there is an enemy support.

if you have a support that is able to stand on node you can have your other players off-node so that they don’t eat the aoe damage. or they can simply interrupt you.

i’m not skeptical at all, i tried it today in a handful of matches and it wasn’t that overwhelming, sadly.

sunshine is totally right about what he’s saying. as i said before, don’t let the numbers fool you. as much as i want tempest to be good i won’t try to make it look better than what it is.

arenta.2953:

you are the tablet…..
i was gonna say make it follow you by itself….but this is actually very interesting.

i’m up for experimenting.

the problem if the tablet actually followed you is the same problem with minions. how do they cross vertical gaps? minions kind of run around until they can get to their target or back to you, they never jump and i imagine the tablet following you could have a similar problem so it would just be easier to make the player the “tablet”. imagine the tablet getting stuck somewhere xD.

each shout heals allies if you play with aurashare. if you don’t then it doesn’t heal anybody but yourself iirc.

and while damage might be damage it doesn’t mean that you will drop somebody with it, especially now when half of the people you meet in queue are druid or dragonhunter.

then what you think is wrong. revenant was already nerfed and is now close to unviable against opponents that actually think about what they do. 3/5 revenant legends are also useless and never get slotted at all while the other 2 have been nerfed yesterday.. but hey, it’s thanks to people like you that those nerfs get implemented.
no offense, just the truth.

nearlight.3064:

I run celestial tempest (fresh air) with full shouts with soldier runes and it works great.

And no Jekkt my damage is quite good, I’ll typically have over 400K physical damage at the end of most matches, which is way more than I ever got on Mesmer builds or necromancer builds to put things in perspective.

Minstrels is viable, but it gives your team a rotational disadvantage because you’ll be useless at pushing points since you do no damage.

you have 400k damage because it’s aoe from the air overload. don’t let the numbers fool you. if you break it down to actual damage it’s not that much anymore. i usually also have 100-150k damage on minstrel.

while your build is totally selfish (assuming you’re playing earth air tempest) apart from water overload and wash the pain away, something like a celestial druid is 2x more useful and will deal a similar amount of damage. there is also nothing tanky you can kill on celestial fresh air tempest.

adding visuals to the player for when he “represents” the tablet would not be an impossible job or a “ghostly” version of the tablet could move around with you similar to how herald has that feet icon (although people even dislike that xD) but that might be too much in bigger fights^^.

during all those days i haven’t seen a single ventari revenant in pvp.. the only thing i see in every match is a druid. sometimes a ah guard and rarely a support tempest. i have tested ventari cleric/minstrel a couple of times myself but it’s just ugh… x is low and jumps behind a pillar, tablet can’t keep up. y runs away from you, tablet out of range. z teleports up somewhere, tablet doesn’t know how to teleport. that’s why i find it important that you can act as the tablet, with skill 6 as a teleport so that you can actually follow player z :^)

while my topic title does indeed sound a bit funny it might actually be the key to making ventari a viable healer.

the core problem of ventari right now is: the tablet and micromanaging it. you have to move your tabelet to allies, they run away, you keep chasing them with your tablet but they’re just too shy – to stay next to your tablet and all you do is move your tablet from a to b and back while you won’t even get to use your weaponskills most of the time…

now here it comes: what if YOU become the tablet when you channel ventari? not in a literal way, you won’t transform into a tablet, but you will act as the tablet’s host.

skill 6 would teleport you (possibly like the druid’s staff skill) around, on a higher cooldown but with a higher heal amount and would act as a stunbreak (which is needed). healing, shielding and cleansing from skills and traits will take place around you, because you are the tablet’s host.

this way it would be so much better and more comfortable to heal your allies and the utility skills would act much more like actual utility skills rather than tablet commands. you would actually have enough time to use your weaponskills because you can move to your allies, as the tablet, by moving with wasd.

it’s possible that this might be against the design idea of roy and the balance team, against the idea of the actual tablet as an object, but sometimes you have to change things for the sake of making them better.

what do the revenant players think? would you prefer if you became the tablet or do you like moving the actual object around?

scepter/focus with soldier runes lightning flash and 2 low cd shouts and rebound.. just because it also cleanses a condi..

right now there is nothing more useful for ele than minstrel tempest.
celestial tempest is bad because you literally can’t kill anything on it.
marauder tempest is even worse because you don’t have any sustain.

minstrel has good survivability, is basically unkillable in a 1v1 if you’re forced to take one, has very good aoe group heal and cleanse (i get like 400k ally healing in a match when i’m in teamfights the whole time).

scepter because water trident is better and the ranged air blinds are really good. you do lose shocking aura on dagger but it’s worth it imo.

the downside of it is that if you have stupid team mates the matches usually end with you losing.

on minstrel you facetank them and dont give a kitty at all.

on other builds: no other builds are viable.

it seems that upkeep costs carry over when you swap legends for a short duration and somehow disable other upkeeps if their total energy cost is higher than -10

lighter.2708:

Jekkt.6045:

lighter.2708:

Jekkt.6045:

what people kind of don’t see is the following, big problem:

in low tier matches against random players it is common to totally ignore a herald, letting him freecast or if he gets focused people don’t care at all about infuse light. so your survivability is fine.

but in a match where people actually think before they act it will be a lot harder getting your heals off and you will see yourself way more using infuse light as a pseudo invul while you spam your heal skills to actually get a bit more than those 2k heals.. or you walk through dragonhunter draps to heal a bit because people don’t attack you. while 1s seems minor it’s totally not, it’s a huge problem because it doesn’t give you enough room to breathe nor to heal up.

There’s a thing called a cast time, most burst skills has it, look for it and use your heal when they do that kitten.
the reason why glint heal is viable and not warrior heal, because glint heal is insta cast so you can time it with enemy burst…it’s not because oh it got 1/4 sec duration more

guess what, smart players don’t burst you when you’re low and in glint.. they will poke you until you activate the heal and then wait. what you are going to do in that situation is, you will use shield 4 and staff 4 to actually get 3k more heaing ontop of the meager 2k. just because you met people that tried to burst you when they clearly shouldn’t have doesn’t mean that i did too.

3 seconds is just not enough time to heal and prepare your next steps.

Guess what, in a 5v5

time to end this conversation.

gannondorf.7628:

You already forgot to write about Jalis and Mallyx, two legends who need changes and overall buffs. Balancing legends would be a priority too.

oh yeah i remember jalis, that was that thing i had until i unlocked glint.
but what is mallyx :^) ?

lighter.2708:

Jekkt.6045:

what people kind of don’t see is the following, big problem:

in low tier matches against random players it is common to totally ignore a herald, letting him freecast or if he gets focused people don’t care at all about infuse light. so your survivability is fine.

but in a match where people actually think before they act it will be a lot harder getting your heals off and you will see yourself way more using infuse light as a pseudo invul while you spam your heal skills to actually get a bit more than those 2k heals.. or you walk through dragonhunter draps to heal a bit because people don’t attack you. while 1s seems minor it’s totally not, it’s a huge problem because it doesn’t give you enough room to breathe nor to heal up.

There’s a thing called a cast time, most burst skills has it, look for it and use your heal when they do that kitten.
the reason why glint heal is viable and not warrior heal, because glint heal is insta cast so you can time it with enemy burst…it’s not because oh it got 1/4 sec duration more

guess what, smart players don’t burst you when you’re low and in glint.. they will poke you until you activate the heal and then wait. what you are going to do in that situation is, you will use shield 4 and staff 4 to actually get 3k more heaing ontop of the meager 2k. just because you met people that tried to burst you when they clearly shouldn’t have doesn’t mean that i did too.

3 seconds is just not enough time to heal and prepare your next steps.

what people kind of don’t see is the following, big problem:

in low tier matches against random players it is common to totally ignore a herald, letting him freecast or if he gets focused people don’t care at all about infuse light. so your survivability is fine.

but in a match where people actually think before they act it will be a lot harder getting your heals off and you will see yourself way more using infuse light as a pseudo invul while you spam your heal skills to actually get a bit more than those 2k heals.. or you walk through dragonhunter draps to heal a bit because people don’t attack you. while 1s seems minor it’s totally not, it’s a huge problem because it doesn’t give you enough room to breathe nor to heal up.

it’s not only the heal but all the things, like shield cooldown, and all those things add up and cripple the survivability by a lot.

when i play support tempest people don’t realise that i’m full support, they run away from me when i try to heal them and whatever. they leave me in 1v1s that i obviously can’t win lol and 90% of the time the enemy just stops attacking me because there is no reason to anyway because they can’t kill me.. that’s just how much people care about tempest.

oh and when i use rebound people don’t even notice that i just used my elite :’)

with the recent nerfs to the heal, shield skills and phase traversal the viability of revenant/herald dropped quite a lot; more than i expected.

reaching from s tier to d tier revenant is now, at most, b tier.

infuse light is now only viable when you use it right before you get bursted, something that no competent player will not try to bait. the 3 seconds are basically a joke and will not give you enough room to breathen, even as a pseudo invul.

phase traversal is now a lot worse to catch targets, especially ones that have vertical movement.

crystal hybernation on kitten longer cooldown, still rooting and making you highly vulnerable to unblockable skills doesn’t make it any better. all these things don’t help the already squishy revenant at all.

what i suggest:

- up the heal on evoy of exuberance to around 3-3.5k
- reduce the cooldown of infuse light to 25
- increase the range of phase traversal to 1500
- decrease the casting time of unrelenting assault to 1/2 from 3/4

the other legends are very lackluster, especially mallyx and ventari. they are in dire need of a stunbreak and additional effects for their skills.

i am overall very disappointed with the lack of creativity on how arenanet nerfed certain skills this patch, not only on the revenant. i thought with all those months of feedback you knew how to do better.

because shortbow 5 has a cooldown right… facepalm.. very disappointed with this change.

idk against which kind of random build you played.. but that’s not the dh build people are complaining about.

on topic, there is basically 0 reason why deflecting shot should be unblockable as no projectiles in this game act as a block.

if i have active facets and i swap my legend they still count as active and i have to wait for a short duration until i can use my impossible odds.
while this seems like a minor problem it is actually very annoying in a fight.

i would be very happy about a fix.

can confirm that it’s unblockable. and pretty annoying.

rebound needs go give you an invul frame after it saved you from death. and higher heal.

it’s less about the dps but how the traps + the traits work…

the daze needs to go, especially on unblockable traps. unblockable on longbow 3 needs to go aswell.

exalted is in the golden city after the event and both itzel and nuhoch are at jaka itzel next to that old frog lady’s house.

bump because helm mistward insignia.. the crystal ore merchant in dragon’s stand doesn’t sell them.

was doing it as a group of two..

one time the ground for the rift was missing
one time the updrafts for the aoe weren’t working
at the end you can’t kill the boss if the person who opened the instance is in the respawn room..

had to start over countless times. oh and the walls on the spiral from the 15th story had no colliders so we were able to walk through them lol.

warhorn is horrible. no need to slot it. focus/dagger > warhorn.

staff is bad if what you face is not AI.

pick the reduced earth cooldown, no need for soldier runes, also diamond skin is a viable choice instead of stone heart.

terrible name for all the feedback we gave about possible names in the revenant forum. disappointed.

tbh i would still pick a support guard over a support tempest. guard just offers so much more than tempest and the aoe cleanse is also better on guard because you get 2x condi removal with soldier runes where you only get 1 on tempest.

i would even argue that heal druid is better than tempest in terms of support.

style.6173:

Nocta.5274:

Burn Guard is REALLY good in low MMR games.
Like, REEEALLY good. There’s a reason why when you ask casuals PvPer, they complain a lot more about burning than in higher ranked games.
Lots of people playing dumb stuff that dies instantly to burn guard.

So it’s good up through the oRNG levels in EU. I’m curious what you consider high MMR.

it’s good against lord heltseths running pu berserk

and we clearly saw how good burn guard was vs abjured.
burn guard is something that you can counterpick with, on the other hand if you build too much on burn guards you can get counterpicked easily too.

at least it used to be a gm trait but switched places with cleansing ire in the last balance patch. not that it really matters as this line was always a must pick and nothing competes with defy pain in the master tier anyway.

i wouldn’t say warriors don’t sacrifice anything. if it’s not for their gm trait then they have to sacrifice a utility slow while mesmer doesn’t; for the price of dps.

another comparable skill to bf is pw, but nobody uses sword pistol on thief anymore, even if the skill itself is potent. this just kinda shows that even if certain skills are strong they won’t make a certain weapon/skill more desired.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

Another downside to obsidian flesh is it has a cast time while Endure Pain does not.

no it’s instant.

BlaqueFyre.5678:

ronpierce.2760:

BlaqueFyre.5678:

I wonder how OP deals with Warriors Endure Pain for 4 secs if he can’t handle a 2.5 sec rooted evade. Which was nerfed from being Invulnerable along time ago.

There’s certainly not a longer cooldown on Endure Pain, and BF isnt usually coupled with a root from leap either. Right?

I don’t really care about this topic at this point, people will adapt and power creep will grow because people love buffs and hate nerfs, but let’s be real here. 12 sec cd vs 60. And there’s always Distort. People happily forget things when they want to make incorrect comparisons.

Anyways, good luck everyone, this just struck me as silly.

Given the fact that you are rooted to on spot, do low dps with it, are pretty big draw backs, it shines when you have people that are smart enough to stand in front and eat all 8 swings of it.
Let’s see an invulnerability that allows you full mobility able to use attacks and so on while still not dating any direct/physical damage is more powerful so yes it should have a longer CD and it lasts almost twice as long.
So your argument is pretty invalid.

As for distortion it uses up resources that could be otherwise used to dps, since most builds rely on shattering clones for spike damage using Mind Wrack which means the Mesmer is giving up that damage to stop themselves from taking damage for 4 secs, still a decent tradeoff.

but endure is not a full invul. conditions can still be applied and the ones that are already on you continue to tick.

if you want to know what’s the best invul in the game.. obsidian flesh :^) but nobody cares

Saiyan.1704:

Silverkey.2078:

I personally think burn guards are fine. But it appears some can’t deal with it, so since they don’t want to learn to play, I was suggesting something that I don’t think won’t impact high tier players as much as low tier players. But I would personally keep things as they are.

Ele’s RoF is on a shorter cd (12s vs 28s) and it’s instant castable. That means that players would have a higher chance of crossing the field inadvertently. Considering PF has a 3/4 cast time, it gets interrupted all too easily.

That said, no single skill should have a burn burst of 12++ because some one crosses it multiple times. Yes, it’s a definite l2p but for newer players but the mechanic is still unhealthy for the inexperienced.

PF should stay the same with the exception that a single player can only receive 2 hits from PF. Whether that’s from the initial hit from PF or blocking the initial cast but crossing it twice – PF should give no more than 6 stacks of burns on a single player.

i’m not really a fan of dumbing down a skill because certain players don’t know what they are doing.

also don’t forget that purging flames is ranged while ring of fire isn’t.

the only thing i find reasonable and to prevent the uneven ground bug is a 1s icd on crossing the fire.

let’s not forget slow, which currently breaks almost all skills a revenant has :^)

not only that but burn guard is also way more easy to play than bunker guard.

no stunbreak on mallyx and the condi pressure is also not that great. the heal is also inferior.

Burtnik.5218:

Jekkt.6045:

staff and a generosity sigil can work wonders, it’s 4 condis cleansed on a 10s cooldown. you won’t really run that on a dps revenant though but i’m not running a full dps revenant build anyway.

tbh nobody cares about scullcrack warriors. they are rare and useless so why build for something that you won’t encounter 99,9% of the time?

Staff has 15cd, generosity 10. Its 3 condi total when most condi builds can put 8 condi on you so unless youre lucky with rng it may not save you at all.

You also missed the picture about catching rev out of UA. Its not just skullcrack, its me with jade winds. Its reaper with chill to the bone (unbreakable), its chrono with gravity well. Its anyone that can time their cc.

You also can pressure much better with stab on you as know you dont have to fear cc. See that pesky lb ranger? Dodge for stab and go for him. Fear not pint blank wont do a kitten. See that rifle engi? Fear not overshoot wont do any harm either.

While dev/invo/herald builds had decent damage they also been squishy to the point where people just stunlocked them to death.

And rev is not made to stomps? Please explain me why you wouldnt make use of quickness on demand to stomp ppl?

staff 15s 2 cleanse
generosity 10s 1 cleanse
invocation swap 10s 1 cleanse

if you predict crucial ccs and dodge them it won’t matter anyway. if they stun you after UA then you won’t care either because you have enough stunbreaks with invocation.

and i mentioned this before, i’m not running berserk or marauder, that’s why i am picking invocation and it works perfectly for my role and for what i am running.

why i wouldn’t use quickness to stomp? easy, because i use quickness to cleave and kill both the downed person and the person that is resing.

i would be fine with a 1-2 man queue and a full team queue. basically what many games with leagues already offer.

Burtnik.5218:

Ah..howered i still doubt that hambow can take ele 1v1, hammer is quite telegraphed.

I give up invocation as after all..devastation provides small amount of healing which is more helpfun than invocation. Not to mention life stealing bypasses such things as endure pain etc.

Jekkt.6045:

invocation > retribution, don’t need stability on dodge.

marauder revenant can easily be condibombed, even more if you don’t run staff.

Sadly no. Unless you want to feel like a necro – ping pong. You cant really secure stomps, you have to carefully use UA (i teached my skullcrack friend already to catch out rev right as they finish UA so enjoy 4sec stuns once more ppl learn it)

Staff wont save you to condi either, better to run hammer if you want to prevent condi in the first place.

And i dont understand ppl running marauder too – berserker all the way as rev can affort it.

staff and a generosity sigil can work wonders, it’s 4 condis cleansed on a 10s cooldown. you won’t really run that on a dps revenant though but i’m not running a full dps revenant build anyway.

tbh nobody cares about scullcrack warriors. they are rare and useless so why build for something that you won’t encounter 99,9% of the time?

as a revenant it’s also not really your job to secure stomps, but to cleave.

Fel.2319:

Jekkt.6045:

revenant can easily be condibombed

Shiro/Glint definitely is extremely easy to condi-bomb since the only condi removal is from Staff or.. The trait in Invocation. 1 condi removal on Legend Swap. I mean.. I guess it can sometimes save you.

I wish Glint had a 2-3 condi removal on its heal. <.<

I’m fine without stab – but I really really hate not having any condi clear outside of a semi-weak trait.

i fell like that’s fine, it makes things interesting and gives revenant a counter.

invocation > retribution, don’t need stability on dodge.

marauder revenant can easily be condibombed, even more if you don’t run staff.

the reason why those two legends are kind of a must have atm are because the other ones are a bit undertuned. give roy a bit of time and keep posting feedback and i’m sure he’ll get mallyx and jalis in shape. ventari is a different thing because the problem is the way it works with moving around the tablet.

something else that i really don’t understand is why people are so fixated on marauder. if you play herald right you get the damage output of any other marauder build while using celestial/soldier amulet.

you see, the funny thing about leagues is that we know close to nothing.

we know there are divisions with pips, we know there are rewards from advancing and some kind of tokens we can buy items from a shop. that’s it.

we don’t know when they come, what kind of rewards we get, how matchmaking will work, how parties will work, etc etc.

maybe today we get countdown to hot: pvp leagues

you’re wrong about that. tempest doesn’t fill the same role as d/d ele.

a build doesn’t have to be op to compete with existing builds, just a viable alternative which tempest can be if certain minor things get polished a bit more.

3s for an overload instead of 5
switching attunement mid overlod without canceling
instant shouts would be great
rebound buffed
minor traits merged and given new functionality
water overload maybe a water field
cooldowns of some shouts lowered
etc

burns are fine. burn builds can be annoying.. but they are not op and rather squishy. you can’t expect to beat a condi build if you run no condi cleanse…

i posted about this at the start of bwe3, people almost “flamed” me in this forum for it :’(

dh icon > herald icon (herald elite > dh elite)

i wouldn’t mind the dragon head if it wasn’t that ugly..

reaper chrono and berserker are lead by robert gee
herald by roy cronacher
dragonhunter daredevil and tempest by karl mclain
scrapper and druid by irenio

all devs attend the same meetings and discuss stuff but the above are the lead designers? of those elite specs.

my friends sometimes laugh when they see that i have an underwater legendary because in pvp there is 0 underwater combat. i don’t have kraitkin but kamohoali which i use on all classes that can use a spear lol. it’s one of the single best legendaries in the game with amazing effects and animations; even the aura is very nice and available on land with certain tricks :P

i hope one day spears become land weapons. or we at least get them as staff skins.

speaking from a pvp pov the difference between ele and tempest is that they carry in a different way. while d/d is more of a solo character and doesn’t rely that much on teammates but they rely on the ele, tempest is the exact opposite: tempest is a big threat in a teamfight that needs to be protected in order for it to freecast overloads. its main role is not the peel/support a d/d ele has with mediocre damage but a hybrid damage/support.

i’m not talking about water arcana tempest builds that go support, because i don’t see a reason to use that if you can simply take d/d ele and do better or staff ele.

tempest is certainly not the best elite spec and it needs some polishing. once the polishing is done i can see tempest have its own unique spot that totally has the potential to be viable with a 1.5 support comp.