Guild Wars 2

Sigmoid.7082:

Isn’t the other 15% becoming baseline?

Warrior got no Baselines.

Just run away if you see a chronomancer.

Sebrent.3625:

I still don’t accept the logic that it is “necessary” or “required”

You are on the wrong page if thats so.

Sebrent.3625:

Aye, good points … and exactly why I’m now pretty convinced that for the sake of balancing moving forward:

• Fast Hands should be made baseline … balancing +0% swap speed versus +100% from a single trait is a bit crazy
• Embrace the Pain should be pulled out of Cleansing Ire and made baseline … against, balancing +0% adrenaline gain versus +100% (or greater) adrenaline gain from a single trait is a bit crazy … even more when that trait also provides such great access to cleanses.

These seem like the cleanest solutions and the easiest to work with moving forward. With them baseline, you don’t have to ask for every new skill, sigil, trait, etc. … how does this work with the +0% versus the +100% (for either or both) … and try to balance around both.

Again, if you want Warriors even consider dropping DISC, then making FH baseline is not enough,and we would have achieved nothing.

there are 2 traits other than FH which are just too good, Warrior’s Sprint & Versatile Rage, WS is more of QoL than VR, if we get FH+WS baseline all the other lines including the new SPEC will have a chance against DISC, DISC will still be good but not that required.

Warrior’s Sprint then need to be tweaked by removing the “Mobile Strikes” merged with it.

that ONE chain broken, and i can live with the other chain.

IF THAT HAPPENED

then no need to change anything about Cleansing Ire, maybe just make it a Minor so it doesn’t kill it 2 neighboring traits.

More about Cleansing Ire and Defense line in general here : A Better Defense Line

^^^

nah i think i made a bigger wall than yours.

Since we made Thick skin a real trait > Reactive Armor, it should be a Major trait.

We also moved Cull the weak to be a Minor trait.

Also we assume Cleansing Ire will be a Minor trait, defiantly will take Spiked Armor spot.

So to arrange these traits having in mind how Heavy is Adept tier compared to Master and Grandmaster.

Then i suggest this distribution for our Defense traits :

Minors :

• Cull the weak.
• Adrenal Health.
• Cleansing Ire.

Adept :

• Reactive Armor.
• Dogged March.
• Spiked Armor.

Master :

• Sundering Mace.
• Armored Attack.
• Defy Pain.

Grandmaster :

• Rousing Resilience.
• Last Stand.
• Shield Master.

Check the attached image below :

Cleansing Ire Gain adrenaline when hit. Remove a condition for every bar of adrenaline spent when you hit with a burst skill.

On June 25, 2013 two years ago, Warrior got reborn thanks to this trait, Every warrior took refuge in this trait after being for so long in the bottom of the barrel.

But still this trait is hurting Warrior’s build diversity so much only surpassed by Fast Hands.

Also its a Major trait, No one will pick the 2 other traits no matter what.

• A Must have trait, Forcing the defense line upon warriors.
• Its a Major Master trait, rendering the two neighboring traits useless.

So what we can do to improve things ?

well we can do one of the followings :

• (1) Make Cleansing Ire Baseline.
• (2) Move Cleansing Ire to Discipline trait line as a minor.
• (3) Make Embrace the Pain Baseline. (Gain adrenaline when hit)
• (4) Make Cleansing Ire a Minor in Defense trait line.

(1) crazy right ?
(2) Diversity ultimate solution ? keeping all the black hole traits in 1 line.
(3) with the coming changes to Mending and Brawler’s recovery we might just need the (Gain adrenaline when hit) aspect of CI as baseline, but still CI will get picked.
(4) if everything up there failed, then please at least make Cleansing Ire a Minor trait with this we can actually choose a trait in Master tier.

I will assume Anet took the worst case scenario which is (4) make CI a Minor trait.

Cull the Weak Increases 5% damage to wakened foes. Striking a foe below the 25% health threshold inflicts weakness.

This trait is paired with Cleansing Ire, it will never get picked up, in fact as a major trait it will never get picked up anywhere.
its just not weak enough to be better deleted like “Desperate Power” and not good enough to be considered a Major trait.

So ,,make it a Minor trait, this will be the best solution i can think of for this trait and give the Weakness Application a 10-15s cooldown .

Thick Skin Gain extra armor while your health is above the threshold (90%).

This trait is just bad not even worth a minor, i think i’m not going far for saying its the worst trait for Warrior ever.

So should we just delete it or make it a real trait ? That is the question.

I have a suggestion for this trait that you might find cool.

Since ANET deleted Desperate Power and I agree with that decision, that trait is just useless and it never get picked, so i thought why not merge Thick Skin + Desperate Power and make it a real trait renamed to something cool like:

Reactive Armor Gain extra armor (+150 toughness) while your health is above the threshold 75%, You deal additional damage +20% while below the health threshold 25%.

Now this is a trait worthy of a Major status not a minor any more, think of the synergy with Defy Pain & Last Stand , this is your new far improved YOLO warrior build.

TLDR : check this post

Defense is one of our staple trait lines alongside Discipline currently.

With the new changes coming to core traits like picking a whole line and the inability to take an adept/master trait in the place of a Grandmaster, then Defense traits distribution is in a total mess and have some serious problems.

The fact that we will likely still get locked into Defense line just like the current state, if that is so then we at least need this line to be better tweaked.

So to begin and to simplify things, Defense got 3 Major problems :

• 1) Weak traits “Thick Skin” & “Cull the Weak”
• 2) Black Hole trait “Cleansing Ire”
• 3) Traits distribution

Lets explain these problems :

In adept we have 3 heavy weight great traits competing against each other, at first glance you would mistook it for a Grandmaster tier not adept.
“Shield Master”, “Dogged March” & “Armored Attack”, and since you cant pick 2 adept traits, these traits needs to be spread out a bit.

In Master we have Cleansing Ire a Black Hole trait, The whole trait line will be picked for just this trait and as a Major trait then no matter what 2 trait you pair it with Cleansing Ire will literally EAT it, Yes the changes coming to Mending and Brawler’s Recovery could shake things up a bit but still CI will be picked not just for condi cleansing but also for Adrenaline generating.

In Grandmaster we got some good traits but not worthy of a GM status, Adept & Master are far better than the GM.

We also have WEAK traits “Thick Skin” & “Cull the Weak”, that either not worthy or will never get picked.

for better visualizing this, check dulfy calculater
http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AggDqAKoBKg~

Lets start addressing these issues one by one:

@ TLDR.3625

You really don’t need to type all these walls.

the issue is very simple but i don’t know why you need to write GoT book because of that.

Simple, Warrior have 2 chains around his neck, Cleansing Ire and Fast Hands.

We are not asking much from Anet, just break One of these chains.

and no
“they’d need to look at the strength of on-swap sigils, Warrior on-swap traits, and Warrior weapon cooldowns.”
Because we already using FH and everything is fine.

For CI, if FH+WS made baseline then CI need to be left alone maybe just making it a minor trait so it doesnt kill its 2 neighboring traits, but this needs a separate thread.

TLDR.3625:

1. Yep. And Warrior has Viable builds without it.

Nope.

FatRaKoon.1782:

but I don’t believe making FH baseline is a good idea…

But giving Mesmers 6 Baseline traits plus Dogged march+ Warrior’s Sprint altogether combined as 1 minor trait is a Marvelous idea, right ?

Julie Yann.5379:

Juba.8406:

So every guy who says NO for baseline Fast Hands are :

• a Mesmer
• a Ranger
• a Necromancer
• a PvE Warrior

my fellow warrior mates, How DARE us ask for a baseline.

Most aren’t disagreeing with you because they are Mesmers, Rangers, Necros. They are disagreeing with you because what you are asking for is unrealistic. You said it yourself, FH and WS are the best traits we have in that line and you want to make them baseline?! Are you kittening serious?

100% serious.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

ANet would have already made the change during their extensive trait balancing, but they decided not to do it, and for good reason. .

So your solution is Shut the kitten up, right ?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Btw i read people saying here that ANet dont want warriors to have FH baseline. There is something that keeps me wondering.
1- How they know that?
2- If ANet really didn´t balanced warrior skills / weapons / combos to have FH why do they make it mandatory for every warrior who traits at least 3 points into discipline? You cannot choose to NOT to take it after the specialization if you go for the discipline tree.

If ANet wanted it to be baseline, do you not think they would have made the change with all the others? Warrior got zero baseline traits, because they don’t need any

LOL!

We warriors need to shut up not even allowed to give feedback, we should listen to this fellow Ranger and that Mesmer, apparently they know more about our profession than we do xD.

Is that what you are trying to say ?

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

To quote myself…

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

As a compromise, why not make weapon swapping 20% faster base and reduce FH to 30% faster? If you take FH, you get the same benefit, but also get a reasonable CD reduction without it and there doesn’t need to be another trait added.

20% is a decent gain, yet not overpowered as can be evidenced by Warrior runes, I suppose though if War runes had Power main stat, they would be a lot more attractive… regardless… 20% brings the swap to 8s and that is faster than the base burst skill CD with the trait changes, so it is kinda required imo. I just think a 50% reduction for no investment is too much.

Disagree.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Yet, you would still be able to take disc and pick up another trait that interacts with burst or swap for free. .

The only warrs that goes DISC after FH+WH made baseline are hammer warrs + burst spam wars.

You can help us suggest the new traits to replace FH+WH, whatever you suggest i will back you up on it, how about that ?

I will help you with one trait, “undo the merge between Mobile Strikes & Warrior’s Sprint and make Mobile Strikes a major trait”

With the coming changes i think we will drop lemongrass food and Strength runes will be a thing , fried dumpling (imagine +65% might duration + extra might stacks) and omnomberry ghost will be seen much more.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

What trait would you put in Disc to replace FH? Anything there would have to interact with swapping and or burst skills anyway so it would definitely make having FH baseline OP.

BTW you are missing the point entirely.

If FH+WS made baseline then i wont Have to take DISC, whatever trait they put there as replacement is not important, because simply i wont take DISC, i might take Arms,Tact,STR or the the new SPEC line, this what we needed more diversity not pigeonholing.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Juba.8406:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I have provided one.

no you did not.

Yes, I did, you just ignored it because it doesn’t have FH.

What trait would you put in Disc to replace FH? Anything there would have to interact with swapping and or burst skills anyway so it would definitely make having FH baseline OP.

Do me a favor and go play that build in sPvP.

Then I will hug you while you cry on my shoulder.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

I have provided one.

no you did not.

FatRaKoon.1782:

Even our friends Sebrent, Juba and Choppy who wrote the most detailed and interesting posts so far (to my poor and miserable mind) have achieved nothing and are starting to go around in circles, that means something.

Not going in a circle or anything.

My point is simple enough “Make (Fast Hands + Warrior Sprint) Baseline so DISC weight get toned down a bit in order to make diverse builds for Warrior and increasing the chances of picking up the new SPEC line”

Of course a Mesmer wouldn’t understand especially the one who take things personal.

I guess these people just wants to see the typical shoutbow warrior every time, they are not against buffing warrior they are against Warrior’s build Diversity.

So every guy who says NO for baseline Fast Hands are :

• a Mesmer
• a Ranger
• a Necromancer
• a PvE Warrior

my fellow warrior mates, How DARE us ask for a baseline.

Julie Yann.5379:

I think it is pretty obvious why.

Versatile Rage – cause we need adrenaline to use our core mechanic, even more so since Anet butchered it.

Warrior sprint – not only does it get us from point A to B 25% faster all our movement skill also get a 25% boost along with breaking immo (which is quite broken since Anet made it stack in duration.)

Inspired Battle Standard or Destruction of Empowered depending on if you want support or more DPS

Versatile Power – free might on weapon swap (goes nicely with fast hands) and also -15% burst CD

Burst Mastery- MOAR BURST! (Even hammers should be taking this over Merciless Hammer)

The entire trait line doesn’t just cater to a specific weapon set or a specific role (Tank/Support/DPS) but the entire class regardless of what build you are running.

But still Fast Hands + Warrior’s Sprint are truly the jewels of this line and truly effects every build.

I think i speak on behalf of most warriors, that if these 2 traits goes Baseline then the new SPEC will have a chance against DISC line.

Of course hammer warrs will have to pick this line but that is better than making all warriors forced to pick it.

Harper.4173:

Juba.8406:

Disagree.

this will beg more nerfs to 100b damage.

As i always said, 100b should be (Hard to setup/High reward skill), the current issue is that “the reward” is not high enough compared to the large effort done to set it up, but i think the upcoming changes will address this issue.

What changes are those?!

The new Forceful GS, Physical Skills improvement, the new Zerk power.

Disagree.

this will beg more nerfs to 100b damage.

As i always said, 100b should be (Hard to setup/High reward skill), the current issue is that “the reward” is not high enough compared to the large effort done to set it up, but i think the upcoming changes will address this issue.

Well i think we are too late for something like that.

This is a complete Warrior recreation that will never happen.

Julie Yann.5379:

Even if they made FH baseline, any self respecing warrior will still be picking the discipline specialization. Any warrior that doesn’t is seriously gimping their potential and shouldn’t be taken seriously.

That is why we need Warrior’s Sprint as Baseline too.

Khenzy.9348:

I think the question here is why Sebrent (there may be someone else though) is so incredibly adamant on Warriors not getting Fast Hands baseline. To the point of going in a post rampage (hehe), trying to squeeze every argument possible regardless of the weight those may have. It’s like you took it personal,

Maybe because i gave JonPeters a reasonable feedback about how OP “Times Marches On” in Mesmer’s Forum and he Sebrent took it personal ?

But its fine with me, free Bumps for my thread, we need this thread in 1st page anyway for ANET to see it, but hey I’m currently making a new thread, really hoping he keeps Bumping that too.

Sebrent.3625:

TLDR

for real dude put pics like this, not just typing random letters, now I’m truly convinced.

But GG dude, A pic from a match you only played to get the daily xD and that “You are defeated” GG dude xD War so OP, gl getting “Dungeoneer” title.

Yes the whole idea for going FG is to carry that might to another set.

With the might nerf, FG really got a hit since it already gives a low duration might, 5s gets dropped really quick unless going Strength/Hoelbrak, and made Slashing power even better.

But still in the “perfect scenario” i hit my opponent with Final Thrust with 22 stacks of might (+660 power VS +770 power pre nerf) , if he got any kind of AI it gets even better, and since I’m not using a hammer but sword, no need for MH also 5 in arms gives me that +10% damage back with almost perma bleed thanks to Sword AA + Precise Strikes .

Bran.7425:

While Sebrent has shown bias by looking at his post history that does not add anything to the argument. Post if all the poster that are completely for the idea are just as bias, only their bias is focused on warrior.

If we look at what could happen you realize that they could very well move fast hand to be a major trait and where would that leave warrior?

The general arguments that have been shown here all boil down to you choose not to go without traiting Discpline and that is fine as you have weighs your options and made a choice that is what builds are about. Base lining a trait as strong as fast hands would have to come with adjustments across both weapon skills and the remaining trait line, but I do not think the ones wanting this change have even given that much thought so long as they receive one of the strongest minor traits in the game a a freebee.

You too are no different, read past posts for the answer to your points.

lol cele thief, whats that ?

of course a roamer like thief will be very viable, Warrior with stability can almost guarantee the hero channeling on top of GS mobility.

Sebrent.3625:

@Juba:
And you know all warriors will take those why? Because you’ve already playtested all the new possibilities opening up with the new Specialization system including the new Warrior Elite Specialization? I imagine you are able to tell how the metas will shift too, eh?

You are just pulling stuff out your bum and providing nothing to the conversation.

LoL im the one providing nothing ?

Dude you don’t even play warrior, you know not even one bit of what you are talking about, making just lengthy rubbery statements that literally added 0 point to this thread, you are here to troll us, just a quick look at your posts shows how biased you are, yeah right 6 baseline traits for Mesmer is totally fine eh ?

To hell with the new possibilities, we already locked in DEF+DISC, we already need a change to our core traits.

When Specs comes without making (Fast Hands + Warrior Sprint) Baseline.

All Warriors will be spec into DEF + DISC before even considering anything else.

If current status remains the New SPEC will compete with only STR (TACT/ARMS abit).

If ANET wants warriors to pick the new SPEC over (DEF/DISC),, then they need to do something that overshadows Cleansing Ire/Fast Hands.

For CI i think its possible but i don’t think they can introduce a trait that can compete with FH.

Sebrent.3625:

• Warrior can still be quite viable/powerful even without Fast Hands … they are still quite competitive with other classes

Wrong!

Dude you clearly know nothing about warrior, i really suggest you pick it without FH and try it in sPvP and please pick something other than a dead brain shoutbow or better yet try without a longbow.

It really can shine there quite good.

One strategy we used with my mates is to order 5 door breakers, then i would rush enemy gates killing all guards clearing the way for door breakers while all my mates hitting supply depots, before anyone knows both gates are down and lord is ready.

Sebrent.3625:

@Juba:
I’m sorry, but you’re misinformed. Warrior is in a great place right now since they are a solid part of all three metas (PvE, sPvP, and WvW).

PvE ? you can have it, really using PvE as an argument dude ?
sPvP ? shoutbow ? No thank you, ANET should just delete longbow because only then warrior will be exposed as not viable at all in sPvP.
WvW ? not anymore with stability nerf, roaming is still good.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Warrior got nothing because it is already in a much better place

No its not.

ANET said " Warrior Rely on Speed" when describing Warrior

Since almost every profession will get passive +25% speed despite the stealth, ranged attacks and teleports, Warrior should get passive swiftness as Baseline to make ANET statement true.

silentnight warrior.2714:

So, in the end warriors require Fast Hands to be viable in any type of game mode.

True.

We will take it either way, Baseline or not, strong or weak, that was never the issue, its the issue of less diversity of Warrior builds when warrior is forced to trait Discipline line no matter what.

The fact that we got 0 baseline traits while every other profession at least gets one (6 baselines traits for Mesmer) then i think we have the right to demand Fast Hands to be baseline, there is no other trait that is more important to warrior and actually class defining to the point which is destroying Warrior’s Build diversity in its current state .

Choppy.4183:

- Also, keep in mind, Slashing Power isn’t +10% power but +10% damage, which is much better.

Put another point to Arms and you can get your +10% damage back.

but i agree with you on the awesomeness of Reckless Dodge

Jon Olson.8439:

It’s not your normal account’s wallet, but a copy of it, used specifically for the beta. The materials you are storing stay on the beta side of the account.

What about transmutation charges ? used a ton in the beta.

Ephemiel.5694:

GG, you found a low quality cutscene during a BETA. Take a cookie.

its 2.

so give 2 cookies.

North.1438:

Might just be your graphics settings, they were very high quality for me

1080p + Supersampling + Ultra/high on everything.

• The beginning Cutscene

• Rytlock Brimstone Cutscene when attacks

Are low quality, i think its not even 720p.

Vix.6730:

FFIV is a beast of an MMO.

i used to play FFXIV the 1st release, haven’t got to play the second one, while it was fun back at that time but really its no match for GW2, i remember when i tried GW2 after FFXIV its like someone pressed the lights ON for my dark room, the game just feels too old school in comparison.

I love the lore and the music of FFXIV but this is where it stops, GW2 just more advanced and mature and got rid of many of old school MMOs nuisances, while yes GW2 PvE is a bit lacking, but i think PvP and WvW fills the shortages greatly but i still hope to get a deep PvE experience with HoT.

I would have bought it in a heart beat.

lordkrall.7241:

Juba.8406:

Really!! the test times has no consideration for EU players, just like the 1st one.

maybe ill get to participate in the 1st one a bit late, but the others are too late for me.

That is because ArenaNet is a NA-based company and they will do their tests (especially the early ones) when they are in the office, seeing as they need to be there to gather information and stats and fix/change stuff based on it.

You can’t really expect them to get to work in the middle of the night just to cater to the EU player (and that comes from someone from Europe).

why not make it open for 24-hours ? you can get all your tests and data in the early few hours, let ppl enjoy it and EU then can play the next day and as i recall they have a QA EU team.

with these times i feel bad, all that insane farming for just 2 hours.

Really!! the test times has no consideration for EU players, just like the 1st one.

maybe ill get to participate in the 1st one a bit late, but the others are too late for me.

Its fine really.
Just anticpate your target movments. You can charge it while running before reaching target.
If in melee range hold right click and keep the camera on target while charging it.
And the akward animation is fine makes it really hard to notice.