Guild Wars 2

hawsawi.3157:

Have you been under Sup AC fire yet ? metro shower ? oh wait..you talking about empty tower !!

A dolly can PVD that.

2 words, Iron hide

a t s e.9614:

D/P is a almost a hard counter to warriors. The only way to win is to tank the thief till he has no stun breaks left and land your damage with berserk stance.

I know they are both my mains. I prefer going 1v1 against a warrior than anything else when playing thief.

But I don’t think the blind should be nerfed. Maybe the shot from black powder but not the field.

D/P thieves wreck pretty much every one of my warrior builds cause it’s near impossible to build up enough adrenaline to burst when constantly getting blind.

Syde.5961:

Why not run Greatsword and the might on crit with greatsword trait?

Cause we are sick of seeing GS warriors?

The math has already been done, it’s 12.5% (closer to 15% if you used scholar runes) on a zerk build at 100% crit chance.

Aeolus.3615:

Julie Yann.5379:

Bowflex.4502:

So nerf a class based on its performance in open field wvw, thereby making them struggle everywhere else?

Sure…. That makes sense.

I never said nerf. I just said it is broken and should be fixed.

Thiefs are made to solo players, if they didnt had mechanics to win, that woould be broken.
WvW is group wide gameplay, some classes excell on solo other in group play.

Like I have also said before. Dueling in Obsidian Sanctum is a solo fight and they are balanced (yet still quite strong) there since they can’t escape combat (the point is to actually win the fight not run from it.) and thieves have to manage their initiative an actually play the class the way it should be played.

Those same mechanics applied in the wide open fields of our borderlands is has created toxic gameplay atmosphere. Roll an instagib build, sneak in, spam all your best skills and stealth out. Lather, rinse repeat as needed. On the opposite end you get the high survivability stealth spamming bullkitten build that can troll groups of 5 or 6 for as long as they please and still manage to down a few in the process. That is where all the QQ comes from.

simonerd.8672:

Julie Yann.5379:

Bowflex.4502:

Lol these babies are so melodramatic. They complain, you give them solid factual answers, and they disregard anything you’ve said, from experienced players and keep crying

Stealth isn’t broken, it has many easy counters. But keep posting month after month. But instead of writing out detailed descriptions of why you think it’s broke , it might be easier and faster just to say “hey guys, I’m really bad” because that’s all we are really thinking.

Guessing a thief’s location, dropping AoE, and timing blocks/evades to the possible in coming invisible attack is are not true counters. Counters negate your skills, like blind to an earth shaker combo, berserker stance to a condition burst. Nothing we do can pop you out of stealth, prevent you from going into stealth, or give us any temporary indication of your location while in stealth. Stealth has no counter.

Man l2p, there are really alot counter to stealth like AOE or taking in mind that stealth duration is 3 sec for build without shadow arts 4 sec for build with 30 shadow arts, so if you see thief going in stealth you know that after 3 sec he must put inside him backstab if you take this in mind you can dodge easy the backstab, or go for AOE killing it when he try to backstab you.

None of those are actual counters and this is only true if you are playing against nub thief with the same predictable attack pattern.

BTW I did L2P, I have a level 80 thief which I rolled to learn their strengths and weaknesses so please don’t give me that argument. If you read some of my other posts you will see that I find the thief class to be pretty balanced in PvP and in OS duals even though fighting a thief is mostly just educated guesswork. It’s in open WvW that they are broken.

raahk.2786:

……….I’m a bit bitter about the constant nerfs to thief when we’re already the weakest profession to use in Spvp, ……….

Did you watch the tournament of legends last weekend? Thief is most definitely not the weakest profession to use in Spvp.

lol

Message Body length must at least be 15.

Iavra.8510:

Ok for me but considering that the other day we had ~20 people in OS arena, at least 15 of them warrior, should be a clear sign that something is wrong.

Just 7 days ago I was in OS arena testing out some new roaming specs. There were 15 to 20 people there. 1 warrior (me), 2 Eles, 1 Guardian, the rest was Thieves and Mesmers. There was also a Spamgineer that nobody wanted to fight against and just ignored. Yep, clearly something wrong.

Smithay.1635:

Exotics are competitive with ascended, they are a bit worse but nothing a bit of player skill can’t overcome. You definitely do not need ascended armour/weapons to have plenty of fun and kills in WvW.

Weapons do make a big differences though, not only do you get more stats but it is also a 5% damage modifier.

I believe that EOTM was a test for their megaserver and way to alleviate the queue problem in T1 servers. As for it being a karma train, better there than on our BLs.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Julie Yann.5379:

Bowflex.4502:

So nerf a class based on its performance in open field wvw, thereby making them struggle everywhere else?

Sure…. That makes sense.

I never said nerf. I just said it is broken and should be fixed.

So you expect to be taken seriously when you simply lay a blanket statement over a class, provide no backup information to reinforce your claim, and still think you’re right? Please.

I don’t expect anything at all. I’m just calling it like I see it. In PvP you are fighting on points and closed areas and stealth is easier to manage in those conditions. When dueling in OS, the thief can’t get out of combat and reset the fight. They have to manage their initiative and play strategically and makes for some good fights.

In the open field of WvW however a whole different breed of thief populates the landscape. Full of glassy insta-gib specs that sneak up on you and spam their best skills and stealth out if they don’t get the kill. Reset repeat as needed until they get the kill cause their initiative replenishes faster than our defensive ability CDs and heals. That’s what is broken.

Bowflex.4502:

So nerf a class based on its performance in open field wvw, thereby making them struggle everywhere else?

Sure…. That makes sense.

I never said nerf. I just said it is broken and should be fixed.

Bowflex.4502:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

And out of stealth, we are two shot.

So everyone should roll ranger, surround themselves with traps and wait for your arrival, or quickly build an arrowcart and max out AC mastery in order to counter. None of those seem real easy. The only option that can be considered a viable counter is knocking you out of shadow refuge.

Quit using the quishy argument and stop building super glassy instagibb builds. I have fought thieves and eles that were really tough yet still did enough damage to get the kill.

Like I said before, in PvP and OS Dueling thieves are not really OP. In open field WvW however, they can be terribly broken.

Delay.6908:

I guess you didnt read my full comment, let me highlight a peice of it. Better then current meta implies you have total control over party comp, and phalanx strength will not change this current meta. Since the ele builds are there for DPS and just so happen to also be able to stack crazy might, so phalanx strength means nothing to meta parties. im talking about META parties, aka organized groups, where you have control over your comp NOT random pug groups. I do not care about that, and never was discussing it in the first place.

I get that. My method of thinking is “simpler is better”. The more complicated it gets, the more things that can go wrong and takes more time to assemble. 1 guy (doesn’t even need great skills,) passively pumping out 25 stacks of might seems like a more reliable choice over 2 good eles and a party capable of blasting. The time saved putting the party together (since it is not as restrictive) outweighs the time lost due to 1 warriors lower DPS.

Bowflex.4502:

Lol these babies are so melodramatic. They complain, you give them solid factual answers, and they disregard anything you’ve said, from experienced players and keep crying

Stealth isn’t broken, it has many easy counters. But keep posting month after month. But instead of writing out detailed descriptions of why you think it’s broke , it might be easier and faster just to say “hey guys, I’m really bad” because that’s all we are really thinking.

Guessing a thief’s location, dropping AoE, and timing blocks/evades to the possible in coming invisible attack is are not true counters. Counters negate your skills, like blind to an earth shaker combo, berserker stance to a condition burst. Nothing we do can pop you out of stealth, prevent you from going into stealth, or give us any temporary indication of your location while in stealth. Stealth has no counter.

I still see plenty of spamgineers roaming in WvW. They’ are still a major pain, despite the nerfs to perplexity.

Delay.6908:

Julie Yann.5379:

Delay.6908:

Julie Yann.5379:

Kagamiku.9731:

I said 12 was the bare minimum. An experienced group can have 25 stacks 24/7. And the warrior would be doing much less damage. In some pub groups it might even be better overall dps then the standard build, it just crashes when you’re running with an experienced one.

What is involved with an organized group to get 25 stacks? With this trait all you need a is warrior with a gs to attack something. Everyone can be doing pure DPS 100% of the time. I’d have to spend some time going through the numbers but I truly believe that a group built and geared around Phalanx could out DPS the current meta since warrior does only mediocre damage as it is anyways.

Going 30 deep into tactics really meses up a warriors damage, you cant ignore that. If you run say 4/4/0/6/0 your already about 25% less modifiers then the current meta warrior build. So the damage difference is not :slightly less. And in organizde groups just grab 2 eles, 1 staff 1 S/D and boom, perma 25 might no problem and both those ele builds pump out alot more DPS then a warrior. So no, phalanx strength wouldent be better in meta groups since ele pump out the same ammount of might thanks to the synergy of LH and Staff and the front loaded S/D might, while not sacrificing a lot of DPS unlike the warrior.

I’m still curious to see the actual numbers. Until I do I remain with the idea that it might be possible to create a party (which doesn’t require 2 specific Eles builds) that is equal to or better than the current meta using this trait.

Those specific ele builds are higher DPS then the warrior build, so even IF the warrior carrying might was optimal you would still run those eles over anything else. And the math behind the warrior isnt to hard to do. Your prolly running 4/4/0/6/0 so your missing the 10% dmg mod from bleeding foes in arms, the 15% mod from full adrenaline in strength, the 3% mod from empty endurance in strength and then the 10% attack speed (8.2% dmg iirc) mod in arms. Thats alot of damage for something another class can do better.

I wasn’t taking about the math behind the warrior DPS, I know how to do that. I was talking about entire party DPS with different class compositions etc. Even if it isn’t better than the current meta, not every party has those 2 ele builds. Now that we can change our traits on the fly, it really opens up our options for those not so perfect parties.

Cavalier goes well with Zerk trinkets. As for runes, it all depends on your playstyle. I went full valk armor with zerk/cav trinkets and runes of melandru for my hammer build cause I like the -stun/condi stat and makes up for lack of toughness on my gear.

Cav armor with zerk trinkets and runes of strength/hoelbrak sound like a pretty good match.

I drop 1 from a WvW rank chest somewhere around rank 300. I also dropped 2 from tower lords. None of them have stats that I like.

Delay.6908:

Julie Yann.5379:

Kagamiku.9731:

I said 12 was the bare minimum. An experienced group can have 25 stacks 24/7. And the warrior would be doing much less damage. In some pub groups it might even be better overall dps then the standard build, it just crashes when you’re running with an experienced one.

What is involved with an organized group to get 25 stacks? With this trait all you need a is warrior with a gs to attack something. Everyone can be doing pure DPS 100% of the time. I’d have to spend some time going through the numbers but I truly believe that a group built and geared around Phalanx could out DPS the current meta since warrior does only mediocre damage as it is anyways.

Going 30 deep into tactics really meses up a warriors damage, you cant ignore that. If you run say 4/4/0/6/0 your already about 25% less modifiers then the current meta warrior build. So the damage difference is not :slightly less. And in organizde groups just grab 2 eles, 1 staff 1 S/D and boom, perma 25 might no problem and both those ele builds pump out alot more DPS then a warrior. So no, phalanx strength wouldent be better in meta groups since ele pump out the same ammount of might thanks to the synergy of LH and Staff and the front loaded S/D might, while not sacrificing a lot of DPS unlike the warrior.

I’m still curious to see the actual numbers. Until I do I remain with the idea that it might be possible to create a party (which doesn’t require 2 specific Eles builds) that is equal to or better than the current meta using this trait.

BurrTheKing.8571:

Julie Yann.5379:

@Burr

You can always going might stacking power bunker with 6 points in tactics for either healing banners or shouts. You can have enough cleansing and health o deal with conditions, enough armor to tank direct damage and still do more than enough damage to kill others with might stacks.

I have messed around with that a bit, it’s kinda fun but now I see more and more boon stealing/corruption being used so you can end up regreting it. Nothing more annoying than a S/D Thief with 25 stacks of might.

Well, we can’t have everything at once.

Kagamiku.9731:

I said 12 was the bare minimum. An experienced group can have 25 stacks 24/7. And the warrior would be doing much less damage. In some pub groups it might even be better overall dps then the standard build, it just crashes when you’re running with an experienced one.

What is involved with an organized group to get 25 stacks? With this trait all you need a is warrior with a gs to attack something. Everyone can be doing pure DPS 100% of the time. I’d have to spend some time going through the numbers but I truly believe that a group built and geared around Phalanx could out DPS the current meta since warrior does only mediocre damage as it is anyways.

Kagamiku.9731:

korelg.7862:

Kagamiku.9731:

It’s tough going 30 into tactics for a PvE build…It’s a good trait in a bad traitline.

not really, you get boon duration, strength in numbers(?), improved banners, party might stacking

that means 150*5 power+ 25*4 might stacks worth of power and almost perma banner… overall i’d say it is actually an extremely strong PvE trait lane

Any half competent group will have at least 12might stacks up at all times. With sigil of battle and forceful greatsword, I can probably maintain at least that much on my own. I guess it really depends on the group you’re in. The worse your team is, the more potent the trait will become. It’s almost negligible in an experienced group, to Godly in an inexperienced one.

Empower allies and empowered (perma banner not really needed) make up for some of the loss going into that tree, but the strength and arms trees have too much going for them to sacrifice 30 into tactics under most circumstances. You also need to sacrifice scholar runes for rune of strength, which do considerably less damage when the might duration is not taken into account.

lol, 12 stacks of might. With Phalanx everyone in your party can have a perma 25 stacks. Guardians don’t have to waste time to empower and Eles don’t have to waste fire fields. 1 warrior doing a little less damage than usual for and entire party to have a much high DPS is well worth the trade off. This trait is really being under estimated.

korelg.7862:

Well, I’ve been trying this for my PvE warr and it is just wonderfull how I can keep 25 stacks with zero effort, Phalanx + Runes of strength are just too good, the only downside is that it works that well only with GS, you can still do some good stuff with LB though Fire blast (6) + FGJ (6) + Elite Signet (5) in adition with the +30% boon duration from trait line and the +45% might duration from runes all those things give extremely long might stacks

well, whats the general concensus about Phalanx Strenght? to me, it is just so darn good

Eles are going to have to change their game for PvE. They’ve have just been re-leaved of their might stacking duties.

@Burr

You can always going might stacking power bunker with 6 points in tactics for either healing banners or shouts. You can have enough cleansing and health o deal with conditions, enough armor to tank direct damage and still do more than enough damage to kill others with might stacks.

Post patch I’ve change my roaming Hammer/SwSh build to this after dueling in OS for several days.
4 III,VII
0
6-V-IX-X
0
4 V-X (swap either of those for warrior sprint when WvW roaming)
Armor: All Valk (execpt gloves are cavalier) with Melandru Runes
Weapons: Zerk
sigils: Force and Intelligence on Hammer
Accuracy or Perception and Hydromancy on Sword and Shield
Trinkets:: Cavalier back and accessories
Zerk Rings and Amulet
Slot skills: Healing Sig, Endure pain, Zerker Stance, Sig of Fury, Sig of Rage

Consumables: Maintenance Oils and -36% condi food

Stats: Power 2452,
HP 23.5k, 3k
Armor 3k
Crit Chance 29% without fury
Crit Dmg 213%

Holds up well vs all classes.

Aidan Savage.2078:

Julie Yann.5379:

lol, it used to be QQ about people not completing events and now it’s QQ about people actually completing an event. Excuse me while I get a tissue.

I do like Pandaman’s idea, having a boss (and daily chest) for the defend event as well would be a win fort everyone.

The issue is that most temples (or all of them) do not work the same way as Gates of Arah, where if you succeed the defend event, it triggers the rest of the chain (by taking the place of the escort/reclamation event) and then you go on to fight the risen high wizard. Instead, if you succeed the temple defend event, that’s the end of it. It would be much simpler to change the defend events so that they take place X distance (or at a Pact location nearby) from where the priest/priestess actually spawns, so that the risen claim the actual temple whether or not you succeed. This would then mean you can push to the Temple itself and kill the priest(ess) again for the trait.

Why not just have a seperate boss (the priest(ess)‘s general or something ) invading the temple with his army for the priest(ess). It would give us something new to fight, event farmers will get their chest, and the temple stays open and nobody needs to listen to Malchor’s whining anymore (big win!!).

If all you want is the new traits, they can be bought.

daros.3407:

I don’t understand this……This is RPG and leveling is part of RPG. Days of games where max level was almost impossible to get are just gone but leveling will always be part of RPG games. And GW2 has one of the best leveling system. And there are even ways how to literaly skip it by scrolls if anyone really hate it. At least leveling is fast fluent and no painfull grind….seriously did you tried to level for example in SWTOR as F2P? That is painfull experience i can tell you…So i am very happy for leveling system we have in GW2.

You are right, levels have always been part of RPG games. It was a way to slow your progression through the storyline and make the game last longer. GW2 is not a true RPG, leveling is pointless aside from slowing your progress through the personal story and gating you out of certain maps. There are far better methods of progression that could be used other than leveling.

lol, it used to be QQ about people not completing events and now it’s QQ about people actually completing an event. Excuse me while I get a tissue.

I do like Pandaman’s idea, having a boss (and daily chest) for the defend event as well would be a win fort everyone.

In PvP, thieves are not OP, they are actually pretty balanced and when dueling in OS, thieves are also pretty balanced because of the nature of those fights, there is no resetting in those fights cause you are almost always in combat. Where thieves become terribly broken and unpleasant is in open WvW. There they have free reign to easily reset as many times as they want and troll groups for as long as they please without any real risk. Add in some sigil and guard stacks along with a bloodlust buff and you have an insta-gib fest. (GS/SwWh warriors are just as bad)

Spamgineers, and Mesmers also have some pretty broken builds.

After playing around with my roaming hammer build. I settled in with force and intelligence on hammer and battle and accuracy on sword shield. It’s a low precision build, crit chance sits around 25% without fury. I put extra points into power and crit damage, makes for some nice bursts when swapping into an ES chain while still being tanky as hell.

I run over 220% MF with buffs. I drop a exotic and several rares pretty much every day.

Sube Dai.8496:

The stats have nothing to do with it. Previously you could get your runes back by transmuting, and now you can’t. We need a solution for this.

We do, it’s called an Upgrade Extraction Tool or BL salvage kit if it is a salvageable item.

Straegen.2938:

Trinkets (easy to get) and Weapons (painful to get but effective) are all a player needs to still be highly competitive. Armor is just a bonus.

^^^^ This. The 10% plus in stats on the armor sounds a lot but in reality the difference over exotic armor is miniscule. 10% extra precision at level 80 is like 1% crit chance, or 100HP on a warrior 110 extra armor. not what I would call game breaking. The weapon gives 5% extra damage on top of extra stats which is a pretty big difference.

I’m glad to see that this is still on the first page cause it is a fabulous idea. Going to hit 250 responses soon, I wonder how high it will have to get before another red coat appears.

Xurse.8267:

Just try dual wielding sword sword and LB , go condition build.

LOL, he said he wanted to avoid using LB and 1hand swords.

@OP Power builds took quite a hit but I would try a Hammer/GS and see how that feels.

Bloodstealer.5978:

Julie Yann.5379:

I’ve played TESO and quite frankly, their WvW is not that great. The fights in GW2 are way more fun.

Yeah cos crunching #11111 in a haze of particle effects makes it soooo immersive.

Large scale fights in WvW have become nothing more than a skill lagfest which for me ruins that fun considerably.

I agree TESO WvW isn’t as good compared to the ANET vision and hype pre-launch/launch+1, but it’s been 2 years now and WvW here has gotten worse, stale and is nothing more than a blobfest waiting to happen.. if that’s your idea of fun then all power to you… ooh wait they did put that karma train map in EotM.. that worked!

Personally I think they have simply run out of creative juices, lack the resources to improve the gameplay functionality but above all they simply don’t care cos the bean counters say it doesn’t bring in the beans.

If all you do is spam 1 ftw then I hope our servers meet one day so I can collect a loot bag from you dead body. We run a 15 to 20 and the combat is fast paced, controls are responsive (most of the time) and none of us are using the #11111111111 rotation. We are blob killers. I found roaming in TESO to be a whole lot of running with nothing to kill when compared to GW2. Maybe once TESO starts getting more organized it will be more interesting but at the moment it doesn’t even come close the the gameplay we get in WvW.

Zero Day.2594:

Listen I get where you’re coming from, that it’s not fun to play the stealth based class that excels at dueling.
But… can you also make the game fun and enjoyable for the thief as well if they want to not do one role(roaming) only…? If you can do that then sure, nerf it thereafter however you want in terms of it’s 1v1/roaming/dueling… Right now playing a thief in a zerg is not fun, it’s annoying and frustrating being melted like helium. Supporting? Lol, please, guardians (and actually warriors) are much better for that, or any other class for that matter (save ranger, not sure what state they’re are in post-patch but… pre-patch… lol).
If you’re planning to tell me to re-roll if I want zerg, I have. So if that was your suggestion, I suggest you re-roll a thief if you want to duel (or get your said cheese).
That’s really my frustration, getting nerfs, then being targeted for more nerfs… while having to switch to my gaurd/warrior when I want to zerg (WvW, though warriors and guards have better uses in the dungeon too, only starting to learn all of their capabilities).

You’re attempting to get a nerf/counter on something that provides the class with it’s role. In no way do you care about balance/fairness, otherwise you would look at the class as a whole and what it’s capable of besides “cheesing” and making you QQ on the forums. It’s weird, isn’kitten that most thieves prefer to duel, and are generally QQ’ed about it. Yeah one way to look at it is they’re OP in that one area. Another way to look at it is that they only really have that one area (and yeah they do excel at it).

So while you guys are providing counter skills for the feared stealth… can you guys also provide ways for the thief to zerg/support and do other things besides roaming/dueling. Or say how they’re fine in each other area…

Oh yeah, it’s not PvX (for the title of the thread)… it’s PvP in general… or sPvP/tPvP and WvW (most QQ’s come from WvW). I doubt anyone really cares about the thief going stealthed in a dungeon (PvE).

(Cya in an hour… flood control debuff OP)

Thieves do have a purpose in zerg warfare. Their job in zerg warfare is not to run with the zerg. Stay away from the melee train and gank and harass the enemies back line. Take out their Eles and stragglers that stray from the blob. We often run with have 2 thieves when our guild has enough online for precisely that purpose Without eles the opposing group doesn’t have water fields to reset on and they slowly die. The sad thing is thief is not high the priority list for organized groups. Guardians, Warriors, Eles, and Necros come first.

The thing I don’t like about counter play arguments coming from thieves is that is is all guess work. Here is the scenario.

fights starts, thief stealths, is he coming in for a backstab or is he just trying to bait out my blocks and evades, better block just to be safe. I block nothing, thief just danced around me and spammed a few non lethal attack and stealths again. Looks like he is trying to bait out my blocks and evades but what if he is really going to attack this time, better dodge just to be in the safe side. AND, dodge nothing, thief is just laughing while he dances around spamming more low cost attacks and stealths again. I only have 1 dodge left, if I use it for nothing I will die in the next few seconds, if I don’t use and he is really coming in for an attack this time I am dead in the next few seconds.

It’s all guess work, there is no real skill in anticipating attacks from an invisible opponent. It comes down to luck. Am I lucky enough to be fight a nub thief that will follow a predictable pattern or am I fighting someone with half a brain that remotely know his class. If I am fight to former I will get an easy thief kill, if I am fighting the latter I might as well just sit and let him kill me cause there is nothing I can do to stop it.

Best way to optimize crit damage is to take only gear that has a ferocity stat. Play around with different mixes of Valk, Cav, Zerk, and Assassin and you should find a combination that will work for you and get max possible crit damage.

I am really not liking these new dailies. I don’t PvE so if I can’t do it in WvW it doesn’t get done. I pity the hardcore PvP players, they have like 0 chance of getting theirs done.

Agony.3542:

1) Trinkets lost 19,33% critdamage, armor will give you 15,6% crit damage 19,33 > 15,6, armor wont let you compensate the amount of critdamage lost.

If my previous build had 0 crit damage from armor and everything from trinkets and my new build has crit damage on everything but 1 piece then I only lost a little over 4 % in crit damage and still get extra survivability. A zerker build that had crit damage on everything lost about 20% overall (I don’t remember the actual math). My build is now closer to zerker damage than it used to be. The thing is, people are still trying to get the same damage they used to make. Once they accept that it is not going to happen they might realize that those other builds aren’t as bad as they think, relatively speaking.

You are right, 2 wrongs don’t make a right but sometimes I can’t resist being an A-ole.

Agony.3542:

Julie Yann.5379:

You could go Cavalier/Valk mixed with some Zerk/Assassins and get the same or better stats than those prepatch hybrid builds and have the same amount of crit damage as those full zerker cultists and you would still be considered trash cause they considered it trash before the patch. It’s been said god knows how many times, go Zerk or GTFO.

1) No you can’t.
2) It does not matter if one of your stats can match up to full berserker, you will still lack behind in damage. How much is another question, but not intresting for those who want full zerk.
3) What’s your point? That a certain group of players shouldn’t be allowed to play how they want, which includes to chose in what groups they want to play in? What makes the others so special? Where is the issue? Sounds to me like you just want to trash on zerk users.

1. What do you mean I can’t? I did it on one of my WvW builds. I can get more crit damage and close to the same amount of defensive stats with a mix of Valk/Cav/of the knights/Assassin/Zerk that the old PVT/zerk trinket or knights/zerk trinkets people were running prepatch. Higher effective power than my old build but a slightly lower effective health.

2. Exactly, what I was saying. it doesn’t matter if you can get the same stats as those hybrid builds had prepatch. I wasn’t good enough for you then, it’s not going to be good enough for you now.

3. That’s funny, if you run rummage through the forum you will see that there is an abundance of pro zerkers just trashin on non zerkers every chance they get but when it goes in the other direction it becomes a problem and someone get offended Play how ever you like, have your little zerk parties if that is what you enjoy but quit knocking down everyone that chooses to enjoy the game differently. (not speaking of you directly but to the general pro zerker community)

This thread is dying faster that WvW ever will.

Agony.3542:

Flissy.4093:

Clearly you have tested nothing, as Dungeons are currently broken right now and also affected by the script ANet ran to reduce stats of open world mobs.

I’m noticing significant speed increase in all dungeons.

While Warlords post might be somewhat overexaggerated, there is some truth in this. If you just take a look at the numbers you will see where the loss of critical damage is mainly coming from – the trinkets.
Ascender Zerk armor: An equivalent of -20 points of ferocity
Ascended Weapons: An equivalent of -16 points of ferocity
Ascended trinkets: An equivalent of -282 points of ferocity
(What I mean by that is that the pieces would need x more ferocity to reach the old amount).
If you take the amount of overall stats granted into account trinkets got hit 7 times as hard as armor.
Just looking at that, wearing zerker armor now makes more of a difference than pre patch, since the stats on armor will carry more weight now.

Broken scripts wont change that.

You could go Cavalier/Valk mixed with some Zerk/Assassins and get the same or better stats than those prepatch hybrid builds and have the same amount of crit damage as those full zerker cultists and you would still be considered trash cause they considered it trash before the patch. It’s been said god knows how many times, go Zerk or GTFO.

I’ve played TESO and quite frankly, their WvW is not that great. The fights in GW2 are way more fun.

Warlord.9074:

I disagree with the above and I disagree with anet for telling the person above me that. Guess what ANET lies. Its still zerk or gtfo why becasue half zerk half tank or anything less than full zerk is in a worst posistion now than it was before. It just cant cut it anymore. Trust me I know I tried running my full ascended zerk with my soldiers armor in PVE and it is so bad now. Atleast before the damage was still low but decent. NOW? its terribad. You need to go full zerk just to get back to be equivalent of a half zerk before. Now a half zerk now is equivalent to a quater zerk before its pretty drastic. ANET changed nothing they only efffed the game and warriors over more.

I was stating Anet’s logic, not mine. When you look at the math and compare non zerk build DPS to what zerk build DPS is now (not before), it is true. The percentage drop between the 2 is less than it used to be and has less of an impact on party DPS.

Ultimately it is the community that decides what is important or not and it looks like getting the same amount of damage in the party as you had before the patch is what is important, which means full zerk.

So in a way, both statements are true.

I don’t do dungeons cause I think they are lame and I don’t like the way everyone just skips everything. I never agreed with the “go zerk mentallity” In my honest opinion I find that it ruins the game and trivializes the entire PvE. You are frowned upon for trying to think outside the very tiny zerk box. This game was advertised as play how you want to play but it turned out the be play how other people think you should be playing or KICK.

There is absolutely nothing competitive about GW2 PvE, I don’t get what the big deal is about not running the most efficient build. Plz don’t tell me it’s out of respect for your party members cause we all know that is a major load of bull. Nobody cares about wasting other peoples time, all they care about is getting the loot chest quick so they can go loot another. I have play this game since launch and I have never seem any of the dungeon stories because people are in such a hurry the get the kittenty loot that they will kick anyone interested in experiencing the content as it was meant to be and replace them by another mindless zerker bot.

Morsus.5106:

Julie Yann.5379:

Zerk is only important to dungeon speed farmers and they will still be demanding it cause god forbid a run takes a few extra minutes out of their busy schedules. Anet narrowed the gap between Zerker and everything else so technically it is making Zerk less important cause having a non Zerk in your party is a smaller loss in DPS than it used to be.

(Let me just get this out of the way, I’m not a speedrunner, I always bring anyone and everyone who fills up my LFGs with the description of “P- All Welcome”.)
This change has made Zerker MORE important because with the reduction in DPS, we need more of it to make up for it. I typically run Knight’s, but I understand that this will reduce my party’s DPS in dungeons, and now I’m going to have to swap to it to help pick up the loss of DPS.

Before patch you had insane DPS through high crit damage. The difference between someone running full zerk and someone that wasn’t was pretty drastic. They narrowed it down by nerfing crit damage but leaving other power builds the same. Now the difference between the 2 is less. Having someone that isn’t full zerk in your party doesn’t reduce overall party DPS as much as it used too therefore making Zerk less important. Only those still wanting to do 5-10 min dungeons (speedruns) will be crying for full zerk. Anet doesn’t want you to be clearing their dungeons in 5 mins and killing bossing in less than 30 seconds anymore, get use to it.

I’ve had less lag since the feature patch. Still had some skill lag in the SM 3 way cluster kitten but even that was not as bad as it usually is.