Guild Wars 2

Bas.7406:

If you have seen any of our previous weekly profession specific podcast, you would see that when it comes to the profession specific podcast we focus on two things. Bringing great content, and doing it positively. We will discuss the major issues that are preventing the warrior in pvp, as well as it’s humorous PVE reversal and neutral wvwvw position.

We will talk about stupid blocks (Mace 2). Bad traits, skills, animations, extended and easy to spot charges, and so on. The profession is on the warrior itself warts and all. However, we constantly stress to our podcasters that their is the forum way to present things and their is the sittingonacouch way. We believe in being positive about a class even when it is in a bad place, because in the midst of all the issues there are bright spots (maybe not in pvp). So there won’t be bashing, but there will be a legitimate discussion on the pluses and minuses of the Warrior as a class.

Alright, that’s good to hear! I hope you have some length of discussion about Brawn and the rumored Adrenaline Reworks. (Also all warr blocks are bad because all their chain skills are “generate a pitiful amount of adrenaline”.)

Are you going to discuss problems or is this going to be a long session of trying not to step on Arenanet’s toes?

Well either way I’d still watch it.

People ranting about stealth or thief viability in tpvp (when the winners of the Masters of the Mists tournament hosted by gw2guru were running an extremely effective s/d thief Jumper X)

This thread is about weaponskill teleports that essentially function as a stunbreak. On 0-10s cooldowns. I have no idea how people are claiming that this is not just flagrantly OP.

I can safely state for a fact that the initiative cost on Infiltrator’s Strike/Shadow Return is complete piddling when you use it appropriately (i.e., actually using it to avoid damage and not “spam it” as some people trying to Strawman OP are saying)

Just to draw a stark comparison a Warrior’s Lowest cooldown Stunbreak is on a 25s CD, on a utility skill. As OP has stated, thief and mesmers don’t even have to give up a utility slot for the extremely vital stunbreaking ability. Thief has it especially ridiculous due to being able to abuse the vertical axis, having it virtually on demand, as well as it cleansing a condition, meaning most likely it’ll be cleansing immobilize as well. Mesmer has something similar, albeit less effective, having a 10s CD on Phase Retreat.

lupercaleb.6041:

Jzaku.9765:

Ranger: Improve pet attributes by 30%

if i may offer a correction, each point in beast mastery improves pet attributes by 10, up to 300 of each one for a total stat gain of 1200

Noted and fixed!

I feel the need to mention that the fact that their hardware can be so obviously causing a flaw in their game is just terrible design. They should have planned their condition system -around- their hardware limitations, not the other way around.

Daecollo.9578:

should be:

30% of burst damage ignore’s armor+protection+damage reduction.

Daecollo.9578:

It wouldn’t be kittened, it would be good because it means we would do more damage against bunkers and around the same against glass cannons.

Except that resolves absolutely nothing about how a large majority of the Burst Skills don’t do much direct damage.

Dojo.1867:

God that would be kittened as well. Maybe just 30% chance that attacks are unblockable?

How about no??? I don’t want to try eviscerating a guardian using his block heal and PRAYING for that 30% chance to happen. That’s just terrible.

Well it’s been a month and we have gone full circle

Really this is probably because a Warrior is never going to be invited for the SotG discussion.

kRiza krimos.1637:

Elemental could in theory bleed his magic juice, since its imaginary monster so its makers can say it has some sort of life juice going thru it. What does flow thru stone wall, that can damage it by bleeding out?

That is not my point at all and a strongly suggest you reread my post. Stone walls shouldn’t bleed because they have some property that draws a parallel to an organism bleeding, it should bleed because it would be unfair to condition builds otherwise.

As most of you (hopefully) well know by now, there’s a cap on condition stacks of 25. This means that in a scenario where you have two thieves attacking a boss and one of them can achieve a stack of 25 by themselves, the other one essentially becomes useless because they’ve got nothing to stack on. Quite a while back Colin Johanson said in an official interview that the reason this was so was due to hardware issues, and strongly implied that nothing was going to be done about it. The quote is in here:

After a gigantic thread was made about this, what Jon Peters had to say about it was:

JonPeters:

Actually this is not true and is something we are actively looking at. We have a number of solutions that we are talking about and when we are able to figure out which one will have the least impact on balance, performance, and testing we will put that solution in place as soon as possible.
Jon

Happily placating many players that were indignant about a core game mechanic being so fundamentally flawed.

It has been 3 months since.

3 months, and not even a smidgen of news regarding any changes to the way conditions work against other players supposedly helping you. 3 months, with no updates on how condition builds are just outright worse than Berserker builds on a fundamental basis.

Is this their definition of “actively looking at it”? I suppose if you read that literally then yes, they’re definitely looking at it, and not actually doing anything about it.

Can we get an actual status update on the condition cap problem, and not a damage control, crowd-pleasing lie? Does arenanet actually care about this?

kRiza krimos.1637:

Ronin.5038:

Don’t forget that conditions do no damage to objects/structures.
I’d really like to know why something hasn’t been done about conditions on objects/structures.

When you figure out how to bleed wood or stone let us know. Perhaps only burning would make sense but only on wood.

Bleeding and burning work on earth elementals. “Immersion” is basically the absolutely most disgusting way to justify shoddy core game mechanics.

Completely agreed. I’ve always thought it was really stupid how the damage reduction part of Weakness affected glass cannons the /least/.

Getting downed should be something you should be crying yourself to sleep in shame about

Okay it’s sort of acceptable if you’re on like, thief, but getting downed on guard especially is just bringing shame to your family

Why is it the most meaningful thing, not what i bring to the team in utility, not my dps, not my ability to guide teams but people judge you on “if you get downed or not”

If you’re downed you are literally providing nothing to your team, this is why there’s this “stigma” associated with it.

This is hilarious seeing how beastmater ranger is one of the most OP specs in the game right now.

I think that some people should understand that with smoke fields, warriors would not have direct access to stealth like thieves do at all! They will have to use up a leap or blast finisher to achieve stealth, and this leads to a certain amount of predictability. For example, if a warrior bull’s charges through a smoke field from a distance away on an axe/shield weaponset, it’s still extremely predictable what he will do next (eviscerate or shield bash then eviscerate).

A lot of warrior discussion going on right now, I’d like to know what you guys think of this suggested buff to warrior~

As every person who has pvp’d for a decent amount of time knows by now, warriors have some serious survivability issues in PvP. This is a suggestion to rectify that issue without (hopefully) making them unstoppable beasts in PvP (lol). Smoke fields would provide clutch applications of blinds and stealth, giving warriors some much needed survivability mechanics.

But why smoke fields? Wouldn’t that make warriors like thieves?

An excellent question! This is because I know that anet has an (unfortunate) obsession with plausibility, and the most plausible field for warriors to have other than fire would be smoke (by pounding the ground or stirring up dust in whatever way).

The caveat is that the warrior’s smoke fields differ from the thief’s in that they
1) Don’t pulse blind, only apply it once when it appears
2) Are very short duration (think 2-3 seconds)

This means that a warrior would have to make /very/ good use of their finishers to turn these smoke fields into a real survivability mechanic. Not to mention using up their finishers for these smoke fields means they’re using up key skills like arcing arrow!

As for what skills get smoke fields, my suggestions are:

Longbow 4: Now sets down a 3s smoke field as well.
Hammer 4: Whirl with great force, stirring up a dust cloud smoke field for 3s. (also improve its range or something jeez)
Greatsword F1: Smash the ground, stirring up a 2s smoke field.

A polite request for the mods not to move this thread to the warrior forums as this is a specifically PvP suggestion thread and I don’t want a million wvw or pve warriors telling me how much they own in a zerg or how their 100b damage is already so op that they don’t need more buffs.

pot.6805:

Can you post the results? I did the survey the other day but cannot pull up the results again.

Try

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1Obmt1R5CXIZeDFop8GIYFWJ-HKgPa3SrfpKwXTp9mw4/viewanalytics

Hilarious how according to this Warriors have the best advantage against Warriors (18), but the profession with the best advantage against us is…. not warriors (0), meaning we’re just pathetically inept at killing any class other than ourselves.

LameFox.6349:

Scoobaniec.9561:

LameFox.6349:

The engineer shield skill doesn’t ‘block’ btw. Reflecting projectiles is its primary function.

Toolkit>Gear shield> block attacks for 3sec (like shield stance)>20cd

Even if we trait for shield we still have it on longer cd.

This isn’t the skill he’s referring to; gear shield does nothing but block.

You’re right, I mistook gear shield and the actual shield’s blocks as the same skill.

How about thief’s stolen whirlwind axe which is better than ours in every single way

Or heartseeker which is a spammable Eviscerate

Or engineer shield block which innately reflects projectiles and doubles as a blast finisher with knockback on the exact same cooldown..

I wonder if people complaining about this realize that you need 5 pvp dailies done to fulfill the daily reward chest.

And there are 6 pvp dailies available.

Boon stealing is an interesting mechanic and is on a really telegraphed skill so I’m fine with it.

Warrior’s version of boon hate is what I would consider the hilariously lazy balancing, I was making jokes that they would make boon hate something entirely worthless like a direct increase in damage for weeks before the patch and… It actually happened, fixing absolutely nothing about the class, adding no new dynamics to warrior play, not to mention putting it in the glass cannon traitline as a grandmaster trait.

They should have just made something about warr destroy boons, that’s way less OP than thief’s boon stealing but yet somehow a massive improvement to what we have right now.

TheGuy.3568:

I think this s a mind set issue with many warriors. Not all weapon sets need burst. Sustained DPS on sword isn’t that bad. The Idea you need burst comes from 100B madness. You don’t have to burst everything down sustained DPS is alright also.

Another thing i wouldn’t be a fan of Sword and condition damage. It doesn’t stack up bleeds fast enough, consistent enough, or long enough. I would and do use it with more of a power build.

I wouldn’t carry over axe in PvE but outside if that I would.

Except the entire point of flurry is a burst of bleeding damage. Even the Immob (which most warriors use creatively by canceling flurry itself) was designed for the entire flurry channel to go off.

And it’s terrible at it.

A warrior spec’d into direct damage would do so much more damage in one skill use with Eviscerate or Killshot. You can’t even fix this via the most obvious way because ramping up it’s damage component would involve stacking more bleeds which makes it immediately ram into the bleed cap.

>shouts have low healing
>decide to fix this by getting more hp pool
>so your shouts start healing only like 7% of your hp

????

Edited OP with popular suggested changes to Brawn to hopefully keep up discussion

Kurow.6973:

No need to get your jimmies so rustled.

It’s called a mistype. It’s especially common when someone types from a mobile device.

Kurow.6973:

3% bonus burst damage 24/7 to the already heavy hitting finishers at max crit trait…and you’re complaining? I can’t tell if this is serious.

Hahaha no. Sorry, but there’s no excuse for blatantly not reading the thread at all then trying to be condescending.

Updated OP with information to promote (hopefully) better discussion.

WELP time to change the title to “yet another PATCH”

zone.1073:

The reason why it has been 9 months since major revisions were given to warriors was because at the time of beta, ArenaNet felt that warriors were in a good place in balance. All of the alpha testers unanimously agreed that warriors had the most diverse build choices, strong map presence, and overall good balance. So, ANet allocated all of their resources to working on the other classes.

Now that all of the classes (except warriors) have been fine-tuned with the appropriate buffs and nerfs over the months, Anet can finally revisit warriors. Remember, warriors were their first class that they designed, so they felt that warriors set the standard for balance, believe it or not. And warriors were good at the time – until players started figuring out how to play eles, and thieves, etc, and realized the potential of those classes far exceeded what warriors could possibly ever do.

You post as if you were representing Arenanet. While I admire your optimism, the sad fact of the matter is that they have most likely simply forgotten/do not care about the current state of brawn. They proved that they can completely miss glaring issues like these with the reaction they showed upon being told that Flurry doesn’t activate Building Momentum (despite this being reported as a bug since… forever).

Also, I do not believe that Dogged March/Boon Hate will change that much about the state of pvp warrior. Small access to regen, while helpful, is not nearly enough to put warrior on the same level, sustainability-wise, as other classes. Boon Hate seems to be replacing the grandmaster traits in the Discipline Line, requiring heavy investment into critical damage (thus being counterproductive to “obtain moderately decent damage without having to build glassy”). It also just happens to be the traitline with Brawn, which, hey, brings us full circle to the main point of this topic!

Those prerelease videos of Warrior being effective in pvp mean nothing in the present time. Warriors were made to be simple to pick up and be moderately effective, every other class were playing at maybe 20% of their full potential while warriors were easily achieving 60%. The sad truth, as we know it now, ~9 months into release, is that warrior’s 100% doesn’t remotely hold a candle to any of the other class’s 100%.

That’s why we’re posting about it in a much more visible part of the forums to gather attention on the subject.

The subject being how this stupid placeholder stat is still in the game after 9 months

zone.1073:

Going by ArenaNet’s trends, it is obvious that the change to Brawn from 30% down to 3% was a temporary solution to the warrior’s high damage during beta. They just haven’t gotten around to finding a more permanent solution.

That’s just how Anet deals with things. First implement the fundamentals, then later smooth out the edges. Just like the matchmaking system, leaderboards, and tournament system – the main idea is implemented first, and then over time it gets streamlined.

I hope you are aware that this issue didn’t suddenly pop up last patch or something. It’s been like this since beta. Approximate 9 months ago by now. With no word of even acknowledging the matter at all from Arenanet.

That sure sounds like “streamlining” and definitely seems “temporary”.

AlBundy.7851:

I don’t think Brawn was mentioned

It definitely wasn’t.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Yet-another-SotG-w-o-anyone-mentioning-Brawn/

If you do post there remember that this thread is in the pvp forums though. No PvE opinions allowed.

tarcheg.4872:

It never was +30% dmg at any point – it was just a display bug which got fixed to the actually value of 3%.
Nevertheless, by far the most useless “skill line stat” there is.

I’m pretty sure it actually was 30% in the Beta Events, but it got kneejerk nerfed straight into the fiery depths of hell due to a one-hit kill combo of eviscerate + guaranteed crit on weaponswap + extra damage on weaponswap.

Everything about that build was nerfed, from brawn to evis base damage to removing one of the sigils that allowed that combo.

Just wait untill it starts stealing all of your boons constantly because lolnocooldowns

JohnDied.3476:

I think your damage will be fine without +30%, maybe it should go somewhere else like killthehealersffs said.

Nobody is saying that warrior DAMAGE is not fine. Also:

Jzaku.9765:

Personally I don’t think Brawn should be “Burst Skill Damage” at all.

Jzaku.9765:

As I have already stated, I don’t think that “Burst Skill Damage Increase” should be brawn’s effect seeing as a majority of the Burst Skills don’t do much damage.
Normally I would have suggested that they remove “Quick Bursts” (-20% on Burst skill cooldown) and make Brawn reduce burst skill cooldown by 1% per point. However they’re baking both Quick Bursts and Adrenal Reserves into a combined trait, reducing burst skill cooldowns could still work I suppose, being able to use your burst skill every 5s isn’t much of an issue because your adrenaline doesn’t build quickly enough to keep up unless you spec for it, which is a different tree entirely.

It’s almost like what this person is saying is entirely true:

nakoda.4213:

why is it that the engies who post outside of the engie forum always profess to know more about their alt classes than their main classes which they barely know how to play?

google, give it a rest. you and waka both make poor ambassadors.

I would strongly suggest you read the thread before trying (and failing!) to be condescending.

NevirSayDie.6235:

And really, the only reason the engineer trait is bad is that most of our decent toolbelt skills are un-useful. 30% CD reduction is actually quite nice in a power-nade build because of barrage, but who wants to be able to throw elixirs 30% faster? No one.

HGH Engineer loves being able to throw elixirs 30% faster. Really having 4 skills cooldown faster is amazing.

fony.5102:

we have always had a trait that gives a auto shake it off every 20 seconds or so when you have more than one condition. i know, the famous retort “not good enoguh” is to follow.

It’s ICD is 30s. And yes, a single condition cleanse that you can’t control and you can’t keep track (due to ICDs being invisible) and procs on any condition application is “not enough”

In fact that’s probably the worse case of condition removal you could bring up trying to defend warrior’s condition cleansing ability

Resouled.5614:

Change it to reduce condition duration either 15-30% and it’s all good. What warrior needs is defensive buffs. Not offensive ones.

All the class-specific stats affect the special class gimmick though. It’d be really off for warrior’s to be that different.

As I have already stated, I don’t think that “Burst Skill Damage Increase” should be brawn’s effect seeing as a majority of the Burst Skills don’t do much damage.
Normally I would have suggested that they remove “Quick Bursts” (-20% on Burst skill cooldown) and make Brawn reduce burst skill cooldown by 1% per point. However they’re baking both Quick Bursts and Adrenal Reserves into a combined trait, reducing burst skill cooldowns could still work I suppose, being able to use your burst skill every 5s isn’t much of an issue because your adrenaline doesn’t build quickly enough to keep up unless you spec for it, which is a different tree entirely.

google.3709:

lol you’re funny, i guess CoF P1 farm will do that to your brain, if its not pure damage is worthless.. but you really need to think about balance. if they give back the 1% they will have to take damage away from most skills forcing people into glassier builds, but then again. i wouldn’t mind the warrior being easier to kill js ..

anyways i’m out! not in the mood to deal with a little cry baby QQ haha

>completely misread people’s posts
>calls other people stupid
>think’s im talking about pve in the s/tpvp forums
>doesn’t bother to go back and reread after being suggested to do so

Is being this stupid allowed by the laws of the universe?? Holy kitten.

google.3709:

I guess only one of us have played warrior, and will give you a clue, its not you , Flurry is a condition based burst skill. Skull Crack not bash.. is a control based skill and Arcing Slice idk, but does GS really needs more damage ?

…I would strongly recommend you learn to actually read.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

Jzaku.9765:

They also said it’s going to be a new ~Condition~, and thus other classes should also have access to the effects that this new skill will cause

Ugh… There goes any possibility of Necromancer actually feeling like a Necromancer.

?

The skill can still LOOK and FEEL necromacer-y, the condition it applies just has to be sort of generalized.

Something like:

Grenth’s Grasp: Crush your opponent’s mortal coil, infliction terrible wounds upon their body; 5s channel, 1 pulse per second, inflict 1s of deep wounds per hit.

They said it’s going to be a skill specifically for Death Shroud

They also said it’s going to be a new ~Condition~, and thus other classes should also have access to the effects that this new skill will cause

I’d say Deep Wound (-20% max HP and reduces healing effectiveness) should be a prime candidate due to it’s general-purpose application across all classes (As in, almost all classes can have access to this new condition)

google.3709:

oh buddy! Engineers will gladly trade you 30% recharge for your 12k esviserates or 18k+ killshots ANYDAY!

>Probably a WvW screenshot
>The image is literally named baddies_2.png

Terrible players running full GC getting killed by a full GC Rifle warrior, not even dodging killshot despite being thieves and rangers

Also I hope you realize that if they were spec’d 30 points into discipline Brawn added ~500 damage to that 18k killshot

Personally I don’t think Brawn should be “Burst Skill Damage” at all.

madatom.5218:

zaku pls….

stawp

No

Warrior is absolutely terrible in pvp and anything that helps it along should be seriously considered.

madatom.5218:

Brutal Arts.6307:

The devs will just tell you it’s working as intended. Like deathshroud disabling weaponswap.

or they will call you a scrub and tell you to L2P
the head dev is a 5 sig warrior…

“He did that for a very good reason guys”
“All signets are getting flat increases to the passive stats they give!”
“This will definitely make 5sig viable”

Not even joking this was in the SotG

EDITED IN TO CLARIFY THE SUBJECT:

• Brawn affects Burst Skill Damage, the warrior profession mechanic attached to adrenaline. Not the concept of Burst Damage which is exemplified by say, 100b.
• Only Killshot and Eviscerate do high damage. The rest of the Burst Skills do medium to terrible direct damage.
• I, as the OP, do not actually believe this stat should be increasing Damage, should it ever be fixed. I’d much rather it be anything else.

WILL EDIT IN MORE STUFF AS PEOPLE CONTINUE TO POST FLAGRANTLY UNEDUCATED OPINIONS

“Increase Burst Skill Damage by 0.1% per point in the Discipline traitline.”

Not that I can blame the community guests for not knowing about this because literally nobody important plays warrior; But this is absolutely ridiculous and I feel a key reason why warriors are terrible in pvp. We essentially have a stat that is entirely useless built into our critical damage line.

I can’t be the only one who realizes how ridiculous this hasn’t been looked at since beta, when it was nerfed into the ground from 1%>0.1% because of the 1shot eviscerate build.

Also in case you, the reader of this thread, is really thick and think this stat is actually useful, investing 30 points into discipline would give you a grand total of…. +3% burst skill damage.

Let’s draw a parallel to every other class’s specific stat at max trait investment:

Elementalist: -30% cooldowns on Attunementswap
Engineer: -30% cooldowns on Toolbelt skills
Guardian: -30% cooldowns on Virtues
Mesmer: -30% cooldowns on Shatters
Thief: -30% cooldown on Steal
Necromancer: Increase Death Shroud healthpool by 30%
Ranger: Improve all pet attributes by 300, total of 1200

Aaaaaaand
Warrior: +3% damage increase on your burst skills, most of which don’t do much direct damage.

I would also like to kindly request this thread doesn’t get moved to the warrior forums, because that just kills any chance whatsoever it’s getting read by the people actually in charge of fixing kitten like this.

EDIT:
Popular suggested changes to Brawn:

• Increase Adrenaline buildup rate up to 30%
• Decrease Burst Skill cooldown up to 30%
• Increase Burst Skill damage up to 15%, or revert it back to 30% with a nerf to the base damage of Killshot and Eviscerate (Personally I am not a fan of this because a large majority of the other burst skills don’t do much direct damage at all)

Ambrecombe.4398:

Jzaku.9765:

Writetyper.1985:

This thread is a mess. OP is probably talking about warriors in the context of PvP and then some guy comes in with PvE analogies and then another with WvW zerging, someone else with WvW roaming, and then we’re back to PvP again.

That’s what happens when you try to talk about pvp warrior anywhere but the pvp forums

Just a whole bunch of dumb people who can’t read for kitten posting their walls of text of uneducated opinions, sometimes on the entirely wrong topic

Was it ever mentioned that this was a s/Pvp post? There was a good assumption it was about pvp in general and Warrior surviability but if you read the top comments they all had a fairly good place in this topic.

So, instead of calling out people for beeing uneducated and dumb, why don’t you start by reading your own post and take your own advice into consideration.

Thank you for your comprehention!

>Actually needing to “build for sustain” in anything PvE related

Thank you for proving my point entirely.

I would suppose WvW is marginally acceptable but really all you’re doing there is either zerging, being zerged, or roaming around looking for 2v1 situations so your actual build doesn’t really matter.

Writetyper.1985:

This thread is a mess. OP is probably talking about warriors in the context of PvP and then some guy comes in with PvE analogies and then another with WvW zerging, someone else with WvW roaming, and then we’re back to PvP again.

That’s what happens when you try to talk about pvp warrior anywhere but the pvp forums

Just a whole bunch of dumb people who can’t read for kitten posting their walls of text of uneducated opinions, sometimes on the entirely wrong topic

Ninestrings.2815:

Either you are a bad warrior player or someone told you warriors suck.

False. Warriors aren’t weak. Fact is people keeping addressing them as weak because they require something called play-style. And if you don’t have that, you’re obviously just trolling with warrior .

To use the maximum potential in a warrior, it’s not enough to know that Greatsword and axe-shield is the best combo, or that taking bull and endure pain are best skills, it is also essential to know what traits you use and what is your build focus on.

The most casual builds you ever meet would be either zerker gear or knight gear. This is something I have noticed .

Saying warrior is a weak class without actually proving it against so many videos showing warriors own- is just wrong.

In other words ,what I am trying to convey is that before coming and open another “Warriors suck” topic, try learn more about the class and it’s potential . read guides, test out build and enjoy .

False. Everything you said in your post is false.

See how easily I dismissed your entire post like how you’re trying to do with every (legitimate) issues warriors have in actual pvp?

Additionally, I would like to request that people in this thread stop being pants-on-head kitten because this is clearly a S/TPvP thread and bringing up WvW and PvE(especially so) is completely out of point.