The CC is hardly all that impressive or unique being that it’s so easily countered by blinds and people who know how to press dodge when I’m flying in the air or pulling it back for a charge smash.
I dont see why Hammer is more vulnerable to blinds and dodges than any other melee weapon?
Because it attacks hilarious slow.
For them to look at ANYTHING except banners for ____ing once, like any of the multitude of warrior problems.
Oh I can’t believe I forgot this…
Signet of Stamina is bugged.
The passive stamina regen is only increased by 30% (I counted the ticks one by one), not 50% as the tooltip states.
From memory I always thought it was a 33% increase. The tooltip in true Anet style doesn’t actually state how much it increases stamina regen either. Did I miss something?
I feel that Balance and build diversity are just as important because it keeps combat fresh and exciting, ergo more fun and attracts more players.
On a related note, I want balance patches to happen much, much more frequently than once a month. with the typical size of the balance related content in these monthly updates we should be getting them at LEAST bi-weekly.
I absolutely refuse to believe that these “slow and steady” number tweaks take a while month to code and roll out, nor do I believe that they need to have meetings to discuss if these (usually) insignificant number tweaks will make classes OP.
That’s not the worst part about burning. It is singlehandedly the worst condition for a party situation. Assuming 5 people capable of applying burns are in a party only ONE of them are doing dps through burn at any one time. Compound this with how Ele can achieve permanent burning as part of their skill rotation (with warr and guard coming in close) it’s just absolutely terrible.
I’m starting to think its impossible for larger companies to develop good PvP for a very simple reason: they are not good players and don’t understand the intricasies of what’s required for a healthy system. And why should they. They are hired based on experience and coding skills not on PvP acumen.
This is why I believe interaction with high level players in the community is so important. They have the knowledge and are happy to help for free. Its a shame no ones willing to swallow enough pride for that to happen
They do mention that they have a bunch of “internal testers” whom they trust above all else
I’m pretty sure they have some kind of terrible meta going on that doesn’t reflect the actual meta at all.
“No Ele changes coming next patch”
“Warriors are close to becoming an unstoppable beast”
“Thieves need more mobility”
“Necromancer has a lot of viable builds”
“Guardians are perfect the way they are”
(edited by Jzaku.9765)
Yeah no. I’m all for improving warrior but you realize you are giving perma prot+++ or perma frenzy with these changes. That’s just flagrantly overpowered.
text
Don’t forget their brief chat about people being pigeon-holed into using certain weapons/utilities because they’re way too good -
And then not mentioning how GS is almost indisputably the best weapon for everything warrior related. It’s gotten so bad that people are constantly referring to warrior as if GS was inbuilt into the class.
Very good news regarding the banner buffs. It’s about time those things are given some real utility.
some real utility.
They are going to function exactly the same, just tweaked in numbers. That hardly constitutes as “utility”.
I would like to recommend that Grouch rotate the community representatives to encompass all classes. What we had with 2 Mesmer mains representing lead to the only real indepth discussion taking place.. about mesmers, an already strong and popular class.
It would make much more sense for weaker pvp classes to represent so some actual discussion can take place during their segments.
Like really, I was begging for Xeph or Nero so say anything when they were speaking about buffing Rampage, Kick and Banners.
if you didnt know ppl who play mesmer are extremely skilled and know more about this game than other profession players
interesting, when did this happen?
Same time all thieves became master players because they could stack xxKiLlStReAkSxx in hotjoin
I am not saying they are not experienced players with knowledge on other classes, but I seriously doubt they know more than experienced players that actually main said other classes.
I was pretty happy with the questions asked by both non-anet guests. Nero did try to force them to specify what they meant by “we’re looking into it”, which made me feel this perverse sense of vindication when they couldn’t properly answer it (because it’s their catch-all phrase that means nothing but takes pressure off them). What I would have a problem with is how both of them are Mesmer mains. It would make a lot more sense to have the weaker pvp classes get more in-depth talk-time during interviews like these.
Is there a link to this SotG?
Oh of course, adding that in now. I always forget to source stuff.
The transcript really sounds like it’s stretching what the devs said about everything though, what I took away from those ~5 minutes was not nearly that positive and “change being looked into confirmed to be implemented!”.
(edited by Jzaku.9765)
“We’re buffing kick, rampage, and banners. We’re aware of warrior’s vulnerability to conditions.”
Look at the past patch changes to warriors. This is like going to the moon and back for ArenaNet with warrior changes.
Oh yeah, I think I just blocked that whole part about rampage out of my brain.
Do take note of how they just glossed over “warrior’s vulnerability to conditions” like that was a granted thing. I don’t think they see it as a problem, despite clearly being one to anyone who gives a cat.
They only barely hinted at the real problems with warriors. The entire segment was just disturbing. Buffing kick, really? OH BOY THAT’LL SURE HELP.
Quite frankly I think the failing there was having 2 mesmer players be the community representatives. I was inwardly begging them to say something – anything! Significant during the entire warrior segment. Instead the only real indepth discussion was about an already popular class having it’s utilities made even better at the cost of shatters being reduced in power. Not that I am complaining about that, it’s just that it would make a lot more sense for the low-tier classes to get more talk-time.
(edited by Jzaku.9765)
Paraphrased summary of everything warrior-related from the 14/3/13 PvP State of the Game discussion
Transcript and Video of said discussion if you were so inclined:
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/news/1070-gurus-spvp-state-of-the-game-w-tyler-bearce-jonathan-sharp-and-karl-mclain/
- “We are afraid that making changes to the Warrior will make them unstoppable beasts in PvP”
- “Some Warrior builds are absolutely disgusting in PvP” (In an OP way, Most likely referring to bullsrush-100b combo )
- “We’re looking into giving Warrior access to ‘boon hate’ (what they described as being a flat % damage boost scaling with the number of boons on the target)”
- Only concrete thing on the patch notes is that banners are being buffed (again) to give more flat stat bonuses than they used to
- There was no mention about warrior mobility – in fact they mentioned that the thief of all classes should get more accessible mobility skills
- No mention about Brawn being a 3% bonus to burst damage at max
Let’s get the discussion rolling.
I have no idea how they arrived at these conclusions for warr.
(edited by Jzaku.9765)
Your level counter will update and increase by 1 before all the exp sparkles fill up the exp bar.
Indeed, but the stealth change is on schedule behind the Warrior class revamp.
So, be alert, for as soon as you see warriors being rebalanced, stealth comes next.
Do you even have a source for this
Like really
Arms – Oppotunist: Doesn’t work with Geomancy sigils. This makes no sense.
That does actually make no sense at all. Should probably be removed.
It’s unnecessary, and whirlwind attack already evades. A better buff would be “Movement skills cure chill, cripple, and immobilize.”
>unnecessary because of a specifically GS movement skill
what if I want to use other weapons
???
If you want to use other weapons, evasion during movement abilities is the least of your concerns.
So what you’re saying is that you’re perfectly cool with us being pigeon-holed into using only 1 weapon and buffs to other weaponsets are unnecessary?
It’s unnecessary, and whirlwind attack already evades. A better buff would be “Movement skills cure chill, cripple, and immobilize.”
>unnecessary because of a specifically GS movement skill
what if I want to use other weapons
???
Do note how the OP does not even mention the circumstances you are bringing up as a problem, rather it focuses on a few key weak combo effects and the much rarer combo finisher effects.
DarksunG, please even try to back up that opinion with some hard numbers. Tip: you can’t when referring to condition DAMAGE, vulnerability not withstanding.
In light of what seems to be a common opinion that there is not enough teamwork encouraged in combat, it would seem that another look at this thread be in order as arenanet themselves seem to think that the combo system be the true teamwork mechanic, except most of the effects suck.
To everyone bringing up loot drops: please stop. While it is a legitimate issue related to the topic at hand, it is still a tangent to the main issue being discussed in this threopad and opens up the option for any developer to simply address the tangent while ignoring the main subject entirely, like “damage done does not influence loot drops as long a you qualify for loot.”, thread closed.
This is a tactic they have successfully applied a number of times, such as addressing loot QUANTITY in a loot QUALITY thread then closing it.
I doubt changing this will have any effect on pvp balance seeing as players have much more condition cleansing that removes the entire stack, and a hard limit of 5 conditions builds can be in play at any time.
I don’t remember this conditions damage Nerf, mind elaborating.
Please don’t be intentionally dense, they obviously mean “Use the playstyle you want” when they say “Play the game your way!”. Meaning that every form of damage should be equally viable for any content. Condition damage is clearly absolutely nothing close to that vision seeing as how any 2 condition damage builds attacking the same mob will be stepping on each other’s toes and rendering any more condition damage players absolutely helpless.
If fact burning alone can be maintained PERMANENTLY by any ONE warrior/guardian/elementalist easily rendering any burns after that essentially 0 dps. It really is the worst offender of conditions being bad in group situations.
(edited by Jzaku.9765)
He openly admits they aren’t considering it in seperate places within just what you quoted in the op. What more do you want? But he also says its interesting and worth a look. How you interperet that, and how you presume to know what there thought processes and internal conversations look like, is all on you.
As for the rest saying it can be done quickly and easily and everything else… you don’t know what tools their engineers have developed for the backend. You don’t know how it works… you haven’t seen it… you don’t know what flaws it has and why… you know absolutely nothing about their code, why it operates the way it does, and why it doesn’t operate in another way.
1) Seriously go read any other Q&A session and count how many times “That’s an interesting idea!” is said.
2) What I do know is that engine limitations should in no way influence key game mechanic balances.
25 stacks is a lot so if one character can reach that then they have got possibly a min -maxxed build and possible they should balance for more burst damage or heals or survivability . Remember conditions can NOT be measured like for like with most burst damage as conditions are not affected by armour or toughness or protection. Also a full stack of conditions can be removed at once so it would be of more benefit if skills can restack that condition very fast if it is removed suddenly than one massive stack from all professions being removed suddenly and having to wait for some longer skill refreshes.
1) Not even close, any remotely good condition build can and will be stacking a minimum of 15 stacks on a regular basis.
2) Extremely circumstantial advantages of condition damage should not be considered when comparing it to direct damage. How often are you going to be fighting enemies like that? Are you going to respec to a conditions build JUST to fight these mobs?
3) Easily solved by having each individual person have their personal stacks. Skills like epidemic can just spread the highest stacked bleed at the moment of casting.
(edited by Jzaku.9765)
Is anything being done to address that to make them (conditions) less redundant?
To which colin replies that it is a very interesting idea that might foster better team play… in other words a remake of class skills so that there is less overlap. This is a solution that works within the technical limitations he presented in the first part of his response. But he also discusses general quality of life issues such a massive rework would cause for the classes affected if they could no longer stack certain conditions.
You clearly haven’t read any other meet n’ greet or AMA or anything else like that because if you did you’d know that “That’s a very interesting idea!” means “We’re not doing anything about it nor have we thought of doing anything about it, but we’re going to say it’s a nice idea to make you feel good about yourself”.
There’s a cap on condition stacks of 25. In a scenario where you have two thieves attacking a boss and one of them can achieve a stack of 25 by themselves, the other one essentially becomes useless because they’ve got nothing to stack on. Is anything being done to address that to make them less redundant?
Colin: Currently no. Interesting statistic for you: every condition in the game costs server bandwidth. ‘Cause we have to track how often the condition is running, what the duration of that condition is and what the stack is. So the more stacks we allow them more expensive it gets because we’re tracking every additional stack on there. And so we could, say, you can have infinite stacks. Number one: that becomes really unbalanced. But number two: it’s actually extremely expensive for us, on a performance basis. That’s one of those weird, kind of back-end server issues that can help make game designer decisions regardless of what you want to do with it.
One of the things people have been talking about is having their own individual stack limit that they can apply, rather than an infinite amount on one boss.
Colin: Yes, it’s tough. It’s certainly something we can look at, it does drastically change the way that the professions play, right? It does say “you can no longer stack all of one type of condition”. It might change the skills on each profession if we were to do that. It would encourage a little more group play to some extent. It’s not something we’re really talking about, but it’s an interesting idea. I’d have to think a lot about what the effects of that would be overall, but it’s an interesting… interesting idea.
So we can derive at least 2 things from this:
*Colin himself doesn’t actually understand his own game and doesn’t realize that 5 condition builds in a party without a condition cap would be outputting equivalent damage as 5 direct damage builds because on an individual level they are equal
*He seems to think it’s perfectly okay to leave it as terrible as it is because fixing it would make hosting more expensive. I.E., it’s okay to leave things completely unbalanced.
I’ve never understood the condition cap stuff. If it means they get to powerful, then why are they ticking for so much damage? I JUST CAN’T COMPREHEND IT.
Dev (or somebody) please explain.
The idea is that you don’t get roving mobs of CD users. On something with a lot of heath I can maintain 12-14 stacks of bleeding. If you have 5 or 10 necros all doing the same thing, without a cap, you’re going to put even champions down very quickly. What I don’t understand is that while CD users have caps, there are no limitations on the amount of damage a group of warriors can cause. This is one of the largest reasons the classes are unbalanced. CD users have a cap on the amount of damage they can cause, 25 stacks total, to the point that groups of CD users will actually gimp each other, while melee classes are not subject to such restrictions.
I have no idea what you are trying to say here as you answer your own question in your own post. On an individual basis condition damage builds have completely no SIGNIFICANT advantage damage-wise over direct damage builds. In fact it’s actually weaker by some margin, so the “5 or 10 necros all doing the same thing, without a cap,” would be doing exactly the same (or less!) damage as any 5 direct damage builds attacking the same mob.
Sword’s Burst Skill Flurry doesn’t work with 15 point minor trait in Strength, Building Momentum. Pretty major bug imo.
15 point trait in Strength “Building Momentum” doesn’t work with Sword’s burst skill flurry
This seems like a pretty major bug.
The only part of warrior I enjoy is the fact I have -one- good thing whilst not being able to do utility or properly tank. If you don’t give us a HUGE survivability increase, you shouldn’t take away the only thing that allows us to live, -ok- dps. Colin already stated that we are at a disadvantage. Deal with it.
I’m quite confused as to what you mean here. Are you saying that:
1) You are ok with greatsword being the only truly “good” weapon in the warrior’s repertoire
2) You think that the greatsword’s huge burst deeps is the only thing that keeps you as a warrior alive as you kill enemies before they manage to kill you
3) And that it is somehow okay that as a class on a whole we are at a disadvantage compared to other classes?
Rifle
killshot * reduce damage by 20%, reduce skill activation time to 1.25 s. Currently kill shot can do huge damage, but it is extremely easy to dodge due so long activation time
I really doubt making it cast ~slightly~ faster is going to help with it’s flagrantly obvious animation. Personally I’d rather keep the damage and cast time as-is and use it as and initiator where nobody notices me.
Main-hand Sword
final thrust – do 10% less damage normally and additional 20% damage if the target is under 50% healthGeneral changes to one handed sword: slightly decrease the bleeding damage, but make it occur faster. Currently even 19 seconds bleeds are not uncommon and very impractical in pvp or WvWvW (the condition gets removed before it takes full effect). Slightly increase the direct damage. Sword is extremely weak against objects (immune to bleed) and targets, which can cure/remove condition fast. Currently offhand sword does only condition damage. It could do a little less condition damage, but more direct damage
Final Thrust being changed like that seems really redundant. It’d be much better if it was +30% damage if the target was under 50% health. It does no bleed and Sword’s zerker-stats dps falls far behind axe/GS anyway.
As for the bleed changes, a massive issue (that is not directly related to warr) is that “increasing the speed at which bleeds happen” means more stacks of bleed over a shorter duration, which leads to hitting the 25 bleed cap way faster.
What a remarkably generic build
MH Sword: Have Hamstring built into Savage Leap; Skill 3 replaced with something that gives us any of the other damaging conditions (Poison/Confusion/Burn, in order of preference) or even a short duration daze/stun to really make it a utility weapon.
Increase the base damage (not bleed damage) of the burst skill Flurry; keeping with the idea that the sword is a hybrid weapon. The burst skill really shouldn’t be doing less damage than Final Thrust, especially considering how long the channel is.
OH Sword: have Impale deliver all of it’s bleed stacks at once rather than 1 additional stack per tick so using Rip is less ridiculously finicky as waiting for all 4 bleed stacks to apply before Rip causes it to have a very short window of opportunity before the timer runs out on Rip.
MH Mace: Have it’s autoattack sped up a little and the duration of weakness applied be lowered to compensate for the increased rate of application.
Related to Sword and Mace blocks: Give them an additional effect aside from “deal damage” on a successful block. Ranger’s Block does damage and knocks back, Mesmer’s block does damage and summons an illusion. Warrior’s block just…. does damage.
Also, get rid of the extremely awful block-cancel that grants a pathetic amount of adrenaline, every class’s blocks except warrior’s deliver something useful for canceling a block (Engineer cancels shield block to throw a dazing shield, Mesmer fires of a bolt that dazes everyone in a line, etc)
OH axe: Increase the animation speed of Dual Strike and have it give 2 stacks of Might with 7s duration, as it is right now it’s kind of redundant in most warrior builds and a really awful break in DPS compared to all your autoattacks on mainhand weapons.
Also increase Whirling Axe’s damage or something, it’s just really sad right now. At least increase the pathetic damage coefficient so it scales better with power. Even being one of the few long duration whirl finishers doesn’t save it because whirl combos suck as they deliver exactly the same effects as projectile finishers which are spammable.
Greatsword: Decrease 100b’s damage by maybe 20% OR switch it with Arcing Slice, turning it into the burst skill, causing the main reason to use a GS to be the mobility it provides. Also allow slow movement during the channeling of 100b (approximately the same speed as backpedaling). Greatsword should be either an amazing spike damage weapon or one of the best sources of mobility a warrior has, not both at the same time. Change the forceful greatsword trait to affect every weapon at a slightly reduced chance.
Hammer: Increase the animation speed on the autoattack so it’s much easier to land without having to cc enemies first; I assumed that cc is supposed to be saved for opportune moments, not just to land your autoattack combo.
Longbow: Have the “Stronger Bowstrings” trait baked into the weapon. I know it comes with a lot of stealth improvements to all the skills as well, but honestly Longbow without this trait is just plain not worth using, causing a requirement to spec into a trait line that doesn’t mesh with their playstyle at all (tactics being a very support/defense oriented traitline.)
Increase the rate at which Arcing Arrow flies through the air.
Have Fan of Fire’s middle arrow to hit twice and deliver it’s burn twice so it’s actually usable at a long distance. It’s pretty silly to have a ranged weapon with such a melee oriented straight-up damage ability.
Rifle: Reduce Brutal Shot’s casting time by like, 75%. I have no idea why it has such a long casting time for just 5 stacks of vuln which axe and mace apply instantly, even if it is a ranged application.
Warhorn: Have “Charge” apply Cripple to surrounding enemies to keep with the theme of “inspire allies, demoralize enemies” that Call to Arms seems to have.
Sigil of Earth has an internal cooldown of 2s.
OH axe’s spin2win
GS has a cleave effect, but it’s a maximum of 3 targets at once while OH axe is a 360 degree aoe with no target cap
I remember unlocking FGJ and shake it off and never removing them from my skill bar since. that’s basically how bad the rest if the utilities are
-0.1 second on weapon swap. Change fast hands to about 4 seconds instead of 5.
An incredibly short weapon swap when traited might just be the buff warrior needs to escape the predictability problem they have. I mean, I play other classes, when I see a warrior with greatsword I know exactly what he’s going to do.
So you want use to have a 3 second weapon swap cooldown?
That would require nerfing our other skills. And let’s be honest, that would hurt everyone who doesn’t constantly swap weapons. Which is pretty much everyone in PvE.
>3s weapon swap
>~8s Cooldowns
Yeah that’ll definitely be useful switching weapons only to autoattack
I was considering Orr because it was in the context of what was being pointed out. If we are talking about Higher level Fractals Of COURSE it is going to be challenging to stay alive there. It does not get harder for no reason? Warriors are not magic wielders Protection doesn’t fit their archetype or role. They are a very physical profession, these are the designers own words. Should we give Thieves Protection too? Maybe that is what the designers want. Maybe they wish for Warriors to have running mates to reach full potential if you run DPS. Seriously a Skilled DPS Warrior with another teammate by their side would be a major reason I wouldn’t go near a cap point if I’m solo. I’ve never seen a designer say Hey, in sPvP and tPvP guys we would like every profession to be able to dismantle the battlefield on their own. It is a team gameplay type after all.. And about not running a Greatsword because everyone else is. Dude Screw that, What a terrible thing to do having your own setup based off of caring about what everyone else is doing.
Lore is basically the dumbest reason you could possibly use to support your opinion. Take the spiked armour trait, “Gain 5 seconds of retaliation when struck by a critical hit. Cannot trigger more than once every 15 seconds.”. What, your armour is only spiked 1/3 of the time and only after being struck in a weak spot? Why can’t your armour be more defensive /some/ of the time then?
They are a very physical profession, these are the designers own words. Should we give Thieves Protection too? Maybe that is what the designers want.
1) Thieves have magical stealth and shadow stepping
2) Stealth in itself is their nearly profession-unique defensive ability where you can literally avoid all damage as compared to a 33% reduction of damage. And don’t give me that AoE faulty reasoning, you can still dodge in stealth if necessary.
Hey, in sPvP and tPvP guys we would like every profession to be able to dismantle the battlefield on their own.
The fact that you think warriors will be able to do this once they receive access to protection makes it quite obvious you dont know what the problem with warrior in pvp is.
And please stop assuming /other/ people play zerker glass cannon GS 100b warriors in order to refer to us condescendingly to make your points feel superior. It doesn’t work like that.
I’ve had this problem too, the most irritating of which is when the really loud echoing bang occurs even when I’m tabbed out with the setting “Mute when GW2 is in the background” checked.
I have absolutely no trouble with high level content at all. I don’t know where this thing about high level content being so hard and it being SO unsurvivable that they absolutely MUST have a boon to stay alive is coming from. Actually, I’m a little bummed when I head there because it is so easy to stay alive. This is suppose to be a level 80 zone and I can sustain a fight with 5 undead and never go below half health. I’m not bragging. This is the truth for anyone who is geared and plays skillfully and in a smart way and they know it. It is not an opinion.
If there is one thing that I cannot grasp, it is how this single boon is going to magically fix bad playing. So far you haven’t said anything that changes my mind about this.
>Considering Orr as endgame pve content
This basically explains everything
Besides you also need to look at this from a pvp perspective.
The whole reason I made this post was to state why I think Warriors do not deserve access to Protection on their own. I resonate with the points others made about why we do not need it. I did not contradict myself when I talked about trinities and then synergy between professions they are not the same thing. In a trinity system professions are required in team composition to do specific things. When there is synergy like the system we play in with Guild Wars 2, you have very different ways of doing things like supporting the group. Necros do not give Protection like a Guardian can, but they have access to a lot of blinding if they wish to be supportive. They have very different ways of doing a common goal.
I also pointed out that positioning matters just as much as dodging. A dodge roll won’t save you if you are standing in AoE the entire time. If you are doing that Protection probably won’t save you anyway even if it lasted the entire match. I have not seen any reason as to how giving us hard access to this boon would be considered balanced. It’s like saying give Warriors a hard skill that increases damage by 33%, obviously that will get trashed and called imbalanced, but it is the same concept. Why is it not pondered about how seriously this would affect balance?
This probably should have been the first post instead of what I posted earlier. It was not my intention to come off as abrasive toward people suggesting this idea.
I think you are extremely misguided. You seem to be under the impression that warrior+protection is overpowered because warrior innately has the highest armour and HP, when it’s very clear to anyone who pvps or does high end content that high armour+HP does not nearly measure up to a straight 33% damage reduction or any of the other forms of active defense.
You also seem to be under the impression that classes like guardians and elementalists receive protection because they innately do not have the same armour or HP and receive access to the boon to “make up for it”. If that were the case, then they wouldn’t be /sharing/ this boon across the whole party. Nor would they also receive any of the other multitude of defensive abilities.
Flurry, Combustive Shot, Skull Crack DO NOT lower your performance at all. But I do agree that adrenaline scarcity needs to be fixed.
Adrenaline or F1 Skills are like drugs. Its aggravating that you can’t use them enough.
>3 out of 9 skills
Ok, I’ll grant you Hammer’s burst which is also decent for the fact that it CCs
>4 out of 9 skills
Let’s talk about how evis’s damage is actually comparable to the autoattack’s, arcing slice is plain awful, kill shot/forceful shot are the most dodgeable skills in the game…….
But we are going offtopic, the thread is about the bonuses from the discipline line which really doesn’t line up with a large majority of the burst skills at all.
|: No class deserves protection more than the warrior. We have one of the worst active defense of any class, and that is what counts when it comes to defense, not base armour/health. Please think about how Endure Pain and….. Shield Stance…. (There isn’t much else) compare with Thief’s 60-70% stealth uptime, Guardian’s 100% protection uptime/shields/bubbles/walls, Elementalist protection/mistform/arcane shield/ALL of their heals etc etc
The warrior is supposed to be the most noob friendly class, the adrenaline bar is simple to understand, therefore it fits.
Simple to understand =/= 1-dimensional and largely useless. Tell me any other class that can safely completely ignore their profession mechanic because it sucks and using it actually decreases their performance.
I’m of the opinion that some of them are underpowered, and some of them are pretty blatantly overpowered.
Blast gets Fire/Water/Smoke
Projectile gets Fire/Light/Dark/Ice (They’re less impactful individually, but many classes can literally spam 20% chance finishers at a rate greater than once per second.)
Whirl gets Ice/Fire/Dark/Water/Light (Seriously, don’t underestimate whirl, it tends to spread strong conditions enmasse)
Leap… um… yeah… leap needs buffs.
Alot of people underestimate the effects. Whirl finisher in dark field can heal you quite a bit and ramp your damage up quite a bit as well. Blast has some great support options, especially fire, and the area stealth is literally murder if used right, especially with a thief.
They’re too costly to put resources specifically into proccing, but they ARE useful, and that’s where the issue lies.
Popping a long cooldown AoE, then using either a blast or whirl skill is simply too costly most of the time to be any sort of reliable. Even if some are downright overpowered when used right, getting the situation to use them is simply too difficult to make them a constant.
To everyone underestimating Whirl finishers. AoE +damage and healing from dark. AoE burning from fire. AoE chill, and the usual “Water field is overpowered”. The issue with whirls is they are rare and oftentimes too costly to use just to proc a finisher. In the situation where you’d use the whirl naturally, and proc the combo field as well, it’s a large buff.
You do realize that whirl does exactly the same effects as projectiles at a much more random, 1-shot chance right? At least projectiles are constantly fired off due to every ranged weapon being innately projectile finishers. (Also all the bolts don’t do damage at all, and the health you leech from leeching bolts is baaarely more than projectile leech if you looked up the values)
Anyway the point is that they’re nowhere near effective enough, especially when you compare them to blast finishers which have nearly the same distribution/cooldown