Guild Wars 2

Meglobob.8620:

There is no way Arena Net is going to let you go from 1-80 instantly with Revenant using Tomes of Knowledge.

Arena Net have said nothing official on this AFAIK.

But expect incoming blog explaining why it is a bad idea to let you all instantly lvl to 80 with Revenant. Just like you won’t have any skill points to use with Revenant anymore, Tomes of Knowledge will be changed in some way to stop you levelling Revenant to 80.

Why would you think there is no way? They are introducing only post level 80 content and a new class. Why would they do anything to prevent you from using that new class in the content they just created?

They wouldn’t, and they’ve made that very clear in a number of places and ways.

Eulolia.2467:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Unlikely? It’s practically guaranteed. Josh and team shouldn’t have been able to make SAB, they didn’t think it could work. They cheated the functionality has hard as they could to make it work. As such the major changes to many systems throughout the game are basically certain to have broken necessary functionality in SAB.

Here is the problem, though. If they tell us, SAB is bugged all to hell, then they have to deal with, “so when are you going to fix it.” Simple answer, they have more important things to do right now than that. But that answer isn’t good enough. They can’t tell us that. If they say in the future we’re right back to where we started. If they tell us nothing then we’re in that impasse. If they tell us the details then it’s not goo enough. Ultimately, not saying anything at all, regardless, still remains their best solution, where or not you like it.

I doubt it’s severely broken (unless you think adding things to gem store breaks content) but we’ll assume it is for the sake of addressing anet’s communication issue here. How is everybody posting “What on earth is happening with SAB? Hello? Anet? Is anyone there?” a better solution than “When are you going to fix it”? At least with the latter there is some vague relationship between customer and company at work; leaving customers to scream into the abyss probably isn’t the greatest form of customer service.

Oh, I’m not saying it’s good. I would rather they be more open. Personally I’d like them to just unleash Josh and let him tell us everything they don’t want us to know. Those were the best times.

I think this is a poor system they’re using, I just understand why they’re doing it.

If I could have my way they would not be going all in on HoT. They would have a cluster of small groups working on content like SAB and minor unrelated one time events that don’t matter but just something to do. Maybe a Moot, like the one you start the Norn in, or Meatoberfest in full bloom. Lore stuff where there can be special events, but when it’s gone it won’t matter. But if people really like it they can do again, like SAB. I suspect they could lose 21 people or so, three groups of seven, without doing irreparable damage to the expansion they haven’t even announced a release date on.

It took seven people to make SAB, let seven people make SAB functional again.

At the end of the SAS they said they would reveal an elite specialization at the next PoI. It seems reasonable to say this is identifying the Mesmer as that reveal.

Just a flesh wound.3589:

As of this time, you can use tomes to get to level 80. That will give you 400 hero points, enough for your skills and enough traits for “a few builds.” Getting 65 more hero points by doing hero challenged will get you the remainder needed.

They are removing the old skill challenges and putting in hero challenges. There is no indication they will put in the same number, and imo it’s likely to be only 65, the number needed to get full customization. If true, this means they will be widely spaced across the maps.

Hero challenges are meant to be high level content, so it’s likely they will only be in upper level zones like Orr and Frostgorge Sound. I hadn’t actually considered them taking out the ones that are already there, but I supposed they did practically say as much.

I wonder how they’ll handle places of power. Will they still be available to convert quartz, or will you have to go to those other zones in order to do that?

Michael Conrad.6704:

Kal, is this your opinion or is this an official Anet stance ?

thanks

During the SAS they specifically said that Tomes of Knowledge give you levels. There is literally no reason to believe that this would be different for Revenant. They have repeatedly explained that it’s just a class. It is treated like any other class. So I will go with yes, this is ANet’s official stance.

pdavis.8031:

I was thinking of using tomes to level my Revenant, but I think i’ll hold off and actually play them from level 1. Giving me a chance to learn the profession, and find out which traits work and which don’t.

But I do foresee a ton of lvl 80 Revenants from the start.

That’s how I’m going to play it too. I had my fill of auto leveling characters after I did that for something like five in a row.

Gotta say, I’m super psyched to finally have a big thread. I don’t start many threads, but they usually drop off very fast. Hopefully this one is actually accomplishing what they asked for in the SAS.

Well, the Mesmer special is not Druid, nor is it the Revenant special, so that seems like a fair guess.

Tomes level up characters. Revenants are characters. Tomes level up Revenants. Enough tomes level Revenants to 80. Seems pretty straight forward to me. There will be many many Revenants in HoT within the first, I’ll say hour, just because they’ll have to run them all the way there.

phys.7689:

Shylock.4653:

phys.7689:

the major difference is extra levels dont count, and no skill point scrolls.

phys.7689:

i think they could come up with something to appease older players, and possibly to help WvW players who are willing to spend more time in wvw than they would spend in pve,

Not only for WvW-Players although for PvP-Players, otherwise this changes will divide the player-base even further into the different game-modes. WvW-Players are forced to play PvE to be able to play WvW. PvP-Players are excluded from any other game-mode unless they are willing to spend hours and hours in PvE.

If you dont want to PVE, why go to PVE (for spvp crowd)

Anyhow, best solution is to give out teleport to skill point consumables. They had something with scarlet
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Twisted_Watchwork_Portal_Device

except it only goes to skill points.
give them out for gaining ranks in WvW, or an sPVP track.

you will still have to kill monsters/commune/may die, and may get some repeats, but ehh, i dont think that would be too much to ask.

If they could make such a thing it should be fairly simple to prevent it from sending you to a completed one.

Eulolia.2467:

Eulolia.2467:

“People will rage” – is there anything you can’t apply that to?

Arenanet had better cancel Heart of Thorns, just in case.

If only there were some kind of benevolent patrician on the forums who could deal with their concerns..

Guhracie.3419:

minbariguy.7504:

Perhaps we could call them…Moderators?

If only we had that kind of technology. Sigh…

whispers : Guys… you’re really messing up the straw man that people have so lovingly prepared.

I should really provide cliffsnotes for my posts: the first part was a bulletproof logical extreme of this “rage” straw man that has been posted about 50 times in this thread so far; the second part was a wry reference to lordkrall, it wasn’t about moderators.

Kal Spiro.9745:

Except all the work they have to do to make it work again from all the bugs introduced with the major changes they’ve made to game functionality in that time.

On this, though it has been stated many times already: If it’s been bugged to oblivion and that is their reason for Worlds 1 and 2 not being active (unlikely imo, not that much has changed), they could just post to let people know. [insert ~51st “but rage!” reply below]

Unlikely? It’s practically guaranteed. Josh and team shouldn’t have been able to make SAB, they didn’t think it could work. They cheated the functionality has hard as they could to make it work. As such the major changes to many systems throughout the game are basically certain to have broken necessary functionality in SAB.

Here is the problem, though. If they tell us, SAB is bugged all to hell, then they have to deal with, “so when are you going to fix it.” Simple answer, they have more important things to do right now than that. But that answer isn’t good enough. They can’t tell us that. If they say in the future we’re right back to where we started. If they tell us nothing then we’re in that impasse. If they tell us the details then it’s not goo enough. Ultimately, not saying anything at all, regardless, still remains their best solution, where or not you like it.

Celtic Lady.3729:

They wouldn’t need to DO anything to SAB. They can just put it up the way it was last time. No work required.

Except all the work they have to do to make it work again from all the bugs introduced with the major changes they’ve made to game functionality in that time.

CrashTestAuto.9108:

lordkrall.7241:

I think it is rather naive to assume that people would be content with a post explaining why SAB was not active.

They would see the post, rage about how that is the worst reason ever and then go back to business as usual in this thread.

That’s unsurprising, as you seem determined to think the worst of players.

However, your assumption is founded on the idea that all players are unreasonable, which is false. Many players are reasonable, and if given a good explanation, will accept it (although many will remain angry at the year and a half it took to give). If it isn’t a good explanation, then W1 and W2 shouldn’t be closed.

In what way is this not a realistic interpretation of exactly the way people are acting and have constantly acted about just about anything in this game.

Your assumption is predicated on the idea that reasonable players are the ones that respond the most and loudest. It isn’t. The nut jobs are the ones that come out of the woodwork to flip chairs when ANet speaks of anything short of, “This is happening, and it’s happening right now.”

I have no doubt we would see the usual suspects come in and say, “Thank you ANet for the information, I feel a lot better knowing you’re thinking about us.” That would take less than a page to devolve into, “Why does ANet lie about everything, they’re terrible people and they kicked my dog.” It takes nothing more than observation to come to this conclusion.

runeblade.7514:

Lord Kuru.3685:

LucosTheDutch.4819:

dietzero.3514:

It cannot be anything BUT a loss to build flecibility.

False.

The fact that Anet merges a lot of traits means that certain builds that required multiple very specific traits will now only need 1 grandmaster trait that has it all, meaning you have 2 extra traits up for grabs.

For example the meditation guardian: being a useful meditation guardian means you have to use up the entire Valor tree just to make your meditations shine. As a mediguard you are stuck to picking Meditation Mastery, Focused Mind and Monk’s focus to get the best out of your meditations, leaving you with little else to choose.
With the new system, I only have to pick the Meditation Mastery grandmaster trait at the end of the Valor tree and still have 2 other traits in the Valor tree up for grabs. So in this case and probably many other cases the new system adds flexibility.

Which is more flexible:

• Choose one of: red, white, blue.
• Choose one of : green, purple, black.
• Choose one of: orange, yellow, brown.

or:

• Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.

This is what OP is talking about.

Let say red, white, blue is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the weakest
Let say green, purple, black is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is stronger than the above.
Let say orange, yellow, brown is perfectly balanced for each other. But it is the strongest.

The answer to:

• Choose three out of: red, white, blue, green, purple, black, orange, yellow, brown.

is orange, yellow, brown.

Choose any other combo is just gimping yourself.

True, but then that was never an option, even in the old system. It wouldn’t be in this one, even if there was back tracking.

The Grandmasters are “build defining,” but some of the masters and even adepts are pretty strong, and some of the grandmasters don’t matter. That was true before, and it’s still true. If I’m running skirmishing and I don’t use sword or shortbow there is only one other option that, while good, might not be as worthwhile to me as some previous traits, and I’m in Skirmishing because at least two of the traits are already a necessity to me.

I mean that’s the whole point behind builds that don’t go all the way to grandmaster, or even to master.

I don’t really care, I’ve already made peace with the new system and rebuilt any of my four line characters to comply. I’m just pointing the realities of some complaints.

So I finally had the opportunity to watch the video while simultaneous looking through each of my characters and how they’re currently traited. The only character who I’m going to have to completely rebuild from scratch is my sword dagger/shortbow thief who is primarily about teleporting a lot.

Most of his traits are not even things anymore. It’s not that big a deal, though. For one I don’t actually play him, and two his build doesn’t seem very strong and so I should probably rework it anyway.

I’m also very worried about engineer. Primarily because I run flamethrower. I don’t care if it’s good or bad, I runs it and I like it. But most of my traits were not represented there either. More importantly there wasn’t a dedicated flamethrower kit trait at all. I understand that it’s not even finished, but all the other kits were represented, even if only to say this is where that one will go.

Hopefully that will get remedied. I’m also really looking forward to the elite for engineer, which might just change everything about how I envisioned this character anyway.

Is there a list of what is now baked into each class. Like it appears that Eagle Eye is now base Ranger. What else is automatic.

This seems pointless. Whether you level to 80 now, or you wait until the new system comes out it will amount to the same thing. A level 80 by virtue of being 80 should have enough points to do most things. And if you’re waiting until the new system lands to even start playing then you might as well just wait.

Lobo Dela Noche.5127:

Guhracie.3419:

and yes, I realize that some of you are wondering if I’ve been hacked, given my general stance on these things.

That’s funny I really did do a double take on your name lol.

I get what you are saying but I see no reason they can’t give my level 80s that have all skill and traits currently unlocked the full skills and every specialization bar filled. Then again if they really don’t want me to come back and really want me to quit posting here for ever, then they can make me have to grind out what already have. That would seal the deal, yall would never hear from me again.

Because the new system will involve tracks, just like masteries. Each skill group, and each trait line will be their own track. Each track is then unlocked one piece at a time with hero points (read skill points.) For those that already have everything unlocked it probably won’t be difficult to just unlock everything in the new system since you’ll probably get enough hero points allocated to you based on level and completed skill challenges. But for those that haven’t it will be very problematic to unlock things at random. It could very well break their system. So rather than take that chance that some characters end up legitimately broken because they can no longer progress properly, they are not unlocking anything.

Also, there isn’t a one to one correlation between traits in the current system and the new system. Should you unlock traits that never existed before in any form simply because you unlocked four other traits that don’t even exist anymore?

Grandfathering is not a thing that will happen. It just isn’t. If that means you’re taking your ball and going home, then that’s just how it’s going to have to be. Before you leave, can I have your stuff?

Iason Evan.3806:

Conncept.7638:

One of my favorite PvE builds and my absolute favorite PvP build is being flat out removed, with nothing remotely similar to replace it.

I run an elixir fused bomb build with clerics gear, light condition duration for immobilize and vulnerability stacks, and of course the full bomb suite of traits from the explosive tree. They’re going to remove Elixir Infused Bombs for a heal on blast finisher trait. How does that fill even remotely the same niche? And aren’t bombs already unpopular enough without have no trait for them?

I have honestly not been so saddened by any change to the game, not even when they took away my shroud bounce builds, I feel like I’ve just been punched in the gut, that clerics engi build is just so much fun and it’s the build I’ve had more compliments on in PvP than any other.

This build honestly sounds like the exact type of candidate that Roy was talking about when he said to leave the team feedback. They said none of what they posted was set in stone multiple times throughout the stream. There is a good chance your build could still make it in the release. Make a forum post about this.

That’s actually why I made this thread. In the hopes that they would all be in an easy to see location.

Kako.1930:

If it’s true that we’ll only be able to invest into 3 trait lines at once then my mesmer build is shot because I use 2/6/4/2/0.

Basically it means you have to choose between the first line or the fourth line. I have to do the same with my Main.

Tommyknocker.6089:

I use the minor traits deathly strength to boost the power of my necro in WvW zerging while adding the greater marks trait for the added radius and making marks unblockable.

I have played this exact build for over 2 years now and really enjoy the tankyness it provides. Now I have to choose between greater marks or deathly strength so I will choose neither and instead just be a 66006 necro clone. One without the other is far to much of a sacrifice and the strength I will get with the sprite line now FAR outweights the toughness I would receive in the death magic line.

You don’t get stats from lines anymore, so I’m not sure what you mean.

runeblade.7514:

Kal Spiro.9745:

I’m actually rather disappointed to learn that the fall damage traits are all still there. Considering they reduced the available adept traits by half that is taking up a huge amount of retail. I usually take that trait, but that’s because I was just dropping a couple points into a line I didn’t need for my build. I don’t have that option anymore in this system, so if I’m taking that line it’s because I want what is in that line. Chances are I don’t have room for fall damage.

I don’t want them removed.

I need them or I die in jumping puzzles.

I don’t want to see them gone, I just want them outside of traits.

My main, a Ranger and Thief
Elementalist
Thief
Guardian
Ranger
Engineer
Guardian
Warrior

I’ll have to wait until I can actually watch the AMA at my own pace and actually rewind to see, but I suspect my Mesmer and Necro builds that relied heavily on minor traits over major traits might be in trouble.

You might be right, though, since they did move and merge a lot of things it’s possible the stuff I used it just more streamlined now.

It looks like my main will actually be buffed.

All builds are now 6/6/6 with two lines unused. There are no more weird builds like for my Mesmer and Necro with odd numbered lines.

I’m actually rather disappointed to learn that the fall damage traits are all still there. Considering they reduced the available adept traits by half that is taking up a huge amount of retail. I usually take that trait, but that’s because I was just dropping a couple points into a line I didn’t need for my build. I don’t have that option anymore in this system, so if I’m taking that line it’s because I want what is in that line. Chances are I don’t have room for fall damage.

Your money disappears. Your skill points will be returned based on previously explained numeric. The reason they didn’t mention it on the AMA is because there is nothing to mention. You’re not being refunded the way you seem to think you ought to be.

I think most of my builds are salvageable, the only thing here that really kittened me off is that I apparently have to choose, now, between a fast warrior and being able to rally.

Gibson.4036:

Kal Spiro.9745:

“Stop complaining because your complaints are as worthwhile as a fart in a hurricane. Also you don’t understand the processes by which this change is happening, and your “demands” won’t work and won’t happen. Regardless of how good anything is, what you have to say won’t change anything."

No worthwhile company takes this stance.

Any company worth anything prefers a complaining customer to one who quietly stops being a customer.

If you don’t like people complaining, why are you here reading and responding?

It isn’t the complaints that bother me, it is the quality of the complaints and the unreasonable demands accompany those complaints. I will simply assume you haven’t followed what has been going on, and I’m not going to catch you up.

nerovergil.5408:

Kal Spiro.9745:

Well this is all a lot of nonsense.

What exactly is the point of your huge list of class names. Class names don’t mean anything without a thorough explanation. How are those classes different than the ones that already exist? What can they do? What weapons can they use? What are their class mechanics? They’re just names. That doesn’t explain anything.

Your assertion that PvP is endgame is just that, YOUR assertion. Considering that you can do PvP at level 2 I would have to disagree very strongly. PvP is whenever you want to do it.

Endgame is endgame and a very large subset of players don’t want anything to do with PvP. Having the game open world PvP also destroys the entire concept and community of the game. The whole point of the game is that when you see another person you’re happy, or at least not upset, that they’re there. You don’t have to worry about them taking your crafting node, or stealing your kills, or interfering with you. The worse thing they can do to you is not assist. Otherwise they’re helping to complete objectives.

That’s how the game is meant to be played, not your weird skewed version of it.

If you regularly play other mmo’s, you will get the idea what class i mean. Its not just name. ill explain the class some other time.

So you play mmorpg like gw2 with lore like you are the hero of tyria, but……….u dont want to accept the challenge of pvp? the thrill the excitement, not just generic AI that a 9 years old can beat. Spamming 11111111111111111111

The fun is when u meet other player, they can be your friend or your rival. Like real hero. Son Goku defeat Vegeta but then they become allies. Then he even travel to Namek to defeat mighty Frieza and turn SSJ1

The world of pvp has endless possibilities. The excitement like a real adventure!!!!!! as you call your self ADVENTURER!!!!

You don’t seem to understand this game, nor how it works. I think you’re doing it wrong.

Ohoni.6057:

They don’t have to do a single thing. I’ve pretty much had it with your whole attitude

Ditto, just so you know.

They’re giving you the points you’ve earned based on the system they’re implementing. There is absolutely no reason, your indignation not withstanding, for them to do anything more than that.

Because they are the ones changing the system. It’s no longer going to be how it currently is, and how it currently is works fine for me. If they are making the choice to change the current system, it is on them to compensate players for the fallout. This is not rocket science. Whenever these discussions take place, you seem to take the stance “ANet can do whatever they want and it’s automatically great just by virtue of being the thing they want to do.” Well maybe that works for you, and that’s great, but just accept as fact that it does not work for everybody, and that these people are no less entitled to their stance on the issue than you are to yours. You are not right, you just have your own position on things that is not inherently stronger than anyone else’s. If ANet does not have to do anything to keep you happy, then that’s fine, but if they do take away skills under the new system, then to keep me happy they have to also give them back.

It’s their system, and their game. You have no rights. You are not entitled to anything. You don’t actually deserve anything. You, sir, are wrong.

My stance is not that this is great. I’m highly dubious of whether this will even be good. But I will live with it because I know without a doubt that it doesn’t matter if I like it or not. I know that they don’t care if I stop playing or not. I probably won’t stop playing. I will adapt to the new normal because that is how it works.

If you actually knew me you’d know that I’m still griping about minor things that no one even cares about anymore because I still don’t like the new system. What I’m saying is not, “Stop complaining because everything is sparkles and rainbows.” I’m saying, "Stop complaining because your complaints are as worthwhile as a fart in a hurricane. Also you don’t understand the processes by which this change is happening, and your “demands” won’t work and won’t happen. Regardless of how good anything is, what you have to say won’t change anything."

I’m right because I’m talking about facts. How things actually work and will work. I’m not entitled to jack, nor squat. I’m not getting what I want, I’m telling you how it’s going to be. There is a world of difference.

Q: Will the fall damage trait be removed and implemented into each class as a basic class feature?

Ohoni.6057:

If you do not then too bad, so sad, you need to go get more points to get back to your previous status.

But that is NOT GOOD ENOUGH. If I have all the points I need right now to have all the skills I want, and then after HoT I no longer have all the points I need to have all the skills I want, then they have taken something away that I previously had, and don’t you dare try to argue otherwise. They have resulted in a net downgrade of my playing experience, and basic customer relations dictates that when you cause a net customer loss for your own purposes, no matter how necessary, you compensate them for that negative experience.

In the new system you will have a mastery type line for skill groups and for trait lines. You will have to spend hero points (read skill points) on each line to get each skill and trait in a linear fashion. If you use skill X from the signet line you will have to work through the signet line until you get to skill X, buying each skill before skill X whether you want it or not. This is the specific reason why unlocking the skills you already have might break their system. I would not put it past ANet to design this is such a way that if you already have skill X unlocked you won’t be able to get to skill Y and Z after you unlock skill W.

And if this is true, then they will have to give all existing level 80s ALL the Hero Points, enough to unlock every tree other than the new one, whether they currently have them all or not. They have to grandfather players in, that is not optional, however they have to do it.

They don’t have to do a single thing. I’ve pretty much had it with your whole attitude. I’m throwing the entitled card. You sir are entirely too entitled. They’re giving you the points you’ve earned based on the system they’re implementing. There is absolutely no reason, your indignation not withstanding, for them to do anything more than that.

Your build is probably going to be trashed as of the new system anyway, so it really doesn’t even matter. Deal with it, or go away. Demanding that they give you your heart’s desire just because you can’t live with the changes they are making to THEIR game doesn’t earn you anything.

arkealia.2713:

They’re removing Skill Points. What about all those MF recipes that need mats you can only get with skillpoints?

You can never get those mats again, ever. They’re removing everything from the game that involved that resource. That includes legendaries, despite making a new system that technically will make it easier, or at least more reliable to get a legendary.

Or, more likely, they will change the process by which those mats are acquired.

Donari.5237:

I am sure they will grandfather in all the completed skill challenges for each alt. They sort of have to, short of resetting all the challenges for everyone (cue epic firestorm).

What’s not clear to me is whether having skills and traits unlocked by other means (vendor purchase, skill scroll use) will be grandfathered in. I’m cool with a trait reset — one is inevitable as we simply won’t have the same system or trait distribution — so long as I have as full access to my traits as before, ie I get as many points to spend as will get me equivalent trait/skill unlock completion.

The answer is no. This is why I’m saying they won’t be grandfathering anyone in. If you want to take their conversion of earned points as grandfathering, then fine, but that’s not grandfathering.

Grandfathering is saying, you already have this skill and trait, so even though you need to go through this process to get them in the new system you can just have them remain unlocked.

That’s not how it’s going to work, it can’t work that way because this could break the system on them.

In the new system you will have a mastery type line for skill groups and for trait lines. You will have to spend hero points (read skill points) on each line to get each skill and trait in a linear fashion. If you use skill X from the signet line you will have to work through the signet line until you get to skill X, buying each skill before skill X whether you want it or not. This is the specific reason why unlocking the skills you already have might break their system. I would not put it past ANet to design this is such a way that if you already have skill X unlocked you won’t be able to get to skill Y and Z after you unlock skill W.

So they’re going to give you only the skill points you’ve unlocked from leveling to whatever level you are based on the current system, and however many skill challenges you’ve completed. From there you need to work through all the mastery lines to unlock whatever it is you can get.

If you’re level 80 and you’ve completed every skill challenge you can unlock everything, period.

RodrigoEu.6701:

Will we still be able to select adept traits in the master or grandmaster trait slots?

No, you only need to look at the picture to see exactly how that’s going to work. You get three clusters of three traits. Rather than choosing from a drop down you just have the three options at that spot and nothing else.

TheFantasticGman.9451:

Ayrilana.1396:

So much for having maxed out Revenants within minutes of the expansion going live.

Maxed out everything? No. Maxed LvL 80? Yes.

Ohoni.6057:

I will flip the kitten table if they don’t grandfather existing characters into the new system.

Same here. I ain’t doing that again.

Again, they can’t grandfather you in. The best they can do is give you all the points you would have earned under the new system and let you spend them just like anyone else. If you have enough points to buy everything you need for your builds then you’re good to go. If you do not then too bad, so sad, you need to go get more points to get back to your previous status.

Well this is all a lot of nonsense.

What exactly is the point of your huge list of class names. Class names don’t mean anything without a thorough explanation. How are those classes different than the ones that already exist? What can they do? What weapons can they use? What are their class mechanics? They’re just names. That doesn’t explain anything.

Your assertion that PvP is endgame is just that, YOUR assertion. Considering that you can do PvP at level 2 I would have to disagree very strongly. PvP is whenever you want to do it.

Endgame is endgame and a very large subset of players don’t want anything to do with PvP. Having the game open world PvP also destroys the entire concept and community of the game. The whole point of the game is that when you see another person you’re happy, or at least not upset, that they’re there. You don’t have to worry about them taking your crafting node, or stealing your kills, or interfering with you. The worse thing they can do to you is not assist. Otherwise they’re helping to complete objectives.

That’s how the game is meant to be played, not your weird skewed version of it.

My hope is that each skill point will be converted into a bag that will randomly drop a forge specific mat. So the more skill points you have, the more chances you’ll have to get something good, like clovers. It’s probably just wishful thinking though.

Yes

Ohoni.6057:

Ok, so if they are just skill challenges then it looks like they’ll have to plan on just unlocking all skill challenges on existing characters whether you’ve done them on that character or not, because the alternative would not be pleasant.

Why would they do that? If you want to make sure you have enough points come the new system, go do it. They’ve given you ample time to prepare. It’s not their problem if you don’t.

It’s also not their problem if you lose access to anything or everything about your character because the new system strips you down. That is just how it goes.

Ohoni.6057:

Then flip that kitten, because they can’t grandfather anyone. The new system is a complete redesign from the ground up. No part of the original/current system will remain in the new system. There is nothing to be grandfathered into.

No, they can grandfather people if they like, just like they did with the previous trait overhaul (where I had a level 30 character when the change was made, and he retained all traits auto-unlocked even though he hadn’t earned most of them).

What I fully expect, and will be immensely cross to find out otherwise, is that every level 80 character you have before HoT launches will enter HoT with ALL pre-existing traits and skills unlocked, and with only the new Spec line to go.

Further, every sub-80 character, who currently only has a portion of their skills unlocked, should either A: at least retain every skill they already have unlocked, even if they are placed higher up in some progression stack than abilities they have not yet unlocked OR B: they also have all skills automatically unlocked, and it’s only completely rerolled characters that have to participate in this new system.

ANet should NOT remove ANY abilities that a player has already unlocked under any circumstances.

No actually they can’t. The previous overhaul didn’t change how the system functioned it only changed how those traits were acquired and when they unlocked. The new system will change every single aspect of the system. When and how traits are unlocked, how they are implemented, where they are implemented, what the traits even are. Every single thing will be redone from scratch. Therefore there is nothing to grandfather in.

The old system was grandfathered into the current system in the same way that old armor skins were grandfathered into the wardrobe system. You already have it? Good, keep it.

This is not the same thing. Also, yes, they have pointed it out in several places in both of the blogs that came out today that Skill Points = Hero Points. Skill Challenges = Hero Challenges. With the new system we won’t be able to gain skill points after level 80.

The number of skill points you have after the transition will equal (# of skill points acquired up to character level) + (# of skill challenges completed on character) All skill points in excess of that number will be converted into Mystic Forge materials.

If that number does not equal the amount of points you need to unlock all your stuff, in the new system, you can’t have everything you had in the current system until you get more points. Period.

No grandfathering.

Ariamaki.1703:

Given that there’s no indication of any of this information in the game itself, or the launcher, how is it fair to players to make it impossible to access so much of this content? I decided to work on some Personal Story progress today on a whim, and found out after my session that I have permanently locked myself out of Greatest Fear and other quests through no fault of my own, with no warning. This information should have been in the patcher since the day this was announced, and there should be a warning in-game when starting the respective quests. I’m… both angry and disappointed at this failure on the part of the developers. I hope there will be some form of reparations, and some attempt to fix this by way of making the quests available at a future date.

As a suggestion, other games such as The Secret World have fixed this kind of problem by producing duplicates of their story quests which are repeatable and replayable, made available as soon as the respective quests were done for the first time. It wouldn’t be enough to make up for the loss of rewards and the show of bad developer judgement, but it would be something.

This is an incredibly unreasonable expectation. Pretty much all of it. I don’t know what you think is involved in implementing this sort of thing, but it’s more, a lot more.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

Kal Spiro.9745:

PookieDaWombat.6209:

So that also means they’ve changed direction on the whole “new ways to gain skill points after level 80” thing. OK, fair enough.

Would still like Anet to chime in on gold spent by players on this current system and if we are seeing this new one roled to core before or with HoT.

In the same way that gold spent by players to unlock trait ranks in the old system was not refunded when they made those unlock automatically, gold spent on traits in the current system will not be refunded in the new system.

You don’t need ANet to chime in, that is a fact of life right there.

Except for one small difference: The amount of gold many players spent in the new system FAR outstrips the gold spent prior to that.

Now, that being said, I already know Anet will simply be silent on this front until a larger protion of the player base react to the changes, and that won’t happen until it all goes live. And i agree with you it will be a fact of life. Just wondering if Anet has any kind of plan in place to deal with the inevitable or if they will do as someone else suggested elsewhere and try to handle it as they did with the multiple legendary weapons and the wardrobe issue.

Doesn’t matter. That is not actually a difference. They really don’t care. That was the system, and this is the new system. They’re not going to refund anyone for anything because too bad.

Gold is an infinitely available resource. They want that infinitely available resource to dry up as much and as often as possible. Therefore having you lose a ton of gold because of traits you bought is a great idea to them.

The biggest problem with this system appears to be the lack of a continuing gold sink.

phys.7689:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

phys.7689:

Just a flesh wound.3589:

Our chars will still get the new Hero points through leveling, the way we got them before there were skill point scrolls.

“Hero Points will be replacing Skill Points, and will be earned by leveling up”

you wont get any past 80 though, or they wouldnt be limited.

You’ll get one each time you level up as per this article.
http://www.tentonhammer.com/news/guild-wars-2/guild-wars-2-heart-thorns-specializations-and-jon-peters-qa

you dont level up anymore past 80. remember the article you linked on masteries? after 80 your level up is gone and replaced with masteries, which have different exp requirements, and arent considered to be level ups.

Yeah, I don’t think they can be any clearer on this point. You do not get skill points after 80. They have stated this explicitely. You get mastery tracks and that is all. If you’re not filling mastery tracks you’re not getting xp and you’re not leveling anything.

If you have unlocked every single skill, but haven’t unlocked all the skill points, you probably won’t have enough to do that again. If you’ve only unlocked the handful of skill points you need and have completed a fair selection of skill points there is a good chance you will be able to recreate that specific build.

Ohoni.6057:

I will flip the kitten table if they don’t grandfather existing characters into the new system. I have nine level 80s at this point, and while one of them has map completion, the others are really a half-fast mix of various achievements, and I really have ZERO interest in taking them all on a scavenger hunt all over Tyria just to get them back to where they are today, while at the same time trying to level my Revenant and max out 1-2 mains in Maguuma Masteries. Ain’t nobody got time for that.

Then flip that kitten, because they can’t grandfather anyone. The new system is a complete redesign from the ground up. No part of the original/current system will remain in the new system. There is nothing to be grandfathered into.

Kultakorppi.4769:

I…really don’t see what’s the point in only allowing us to use 3 trait trees at the time and removing some of the traits. Anet is obsessed with making everything “simpler” and it’s taking all the fun out of the game for me.

Says someone who hasn’t used the system, and therefore doesn’t know whether it’s worthy or not.

It probably isn’t better. Simpler is almost never better, just simpler. But still, wait until you’ve actually used it to proclaim how much worse it is.

Here is my proposal. Take seven people. It only took seven people to make the original SAB. Have those seven people fix whatever bugs have been introduced into SAB since it was last around. Do their best. It doesn’t need to be perfect, just playable. Make SAB function like the Queens Pavilion and the special Airship. You can only get in if you have a pass. In this case the pass is a coin. If you happen to have coins they’ll get you in as a one off. If you have an ICC you have permanent access.

There is no new content, but the only ones who can get in are the hard core fanatics who won’t care. People might complain that they can’t get an ICC, but at least the people who have one won’t be frothing about it all the time either.

They can spare seven people.

PookieDaWombat.6209:

So that also means they’ve changed direction on the whole “new ways to gain skill points after level 80” thing. OK, fair enough.

Would still like Anet to chime in on gold spent by players on this current system and if we are seeing this new one roled to core before or with HoT.

In the same way that gold spent by players to unlock trait ranks in the old system was not refunded when they made those unlock automatically, gold spent on traits in the current system will not be refunded in the new system.

You don’t need ANet to chime in, that is a fact of life right there.

No refunds, even if the trait you bought doesn’t exist anymore.