Guild Wars 2

I recall, concerning GW1, it was stated that something like Warriors and rangers didn’t use magic. I can’t remember the source but yeah. I think it was something like “warriors and rangers don’t have magic, but they have shouts.”

I heard that in Sea of Sorrow’s there is an instance where a hammer wielding warrior slammed his weapon into the ground and caused actual shockwaves to hit another person. That would be an example perhaps of “passively enhanced magic”

Can you play as a monk? No. But monks exist ingame in NPC form.

thewaterguy.4796:

If you are looking for an authenticity standpoint as far as the lore goes well being a charr magic user is already unusual, not impossible or unheard of by any means but usually charr (at least the ones we play as) tend to be not as trusting of magic as other races, with that said, I would say blood or ash would make the most sense since, both are more accepting of magic as long as it can serve a purpose, blood employ’s guardians to help support in battle and ash legion has mesmer magic in order to help with covert operations, Iron legion would definitely be less likely, not impossible for a revenant to be part of iron legion, but it would be seen as more taboo since iron legion relies on gadgets and machines of war and don’t tend to use magic

Actually, you see guardians of Iron or Blood legion both.

They don’t blindly trust or like magic, but Charr are pragmatic. They aren’t going to simply stop using it widely when it has very useful bonuses.

I’d say the scholar side would fit Iron legion’s mindset at times, though the drawing power from past heroes directly (in a sense) wouldn’t fit as well.

Honestly, all legions would use them, but I’d agree perhaps that Ash might have more then the other two.

Riot Inducer.8964:

Well I think Turai Ossa’s impressive stature has been presented consistently enough that it’s fair to say he qualifies as a physically unique character and not just presented larger for gameplay mechanics.

Turai is one I’d grant, though I’d love to hear why and if anything mentions him being so huge.

But yeah, he appears pretty darn big (but not Norn big) in almost every appearance we see of him, including when we play as him in GW1.

Wildkitten.3872:

@ Kalavier

No one said anything about JOUSTING armor. The link I provided, had you cared to read it, was about plate armor worn on the battlefield. It was heavy, over 100 pounds. You and others try to make it sound as if that is insignificant to agility but it isn’t.

And given the choice of full metal plate or a tee and shorts facing a bear, give me the tee and shorts any day. I would need agility to run and the plate armor would not protect against those claws and teeth given the force a bear can bite with. One of the ways plate armor protected someone was range attacks, primarily arrows, could be deflected from the curve surface, something that is negated at close range.

Did you even watch the video I linked? Or the article talking about many ‘myths’ of plate armor?

“Specialized jousting armour produced in the late 15th to 16th century was heavier, and could weigh as much kitten kg (100 pounds), as it was not intended for free combat, it did not need to permit free movement, the only limiting factor being the maximum weight that could be carried by a warhorse of the period.”

Jousting armor ^ Regular plate armor V

“A complete suit of plate armour made from well-tempered steel would weigh around 15–25 kg(33-55 pounds).² The wearer remained highly agile and could jump, run and otherwise move freely as the weight of the armor was spread evenly throughout the body. The armour was articulated and covered a man’s entire body completely from neck to toe. In the 15th and 16th centuries, large bodies of men-at-arms numbering thousands or even more than ten thousand men (as many as 60% of an army) were fighting on foot wearing full plate next to archers and crossbowmen. "
“Plate armour was virtually invulnerable to sword slashes. It also protected the wearer well against spear or pike thrusts and provided decent defense against blunt trauma.

The evolution of plate armour also triggered developments in the design of offensive weapons. While this armour was effective against cuts or blows, their weak points could be exploited by long tapered swords or other weapons designed for the purpose, such as pollaxes and halberds. The effect of arrows and bolts is still a point of contention in regards to plate armour. Longbows and crossbows could also pierce plate armour up to ranges of 200 metres (660 ft) with a lucky shot"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plate_armour#Late_Middle_Ages

I’m sorry, but where is this proof that plate armor is SO RESTRICTIVE?

Fairly sure the bear would have more trouble getting through plate armor then outrunning and killing you in your t-shirt and jeans. Considering how searching in google for “Can a human outrun a bear.” instantly fills first page with “DON’T TRY IT, YOU WILL FAIL.”

There are cases where mobility is legitly a good thing to have over protection. And others where that armor can help more then being agile.

Oreithyia.3064:

I (female) tested wearing historical fullplate armor and doing a summersault and standing up afterwards or avoiding a sword blow was totally possible. You can run with it, but it is of course a bit more tiring than without.
Yes it is a bit more difficult to do a dodge role than when you do it in a gymsuit, but it is not impossible…especially if we think of 1. the Lady Commander is probably a very muscular person, because she wouldn’t be able to safe the world as couch potato and 2. in my head a high military person like a commander obviously wears a custom-made armor that fits their body measurments.

I remember a discussion wanting more variaty in body builds for players (I think some edged toward the unfit/larger side)… I simply responded that while such options are okay, most likely all adventurers will be fit in even a basic sense. You don’t get to run and jump and fight all the time while being overweight. :P

Yes the heat in Dry Tops and Silverwaste would be a problem, but a relatively pale person like Kasmeer also should look like a lobster after around 1 hour there. because of the sun. A full covering outfit in a dark, light, tight-woven fabric would probably be the best for these zones. So no reason for a character to run around naked.

Another reason. Pockets. :P

the problem I have with a invisible magic amor is that while you can see the skin, the skin is probably totally insensible from a taktile point of view.
You can easy get out of a plate amor, but i think, as warrior without magic abilities, finding someone to enchant your skin for you every morning is kind of annoying and impractical. it more likely that this is a permanent entchantment, which means this person doesn’t feel it when you hug them or carress their arm or something.
I don’t know…it kind of sad and a bit unsettling for me and doesn’t sound sexy at all.
Another posibility would be that the clothing itself is entchanted and so the commander can atleast feel something when they go to sleep after a long dragon slaying day. but then it’s the question, why the guys still all wear some kind of “skirt” to protect their crotch and butt and no G-string.

I’d wager armor with magical enchantments have it on all the time.

I personally see the armor types as being how enchanted/modified it is (excluding added runes). Exotic armor simply have more bonuses fused on.

So you are quitting the game forever because of a single Tequatl fight that you got disconnected from…

Fights which are often organized and set up by various guilds with high success rates at least before.

And if you would rather wear that when facing something with huge teeth and claws, then you would be the among the first to die, because no amount of armor would protect you. Might as well wrap yourself in Reynolds aluminum foil.

Would you rather face down a charging, kittened off Grizzly bear wearing a t-shirt and pants, or full plate armor?

Substance E.4852:

Hell, you guys can have realism. In exchange:
-You now have to move at 1/2 the speed of a character in any other armor weight.
-Skills requiring extreme movement like 100blades are now verboten.
-Jump height is reduced.
-Dodge rolling will cause you to immediately enter a state of permanent knockdown that can only be cured by an ally lifting you up.
-Dry Top, Silverwastes, any Maguma zone, and Mount Maelstrom (volcano specifically) will now give a unique “heat stroke” condition that will rapidly drain HP until you leave the area.
-Entering any body of water will cause you to immediately sink to the bottom.

People want to play junior historians and cry “unrealistic design” but are totally fine with everything else not working normally.

http://rspb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/early/2011/07/15/rspb.2011.0816

“The significant energetic cost of moving in armour is likely to have had a profound limitation on soldiers’ performance, and may have contributed to the outcome of certain battles. For example, during the Battle of Agincourt (1415), heavily armoured French knights advanced towards the English men-at-arms across terrain made extremely muddy from recent ploughing, over-night rain and an earlier French cavalry charge. Exhaustion of the French knights is cited as a contributing factor to their demise at the hands of the more lightly armoured English archers ¹⁸.”

Actually, plate armor doesn’t do all of that kitten. See my links and video.

Also, that battle, the knights got defeated because their allies TRAMPLED them into the heavy mud in the charge, and frankly if you expect anybody to quickly move and be agile in heavy mud terrain… See my links in last post.

edit: Double post because it seems to cut off my post for some reason…

Zok.4956:

Red Queen.7915:

The “it’s fantasy so realism would be weird” argument seems to always miss the point. If we take this logic, we could all run around naked because Arcane Shield, yay!

Why not. If Kasmeer can do that, we all can.

• Marjory Delaqua: How’d you get out of all that without a single smudge or tear on your dress?
• Kasmeer Meade: It’s not a dress. It’s an illusion. You think I’d take my best dress into a place like that?
• Marjory Delaqua: An illusion? You mean you’re…
• Kasmeer Meade: Naked. Is that a problem?
• Marjory Delaqua: Noooo. Not a problem.

While it was funny little detail that is very easy to see a Mesmer doing, I doubt Kasmeer does it all the time. Even then, in the battle for LA, Marjory makes a comment about conjuring up an Illusinary cloak to keep warm, and IIRC, Kasmeer states it doesn’t work that way.

So while she was naked, she didn’t have the protection her normal outfit would have given her (If any. Being light armor probably more through enchantments on the cloth then durability).

Wildkitten.3872:

Have you ever seen someone in actual full plate knights armor because the fact you say they were fairly mobile suggests not. The exact opposite was true. They were very much immobile, slow, lumbering, the opposite of agile.

Enough said. Now, JOUSTING ARMOR was heavy as hell, cumbersome, and made the knight quite immobile for the most part but that was to prevent any injuries on the tournament fields.

Full plate armor was not heavy or encumbering. If it was so bad that being knocked over meant you couldn’t get up without help, the armor would NOT HAVE BEEN USED so widely. Hell, For a strong person, full plate that is fitted correctly is easier to wear then modern infantry full combat gear as I’ve read.

http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/aams/hd_aams.htm#weight_b

Flying debris would be the least of your worries if you were to face something like Claw of Jormag. You could be inside 1 inch thick metal armor and you would be one shot, and die quicker then someone who wasn’t so weighted down and had their joints free.

Fun Fact, Full plate armor was specifically designed and fitted so that the joints were still flexible and able to move (see above video) If a dragon steps on you, you are dead regardless. and I doubt your ‘extra’ mobility from wearing cloth, leather, light chainmail (or simply being naked) would help any compared to something as agile as Tequatl the sunless or the Claw of Jormag.

This is where I take issue with this whole debate. For a long time in MMO’s people screamed “give us a choice” and here came GW2 and in a way gave a choice. I say in a way, cause precious little armor in GW2 can truthfully be referred to as ‘skimpy’ and the full coverage armors dominate the fashion landscape yet people still complain about the skimpy armor demanding that NO ONE have the choice, thus showing that people who hate more revealing armor really wish to dictate for everyone.

I’m actually fine with revealing armor, I’ve explicitly stated I don’t mind gladiator armor at all, or armors which are themed toward groups/styles that don’t usually have full coverage gear. Pirates, Gladiators, stereotype babarians, etc. Norn revealing armor I’m not bugged by for the most part because of the culture and toughness.

I’m bugged when somebody states in lore/character that their gladiator style armor is as protective as my seraph’s full plate.

As for your comments about the Phalanx armor, thank goodness it doesn’t look like male armor. If you went by the icon and didn’t use the dressing room feature before you purchased it, then that frankly is your own fault. GW2 is one of the few games that even give some what honest representations of armor and weapons in their icons.

I haven’t bought it. Infact it’s the thing that keeps me FROM buying it as I have no male heavy armor users ATM.

CureForLiving.5360:

Vilenia.3081:

Size has always mattered for WoW. Every important character from their universe is abnormally big.

That was actually a mechanical change, in raids it’s kinda hard to see a regular sized character. In fact ANet is doing the same with the new Hylek races in HoT.

Yeah, a good example is Scarlet, Molten firestorm, and molten berserker.

All three got ‘raid boss sized’. No Charr is THAT huge, nor any Dredge would be the same size to fit into that suit. Meanwhile in the Aetherblade path, we see an Asura in the firestorm suit and she is normal size for an asura.

I recall Scarlet being bumped up in size, but I forget how much of that was the hologram.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

I don’t know. With as little as was there to begin with, the Temple of the Ages is actually one of the most intact landmarks from GW1. It is a shame that there aren’t any priests tending it anymore, but the new mystery of the leaking Underworld isn’t a bad trade off.

Yeah, I mean, even in GW1 you could factually call it a ruin.

Mem no Fushia.7604:

About case where instantly beings become icebrood like contact with crystal that land on your head that instead of dead you rise as icebrood: fear of death, close to it, you start admire/respect power that is gonna kill you, therefore borns desire to gain power, Jormag see weaves in Mists of those who desire for power and grants its to them.

Imo it is always and only case of willing for power, that strong will can born in 0,0001s before death.

Talking, show-offs, challenges, hierarchy, lust, desire, moments of helplessness, being on verge of die are all able to create willing for power even if acquired in different way/length of time.

So if you gonna die while fighting with jormag’s power don’t be tempted by his power and don’ desire it, focus on your true power that lies inside you. <Jora’ way imo, she didn’t want depending on power of anoyne besides her own, which I received when met her>

I’d say a simpler description could be the knowledge of “If I were stronger, I wouldn’t be about to die.”

The question is does the person grasp onto the power being offered by Jormag, or refuse it? We’ve seen ‘forced’ corruptions,The female Koda, the voice of the Honor of the Waves (IIRC, that was her title. The Claw of Koda survives I think). But we basically walk into the last moments before icebrood, so we don’t see what the Son of Svanir/partial icebrood did to her.

kurfu.5623:

OMG, the people getting the diapers in a wad over impractical armor in this thread are hilarious!

Here’s a Pro-Tip – if you don’t like an armor set, don’t use it.

Play the way you want, and stop worrying about how other people play.

While true, the topic of the thread is to discuss ABOUT the designs.

MissSinfully.2478:

I’m surprised only a few people mentioned Phalanx, but I’m glad someone did. Skirt’s a little skimpy, but I love the blend of heavy and cloth aspects- it doesn’t offend my delicate fashion sensibilities as a female.

My issue with the female version is kinda the leg parts of it (not so much the skirt, but the actual leggings and the straps). But even that isn’t a major issue with me.

My TRUE problem with Phalanx is how if you put the male and female versions side by side, they don’t even look like the same set in any way. And the icons show/point toward the male version so it’s a case of “Inventory icon shows this full plate helm… I got something that doesn’t even look like it.” :P

Wildkitten.3872:

As for your combat comment, the full body covering armor is what is unrealistic. For one thing trying to bring a realism argument into a fantasy game is idiotic at best, but even in real life, you have armies than even in the 20th century would fight nude in certain circumstances because of the need for agility and mobility. If you want to talk realism, then skimpy armor would be a lot more realistic when fighting fantasy creatures because if you could face a dragon, someone in a bikini will survive longer than someone wearing full metal plate.

Knights in full plate armor were fairly mobile, and their armor actually weighed less then modern infantry full combat gear (IIRC).

If somebody was facing a dragon in a bikini, then they’ll die in a single hit. However somebody in full plate armor won’t have to worry about debris slicing their skin. If enchanted, even more protection is granted.

The “Agility and mobility” line comes into play is if the enemy’s attacks can and WILL one shot kill you from the start, and thus you focus on dodging more then ‘tanking’ the blows.

CETheLucid.3964:

Within Jormag’s ranks, I’d guess that the Svanir are unique to him with regards to the norn and we don’t really know why other than the events from GW1 where Svanir was corrupted and his sister Jora resisted.

It cost her a lot, but she retained her life and sanity against Jormag’s power.

Females just don’t get turned into minions. We don’t really know why exactly. If they’re captured alive VS killed, in all likelihood they’re probably sacrificed, tortured, etc… then killed.

You’re right, the Svanir cult aren’t friendly to women, akin to the Flame Legion.

Whatever it is, female norn don’t simply become minions. We can assume Jormag deals with norn differently than he does other races we know about based on that.

It probably had something to do going back to Svanir himself and his sister Jora.

Some unique corruption or special rank he was going to inflict on them as a pair, but Jora “broke” it.

As noted, Jormag prefers for you to willingly join(or his corruption works fastest on those that do). The only difference between the two is Jora rejected easy power, while Svanir embraced it.

It’s just that sons of Svanir kill female norn who try to join or become icebrood. Though amusingly enough, one in Hoelbrek actually tried convincing my female norn to follow dragon. I guess he’s a ‘moderate’ one :P

Dev’s said Jormag basically doesn’t give a care about what the Sons of Svanir do in the end.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

I guess not, someplace by the Shadow Behemoth there is a POI for the Temple of Ages. Incorrectly named I guess?

It looks like kitten lol

If you played GW1, it was a ruin then. Basically the five statues, with some stone railings and walkways.

Before GW1 it was an actual temple, and probably quite nice.

I don’t see why they’d have to/should go with some mystical reason for the female norn to be more resistant or anything else to explain why they don’t come back.

Sons of Svanir are very, very obviously anti-female, so why would it be shocking they’d slay female norn trying to or joining Jormag?

Take it like this, any female norn icebrood are going to be insanely powerful/tough as they’ve survived the sons of svanir attempts to purge them :P.

Gwaiyn.4395:

now, this is probably a widely speculated theory, but what if the sons of svanir are capable of influencing jormag in some way?

for example, SoS says no females, and jormag goes “okay, no female ice broods”

i’m not saying SoS controls jormag, they can’t like have him attack hoelbrak or anything, it’s more of jormag going “i have ants following me? might as well make ants happy”, i know this adds a layer of intelligence that the other elder dragons haven’t shown though

Jormag doesn’t care about the ants though.

Also, in the Kodan dungeon storymode, the icebrood/sons of Svanir corrupt a female Kodan into icebrood and set her against the party.

A: Charr and humans are working on peace treaty… that conflict is on the way to being over.
B: The last Gauntlet they actually say the issue with the watchknights was completely fixed. Whether they were meant to be a field force or just added security to DR is unclear.

panzer.6034:

imsoenthused.1634:

Not me, I want armor to look like armor. I personally just despise badly designed armor, regardless of which stupid fallacy they pick, be it chainmail bikini or skin tight metal catsuit.

It’s fine though, I’m used to most fantasy armor being ridiculous looking trash covered in cleave points, with zero thought given to it’s ability to actually function as armor. And that applies to most of the men’s armor as well.

If realistic aesthetics are what you’re looking for, i’m not sure how you can handle any of this game at all. Giant dieselpunk tanks, weird helicopters, jim henson cat people, little gremlin inventors with glowing crystal laser guns. Realistic armor would look completely mundane in a way that would clash with style of pretty much every culture in the game world.

As has been pointed out in a million other threads, in a game where people spit fireballs at will, use 10 foot swords made of energy and shoot lightning, an armor’s “ability to actually function as armor” doesn’t match with anything realistic in the first place.

But going “I’d rather have a front line warrior who will be clashing against the enemy and/or beasts in close quarters combat or hand to hand to have decent armor coverage.”

Does not mean

“OMG THAT TANK IS SO UNREALISTIC. AND THAT RACE. GRASAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH”

Armor does not = the entire setting.

Red Queen.7915:

The “it’s fantasy so realism would be weird” argument seems to always miss the point. If we take this logic, we could all run around naked because Arcane Shield, yay!
Suspension of disbelief is key, and I have a way easier time to believe you when you say the armour is enchanted against magic spells and energy swords when it actually looks like armour, as opposed to you telling me the same thing about a chainmail bikini (or even the gladiator-style armours in GW2), because then there is nothing to enchant in the first place and it feels like you think I’m stupid.
Let’s apply the “enchanted armour” argument to GW2. A caster a) stands in the back slinging spells and b) can conjure their personal shield, so I can argue I don’t need full plate for protection as a light “armour” class. But a warrior on the frontlines with no magical ability can’t do that – they need something that’s been enchanted beforehand to protect them from lightning and fireballs, and if that something barely covers crotch, chest and wrists (for some odd reason), then they wouldn’t need an enchantment at all because the first blow aimed at the unprotected parts of their body would kill them.

I give gladiator armor a pass because of the namesake. IMO, it’s meant to be more of a piecemeal set instead of proper armor.

A fun silly thing about enchantment. If it’s done by putting magic runes/symbols onto the armor, you can put way more onto a full coverage suit then a chainmail bikini.

The thing most seem to forget is, a HUGE chunk of the people in the world simply won’t have the resources to get enchanted armor. It’d be crafted to provide protection first, then any enchantments added later.

Look at the armies. Seraph are all using full coverage armors. Lionguard are as well. The one npc group who uses more revealing gear are the PIRATES, who would have lesser quality items to begin with.

Whenever I look at ‘sexy’ armor (especially plate/chainmail or leather, somebody in close quarter combat), I instantly go “Either that person has magical protection, or they are speedy/dodgy enough to avoid most blows and a single blow would actually gut them.”

edit: So yeah, I don’t have a much of a problem with skimpy armor. At least, unless you try to tell my human warrior that your skimpy armor is equally protective as her full coverage plate armor.

Zhaitan’s corruption comes from holding onto/using a corrupted artifact, having corrupted essence directly infused/entering, or being brought back from the dead.

We really lucked out because we never got hit by any of those ;P.

Jormag lures you in and has you willingly join him for the most part, and branded are… weird.

Menadena.7482:

What bugs me is geographical changes. While most things I can buy if they were airlifted (even if some changes are a bit of a stretch) other things are less explainable. A key one being the area around the path to Bloodtide Coast. While you can explain part of it away with ‘oh, they infilled it’ each way I look at it brings problems, like the water level would not have changed.

How did the path to blood tide coast change? Because I don’t recall there being water around that portal directly. :P Also because I didn’t notice any change besides that to the fort.

Though it’s important to remember these changes didn’t just happen overnight in lore like it did for us IRL. :P

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

In terms if military strength:

1 – Charr.
-Huge numbers
-Tanks
-Helicopters
-Airships
-Artillery
2 – Asura.
-Golems (lots of em)
-many magic users
-Lazorz!
-lots of other powerful technology (force fields, teleporters, etc)
3 – Humans.
-Numbers (not as much as the charr but still quite a lot).
-Many magic users
-Clockwork robots
4 – Sylvari
-Many magic users (even non magic sylvari seem to have some magical abilities, such as racials)
5 – Norn
Last place since they basically have no army.

Just my 2 cents

I’d like to add that in the season 2 living story, at the Pact camp in the silverwastes at one point (either the camp in the zone, or a story mission), I overheard or talked to a Seraph npc who implies that the Seraph were also diverting Airships to the area.

I THINK it was something like they were already planning an assault on Fort Vandal (even using Airships), but the bandits fled it because of the Modrem before that plan actually happened.

Windu The Forbidden One.6045:

Seems fine to me

Those are awesome, how did you make them/have them made?

The pictures, not the armors. I can easily tell the armors lol.

GW2 does (IMO) an okay balance between death and life.

In a huge war effort like that against Zhaitan, not everybody would live to see the end.

Vileste.7148:

Hm… I think my warrior has quite sexualized armor right now. Ok, it’s a shop armor-skin, but you don’t need to farm an eternity to get the gems.

That armor is one that drives me so freaking insane.

The male version looks (for the most part), AWESOME. But the female version is so drastically different (the two don’t even look like the same armor set). I won’t buy it (until I get a male heavy armor user perhaps) for that reason.

Now if the female version looked very, very similar to the male (aka full plate, not random bits missing and or sexy parts), I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

Genlog.4983:

in my few Norn are the best when it comes to combat
even the mighty Charrs fall to capture there lands

1 Norn can easy beat 5 Charrs
so yea 1 norn i just a 1 mans army

Charr never tried to take Norn lands. While in a one on one Norn rule, in utter wide warfare, Charr win. It’s stated an entire legion could’ve taken the Norn in GW1 out.

In terms of an organized military, the Norn simply don’t have one.

nolop.8095:

Playing necro in dungeons is like feeding in DOTA or LoL. You make it harder for your team to win, if on purpose or not doesn’t matter.

How so? I don’t play DOTA so I don’t know what Feeding is, but do tell me how my bringing my necromancer into a dungeon actually makes the dungeon harder for the rest of the team.

Also, AP requirements are laughable. I have 10k points, I’m knowledgable in the game. I don’t heavily PVP or do WvW (so I lose out on those achievement points).

Harper.4173:

Agreed – but I’m willing to bet a person that has 3000 hours put into the game can’t be as bad as a person that only has 100-200. Even on their worst day.

Depends on what they put their hours into.

Somebody who does ONLY pvp, I would not be surprised to see do badly in a dungeon. Somebody might master AC, yet do badly in twilight arbor.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Despite the constant talk about “Lion’s Arch is named after those arches made out of lions”… this is not true.

In GW1, there was no arch. There were lions (which we can still see some in the ruins, iirc), but there was no arch nor any arch made out of lions.

^ this. And yes, you can find some of the original lion statues underwater still.

draxynnic.3719:

I largely agree with Kalavier, although I’d be inclined to swap the asura and the sylvari: the asura are very individualistic, but in lore we have mentions of things like a 10:1 ratio of golems to Peacemakers. That golem army likely lets them punch well above their weight.

One thing that needs to be remembered is that humans were able to hold their own against the charr once the two gamebreakers (the Searing and the Foefire) balanced one another out. Charr technology at its current point appears to threaten that, but before the truce humans were able to counter that through magic, guerilla warfare (which favours magic over technological artillery), copying charr technology, and during periods when Kryta invested more into the conflict, sheer numbers.

(Which, come to think on it, is something that should probably also be considered in the population thread, although I think Kryta’s population is less now than it was then.)

Golems I think fall into that area of “If tech or magic fails, Asura are screwed.” :P But, I’d have to agree on that swap. My only thought is really, the Asura don’t seem to truly have a military force of sorts, or at least organization as such.

I’d say humans are among the BEST defensive ones. I mean, Look at Ebonhawke. It started off as a ruined mining town with no defenses and turned into a very powerful fortress (defense wise). Kryta was safe from the Charr armies because of logistics really I think. Hard to get a sizable force across the Shiverpeaks to threaten the Kryta homeland and DR, and keep the ammo supply trains intact and without issue.

In a sense, charr tech advancements is a boon and a curse. I think one of the hearts or random dialogue actually states the Charr are having trouble getting ammo and the newest weapons to the front lines against the Flame Legion at times.

Ansau.7326:

I think your complains have more to do with the lack of female sexualized armors in gw2, rather than a real problem of lack of inspiration or good designs.

Aion:
http://images.mmosite.com/aion/suit/elyos/Guardian_Primus_Pilus_cloth_04.jpg
http://images.mmosite.com/aion/suit/asmodians/lv50l_03.jpg
http://images.mmosite.com/aion/suit/common/lv50u_04.jpg
http://images.mmosite.com/aion/suit/common/lv30_03.jpg
http://images.mmosite.com/aion/suit/asmodians/lv50u_74.jpg

That’s armor?

How is that even considered ‘heavy’ or plate armor? Reminds me more of bedroom clothing or cloth then plate armor.

Carighan.6758:

The one objective part of armor criticism is how >50% of the female armor is insanely skimpy. This looks stupid for light or medium armor but downright idiotic for heavy, as there’s no way this’d be any help in combat.

Now, even then it’d be acceptable – if the male armor looked similar. For many armor types, male and female armors don’t look like they’re part of the same set. Plus as I said, it looks stupid.

Light armor is cloth. It’s not meant truly to ‘tank’ blows in a sense.

Medium armor varies, I personally like to see it as ranging from able to take light hits to simply being all about speed (in character at least :P).

Course, through in enchantments or magical aids, and it gets more complicated.

However, I agree with the statement especially about ‘heavy armor’ (mainly plate)

Eilis.6089:

Omg agree. Aion has beautiful armor and so did GW1 (or at least a few pieces). Why do heavy females look like blocks? Also, let’s talk about medium armor trench coats. That got old fast.

Heavy female armor… looks like armor for the most part…

I’d have to go through and look at them again, but I recall most heavy armor on females looks like it’d actually protect you :P.

The backbrounds of the “training” tabs are pretty nice. would be cool if there was a gallery of all of them somewhere.

RoseofGilead.8907:

My warrior looks fabulous. Generally speaking, I like the female heavy armor options. The only one I really can’t stand is the hooker boots that come with the Phalanx heavy set.

I wish we could get the male version of Phalanx on females.

That’s one of the few armor sets that bugs me a lot, because the female and male versions don’t even LOOK alike. They could have different names (IMO) and nobody would notice.

Hoaxintelligence.4628:

I have that same problem like OP but then with back items, god they are ugly.
Haven’t seen any back item yet that comes close to my taste.
I would wear a cape but that’s not going to happen in gw2, and fluffy char backpacks, wooden night closets, and complete barbecue sets wearing on your back is just not my style. Therefore no back items for me

There are some normal back-pack style ones. Depending on the look.

Also quivers. I use Rox’s Quiver on my one ranger.

Wait a second, this is awful armor?

In just plain terms of ‘military strength’

I’d go Charr-human-Sylvari-Asura-Norn.

But that’s purely speaking of organized military forces/armies. Charr best, Norn weakest.

But as last poster said, there are many, many more aspects to it.

For example, I think Iron Legion and Humanity are both tied up military-wise from being able to freely deploy forces due to defensive requirements being high.

Asura and Norn have no real armies. Norn have the benefit of being WTF strong individually and can band together against threats. Asura however, rely on their tech and magic. If either fails, they are screwed.

Humans and Charr have armies, though Charr actually we only see probably 1/3rd of their strength as we don’t see blood or ash legion homelands/controlled areas.

Human army is stronger after CM storymode because Caudaucus can’t weaken the Seraph to make Jennah look bad while he’s living with her. LS implied Seraph have a bunch of airships now as well.

Sylvari have the wardens as their army, but I’d say it’s not as strong as other groups because of size and experience.

Tachenon.5270:

If GW2 had actual tanks, and these hypothetical tanks had taunt abilities, and the mentors were all tanks…

Ahem.

There were more than enough risen outside to pose a serious threat to anyone (unprotected by plot armor) trying to get to the docks. Fortunately, all we had to do was trot casually by them, and ‘get to the clippah!’ The mentors could have trotted by them, as well. As for the risen inside, if the gate proved to be an impediment, they could have just run up the steps and jumped off the walls in their hot pursuit, it’s not like they cared if they lived or died or landed on their heads or stepped on each others toes.

As for the dragon, well… it could fly. Walls, gates, whatever = meh. Three mentors? One good fear would send them all running off the nearest cliff.

Mentor sacrifice = melodramatic nonsense. All survivors, mentors and whoever, should have made a mad dash for the miracle ship, which miraculously hadn’t been destroyed by either the risen outside the fort, or the dragon, and which, once we were safely on board, sailed away unhindered by any risen ships, which miraculously never bothered to surround the island but kept on that one side for reasons which make no sense whatsoever, so they couldn’t even hurl stuff at us with those wacky dragon finger catapult thingees. Tremendous tactical error on the part of whoever planned that assault. He or she should have been court-martialed afterward.

Maybe that’s what saved us: there were no military tacticians in Tyria for Zhaitan to assimilate. So his forces just bumbled along, same as us, and we just happened to get lucky.

Yeah, and Zhaitan should’ve just sent a flight of dragons north and steamrolled Lion’s Arch and Kryta.

That’d make for a fun story!

Cause you know, I actually did think about that for a fanfic setting once. I basically came up with if Tequatl attacked DR, it couldn’t do much to stop him. BC would have the best chance because of all the cannons and tanks.

The amount of Risen on the way to the boat was not as bad as all the rising swarming into the courtyard (which the gate halted their advance briefly, which was all that was needed).

IIRC, as SOON as your ship lands the Risen are already attacking LA/about to and you have to rush to the defense immediately.

Tachenon.5270:

Even so, what purpose did their self-sacrifice serve? There were risen already on the other side of the gate, between us and the ship (which, if the risen had had any kind of actual leadership, should have been secured or destroyed). Why make a big melodramatic stand at the gate, when all they had to do was shut the gate (like it really mattered) then run, run, run, and live to fight another day?

I’ve covered this before — wrote an alternate scenario — because this one makes no sense.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/Where-s-the-story-New-Grindiness-of-PvE/page/2#post4489791

Keeping the main Risen force and/or the dragon busy instead of chasing them.

There were Risen on the other side of the gate, but not as many as in the fort.

Storm.1653:

Noted interesting and not good, great, fantasitc!!… just interesting lol

Eh. everybody has different tastes. Some dislike the looks I’ve made, others love them.

Some I use and some I don’t end up using. I like the outfits on my characters personally. :P

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

What treaty was there before the events of Proph but after the Guild Wars besides maybe a peace one?

Trade treaties before Proph and before the 3rd guild war, not after.

You really think Adelbren kept all those intact? He hated Kryta.

No leadership perhaps, but supplies and/or idea of how to get home? Unlikely. Saul didn’t wipe out their supply trains or supply stashes, just the leadership.

If you get to assume something that you can’t see in-game, then so do I: the Charr didn’t wipe out Ascalon’s supply lines, they could still bring in supplies from the west and south regularly…

What supply lines? Adelbern hated Kryta and refused any aid or such from them, and the way to Elona was through the crystal desert and Desolation.

Not exactly. I’m saying the writer used both Adelbern’s hatred for Kryta, and his straining relationship with his son, as the means to carry the PC away from Ascalon and over the Shivs. Technically, I suppose that is “out of universe” knowledge, but that was the real reason for it anyway.

I’m not saying Adelbern knew the Mantle’s true intentions, I’m just saying it’s a good thing he didn’t let them help. Death beats slavery any day. You’re right the Mursaat may not have had the resources to really get entrenched in Ascalon, who’s to say. But they would have been subject to Mantle rule regardless.

So Adelbern hates Krytans, yet you are saying he’s openly trading with them at the same time?

Yeah, but my point is less about whether that ambassador had good or bad intentions, and more of Adelberns treatment of him… and how easily he could’ve treated Eveinna like that, only now Rurik can’t protect the ambassador.

A little off topic, but it relates to the argument:

Perhaps the most remarkable difference between Kryta and Ascalon is how they each dealt with the Charr threat. Kryta’s king fled the country, and they willingly let themselves become virtual slaves in order to survive it and see another day. Ascalon’s king basically says kitten it, we’re not running from this even if it kills us all. Minus Rurik and the refugees of course.

It’s rather telling of ANet’s future writers that they decide to validate Kryta and incriminate Ascalon. Lesson learned: safety is more important than freedom.

As I recall, it was very subtle, very stealthy take over. The White Mantle literally stepped in and kicked the Charr out, while the government was in shambles and bankrupt (the king had taken the savings with him IIRC). They simply took the government seat and for the most part, were decent. Until the events of the flameseeker prophecies.

I don’t see how it’s “validating what Kryta did and saying Ascalon was bad”.

Kryta had no government, no leadership. White Mantle simply stepped forth, protected the land and offered leadership. Until the shining blade and the heroes exposed them, they actually did a decent job at it and were very good at covering up the bad things. After the shining blade gained power and influence… then the white mantle went nasty.

Rednik.3809:

Fun fact – dead are not free. They are dead. Adelbern was a horrible example of the king, he not just completely failed as leader and lost his war due to his foolish stubbornness, but he also betrayed and killed even those who managed to survive his failures.

As I said once to somebody trying to say humanity should get Adelbern to have the ghosts help them.

“There are no true sons of Ascalon left. The only ones who survived were either banished, exiled, or willingly left alongside either group.”

I take the lesson as more like this personally. “If you stubbornly refuse help, change, or accept the situation, you will fail and/or die.”

Adelbern style Ascalonians are present in GW2 in the form of the seperatists… who demand or try to force humans and charr into conflict again. Even though peace is INSANELY good and benefiting of Ebonhawke, they want only continued war.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Kalavier.1097:

Said warning would basically be no warning. that cave isn’t very long. :P

Probably, but not necessarily. Keep in mind that we experience a scaled down version of the maps in the game compared to the lore.

Furthermore, being on a peak, the Durmand Priory would see enemy forces well before-hand, and could issue a probable warning before they reach the cave.

Still, it’s a rather questionable defense tactic. But it gives a living world-based excuse to expand the Durmand Priory to have additional facilities where the gate&refugee camp were/where the cave entrance is. Imagine rather than walking out of the cave/zoning into Lornar’s not onto a ledge, but an offshoot library+defense measure (with the Priory having been attacked twice and threatened an additional time in 1325 AE, and threatened twice in 1326 AE, it would make sense for them to shore up defenses too).

All the Order HQs have always felt a little small. The expansion to Vigil Keep was great, though when the banks left and again when the refugee camp left, it feels… less than it could be. I hope they take a chance to properly make them feel like real large organization headquarters.

Well, while scaling might be slightly off, ingame it feels pretty realistic compared to other games like WoW. Never got to doing my thing of trying to scale travel times going off the 3 days from ebonhawke to ascalon city in Ghosts of Ascalon.

But I do think that little bluff is perfect for a walled fortification. Expand walls to also go around the front of the priory (somehwat on that cliff were Vista is) and on the other side around the bridge and other ramp to secure the outside…

Vigil Keep I think they should let us explore more of it. It’s got this big vast fortress vertically, but we explore the front porch basically, and the tiny planning area that is the instance. :P

One thing I’d love to have seen in LA would be stables like in queensdale and CM. We know horses are a thing in the lore of GW (All those carriages and wagons… the jousting toys, Saul was ‘ridden’ out when he was exiled, etc)… wish they’d be included ingame even without a mount system.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

It would make the most sense, however, if we treat it as if all three mentors are there and hold off the risen together, Sieran and Forgal holding off the horde while Tybalt sets up a bomb to wipe all three and several dozen risen out of existence. This is how I like to presume the personal story went overall – that there were multiple heroes who did every storyline, so there was not one but three potential-Commander of the Pact figures at the Battle for Claw Island, one per order.

That’s how I see it personally as well. At LEAST one person from each race actually.

Also, each of the mentors was skilled and dangerous (And Forgal is a norn. That’s deadly by itself :P), but if all three held the line? It makes sense.

How has Wardrobe system failed? I’ve made plenty of interesting looks with it.

Vilenia.3081:

Well, I must be the only person to have cheered when Sieran died. A very emotional moment, indeed. I joined the Order of Whispers and the Vigils with 6 characters just so I could avoid missions with Sieran. If Forgal and Tybalt had to share her fate, so be it.

Why cheer when she died? I’m curious.

To put it simply, I found her attitude and personality to be irritating. Maybe we could just say she was over-the-top enthusiastic. When I found out how annoying Sieran was, I already had two characters who signed up in the Priory. So I had to complete missions with her not once but twice. I realy disliked doing Personnal Story missions at the time. Finishing those was a liberation.
… and than I got attacked several times in Whisperhill Bogs, so the poor girl kept annoying me after her tragic demise x)

Fair enough. Though many Sylvari are like that.

Unsure if you know, but there are random events for the other mentors as well. Though last theory I heard was those risen commanders could be Forgal and Tybalt.

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

I’ll look it but, but I recall that Drakes are actually not related to dragons such as Glint or the elder dragons. Remember, GW doesn’t follow typical fantasy creatures exactly. Incubuses are bat like beings. Bats are more like big lizards. What says Drakes are explicitly tied to dragons?

The wiki says drakes are tied to dragons…

Yeah, but perhaps the statement was drakes aren’t tied to Elder Dragons species-wise.

FoW and UW were supposed to be Balthazars and Grenths personal realm in the Mists. And it’s not a direct link like an AD&D cleric praying to his deity, but it is similar. The gods gave magic to Tyria(most of it anyway), and then curtailed its use because of Doric’s plee and split magic into 4 schools to limit its destructive power. Basically, every time you cast a spell in GW1 it was because the gods let you.

Yeah, but those realms weren’t touched on in the storylines. It was something you could do.

IMO, there is a difference between “Balthazar gave fire magic to the world” and “Balthazar personally approves each fireball.” One is something they did, the other is direct involvement. The gods were not directly involved with the world. Giving magic is ancient history in Tyria.

You are arguing semantics. When I say “Human gods” I OBVIOUSLY refer to the SIX GODS, who directly tie to HUMANITY. Not that they ARE HUMAN. But they are the GODS OF THE HUMANS.

They were the gods of everyone on Tyria, whether they believed in them or not. Why? Because they gave magic to the world that everyone used equally, Charr, human, and Aloe alike. Oh and there were no other gods in Tyria…until GW2. I’m sure humanity never mentions it because of that whole “human bias” cop-out.

Yet we know they weren’t worshipped by Tengu. And only humans ended up in the UW. (Other races appeared in Realm of Torment, but that was because of Abbaddon’s touch, not belief). Hell, as far as we know, only humans go to Grenth STILL. How can Grenth be the world’s god of Death if he only deals with the souls of humans?

Genesis.8572:

Re Centaur: How about answering my question:

C: Where is the evidence in-game that humans are getting any fight back or showing signs of a remerging ascendance? Please, I’m sincerely asking you. Where is any sign of this?

As I said in what you responded to above, those hearts quests don’t really matter. Yes, if we take the Harathi Hinterlands map to be post-Personal Story it would seem that the humans have the advantage on the centaur EXCEPT we are told in Living Story Season 2 that the centaur basically where they were at the start of the human personal story: at the front doorsteps of the human capital.

Because that war is described as going back and forth? “Right up to our doorstep” is very vague. Given how in the hearts we push them back and kill their war leaders, and the Pavilion is a celebration and testament to humanity.

“The Crown Pavilion was once the The Great Collapse area, but was transformed in to a gladiatorial arena in honor of Queen Jennah’s jubilee and as a celebration of the human spirit to fight and endure. "

If the war was going so badly, I doubt she would’ve sent the balloons everywhere and threw such a party. The Norn and Charr concerns at the Summit are basically the same thing.

“We have foes just waiting for our defenses to weaken to try to attack us.” Jennah simply worded her statement differently.

I’m sorry that I see humanity’s weakened state as of GW2 to be expected compared to GW1’s ending. Two nations destroyed, three enslaved, and the last one (Cause they forced Kurzicks and Luxons to merge with the empire) isolated.

Yes and no. We were told that humans are in a weakened state from their prominent position in GW1. But we were also told that we would see humanity reemerging and prevailing in GW2 from that weakened state. But the emphasis so far has been on humanity sucking in comparison with the other races.

I’ll agree perhaps we don’t see humanity kicking kitten (though the Crown Pavilion celebrates humanity surviving.), but I disagree that they are shown to completely suck against other races. I think we should leave that at that.

Indeed. Instead of most settings which are “HUMANITY kitten YEAH!” and Humans shoving everybody else out, now Humans were struggling just to stay on the map. End of Personal story they are better off in several ways, but still not as strong as they once were.

Does this mean that humanity is not deserving of its own “HUMANITY kitten YEAH!” moment in GW2?

Moment, sure. Constant moments and storylines? Nah.

Norn have less territory. Asura have less territory. The Sylvari have less territory. The only nation(s) with more territory are the Charr. Yet humanity is treated like yesterday’s garbage by the story team. I get that they are trying to show humanity’s backs to the wall, but I think they showed too much of it and not enough of humanity successfully standing up on their own two feet without the gods. That is my criticism. We’re not seeing humanity pick itself back up. If all of GW2 is going to be about humanity’s continual decline or repeated falling back, then I would say that ArenaNet’s priorities are kittened up. No one wants to play that and be a part of repeated failures with no hope for success.

Norn have no government, and are spread out across most of the playable shiverpeaks with homesteads. “Territory” isn’t really a huge deal with them.

Asura have a fair bit, but make up for lack of territory with advanced magi-tech. Also they seem to favor building underground or vertical lab complexes.

Charr, as we have seen (Iron Legion holdings, Blood and Ash controlled lands seem to be a non-factor in most cases) hold Ascalon. The ones we play as and deal with work from Ascalon, so equal holdings to humanity.

That aside, I play as a human necromancer being my Main who I’ve done all personal and living story with. I don’t feel like humanity is being treated like kitten and lesser then everything else in all thing storywise. Weakened, and forced to rebuild compared to others simply BUILDING, yes.

IMO, for Humanity to truly step forward and advance, Caudacus and the hostile Ministers to Jennah HAVE to be dealt with for good. The infighting caused by that which not only weakens the Government, but as shown in the human personal story, extends to literally weakening the military forces on the field, is not good. It’s lessened since the CM dungeon storymode, but we don’t know if he’s been let go to return home of if he’s still living with Jennah so to speak.

As somebody said before. If they advanced the world, a lot of zones would have less content/combat stuff to do. Hard to have humanity rising from the ashes and securing Kryta without wiping out much of the hearts in the area.

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

The source. That’s the question. Considering it’s written from an IN UNIVERSE perspective, it may be flawed. It definitely is considering the treaties bit, so what says the conflict bit factually 100% is true?

If there were treaties between them before, there’s little reason to assume there can’t be after. The fact that it is “in universe” just makes it more plausible. Especially when Ermenred outright states that the whole excerpt is “not fiction, but based on interpreted historical fact”. Interpreting winning a battle as winning the war would be quite a shady “interpretation” of the facts…

What treaty was there before the events of Proph but after the Guild Wars besides maybe a peace one?

Also, other historians have skewed the facts(both IRL and in GW). Just look at the “stormcaller triumph” memorial. And he lives in Kryta and was in Cantha when he wrote that passage. He simply may not have had all the facts (communication over those distances wasn’t likely that great. No instant messanging).

The one army in Kryta may be weakened. But they weren’t trying to defend a ruined kingdom (Now a wasteland) with weakened armies, ruined defenses, and an ISOLATIONIST king.

No, they were just trying to cross back over the Shivs with no supplies, no leadership, and no plan.

No leadership perhaps, but supplies and/or idea of how to get home? Unlikely. Saul didn’t wipe out their supply trains or supply stashes, just the leadership.

See, the fact Adelbern hates the Krytans so much is what dooms Ascalon. If he had accepted help or not be so hateful, in my opinion, Ascalon could’ve lasted longer. But he turned Ascalon toward Isolation and refusal to accept the situation (which was bad).

If he had accepted Krytan(Mantle) help, Ascalon would have been enslaved by the Mursaat.

Which is applying out of universe knowledge to justify in universe stubborn hate.

NOBODY at that time, besides the small shining blade forces, KNEW the White Mantle was Evil. So saying that Adelbern is justified in threatening to kill an ambassador offering aid and refusing to consider going to Kryta for recovery or help, is saying he somehow knew the White Mantle was evil entirely and had knowledge nobody else did.

We can say “Looking back, it’s a good thing he may have refused that help”, but we can’t say at that exact moment he had good reasons.

Also, Enslaved by Mursaat? Maybe. But it’d have survived. Also I (personally) think they wouldn’t bother heavily with Ascalon as firmly as they did Kryta. It’s a very, VERY long hike from Ascalon to the bloodstone in the Maguuma, and wouldn’t be worth it.

Hell, from what we know, they actually didn’t even bother the Ascalon settlement much at all until the Civil War went into full swing.

draxynnic.3719:

It comes out right underneath the Priory – they’re possibly assuming that they’ll give warning of anything coming.

Still, it IS an opening.

Said warning would basically be no warning. that cave isn’t very long. :P

IMO, nothing beats a solid wall around that little clearing the refugee camp was on.

Vilenia.3081:

The first time I did The Battle of Claw Island, I was like “Nooooooo !” and “Why, Forgal ? Why ???” and also "You’re tearing me appart Forgal !!!’

And than, I joined the Durmand Priory…

Well, I must be the only person to have cheered when Sieran died. A very emotional moment, indeed. I joined the Order of Whispers and the Vigils with 6 characters just so I could avoid missions with Sieran. If Forgal and Tybalt had to share her fate, so be it.

Why cheer when she died? I’m curious.