Guild Wars 2

It could also be, due to nature of HOW the mordrem guard are, he can zap one of the trees to simply produce a duplicate in a pod.

I remember something about branded slowly reforming over time, but I forget where. We know that the “shatterer” is merely a title, as soon as we kill one, another dragon takes the title.

Calcifire.1864:

from the article it seems to shed a little nature on how the dream protects sylvari:

it’s a distraction.

the “constant noise” that soundless complain about is the whole POINT of the dream, it’s so noisy that unless mordremoth is actively shouting as loud as he can, they just can’t hear him over the crowd.

and the wyld hunts are a distraction to keep you busy and not pay attention to the whispers.

that’s why the soundless are so sussceptible: their minds are so quiet that they can hear mordremoth all the time!

I wonder if nightmare court hears it stronger as well.

I think I saw Faolin killing pact soldiers in the one trailer, alongside other sylvari and mordrem.

Shiren.9532:

Why didn’t the people of Lion’s Arch WP out when Scarlet attacked?

Assuming the answer is the conflict caused them to stop working (which is really sketchy given how many WPs work in conflict zones like Orr) why didn’t the nobles in Maguuma WP out? We had, iirc, at least three working WPs in Verdant Brink during BWE2, including one at the noble camp. Why are we wasting our time and Pact time defending and escorting nobles in the middle of a battle zone when they can just use the WP in their camp to at the very least travel to Camp Resolve? These are nobles, not regular civilians, and at least one of them is portrayed as having a good head on her shoulders even if Farren is reduced to comic relief.

Camp Resolve isn’t far away, hell the entrance to Verdant Brink leading to Amber Sandfall isn’t far away. If waypoints are real, why didn’t the rich nobles cough up the coin to save their own lives? Even if money was an issue, wouldn’t Rata Sum be fairly expected to wave costs when lives are in danger? That’s got to be less expensive than wasting Pact resources behind enemy lines to try and fortify and protect nobles.

The implications are to actually use the waypoint, you have to be directly under it.

As for “Why don’t they just waypoint out??” My assumption is that sending cargo through waypoints is either far more expensive (We know it’s fairly expensive to ship by asura gate), or just harder to do.

One theory I’ve had is the gold is an out of pocket expense. It’s doubtful many of those nobles are carrying their wealth with them. Just as well, the servants likely don’t have much ‘cash’ on them. So it’s a choice, waypoint yourself out but leave all your belongings and servants behind, or evac by heli/airship. I’ve not done that event chain, but it sounds like a number get evacuated by air and their belongings alongside them.

Contested waypoints may simply be a case of “It’s unsafe to teleport there.” how this is figured? Unsure. In some cases perhaps it’s a manually triggered thing at the camp. Or maybe it’s an auto shut off if dragon energy is too much in the area? That specific part I can’t explain.

Enrif.7359:

I think the charr have the most advanced guns. Humans are more towards flintlock.
I can’t see Norn with Gun technology, if any they just get human/charr guns.
The different third gun tech would be asuran magitech kind of gun

The source I remember but cannot find was talking about guns, asura wasn’t included.

I think the term was Arquebus, which is one of the shiverpeak weapon set rifles.

I remember once reading that human, charr, and norn have unique, different ways of how their guns work. Similar in quality/era or something, but three different styles. However, I can’t remember the source or find anything about it ingame right now.

Also, I’m seeking confirmation, in the lore, GW2 doesn’t have rapid fire rifles, but instead more like early guns in that way of “Load a single shot, fire it, reload.”?

HaseKent.1843:

There is 1 Tengu NPC in one of the camp as well. Can’t remember his name and which camp he is at… but I think he is one of the pact

Likely you mean Izu Steelstrike, one of the three legendary crafters/blacksmiths brought to the pact by Traehearne (Occam and Beigarth being the other two). That came is a giant PS npc call back really.

The three crafters are from one mission in the pact arcs (Though Beigarth is a major figure in one of the norn starter arcs. I want to say Occam is in one of the sylvari arcs but I’d have to check).

Then you have Shashoo, the female quaggan from the “Aid a race” arc, and Baroosh from the same arc (If you picked a certain path). BOTH show up in Orr (Baroosh is in the barge mission, Shashoo twice if you aided the quaggans). Both are now in the pact, and Shashoo apparently among the officers..

Shashoo and Baroosh show up. Baroosh explains that quaggans serving in the pact have learned to speak more directly and faster. This explains why Shashoo sounds so weird.

Shashoo is also the commanding officer of the ‘ordiance’ group airship survivors, including the legendary crafters Occam, Beigarth, and Izu Steelstrike.

Beigarth mentions his daughter is somewhere in Verdant Brink, as she was with the fleet. I forget her name but I’m curious if anybody has spotted her?

To be fair, only Grenth and Balthazar have beings in their service that double as avatars. (That we know of)

The reapers and whatever Balthazar’s guys were called (in Fissure of Woe). Melandru, Dwayna, and Lyssa have no beings listed as avatar and another title. So their avatar may just be a version of themselves that is powered down to interact with mortals.

I remember disliking Oola and Gadd in Gw1. Gadd was supposedly teaching Livia necromancy stuff, but ingame was an ele. His garb was very necromancer style as well…

Oola on the other hand, came across quite clearly to me as an elementalist, yet was a necromancer in skills. :P

EdwinLi.1284:

Also, I mentioned Oola being in GW2 because her Soul is attached to her Golems. Oola’s Spirit becoming one with her Golem was only a side effect due to it being Necro Energy powering them for the past 250 years.

Nah. IIRC, that was actually her goal, at least as it’s said within the little mini-dungeon of her lab in GW2.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

M.O.X. would know about Beyond exploits though.

True, but not really much else personally.

If M.O.X. appears, I hope he looks like he does in GW1. And at least does something in terms of the story.

BuddhaKeks.4857:

Gee Kalavier, you don’t have to be a buzzkill everytime someone mentions references to the GW1 heroes. :P

I’m fine with references, as long as they fit and aren’t forced.

M.O.X. suddenly mentioning stuff about the GW1 hero seems forced. He came about post EOTN IIRC :P…

CureForLiving.5360:

Seeing how Zinn’s lair was in Maguuma (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Zinn's_laboratory) and we are going further into Maguuma… (not sure if we’re going into that part of Maguuma, comparison maps here http://i.imgur.com/hblHbGt.jpg) And Zinn did create MOX… well no reason Tiami couldn’t restart him. Just think he might have interesting anecdotes to share about the hero(s) from GW1.

Eh. Depends how long he was around the heroes. Even though, what would be the situation that makes him remark about GW1 heroes? :P

Xstein.2187:

There was another topic about this. Nobody knows for sure. It is my belief that they don’t feel temperature like animals do. Plants don’t have nerves. However, they are affected to some degree, just not as much as others. For example, plants don’t get very much sunlight in winter, although sylvari eat meat. Water freezing in plant cells can kill the plant and water freezing between cells can lead to desiccation or dryness. Cold weather can also decrease enzyme activity (so they may be prone to fatigue). Cold weather causing changes to the fluidity of the cell membrane can also harm plants.

In the other topic it was also mentioned that sylvari npcs scream when they are on fire. Do they scream cause they feel heat or because they know they’re in trouble? Based on this, if it was me, I wouldn’t complain about the cold. However, I would say that I am tired and thirsty all the time. Perhaps your leaves can also change colors and fall off. I have not heard of this happening to sylvari in game. However, it wouldn’t surprise me if it could happen. Even if sylvari can eat meat, its my bet that they have some photosynthetic ability. After all, why are a lot of them green?

We know Sylvari can feel pain. So the “Plants dont have nerves” thing doesn’t entirely ring true.

As another said, based on individual Sylvari. For example some don’t mind normal clothing(not plant clothing). Others feel as if it restricts them. I recall one Sylvari wandering Wayfarer foothills who complains about the cold on her feet, and when asked “Wear boots?” she says she doesn’t like them.

Remember… Those four are merely the main/biggest/most popular ones.

There are other spirits of the wild like Minotaur, Hare, Otter, Gorilla (If you take an ingame item a certain way). I’m sure there is a spirit of the tortoise or turtle :P.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Joko’s conquest seems unchanged, it’s just that there was a refugee flood long after the conquest by all indication.

I’d assume likely a slip up by Joko’s forces on border patrol :P

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Sorry, didn’t mean to suggest they didn’t! Also sorry about the thread derailment, but… while I don’t think they stopped existing, their numbers do seem to have declined precipitously. It makes sense, too. Even aside from the fact that the spread of healing magic, rise of the guardian, and loss of resurrection has muscled them out of their magical niche, what makes a monk a monk is the fact they believe their powers come from the gods- healing prayers, not healing magic . With the, well, secularization of spellcasting, the available pool of new monks must have largely dried up.

I describe monks as basically being a human only thing now. Mostly the Priests of Dwayna really.

Monks still exist… Priests/priestess of Dwayna.

I’ve heard nothing that says monks stopped existing, just we don’t play them anymore :P

Obsidian.1328:

In Ascalon, not in their homelands. Or are you trying to say the Charr literally spent their ENTIRE strength military-wise in the events of prophecies, down to the last charr?

YES! Or at least most of them. How else could you simultaneously attack 3 large kingdoms at the same time when you couldn’t even beat 1 years ago? They had been gearing up for this for decades, maybe centuries. They wanted all humans dead, and they were going to die trying. That’s their goal in life, their schtick, their raison d’etre.

At least that’s how they were written back then, now they are the race players choose if they like steampunk or cats.

Really? Because as I recall, it was the WALL that gave the Charr trouble, not the actual Ascalonian army. The searing broke the wall. And frankly, their reasoning was never, EVER given in Prophecies. We had no motivation, no driving force, we knew nothing about the charr other then “They attacked.”

Wait…so now you’re agreeing they won the war?

I’m saying I’ve seen actual evidence that Ascalon at least ‘won’ or pushed back the charr for a brief while, so sure. I’ll accept it as that. The charr were pushed back, then returned south with a second wave.

Again, in Prophecies, we literally knew nothing about the Charr. We could’ve killed the king of all charr in ascalon. Or we could’ve killed a Rurik-style general who took an army south while the rest stayed home.

Syionide.3705:

stop crushing my dreams Kal, i just want to go to cantha

I’d love to as well. But we’d need a good reason/new minded ruler to allow players inside much.

Syionide.3705:

I think we would all agree that it is at least possible that DSD has influence on Canthan shores and is consuming the magic in the jade sea and Echovald forest causing them to revert to their pre jade wind states.

However, this isn’t true. We’ve seen a semi-current world map that shows the jade sea as solid.

If the Jade sea was reverting, the Zephryites wouldn’t have had that nice jade statue either. I don’t see the DSD having anything to do with the forest or the jade sea really. Both are isolated from the main oceans :P

Obsidian.1328:

If by cherry-picking you mean critical thinking, then yes I’m guilty. If you want to white-knight ANet simply because they hold the keys to the kingdom, that’s your problem not mine. I won’t agree to disagree if you won’t try and use common sense.

Yes… because common sense saying that a lush area turned wasteland is less likely to prosper or survive then a nation that received zero drastic enviromental shifts.

And we have no idea of Ascalon’s full homeland either. How many other cities do you think Ascalon could have had that were off the map?

Not many, given how they never have been mentioned? Hell, Ebonhawke sounds like it was long deserted or destroyed when the Ebon Vanguard found it. I’m sure they had some towns yes, but probably not to the scale of Ascalon city or Rin. We know that overall, Ascalon was ruined.

Unternehmen Wacht am Rhein.

what?

As were the Charr armies weakened. Again, if you get to auto-spawn Charr reserves, so do I.

The charr armies in Ascalon, yes. That viewpoint is very immature way to debate. I’m not “auto spawning”. It’s more likely for the invaders to be able to reinforce their numbers from an untouched homeland then a ruined nation that has been turned into a wasteland to reinforce their armies.

There is no bias in saying “Hey, the invaders whose home base was never even damaged, much less their home population severely culled, would be more likely to bring forth a fresh army sooner then defenders who have been greatly weakened!” It’s not bias when explicitly Ascalon’s forces were left greatly weakened by the end of prophecies.

So were the Charr.

In Ascalon, not in their homelands. Or are you trying to say the Charr literally spent their ENTIRE strength military-wise in the events of prophecies, down to the last charr?

The Ebon Vanguard itself is proof of how easy it is to “write-in” more troops. Most of its former Ascalan Vanguard troops went with Rurik west. Yet they still had enough troops for a small army to march north. Where did all these troops come from? I thought Ascalon was on the brink!! Poof…“human refugees, exiles, and escaped prisoners” that’s where. The pencil is mightier than the sword. (cuz anet censors won’t let me write “pen” and “is” in the same sentence…)

They were not a small army. You think the charr would capture and imprison a large human force (aka, a small army)? The Ebon Vanguard is a unit, not an army. Formed from the vanguard who didn’t leave (and not all of them left either.) and more likely a chunk of those refugees and prisoners became support personnel we saw in the eye of the north.

You really need to stop trying to justify GW2 writing by using some sort of RL supply and transportation analysis of a video game. My point is it could have gone either way given the right writing. Heck, they could have made the Centaurs take over Kryta had they wanted…and they could have made it seem legit too. They could have done anything they wanted to too…which is exactly what they did.

The fact is, according to the original writing, Ascalon was supposed to have won the war. Aside from the few NPC quotes which say so, the clues and allusions in the game itself are entirely self-evident. I can’t teach narrative analysis, so I guess you’re on your own on this one. That the author(s) both never definitively said so, nor ever revisited Ascalon in any “victors” scenario, is the precise reason ANet was able to do what they did with the narrative.

They didn’t capitalize on any ambivalence, there wasn’t really any to begin with. They created the ambivalence themselves, milked it into plausible deniability, and then finally wrote not only a different ending…but based a new playable race’s history and culture largely on that new ending.

And a chunk of your arguments boil down to “We didn’t see it, therefore this happened exactly as I envision it.”

Yes, Ascalon won the war, but you know what I would’ve done/said if I was an Ascalonian warmaster after the war ended?

“Adelbern, we must rebuild our armies and defenses immediately. We do not know how beaten the charr are, if we killed their top leaders or merely a war general on the field. We don’t know their motives besides wanting us dead, so another invasion is probable. You need to abandon your hatred of Kryta and others, and get help now, before the Charr return.”

Because nothing, NOTHING in prophecies says what tier of leaders we kill. We know they come from another region, so did we kill the ‘kings’ of the charr? Or simply a general in charge of this force?

Syionide.3705:

Heres a picture of that statue in the harbor~
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6eh_jGdrB0bNGtiTzdESzlBd2s/view?usp=sharing

It’s a lighthouse. IIRC, you can find three total, all of which are perfectly identical.

Obsidian.1328:

Wow. Factions and Nightfall were created to serve the GW1 foundational narrative set by Prophecies, not to serve an entirely new game. You can’t say that for EotN…it’s narrative purpose was to introduce the GW2 story. I never said anything about it’s gameplay mechanics or time-frame being GW2 material. You really don’t need more than a rudimentary understanding of fiction writing to get that.

And I feel like EOTN connects fine to either lore setting, but I link it to GW1. You’ll have to agree to disagree, but either viewpoint doesn’t disqualify our opinions. EOTN is canon. denying the events there around Ascalon is cherry-picking.

Compare the statements.

A: Charr may bring in a fresh, second force from their homelands in the north.
B: Adelbern will bring up reserve ascalon army units from the south end of the country that have spent two years doing nothing (Or in your example, two entire years dealing with ‘stragglers’).

Makes sense to me. Again, you’re still assuming the Charr had reserves. If you can do that, so can I. And I, like you, can make up whatever reason in the wide, wide, world of sports that could make that true.

You seem to fail to understand the point. The charr were invading. We have no idea their homeland. It is rational to think that maybe they had more forces. Hell, we didn’t have a clue in prophecies if we killed off the equivalent to a field general, or the leaders of all charr everywhere!

RL comparision. This is like me saying “America sends a fresh group of soldiers to Europe to aid in the fighting.” And you going “Well, Hilter then pulls out a brand new, fresh, reserve army that he didn’t use ever before!”

You are assuming Ascalon has reserves when the lore explicitly states their armies were weakened. And as the canon events apparently turned out, the Charr DID bring down a new army, and Ascalon did NOT have reserve units of great number (If any, because that’d imply Adelbern purposefully held back Ascalon soldiers from the front line and had them out of combat).

Also, do remember, Pyres revolution didn’t do much of anything until AFTER the foefire, when the Flame Legion imperator died. Ebon Vanguard was skilled, but a distraction. We see them basically get stomped and almost entirely captured at one point when the Charr apparently gave them direct attention. Norn actually left the charr alone, and only stomped the idiot warbands that caused trouble. It’s stated at that point one army, or even an entire legion could easily sweep aside the Norn if the Charr wanted. Ascalon’s army was weakened from prophecies, and may not have recovered. Number wise mainly.

So in ten years Ascalon can’t recover, but the Charr can? Bias.

Because the charr have a homeland that was untouched by the war, and for all we know may not have sent their full strength south? And the fact that Ascalon wouldn’t have untouched, fresh and ready for combat reserves just sitting around doing nothing.

There is no bias in saying “Hey, the invaders whose home base was never even damaged, much less their home population severely culled, would be more likely to bring forth a fresh army sooner then defenders who have been greatly weakened!” It’s not bias when explicitly Ascalon’s forces were left greatly weakened by the end of prophecies.

Having soldiers in the south isn’t crazy. Making implications that Adelbern had a fresh army down there that’d turn the tide of war? Not so much.

I never said fresh, and army is an army. The Charr certainly had their share of lost numbers too. Regardless, this specific argument was a theoretical one based on a non-GW2 narrative…which doesn’t hold up because we both could just end up arguing imaginary forces “off-the-map” until the cows came home.

Only, factually according to what I’ve seen… the Charr did bring forth a new army. Ascalon is stated explicitly to have been weakened. Are you saying Glint doesn’t have a kittening clue what she’s talking about?

Again, maybe the charr got pushed out, and Adelbern decided that holding the northern end of Ascalon was never going to work, and thus focused the population south of the wall where it provided a limited amount of safety. Since Ascalon’s army and defenses are EXPLICITLY stated to be weaker.

So since you didn’t comment on it, you agree GW2 ANet ignored those two statements? Ok.

Nothing I see says they did. Mhenlo’s statement implies at least a short period of peace. Since that line would (timeline wise) come shortly after end of prophecies, maybe that hopeful peace lasted shorter then Mhenlo liked.

Maybe the Ebon Vanguard (the Ascalon Vanguard originally) sent north triggered renewed attacks from the charr southward by their raids.

^ adding. When the Flame Legion leader died in the foefire, the other legions rose up and started actively fighting them. Then females joined the fighting and tipped the scales against the shamans.

Rednik.3809:

Muchacho.2390:

Acsalon was never charr homeland. I dont see how one conquerer is more justified then another. Infact both the humans and charr dont really have a justified claim. Both just took it by force. The humans once and the charr even twice.

But its still was charr land, and humans took it and completely genocide charr who lived there. So ruthless retaliation (especially against Ascalon) was pretty expected.

“We’ll just kick everybody else out, then throw a fit when they come back angry and with a vengeance.”

Aenesthesia.1697:

you don’t take it lightly when someone who is not your queen decrees that now you are at peace with the monsters, that you will no longer fight them out of your grandparent’s lands, and that you have to fight alonside them… how are you not going to take it seriously?

And anybody with common sense would know retaking Ascalon is impossible. And if you choose to continue trying to fight an endless war with no good prospects vs noticing the brand and the dangers of the dragons…

Let’s just say it this way. If Ebonhawke decided to go “kitten THE QUEEN!” and continue the war, She’d simply pull all support from it. Let’s see how they like it with no Asura gate to bring in food and supplies, or reinforcements in the form of the Fallen Angels or other people.

I can accept in character and OOC responses of “I don’t like this.” but think in the larger picture. Ebonhawke wasn’t winning. The treaty actually gives them a decent amount of land outside of the walls, as well as ending the raids from the charr. It gives children a chance to grow up without fear of a siege round sailing over the wall and destroying their home.

Literally the mindset is “kitten PEACE, WE WANT TO DIE IN WAR!”

Obsidian.1328:

No, because you are cherry-picking. Those owners, as you say, of the game even state that EotN is meant as bridging the storylines between the games. If you can straight-faced say that EotN was a logical “4th installment” to the Guild Wars series, and had nothing to do with what narrative they wanted to produce for GW2, then you have no business posting anything in these forums.

EOTN is gw1. You could argue Beyond is kinda “1.5” (as a friend who played all of GW1 content said when I asked him about it). I’m Cherry picking because I include nearly everything in the GW1 game? Interesting. How is Factions a “logical” second installment to Prophecies? How was Nightfall a “logical” third chapter? Until toward the end of nightfall, the events were all unrelated. Then Abbaddon was revealed to have masterminded a lot of this stuff. Since you don’t work at Anet, don’t talk to the writing team/original writer (as far as I can tell), what makes you able to concretely state EOTN is only considered part of GW2?

The implication was there in Proph. The statement from Mhenlo is backed up by Empire Divided…which wasn’t written for the wiki, but as canon as an out-of-game document from an in-game perspective. The end was poorly shown, you’re right. But that’s for 2 reasons. 1) The Charr were never conceived as a playable race, and their assault on humanity was only meant as a catalyst to the Prophecies narrative. Why? Because there were no plans to come back to Ascalon back then for anything. It actually wasn’t until GW2 development itself(EotN) that we revisit Ascalon and the Charr and that’s the first time we see a different ending being told.

I saw no implication within prophecies itself. And it would’ve been EASY to do. Add a bit in Titan source about going back to the warmaster. Then he informs you that his scouts (and other scouts across ascalon) are noticing the charr actually pulling back north.

And you’re pulling Charr out of thin air as well. It doesn’t make logical sense that the Charr have so many numbers either. Heck even if you go by the EotN storyline, they were constantly under attack by the Vanguard, Adelbern, and even some Norn, lost their second set of leaders and gods(Destroyers), go through a civil war, in the middle of another war, mind you, and yet still manage to roflstomp Ascalon into oblivion.

And me saying Ascalon could have had more soldiers down south somewhere is crazy…

Compare the statements.

A: Charr may bring in a fresh, second force from their homelands in the north.
B: Adelbern will bring up reserve ascalon army units from the south end of the country that have spent two years doing nothing (Or in your example, two entire years dealing with ‘stragglers’).

A, IMO, can make sense. It’s like America sending a fresh wave of soldiers oversea to reinforce fighting deployments.
B, IMO, doesn’t. What reason would he have for keeping sizable numbers of soldiers south, instead of on the front lines where they are desperately needed? We know Ascalon’s armies are weakened. Charr are unknown.

Also, do remember, Pyres revolution didn’t do much of anything until AFTER the foefire, when the Flame Legion imperator died. Ebon Vanguard was skilled, but a distraction. We see them basically get stomped and almost entirely captured at one point when the Charr apparently gave them direct attention. Norn actually left the charr alone, and only stomped the idiot warbands that caused trouble. It’s stated at that point one army, or even an entire legion could easily sweep aside the Norn if the Charr wanted. Ascalon’s army was weakened from prophecies, and may not have recovered. Number wise mainly.

Having soldiers in the south isn’t crazy. Making implications that Adelbern had a fresh army down there that’d turn the tide of war? Not so much.

And nothing in-game held evidence or implications that Ascalon would heal quickly, if at all. What ingame says Ascalon would heal?

What in-game evidence says it wouldn’t?

This will be endless. There is nothing ingame that says Ascalon would heal fully. There is nothing ingame saying Ascalon would never heal. However, in the timeframe of Prophecies things got worst. Would you stick around on the hope and dream that it might heal?

Except that’s not what “officially” happened. Nowhere in EotN or later does it say anything about Ascalon taking back the north. According to GW2, the Charr never lost it.

ANet basically outright ignored Mhenlo’s and Ermenred’s statements.

Again, maybe the charr got pushed out, and Adelbern decided that holding the northern end of Ascalon was never going to work, and thus focused the population south of the wall where it provided a limited amount of safety. Since Ascalon’s army and defenses are EXPLICITLY stated to be weaker.

Konig Des Todes.2086:

Anet only did that S1 summary because there has been a year+ long outcry for something in-game to explain the sudden story jump of killing Zhaitan to going into Dry Top and talking about this ‘Scarlet’ figure not everyone knew. With more new players due to HoT’s advertisements, the outcry became louder.

The summary was intentionally limited, to only give the needed facts for going into S2 and in turn HoT. Thus it doesn’t include non-Scarlet/Mordremoth stuff.

There’s no need for an in-game summary of Season 2, since it’s all permanent content. And since they intend to make Season 1 permanent content in S2’s format, it’s plausible that they’ll remove the S1 summary whenever they get to doing so.

Probably when they figure out how to make it work.

SOME are described as being actual magically animated toys. The wintersday toy minis for example.

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

No, I simply hold a distinction. EOTN, GW beyond, are GW1. They are in that timeframe and era of the setting. They are played from GW1. I count them as GW1 lore because that is what they are. The novels directly about/before GW2, GW2, and living story are all GW2 events and era, therefore, are part of the GW2 lore.

If you really believe that, that is astounding.

Why? Because I don’t choose to cherry-pick against EOTN and GW beyond events when talking about GW1? Fact is, they are canon. That is the path the OWNERS of the game decided to go with. Maybe if you could go prod the main writer of Prophecies and get him to come out and state exactly how he saw the story moving forward before he left…

A: If they are in the Basin, they are part of Ascalon. Are you saying Glint was straight up lying or misinformed when she told us that the armies had withered and weakened since Rurik left?

No, that is true, their forces had weakened in Rurik’s absence. The Charr were weakened to. They both were weakened, killing off the remaining Charr leaders and the Titans are supposed to be seen as the deciding factor in the war. Do you not see that?

As I’ve said. The only implication/statement about the war being finished is from factions, if you brought over a nightfall or proph char. In my completely honest opinion, if it was meant to be the end of the war, they showed that very poorly. It didn’t feel as if the charr conflict was ending or over at the end of titan source.

B: If you had read my post, I never once said GW1 LA had a low population. If it’s the post I think of, I was actually going “Some people complained about the old (GW2 old, not GW1) LA because they couldn’t see it housing a big population.” Which was an actual thing back during the battle of LA. I never said I held that viewpoint.

Ah kitten , keep forgetting that now there’s an old old LA, and a new old LA. :-P

Yeah. Some complained about old GW2 LA housing. I simply agree that the newest LA looks more like a city :P.

I’m saying that you’re simply inferring the Charr had plenty of reserves to use based solely on the fact that their homeland was “off the map.” And I’m saying Ascalon could have had more reserves because there was a lot of Ascalon “off the map.” I.e., if you can say there were more Charr waiting up north to swoop down, I can say there were more Ascalon soldiers in the south who were held up because of dealing with Charr stragglers on their way to Orr. I could literally make up any reason why there would be more down there.

And many of them wouldn’t make sense at all. I’m saying that the charr may have had more people to the north. You are pulling people out of thin air for Ascalon.

The difference is saying “Hey, Charr called home and asked for reinforcements” makes more sense then “Adelbern has reserve units in the south most regions of Ascalon who are 100% fresh and prepared to fight.” So these reserve units and soldiers spent two WHOLE years dealing with “stragglers” that prevented them from being deployed to the wall? Doesn’t make sense. It comes across as going “You can’t have that!” without a valid reason of “Why?”

Why can’t I reason the charr would be able to bring reinforcements south?

One can easily assume that a MAGICAL based destruction will not hold the same results as a natural/normal siege weapon one. And healing takes time. How long would it take to heal to the point of being able to rebuild large farms? Who knows.

That’s fine, as long as you label it an assumption and not an idea supported by in-game evidence or allusions.

And nothing in-game held evidence or implications that Ascalon would heal quickly, if at all. What ingame says Ascalon would heal?

Yeah, that’s the ONLY ingame source saying the conflict is over… at that point. So you can either see it as the conflict ended, and then a NEW charr force moved south, or the war never truly ended and small fighting continued the entire time.

So if Mhenlo was correct, and I see no reason to doubt him, Ascalon actually reconquered the north and then immediately lost it again in the next few years? Is that what you’re going with here?

Or that the Charr armies were pushed back and Ascalon simply held lands south of the wall for security reasons.

And would it be shocking that the weakened Ascalon army would be pushed back if a new, fresh charr army went south?

Because you are either going to kitten and moan about them “RETCONING ASCALON WINNING!”, or accept that maybe Ascalon won for a short while, then a new charr force went south.

Which, amusingly, links back to my whole “Maybe the charr brought reinforcements in.” Looks like it actually has some canon, factual lore backing based of Mhenlo’s statements.

Lostwingman.5034:

Kalavier.1097:

Yes, this is why the Charr and humans were at a stalemate purely because of the Great Northern Wall, and the Charr actively had engagements directly at the base of the wall.

This makes no sense when half of Ascalon had extended beyond the wall…

And it’s noted that cities north of the wall were in more dangerous then below. We also see that Surmia had a fairly hefty wall around the city as well.

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

Was still made by the GW1 team and writers :P.

Lol. Alright. Then GW2 doesn’t exist, it should be called GW1… 250 years later!

No, I simply hold a distinction. EOTN, GW beyond, are GW1. They are in that timeframe and era of the setting. They are played from GW1. I count them as GW1 lore because that is what they are. The novels directly about/before GW2, GW2, and living story are all GW2 events and era, therefore, are part of the GW2 lore.

However, in one direction, we have an unknown homeland that could have far more charr that simply didn’t charge south. In the other, we have a devastated nation that explicitly has had it’s armies weakened. Where would Ascalon reinforcements come from?

From anywhere in and around the entire Ascalon Basin. I saw you write in another post about GW1 LA population being low because you can’t see enough houses anywhere to justify a large pop. That’s not how it works, mate. These games, especially those made in mid-2000’s, didn’t exactly have all the programming resources to realistically depict a legit town. Hell, most games now can’t even do that. You’re supposed to…no, you’re invited to…use your imagination to fill in the blanks based off of in-game information and common sense. GW1 LA probably had a fictional population in the thousands or higher. Extrapolate that to a whole countryside and kingdom with an unknown number of total towns/cities, even one which had hellfire rain down on it, and you get a better picture.

A: If they are in the Basin, they are part of Ascalon. Are you saying Glint was straight up lying or misinformed when she told us that the armies had withered and weakened since Rurik left?
B: If you had read my post, I never once said GW1 LA had a low population. If it’s the post I think of, I was actually going “Some people complained about the old (GW2 old, not GW1) LA because they couldn’t see it housing a big population.” Which was an actual thing back during the battle of LA. I never said I held that viewpoint.

You’re right we have no idea how many Charr are up there in their homelands, mind you. But to say that they can simply keep pouring in reserves, especially after losing one massive army in Orr, and another in Kryta, and a 3rd small one in Ascalon…is giving them nonsensical abilities. If they truly had that many numbers, they wouldn’t have waited so long to attack humans. The human armies were weakened from the constant Guild Wars, not annihilated, yet they can’t have reserves? Saying the Charr have some perma-spawn machine up in the Steppes is as silly as saying the Ascalon Census was an accurate depiction of the post-Searing Ascalonian total population.

Only, we don’t know what happened to the army in Kryta. Just that the leadership was destroyed. Also, I’m saying the charr actually have means to bring in reinforcements. Ascalon has no military allies, and Glint explicitly says the armies are weakened. You think Adelbern would simply hold reserve units back in the south playing cards instead of actively using them to buff what little defenses were left?

Good, we agree! Not all the waterways in Ascalon were tar, by the way. In-game even.

I’d have to find those ingame water spots post-searing. I don’t remember any personally :P.

Of course GW2 says that, it serves their plot. Doesn’t say that in GW1 though, nothing about its “magical” comets sterilizing the land. That’s GW2 talking there.

One can easily assume that a MAGICAL based destruction will not hold the same results as a natural/normal siege weapon one. And healing takes time. How long would it take to heal to the point of being able to rebuild large farms? Who knows.

Lol! Wow, thanks mate. I hadn’t seen that one before. I’ll add that to the list. =D

Yeah, that’s the ONLY ingame source saying the conflict is over… at that point. So you can either see it as the conflict ended, and then a NEW charr force moved south, or the war never truly ended and small fighting continued the entire time.

GoddessOfTheWinds.2937:

Seriously, the face I can dye the outfit with 4 color channel, but can’t for the weapons, really limit my choices of dyes if I want to keep it harmonized.

Yeah, I have a warrior themed as a Seraph but with golden armor, and the Dwayna weapons actually fit that theme perfectly (wings and all). If I could change the blue to red, it’d be awesome for the sword or axe. I may look at maybe grabbing them and simply pretending in my head the colors are different.

Fear not this night is, as I recall, in universe an actual song.

It is sung by the pale tree. If you didn’t know.

CureForLiving.5360:

Well I wanted to say that they don’t have the capacity to overlay images… but then again they’re able to put damage effect and water effects over the screen so hopefully they’d be able to implement something similar to show flashes of images.

Also would be annoying or maybe even dangerous. Depending how they do flashes, seizure warnings?

But having random images flash up on the screen for Sylvari but nobody else would distract from things in the cutscene, like if something spawns a bunch of bad guys in cutscene that charge you, the Sylvari characters might not see that.

Obsidian.1328:

GW beyond may be meant to prepare for GW2, but it was created by the GW1 team. I’m sorry, but since I must load up GW1 to play it, I will consider it part of GW1. To me, saying it’s GW2 is like saying an add-on mission to “Starcraft Brood War” which works to setup or imply things about “Starcraft 2” is “Starcraft 2 canon.”

It’s GW2 in terms of storyline and narration, not in terms of gameplay mechanics. Again, that would be silly.

Was still made by the GW1 team and writers :P.

Again, that phrase falls back on the “In Prophecies, nobody acts as if the war is over/close to over in the final two quests about Ascalon.” Hell, the one line I see ingame says “The charr army is pushed north toward their homeland.” Not routed, utterly defeated, or wiped out. So, that ties back to what I was saying. A second force may have went south (tying into you wanting Ascalon to have won the war) instead of them ‘retconing’ it into the war never ending.

I never said they were wiped out, just that the war was over. A second force? Sure. If you get to surmise more Charr reinforcements, I get to surmise more Ascalon reinforcements. Can’t have it only one way.[/quote]

However, in one direction, we have an unknown homeland that could have far more charr that simply didn’t charge south. In the other, we have a devastated nation that explicitly has had it’s armies weakened. Where would Ascalon reinforcements come from?

The tar isn’t poison, dude. It’s tar because the vegetation died and all the topsoil ran off into the lakes and river. If it was radioactive or poisonous, it would have hurt your health like swamps in Kryta.

One cannot drink tar. I never said it was radioactive or poisonous, just that it is tar.

Agree. Where does it say that it was permanent?

Nowhere. But being a magical devastation, who knows if it’ll heal quickly or slowly. How healed it is in GW2 surprised me really. I went with the “Magical destruction, might not heal.” IIRC, there is somewhere in GW2 that basically says “The events that caused this are going to leave a permanent magical scar/effect on this spot.”

Obsidian.1328:

You mean his dialogue from Bejunkan Pier? Dude…that dialogue is for players who started with Factions and want to get to the Prophecies campaign. It’s bridging narration to introduce a little of what is going on for Proph. The new threat he’s talking about is the Mantle, Mursaat, Titan’s, and the Flameseeker Prophecies in general.

Um, no. I’m talking about the “welcome to Cantha” quest. Mhenlo mentions the Charr have been pushed back more toward their homeland, and he was hoping for some peace before hearing about the plague. Pretty much the only direct ingame source I can find that implies the war is over.

The warmaster in “The titan source.” He merely says “A massive charr gathering.” I’m not talking in general open world, I’m talking about within the missions themselves.

And?

You wouldn’t think it important to note his scouts apparently have discovered what was left of the charr invasion starting to gather into one force? Again, I’m saying the Warmaster’s dialogue really just comes across to me as a “Oh, we found these scary as kitten burning creatures alongside some Charr chieftains who are gathering a warband. You are pretty powerful, surely you can go deal with those creatures and disperse that massive charr gathering.”

Obsidian.1328:

Kalavier.1097:

Because it’s totally reasonable to assume the charr had their entire leadership in Ascalon and not a single charr to the North would try to rally another army to finish the job.

Just like it’s totally reasonable to assume only the in-game explorable part of Ascalon is all there is and not a single Ascalon to the south would try to rally another army to finish the job.

Besides the fact Glint tells us explicitly Ascalon’s armies and defenses are weakened and withered? Either way, having found a line of dialogue from Mhenlo about the conflict, it looks more and more like a renewed Charr offensive post-prophecies timeline instead of a constant 100% war.

Because when you go back to Ascalon, almost all of the NPC’s are still coded to say things as if you just started the game. I don’t know why whatever warmaster you mention there didn’t specify it was the last of the Charr…what a horrible narrative oversight. -__-

The warmaster in “The titan source.” He merely says “A massive charr gathering.” I’m not talking in general open world, I’m talking about within the missions themselves.

“Old Ascalon Spirit in Nolani Academy:

“The story of our destruction was foretold long ago. Our names might as well have been written in the Flameseeker Prophecies.” "

And the Nolani spirit is talking about his fellow soldiers that were on the Wall when the Searing rained down on them, he wasn’t talking about the whole kindgom.

That line can be inferred a few different ways really.

Obsidian.1328:

Not assumed by me, assumed by the writer and the narrative. He has them both back to normal by the time of Factions. Both the Searing carnage and the Mantle in Kryta are there to serve the plot of the story, they aren’t meant as indicators of both kingdoms future.

I’ve found a SINGLE line of dialogue that says that. And it doesn’t say Ascalon is back to normal. I don’t even see how you could say “Ascalon is back to normal” after the searing level event (at least, instantly).

The “why” is because they never had time to come back to it. GW1 wasn’t like GW2, they released another stand-alone campaign in 1 year. That’s not Ascalon’s Chosen, that’s Devona and Co. Some of them have small remarks about missing home, but you have to remember Devona and Co. are taking the same steps the PC is…like you, they left with Rurik and the refugees. And they left for Cantha with you to join that cause. They are kind of like the PC’s posse.

Devona is a member of Ascalon’s Chosen, and I recall reading in the past that was basically the name of her crew.

Not a single person says Ascalon is safe. Glint says “ADELBERN.” is safe, but that’s explicitly in the context of the TITAN threat, not the charr. As you said, Adelbern disliked Zain because of being Mantle and Krytan, yet Adelbern would trade with the white mantle? This doesn’t make sense at all especially if we are to think that a single person wrote all of this. A group writing it makes more sense because perhaps failure to communicate details across the team.

GW2 didn’t say a thing about the shining blade. Guild wars beyond (which is Guild wars 1, not 2) worked on that part.

It is GW2. Ermenred said Ascalon was safe. Taking the phrase “recovering from the Charr conflict” as anything less than recovering from a war that is over is your problem.[/quote]

GW beyond may be meant to prepare for GW2, but it was created by the GW1 team. I’m sorry, but since I must load up GW1 to play it, I will consider it part of GW1. To me, saying it’s GW2 is like saying an add-on mission to “Starcraft Brood War” which works to setup or imply things about “Starcraft 2” is “Starcraft 2 canon.”

Again, that phrase falls back on the “In Prophecies, nobody acts as if the war is over/close to over in the final two quests about Ascalon.” Hell, the one line I see ingame says “The charr army is pushed north toward their homeland.” Not routed, utterly defeated, or wiped out. So, that ties back to what I was saying. A second force may have went south (tying into you wanting Ascalon to have won the war) instead of them ‘retconing’ it into the war never ending.

Was the Searing radioactive? News to me! It wouldn’t take more than 10 years for land to recover from an artillery shelling. Even one as massive as the Searing.

Yes, because an artillery shelling turns lakes and rivers into solid, thick tar that’s still present two years after the fact.

I say “Like a nuke” because it turned the region INTO A WASTELAND. That is canon fact, you cannot ignore or skirt around it. Ascalon. Was. A. Wasteland.

I wish for weapon dyes/color changing as well. If I could change the blue parts of the dwayna set, it’d fit my warrior nicely (wings + seraph intended look = win).

Vanthian.9267:

I read through quite a bit of this thread (not all of it) but I failed to see any mention of why and how the Charr actually over threw the human kingdoms. Some of you are actually trying to argue the Charr did it through their own strengths when that is a complete lie. The Charr had no hope against the humans by themselves.

Yes, this is why the Charr and humans were at a stalemate purely because of the Great Northern Wall, and the Charr actively had engagements directly at the base of the wall.

Abaddon and the titans were the cause of the fall of Ascalon. The Charr were merely puppets of the previous.

The titans were under direct order from Abaddon to push the Charr against humanity. Without that, the Charr would have been slaughter and pushed back further. It wasn’t the power of the Charr but the power of long forgotten “beings” that killed Ascalon.

Titan magic caused the searing, but other then the searing Cauldren… they provided little to no aid to the charr. So, again, the charr overrunning the armies of Arah quickly is all Charr.

Obsidian.1328:

Yet another Charr horde…sure, why not.

Because it’s totally reasonable to assume the charr had their entire leadership in Ascalon and not a single charr to the North would try to rally another army to finish the job.

Glint says Tyria is revived and Tyria is saved after Hell’s Precipice. And that Tyria isn’t safe until you finish off the Titans, which you do. You’re right that he doesn’t specify the Charr.

Then why assume that the Charr are simply gone, when not a single NPC in Ascalon acts as if the war is almost over. Again, that’s kinda a HUGE thing that you think somebody would TALK about to the player. Like the warmaster going “The Charr chieftains are gathering the bulk of their remaining forces.” instead of “The Charr chieftains are gathering a warband.”

At any rate, the point of Glint is as an arbiter of the Flameseeker Prophecies themselves. It is the driving force of the narrative. It foretold the Searing, the Cataclysm, Rurik’s death, the Mursaat, Khilbron, and even that the Chosen one would be an Ascalonian who would follow Rurik out of Ascalon. But it never alludes to anything about the destruction of Ascalon, only that of Orr.

“The prophecy (as much as is known through the game) predicts the destruction of Ascalon, the death of Prince Rurik, civil war in the Shiverpeak Mountains, an undead force arriving, the finding of the Scepter of Orr, its falling into the hands of the Lich Lord (the Flameseeker referred to in the name), the fall of the Mursaat at the hands of the Chosen, the Lich Lord opening the Door of Komalie, and the subsequent release of the Titans (who are presumably the flame being sought out). Even the eventual downfall of the Flameseeker was foretold in the prophecies, according to Glint, so it is likely that the Lich Lord was not aware of the entire prophecy, especially given his motivation to fulfill them. Glint may even have withheld revealing parts of the prophecy until the end of the Hell’s Precipice mission. "

“Old Ascalon Spirit in Nolani Academy:

“The story of our destruction was foretold long ago. Our names might as well have been written in the Flameseeker Prophecies.” "

<_<.

Rurik’s death was part of the PC’s destiny, not merely a casualty of Adelbern’s pride. You’re right that Adelbern is a minor character in all this. His only job was to set the wheels of the Prophecy in motion by being a general kitten to his son and the PC empathizes and follows Rurik out. The writer was using him as a plot catalyst, Adelbern had to be a kitten.

My point being that once we left Ascalon, it’s revelance to the story disappeared. Not once were the player characters concerned with what was happening back home. Hell, the only time we actually head back is because Glint tells us to kill the Titans.

Obsidian.1328:

He didn’t mess up, he just never had the time or resources to get back to it. The White Mantle were supposed to have destroyed the Shining Blade after our hasty get-away at Sanctum Cay remember? That’s something that is alluded to and assumed, but never outright said, just like the Ascalon surviving the Charr is alluded to and assumed, but never outright said.

Assumed by you. I never once took it as if Ascalon was safe and sound and the charr forever defeated.

Hell, if the mantle is in charge still. Why would they trade with Ascalon after Ascalonians murdered their entire top tier leadership? :P

ANet would have had to have made entirely new “post-Prophecies” maps for the sole purpose of laying to rest hundreds of loose lore threads…are you kidding me? That Jess or ANet never did outright lay to rest some things is the entire reason WiK and EotN can exist in the first place. Sure Jess mentions that Ascalon and Kryta are trading again…because the Flameseeker Prophecies are over, Tyria is safe, and he’s writing Factions now.

Again, point is not them making new maps. Point is nobody mentions the charr-human conflict as being over ingame. I would think that would be something to mention during Last Day dawns/Titan Source. Or hell, having Ascalon’s chosen mention it in factions! Jess Mentions Ascalon are Kryta are trading again, with no explaination to the “WHY?” bit. He explicitly developed Adelbern into a king who hates Krytans above almost all else, yet suddenly Adelbern is making treaties and trading with Kryta?

We know Ascalon is safe because he says so, yet he never mentions who is in charge of Kryta now that the Mursaat are defeated. He left it with the Mantle in charge and the Shining Blade “all but disbanded” according to Evennia. Yet GW2 ANet added the whole story about the Shining Blade coming back from impossible odds with the Ascended helping to defeat waves upon waves of Mantle and Mursaat. Kryta’s sovereign ambiguity was just as much, if not more, up in the air after Proph as was Ascalon’s. Yet you have no issue with how ANet handled that? How they not only wrote Kryta back into pre-Mantle existence, but elevated them to the only human kingdom in GW2? Do you really not think that could have just as easily(if not easier) been done with Ascalon? Or is this all based on a brown map? Seriously dude?

Not a single person says Ascalon is safe. Glint says “ADELBERN.” is safe, but that’s explicitly in the context of the TITAN threat, not the charr. As you said, Adelbern disliked Zain because of being Mantle and Krytan, yet Adelbern would trade with the white mantle? This doesn’t make sense at all especially if we are to think that a single person wrote all of this. A group writing it makes more sense because perhaps failure to communicate details across the team.

GW2 didn’t say a thing about the shining blade. Guild wars beyond (which is Guild wars 1, not 2) worked on that part.

Kryta was safe (ish), had good land, and a working infrastructure. Ascalon was not safe, ruined land and cities, and assumably alongside “ruined land” didn’t have as much infrastructure left intact. I could see Kryta lasting 250 years. Ascalon I could not. Especially under Adelbern’s leadership as presented in prophecies.

It’s not based “On a brown map” It’s based on the fact that Ascalon got hit with the equivalent of a NUKE. Explicitly (in manual and IN THE GAME, FROM MAJOR NPCS) was stated to be a wasteland. The fact Ascalon has healed as much as it has by GW2 was surprising to me, being 100% honest. I did not expect it to be that healthy again.

Yes, I see Kryta making the 250 year haul. Ascalon, I could not.

Shiren.9532:

Kalavier.1097:

Kiel was openly pushing for more defenses. Gnashblade was just spouting BS to try to make himself look good and the council look bad during/after the battle. He may have warned them in some manner, but I doubt he pushed as heavily as he says he did.

Evon predicted Scarlet’s attack long before it actually happened, as early as the Fractured release (November 2013).
Assuming real time was the same as Tyria time at that point, that’s almost two full months before the Escape from Lion’s Arch release (Feburary 2014).

It’s been shown that “real time” and “In lore time” don’t quite match up, even with the changes Anet did. (see battle of LA timeline issues :P). Still, Kiel didn’t spend long in the mists from what I recall, and the lionguard in the forest were hunting an active Aetherblade basecamp.

Yeah, he said that. but that’s less of a “It will happen and I know it, everybody is being dumb.” and more of a “Who knows what Scarlet will do.” Still, He was blocked by politics as was Kiel.

During and after the attack on Lion’s Arch the writing was very heavy handed (imo) as portraying Evon as a villain and a sore loser, attempting to scapegoat Kiel and Magnus out of spit for losing the election, but prior to that his short story showed him willing to work in the interests of Lion’s Arch in a way which aligned with his own, and predicting an attack from Scarlet that the Lionguard was not prepared for.

Before that point he was willing to work with LA. During and after the battle Evon tried saving his own kitten and his own goods. Then he openly mocked and tried turning the public against the council. At that point, LA had little to offer him after all :P.

Kalavier.1097:

Um, Kiel does not lead the lionguard. Magnus does.

In name. Like the Commodore, Magnus seems to operate in Kiel’s shadow. She’s the most prominent Lionguard in the story and even when the player goes to LA to warn of the impending attack, Kiel is the one contacted (including references to any defences the Lionguard set up), not Magnus. During the attack itself, Magnus is taken out of the story very early on, leaving Kiel to be the one to board the Breachmaker and rally the Lionguard. Magnus has the title, Kiel has the prominence.

Yet we see that Kiel directly talks to Magnus in regards of city safety after the rebuild (asking about dock inspectors). Before Magnus was focused on trying to make the city secure (before rebuild, post battle). IMO, Kiel deals more in the politics area, and Magnus the security/military. I’d say we went to Kiel for the purpose of “We’ve dealt with her a lot more, and she knows us better then Magnus does, and thus is more likely to heed our warnings.”

I think it’s clear that power or money doesn’t simply buy a Captain’s Council seat, otherwise Evon would have had one long ago. It’s the primary trading company used across all of Tyria and it’s portrayed as the largest in Lion’s Arch, the trading hub of Tyria. Evon clearly wants a seat yet he doesn’t have one. Evon was the primary arms supplier for the fight for Lion’s Arch and the Consortium are being portrayed as one the major players in the rebuilding of Lion’s Arch, neither of them are represented on the Captain’s Council.

Don’t expect to see Gnashblade on the council anytime soon given how he openly bashed them during the battle of LA. Evon was FORCED to be one of the arms suppliers, and if they didn’t imply threats (or actually threaten him, depending on how you take it), he would have left the lionguard to rot.

Aaron Ansari.1604:

Shiren.9532:

Honestly, the Captain’s Council would have been thrown out in the real world.

In a real world democracy, yes, but LA isn’t a democracy. The Council isn’t accountable to the citizens. Besides, the very fact that it does consist of the rich and influential means throwing them out is the last thing you want to do during reconstruction. You can’t pin them with the blame and strip them of their status, and then expect them to foot the community’s bill.

^ Partly this. Hell, IIRC, the vote for Kiel/Gnashblade was kinda an oddball for a new captain getting put in.

Add in the lionguard command structure entirely survived (Magnus lived and mostly came out of the battle untouched in the end), I don’t see them being cool with the council getting kicked out either.

Shiren.9532:

Honestly, the Captain’s Council would have been thrown out in the real world. They were completely unprepared for the attack despite the warning signs being there months in advance (and a general need to defend a city) but they were literally directly warned by a Pact Commander that an attack was imminent and almost nothing was done. Evon Gnashblade warned of the attack long before it actually took place and warned the Lionguard was not prepared to deal with it. The fact that the citizens just accepted the Captain’s Council’s failure and didn’t replace them with the reconstruction (or at least protest their willful ignorance) is annoying.

Kiel was openly pushing for more defenses. Gnashblade was just spouting BS to try to make himself look good and the council look bad during/after the battle. He may have warned them in some manner, but I doubt he pushed as heavily as he says he did.

Which is such a disappointment. Not even 100 years ago Lion’s Arch was a city rebuilt by pirates, stealing from the Krytan king and fighting for independence. It was made up of outcasts from all different races and especially pirates. Somehow in 100 years the city has become a light version of Divinity’s Reach, with a white knight human leading the Lionguard and speaking for the Captain’s Council (despite being the newest member, holding a senior position elsewhere and not being the Commodore) and architecture that looks like a district of DR and not actually a city that represents all races.

Um, Kiel does not lead the lionguard. Magnus does.

It’s so strange seeing a Captain’s Council member talk about pirates like that when Lion’s Arch was rebuilt on the hard work of pirates. It’s something I think was lost when the story shifted over to Kiel and the city was redesigned, the current city lost so much of it’s pirate identity, looking more like Seaworld than a pirate city.

The Lionguards I recall from Sea of Sorrows were a bit like Kiel – interested in maintaining law and order in the city, but they were portrayed as one facet of the city rather than the main point of contact for all things Lion’s Arch.

Because LA has evolved and you think a city that openly supports and does piracy would last long? It’d become the target of other nations to stomp out to make trading safer. To survive and prosper, they had to become more ‘legit’ and less “Hey, I like your gold. I’m taking it now and killing you.”

Obsidian, I’ll read and reply to your post in a bit, but while at work I was thinking. Now I assume you’d be against this, but I’ll say it anyway.

Ever think that MAYBE, At end of Titan Source, the Charr were defeated (not wiped out) and went back north. So Ascalon had peace for a few years… then a NEW charr force charged south again?

Also, again, they never say that Tyria or Ascalon is safe entirely. Just that the Titan threat is dealt with. The literal only thing Glint says is that the Titan’s don’t threaten Tyria anymore. That does not mean the Charr are dealt with.

If a man spent his entire life hating say, germans… then at a very dark/low spot in his life, sounded remorseful in general, would you assume that he’s suddenly perfectly fine and okay with germans? I wouldn’t. Besides the fact that he’s had no contact with the Krytans at all, so nothing could change his mind about them in general (like going “Oh, these guys aren’t so bad… maybe Krytans in general aren’t as evil as I viewed them…”) Honestly, with how LITTLE Adelbern was relevant to the story of Prophecies, there is no arc to show him getting better. Or anything to show that wasn’t merely a tired, one time thing where his common sense won through against anything else. Hell, still, if that one guy wrote 100% of Prophecies, and wrote that manual story for factions, he messed up. You know, the whole “Adelbern openly making treaties with Kryta.” and “Players destroyed the white mantle leadership entirely, leaving nobody to make a treaty with.” :P

IMO, Rurik leaving was partly because he saw not much hope then for Ascalon due to the number of Charr, but because his father refused to see the situation for how dire it actually was (and refused to accept help). The fact Stormcaller seemed to have not a huge impact also doesn’t help perhaps. Sure, it can summon a storm, but it’s not a mobile weapon.

Also, the Titan Source does not say that it is the bulk of the charr army. It merely says “This massive charr gathering.” Again, at the end, the line is merely “The titans are dealt with.” not the Charr, the titans.

Thank you for coming. I have sent scouts out past the Flame Temple Corridor into Dragon’s Gullet. Charr chieftains have been worshiping a number of burning godlike creatures and are rallying a Charr warband. My scouts are unsettled by the appearance of these creatures alone. I trust that you have confronted worse on your travels and that you are worthy enough to purge the region of this massive Charr gathering."

Not even all of Ascalon, but merely that one region of it. I see nothing that says the majority of the Charr armies have been defeated at that point. Nothing even says that the Last Day Dawns is a huge charr army. Just a group running alongside the titan lords (who are the real focus of the mission).

Lemme put it this way. I think something as MAJOR as the Charr offensive being completely broken and pushed back, and Ascalon being safe from them and the war being over, would be something explicitly mentioned ingame. I’d think those warmasters, Adelbern, or civilians(or even Glint) would mention it as such. But nobody seems to treat it as if the war is done or even close to finishing. Glint merely goes “Adelbern is safe.”(after she sent you explicitly to guard him from the TITANS) and “The Titans are dealt with.”

SnowHawk.3615:

Well… I don’t see it impossible – I mean nothing is necessarily IMPOSSIBLE. If you had to look at it from a lore perspective-
You have to realize many humans would judge you very harshly same goes for Charr due to the Searing of Ascalon 200 years or so before gw2- Look at Rytlock and Logan, and then look at Gwen and Pyre from Gw1 it’s the same relationship but it’s more circumstantial in gw1.

Actually, Rytlock and Logan got along very well. What caused the split was Logan going to defend Jennah vs staying and helping them at Glint’s Lair. They were friends enough before that point, that Rytlock gave Logan a blood legion emblem and Logan gave him something personal as well. I forget WHAT Logan gave him, but it was something special.
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Well, either way. The dark area underneath the destroyed airships has vines actively moving around in scary ways. o_o.